Mexico 2025

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast - Episode: Mexico 2025 Release Date: February 5, 2025 | Host/Authors: Brian, RJ, Megan

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Overview

In this engaging episode of the Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod), hosts Brian, RJ, and Megan delve deep into Phish's Mexico 2025 tour. They provide comprehensive analyses of each show, discuss upcoming events, share insights on setlists, and explore fan interactions. The conversation is enriched with notable quotes and timestamps, offering both seasoned Phish enthusiasts and newcomers a thorough understanding of the band's current trajectory.

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Mexico 2025 Tour Recap

The hosts begin by reflecting on Phish's performance during the Mexico 2025 tour. They commend the band's tightness and the leadership displayed by Mike during the shows.

• Megan highlights the band's ability to stretch out jams without deviating from the song's essence:
  "I think a lot of it's going to hold up on Relisten because we have about, I'd say four or five to six, like, really good jams." [12:14]

• Brian praises the consistency and musical evolution since the mid-90s:
  "I don't think we've had this kind of consistent greatness since the mid-90s, to be honest." [13:02]

• RJ echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the high energy and seamless flow of the performances:
  "There wasn't really any down time in these shows. Like, every set was pretty high energy and had some highlights." [14:33]

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Upcoming Reprise Shows and Events

The discussion transitions to the announcement of new Reprise shows and the potential involvement of band members in upcoming events.

• RJ announces new Reprise dates in Rhode Island, Worcester, Saratoga, and New Hope, with additional shows in April across Connecticut and Northampton:
  "We just announced three new shows. April 17th at Nectar's, April 18th at Broadbrook, Connecticut, and then April 19th back at the Iron Horse in Northampton." [04:15]

• There's also a mention of a possible collaboration with a band member leading up to these shows, contingent on Brian's approval:
  "We'll probably do something maybe with one of the band members leading up to those shows, if Brian approves." [04:15]

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Mount Rushmore Series & Bathtub Gin Voting

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the Mount Rushmore series and the community-driven voting on favorite versions of Phish's "Bathtub Gin."

• Brian outlines the Mount Rushmore series slated for the week of March 3rd, emphasizing the importance of fan votes:
  "It'll be the week of March 3rd, so keep an eye out. We need to do some scheduling." [06:23]

• RJ encourages listeners to vote for their top four versions of "Bathtub Gin" to shape the series:
  "People, we need more. We want to. We need to get your input so we can make fun of the things that you guys vote for." [06:42]

• Megan shares her enthusiasm for the Mount Rushmore series and her commitment to attending upcoming shows:
  "I love a great Reprise show, and I'm definitely going to be in the Brooklyn bowl show, and I'm going to try to make it up to Northampton because that venue is awesome." [05:15]

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Detailed Analysis of Specific Songs and Jams

The hosts provide in-depth critiques of several Phish songs performed during the Mexico 2025 tour, focusing on their execution, improvisational elements, and overall impact.

"Plasma"

• RJ expresses dissatisfaction with how "Plasma" was played as a standalone song rather than being part of a seamless segue:
  "I think it should always be part of some kind of segue transition. It's just such a cool song." [26:46]

• Brian discusses the band's ongoing experimentation with "Plasma" and its placement within setlists:
  "I'm trying to figure out, doing a lot of work right now. I'm getting prepped for our FISH albums draft." [07:56]

"Piper"

• Megan praises "Piper" for its extended jam sections and seamless transitions:
  "This is my favorite jam of the run." [41:10]

• Brian highlights the evolution of "Piper" over the years and its current execution:
  "It's just a perfect boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Just done. Get out. Awesome." [75:47]

"20 Years Later"

• RJ appreciates the melodic build and organic progression of "20 Years Later":
  "It's a good example of the combo of Tom and Scott Herman." [73:12]

• Brian emphasizes the song's lyrical depth and the band's ability to maintain engagement:
  "The melody within the chorus is one of the more heart-wrenching ones that we've heard from Fish." [70:00]

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Band Members' Performances and Musicianship

The hosts commend individual band members for their performances and contributions to the band's evolving sound.

• Mike Gordon receives accolades for his prominent role and innovative bass lines:
  "Mike's doing incredible. Just MVP for me, showing so much leadership." [12:14]
  "Mike did it. Mike is the reason." [38:22]

• Paige is lauded for adding texture and depth with his synth contributions:
  "Paige just absolutely brings so much texture and layer to them." [22:16]

• Trey Anastasio is praised for his setlisting and creative transitions:
  "Trey really played some, like, really great sets of the shows. Just calling some really good songs." [15:53]

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Future Plans and Upcoming Episodes

Looking ahead, the hosts discuss their plans for future podcast episodes, including an upcoming album draft.

• Brian announces the next episode will focus on a draft of Phish's studio albums:
  "Next week we are doing the FISH studio album draft." [79:28]

• Megan and RJ express excitement and readiness to engage with the new content:
  "Let's go." [81:05]
  "We have our work cut out for us." [80:39]

• Mount Rushmore Voting Reminder:
  "Remember to vote osirispod.com/rushmore Vote on your Tell us your top four versions of Bathtub Gin." [80:33]

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts expressing optimism for Phish's current era, commending the band's consistent performance quality, and anticipating future musical developments. They encourage listeners to participate in the Mount Rushmore voting and stay tuned for upcoming detailed analyses and album drafts.

• Megan concludes with enthusiasm for the band's future:
  "It's a great run. What a start to the year. Really promising for this year." [77:02]

• Brian reflects on the band's evolution and upcoming content:
  "This is why we're just kind of in that realm... It's incredible." [56:32]

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Notable Quotes

• "I think a lot of it's going to hold up on Relisten because we have about, I'd say four or five to six, like, really good jams." — Megan [12:14]

• "I don't think we've had this kind of consistent greatness since the mid-90s, to be honest." — Brian [13:02]

• "There wasn't really any down time in these shows. Like, every set was pretty high energy and had some highlights." — RJ [14:33]

• "Mike's doing incredible. Just MVP for me, showing so much leadership." — Megan [12:14]

• "We're in that type of excellent, perfect set territory. That's how you open a set." — Brian [75:47]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of HFPod offers a thorough and passionate examination of Phish's Mexico 2025 tour, showcasing the hosts' deep knowledge and appreciation for the band's artistry. Through detailed song analyses, discussions on setlists, and reflections on band dynamics, Brian, RJ, and Megan provide listeners with valuable insights and foster a stronger connection within the Phish fan community.

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Transcript

[Megan]

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[Brian]

Osiris.

[RJ]

Hey, everybody. We are live here at HFPOD headquarters distributed throughout the throughout the country. We got a lot of headquarters. Brian's. Brian's at the Rocky Mountain headquarters. Brian, how's it going out there?

[Brian]

61 degrees and sunny. Beautiful.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Megan]

Wow.

[Brian]

We've re entered the best part of the year in Denver. We had it. It was pretty cold for a while. Really cold. A lot of snow. Probably gonna get some more snow. You know, I'm not gonna count it out. I'll always happens. But it's really nice out here right now. Tell you what, how about you guys?

[RJ]

Megan. Megan's in this at the city headquarters. You don't even have to say what city it is. It's just the city.

[Megan]

The city. That's what we call it here. The city. Yeah, things are okay in the city. You know, we're. This is the heartland of the resistance. So we're okay. We're doing the best we can.

[RJ]

Good. I'm proud of you guys. Well, do you want to say anything about the weather, Megan?

[Megan]

It's still pretty cold here, but I feel good about the fact that we had a proper winter here. It was Confusing when it was really warm here, when it was supposed to be cold. So it's been a cold, snowy winter, and I'll take that. I like. Yeah, I'll be happy when it's over, but it's okay. Yeah, I think.

[RJ]

I think cold's great. I don't know why everyone has such a problem with it. You know, I think.

[Megan]

I mean, it's not my favorite, but I like the seasons. I like the seasons to change. I'd like more sunshine, but she moved to Colorado.

[RJ]

Seasons pretty signal.

[Megan]

I know. I really should.

[RJ]

Okay, there's a couple things I got to tell you guys about. First of all, this is a. It's a. This is a show about Fish. It's unofficially a show also about Goose. And we. I want to. I think we all want to send our regards out to Jeff from Goose, who just put out a statement that he's stepping back from the road. But if he lets. If you're listening, Jeff, probably listening. I mean, everyone listens. But when. When you listen, Jeff, know that we're all thinking about you. Crazy Goose goes back on tour tomorrow, Right?

[Megan]

Wow.

[Brian]

Tour starts tomorrow. Yeah. We'll be interesting to see how everything sounds and what the band is like, but. Yeah, absolutely. Heart, heartfelt thoughts for Jeff. That has got to be a hard message to send out and a hard decision to make and can't be taken lightly. So. Thoughts. Thoughts there.

[Megan]

Yeah. And it's nice to see people taking care of themselves. That's important, as Chapel Rowan pointed out.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

This week.

