MSG 2024 Recap

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast: MSG 2024 Recap Summary

Release Date: January 3, 2025

Introduction

In the January 3, 2025 episode of the Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod), hosted by Osiris Media, the team delves deep into Phish’s performances at Madison Square Garden (MSG) during their 2024 run. The episode offers insightful analyses, highlights memorable moments, and reflects on the band's evolution, all while incorporating the passionate perspectives of dedicated fans. This comprehensive recap is structured to provide both longtime listeners and newcomers with a thorough understanding of Phish’s 2024 performances at MSG.

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Reflecting on the Past and Looking Ahead

The episode kicks off with the hosts—Brian, Megan, and RJ—sharing light-hearted banter about entering the mid-decade mark. They reminisce about five years prior, acknowledging the unpredictability of the journey ahead:

• RJ [01:30]: "Halfway into the decade. How crazy is this?"
• Megan [01:42]: "Oh, God, that's terrifying."

This sets the tone for a reflective discussion on Phish’s past performances and the anticipation surrounding their future endeavors.

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Fan Voicemail and the 2.0 Series Discussion

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to a voicemail from a listener who shares thoughtful insights on Phish’s 2.0 era. The voicemail raises questions about the public perception of 2.0 compared to other eras, suggesting that fans were at a different life stage during that period, which influenced their reception:

• Caller [04:17]: "Maybe it comes, you know, perception is reality... Maybe it's where we were."

This prompts the hosts to delve into how fans' life stages and the band’s evolution intertwine, affecting the overall appreciation of different eras.

• RJ [05:53]: "I don't think this was the greatest run. I think this had a really great show and then some up and down music..."
• Megan [07:58]: "I definitely relate to what he's saying... I think that was a time that we separated from the band and the music."

Their discussion emphasizes the impact of personal growth and stability on fans’ connections with Phish’s music.

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Event Highlights: Meetup Appreciation

Megan shares a heartfelt shout-out to listeners who attended a recent meetup at the Irish Exit, highlighting the sense of community and appreciation among fans:

• Brian [08:37]: "We got a message in the chat here from Mark, who said, thanks for organizing the meetup..."
• Megan [09:03]: "It was so fun... Thanks to everybody that came by and said hi throughout the whole run."

This segment underscores the podcast’s role in fostering fan interactions and creating memorable experiences beyond the music itself.

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Analyzing the MSG 2024 Performances

A central focus of the episode is the detailed analysis of Phish’s performances at MSG in 2024. The hosts dissect various aspects, from setlist choices to the overall energy of the shows.

1. Setlist Consistency and Variations

   • Brian [11:03]: "They played their 85th through 88th show at MSG this past week... It's a lot of times to play in one room."
   • Megan [11:25]: "They probably just play a good one, hopefully. It seems to be at 50-50 these days."

   The hosts discuss the frequency of MSG performances and ponder whether Phish is overplaying the venue, balancing between consistency and freshness.

2. Highlight Performances: Ruby Waves and Tweezer

   • RJ [24:07]: "The Ruby Waves is the clear, huge jam... It just felt very patient, fully connected."
   • Megan [24:01]: "Getting lost in the jams, which is the whole point, and that's pretty rare for me."

   Specific performances, such as "Ruby Waves" and "Tweezer," are highlighted for their exceptional jamming sections, showcasing the band’s continuous evolution and improvisational prowess.

3. Crowd Energy and Venue Influence

   • Megan [15:20]: "The MSG crowd is, I think, probably unbeatable in terms of energy."
   • RJ [23:23]: "The YouTube comment story of 2024 is new songs adding to a show instead of derailing it. It's interesting."

   The dynamic energy of MSG audiences is credited for elevating performances, with the hosts noting how crowd interaction can both inspire and influence the band’s setlists and improvisations.

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Drafting and Ranking Favorite Shows

The episode transitions into a playful yet analytical segment where the hosts discuss upcoming drafts of their favorite 2024 shows. They touch upon the competitiveness of their selections and the anticipation for listener engagement.

• Brian [75:54]: "We will be back on Wednesday afternoon where we'll be drafting our favorite shows from 2024."
• Megan [75:48]: "One of my highlights of this New Year's Eve run was getting to spend a little time with Sam Timber."

This segment highlights the podcast’s interactive nature, encouraging listener participation and fostering a sense of community through shared experiences and friendly competition.

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New Year's Eve Show: A Bold Experiment

A significant portion of the recap centers on Phish’s New Year's Eve performance, noted for its experimental three-set show that incorporated elements of Electronic Dance Music (EDM). The hosts delve into the artistic risks taken and the varied fan reactions:

1. Innovative Third Set

   • RJ [20:16]: "One of the coolest aspects... it's the first time they've incorporated a style of music that came after they were created as a band."
   • Megan [53:13]: "The whole New Year's set was absolutely amazing... They really did that to a T."

   The third set is lauded for its daring fusion of EDM with Phish’s signature sound, representing a forward-thinking approach that bridges different musical genres and fan demographics.

2. Fan Reactions and Polarization

   • Brian [16:32]: "People have different perspectives on it... a lot of people did not like it."
   • Megan [57:36]: "I did not realize it was so polarizing."

   While some fans celebrated the innovative direction, others expressed confusion or disappointment, reflecting the diverse expectations within the Phish community.

3. Production and Visuals

   • Megan [54:02]: "The screens that Kuroda had over the top of MSG... it was so beautiful."
   • Brian [56:30]: "I wish it was like 40 minutes instead of 17 minutes..."

   The visual production elements, including dynamic lighting and projections, received praise for enhancing the live experience, despite mixed opinions on the set's musical length and structure.

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Final Reflections and Upcoming Plans

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts share personal reflections on the year’s performances and outline upcoming content plans:

• RJ [72:43]: "If you're going to a four-night run, you know you're going to get that... it's in a really good spot."
• Megan [73:04]: "This has made me think deeper about the band, but it's also led to deeper enjoyment."

They emphasize the balance between analytical critique and personal enjoyment, encouraging listeners to engage with Phish’s music both intellectually and emotionally.

Additionally, the hosts announce their next episode focused on drafting favorite shows from 2024, promising further analysis and fan interaction:

• RJ [75:03]: "We will have these in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 categories here. The biggest of all is the summer tour..."

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Conclusion

The Helping Friendly Podcast's MSG 2024 Recap offers a multifaceted exploration of Phish’s performances at Madison Square Garden. Through in-depth discussions, personal anecdotes, and critical analyses, the episode captures the essence of Phish’s enduring appeal and the evolving dynamics of their live shows. Notable for its inclusion of fan perspectives and detailed breakdowns of specific performances, the recap serves as an invaluable resource for understanding the nuances of Phish’s 2024 MSG run.

Listeners are left with a sense of anticipation for future episodes, which promise to continue dissecting and celebrating the rich tapestry of Phish’s musical journey.

Notable Quotes:

• Megan [09:03]: "It was so fun... Thanks to everybody that came by and said hi throughout the whole run."
• RJ [24:07]: "The Ruby Waves is the clear, huge jam... It just felt very patient, fully connected."
• Megan [53:13]: "The whole New Year's set was absolutely amazing... They really did that to a T."

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For more recaps and in-depth Phish discussions, tune into the Helping Friendly Podcast, your go-to source for all things Phish.

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Brian]

We will figure it out. Happy New Year, everybody. We are here to discuss fish. As usual, this is the Helping friendly podcast. Brian, Megan, how you guys doing?

[RJ]

Doing great. Halfway into the decade. How crazy is this? Five years ago right now, we were all kind of like, 2020 should be pretty fun. We had no idea what was to come. What will come in 2025?

[Megan]

Oh, God, that's terrifying.

[RJ]

Terrified.

[Megan]

Way to start us off, Ryan.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Maybe the scariest thing that will happen in 2025 is goose discovers evil jamming. How about that?

[Brian]

Hey, they have discovered it. It's just a matter of when they can source it.

[RJ]

Fair point, fair point.

[Megan]

And fish becomes. Becomes an EDM band.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[RJ]

A lot of thoughts on emotional manipulation. Let's go.

[Brian]

Could be. Megan, how's your year going?

[Megan]

It's going great. It's been. Yeah, it's been too busy already. But that's one of my goals this year is to, like, slow down a little bit. I don't know. Do you guys think I can do it?

[RJ]

No.

[Megan]

Yeah. Okay. So now I know that you know me, every year I'm like, I'm gonna slow down and take some time to think and actually just chill. And I never do.

