Mt. Rushmore: Crosseyed & Painless

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Mt. Rushmore: Crosseyed & Painless"

Helping Friendly Podcast – Osiris Media
Date: October 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the HFPod crew—RJ, Brian, and Megan—dive deep into Phish’s long relationship with the Talking Heads classic “Crosseyed and Painless.” This is part of their ongoing “Mount Rushmore” series, where they curate and debate the four greatest versions of specific Phish songs. The conversation explores not just statistics and setlist history, but the song’s musical and contextual significance, the way it shaped Phish’s evolution post-1996, and its ongoing impact on live performances. The hosts bring warmth, humor, and fan-focused insight, balancing nerd-level details with accessible enthusiasm.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Early Vibes: Nature, Books, and Apples (00:48–06:59)

• The show opens with autumnal small talk (weather, trees, invasive species), segueing into a brief plug for their book podcast and recent listener reviews.
• Megan shares an anecdote about harvesting apples, tying it back to themes from the recommended novel "North Woods."
• Shout-outs to fans and mentions of other Osiris podcasts create a sense of community and cross-podcast camaraderie.

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2. Introduction to "Crosseyed & Painless" and Its Place in Phish History (07:00–15:09)

• Megan’s Historical Deep Dive:
  • "Crosseyed & Painless" debuted as Phish’s Halloween 1996 "musical costume," covering Talking Heads’ "Remain in Light."
  • The debut featured guests (Carl Perazzo on drums, Dave Grippo and Gary Gazaway on horns), setting a new musical direction for the band.
  • Its legacy: Although the first jams were powerful, Phish initially shelved the song for long stretches but brought it back at pivotal moments (e.g., Big Cypress 2000, Jam Night at the Baker’s Dozen).
  • Statistical standout: 72 performances to date; nearly half feature extended jams—a remarkably high percentage for a Phish song.

Quote
"This song's been played 72 times... it has 34 entries on the jam chart and that's a 47% chance of jamming. And I looked through all our Mount Rushmores and that is the highest we've discussed."
—Megan (09:09)

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3. The Song’s Impact & Evolution (15:10–21:38)

• Why was it missing from late '90s setlists?
  • Brian & Megan speculate that Phish internalized the "Crosseyed" groove; it influenced their entire approach to improvisation, even when they weren’t playing the actual song.
  • The groove and feel of "Crosseyed" became a jamming template—so much so that they didn’t need to play it outright.
• Comparison to "Ghost": Both songs serve as vehicles for new directions, but "Ghost" is an original, so they play it more often.

Notable Exchange
"Rather than play the song, they kind of just seem to find themselves in a Crosseyed space… Why would we play it if we're already using the best parts of this song?"
—Brian (17:08)

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4. Mount Rushmore Selection Process & Criteria (21:39–24:17)

• The 12 greatest versions were curated from all eras—a unanimous process, with more agreement than debate.
• The central question: Which versions truly shaped or exemplified “Crosseyed & Painless” in Phish’s canon?

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Detailed "Rushmore" Breakdown: The Four Greatest Versions

1. 10/31/96 – Debut, Halloween “Remain in Light” (24:18–28:34)

• Why It’s Essential:
  • Contextually transformative—arguably the most impactful Phish debut ever.
  • The only "Crosseyed" with horns; high-energy, jagged, and frenetic.
  • The groove, the call-and-response vocals, and the immediate audience response signaled a new Phish era.
• Musical Analysis:
  • Fast, wild, tight ensemble work.
  • Ends with a raucous Fishman drum breakdown and crowd eruption.
• Historical Stakes:
  • Halloween ‘96 marked a before-and-after for Phish’s sound and setlist logic.

Quote
"This version is the strongest shot of them all. It's so infectious... the set is always changed when there's a Crosseyed and Painless played."
—Megan (24:03)

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2. 11/2/96 – Coral Sky, FL, "First True Jam" (29:39–37:33)

• Context:
  • Only a few days after the debut, again with Perazzo on drums.
  • Chosen as the top jam from a year not known for classic shows.
• Musical Highlights:
  • Trey steps into the horn’s old role with a fiery solo.
  • Funky, dense, and exploratory—a prototype for 1997’s style.
  • Never loses propulsion; combines energy, groove, and contrast between structure and space.
• Host Reaction:
  • All agree: This is the pivotal transitional jam, showing the new “hive mind” Phish at work.

Quote
"In this version, you hear 1997 jamming reveal itself. It's layers of textures over a funk groove. Mike super out front... and then at 14 minutes in, it just goes completely off the rails, but it still never loses that propulsive nature."
—Megan (31:43)

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3. 7/29/03 – Burgettstown, PA, "2.0 Exploration" (43:26–51:43)

• Why It Stands Out:
  • The defining 2.0 version: dark, gritty, and intensely focused.
  • Near-perfect group improvisation; no wasted notes.
  • Showcases the band’s willingness to let jams decompose and rebuild.
• Musical Journey:
  • Drops from thick funk into minimalism, then iterates through layers of tension, release, and questing.
  • Fishman’s drumming and Trey’s melodic nudges carry the band through shadowy and then luminous territory.

Quote
"I've gotten to the point where like I can't listen to this jam regularly. I just need to like be able to sit with it in the moment. This is my Phish musical version of the movie Goodfellas in that it can do no wrong."
—Brian (43:41)

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4. 7/25/17 – Jam Night, Baker’s Dozen (56:44–63:07)

• Highlight:
  • The modern “peak jam” – 33 minutes of exploratory bliss during the most celebrated run of Phish’s 3.0/4.0 era.
• Musical Hallmarks:
  • Patient, melodic ascent ("a long walk up a mountain"); textural layers build suspense.
  • Multiple “peaks” and ambient valleys; the band seems intent on maximizing the jam due to Jam Night’s theme.
  • Emotional, ethereal, with a sense of openness and possibility.
• Legacy:
  • Reconfirmed Phish’s power to surprise—even seasoned fans saw this as a revival of extended jamming for any song, not just “Tweezer.”