[RJ]

Yeah, it's true. Okay, what else we got? There are new Reprise shows as of yesterday, guys. I know, I know. Everyone's. Everyone knows probably, maybe, hopefully. But we got. We got a February 27th show in Rhode Island. We got the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th. That's in Worcester, Saratoga, New York, and then New Hope. And we just announced three new shows. April 17th at Nectar's, April 18th at Broadbrook, Connecticut, and then April 19th back at the Iron Horse in Northampton. So a bunch of new shows. We'll probably do something maybe with one of the band members leading up to those shows, if Brian approves.

[Megan]

Oh, we should. That'd be awesome.

[Brian]

It's a great call. Rj. We got. Well, I'm just looking at the HF POD schedule right now. We got one more roundtable before we launch our series. So I think that that's what we should do is bring on someone from Reprise and talk through Reprise stuff.

[Megan]

I don't get a vote on this. It's just if Brian says It's okay.

[Brian]

What do you think, Meg? Downvote.

[Megan]

I love an idea. I think it's a great idea. You know, I love Reprise. I'm a huge Reprise fan, and I'm definitely going to be in the Brooklyn bowl show, and I'm going to try to make it up to Northampton because that venue is awesome.

[RJ]

It is. You. You should have been there last time.

[Megan]

I have to do this thing called work. I don't know. It's kind of weird, but, yeah, maybe I can be there this time. We'll see. Hopefully.

[RJ]

I did. Also, I just got a text from my friend Karina Reagan, who's playing her first, her biggest show yet on May 10th at Webster hall in New York. Megan, we should talk about that. We should probably go to that.

[Megan]

Yeah, we should go. Let's do it. That'd be fun.

[RJ]

I think tickets are on sale now, so we're gonna. We should go. I think I'm gonna go. Okay.

[Megan]

That'd be fun. Hometown show for Karina.

[RJ]

Hometown. Hometown show. Okay, so we. We announced our Mount Rushmore series last week, and believe it or not, we already have some votes in. So, you know, if you. If you want your vote to count. Brian, do we have a. Do we have an official date for our. For our bathtub Jin Rushmore episode?

[Brian]

Yeah, we don't have a date. It'll be the week of March 3rd, so keep an eye out. We need to do some scheduling, but it'll be. It'll be four weeks from today. We'll be. We'll be starting it out.

[RJ]

It looks like we have about 100 votes so far for. For the people's top four bathtub gins.

[Megan]

No way. That's amazing.

[RJ]

Yeah, but, people, we need more. We want to. We need to get your input so we can make fun of the things that you guys vote for. So make sure you go to osirispod.com rushmore and vote for your four. Vote. Not vote, but send in your. Your top four versions of Bathtub gen. We do need some repris in Colorado, so that's something Brian's going to have to figure out for us. Right, Brian?

[Brian]

I've got a backyard. Nice little patio we can set up. I've got a couple extension cords I can provide.

[Megan]

No, but we have a nice backyard. That'd be killer.

[Brian]

I will. I will get out the FL top. I will cook up some smash burgers for everyone, play all night, do a Cypress gig in my backyard, and I'll cook hash browns and eggs for everyone while they're Doing it? No, but we should definitely talk about that, rj, because I don't know if you're aware of this, but the city of Denver, there's a lot of jam band fans out here. We don't totally know what's going to be happening this summer with Fish. There's lots of rumors flying around. Where are they going to play, when are they going to play? Wherever it happens, whenever it happens. It might be nice to slide in a little bit of a reprise before or after the gig.

[Megan]

I'm just going to say that's a good idea.

[RJ]

Megan, what else do you have? Do you have any news for us?

[Megan]

Well, thinking of bathtub gin, I do have a little bit of news for you. I got to sit down this week with Mike Horn for Seawind of Battery for a new moment with Meg. It's been a little bit of time. You know, you guys kept me so busy with HFPOD last year that I had to take a little bit of a break from that show to just kind of get my head above water. But I'm back and I recorded with Mike. I went to his rehearsal space out in Greenpoint this week. We had an awesome conversation and he mentioned the Ventura, Jen in our conversation. Just gonna let you know. He did. We had a great conversation though, and I'm really excited to put that out. So that'll be out soon. That's my.

[Brian]

It's a very nice bathtub, Jen.

[Megan]

It's a pretty good one.

[Brian]

I will say. I don't want to give anything away, but that is on the large list.

[RJ]

Yes, it's on the large list. Yeah, the way that we.

[Brian]

Had the large. So there's the jam chart, which includes like 75 eight minute versions because Trey played a different riff four and a half minutes into the song. But then there's the large list, which are like, hey, these are the versions everyone needs to hear, which I'm sure we'll be publishing at some point. But then we are whittling that down to the four. The four core versions. Your Washington, your Jefferson, your Lincoln, your Roosevelt. There's a lot to consider if we're going to think about it in that sort of rubric. And so I'm trying to figure out, doing a lot of work right now. I'm getting prepped for our FISH albums draft, which is next week. Next week we're going to be doing that, listening to every Fish studio album in a row and making diligent notes about where they should be selected. And then once that finishes, I'm Diving into bathtub gin to figure out our four core versions. Just a lot of stuff happening right now over here in H.F. podland. A lot of work. I think that we convinced ourselves we were doing less work in 2025 with this project. And as I'm creating these large lists of jams we each need to listen to as we build out our top four for. I'm realizing it's basically gonna be the exact same amount of music as I would have listened to leading up to a Top Tours episode. It's just.

[Megan]

No, don't tell me that, Brian. Don't. Don't tell me that.

[Brian]

It's a. It's a lot.

[Megan]

It is.

[Brian]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Megan]

Oh, no.

[Brian]

You should take a look at the spreadsheet. It's. I've filled out our first seven episodes, so.

[Megan]

Oh, God. I only looked at the Bathtub Gin one. Now I'm nervous. Okay, well, I did it last year. I can do it again this year.

[RJ]

It's going to be fun. Everything's going to be fine, everybody.

[Megan]

It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Can I tell you guys a story about the Venturigen? Just at a perfect moment being played? I think you guys will appreciate this. It was after the Goose cap shows, and we all went to this bar. That's a very fun bar. And the whole place was just packed with Goose fans. And I have to give him credit. Young Rhinestorm went and played the Ventura Djinn on the jukebox and it crushed. It was just an unbelievable moment. Everybody was so happy, and it was just like the perfect moment. So good job, Brian.

[Brian]

I wasn't aware he knew of fish music before 2018, so that's impressive.

[Megan]

Yeah, me too.

[Brian]

That's a great segue, though, because we should announce, if we haven't already, that not next week, but the week after the week of 2:17 on actually February 17th, which is President's Day, which you guys have off. But me working in a public institution here in the state of Colorado, I don't get it off. I still got to work. We are going to have Ryan Storm on to talk about Mexico 2019 for two reasons was a really good run. And also so that he can stop assaulting me and asking me to have him on to talk about Mexico 2019.

[Megan]

Finally you can get rid of that text thread.

[RJ]

Those are good reasons. Okay, so we are here to talk about Mexico 2025, based on my understanding. Megan, what is the. What's your story? What's your headline? For this, this run, I thought this.

[Megan]

Was a really strong Mexico, you know, the eighth time they're playing there. I thought the band really benefited from the kind of earlier dates closer to msg, they sounded so tight. I think Mike continues to be incredible. Just MVP for me, showing so much leadership. I think that they did a lot of stretching out and jamming within the bounds of the song. So we had a lot of like 12, 13 minute jams. And then we had some really great flow, some great set list choices, a fair amount of repeats from msg, but also some other stuff thrown in there. And I think a lot of it's going to hold up on Relisten because we have about, I'd say four or five to six, like, really good jams.

[RJ]

Brian, what about you?

[Brian]

I mean, I think that that's it. I think that headline, the bar is almost too high now. It's something I've been thinking about a lot since this run ended. If you go back to New year's Eve Run 2022 from there to now, we're in a pretty unprecedented period in Fish history. I don't think we've had this kind of consistent greatness since the mid-90s, to be honest. Even when things would peak in 3.0, they would kind of dip down for a tour or two as the band kept figuring things out. I think now we're at a point where it's just like they play music and it's awesome. And so there's a lot about, like, the nuances within there. And I think, you know, to your point, Meg, like, musically minimalistic groove jamming is. Is kind of what I'm hearing a ton of right now. It's. It's a little bit different. If you think about these, like, big expansionary jams that happened in late 23, early 24. It seems like they're trying to find this, like, connective tissue within a groove and really hang on that and really build on that. And a lot of the jams from this run were less about, like, how far astray from the song can we go, but more, can we just like, make slightly different music and explore that within the theme of the song? You almost got that immediately with sand on Night one, and then it built from there. So just excited to dive into that. What did you think, rj? What's your big headline?

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I think a continuation of 2024, you know, like, really just. There's so, like, just that sand, you know, coming out of the gate, like, so tight. Listening was great. You know, there. It just like, it just hit. It hit the ground running. There wasn't really. I mean, there were, like, things that I would quibble with, but there wasn't like, really any down time in these shows. Like, every set was pretty high energy and had some. Had some highlights, you know, even like the moma dance and. And the sand and like, some things that I don't know that, like, didn't. That wouldn't necessarily catch my attention. Caught my attention. Um, we'll talk about some of the other ones, like, in a bunch of second sets. But yeah, I mean, I think you're right, what you said, Brian. They're just like. I mean, I guess maybe that's. Can we just say that. That they're just like, awesome. It's awesome and fun and that's. That's like the main thing.