[RJ]

I always get that feeling what's happening. I always get that feeling around the holidays. And then it just. I realize it runs counterintuitive to how the world works. And I need to make money to survive and I need to tear off jams and albums to survive. These are two things I have to do. And they take a lot of Time.

[Megan]

They have to. I don't know how you roped me into this second one. It's taken up a lot of my time this year.

[Brian]

Those are two of the ways that I would describe you, Brian. You work and you rank stuff.

[RJ]

It's a hard job. Look, I didn't choose this path, rj. This is the path that chose me. And I just have to fulfill it. Otherwise I'm going to disappoint people like yourself. Probably not, but myself, Most. Most. Most certainly.

[Brian]

Well, that was a lot of people.

[Megan]

That, that like those lists, Brian. A lot of people relying on a.

[RJ]

Lot of people here.

[Brian]

Well, Brian, I appreciate you bringing, bringing some Jay Z lyrics into, into the pod. The first episode of the year. It's all, it's all moving in the right direction. All right, so guys, we have, we have a voicemail about our series. There are people who are still. Still have thoughts on our series. Do you want to listen to that real quick?

[RJ]

I hadn't thought about our series in like six days. That's crazy. My goodness, I forgot we did that.

[Brian]

You're back. Back. We're back. There you go.

[Caller]

Top 25 Tour breakdown from the previous week. Thank you for all you do. I was wondering about your 2.0, because I actually feel kind of like the way the public feels about 2.0. Maybe it's the 10 month car crash, as you say, that ended it that makes me feel this way. But I never go back to it. I also wonder if it is the fan base life that they were living in 1.0 and 3.0 versus 2.0, for instance, you know, if, you know, majority of the fans I see as my age. So if in 1990, fall of 97, you were living in the woods in college with your three best friends and then in 2017 your kids were out of diapers and you're at the Baker's Dozen and you know, you maybe had a career and a home and, you know, some sort of stability. But at 2.0 in Worcester, you were like 26 and you're like, oh, geez, I gotta get my life in order. So maybe it comes, you know, perception is reality. Maybe it has to do with, you know, by the way, that guy I just made up. It's not exactly me hypothetical. Maybe, maybe it's where we were. In addition to, of course, where the band was. Thank you guys. Happy New Year.

[Brian]

All right, so that's where we start. We're going back to talking about 2.0. Brian dreams.

[RJ]

I think there's a lot of truth to that. I mean, I think that we see perception and where people are at in their life reflecting a lot of, you know, the. The eras of Fish that are celebrated. RJ made his entire case about why fall 95 was not the top tour. Because we had all of these young Fish fans coming into being and then telling us for months upon months and years upon years that it was the greatest tour of all time. And I think a lot of those fans were at that point in life that our caller describes that the mid-20s, from afar, often seem like this. They're supposed to be this really fun experience and really fun period in your life. But I think as you get past them and as you start to get a little bit of stability, they kind of, in hindsight, seem like, I don't want to say the worst part of your life, but, like, it's like it's this great unknown. Like, you don't have any responsibilities, but you also don't really have, like, the finances to do everything that you want to do. You don't tote know what you want to do yet, unless you're one of those amazing people that got everything in order in high school. And then you can look back on them and be like, well, I made mistakes I just simply couldn't make now because there would be heavier and heavier consequences. So I wonder if, you know, where a lot of people were at in the early 2000s was a bit walking on the edge. The band was doing the same as well. And now we look in the past and we see it as kind of like a blip rather than as a period to celebrate. But, you know, I'm just a guy who was in college saying, man, now I have no responsibilities and I don't have to go to these classes, and so I can just go on Fish tour like everyone else did. I've been reading about this in the Farmers Almanac, and then Trey said, no, we're not going to play anymore. We're done. And I had to deal with that, and now I do. I deal with that by justifying that it was actually one of the strongest periods in this band's history. Because it all comes back to my perspective. No, I have more to say, but I'll just pause there. I think 2.0 is great.

[Megan]

I definitely relate to what he's saying as far as, like, where I was. I think that was the time when a lot of us realized, like, maybe there were other things and we should be getting our shit together. That was certainly what was going on for Me and going on Fish tour and doing all those things we did when we were younger maybe seemed a little bit immature and not what we needed to be doing to move our lives forward. And, you know, I've realized the error in those ways, and I'm back to it. But I definitely think that for a lot of us, that was a time that we separated from the band and the music. So I think that that is true. It's a little bit of a collective, like, fog then.

[Brian]

One thing I just want to point out, we got a message in the chat here from Mark, who said, thanks for organizing the meetup. We had a. We had a fun time on the 29th at the Moynihan train bar known as the Irish Exit. And Mark said that he and his wife were a lonely pair as their normal crew couldn't swing it. So they appreciated us holding that event. Megan, for you, because you. You're the one who held the event. I was just there.

[Megan]

It was so fun. Yeah, you were just there. That was so fun. And shout out to Ryan Storm for helping us get that space because we were lazy and it was great. We had, like, a roped off section. Lots of people came by. Tons of people were saying really nice things about us. RJ was trying to hand out flyers and doing a miserable job at it, and it was really fun. Yeah, it was a great time. And thanks to everybody that came by and said hi throughout the whole run. It was so meaningful and special and people come by and tell us great things, especially how I deserve to win the draft. That was really cool when people came by and said that to me, which happened a lot.

[Brian]

Weird. I didn't hear that. I didn't hear that happen once.

[Megan]

No. That's cool. I mean, you're only there one night, so, you know.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Have you started preparing for next week's draft yet, Meg? I don't know.

[Megan]

Well, someone hasn't made a spreadsheet.

[RJ]

There's a spreadsheet in the doc.

[Brian]

Wow.

[Megan]

Really?

[RJ]

There's been one in there for weeks.

[Megan]

Oh, no.

[RJ]

I don't know what to tell.

[Megan]

You're supposed to, like, alert us when you make these, Brian, so that we know.

[RJ]

I'll search my text and tell you exactly. When I alerted you guys, you didn't want to go.

[Megan]

Yeah, the readers.

[Brian]

You don't want to do this.

[RJ]

You don't want to do this.

[Brian]

I don't think you want to go down this path.

[Megan]

No, I have not started preparing at all. And I'm going back to work on Monday. And I'm away this weekend, so I'm nervous about it already.

[RJ]

It's going to be tough for you. We'll see.

[Brian]

Yeah. Who knows? Who knows what'll happen? Doesn't matter.

[RJ]

All right, guys, never mind. It's right, rj. It's all about the content. That's all that matters.

[Megan]

That's right. And you can just tell me what you told me last time, Brian, which is just don't worry about. Don't try to win the draft quote from Brian Brinkman last time.

[RJ]

Yeah, don't try.

[Megan]

Don't try.

[RJ]

How many. How many new listeners did I pick up by my whipping post pick, huh? You tell me, rj. You got the data. We know that they're out there. They're like, wait, I got to listen to this podcast. This guy picked something from 85. What a fish. Genius.

[Megan]

What a not noob. What a vet. 85, you must know your fish, Frankman.

[RJ]

He's. He goes back and he studies really cool stuff.

[Brian]

Okay, so based on my calculations, this was like the. Maybe. Are they close to 100 shows at MSG? It's like in the 80s.

[Megan]

Yeah, it was 88 or. No, 86 or 87. Somewhere around there. Yeah.

[Brian]

Okay, so they played their 85th through 88th show at MSG this past week around there. It's a lot of times to play in one room.

[Megan]

I know. I was looking at that Billy Joel banner. It was 109, and I was like, dude, we're coming for you.

[Brian]

87 after this run says, thank you. 84, 85, 86, 87. God. Wonderful.

[Megan]

Wow. Okay, that's beautiful.

[Brian]

So that's.

[RJ]

They will acknowledge the hundredth show at msg, or do you think that they will just play a show?

[Megan]

They'll probably just play a show. Maybe they'll play a good one, hopefully. It seems to be at 5050 these days.

[Brian]

Wow.

[RJ]

Is it? That's an interesting thought. I guess.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[RJ]

The last two New Year's runs have been a little bit of like a 5050 vibe, right?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Which brings up the question of are they playing MSG too much?

[Megan]

Well, the summer shows are good. Like, those summer shows have all been really good. So I don't know.

[Brian]

Man, Monda Green really turned Megan onto this festival.

[Megan]

It was a pivotal moment.

[Brian]

Runs just awful.

[RJ]

We got an interesting year Fish ahead with Meg being scarred by Monda Green.