Quote
"You can tell that if it wasn't Jam-Filled Night, after that first little peak it probably would have segued into something else. But they knew they were pushing it this night, and I'm glad they did."
—RJ (58:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I'm proud to have this [10/31/96] be our number one... I think it might be [the best debut ever]. I don't know. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, but I. It's hard to think of a more powerful debut that had bigger impact.”
  —Brian & Megan (28:02)
• “This jam is amazing... You cannot pin this jam really down to an era, which is kind of how fall '96 feels overall.”
  —Brian (34:11)
• “I don't think we— I don't see anything else we could have done here. There's some excellent versions from the last couple of years... but when you think musically, you listen to this and it sounds like modern Phish. As opposed to some of the 20 to 25 minute jams of summer 2017, this has that sort of abstract ‘any ideas possible’ [feeling].”
  —Brian (59:21)
• “Not only do you get... this [Jam Night] which is the first 30-minute jam since the Tahoe ‘Tweezer’ at the time... but you get this sense: any song can have this opportunity to jam.”
  —Brian (60:43)
• “We did it. I'm happy that it's here. I hope everyone out there takes a second to listen to it and recognize its great because it just deserves everyone's ears all over again.”
  —Brian (51:43)

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Lightning Round: Honorable Mentions (64:28–67:49)

• 12/31/99 – Big Cypress: Iconic bust-out, but less focused compared to the others.
• 8/3/12 – Bill Graham "Crosseyed sandwich" set (noted for broader set exploration).
• 7/10/13 – Holmdel, NJ: Noted for Trey/Paige’s chordal interplay.
• 10/17/14 – Eugene, OR: Haunting, My Bloody Valentine-esque coda.
• 9/14/16 – Dick’s: Personal favorite for Megan, explosive energy.
• Several others from 2009–2024 praised for exploratory jamming or unique setlist context.

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Interactive & Fan Engagement Notes

• Fans in the live chat speculated on “Mount Rushmore” choices and discussed the merits of debut vs. Big Cypress versions; the hosts acknowledged fan voting mirrored their picks closely.
• Listener phone line re-announced: 484-416-0488 for calls and messages.

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Upcoming HFPod Plans (67:49–end)

• Announced next episode: A draft of the “Top 25 Phish Shows of the 21st Century,” with a custom format and listener involvement encouraged.
• Playful banter about draft formats and Phish community quirks.
• Renewed appeals for listener feedback and reviews.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro/Atmosphere: 00:48–06:59
• Context & History: 07:00–15:09
• Song’s Impact & Evolution: 15:10–21:38
• Selection Process & Criteria: 21:39–24:17
• Debut (10/31/96): 24:18–28:34
• Coral Sky (11/02/96): 29:39–37:33
• Burgettstown (07/29/03): 43:26–51:43
• Jam Night (07/25/17): 56:44–63:07
• Honorable Mentions: 64:28–67:49
• Closing & Next Week Preview: 67:49–end

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Conclusion

This episode provides an in-depth, contextually rich, and highly musical examination of how “Crosseyed and Painless” shaped—and continues to shape—Phish’s improvisational language and meaning for both band and fans. The Mount Rushmore selections reflect not only musical peaks but also the story of Phish’s ongoing evolution. The lively, collaborative tone means even newer fans will find both entry points and plenty of wisdom into why this Talking Heads cover means so much to the community today.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Cyrus.

[C]

So ready.

[D]

Oh, so ready. Still waiting to go.

[C]

Still waiting. Still waiting to go live. But not anymore. Because now we are live. This is hfpod. We're here. We're with Brian and Megan. Brian is wearing his lumberjack shirt. Megan's wearing her sweater. Even though it's only October, you guys look like it's like mid January here.

[B]

First of all, it's cold here.

[D]

This is a short sleeve sweater.

[C]

Okay. Well, how would I have known that before?

[D]

And I'm in the mountains. It's like 40, 45 degrees out and rainy here. It's super vibey today, actually. Really into it.

[C]

Good.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

What about you, Brian? What's your excuse?

[B]

It's windy and fall and a little chilly and great here. I mean, it's. This is the best time of the year. Yeah, it's sunny but cold. The leaves are golden. My ash tree out front is at the stage of the year where it's like 16 different colors. We treat that thing every other year because there is a beetle in this area that is killing these ash trees. And so we inject it with this defense mechanism that has so far held up. I get my tree guy Mark out there every. Every other April, I should say. And next April he's up because I'm always worried every time the tree changes color, it's like this just. It looks like a fall sweater. And I'm like, is this the last year? So I'm asking myself again, is this the last year?

[C]

Yeah, Sorry to hear that. But that's.

[B]

That's too bad it's not the last year. It still looks great. That's the, you know, control.

[D]

I think we're doing okay.

[B]

There's a lot of.

[C]

There's a lot of invasive species these days. You know, it's one of the things that's happening everywhere.

[D]

I had a huge tree fall down in my yard this morning too. Huge one. I showed you guys a picture.

[B]

You did it was huge.

[D]

I didn't even hear it either there. But it's really windy and stormy here and it's been raining for like two days. But it was pretty big, like a big section of it and it didn't look unhealthy. So I don't know if it was struck by lightning or what, but a lot of cleanup to do today.

[C]

This is our natural world section of the podcast and if anyone else has anything they want to add in the chat about, you know, trees or. Or beetles or anything, just rush. More invasive species episodes. Yeah, the lanternfly would. Would be on there. Spotted lanternflies around here is.

[D]

Oh yeah, we get those too.

[C]

Number one. Number one. They tell you to just kill them, which is like pretty rare that someone tells you to just kill something. Okay.

[B]

Is it rare anymore? I don't know. I don't know.

[C]

I've never seen it before. Maybe it's just.

[B]

I think that's a factual statement, rj. You know.

[C]

How the hell would I know? I'm just saying.

[B]

I don't know. This is the Northwood segment of our episode which is a great advertisement for our book literary movie podcast called Library Card, which we will be recording an episode of that following the conclusion of this episode where we will be doing a blockbuster card edition, talking about one battle after another. Which two of us have seen twice, one of us has seen once. You'll try to guess which ones have seen twice. And once following that episode. But also includes an episode about the book north woods that the three of us highly recommend and is still there as my tier one a book of 2024.

[D]

That book was so amazing and I think about it every time I'm up here in Massachusetts because I told you guys. But I grew. I planted an apple tree like 14 years ago. It's probably three feet tall. And until two years ago, it didn't make apples. And this year we had our first harvest of like big grocery store sized apples. And it is the most Northwoods thing ever because part of that book take talks about an apple orchard.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Apples are essential to understanding that book.

[C]

Yep. Yeah, yep.

[D]

It was amazing. I've been baking with them all weekend. I made an apple cake. I put some in some ice squash soup. I'm super. Fall vibes over here, guys. I need Brian's shirt. Then I'd be like perfectly fall vibes.