[Megan]

Yeah, they are awesome and fun, but I think they're also like. I think Trey's doing a really good job. Set listing. I thought these were set listed really well. There was only a couple times when he kind of fell back into, like, the same old, same old. But I think he really played some, like, really great sets of the shows. Just calling some really good songs. And the flow, I think, really stood out even more than msg.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan]

Like, more consistently throughout the four shows too. I mean, the first show has some of the best flow of any show they played in a while. Like, there's no Monster Jam, but it has such an incredible flow and it's a really good set list. If there was like one or two monster Jams in that show, it would be like. Like an absolutely perfect show.

[Brian]

Night. One also. I don't know if we want to dive into this.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Quite yet, but, like.

[RJ]

Yeah, I think you should.

[Brian]

I'm. I'm gonna do it then. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. Just really.

[Megan]

Brian, you should do it. Brian, go ahead.

[Brian]

I'm doing it. I'm doing it. All right, so this is something I've been thinking about because we are now in an era where the band is no longer playing 70 minute sets. 75 minute sets. It is now almost a given coming out of sphere that we are getting. You are getting an 85 to 90 minute long set, which is a very different beast than a 70 to 75 minute long set. It may not seem like those 15 minutes make a huge difference, but it really does because that's potentially two more songs or there's potentially one more jam vehicle. And I think that we're seeing the band and Trey, I Don't want to say struggle, but like, what do we do at 65 minutes to end this set? How do we transition at that point in time? And I think that night one is the best example of that. I was talking with friend of the podcast Justin Bruce, also the host of the Vice or Virtue podcast, which is now in Osiris Eggy is kicking off their tour here tonight. Gonna get a lot of Vice virtue content in the next couple weeks. Definitely check that out. But we were talking because to me, this, this second set from night one is the set of the Run. You've got this great trio to open, Set your soul free, Cities and light. And then coming out of light, there's kind of this decision to be made. We're about 35, 40 minutes into the point in time. Where do we go? Do we go ballad? Do we go another jam vehicle? What happens now? And Trey makes this really good call of a classic Mike's groove, which is going to eat up about 25 minutes of the set. Get us towards the latter end of the set. But that does a nice job of like, it's something very familiar. It's something nobody really argues with. Nobody really.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Find me a Fish fan who, if you hear a classic Mike groove at a, at a show, they're pissed off. Like, seriously, find me that person. But then coming out of it, we get, you know, here's a point where a 2001 could go that just kind of like transitions us to the end. Or a possum could go night four about. Yeah, yeah, what, what they ultimately did on night four. But instead here we get this like really cool 13 minutes, like silky, groovy kind of CD version of Twist, which then goes into number line to close it out. And to me, like, that is that decision there of Mike's groove versus ballad song, ballad and then Twist versus, you know, your Santos or your Golgi into Susie Greenberg. That changes the dynamics of the set. It makes it much more fluid and it's much more of a. You press play on set yourself free and you don't get. You don't let up. I think that's something they're still figuring out. I think immediately back to one of the nights at Dick's that has this like great four song run and then you kind of get in the middle of it. I'm going to try to find it here while I'm talking, but you kind of get in the middle of it. A bit of like a lull and then a conclusion to it. Give me one second. To pull this up. Here it is, 8:31. You get loving Cup, Kill, Devil Falls. What's going through your mind? Cross side, Split open and melt. Wow. Holy crap. That is basically a set of Fish a year ago. And then you get Monsters and Karini. Neither of which to me really felt like they fit the larger vibe of the set prior. So it kind of felt like just an add on almost. And the. The alternative here is what we got on night one in Mexico where the band just felt like from set yourself free to the end, it was just total fluidity. I don't know if you guys agree with that or what your thoughts are on that.

[RJ]

I think, I think that night is the only night they really nailed the fourth quarter.

[Brian]

Agree.

[Megan]

Yeah, totally.

[Brian]

We. I mean, yeah, yeah. If you, if you look at the rest of these, they kind of like the next night you get out of Piper Taste, Shade wedge zero Chalk Dust, a six minute shock dust. And then most events aren't planned. And then finally on the last night you get Mercy 2001 more. So yeah, this is the only one where they really kind of nail it. It's a yin and yang there.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, I think that that's. It's funny because after night one, I thought that that's the best you can get for night one. But the more I think about it, it's actually really, really good on its own. Like it doesn't have to just be for night one. It's an awesome show. The first set has eight songs in it, which is perfect. And some stretch out a little bit. There's really connected playing. There's no duds in this first set and I think that, that, you know, even like the K, like the Kill Devil Falls and the Ghost both kind of like stretch out a little bit. You can feel them like kind of warming up a little bit. And then. Yeah, I mean the, the second set perfectly described by you, Brian. And I also think the encore, My Sweet One and a Carini that actually gets a little weird at the end and like kind of like pushes at the boundaries of like. I love when they come out for an encore and actually like fuck around a little bit. And Trey's like teasing Karina in there. Like, I'm just glad they didn't play it because I want to hear that song again. But in live, I want to be there. But that is a great way to end a show. Like leave everybody like wanting more. I think they really nailed, nailed that show. It's probably top to bottom the best show of the run. It Just doesn't have that big jam.

[Brian]

Yeah, I would agree completely. That is my show of the run. If we're like taking a complete package here.

[RJ]

One of the things I noticed in that show and overall is like, Paige is playing and the ghost toward the end, he moves from the synths to the piano toward the end of the jam, and it's just so complimentary and it helps land the jam so well. And in Cities also, his synthesis contributions are just like, they're. They're like slow, but really fit well. Really like a little haunting, but like perfectly in sync with everything else going on. I just. I heard a lot of Paige that I thought was just so complimentary to everything else they were doing all four nights. But the first night, like, they were all just. It was kind of. They were just right back to where they. Where they left off, you know?

[Megan]

Yeah. They were so locked in. And that city's. I know exactly what you're talking about because Trey has like a. Had like a watery effect on his guitar and it sounds so nice, like, paired up with what Paige is doing. And I agree completely. Like, there's so many jams in here, which we'll talk about, but that Paige just absolutely brings so much texture and layer to them. I thought in general, like, I was hearing Mike a lot on this run, but I think all four of them were playing really strong. Like, I think they sound all really, really strong.

[Brian]

It kind of gets to what I was saying earlier. From a minimalistic standpoint, it feels like the most intra band communication that you could imagine. It's not like, like the. The jams from last year in Mexico, which were so expansive, felt like certain band members, like the Choctaws, for example, is Trey and Fishman just kind of like losing their minds. And Mike and Paige feel a little more complimentary towards the back end of that. And so you get this like 10 minute segment that's just like Fish and Trey like egging each other on and that takes up, you know, 10 minutes of. Of jamming. This was like. I feel like a lot of these jams because I just re. Listened to them this morning as we were getting ready for the episode. They're real headphones, listens, and they're kind of the type of jams, if they jam in the style throughout the year, I could see people wanting a little bit more dynamics. But when you actually sit down and give them the time that they deserve, there's so much happening below the surface that there's just a lot to return to because like Fishman's doing something. He sounds incredible. Mike's got this really wild tone on, and he's kind of matching Fishman rhythmically, but then he's also, like, adding to the melody and, like, what you're saying, rj, like, pages flipping back and forth between synths and his baby grand. And, like, Trey's not really playing in a showy way. He's kind of just like, let me find a riff and let us all build upon this slowly. And that. That. That doesn't have the shock value that, like, a lot of what we heard last year, but it has a lot of. You know, it really rewards repeat listening in a really cool way.

[RJ]

All right, so let's see. What. Should we just go through the whole run? Should we just go show by show?

[Brian]

It's your show, man. You decide.

[RJ]

You know, I think I heard a lot of.

[Brian]

We talked about this with rjb.

[RJ]

Yeah, probably should do that, honestly. It might help. Might help our ratings. Everyone thinks it's Meg's show now, you know?

[Brian]

They do.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

We might have to do something about that next week. You know, we'll see.

[RJ]

People need to know. People need to know. It's not just Meg, guys. We're out here still. All right, I. I was. We were texting about this, but I feel like the. These were, like, good groundwork jams. They were. They were laying on. On. On the first night. You know, they were like. They felt like. Like previews a little bit. But, you know, like you said earlier, Meg, it just didn't have, like, the huge jam, but really fun night overall. And the Light had, like, a cool, little. Little playful, fun jam in there. There was a lot of stuff going on. What do you guys think about. So night two? I think Brian, we texted about this, but I don't think they should. I don't think they should be allowed to play Plasma as its own song. Like, just as a standalone song. I think it should always be part of some kind of segue transition. It's just such a cool song, and I feel like it.

[Megan]

Explain this. I want to know what you mean by this.