[Brian]

Yeah, well, you know, the encore. This. The. The last night, you know, could have done that at Monogram.

[Megan]

I mean. Yeah. Is. Is kind of crushing that they played Ikyulys I was not there. It's fine, Brian.

[RJ]

I, I know the feeling. Yeah, go ahead, rj.

[Brian]

Brian, what is the, what's the story? What's the headline from this run?

[RJ]

I. I have like, I have a couple of headlines, but I think the biggest one, and this was my question going into it, and it led to my thoughts on it in the days since the run is how do you end an all time Fish year? I think that we talked about this in our last episode. I think summer 2024 is only going to kind of grow in esteem as, as the years go on. And I think that we're at a point where I was thinking about this a lot throughout the run because I'll come out and say, I don't think this was the greatest run. I think this had a really great show and then some up and down music throughout, some really cool moments on the back end. But I find maybe this is aging. I don't know, maybe this is perspective. Maybe it's where Fish is at. I don't personally feel the stress when like a downrun happens of like, man, are they going to get it back? And this is, this is something that is very new to me because the last two years have been so strong. I remember two, two years ago feeling very kind of nervous about where Fish was going and what they were putting into it, what they wanted out of this, how much longer this was all going to go. And I kind of felt coming out of this run a sense of they're just playing now and there's. They seem to be in a place where they can really tap into the brilliance and they can tap into that kind of mysterious quality that makes a really good show a really good show and leads to really expansive jams almost at will, in a way. And I think that if you look at this run in Albany, they're kind of just two almost like commas at the end of 2024. They don't necessarily define the year, but they also, they. They aren't at the highs of where the year has been, but they've had moments of the overall heights. So that's a much longer headline than would be able to be printed on the front page. But that kind of expands upon my. My question of, like, how do you end an all time Fish year?

[Megan]

Yeah, I like that. I, I was thinking about that too. And I think the thing about these MSG runs is they are so much fun and the MSG crowd is, I think, probably unbeatable in terms of energy. And one feeling that I have is that the crowd energy elevates these shows so much. And I don't know if I've ever been. You know, there's always so much energy at Fish shows, but I don't know if I've been anywhere in one venue that consistently has this level of energy. And I felt like the band meets that at times, but at other times gets carried by that. And so I think that there's definitely was a lot of moments in this run where it was just super fun. And if you saw me, either of the two nights that I saw, I was having the best time of my life. But I definitely only saw one really, really great show. And I think that the New Year's Eve gag was fantastic for a lot of reasons, and I'm excited to get into that. But I think consistency wise, there were some moments, but overall it was not at the level that they've been playing at this year.

[Brian]

Yeah, well, I just want to say there's a lot of activity in the chat talking about how I've been robbed in various drafts and we're not even going to get into this. I'm going to show the comments.

[RJ]

Well, we're showing this one because it's too damn good. RJ gets robbed every draft. At this point, I'm ready to sue Dominion to get to the bottom of it. I don't know if we just implicated ourselves in the Rudy Giuliani trial, but it's an interesting theory. I'll put it out there.

[Brian]

It really is interesting.

[RJ]

People are talking about it. Many I don't know, but people.

[Megan]

That's the first person I've heard talk about it, but a lot.

[Brian]

So, yeah, I don't. I don't ever have the nervousness that you describe, Brian. Maybe not surprisingly, but maybe that's just part because we're different in that way. But they always, you know, they're going to keep doing this until they die. You know, like, I think there's no. I don't think there's going to be like, oh, we had like a down year, or, or it didn't feel as, you know, interesting or novel. Like, let's, like, they're going to pare back as they have been, but they're going to keep doing this forever, you know, as long as they can.

[RJ]

I think at this point, I feel that, like, I was thinking about that watching the New Year's Eve show that I just don't know when. And I felt in years past, like, I don't know how many more years we have of this And I don't. I don't know why they would stop. Like, even if parts of this run didn't connect with everyone enough of it, I think connected with the larger fan base in a way. And the band looks like they're having an amazing time. Yeah, I don't know. I don't. I don't see them stopping until someone is unable to play music anymore.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan]

And they don't. And they don't have this amount of energy. I mean, the amount of energy that they bring to the stage, I mean, particularly on the. You know, we're going to get into it, but the 1229 show was. Was so high energy and so just. Just an incredible, I think, consistent show. And then thinking about the gag and that third set on New Year's Eve, throwing a party that enthusiastic on New Year's Eve is incredible. And the fact that they're still doing that and finding new ways to do it is. Is phenomenal and definitely doesn't speak to them being ready to stop or nor should they 1.

[RJ]

And not just the party, but, like, think of all the music that Fish has incorporated into the Sound of Fish. Like, one of the unique things about Fish is that they. They have a sound, but like more than most other bands I listen to, they are a little bit of classical, a little bit of noise, a little bit of kraut rock, a little bit of pop, a little bit of African. Like, you know, whatever bouncing around the room is. There's. There's so much like the kind of Spanish elements within Punch in the Eye, you know, like the middle part of it. Like a song, like, bluegrass song, with blue, black, big, black, furry creature from Mars that is metal. All of this music is music that came before them. I think one of the coolest aspect of what they did on New Year's Eve is, as far as I can tell, it's the first time they've taken a style of music, music that came after they were created as a band and really tried to own that sound in the moment. And the idea of them now looking forward in this sort of standpoint of, like, what is the music that is hitting people that may be in, like, another generation beyond those of us that were swept up in the fish story, in the fish mythology. The fact that they're incorporating that gives them another 10, 15 years of musical discovery of what's happening right now in music in ways that I don't think any of us can really predict.

[Megan]

Yeah. And I think of, like, how excited Trey is by, like, King Gizzard and Geese and, like, these bands that are doing a lot of this really creative stuff, and it's exciting to think about how that might inspire him.

[Brian]

Yeah. I think, like, that was the first thought I had about the New Year's Eve set. Three is, like, how much Trey's Daughters influenced what.

[RJ]

Totally.

[Brian]

Probably a lot, you know.

[RJ]

Totally. That's such a good point.

[Brian]

But. But, you know, it's fine. It's great. I don't. I don't think they really. I don't really have a headline from this run.

[Megan]

You had a lot of fun.

[Brian]

That was great. Yeah. The show I saw was. Was awesome. I mean, got lost in the jams, which is. Which is the whole point, and that's pretty rare for me. So I thought. I thought that was great. I think it's, like, it's gonna go into the books as, like, you know. Yeah. Shows. 84, 37 or whatever. I don't know. I don't know if there's much beyond it. I think the point you made about the New Year's Eve kind of, like, musical approach is a good one. That's probably. Probably the one notable thing.

[RJ]

Yeah. When you, like, zoom out five, six years and people think of this run, like, you know, if you thought back to 2019, what's the first thought that comes to your mind? Not the year. Like, the New Year's Eve run.

[Megan]

Tweezer.

[Brian]

Tweezer.

[RJ]

The tweezer. Like, the 28th. That year is really fun. The 29th has some fun moments, but that's. That whole run is about those, like, seven minutes in the middle of Tweezer. And when we think back, we think of, you know, what did that actually say about the band at that point in time?

[Megan]

And I think that's, like, definitely thinking about, like, the Ruby Waves, which is, you know, the best jam of the run. And. And then the third set on New Year's. I think they're new songs that the band is super inspired by, and they're thinking about new ways to incorporate those. And. And with new styles of music. It's cool.

[RJ]

And what's crazy about that is that that is now a pretty normal thing to do in New Year's Eve. Like, do you think back to 2013? Fuego is the song that leads us out of Odd Lang Syne. Light comes next, still a relatively new song. 2015, Blazon gets the treatment right out of 2016. Petrichor is the gag. 2017, Soul Planet is introduced. Yeah. 18. We get Mercury and Santos, you know, and then 22 and 23 were a little bit more nostalgic and, like, deliberately looking backwards. But here again, we kind of pick up on this thing that's been happening for over a decade now where the band is using new songs. Even if you go back to 2011, they use Steam in that sort of manner. I think that it's like, it's cool how it's become a part of, like, introducing the next year by these new songs and by these new sounds that really showcase, you know, where the band is going and what they're directing is right now.

[Brian]

This is a good point from. Kind of adds to what you're saying. The YouTube comment story of 2024 is new songs adding to a show instead of derailing it. It's interesting.