[C]

Yeah, we would be. But you know, we're all covering it somehow. Okay, so I guess we got the fall vibes. Everyone knows it's fall now. I think through throughout this hopefully. We got an amazing review from. From a listener. You guys. You've been so kind in your reviews on Apple Podcasts, but really great. And I just want to say leave. Leave us a. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. You can go there and just do it pretty easily. I've walked through the steps before, but if you go to Apple Podcasts, you should be able to figure it out. Search for helping friendly podcasts. Leave us a review. The last one is just wonderful. So thank you to that listener for. For leaving that one.

[D]

Can I interject about that? I just want to have that listener. I think it's Hambone 24. I want them to message me on Instagram or Blue sky because I want to send them something. So please reach out to me because that was an awesome review. So if you're listening, please reach out. It was really meaningful.

[C]

I hope it's apples.

[D]

It is. It's an apples and an apple cake. It's just apple themed things.

[C]

That'd be so cool. Okay, thank you for interjecting that. There is a new episode of Our Friend Chris Pandolfi has his new season of this podcast, Inside the Musician's Brain. He interviews Del McCurry. Comes out tomorrow. You all should check that out. He's doing such great interviews and I think on this episode he talks about HFPOD a little bit at the beginning. He's been a. He's been a guest multiple times and he's a good friend of the pod and he has awesome conversations with bluegrass folks and people beyond the bluegrass world. So check that out wherever you get podcasts. And I think that's everything before we get into Cross Eyed and Painless. This is a. This is a. It's a unique Mount Rushmore. Maybe the only Mount Rushmore entry with Fishman singing. Do you guys agree? Will there be any more?

[B]

We did moma dance before, so no.

[C]

Well, that's. He's not singing lead vocals though, on Moment.

[B]

Isn't he the lead vocal Moment?

[D]

Yes. Only Trey does it when he forgets that he's not doing the tab version. But yeah, I. It's.

[C]

Yeah, I guess so.

[D]

It was recently more.

[C]

Yeah, this feels more like. Like that.

[B]

We will definitely be doing a tube Mount Rushmore at some point. That is a song that requires a Mount Rushmore culling. Figuring out what are the four best tubes. Not first tubes and not last tubes. The four best tubes. It's my tube joke for the day. And that song is not sung by John Fishman. Written by John Fishman.

[C]

Not really on topic, but what else is new?

[D]

RJ is like, lit up today. This is what happens when you have a day off, I guess.

[C]

I guess. So you guys are just calling me out. So I'm. I'm back. I'm so back.

[D]

I'm ready to do, like, a bike. A bike. Hold your head up. Bike. I don't know what we're going to do.

[B]

Hold your head up is definitely on the list of Mount Rushmore's to do.

[D]

Because isn't it like the most played song ever?

[B]

Well, not the hold your head up but the segment, you know, the Fishman segment within. Yeah, you're gonna have to listen to a lot of, like, 1991 Fishman telling the same joke six shows in a row. I hope you're ready. But that's the hard work. That's the hard work that's essential to making this podcast tick and to making it work and to getting the kind of reviews that we got from Hambone, because as Hambone said, we are. We are in a new era. Maybe the best. Who knows? Who's to say? Who's to do a Mount Rushmore of HF pod eras? Certainly not us. That would be a little biased. But we have to keep the workload up by listening to every hyhu in a row to ensure that we understand, not rush more of it. So you're welcome. Meg, you walked right into that one.

[D]

I can't wait. Can't wait for that.

[C]

All right, Meg, tell us. Tell us about. About this song. Is there anything we need to know besides what Brian already said?

[D]

Yeah, there's a lot we need to know. Cross Eyed and Painless was obviously written by the Talking Heads and it was released on Remain in light in 1980, but it was first performed by Fish on Halloween in 1996 as part of their musical costume. The Talking Heads Remain in Light album was the third musical costume that the band undertook, but it was the first that wasn't a fan vote. And part of the genius of this band is knowing that this album would lead them out of the uncertainty and the transition year that was 1996. They were looking for a direction after a fall spent perfecting arena rock and playing relentlessly. That peaked with this world dominating show at MSG on 1231 95. And they found what they were looking for in the hive mind groove of the Talking Heads. The tight, tense, high energy shot out of the canon that is Cross Eyed and Painless gave the band the path they needed to find their new sound. This first version is played with Carl Perrazzo on drums and Grippo and Grazaway on horns and the Debut is a 10min tour de force, which we're going to talk about. The song was immediately impactful as they played at their next show in Florida, also with Purrazzo on drums, and that led to a monster jam. Oddly, they only play it three times in 1997 despite being so clearly influencing their sound at the time. And then it was totally shelved until Big Cypress where it shows up for a 21 minute version after yam at 2am clearly the band remembered how inspiring this song could be when they needed to jam and and it shows up twice more in 2000. It's played twice in 2.0, both great versions and a few times a year kind of early in 3.0 and then it shows up nine times in 2011 and then it's played a few times a year throughout the rest of 3.0 and 4.0. But recently it's really started to be playing with increasing frequency. It was played six times in 2024 and four times this year and obviously could be five after MSG. And I think this song has such important moments in important shows I think about like UIC 2011, Bill Graham 2012, Jam Night at the Baker's Dozen. But it's also been the jumping off point of segments of jamming that have been the highlights of the set or even the tour throughout its life of the band. This song's been played 72 times. So every 14 shows on average since its debuts it has three 34 entries on the jam chart and that is a 47% chance of jamming. And I looked through all our old Mount Rushmores and that is the highest we've discussed in the Mount Rushmore series. Most are around 30% and this one's at 47. So Brian curated 12 versions for our HF Pod Top versions and they range from 96 to 2025. Just kind of demonstrating that this song continues to be as inspiring today as it was when it first debuted.

[C]

Brian, do you want to say anything about the about the 12 versions as it is a pretty curated version of the 34. Is that 34 on the jam chart?