[RJ]

I think it should. I think it should. I think it works better when it's either, like, something segueing into it because the intro is, like, so vibing and has such, like, a cool, percussive intro. And then, you know, or. Or coming out of something, it just, like, feels like a. And. And also at the end, typically, like, when it's in the middle of, you know, some kind of segue in a second set. You get like, it just kind of melts into the next song. I think just playing it as its own standalone song, like in between Blaze on and Halfway to the Moon. Even though it, like, worked and sounded good. I would like, prefer that in a second set in the middle of like two or three songs that are all kind of flowing together. Just because it's. It's like such a. It's such a memorable riff and such a. It's just like such a great, super vibey.

[Megan]

Yeah, Yeah, I agree. It's a weird, like, second song of the show.

[RJ]

Yeah. But, you know, besides that, I thought I liked. I mean, I love hearing it always.

[Megan]

It's such an awesome song. But this first set, though, definitely there's a lot of songs in the set. You. You had thoughts about that, rj, about the number of songs in this first set, didn't you?

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a lot. It's a, It's a lot. I, I really like, like, I really like Halfway to the Moon. I think it's really.

[Megan]

I love that song. I love that song. I love that song. Yeah, but, you know, 46 days was. Had really like inspired peaking. That was good. I know that's not your favorite, but it was.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

And we just got to inspired playing.

[RJ]

You just got to. We talked about this last last week, right? Like, every song is like, you know, seven minutes long. And that's fine. Yeah, there's. That's like, that's fine. But that's not like. When I look at that, especially in our digital age, you know, where you can see like the song lengths. It's just not something I'm like, excited to listen to only because I just want, like, you know, I just want something that stretches out in a first set. But you got, you know, every. All 26 songs or whatever, somewhere between four and nine minutes and that's, you know, that's fine.

[Megan]

This set lacks flow the most, I think, out of any. Any set from the whole run.

[RJ]

Yeah. More of like a grab. Grab bag style.

[Megan]

Yeah. Like, I don't know, like Funky Bitch, Roger Haley's gym. That doesn't really make sense to me.

[Brian]

This is what we would call over in BTP Land, a barbecue set. It is.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You got friends over who do not think about quarters within a fish show. They don't think about nest versions of various gems. They just think that, like, the fish experience is a fun vibe and you want to listen to music because it's your house, it's your barbecue, but you're Like, I can't put on Fukuoka. These people will lose their mind and be like, what the fuck is going on here? 34 minutes of this. Come on. So you put on a stuff like this because you get fish. They don't get the weirdness. You get varieties of fish. You kind of hear a little bit here and there. The band plays this. This sort of stuff all the time. I'm in full agreement with you guys. This is not like my. This is not the thing I'm seeking out. I saw a first set like this in Austin in 2018, and I always joke, the most interesting thing that happened during that set was Mike Gordon took off his pants because it was very hot, and he revealed he had shorts underneath, but nobody knew that when he was unbuckling and taking his pants off.

[Megan]

Terrifying.

[Brian]

Quite the plasma thing. I just looked up two versions that stuck out to me because I don't think we got into this when we talked about 13:15 a couple weeks ago. But that show has a plasma in it, and that was the fourth plasma the band had ever played. It's quite. It's wild to remember that, like, plasma was a tab thing for a long time. And then I don't know where Trey was, like, maybe fish should play this in, like, October 2014. And it's only been played, like, 40 times since then. But one of my question. My question about it was, like, has plasma ever found its place? And I don't know if it totally has. Like, the two versions that stick out to me are728, 2023, night one of the MSG run, which goes ruby waves into plasma in the middle of the second set. Exactly like RJ's talking about. Segways beautifully has another jam on the end there. And then last summer, chalk does torture into plasma from Deer Creek, which is one of my favorite jams of the year. Is that chalk just torture? Like, please, if you have not listened to that in some time, talk about, like, minimalistic connective tissue fish. Like, oh, my God. But then the plasma, it's like 15 minutes, and it's got this really wild kind of spacey segment in the middle of it, but it's a direct segue from chalk dust into plasma. And I do think, you know, they're trying to figure out still, where does this song go? So maybe let's throw it at the top of the show and see what happens. I think you're absolutely right, rj. The spot for it is, like, midway through the second set, we've fallen into a good groove and we just tumble into Plasma.

[Megan]

Yeah, like, what if they played it after 20 years later in that second set? I mean, the Piper was sick or after.

[Brian]

Well, then we would have lost the Piper. But yeah, after the Piper, that changes the dynamics of the show at that point in time.

[Megan]

Yeah, Piper Plasma. And then maybe they played Nothing Shade. And then just like.

[RJ]

Yeah, well, also I. So can I just say something about.

[Brian]

The title and then the David Bowie that we were asking about.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's it.

[RJ]

We did an episode of Undermine in the. The lead up to the fall 97 throwback. And Scott Gray, who's an awesome person and friend, he. He called me a size queen because we were. I was talking about the length of songs in 6.22.94, which is an awesome name that, that I, that I'm proud of. But if you think about a seven Minute Runaway Gym, which is what they played the other night, versus an 11 minute runaway gym, which they played on 12 29, that's like, those are very different. That those four minutes are really like where things get weird and interesting. Right. So like, I don't know, I just, I feel like it. You get a bad rap if you're like, I don't know, a bunch of six minute songs, but it just doesn't like offer the opportunity to. To expand and explore. I think it's very hard for them to like get to a. Play a song with lyrics and then like do anything in less than 10, 12 minutes.

[Brian]

We've gone through a few periods in Fish history, one of which was that like early to mid 3.0 period where you couldn't really, like, for a variety of reasons, you couldn't really expect the band to jam with regularity. And so a seven Minute Runaway Gym could still be like a significant thing. We're kind of at a point now where like, if they play the 11 minute runaway gym, it means they got really inspired ideas percolated and they expanded on it. Like that Runaway Gym you referenced from 12:29. There's no real need for that to go 20 minutes. It says everything it needs to say. But those additional four minutes show a band that is just like locked in and ready to go. I think that turning it back to this, this second night, the first set really didn't do a ton for me. These are just songs played fairly well, which is like, yeah, the baseline expectation of going and seeing a rock band that you paid $8,000 to see on the beach. The second set is where it's at and it's amazing that we were in a period in fish history where they can play a set like set one. That is fine. Cool. Awesome. Flip another burger. Set two, though, is, like, where the magic connects. And there was a period not so long ago where if you got a set like set one, you were kind of guaranteed that the rest of the show is going to flow that way, too, and they're just not there anymore. Yeah.

[RJ]

Yeah. Well, okay, so let's talk about the second set. What. What do you guys. I don't really like 20 years later. And it's not like. It's not a song that I like, really. I don't know. I might be. Am I in. Am I minority there?

[Megan]

The song is. Is, I think, kind of depressing. I mean, what it's about is depressing to me. But this jam is awesome, and I am super here for this jam. I like. That's why when they play it, I don't mind. Especially when they're feeling good. Like, I think you could tell they were feeling kind of good like this. Everything's right. Mike is just so forward in the mix and just so melodic. Talking to Trey, and you could see them just communicating to each other, and they settle into that, like, really nice, sunny groove. And then you have, like, a little crescendo, and no men's, which is not much, but Trey kind of brings it right back. He kind of, like. He rips for a little bit, then he brings it back, but then so you kind of can tell they're feeling it. And the 20 years later, though, it's so dark and stormy and sludgy, and Trey's just going off, and I was watching in a live stream, and the lights were, like, going, like shutters over and over in, like, vertical rectangles. And it looked awesome. And then they get super quiet and they head into, like, reverb and dissonance, and that's. That's the space. I'm so happy when they're in. So I do like this song because I think it leads to interesting stuff, especially in this example.

[RJ]

Yeah. And I think whatever Mike was doing at the end of Everything's Right Jam is really awesome.

[Megan]

So good.

[RJ]

He was, like, playing, like, kind of fast, right? There's, like, a fast little riff. Yeah. Really cool.

[Megan]

Good. Right now.

[RJ]

Yeah. Yeah. He's. He's like. He's having a moment. He's having a moment.

[Megan]

You know, it's Mike's moment.

[RJ]

He's having his red carpet moment right now. Brian, what do you think? Is he having a moment?

[Brian]

I think he's totally having a moment. I think it's fascinating to think about certain people on this podcast lobbied for Desron Douglas to replace Mike Gordon as the bassist in Fish.

[RJ]

Who did that? Did someone actually do that?

[Megan]

Someone did that.

[Brian]

Someone. No, you didn't. Someone did it. I'm not naming names here.

[Megan]

It wasn't me, was it?

[Brian]

No, I think it was Brian.

[Megan]

Who's Brian?

[Brian]

I just felt for parts of 2021 and 2022 that he just didn't seem very interested in being a Fish anymore.

[RJ]

Yeah, I think.

[Megan]

Yeah. Yeah. He needed new gear.

[Brian]

New clothes.

[Megan]

New gear, new shoes.

[Brian]

Yeah. And I think also, I think we've talked about it here. Like, Trey's synth pedals seem to mess with. What is Mike supposed to do when.

[Megan]

That was kind of playing base?