[Megan]

New songs for sure. I mean, I think that was true last year too, you know, thinking about, like, so many of these songs that came out last summer and, you know, started in this. In that Trey Trio show. And yeah, it's. It's really cool because they're so inspired and the songs they're writing are good. I mean, think about Evolve came out this year. That album is. I just listened to that again recently. It's a very good album. It's a very good album to come out in your 41st year as a band.

[Brian]

What? All right, let's talk about some highlights. What, what, what were everyone's highlights?

[RJ]

I mean, the Ruby Waves is the clear, huge jam, really connected jam. Kind of worked similar to the Ruby waves from Alpine 2019, where we're in a jam in bathtub gin and then trade just says no. Like we're doing Ruby Waves and it's just automatic at this point in time. Like when they play Ruby Waves, you just know. At least I'm getting 15, 16 minutes of interesting music. Like the version from Mondegreen is a perfect example. Doesn't go super deep, I would argue is the most interesting part of that show other than the Woodlands Jam, a really weird atmospheric space. They did the same thing the last Night of Mexico, where it's only 16 minutes, 17 minutes, but it, like, is a full on complete jam. And here we get another 30 plus minute Ruby waves going back to Eugene Dayton. And now this, I believe, are the only three 30 minute Ruby waves. Someone with stats in front of them, not talking, maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but like, it's just a song that. Oh, excuse me, an Alpine, of course, obviously, duh. But like it opens itself up to so much opportunity because it's like a 2 1/2 minute long song and for whatever reason, the groove and the theme of the song just seems to push the band. Middle of the 20th, 20s minutes really hit me. Awesome synthesizer work from Paige. Mike has been absolutely crushing it this whole year and just added so much to the overall jam. It just felt very patient, fully connected.

[Megan]

Yeah, that was definitely my highlight of the whole run. And I got to spend that jam standing right next to Mr. RJB. And it was my longest jam I have ever seen live besides the Woodlands Jam. So it was my long, longest real time jam. And I've been wanting one of those for a while and I haven't had one that long since the Tweez in 2019. So it was an awesome moment just to ride that wave and just take that kind of effortless narrative journey. It was beautiful. And it's the longest jam they've ever played there at MSG too. So, like, it was a big deal. And I think the end is probably part of my favorite. I mean, it's really cool because it goes between light and dark a few times, but that last bit, like there's that part when it teases, when they tease, Frankie says. And it gets so beautiful. And then it gets into this like, funk section, but it's super layered. And I think that that is something that I heard again in the. My friend. My friend from this run. And a few other times they're doing this thing where they get into that kind of like a funk groove, but it's really. It's a really kind of subdued funk groove. And I don't mean that as in a negative way. It's not kind of this hard hitting, like, pulsing funk groove. It's really sophisticated and they're text a lot of different, like layers on and a lot of sophisticated sounds, mostly because of Paige, but also because how melodically Mike is working. And it's just. It's beautiful.

[Brian]

There are some really, like the. The way that that jam evolved is really pretty great. It's similar to what I think we'll talk about next week in terms of 2024. Right. I think it kind of reflects that. There's like the really amazing, beautiful part, but it's like halfway into it. And then the second half is kind of more exploratory, which I think is great. Yeah.

[Megan]

Yards after catch situation.

[Brian]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. As. As referenced in in a famous article now on the Internet. Memorialized on the Internet. Yeah. I mean. Okay, well, let's talk about the. There was a question in the comments about the 28th. So. Okay, what I feel like several years ago, I can't remember what year it was. It must have been 2017. There was a 1228 show that was, that I thought was really good and Matt, Matt Dwyer did not like it. I think that was 1228 17. Yeah, there's a lot of like. Yeah, but he did not like that. And I, I didn't. I don't know. I remember that because it was the first night and he said that Trey kept dicking around with his effects all night and didn't really like work. But I don't know. Is that like the 1228 shows don't often need. They don't often need a warm up night for these. So does this, does this stick out to you all as like, as a show that is, you know, an outlier in terms of being an off opener at msg?

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I think there was a time there in the late 2000 and tens where because I personally thought that 2017 show really hit. I thought 1228, 2016 really hit. I thought 12 28, 2019 really hit. This reminded me a little bit of the 1228 show from 2013 and 2018 where the rust of being off for eight weeks kind of shows, maybe a little bit of the pressure. I think it's probably. I've got to imagine there's still butterflies those dudes get when they like walk on stage at MSG for the first of four nights. It's an isolated run, so kind of everything is going into this. There's probably stuff in their head from a logistical standpoint that doesn't happen even on a tour opener when they know that they can kind of settle in. So some years they come out and they're really strong. Other years they come out and it's a little bit more like this. I thought what was most shocking about this show was just how awkward off the chemistry between Trey and Fishman felt. Fishman missed a bunch of cues early on in Reba. Poor Heart was really, really sloppy to start. And then a couple things happened where like two songs in particular, Kill Devil Falls and Oblivion are played in the first set, which had they really connected, could have led to a really strong set. 1. Those are two of the better performing songs over the last two years. Specifically kills had an outstanding 2024. So when they threw that there, my initial thought was these guys are feeling ready and they just want to like jam and see what happens. And it was a very contained version. Oblivion was only about six minutes long. And then the second set, you Kind of get this. Like, Back on the Train's the opener. No, now Excel is the opener. No, now let's go into the jam song in Wave of Hope. Oh, wait, that didn't work. Let's try to play Round Room. Oh, wait, we don't totally remember how to play it. Okay, how about. I always wanted it this way. That might jam. Oh, no, let's go to Twist. Okay, let's just play Mango Blaze on Cavern. David Bowie, like, it just. It never fully got going and got into that, like. And you almost. I remember feeling, okay, we're at it again the next night. But then Ruby Waves just, like, organically built up. So I think it's just. Maybe someone was there and they had an awesome time, and that's cool. Musically, I don't necessarily think it connected the way that we've seen them connect with ease in 2024.

[Megan]

To me, that's the difference. Not necessarily the 28th show, but more that it. It seemed off for 2024. Like, it didn't seem like the level that the band has been playing at all year. But then no one's toured. You know, none of them have been on tour this fall. Like, Trey has been playing. Like, I don't know. I think that makes a difference, especially for Trey. Not that he sounded off particularly. I think especially towards. In the next three nights. I thought his tone was amazing, and he sounded. He was going off a lot. Like a lot of hose, a lot of shredding. It was very like, Trey, Heavy run. But, yeah, I think the show just stood out in terms of this year because there wasn't one point when they connected in a jam, and that is unique for this year. And I definitely think that the 29th show started off well as well. I think the first set was fantastic.

[RJ]

It's a really good point about the jam thing, because even 10 years ago, most shows didn't have a jam. Like a standout jam that everybody went back to. Now it's kind of the norm. And if you go through the 2024 set list, it's basically this, the first night of Mexico and the second night of Mohegan that really didn't feature, like, a big standout jam. You know, even at its. At its depths. Monda Green every night had a, had a, had a jam.

[Megan]

Thank God for that. Fuego encore, right?

[RJ]

What did you think, rj?

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I. I don't totally. I mean, I guess ending with a short and not very inspired David Bowie is kind of a great summary of that show.

[Megan]

You know, that was offensive.

[Brian]

That was sort of like, yeah, it's just like, let's. Let's go. Let's move on.

[RJ]

Do you think Trey found that funny, though?

[Brian]

No, I don't think so. I assume he was frustrated after the show. I assume that they, like, yeah, you're right about the communication issues, but I do feel like playing Fuck your Face and encore and 46. Like, it seemed like they were probably just trying to, like, figure, find something that works. I mean, the. The first set was weird. 83 minutes, which is, like, a long set to have, like, things not really work. The simple opener was. Was probably the best part of the show.

[RJ]

Yeah, well, that.

[Brian]

Which is crazy.

[RJ]

Yeah, that's the thing. Go ahead, Meg.

[Megan]

I was gonna say, I think that moment is when I heard that song. I was like, the show's gonna be great. And then they never connected again. I think the twist has, like, a few moments that are contemplative and interesting, but otherwise, it's really bad. And, yeah, Evie, Dude. Saying it's one of the worst shows in MSG history.

[RJ]

I think.

[Brian]

I don't know. Maybe.