[B]

Yeah, when I was thinking through and I was looking through the larger list. I mean Cross Eyed is interesting. It's something we're going to talk about, no spoilers, but almost from the jump that one of the things that makes this song special as a jam vehicle is that it's almost as much about the song as it is about the jam itself. And so this is definitely one of those. And I'd be curious to go through the larger list of Rushmore songs we have selected that would fall in this category. But this is definitely one of the songs that you could make an argument for pretty much every version to be a Rushmore selection to listen to, if only because almost every version that's been played at least has a type 1.5 jam onto it, if not a full on excursion that is usually show, if not set and tour defining in a lot of cases. I think that what makes these versions really unique is that they both incorporate what makes Cross Eyed and Painless so special as a song. The groove, the really driving, really vivid lyrics that are provided that really feel like a call to action in some case, and feel like someone really just struggling with the system that they're living in at this point in time. And then the music and the riff that is such an earworm and just buries itself in your brain. These jams build off of that tension and that sort of idea that is ever present, like right at the forefront of what this song is about. But then also show us what happens when the band feels this inspired, this locked in, and where they can go with that sense of freedom. And so I think when you look at these versions, compared to say something that was off of our list, but is definitely a notable version that I would encourage people to check out, which is 7:12, 2000, rather than just fading into space and fading into kind of atmosphere as a fade into the next song. These versions all kind of build off of what Cross Eyed and Painless is. What it does for the set just by appearing and then shows us kind of a new idea of who Fish could possibly be, which when you go back to the origins of this song, is really one of the things, you know, in addition to the song itself, the jams it produces thematically, what this tipped off for the next six to eight months for fish and throughout all of 1997, this song is really kind of a cornerstone of where they were going.

[C]

So we had 12 to choose from and this was a pretty, I guess, unanimous discussion. Pretty easy. We didn't have a lot of fights. Nobody threatened to quit. There were no, you know, there were no big, big quarrels, unfortunately. So there's not a lot to this. But why do you guys think this. This song was. Was missing in the late 90s?

[B]

I think it's because the band found that they could play around the theme of the song enough that it didn't necessarily need to rear its head.

[D]

Like it's almost too much on the nose.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I feel like when they played this, trying to step lightly so that I don't give too much away. For our first great reveal, when you hear the band play Remain in Light and you read about that period in time and that tour, what really strikes me is that they almost had. No, Meg mentioned this in her intro. They almost had no idea where to go next. They had these little hints and little moments of like, okay, we should try this music. We should try to bury ourselves in these kind of grooves. Okay, fishermen should try to do this. Trey should try to do this. And there seems to be just a lot of like, everything's working, but it's not as exciting as it was. And we need it to get back to being as exciting as it was while it still works at this level in an arena. And they weren't really finding what that is. And it almost sounds as though the second they played Remain in Light on stage on 1031 96, they realized in the moment that this is the type of music that we need to go forward with. And so you then distill that I don't think Phish is really the band that is going to play once in a lifetime outside of the debut performance. And then the one off on Dick's Night 3, 2015, very specific one off bust out. You start to go through the songs in Remain in Light and I think it's really this or the Great Curve, a song that many of us have been begging the band to bring back. These are the two songs that feel most in line with like, what a fish show sounds like. And so these are kind of the representations of who fish is post Remain in Light. But the challenge, the challenge with Cross Eyed is that riff and that groove sounds like a fish jam. And so when you go through late 1997, 1998, parts of 1999, rather than play the song, they kind of just seem to find themselves in a cross eyed space that makes it. Well, why would we play it if we're already using the best parts of this song until we get to a great Bust out version on. 12 hours, 31 minutes and 99 seconds. But Meg, do you have anything you want to add there?

[D]

I was thinking something similar. It's kind of like, you know, when you find the piece that leads you kind of the piece of the missing puzzle and you know where your direction is next, that maybe you don't want to keep playing the piece. You know, you're like, okay, now we have this and we want to translate it into our sou. Our music. And they did that so effectively. So maybe they were just kind of shelving it in a way to. To push themselves to use that sound in their own music and in other. In other jams. But I do find it interesting that anytime they needed to like super big jam, like I'm like jam filled night, like you know, big Cypress, they go back to Cross Eyed. And I think it's really a big indication of like. Because they're playing it more frequently now with their commitment to extended jamming now it makes sense to me. I think this song is a place where they really find inspiration for deep jamming. I mean you can hear it in the second version they ever play. But it's just interesting that they felt like they couldn't use it then. And maybe it was intentional. Not sure. Interesting to think about. But I think Ghost is the song that reminds me the most of this in encapsulating a sound and being so kind of contextually important for the band. But they played Ghost like crazy. But maybe that's because it's an original. I don't know.

[B]

My guess would be that that's an original. I mean it is interesting to look at Cross side's appearances and gaps from 1996 to 2009. Outside of two notable performances, 2:21:97 and 914 2000, there's nothing less than a 29 show, 25 show gap in between versions. And then it's played on 6232004 for the last time in 2.0 and then 629 2009, a version I was at. I remember quite notably because Fishman pulled his microphone down before the second set and a guy right next to us started yelling cross eyed. The place lost its mind. But then they found themselves in it. I think by mistake. I don't think they were planning to just two shows later. 7312009 out of a drown jam and from there on there's one more. There's a 40 show gap between 73109 and 624 10. But post that there is nothing more than a 24 show gap in 2019. So 62319 to 127 19. Everything outside of that is pretty much sub 20 shows if not within 10 shows. Like it just becomes, I think to your point, Meg, they figure out how to jam all of these songs going forward. And Cross Eyed jams move beyond just the cross side theme in a lot of ways that they seem to be celebrating playing it, while also knowing that, like, that groove was a part of the band's jamming style a long time ago. It's now more, you know, lost to history.

[C]

All right, Meg, do you want to take us. Do you want to take us to the first. First one here? Are we ready? Yeah.

[D]

I'm really excited to. Because when I was listening back to these versions and I played the debut, I texted you both immediately because it was so thrilling and I hadn't listened to it in a while, and I think I forgot just how absolutely intense this version is. And like I mentioned earlier, we have Carl Prazo on drums and we've got the horns in there. And when you listen to this version and you think about what was happening in 1996 at this time, it is so absolutely thrilling. This version is. Is jangly. It's wildly paced. The horn section is just going mad. The pace clearly motivated the band, and you can instantly see how inspired and captivated they are. Riding that groove must be so intoxicating. The textures, the pace is relentless. Fishman is so lit up. I love how it ends with this big percussion breakdown. This is pre percussion rinse, but this is what it sounds like. And Fisherman's just screaming over it. And the crowd is going absolutely nuts. And 1996 crowd, like, we deserved it. We had seen so much mid Fish that year, so, like, we really deserved this moment. And I think that besides the electric, absolutely killer performance, there's two other reasons that it's on our list, and we've kind of been talking about it. Brian mentioned it earlier. The song of Cross Eyed is just as important as the Jam. This set is always changed when there's a Cross Eyed and painless played. It is such a shot of adrenaline. And this version is the strongest shot of them all. It's so infectious. And I think if you're going to make an argument for a Mount Rushmore version just being the song, this is the perfect version of that. And also context, which, you know, we love context here. And historically, this album cover changed everything for the band. You know, it taught them they could reinvent themselves. And you can really hear it in this performance. And things change right away from them after this. And if you think about what 1996 fish sounded like before Halloween, 96, and what it sounded like after, it's. It's completely crazy. And I think this is probably the strongest conceptual or, excuse me, contextual argument we've had for Mount Rushmore, except maybe Ghost. But I really do think contextually having this debut on Mount Rushmore is really important. So Halloween 1996 is the first version we're going to put on Mount Rushmore. I'm interested to see what. What people think, if they think that that's the right move or not. So chat, let us know.