[Brian]

I mean, it was cool, but it was also probably like, what am I supposed to do now? Cool. I'll just sing boogie on Reggae Woman, whatever you want. Or play the baseline for it that everybody likes. I think Mike, since somewhere around middle of last year, has been, if not the most impressive member of Fish, like, probably the most critical to their jamming. And there were a couple of moments. You're absolutely right. Everything's right. I was re listening to it this morning. There's a point where they're, like, coming back around. And I, like, looked at the timer on the car stereo, and I was like, I thought this was longer than this. And I was. And I saw it had, like, six minutes left. And then Mike comes in, and I.

[Megan]

Was like, he's the one.

[Brian]

Mike did it. Mike is the reason.

[Megan]

He led the way.

[Brian]

He led the way. And he's got a lot of really cool ideas right now. So, yeah, I think Mike is absolutely having a moment VT to boot here. The rig reveal revealed his impetus was that from Alpine. I think that. I think that that's what he's referring to. He did a whole rig reveal, rig rundown during the Alpine run that it was like, wait, you have all those cool sounds and you're not bringing them to the show? What the hell is going on here, bro?

[Megan]

He's got the minkin behind him now. He's like, I'm back, baby.

[Brian]

He's got the minkin behind him now. Have you guys listened to that song recently?

[Megan]

I. Yes, actually, I have.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

That song's great. I haven't listened to that album in a long time. Very long time. And I put it on. I was like, this is your fucking demo. Like, it's awesome. It's so amazing.

[Brian]

Thank you. Taking notes 20 years later. I don't really like this song either. It kind of sounds. It sounds like an upbeat beat version of Monsters, which. I know you guys like Monsters.

[Megan]

It kind of does though.

[Brian]

It has that just like dour, like Broadway type feel. It's like so. Yeah, it's so dramatic and explanatory. Like just like cool. Like it's. Fish has been around for 25 years. Cool. But that said. 10, 29, 13, Mexico, 16, I think that's 116. 16. Very, very underrated version. Very underrated show. 10, 16, 2018 from Albany. 6, 30, 2019. The Hee Haw version. 10 28, 2021. The numbers show there are some outstanding, outstanding versions of 20 years later that if you can get past the song. And I felt like this was in that category, this will be a jam charted version. To your point, Meg, like the lights were doing that really cool thing where it's like the band is just completely in sync and Kuroda's got those waves of LEDs on. And then to have that then go into Piper. Knowing what kind of year Piper had in 2023 where we had some really killer versions. I think St. Louis, Albany had a great version as well. I think that you had kind of this like, you know, moment where a song that has been building through the last year meets with another song that just had a great jam. And then you get this 21 minute version of Piper that just absolutely smokes your face.

[Megan]

This is my favorite jam of the run.

[RJ]

Can I just. Sorry, can I just go back to 20 years later quickly? The thing that I really like about it is that they, they have this kind of like melodic build that's like slow and kind of patient like out of this kind of droning jam. So it's not like a peak, it's like a more of a. It just is like it feels more natural to get to that point than it. Than like we're going to build to like a traditional peak and then peak it and then go into the next thing. So I feel like they were already. It kind of set up the Piper to be like more experimental and more kind of organic. Felt like. I like that.

[Brian]

I like that.

[RJ]

But the, the. The Piper was crazy. The first 20 minute piper since 1975. Brian.

[Brian]

6:19, 2004, but close.

[RJ]

I didn't know that played that year. All right, tell us about that jam that year.

[Megan]

Well, it's funny, it's one of my favorite. I don't know, I think it's kind of battling what's Going through your mind. Because that. I just listen to that jam again and there's something just super organic about that jam. But, yeah, just weird and dark. And the way that Trey is playing with his effect pedal, it's so good. And Fishman is doing this, like, incredible rhythm. Like, I don't even know how he's doing it. It's inhuman. And the synths come in like you were saying, rj. It's perfect. And Trey does like a Norwegian wood tease. And I just read Norwegian Wood by Murakami and I just. I've been listening to that song a lot, thinking about that, and it just has everything. It gets blissy and then it has like the big thrashing ending. It's just one of those, like, journey jams that. That's perfect. I loved it. And it's. It's something that I was shocked to hear, actually, that Piper hadn't gone that long in 20 years. And that blew my mind. Like, I definitely thought it had because it started so many great versions.

[Brian]

But it's weird, it started to fill this role in early 3.0 of being kind of like a relia. I'm just pulling it up right now, like a really reliable 9, 10 minutes. And the longest that we got in 3.0 were around like 15 minutes until 2016 had a 19 minute version, an 18 minute version, and then it kind of dipped back down. In a late 3.0, early 4.0 era of being around 10 or 11 minutes. I saw a great 18 minute version at Chula, but this was, yeah, the first one, Albany had an 18 minute version, but it kind of just like there were some great versions of Piper. I saw a great one at Meriwether Post. Like, it seemed like it was a jolt of. Of adrenaline to a set rather than an experimental jam vehicle. And so you never really didn't want to hear it, but it didn't do this.

[Megan]

Well, that's maybe why it's a little interesting because I always feel like when you hear Piper, I was like, happy about hearing it. So I. Maybe that's. That's why I have the feeling, like, because of what you're saying.

[Brian]

But, yeah, kind of one of those songs. Like, I. I never. I'm never not wanting to hear. You know, it's in like, that category of, like, play to any fisher I go to, and I'm happy. It's a good comment here from Foreman. So 20 years later was a gag for the 20 Minute Piper. I would love if Only Trey.

[Megan]

If only. If Only Trey was. Was so on top of his fish knowledge, it.

[Brian]

We played Sacramento five years ago. No, it was 20. 20 years.

[Megan]

96 is the best year of fish.

[RJ]

Okay, let's. Let's. Yeah, Piper's crazy. Okay, let's go to. Let's go to night three. I did not. What? What?

[Brian]

No, the Harry Hood in the encore, we have to absolutely mention it's a gorgeous, outstanding version. It builds upon the version from 1230, which was an outstanding Harry Hood with some killer riffing for my money. Can't do better than a standalone Harry Hood encore. Come on. Just. Just put it in me. I'm.

[RJ]

It's my favorite song, Brian. Thank you. Thank you. I hope you.

[Brian]

Is it.

[RJ]

Yeah. I hope you get to. Yeah, I hope you guys get to. To do the Mount Rushmore picks for that.

[Brian]

Who do I. Who do we have? Do I.

[RJ]

Probably. Probably.

[Megan]

You can change it. You can change it if you want.

[RJ]

No, I don't care. I'm just saying it's my favorite.

[Megan]

I think we need to have you do it then.

[Brian]

I don't want to do it.

[RJ]

I don't want to do it. I don't want to.

[Brian]

Okay, we're going to. I'll switch it up. Don't worry.

[RJ]

No, don't switch it. Do not.

[Megan]

I will say, if you want to see, I took some really great video from on. From the floor on 12:30 of trey just absolutely killing that hood. So if you want to see that, you can look on my stuff. It's really. It's amazing.

[Brian]

I'd like to see that.

[RJ]

As long as we're going backwards here, can we also talk about the nosedive fourth quarter here after Piper?

[Brian]

Yes.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Well, I mean, the Piper was awesome. And like, that. That, you know, that set had a little bit of, like, it was. It had great energy going, especially like the Everything's right onward at the end of that jam. But then, like, the taste is, like, kind of a disaster shade. Love it. Beautiful wedge. Same character. Zero. Don't need it anymore.

[Megan]

It's just like wedge in the wrong key, too, which is kind of funny.

[RJ]

It was just sort of like 20ish minutes of, like, all right, could have, like, said something else. 20 minute David Bowie could have done.

[Megan]

A Bowie and literally melted people's faces. Why. Why do you choose to just play a bunch of songs? It's like you're a rock band and want to play songs. It's weird.

[Brian]

I would be very curious to know if the band thinks about full sets the way that we do.

[RJ]

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[RJ]

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[Brian]

Of course, provide the greatest breakdowns in current metalcore. Tune in to Get Tucked every Monday out now through Sound Talent Media. I'm sure that they don't, so. I'm sure that they don't, but, like, it's. If anyone near Fish is listening to this, like, it's kind of a thing that we all, like, love. Like there. There are full sets that you can just list out and be like, oh my God, like, if anyone says 4, 3, 98. In like my vicinity, like, my first thought is not that. That was my dad's 42nd birthday. My first thought is roses. Piper, what is it? Antelope. Loving cup. Now I'm showing my noobness. Or loving cup. Antelope. I don't know, Whatever. Yeah, it's loving cup. Antelope. Because the piano is 11 cup.

[RJ]

I was there. I was at that show. It was great.

[Brian]

But like, I'd be very curious to know if the band thinks about because at that point, after Piper play that. Play a David Bowie and walk off at 80 minutes. Whatever. Don't even do like the 25 minute die. You don't have to. That's a perfect boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Just done. Get out. Awesome. Put press, play, walk away. You got your next 80 minutes taken care of. You don't have to think about music. The stress of what am I going to put on next is gone. Don't you want to relieve that stress Tray? But instead we're just like, sure, let's play taste right here. Sure. The ballad, I get shade. Perfect spot for Shine.