[RJ]

I think the one thing holding me back from saying that like. Like 12:30, 2011, I think probably goes down as the worst show that the band played in that building. And partially because of the date. And this is something we can. We can talk about here. 12:28, I tend to be. I just kind of want to see where they're at, and if they're at a really high, connected level, I get super excited. If they're not, I kind of just like, okay, this show happened. I went back and listened to what my highlights were. You're absolutely right, rj. This show started off really strong, simple, and free. And there were some really cool little moments in free that I was like, oh, we're already here. And then it just, like, nosedived a little bit. I did think that the Fuck youk Face 46 Days was the most exciting part of the show. Trey, like, the band just seemed to gel towards the end of Fuck youk Face. And it led to a really cool, albeit short, but, like, a really cool little 46 days, which made me feel like, okay, there's. We're moving into 1229 feeling good, but I definitely think it's in that lowest of tiers of MSG shows. I've never gone through and tried to organize all MSG shows. Maybe that should be a project in 2025.

[Megan]

You see the light bulb going on above Brian's.

[Brian]

I just don't want anyone to forget about the fact that they played the msg on 10, 21. 96. All right? Everyone can just, like, hold. Everyone just hold your. Hold your fire. Go back to that.

[RJ]

Fair point. It's a fair point.

[Megan]

We forget a lot about 96. Even though we saw so many shows that year, I still forget a lot about it.

[Brian]

I think that the Ruby Waves on night two gets, you know, obviously, is amazing. We could talk about it for the whole time and break it down, but the first set, I thought had, like, great, great extensions in, like, ACDC bag and Caspian and Runaway Jim in a way that made it seem to me like it was totally different from the night before already in the first. In the first set.

[Megan]

That first set was fantastic. You have that, like, moment intro, which is, like. Sounds like they're gonna play Black Eyed Katie because it extends so long. And Mike takes that, like, insane solo, and Trey's just watching him the whole time, like, smiling at him and dancing. And that, to me, was one of those moments when you see, like, them caught off guard with each other and just, like, loving it. And Mike is just. What a banner year for Mike. He's just sounded amazing all year. He's been so turned up in the mix. It sounds perfect. And he's just so on his game and really elevating a lot of these jams. And that moment, to me, felt so locked in. And after that, yeah, I thought playing Caspian there, I was like, this is either gonna destroy this set or be amazing. And it turned out to be amazing. I thought that jam was really cool, super interesting. And then the gym was incredible, and then the Yam ghost. RJ and I missed the segue from the vocal jam into Ghost because we went to the bathroom during the vocal jam, which is the move, but we missed it. So it was. I heard it, and I was like. I actually thought they were playing, like. Like, other fish music in the bathroom when I heard Ghosts, because I was like, they can't be already in Ghost. But they were. They were. That was amazing.

[Brian]

I want to just. Let's just step back and look at the facts here. Okay. Before they went into Ghosts, the set was an hour and 20 minutes at the end of youf Enjoy Myself. There's no way it was over normal circumstances that they play something else at the end of that. And when they start the vocal jam, you have at least two minutes of them doing nonsense.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You know, like, until something happens and probably the end of the set. So I'm just saying the odds were on My side and I. I stand by that.

[Megan]

It was the perfect moment.

[Brian]

And as I as Forbin. Forbin777 monsters. I agree that it's like, it's the new. It's the new shredding song for. For Trey, which is awesome. That's a good set. I thought that was a good set.

[Megan]

Really good set.

[RJ]

Can I bring some numbers into this?

[Brian]

Yeah, please. Just as long as they don't contradict the numbers I just said.

[RJ]

No, no, they compliment. I. I'm reviewing the numbers that I. I took down the. The notable bust outs, rarities, whatnot. I'm looking at the gap chart right now and realizing a bit of a trend. So 1228 has a 28 show gap. 1229 has a 15 show gap. Average gap. Excuse me, 1230 has a 22 and a half average gap. And 1231 has an 11 has a 12 show gap. So it's kind of clear that from a set listing standpoint they went a little bit more kind of loose and varied on the 28th and 30th, whereas the 29th and 31st are a little bit more conservative, a little bit more rotational songs. And if you look at 1228, you get poor heart first in 69 shows, round room first in 322 shows, fuck your face first in 74 shows, 1230 lengthwise, first in 194 shows, winter queen, the first in 80 shows and seven below the first in 81 shows. And then on 1229 and 1231 you just get two notable bust outs you get. And they're both in the encore. You get both. Old is Love as the solo encore, first in 149 shows on 1229 and Ikyulys first in 77 shows on 1231. And I almost wonder if like I doubt this was anything planned, but I just, you know, thinking about this from a trend standpoint, you're always going to get. Well, runs are going to kind of go one of two ways. You're either going to get like a ton of rotational songs and most of like what the band is currently enjoying playing. And then the test is whether or not it's really interesting within those songs or you're going to get these rarities and a little bit more of a looseness. And we kind of got the latter here. We got a little bit more looseness on two nights of this run and a little bit more structure and kind of rotational approach on two nights of this run. I don't know if it's necessarily a coincidence that the Knights that were a little bit more structured and a little bit more focused on the rotation tended to be the stronger Knights. I don't know if that had anything to do with that. What do you guys think?

[Megan]

I was definitely thinking about that because I was looking at these at the. The rarities, too, and I heard, like, that was my first Bold is Love. That was my first lengthwise, which is a rift girl. I was excited about that. And a lot of these songs I haven't heard in, like, 10 years, like, winter queen or seven below. But I totally think that these songs can often fuck up a set. I think putting them in the encore is the perfect way to go. Like, thinking about, like, Bold is Love coming out and, like, just crushing that and having that be your one standalone encore is how you know it's not going to mess up a set if you're not kind of, like, connecting when you're playing it. Because, yeah, if you haven't played a song in 10 years or seven years or four years or five years, it. It's a. It's hard to do it and still be in the zone. And I think that. I feel like those shows both suffered from that. I think that's a really good point.

[Brian]

Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate that. That's good perspective, Brian. Well, okay, Megan, what do you have to say about 12:30? Because we have to talk about 12:31, but.

[Megan]

Well, I had a lot of fun on 12:30. I had a really, really good time. I love to be on the floor on 1230, and 24 hours before that, I did not have a floor ticket, and I was fine with that. I was okay with that. My friend Nina and I were like, it's fine. We're just gonna, like, be in these great seats. And then a Fishmas miracle happened, and someone wanted to trade for floors. And none of the other friends that we're usually on the floor with had floor tickets either. And then as the 30th went on, everybody got them one by one, and we all, five minutes before the show started, were in a spot, like, 30 people back from Mike. And we were just like. We just manifested it, and it just felt so great. And the vibes were just through the roof. And when they opened with Possum, you know, not my favorite song, but they really allowed the build to drag out and the energy on the floor of msg. That is the reason why I want to be there on 1230. It is so electric. It is just. It feels like you're in sedona like, you're in this energy vortex. And I really felt that during that possum, and I was like, let's go. Like, it was just so exciting. And so I had a great time that show. You know, there's some really nice soloing in the Wolfman's, like, really energetic build. Trey sounds great, but this show just. None of the jams really, like, went anywhere for me. I feel like the Downwind Disease was great to dance to in the room, but to me on Relisten, it just sounds like one kind of long, extended groove. And I think that that is something that happened a few times during this run. I think the Tweezer is really similar. Like, it has this really strong funk jam in the launch of it, and it's really tight, and Paige is, like, working hard to make it interesting. But again, it just kind of is this, like, extended groove. And, yeah, you've got some cool rarities in that set. But I just felt like the show never really. It never really had, like, a good kind of something to grab onto. For me.

[RJ]

I think that's fair. I mean, I thought this was a much tighter show than 1228, but, yes.

[Megan]

I agree with that.

[RJ]

I was talking to a friend about this. Like, 12:30 is. It's such a significant date in Fish history. You know, it's. It's this. It's a Halloween show. It's a festival gig. Like, this is just when you go through the history of this band, like, how many 1230s there are that have defined a year or, you know, are the reason why certain people listen to this band or were the shows that, like, meant more, you know, in the room or mean more on the table? Like, it's just a very special date in this band's history. The idea of hitting everything the night before you're supposed to is a, like, very deep seated theme about why this band has been successful in the way that they have and unsuccessful in other ways. And so, like, a tight first set with good classic songs isn't going to totally do it in my. In my. In my estimation. And that's okay. That happens not every 12. You know, we had a really. The Wild Run where 12:30, 2016, 17, 18, 19, were all perhaps the best show of that year, if not one of the best shows that year. And it became kind of an expectation. 12:30, 22 is a really great show as well. The last two years, we've kind of had what you're describing, Meg, where, like, good songs are played. The band sounds tight, like, they sound energized, but like, there's not that. There's not that jam to anchor on tour. There's not that moment within the show to really say, like, this shifted the tide and then it became something more. I don't know, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm having too many expectations around a specific date, but, like, this is just kind of the way it seems to go with this date and this band.