[C]

The. The only thing I wanted to add is just the. I think it's the only. Is that the only time they played Cross Eyed with horns?

[D]

I think so. We would have.

[B]

That would make sense.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know of any other.

[C]

Yeah. And they just the. The horns add so much, you know, it's such a great way. And in future versions, you hear Trey try to figure out how to like, fill in that space because he's, you know, in the first version, it's just such a big part of the song and then they have to figure out how to fill it in, which they do. They do figure it out. Spoiler alert. But yeah, the. It's cool that it's just like a simple chord jam. Like Trade isn't really soloing at all, but it just is. Like it's so high energy and so fast paced and yeah, it's great.

[B]

Yeah, it almost feels when they play this, like they've just unlocked something. Not just for themselves, like, for the whole like jam band universe. Like, it's. It's wild how much the groove within Cross side sounds like how late 90s and modern day jam bands jam. It's kind of funky. It's got a propulsive groove to it. It's minor keyed, so it's a little bit sinister. You can do a pentatonic scale over it like a motherfucker and sound like you know what you're doing. You can throw some wa on there, some weird effects, throw the clav on. There's like breakdown opportunities and then back into the groove. Like there's a reason why Jam bands across the world play the Talking Heads as like some of their foundational covers. And that Cross Eyed and Painless is one of those. And you just hear it with Fish, it just like makes sense. Like you suddenly hear, you know, these groovier parts. And I say this in quotes because, you know, 1995 is not really groovy, Fish, if you will. But like, there are groovy parts of Jams throughout that period in time that suddenly you're like, oh, this. They just needed to figure out the Talking Heads and whatever rhythms they with on that album. And yes, someone to mention in the chat, like Born Under Punches. That would be an amazing return cover. I would love to hear them play that again. The Great Curve. I already mentioned, like, pretty much the entire remaining Light. If you just want to play that all the way through another time, I'm here for that. Bust out. That would, like. That would break the Internet in a very good way. I'd be into it. But Cross Eyed and Painless is the one that sounds like a Fish jam distilled into a song. And you hear it so much in this first version. I think this is one of the best debuts that they've ever played throughout their history. It may be the strongest. Like, I'm really struggling to think of another time that a song meets Fish, where Fish is at. And even on other great performances of COVID albums. You think just two years later, the performance of Remain in Light. Could we have selected the rock and roll there as a Rushmore version? There's definitely an argument that we could. That's an extended Trey solo on that. That really sets a template for what that song will be going forward. But I think that to your point about context, Meg, Cross Eyed and Painless being played for the first time is in a totally different category with rock and roll being played for the first time. Fish wasn't changing dramatically coming out of Halloween, 1998 the way that they were changing dramatically coming out of Halloween tonight, 1996. So I'm totally into this. I think that we all wrestled with a few versions, and then we're like, no, the debut makes the most sense for everything that we've just said here. I'm proud to have this be our number one.

[D]

Yeah. I think it's the best debut ever. I. I posted about that online, and I was waiting for someone to counteract me, and nobody has yet. And so contradict me. Not counteract. Contradict me. And no one has counteract too.

[B]

You know?

[D]

Does that work, too?

[B]

Okay, sure. Yeah. Coming after you.

[D]

Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm off work today. I'm a little slow on the uptake. Um, Yeah, I think. I think it might be. I don't know. I'd love for someone to prove me wrong, but I. It's. It's hard to think of a more powerful debut that had bigger impact.

[C]

Yeah, that is. It is hard. It's hard to think about. I don't know. I can't think of one.

[B]

Like, even something like Golden Age that was, like, a big deal when it debuted, you know, from a cover standpoint. Also, like, most of the fan base didn't know who TV on the Radio was. And like, that song, we didn't know what it would become. Like, is it actually going to become, you know, this is Halloween. This is the second track. You're totally right about the horns. And it really makes me wonder why, like, Trey's never offered to do this again. In the times that they've brought horns back on stage, like, it's like the only song we know how to play with horns is Susie Greenberg. You know, everything else, like, is off the table. Like, this is an amazing song with horns. It's such a great call.

[D]

Yeah. That would have been so killer to hear this again with horns.

[C]

But there's still time, guys. There's still time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Could they have made Magna Ball Day 4 better by playing cross eyed and painless with horns? That is the question.

[C]

That is such a good question. Such a good question.

[B]

Such a good question that we have to move on to Mount Rushmore.

[C]

We do. Megan, where are we going next? Far, far away.

[D]

What's wild is that we're not going very far and it's 1996 and we're having a second 1996 version on Mount Rushmore. I. I mean, you know, this has got to make me feel a little good because I've seen the most fish in one year out of every year in 1996. And, you know, I saw a lot of just, okay fish. But it's really cool that there's still great fish even in years that are less successful for them. Yeah, it's just like so cool. But this performance comes just a few days after the debut. It's part of our top tour 25. This tour where they're really thinking about rhythmic exploration and they want to go really big. They have a playfulness. There's a real searching quality to it. We talked about how they were kind of reinspired after this post peak exhaustion and testing out the largeness of their machine. And can we still take risks now that we're this big? And I think that there was a little bit of a hint of where they were going before Halloween. I think about like the symbol from 1026 in Charlotte. But to me, the best jam of this whole entire fall 1996 tour is this jam is the November 2, 1996 from Coral Sky, Florida. This we all agreed had to be on there. This was a no brainer. Carl Perrazzo sitting in again. The beginning of this is so awesome because you can hear Trey saying, remember the one that's still waiting? And he like kind of like cues it up for them and then they just go. And then they just launch. Bam. Right in. And it's just, oh, so good. I think you can immediately hear the effects of the Remain in Lights album on their sound. And Trey's. The way that he takes the big solo out of the song. Rj, when you said that about them filling the space of the horn, you can hear Trey just, like doing that so solidly here. And he takes this huge, massive solo that turns the whole jam really melancholy and dark. And they're already refining the soundscape textures behind the song, which is really interesting to me. And I think in this version, you hear 1997 jamming reveal itself. It's layers of textures over a funk groove. Mike super out front. Paige and Trey are talking back to Mike. And then at 14 minutes in, it just goes completely off the rails effects loops. But it still never loses that propulsive nature. And it ends with those kind of eerie and desperate still waiting quotes. And to me, this gem is the perfect combination of energy, rhythm, and exploration. It has all of those, and it never goes too far on either one of those kind of balances them in a way that I think is so exciting, especially thinking about it being in fall 1996.