[Megan]

Earned it. But.

[Brian]

But then wedge and zero. It's just like we're Just playing songs like, that's like, walk off stage and play longer. Encore. I know that this is nitpicking. I know that you're supposed to just focus on the vibe, man. It's just about being there. But, like, come on.

[RJ]

Like, we.

[Brian]

We. We are. We are. We are talking about a band that has mastered, in the moment, improvisational playing and set listing to a perfect level on many, many occasions. Like, through perfection of the art. Like, true perfection of the art. And when they don't do it, you're just like, did you guys just, like, want to hang out after this? Because, like, I don't know. I mean, was it. Was that really what it was? Or, you know.

[Megan]

Well, I think it goes with what you're saying, what you started saying. Your headline for the show, Brian, is that the bar is so high, they flirt with greatness so fucking much that, like, we know it's right there. Greatness is, like, right there. And so they nail it a lot of the time. Some of these sets are great, are incredible, but if you're going to be that good, then you're going to get criticized when you're not that good. That's just. That's how it is.

[Brian]

It's.

[Megan]

It's their own fault.

[Brian]

And this is not us. Like, we're not. Like, I'm going to listen to this band endlessly, and I'm going to think about this band and listen to way too much of their music and plot out podcast episodes for them. So, like, I'm not walking away. Like, this is. This is. We're just.

[Megan]

Because in this fourth quarter.

[Brian]

No, I know, but, like, yeah, like, persnickety, whatever. Like, this is a podcast. What do you want? Like, this is. It's almost like when you watch a movie and then the ending of the movie. Like, have you guys seen Conclave?

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

Not yet.

[Brian]

Okay.

[RJ]

About to, though.

[Brian]

Terrible ending, the highest brow, the dumbest highbrow movie ever. But it is like, an amazing popcorn watch. And then the ending is just like, what the fuck? Like, yeah, you didn't. You didn't think to insert that in the entire narrative of the story. Like, that just is how you end the movie. It totally changes the feel of the movie. You're currently watching a movie right now. You have 20 minutes left. I'm not going to give away the ending, but you're watching Paris, Texas. That is a perfect movie. And it's very hard to do. I understand. I accept it. It's very hard to write a perfect book where the ending both surprises you and adds to the overall vibe of the movie or of the book. These things are hard. Writing a set list in real time that is perfect is hard. But to your point, Meg, we've seen them do it and they didn't do it this night. And I'd be curious to know why. This is why I asked for Fish press conferences.

[RJ]

Well, to be fair, like this comment says, it's not. It's not new. It is true that this has happened throughout Fish's less. Less commonly maybe, or less frustratingly somehow.

[Megan]

And they are not doing it as often anymore, which is why when they do it, we get to complain about it.

[Brian]

Well, we talked about this a lot. In the top 25 tours, like 94 and 95 would have a lot of shows that had this huge moment. And then the rest of the set was kind of like, okay, yeah, you guys want to play Poor Heart into Hyhu, into Son of a Mule into Harry Hood?

[Megan]

Cool.

[Brian]

You just played Providence Billet, you know.

[RJ]

Now we're going to talk about night three.

[Brian]

Thank you.

[Megan]

Awesome.

[RJ]

Okay, so I did not have to go back and listen to every version of My soul because they played Mama Dance, which was. Which is the easiest call. If there was sports betting for Fish, I would have done it because it's just easy, easy money.

[Brian]

Sports betting and press conferences. Like, what are we doing here? There's money to be made.

[Megan]

We should do this.

[Brian]

There's sponsorship that we could have here. Like, oh, my God, Trey, what were you thinking when you launched? And taste there. 60 minutes into the second set, the.

[RJ]

Moment is actually had a pretty cool gem, I think.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Megan]

Momo's been good lately.

[RJ]

It's been good. It's been a little bit different. Yeah, I guess that goes back to the. The New Year's run where they had that little like funky intro.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's cool.

[RJ]

It's cool to see them.

[Megan]

And another like eight song first set. And yep, with a 20 minute jam. This is perfect. Perfect.

[RJ]

We have. We have. Let's talk about the Wolfman's brother, Brian.

[Brian]

What's up?

[RJ]

You want me to just like think of that jam?

[Megan]

Yeah. Tell us about the Wolfman.

[RJ]

I thought it was a cool groove. It was like a great groove on the back end of it. That was. That was really. That was really fun.

[Brian]

It did two things that I really enjoy, one of which was. And we. I talked about this earlier in the show, but like they were finding grooves within a song that sounded like a unique jam, but still sounded like the song. So like the first 12, 13 minutes. It doesn't really stray from Wolfman's and it doesn't really need to.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Because the groove that they find is so intoxicating and so contagious. And then around like, what is it, like 14 minutes, you hear them coming back to Wolfman's and then Trey just hits these chords. It's kind of like what you guys were talking about with the Everything's Right where one band member says, you know what, actually, let's see what else there is. And that is one of my favorite moments at any point in time with Fish. Like if I'm there, if I'm at home, if I'm listening in, you know, listening to past show, knowing that there's like a. No, we're not finished here is so, so cool. And you get that in this Wolfman's. And it just gets like chunky and kind of aggressive and it's a little dangerous like the jam segment. And it's just, It's a cool moment. Like I thought this first set from night three really worked and was really anchored here by a Wolfman's.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's a perfect example of that, like horizontal groove based jamming. Just really propulsive, really forward moving. And I love the last five minutes. Like you're saying, Brian, it's super powerful. It's really repetitive, hypnotic. It gets into like a really dark groove. It's kind of like they're jamming and when they're grooving like this, it's. They're able to lock into like a little bit of that, you know, 97 swing. But now it has such an edge to it and it just. It has like a. An. Yeah, an edge. Like a crunchier texture to it. I just, I'm into it and I would love to dance to this live. It was great.

[RJ]

So did they. Did every night have a 20 minute jam except the first night?

[Brian]

Yes.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Yeah. That's very cool.

[Brian]

Very cool development that we're just kind of in that realm. I remember we took a bet before summer tour, 20, 23, how many 20 minute jams there would be.

[Megan]

We should do that again.

[Brian]

I'm into it.

[Megan]

I think I won.

[Brian]

It just. It's. I think I won probably, probably just based on track record. I'm sure you were.

[Megan]

If you did, if you didn't predict.

[Brian]

It, I'm sure that your fans voted you the winner regardless.

[Megan]

My fans.

[Brian]

But like it is interesting to remember that we are just removed. I keep saying this. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a broken record. But I just want people to recognize how good of an era of fish we're in. We're just removed from a period where it was like. You probably won't see a 20 minute jam this entire run. Like some people did. Alpine. Alpine and Dicks 2022. And they didn't see a 20 minute jam the entire run. The entire run. And here it is just like, Ho hum. Here's a Wolfman's Brother in the first set.

[RJ]

Oh.

[Brian]

Here's a Fuego in the second set. Oh. Last night we played like. It's just. It just happens. It's incredible.

[Megan]

Yeah. And I think, even though I would say this isn't my favorite show of the run, but this set too is awesome. It's really good. I mean, the Fuego is like the main part of it. But even looking at it, the Oblivion that opens it goes 15 minutes and this is like the 17th performance of it. Really nice groove again. Like pulsing rhythmic waves. And then this rarity. They bust out a rarity, which is always good. Sightless Escape. And it's only the third time played. And it sounded really good. It didn't sound like Rusty at all. I thought they sounded really great. And then a Caspian. Whatever. And then this. Fuego is the fourth longest to date. 23 minutes.

[Brian]

Is it really the fourth longest to date? That's wild.

[Megan]

Which is crazy. Yeah. And Fuego, saving sets everywhere. Saved Mondegris in Night four. Saving this set. Just like. Thank you. Fuego. This is. This jam's amazing. And then I love the Beneath the Sea of Stars too. This is. I listened to this again today.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

It's so beautiful. It's like ethereal and spacey. It's really ambient. It's. It's so vibey. It sounds kind of like Paige's album. Maybe we're the Visitors. It has that vibe to it, like. Which. I actually should listen to that. I haven't listened to that in a while. And it came out this time of year, I think too. It's just. It's such a great. This. I love this jam. It's going to get overlooked because it's like after this huge Fuego. But it's really great.

[RJ]

It's really great. It's really cool. It pushes the boundaries of that. Of that song quite a bit.

[Brian]

Some of us would have wished for a direct segue because that could have been a segment. The vibe of it was. It was a really nice counter to what happened in Fuego. But I'm just looking back at Fuego over the last two years for 1823 from Berkeley. That's a 20 minute version that complements a really nice set in a. That was the kind of the moment where we were realizing we had the Tweezer and Simple the night before. Great run in Seattle. We realized that like spring tour was on a total high. 7, 29, 20, 23, 30 minute version. That is really gorgeous. Really wild stuff. The last 10 minutes are some of my favorite stuff that happened in 2023. 12, 30, 23 is good for 2024. Nearly a 30 minute version from Sphere where Trey's like playing inside of a match. The Mondegreen version that you referenced, the Albany version was an excellent jam played on the second night, which was not a very good show. I think RJ got that in the draft. Maybe Megan, I don't know. But it didn't matter because nobody cared about Albany.