[Megan]

But do you think that that's like, you know, I feel like they're suffering a little bit from the curse of the overachiever with this night. And it feels like 1229, they just like, aren't as. Like they're a little bit looser and end up playing better shows the last two years, at least.

[RJ]

Yeah. And I mean, this run reminded me in that sort of sense of 2013 from a structural standpoint where, you know, you had a lot of hype going into the 2013 New Year's Eve run. The band had just played this stunning fall tour, introduced all these new songs, and they kind of came out and they. They were a Little Flat on 1228, 1229 that year for people who remember, like, that is the show of that New Year's Eve run. Amazing. First that doesn't really go too crazy, but like just really, really great versions of great songs. And then you have the disease into Carini. You get like a waves and a bowie in there. It's just really well structured show before disease. They're kind of messing around and Trey jokes around. Thank you. We wrote that. It's like the moment. It's the crowd that like, hey, we are just playing originals here. Hope you guys are picking up on that. No covers this run. And then, you know, you had a 1230 that year that kind of had the same sort of like up and down arc to. It has a really good chalk dust torture. But like, overall that's not a strong show compared to the. To the 29th. So maybe that is part of it, maybe the pressure of the 30th. But I. Yeah, I kind of always feel like the band walks. Like my perspective is they walk into the 30th knowing we've got all this stuff to think about tomorrow night. So let's just play a show tonight.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

And that's where the magic comes out of. But maybe that's starting to seep in. Who knows?

[Brian]

Well, Brian, maybe we could get your anxiety going a little bit here and just say that, you know, that's the. There's 60, you know, so like maybe, maybe two out of four shows is, you know, maybe that's the appropriate number of awesomeness, you know? Know.

[Megan]

But this year hasn't been like that.

[RJ]

Yeah, I saw eight shows. Seven were outstanding.

[Brian]

Depends how you look at it. I think people have different perspectives on it. I'm just saying I saw Brian amped up.

[Megan]

I know I saw 10 shows this year. I saw two Mohegan, two in Grand Rapids, four in Mondegreen and two at MSG. And I think the first night of Mohegan I loved, first night of Grand Rapids was cool. And then the first night of Mondegreen was amazing. And the whole Mond Green experience was cool. And then 1229 was probably the best show I saw all year. I mean, that and the first night of Mondegreen. Yeah, definitely close. And there might be some recency bias with that, but I mean, I had an amazing year of fish. Like, I had more fun at any of these shows than I. I could have ever imagined. But I definitely think re listen value and thinking about them analytically. I did not see like, you know, a majority of the shows I saw were not phenomenal this year. I did not have Brian Brinkman luck this year with fish.

[RJ]

I typically don't have Brian Brinkman 2024 luck. So, like, this is not. I'm not, I'm not going to be boasting about this. My expectation in 2025 is to walk away being like, yeah, it was good.

[Megan]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Brian]

Okay, so guys, let's talk about New Year's Eve. We have a three set show, as usual. What? Besides the, the kind of, you know, third set. I don't like calling it a gag. It doesn't. It's not.

[Megan]

I know. I hate that. It's so disrespectful.

[Brian]

Like. Yeah, there's nothing really funny about it. About it. There's nothing. It's not like a joke, it's not a trick. It's just like a thing. It's production.

[Megan]

It's a production.

[Brian]

Besides the third set production, what else? It's a performance.

[Megan]

Beautiful performance, dramatic performance. There were some really great. There were some good jams in this show. Beyond that, that set, I think, which is cool. I think the stash was awesome. Really, really great. Split open him out was incredible. You know, really good. They sounded really connected and really tight the whole time. It's cool to have this bouncing around the room that hasn't been in the middle of Mike's song and Mike's groove, like since 2016, which is pretty cool. And The My friend, my friend jam, I just re listened to that again this morning. That's really, really cool. Really good. And that into sand. And then that golden age gets so beautiful at the end. Like, the end of the jam of Golden Age is one of my favorite moments of the whole show. It's so pretty. Into that really cool segue into what's the use. That's a great set, that second set. This show is awesome. I think.

[RJ]

Yeah, I think that the show hits all kind of the markers that you want for a New Year's Eve show. Set one is classic. Never really goes too far beyond kind of the barriers. You know, these are shorter set times than what we're going to get on the other nights. But that first set reminded me a lot of, again, kind of a throwback to 2013, where outside of evolve and number line, everything here is pretty. And Karini, I guess, like, that's, you know, 1.0 songs still. Like, all. All these are really classic, early 1.0 songs. These are. This is classic fish terrain. And I think it was cool that they reserved some of these songs or, you know, didn't play them and then got to a point on New Year's Eve where this could just be the focus of the first set. I agree with you. I think that my friend. My friend through what's the you segment is up there. It's that the Ruby Waves, the downward Disease is kind of the. The three big tent pole jams, aside from the third set here of New Year's Eve, just really great fluidity. Kind of a good example of, like, sometimes it is the right time to cut off a jam and move into a new song and have the ideas of the previous jam kind of carry over. And you got that. Where, like, my friend, My friend died down sand emerge similar to the Dick's version where it just gets kind of spacey and super weird while staying within sand. Golden Age, as you mentioned, Meg fades to almost nothing before going into what's the use? Just very thematic stuff. Really, really worked out. And then the third set, I guess we'll get into this. But like, I thought the musical risk that they took was really, really cool. I think framing New Year's Eve around two of their best new songs in Pillow jets and what's going through your mind showcases everything we've been talking about that there's just no quit. There's no finish line here. They're just going to continue moving forward. Pillow jets getting that, you know, art production treatment to it. It's kind of A regal song in and of itself. And I think that it's telling that one of the first versions to really connect with people was the Sphere version that has perhaps, aside from what they did with taste, my favorite visuals of the entire Sphere run, that kind of like lunar forest landscape and like the fireworks that were going off, it just fit the song really well. I mean, I texted you guys this, like, I think it's so cool. I saw what I think was the debut of Pillow jets at the Trey Trio run back in spring of 2023. And that whole run was filled with new songs just like over and over and over again. And some of those songs have stuck, some of them haven't. And the ones that have stuck. It's just wild to think that like he debuted all these songs to 3,000 people in, you know, suburban Denver and they're now feature in the New Year's run. Like, what is a song that Trey is going to debut this spring that in 2027 we're going to be like, holy crap. That version of that song. Like they just. He just keeps churning it out.

[Megan]

Yeah. I thought the. The whole New Year's set was absolutely amazing. I think that the risk it takes to take a style of music you've never played before and use one of your new songs and incorporate that, it's just so bold and hard to do. And the whole entire set that the section from after what's going through your mind, it's so self referential in like the best Fish way. You know, they're throwing all these lyrics from these classic Fish songs from different eras and layering them on top of each other. And just to see this band of these older men playing really kind of forward facing music. I think it's interesting to think of how electronic dance music evolved while Phish was evolving too because there's such an overlap. There's such a Venn diagram of us that were 19 in 1997 and 20 and going to raves, but also going to see Fish. And I've always kind of wanted to know what that marriage would be like. And it was just so cool to hear them take that music on and take that risk. I think that was super powerful and how fun for New Year's Eve just to have this insane dance party. I think Fish has gotten so good at this recently. So good at making things super fun, but also interesting and intellectual and being able to play something that pulls from a different era but is also so them and make it their own. It's always been their kind of magic, magic way of being. And I thought they really did that to a T. And I'm sad I wasn't in the room because it looked just like an incredible production. It looked so fun. I thought the screens that Kuroda had over the top of msg, I don't know how he had there was like rectangular like television looking screens like all over the back and all over the top. And he was projecting like flashing lights and then they had those huge billows and the coils and to me it was absolutely beautiful and with that giant like trippy face that was coming together and coming apart. And I thought the whole thing was just really well done and I was impressed. And it looked not only like a really interesting gag but also just so much fun in the room. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he.

[RJ]

Loved calculating his return on ad spend.

[Megan]

My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[Brian]

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[RJ]

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[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, I think I talked to a few people yesterday who were there just to kind of get the sense from. I don't know. When I heard it, I was like, this is great. I wish it was like 40 minutes instead of 17 minutes because I think it could have gone into different themes and really like followed the path of a real kind of like DJ set, you know, where you're like, that would have been sick, slows down and speeds up and different, you know. And I, I guess several people that I heard from did not like it. Which I just think is a funny thing about fish. Like what are you like, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. It's like a one time thing on New Year's Eve and you're going to be like sad. It just, just like.