[B]

The.

[C]

We have a question in the chat. Is. Is the first Rushmore with two consecutive versions? I think it definitely is definitely right. It's definitely. No, definitely not, guys. Obviously waves.

[D]

It's wrong.

[B]

20115 26. 20115 27211. But yeah, I mean, this is a rare thing. This is definitely something we have to, like, consider and ask about. I think that up until Sometime this weekend, 11296 was our first one. And then we were searching for what the number four would be, and we realized it was right in front of us. It was 1031. So it is a rare thing. It's. It's definitely worth noting and pointing out. It's okay.

[C]

You don't have to pretend. You don't have to pretend that there was some legitimacy to the claim that this was the first one. Just wasn't because there was waves, which was even shorter in. In a time.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

One day.

[C]

I just. Yeah, I mean, you said a lot of it, Meg. But I think the, like, Trey is kind of in. In the front at the beginning, and then he steps back and Mike is playing like on the third time back listening to this. You can hear Mike just playing really interesting, interesting lines in here. It's just like they opened up this new space that they had found in 95, but, like, kind of lost some at some point in 96 for the most part with. With a few exceptions, but it just. They. There's just like. It's like a new vehicle they found. And it's of course, with two drummers keeping it like high energy throughout. But it's cool that it's like some really great soloing. But then it gets, you know, kind of dissonant and spacey, but it's still like so rhythmic throughout. It never slows down the entire time. It's a. It's like an. It's an amazing gem.

[B]

Yeah, this gem is amazing. And I don't think there was ever a question of whether or not this would be on our list. The. The thing you mentioned there, I was thinking about it as well, that infusion between Summer 95 and Fall 96, where you have this underlying groove and you have this kind of tightness that they had built up throughout the year, but they're also dipping back into the spaciousness. It's not as melodic or kind of mic oriented as you will get a year from now with their jamming. It's much more. It's a lot more bizarre than fall 97 jamming, but it has that groove. You're totally right. Like there's. There's just something. You cannot pin this jam really down to an era, which is kind of how fall 96 feels overall. Like fall 96 kind of sounds like 1995 fit. 1995, 1995 fish. I can't speak combined with 1997 fish. Yeah, but like, it doesn't sound like its own thing in the way that, like you hear something like, yeah, that's fall 97. And so this like has that middle ground. It's really exciting in that way. And it really is bizarre to me that they didn't play this at all throughout the remainder of 1996. They never were like, I don't know what to play. Should we just like go up there and play another Big Mike song or, you know, another 13 minute tweezer or like, should we dip into this song that. That is working. This won't get played again until 2:16, 1997 in the winter, fall. In the winter Europe 97 tour. And 97's played 216, 221 and then 8:13 and then retired until Big Cypress. And it's just wild to think that they would discover something and have such immediate results and then back off. That. That aspect of Fish. They're kind of restraint when something works and they're like, let's not, let's not Tap the well too many times because if we do like, maybe we'll get stuck in this sound. They just let it be its own thing and then explore the remainder of the tour without it. It's just a really, really interesting decision. But I think that you could argue if they didn't know on stage on 1031. This is when they have to know. Because this jam sounds. Has hints of that simple. You referenced. Has hints of the mic song from Deer Creek. Obviously it feels like a harkening back to some of the more wide open, spacious jamming of summer 1985. But considering everything that was happening in. In 1996 in the world of Fish, this is the moment where the proof is right there that whatever they did to play Remaining Light has now been unlocked into the jamming sensibility. And from here, even if they're not going to use Cross Eyed and Painless, you're going to get the rupt gin. You're going to get the gin from 11 1996. You're going to get a bunch of great. You enjoy myself. You're going to get the disease from Seattle. You're going to get all the weird stuff that happens throughout 12 6, 96. Like you're going to start to suddenly get these jams that feel like big stepping stones towards whatever's coming next in 1997.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. I just was looking and I. For all the fish that I saw in 96 and 97, I'd never heard Cross Eyed live until 2011. That's bizarre.

[B]

Which is when it becomes like more like normalized, which is wild to think. Yeah, we have a really good point here from Ed. Maybe they didn't like it that much with just one drum kit, which I never considered like. Like Perazzo Leaves. I think the next show, I think he's. I think he plays on 11396 and I think he's done after that. And so maybe they just thought they couldn't hold down the rhythm with just Fishman. No, no offense, Fishman. We all know you can hold down the rhythm and sing, but maybe they thought initially that was going to be a little bit too much for them. Who knows?

[C]

There was a. There was a version mentioned in the chat earlier, which I guess was the first version I saw, which was 1111.

[D]

Yeah, that's the first version I saw too.

[C]

That is very strange to think about.

[D]

Isn't that weird? I mean, for how much fish you saw a ton of fish in 97. Like in 98. Like that's so. Yeah, it's Just bizarre.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing in 09 or 2010 either. So I had to wait and saw it three times in 11 and then enough after that. You know, there was a time where like this, this was. I don't know exactly what, which versions, but there was like a period of time maybe, maybe I'm thinking like 2009 to 2012 where they're like jamming was not really necessarily likely, you know, And I guess it was during the time when like nothing was, yeah, maybe gonna jam. But you know, like you would hear it start and then it would be like an eight minute kind of thing in the middle of a second set when. And nothing else would happen. I feel like that happened many times, but maybe it wasn't as many times. I think.

[D]

No, that's a really good chart. Yeah. The. Sorry, Brian. The only ones from 2009 to 2012 that are on here are with 13 to 16 minute versions. They're pretty short. And those are the only four that are on there from those three years.