[RJ]

And then this version, true times you win, sometimes you win drafts, and it's great.

[Brian]

This version is just. It's. It's really stunning. To your point, Meg, about like saving sets. The Oblivion doesn't totally get where you would want it to go for like the set opening jam, but it is pretty interesting. Sightless escape, really cool groove for 12 minutes and then. But you know, the show is all about the set, is all about the fuego Sea of Stars. Two very different approaches to jamming. I thought it was the most interesting sea of stars since the Mohegan one. 7, 19 or 7919.

[Megan]

Yes. That was amazing.

[Brian]

Yeah, just like shows that. The first time I heard Sea of Stars, I was like, oh, this is now Fish has their dark star. They've got just like an open ended, ethereal jam vehicle that they can just let ride. And it was cool to hear that again. Just. Just incredible stuff.

[Megan]

How long was this one?

[Brian]

I think it was right around 14 minutes. I don't think it was very long.

[Megan]

Yeah, 14 and a half minutes. Yeah. It gets a lot done in that time.

[Brian]

There's some other good ones. 10, 26, 21 from Santa Barbara is really nice. 4, 19, 23 from Berkeley. Another great Berkeley jam. Has a beautiful tre riff, but this one I think was a little bit. It was great. Okay, so just here giving you guys the underappreciated vibes. I'm. That's what I'm here for.

[RJ]

Totally.

[Brian]

I listen to. I listen to everything. Every.

[RJ]

I like the. I like. I mean, I think we got to just keep revisiting this draft, you know what I mean? Just to make sure that people don't. People don't forget about it.

[Brian]

If you could drop any show.

[Megan]

I know what I mean.

[Brian]

In the 2025 draft, what would you take? And. And how would it beat Meg?

[Megan]

Oh, God.

[RJ]

Were you asking that as a serious question?

[Brian]

No, I was asking that as a rhetorical question. Just keep going with the show.

[RJ]

We're not going to meet. We're not going to beat me. It happened once.

[Megan]

It's over two drafts. You've all. We've all won two. This next one is the deciding factor, and I don't know if you guys can handle it if I win again, so. You couldn't even handle it last time, and I didn't even win. It was because I was all. It was like not losing, and you were freaking out. So just. We'll see. I'm a little nervous for this one.

[RJ]

But the whole thing, to be honest.

[Brian]

All right, are you finished? Do you have any more you need to say about winning drafts?

[RJ]

Oh, my God.

[Megan]

No, I'm good. We can. We can talk about night four.

[RJ]

Fine. To be a champ, Megan. Nothing wrong with it. All right, listen.

[Megan]

It feels good. I agree.

[RJ]

Speaking of champs, Megan wrote the review of this show, Night four for Jam Base. Good job. Thought it was good. You had a lot of, like, interesting takes on some of these jams, so you should. You should bring that in. Trey did the, like. We're playing this for you because you have a bathtub thing with bathtub gin, which is cool. I think that the. The Reba had a pretty solid jam, and I thought that was, like. I thought it was notable. The Reba golden age. And then my friend. My friend being a jam vehicle, closing out the first set, just what a. What a. What a great. Just what a great thing, you know? It's just. It's just awesome. It's just awesome that this song they. They wrote in 1991 or whatever is now, like a jam vehicle that can close the set. It's just fantastic.

[Megan]

It's also, like, huge for them now, like, the last four times they played the song, it's gone over 17 minutes. The New Year's Eve version almost went 20 minutes is like, a huge part of their, you know, big extravaganza on New Year's Eve. This one is. Doesn't go really far, but it's tight. The song is so inspiring to them right now. It's so cool.

[RJ]

And it. It never went over, like, eight minutes until. Until the bigger dozen. Right? Which was like, they had to as part of jam night, but then now, since 2023, it's just now it's just a jam vehicle, which is great. What a. What a. What a fun. What a fun development.

[Brian]

There are 28 entries on the jam charts. Many of them are eight minutes long.

[Megan]

Yeah, many.

[Brian]

But then, yes, to your point, Meg, there's one with a nice serene page led outro jam. Okay, 7, 25, 17, jam filled night. And then we get. And then it just kind of goes back to being my friend. My friend. And then we get 7, 14, 23 from Alpharetta. That is one of the best shows of 2023. 7, 30, 23 from New York. 12, 29, 7, 26, 24 from Alpine. 17 minutes. 8, 9, 24 from Bethel. 1739, 124 from Commerce City. 1756, 12, 31, 24 from New York. Almost 20 minutes. It's.

[Megan]

It's tracked one second off. One second, one second.

[Brian]

20 minute. My friend, my friend. This one. And it's wild as well. Like, I remember thinking After Blossom 2015, which is a second set that opens with a 20 minute chalk dust into Tweezer, and I remember thinking to myself, like, try telling any fish fan in 1994 that chalk does torture is going to segue into Tweezer. Try telling anyone that, like, this literally, like a closed compositional song is going to become a jam vehicle.

[Megan]

It's just that he wrote to like be like a. Like a set closer, like a rock song. Like, it's like, like, if you can.

[Brian]

Do this, you can do Bowie. Okay. Of course it's possible.

[Megan]

Of course.

[Brian]

If you can do this, you can do Bowie. I did feel like, not to be the critic over here, but whatever. This is where we get into the. Are the 90 minute sets becoming not problematic, but like, this. This jam builds and it just kind of dies. Because it did feel like this set was a little bit of a hodgepodge in a way that it was okay. But I think the Soul Shakedown was the highlight. And maybe the Farmhouse, that was gorgeous. They kind of just like ended. My friend. My friend. Like, they were going. And then Trey kind of looked at Fishman, was just like, okay, and we're done here.

[Megan]

Yeah, Yeah. I do want to say about Farmhouse too. This is the. They played it three times last year and they're already playing it in Mexico. I think it's becoming more frequent in the rotation. I think for years before that it was. We were getting it like once, maybe twice a year pretty consistently. So it's kind of cool. I think Trey's back into Farmhouse.

[Brian]

It's so gorgeous. Yeah.

[Megan]

They played some really great versions. Like, what was that? Was it at Mohegan last year? They played really beautiful version.

[Brian]

I mean, I would just encourage anyone to listen to any 4.0 farmhouse. I'm not joking. Like, they're all stunning. They're all beautiful. They just, like, the. Everything drops out in the middle of it. No solo anymore. It's unbelievable.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's beautiful.

[RJ]

So did you guys. Did we know that what's going through your mind was coming?

[Megan]

Yes, because Trey's in love with the song.

[RJ]

Yeah, he is. Especially after Billy Strings sang it. He was like, all right, I'm in.

[Megan]

Well, this song, though, is. Had, like, go ahead. I'll. I'll go after you. What were you talking about?

[RJ]

I was just gonna say it was okay. I was just gonna say it was okay.

[Megan]

What was the Billy version?

[RJ]

Yeah, I'm just. I don't want everyone to think that we're complaining about Billy Strings sitting in. It was great. What a.

[Megan]

No, the second night, we are kind of complaining about it because. Yeah, I think that's her. Yeah.

[RJ]

I think this version, to me, they're like. I've noticed in this jam that Trey was using, like, really. Remember when he was, like, layering his effects in a way that was, like, super. Like, almost too much. It was, like, a few years ago. He does it sometimes, but, like, in this run especially, and then this jam, there's, like, this layering, but it's really subtle, and, like, it's very. Like, it's productive in terms of, like, moving the jam forward in a way that I thought was really cool to hear. And this, like, again, like, kind of a peak that didn't feel forced and didn't feel like the point of the jam, but they, like, got there. It's really cool. This is a. This is another. Another monster version.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

I think what's cool about this jam is that he's, like. You said rj, he's using. He's, like, shifting tone on top of a classic jamming style. So he'll take, like, this jam could have been just, like, a classic, slow, organic build to, like, a bliss peak, which is what it is, really. But then they have this new kind of party trick where they shift tone over a classic jamming style so they're slightly distorting sounds. So it's a bliss peak or a bliss jam, but it has, like, just a little bit of an edge to it or a little bit of a intrigue on it. And it's so subtle. I think you're right. It's really subtle, but it's really interesting and just makes everything sound more sophisticated. And this is a perfect, like organic slow build to just such a huge, beautiful peak. And then it has that long sustain from Trey. I love this jam. I listened to it again just on the walk home from work today and it's absolutely gorgeous. And then post peak, like Trey, like really kind of smoothly brings it back to the refrain and it's. And it's awesome. And you just want to say mind, mind, mind, mind all the time after you hear this song. It's just in your head forever.