[Megan]

Well, there was one comment, rj, that like someone was saying that like, this was the first time they commented on my, on my recap review on net. And we're saying this is the first time they didn't make all their own music. And like, how dare they? And it's, it's like, you don't have to question if fish can make their own music. Like, fuck, like they've been doing it for 41 years. Like, this is them trying something out on top of their music. Like, it's not like they, they. We know that what they can and can't do. So that was really interesting to me again. But yeah, I didn't realize it was so polarizing.

[RJ]

It's also not true. Like the last seven minutes of the 12:31 performance where they were. 2015 performance where they were in the hourglass playing no man in no man's land links up with a recording that allows them to escape down a hatch and get onto the stage. Like, this isn't. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's like a, that's like a get off my lawn type of argument. And I think, I think that like the, the opposition to it, like EDM may not be your thing. It's not really my thing. Like I, I like a little bit more risk and chance in music and not knowing, like, oh, here we go, we're rising up and here comes the peak and everyone's gonna peak at the same time. Like, that's just not my thing. But I thought it was so fascinating that Phish incorporated that into their sound. Based on what I said earlier, that like they have gone after so many styles of music and now to say, hey, look around. The festival thing that we were playing in the late 90s and early 2000s has exploded into electronic dance music. Look at the sphere. Like there was a huge, huge crowd for the sphere for these EDM shows over New Year's Eve. Like, like it or not, it's a part of the counterculture and it is a part of, you know, musical expression in the 21st century. And like you said, RJ, I don't foresee this ever becoming the new sound of Fish. Like they played two jam songs after what's going through your Mind, Chalk Dust and Life Saving Gun and neither one of them went back into the type of playing that they did during what's going through your mind. Which. Which I was honestly slightly disappointed about. I thought it'd be cool to have that filter in through the remainder of the set, which I think you guys are saying as well. But it kind of shows like, it was a one time thing. Let's try this out. Let's have a lot of fun. It's 17 minutes and I think it's one of the. I think it's a great accomplishment for the band that they were able to do that and do it as well.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

That drop into chalk dust. Oh, my God. Tension and release up and it's like. It just pulls. It's so like dance music moment. And then they just exploded. It chalked us, like, honestly, even from the couch, like, my heart just exploded. I was like, yes. Like, they're so good at that tension and release. And to hear it drop into chalk just like that. Incredible. Yeah. The life longer it should have done for that. Yeah. And who's. Aren't you all surprised that, like Faceplant, Interact didn't make it into any of these quotes? How soon? I just was so surprised.

[Brian]

That was next time.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly. I was like, why didn't we hear.

[Brian]

That summer 2025 will be only this. Yep. It's going to be great.

[Megan]

New audience screaming like. Like DJ Daddy over the top.

[RJ]

None of us can get tickets to Fish shows. We're like, what the hell is going on? Why are we. Why. Why is this actually happening the way that it is? Why. Why can't we get in?

[Megan]

Exactly. I also. Brian, can I address something that's in the chat here?

[RJ]

Yeah, please.

[Megan]

Okay. So someone was saying that if I am upset about Mondegreen and some of these MSG shows, that I probably should think about if I should be seeing this band anymore. And I just want to say that if you ever see me at a fish show. Brian's never been at a fish show with me. But a lot of people, RJ has and a lot of my friends have and anybody else that sees me, I am having the best time. Like the number one best time I'm having it. I reserve the right to go back and think about this music analytically after and think about how it compares to the other music they've played and if I would listen back to it. And that's what I'm referring to. So just wanted to clear that up.

[RJ]

I mean, I think, and I've thought this since I became a Fish fan, that telling other people how they should enjoy this band and interpret this band is pretty pathetic. And Offensive?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

I think the best part about this band is that they can play a single jam and you could have endless conversations with people about their take on it. It's like, for me, it's like watching really good movies or reading really good books. A really good book could happen that you don't enjoy, and that's not a sense that there's something wrong with you as a reader. You could watch a really good movie that wins a ton of aw, gets a ton of acclaim, makes all this money, and it just doesn't hit with you. And to me, the interesting place is, well, why. Why did that hit you? Why did that not hit you? And I think with Fish, there's a. There's this, like, protectiveness that, like, because I had a great time, everyone else had to have as great of a time, and if they didn't, it's not that there were multiple ways to interpret this event. It's that there's something wrong with you. I think that that belittles the overall conversation around music. I think that belittles the conversation around this band and the impact of this band. Because the reality is, like, man, some of the most fun I've ever had at a Fish show is during, like, a random character zero that just, like, hits really well in. In the, you know, encore. And I just, like, play air guitar, and I'm having the greatest time. Am I going to go back and listen to that? No. Like, whatever. So, yeah, I guess I. To your point, I think that you. You having the more complicated experiences that you had at Mondegreen, at an msg, is your experience, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I. I think that. I don't know. I don't necessari. That we should be in the practice of telling people how to enjoy themselves.

[Megan]

Yeah. Also, I just want to add that, as I've definitely gotten more critical from being on this podcast, like, it's made me think deeper about the band, but it's. That's also led to deeper enjoyment.

[RJ]

Yes. Yeah. I think that thinking about a challenging show for you personally or where the band is at, often, for me, at least, my feeling is always. That deepens my appreciation, my love for them. I went through a period in 2022 where I was like, I don't know if I'm. To really be listening to this band much more. I. I would find that summer tour to be really interesting. I saw seven shows in a row that I thought fell in various levels of flatness and didn't show, like, a lot of deep seated creativity that I'd seen a year prior. And by the following spring, I was all back on board. And then have spent a lot of the time, you know, over the last two years kind of wondering, was it me, Was it them? What was going on? You know, having that conversation, I think, is really, really interesting. That brings up a quick game I want to play here at the end of our episode. I've been thinking about the metaphor for this New Year's run and New Year's runs in general as kind of like, you know, punctuation at the end of a sentence. And this comes in kind of like four forms. As I think about it. Like, you can have a period where, like, this ends a place in the band's history. A comma which kind of bridges us. An exclamation point, like, holy, that happened. Or a question mark, like, what is going on? Where's the band going? What would you put this run as a period, a comma, an exclamation point, or a question mark?

[Megan]

Well, it's really funny because I think that night, the last, like the, the celebration, the third set of New Year's Eve, kind of stands out because.

[RJ]

Okay.

[Megan]

If you took that set outside of it, I would say it's a period. I think that set was so celebratory and exciting that it was an exclamation point. Interesting, because I do think that, that to end a really strong year of Fish in a year that people maybe didn't expect it to be so strong, it's an even year. 2023 was a good year. Fish. This was a really thrilling year of Fish. And I think if they, if the, that last set hadn't been as kind of celebratory and exciting and to me, really groundbreaking in terms of, of risk taking, I think it, it would have been a period, but I think that puts it over the top for an exclamation point for me. What do you think?

[RJ]

Interesting. No, it's a good, it's a good. I, I, I, I kind of define this. I have this run as like a comma in my mind because, okay, I kind of think similar where, whereas 2022 and 23 were about like, fish embracing their past and, and, you know, in, in the New Year's sense. And those two runs to me felt like in various ways, like big moments of the band really looking back and saying, like, who are we? What have we accomplished? Like, how do we celebrate ourselves at this, you know, at the end of, you know, our third day or fourth decade to Me, this felt like we're seeing fish fishes playing shows in three weeks, four weeks at this point in time. So like really quickly we're going to get whatever 2025 is going to sound like. And then, you know, there's all these rumors of, of a spring run and then, you know, summer tour is going to obviously happen and we'll be right back at this place a year from now. Me, unless something drastically changes in the early parts of 2025. It kind of just feels like we're just continuing with this current approach of the. The formula really seems to work. The jamming is really good. You know, up and down shows can be bookended by really strong shows, as we saw throughout this run. Can I run really quickly through my list of New Year's Eve runs and can you tell me if you agree or disagree? Just like give me like a rapid fire.

[Megan]

Okay.

[RJ]

All right, so I'm going back to 93 because that's kind of like the first big New Year's run. Yeah, anything before that is, you know, smaller growth.

[Megan]

Okay, wait, hold on. I want to tell you, I want you to just go and I'm going to only stop you if I disagree.

[RJ]

Okay, so 93 to 95. Those are all exclamation points in my mind.