[B]

So yeah, there was a lot as well. And this even happened into 2016. I think that the Gorge has one of these in 2016 on 7, 15, 2016, where the band was almost. They would use it as kind of the starting block for a set and then they tease it throughout the set. And so they'd always come back to like Still Waiting. And there were a lot of sets that just started to kind of feel like Still Waiting sets. And that's something that has since largely been broken and largely been forgotten as it's become more of a standard 16 to 20 ish minute jam vehicle that we see here into modern day. I will just say, you know, the. The most recent incarnation of this song might be my favorite where it seems like it is. What are we going to do to kick off the fourth quarter? It's been a good third quarter. What. How are we going to end this show? Okay, we'll play Cross side. And they play like a 9 to 16 minute version of cross side. That is not the most stunning music you've heard from the set, but picks on the jamming from earlier in the set and does two things of. Or three things of being a great song selection in the fourth quarter rather than just like a standard Trey ballad. Here's a couple rock songs. The second, you hear the whack of the. Of the. The snare drum and the first chords like no matter what, no matter if you saw the last five versions, you're excited. It just has that nature to it. And then it has open ended jamming so it ends up extending the kind of high points of a set. Magna Ball 2020 or Monda Green 2024 is a great totally Dick's has one. There was one from Great Woods 2024 and that continued into this year.

[D]

MSG 2122924 like just completely like killed that fourth quarter. This I totally agree. This is exactly what we should be doing in the fourth quarter. It's energetic.

[C]

As you guys consider continue to think about what could be the next two. We have some guesses in the chat here. There is some speculation about what's next. You guys are going to have to wait just a minute while we take a break and then we'll get to the last two versions. So be right back.

[E]

This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician and host of Rearranged, an Osiris Media podcast about music arrangement. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. We're not just talking about adding orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings, or doing a cover version of a song. Arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all acoustic, even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase. It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use arrangements to answer some big questions like what is a song and what can a song become? And how can the sound of a song change the meaning you take from it? Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to you remind and maybe it'll happen for you too. Learn more@reranged podcast.com.

[C]

Osiris all right, Brian, you are the. You are the person who has to take us, take us to the next place.

[B]

I do. I have a few roles to play here at HF POD headquarters and one of them is advocating for this version of Cross Eyed and Painless and this arrow fish in general. I think when we thought about where to go next, we looked at a few really solid, really excellent versions from the late 90s, most notably offhand the Big Cypress version from 1231 99, the Darien Lake version from 914 2000, more specifically the Cypress version because it is the bust out and then it extends the cross side theme, speeds it up and then returns you there in such a cool way. But I think we realized what Cross Eyed ultimately will become as the band evolves is it's going to become one of their most important jam vehicles. This isn't just a bust out this isn't just a song that's going to kick off a segment of Teases and be like a really fun second set. This is a song that's going to have open ended jamming and this is something that's going to really become a part of Cross Sides history and a Fish history overall as they move forward. And so there's a version that does the thing that 123199 does, which is be this really monumental bust out in a really important Fish show. But then the jamming goes into a completely different direction, a completely different space in a way we're going to describe here in a second. And that is 7 29, 2003 from Burgetstown, Pennsylvania. I'll get the personal bias out of the way. This is I think the best jam of 2003, of 2.0 at large. I don't think that there is a single missed note throughout this jam. Every idea is then supported almost immediately by a different band member and pushes them forward so that like three minutes on down road you're hearing ideas of what the band where the band was at three minutes prior. But it sounds like a completely different band. It's just a fast fascinating journey to listen to. I've gotten to the point where like I can't listen to this jam regularly. I just need to like be able to sit with it in the moment. This is my Fish musical version of the movie Goodfellas in that it can do no wrong. There's no off points, there's no weird rabbit hole they get you down. Then they have to back them out of and go find a different jamming route. Everything just works and propulsively moves you forward. But I think larger, you know, and I'm curious your guys thoughts on this. I want to hear you guys gush as much as I am obviously. But like, you know, why is this on our list? Beyond the fact that I love it, I think that when you think about Cross Eyed and Painless up until this point in time, it is a song people are desiring to hear and that the band is using thematically to build out their jams, but they're not playing the song. And when you hear this version, they are now suddenly in an era. It will take a few years and a breakup, but they are in an era where this song is now going to be more comfortably residing in the overall song catalog and will open itself up to so many different styles of jamming. And if you look through the next two decades you're going to get really beautiful Melodic jamming. Like on 731, 2009, you're going to get really gorgeous chordal jamming that shows Paige and TREY Aligning on 7, 10, 13 and 10, 17, 14. You're going to get really fun groove based jamming and thematic hose like 9, 14, 16. But you're also going to get these like, like massive sweet inducing versions like Jam Filled Night. You're going to get ambient explorations like the Gorge 2018 and then so many more since they come back in the 4.0 era. Just looking at the jamming chart of what we've seen, nothing really breaks 20 minute mark. But it's all really inventive, really thoughtful, really wild kind of of risky jamming that you're going to get from them over the last five years since they've come back. And all that to me, really kind of starts with this version that solidifies that Cross Eyed and Painless is now a song we're going to turn to. And a song we're going to turn to with good reason because we have a lot of other things to say. And this is the good foundational starting point. So I'll pause throw to you guys. I think I've said enough about 72903, but I want to hear your thoughts.

[D]

Well, I was just thinking about how you in your intro you said it had a little bit of a sinister vibe, like the minor key of this song. And I think if a song has that, it has to have a 2.0 representation. Like this song is gritty, it is a little edgy, it is a little agitated and exploratory. And that to me is what 2.0 is. And it's like, you know, 2.0 is when you like pick up the rock and you like see what's under there. And that is what this cross eyed version is to me. It launches with that juicy funk. But there's just one minute, one moment in the jam. It's like six minutes in. And when I was listening to it, it feels almost like someone's like wearing a robe and then they just drop it because it becomes so minimal and just shocking. And the way that they build the jam back up with percussion and Trey soloing is oh my God. And they build to that like swirling crescendo and the way that Trey just starts noodling those like really high notes and Fishman's hitting these like really hard quarter beats and Paige gets on the piano, it's just. And then it has the like gritty soundscapes. To end this jam is tremendous. It's beautiful. And I think it has to be on here. I think the exploratory and nature of this jam is really where Cross Eyed goes from here in a way that is. I mean, it's actually. That's not right. I think it exemplifies what Cross Eyed has always been because even in 11 296, it's super exploratory. And so I think this is. Is one of the more exploratory versions and had to be on there. And I know someone in the chat was saying, like, surprised that we skipped over Cyprus. And I think when you listen to Cyprus and maybe it's because we don't have an archival version of it, which are we going to get it? It's 25 years this year. I'm hoping that this year is actually when it happens because, like, how can you have your best concert of all time not archivally released? But listening to it with all these other versions that are archivally released, it is. It's hard to compare them, maybe. But this one has a stronger narrative arc, I think, than 1231 99. And to me, this one just stood out. It's much more focused, it's much more cohesive, it's richer to me, it's more interesting.