[Brian]

Yeah, I'm pretty blown away by this song.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Brian]

I think lyrically it's really fascinating. I think the fact that the band is able to like, there's a point where they're. The other three guys are singing their own part. Trey is singing his own part. And then all loops back around at the chorus and is one of my favorite songwriting tricks that they've done recently. I think that like the. The melody within the chorus is one of the more heart wrenching ones that we've heard from Fish. And it's also a song that, like, I don't know, those lyrics, like, really make you think in a really cool way. They like, bring out a lot of feeling. I think it's just. It's very impressive. And is one other example of like, we're kind of at this point where like, there's just no end to the Fish project in. In view. And there shouldn't be because if you can continue writing songs like a lot of artists cannot write a song like this 40 plus years into their career, the fact that they're still doing this and then figuring out these ways to jam it. And if you look at the Jam charts, the song's been played six times. There were currently four entries on the Jam charts, soon to be five. Now granted, the first one is with Billy. It's the debut, but it's still a 10 and a half minute version that had like a slight jam off of it. Right after that you get Mondegreen, you get the Dick's version, which was outstanding.

[Megan]

And the Mondegreen one is amazing. It's second set, huge jam opens like it's one of the best jams in Mondegreen.

[Brian]

One of the best shows of the overall year in a lot of ways like that. You just thought Mondegreen was at another level, right, Meg? The notes for the Dicks version is Question isn't when, but if what's going through your mind won't Jam, which is like.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Brian]

The centerpiece of the New Year's Eve. And then here it really reminds me of light in early 3.0, where it was this meeting of a new song that speaks a lot to where the band is at at that point in time. And then because of the song content we then jump off into the band just wants to jam this. And so you get the best of both worlds. It's just, it's. It's outstanding stuff.

[RJ]

I just want to say just, just in terms of the song like this is a. This is a good example of the. Of the combo of Tom and Scott Herman.

[Megan]

100.

[RJ]

Like, this is, this is what they. This is like what they do. This is what they've been doing forever where they. You can tell it's like different perspectives that are building on each other throughout. And I think that's. It works really well. You know, a lot of this album that this, this comes from was on was. Was, you know, the three of them. But man, they, they've been doing this for decades. You know. As you guys know, like Tom and Sky used to email each other lines from songs and then it became Cavern or whatever. But it's just. This is pretty different from Cavern, you know what I mean? In terms of how they're like combining their.

[Megan]

Feels like a. It's almost like a Dylan song or like a. The band like a song. It has like such a. An atmosphere and a vibe and it's situational and it tells like a big story that you have to like figure out. It's kind of a puzzle. I think that's. It's really intriguing. I think you said it well, Brian. And followed for the second time just like a dick's by an absolutely smoking hot cross eyed and painless. Like this version is so good. It's immediately interesting. It's just dystopian. And talk about the synths coming in so well. And this is so cool because Trey's on pages on the synths being really light. He's adding all this like shimmery light. And then Mike just comes in with just like this sick bass line that just sends them into that like demented tease of Funky Town. It's so cool and so much fun and just like the perfect thing you want after like a really big kind of emotional jam is to have like a really sick dance party that launches into like a really weird noise jam. Like this is them nailing, nailing the third quarter. This is like so good.

[Brian]

We were in very clear set of the Year territory. When they went into Tweezer and Tweezer had a really solid jam, I think that we were there. I think that this is similar to what we talked about on night two. Had the fourth quarter been.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Tightened up and. And reflective of what happened in the third quarter. We're in that type of excellent, perfect set territory. That's how you open a set. I'm gonna re. Listen to those three songs a ton throughout the year. I think that it's just like you said, Meg, that combination of like a blissy peaking, beautiful jam with kind of the dystopian weird, you know, dance funk nature of the Cross Eyed and then Tweezer is very chordal and, you know, just. It's not like the most experimental Tweezer in any sort of way, but it is like it's what Tweezer does go. You know, the song ends and you have no idea where it's going to go. So it's a really good cap to the overall run and I think thematically in line with a lot of the great things that we heard out of this run. I think that if you'd gone to Mexico coming out of this show, you would have been like, yeah, that was. The vacation was the right call. And I saw four really, really good Fish shows. Like, I got everything I needed. If you had done that.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Rj, what are your thoughts on it?

[RJ]

Yeah, it was awesome. I. Yeah, I mean, the fourth, you know, the, the. The last songs kind of just, you know, I've been there, I've been there on the beach for a first tube, you know, encore in Mexico. It's great. So fun.

[Megan]

I think we probably all have.

[RJ]

It's really great.

[Megan]

If you've gone to Mexico, you probably have.

[RJ]

That's great. So that's, that's about all I can say about it after the Tweezer. But yeah, I mean, I think you're right. Those first three songs were really like, very complimentary. But, you know, that was kind of the end of the, of the, of the jamming, which is cool, I thought. Yeah. The run was like you said, it was a great. It was a great run. What a start to the year.

[Megan]

Yeah, really, really promising for this year.

[Brian]

When we look ahead 10 months and we're thinking back on 20, 25 fish, are we going to say that this was the best run of the year? Par for the course. Where are you guys at? What are you thinking? What do you. What are your expectations coming out of this?

[RJ]

I mean, I hope that it's a.

[Megan]

Better run I think they have a better run ahead of them. I mean, if they're playing this well right away, I think they've got more in store. I think we're gonna have some really, really good fish this year.

[RJ]

I, I really want to hear like, I want to, as we've talked about, I want to hear more new sounds, you know, so I hope that like there's, there's more sonic development. I think I heard like a, like little pieces here and there in some of these jams, but I think it largely picked up on the 2024 sound, which I do think is kind of an evolution of the past last few years. So I don't know, I would like to hear like a little bit like with Mike being so prominent and, and kind of contributing new things, I think for the first time in a while, or at least last year it felt like that's, that was the start of it. I hope that their sound gets pushed forward a little bit.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think it will from Mike. How about you, Brian?

[Brian]

I'm in the same boat. I mean, I think you always want to be an optimist about this. It would be funny to like go back to yourself in 2016 and be like, do you think we're getting a better run? And then not knowing that summer 2016 is right around the corner. So, you know, I think the optimistic view is yeah, like they're playing at a great level and like I said, like we've basically had top tier fish since New Year's Eve 2022. That run in terms of new sounds, it'll be interesting to hear what they do. I think you're right about Mike, but in terms of, you know what's coming next, like, man, if you're not familiar with the Spring 2023 run, we had it on our top 25 for a reason. I will defend that to the death against rj. That's so good. They're basically playing those same venues down the coast in the exact same two week stretch. I would encourage people to go back and listen to that and get, get ready for what, what should be some outstanding fish to come in just two and a half months time.

[RJ]

That was a good, good drive by of my opinion, Brian. Thank you, I appreciate that. Well, next guys, next week we don't even know it even knows what happened in that episode. It was so long ago. Okay, so next week we're doing an album draft. Is that right? Is that happening?

[Brian]

Next week we are doing the FISH studio album draft.

[RJ]

Jesus.

[Brian]

And I've got it pulled up, get ready. We've got, we got six categories. We've got, what is it, 26, 27 albums, something like that to choose from. A few unreleased, a few only performed lives so that you can get a sense of what we are, what we're digging up here. I'm really excited for this. I hope you're excited for this. I hope you're ready for this. I've been listening to every Fish studio album in chronological order and now I'm going to go backwards to see if my opinions change. I'm coming in ready. I was. I was.

[Megan]

I'm so behind.

[Brian]

Well, I just feel like I, I trusted my gut too much on the 25 plus minute jams episode. Plus I took some risks and now I'm ready to, you know, now I'm ready to come back and re. Reclaim the crown.

[RJ]

All right.

[Megan]

Oh, okay. Rj, We've got our work cut out for us.

[RJ]

We got our work cut out for us.

[Megan]

We should publish the list of albums too. Yeah, the list of albums. Yeah.

[RJ]

All right. All right, so we're gonna do that. Then we're gonna do Mount Rushmore. Remember to vote mosirispod.com Rushmore Vote on your Tell us your top four versions of Bathtub Gin. And then we'll, we'll take that all into account for our first show of that series, which is going to be fun. So we'll see you back here next week for our album draft. Everyone better get better get listening to albums. You guys ready?

[Brian]

Yep, I'm, I'm ready.

[Megan]

Let's go.

[RJ]

Are you ready?

[Brian]

I'm ready.

[RJ]

All right, see you guys.

[Megan]

I'm not yet. I'm only on like the third album, so I'm gonna get there.

[RJ]

We're all gonna get there. See you.

[Brian]

Sat.

[Megan]

The number you have reached is 100.7 WMMS.

[Brian]

It wasn't just a radio station. It was a lifestyle.

[RJ]

Cleveland is a rock and roll city for sure.

[Brian]

The Wrath of the Buzzer wmms Cleveland. The rise and fall of one of the most iconic radio stations in America, Pro files. The wrath of the buzzard ProH files. Subscribe now wherever you get podcasts. Hello, Tom May here, host of Future Friday. I've spent the last 15 years on.

[RJ]

The road with my band, the Menzingers, where I've met all kinds of wild and fascinating people. So I started a podcast on Future Friday. I talked to fellow musicians about the.

[Brian]

Moments that made them their passions outside.

[RJ]

Of music and the curiosities that tie us all together.

[Brian]

I've also talked to Velocity likes of UFO researchers, magicians, soldiers, and documentary filmmakers.

[RJ]

And I'm constantly searching for folks that.

[Brian]

Can shape and change our view of the world.

[RJ]

You can check out Future Friday wherever you like.