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

You know you've got the Worcester Aquarium show, first show at MSG in 94. Providence Bowie. 95 up, obviously. 96. This is kind of a question mark. Where are we going? What is the band at the end of 96?

[Megan]

We don't question mark.

[RJ]

97 and 99. This is an exclamation point again. We got the three night run at MSG. 1230. 97, my personal favorite show. 98, first four night run at MSG. Those are four really strong shows. Super underrated in a lot of ways, but really, really strong shows. Maybe the best non 99 or 95 New Year's show we've ever had. And then 99, obviously big Cypress. Oh two, there's a bit of a question mark. They're back. But we don't really know what's going to happen. Oh three felt like a comma at the time and it kind of feels like a comma now because the things that were getting dark at the end of O3 spill over into what our caller talked about at the end of. Of 2.0 that. That 10 month car crash I think is what he called it. Then we jump into 3.009. I think this is a period. This just ends the year. We done. We did One year back, there were a lot of people at the time that wondered, are they actually going to play in 2010? Is this just kind of like a reunion of sorts? A lot of bands are doing just reunion tours. Is that what this is? It felt like a period on them coming back, and then they said during the show that they were going to come back, which was cool. 2010, comma, we're slowly regaining 3.0. We're still slowly regaining his band. 2011, we're back to a question mark. We have no idea what is actually happening as Fish right now. This is. This is a troubling time. I remember thinking they were going to break up after 2011. It was so, so bleak. 2012, this is the period on the end of the start, the climb back in 3.0, 2013, we get our first exclamation point six since the late 1990s. Huge, huge year. Huge run for the band to close out the jump truck set. Very nostalgic, really rich. That 1229 show, 14 to 16, these are kind of commas. This is a period where the band's playing very tight. The jamming is starting to come back, but no, like, real significant changes outside of Magna Ball. 17 to 18, these are exclamation points. These are killer New Year's Eve runs. Tie up the year in a really strong way. Way. You know, that 2018, 1230 show, I don't hear a lot about it as much anymore, but there's so much in that show. From a rarity standpoint, from a jamming standpoint.

[Megan]

2017, my mind that 2018, like, that 12:30 show. I was there, it blew my mind.

[RJ]

Yeah. I mean, I think that has a. Has an argument for the best show. 3.0. Oh, my God. Just endless. Yeah. 2019, this is a period on 3.0. We may not have known it at the time, but this feels like the end of an era. Maybe an ellipse because we had the. Or maybe a semicolon, and then Mexico. 2020 is our period, but this kind of feels like the closing of a chapter. Trey being up on that platform, not being able to come down. The Clones gag kind of felt more like a gag than a performance. It was just kind of. It was there. And it felt to me, especially in hindsight, that Fish was in need of some sort of a change and maybe a break, and the COVID break was really beneficial for them. But then wrapping things up here, 22 and 23, I would have those both as huge exclamation points. I'm not counting 2021 because you know that that didn't happen. But 22 to 23 huge exclamation points. At the end of years, we needed a big New Year's run. At the end of 2022, 2023 New Year's run, we had an incredible 1229. A really that goes down as one of the strongest shows ever. Some people broke fish.net rankings by rating it as the best show ever. Over and over and over again. And then this year, again, I'd return to it. I think that this is a comma. I don't know exactly where we're going. Maybe I will change this. I reserve the right to change this in the next couple of years as we get more perspective. But right now it doesn't necessarily feel like a huge celebration of everything that happened in 2024. It feels more like, like. And this is the best thing I can say about this run. The band's in a really good place where they can test some things out. Some of those things work. Some of those things don't work. The things that work work really well. The things that don't work. It's not as stressful as it was in years past. There, I'm using that word again where you felt like, oh man, what's the direction of this band like? We're just. We're just playing, man.

[Megan]

I 100% agree. I think it's your. If you go to a 4 show, this show run now, you are bound to hear something that's going to blow your mind. Like you're definitely going to. Whether it's once or four times or six times, you're going to hear something unbelievable. And I think it does. It does make me less anxious now.

[RJ]

I think that that's it. If you're going to a four night run, you know you're going to get that. And I would even say like, like even, you know, the Mohegan and Grand Rapids runs that you saw over the summer, like there's still really, really sick moments in all.

[Megan]

Oh yeah. Mohegan is a great show. I think it's underrated.

[RJ]

Awesome second set.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

The Ruby waves in 86 is really, really strong. If that's your strongest non Billy Sit in jam. Like, I think you're in a really good spot there. That definitely made my overall list. I still think the moma dance is really strong as well. A little bit of a, you know, unique risk there. But, um, yeah, I mean I think that no matter what you. If you're going to Go see a couple of shows from this band right now. It's a different place than it was in the mid 2010s, where you were kind of, like, rolling the dice. And if something came together, who awesome if it didn't, well, it was just a great time at a Fish show.

[Megan]

Yeah. And I think those expectations, you know, they. They affect some of us because we do now expect them to be outstanding all the time. And they are, you know, a good half the time, I think, which is pretty good odds. It's better than in baseball. Right. Is a 50% batting average good?

[RJ]

If you had a.500 batting average, you're in, like, you're an elite, elite territory. There's. There's a reason why people chase going. 400 in a year. 3. 350 is. Is outstanding. Like, we're in a really good zone with this band right now. All right, any final closing thoughts that you have of. Of the New Year's eve run of fish 2024 before we close out and prepare for our draft? I guess about 2024 fish, so we don't have to close everything out.

[Megan]

Yeah, I'm excited that I get to kind of reflect on and spend this next week listening to the best jams of the year and thinking about them. And it's been a phenomenal year, and I'm excited that we get to kind of memorialize it with our draft next week, which I think we're doing on what, Wednesday? Is that when we decided?

[RJ]

Okay, so we will be back on Wednesday afternoon where we'll be drafting our favorite shows from 2024. We will have these in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 categories here. The biggest of all is the summer tour. That is 719 through 8 11. But then everything else is a three or four show category. So there's gonna be a lot of competition. Couple of these. Sam Tinberg jumps in with 8:30. 2024. That is a. That is a great show, Sam. That is an outstanding performance.

[Megan]

We'll see who picks up. One of my highlights of this New Year's Eve run was getting to spend a little time with Sam. Timber.

[RJ]

Sam is the best person to see a show with, bar none. He's my favorite person. Keeps me in check and keeps me out of check at the same time. But we'll be back to do that. That will be kind of our. Our close out to 2024 fish. There will be a bunch of analysis, some competition. We'll see if Megan loses her crown so soon after. Some would say winning it for the 25 minute jam draft. And then just as kind of a reminder of the way someone say, I.

[Megan]

Like how you slip that in. Yeah, I did win. Votes don't lie, Brian, you love democracy. Come on.

[RJ]

I do, I do. I have to. I have to accept my. My loss. And I have to. I have to reassess what the people are looking for here and if what I want is right for the people. Because that's the thing, sometimes the people don't totally know what they need. You think back to the 1780s and the people that were thinking that, you know, we needed more states rights and we needed the states to win out. But, you know, you had James Madison saying, we need a strong federalist system. You see, the European powers are going to invade. They're going to break us up. And if they break us up, this whole thing doesn't exist the way that it does. And we can pick nits. But, like, I know we all want this whole thing. We want the safety and security, all right? We just. You have to admit that. So sometimes you have to go against what the people want. Meg. Sometimes democracy is not the best manner of judging who won or lost. But I digress. Just as a reminder, January, February, March, we're going to be doing kind of a throwback here year. We're going to be doing kind of some random shows. It'll be really fun to kind of just dive back into single shows. We got a bunch cooking for the remainder of the year that we will announce here shortly. But we're excited to see you guys next Wednesday. And then. And on and on and on and on and on. This will never stop. We won't stop. Even if the band stops, they can't stop us. We won't.

[Megan]

This is fun. Everybody, everybody.

[RJ]

Yes. This was great. You guys have a great start to your 2025. Have a wonderful first weekend of the year. We will see you guys next Wednesday, everyone.

[Megan]

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[RJ]

And this is Justin Press.

[Brian]

We're the host of Making Waves, the Shiprock podcast, a part of the Sound Talent Media Podcast Network. We're inviting you to sail away with us on an epic journey in musical enlightenment. Every week we bring you only the best artists in rock music and discuss everything from the cruise to the stage to the saga of being a professional recording artist. We'll have lots of special guests along with way, so tune in every week. Your stateroom is available every Monday morning, so welcome aboard.