[C]

Yeah, I don't really have anything else to add. I mean, this is, this tour. If you listen to like take five or six jams from this tour, this is definitely one of them. You know, I think it just represents the way they sound. And you're right that the song is a good fit for it. There's like a 7, 1099 Choctaws vibe for a minute there that goes into this like repeating space loop. And it just. It's really a really good representation of that, that tour. But then like, it's sort of under control. It's like controlled chaos, you know, for a lot of the time, which I think is. It's awesome. It's such a great, I don't know, a lot of jams this tour. Like, you know, fast paced, slightly melodic, but also still like kind of unhinged. And that's what you get here. I think that mix is very, very recognizable. So we did it.

[B]

Yeah, we did it. I'm happy that it's here. Yeah. I hope everyone out there takes a second to listen to it and recognize its great because it just deserves everyone's ears all over again.

[C]

So we're going to the last version here and there are what there were like five or six versions post 03, if we were looking. In looking at it chronologically, I agree that the. The Cypress jam, by the way, just to go back to that, I. When I went back to it, I found it kind of like. Like the last. I don't know, five to seven minutes are really great. But before that, it's kind of. It kind of like, is unremarkable for a while until they get into this place. And that seems. Yeah, that seems like. That's like. You're not allowed to say that about Cypress jams, but now I've said it about two Cypress jams on Rushmore, so. Keep it going.

[B]

It's true.

[C]

Keep it going. I mean, I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to be honest with you guys.

[D]

Breaking news. Cyprus wasn't as great as it says it was. Everyone will really hate us then.

[C]

Yeah, it's fine.

[D]

We can only say that because none of us were there. And we don't really think that. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Said it on a recorded line. My goodness.

[D]

I'm totally kidding. It was facetious.

[C]

So. Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

Well, I just want to add, it is interesting to consider this versus the rock and roll because I think we're all in agreement. The rock and roll from Cyprus ends up on the list. Even RJ's. How do we put this nicely? His slaughtering of the last 15 minutes of that jam. No, I'm joking. That says a lot. Like, I think it would be problematic if a song like Cyprus or song like Cross Eyed has to have one of its most important versions be from big Cyprus, when there has been so much music that's been played since. And Cross Eyed and Painless has been a defining part of so much of the music since then. The counter is that a song like rock and Roll really isn't like a foundational jam vehicle right now. It's like a set closer. It's an encore piece. They don't even open second sets with it anymore. Cross Eyed and Painless is like front and center of who Fish is still to this day in 2025. And so while, yeah, I do. I think the Cypress version rules. I love how it kind of like swirls up and it just gets faster and faster and faster. And then they come back in with the. The chorus. I think that that's such part of the tradition of a Cross Eyed jam is how will they find themselves back into the chorus. But I think showcases a lot about who fish was in 1999 and 2000, not so much who they are now. That said, there's probably at least two more, if not three more Rushmore versions from Cyprus. So you guys can all like, yeah, tamp it down a little bit and just be. Be cool with what we've done thus far. Because thus far, far we've put down with disease and rock and roll on the Rushmore from Cyprus. And if the band wants to get us the soundboard quality tapes so that we can hear all the rest of them as we should, they're more than welcome to do that. Nobody's telling them not to.

[D]

No.

[C]

So such a good point. Well, for our last version, we are going to a place where we do have a soundboard quality. We even have. Do we have a vinyl version of this or is that. Is that not on the vinyl version? Version? Because it's not.

[D]

I don't remember.

[B]

This is not on the vinyl. No vinyl. If you want my redo of the vinyl, I've crafted a playlist that would work hours wise in the way that they did it, but has all of the important jams and some of the important not jams, because there were some important not jams that happened that should have been preserved on that excellent vinyl that they released that doesn't have a ton of excellent takes. So, you know, reach out.

[C]

I'm surprised you have that. But, you know, life is full of surprises. And that's, you know, why we. Why we do this. Okay, so we're going to this. Is this our first. Is this our first entry from Jam Night on Rushmore?

[D]

I believe, I'm afraid to say, because I'll probably be wrong because I feel like everything I've answered authoritatively. Authoritatively has been wrong.

[B]

This.

[D]

This episode.

[C]

I don't think it's our first Baker's Dozen because we did something from Baker's Dozen recently because I remember saying that was the first. But I don't think this is our first from Jam Night anyway.

[B]

This is our first from Jam night and also our first from the Baker's Dozen.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

We've done one 2017 jam. We've never. I'm double checking. I'm triple checking. You can all chill out. Out. Okay, we're double checking. Relax. Making sure everything. Relax works.

[C]

Well, I'll just start here.

[B]

This is. This is the first Baker's Dozen jam right here.

[C]

First Baker do jam. Look at that. Round of applause for all of you for just being awesome. So this is a. This is a the Jam night. I don't know if you guys remember. Jam night was pretty awesome. And this is a It's a great version because the. It's like a long walk up a mountain. You know, it's like pleasant, pleasant, patient. See, you see some trees and then you kind of keep going. You, you know, maybe meander a little bit on the way. But like this jam probably wouldn't end where it ended up if it. If it wasn't jam night like you could do a couple times. And they just keep, you know, pushing. But before that, like six minutes in, it starts to kind of go quiet it. And then Trey just stays on the guitar like the whole time. And then. Then it kind of meanders a bit for that walk up the mountain, but then it goes up to this ambient kind of space and then just gets back to second kind of major peak. It just like that. That would be my very brief description. But there's a lot of thought going on here. But you can tell that if. If it wasn't jam filled night, I think in that after that first little peak it probably was have segued into something else. But they knew they were. They knew they were pushing it this night. And I'm glad they did because there's so much going on here. There's like at least five or six different. Different parts of this jam.

[D]

Yeah, I think this version and 11296 are my two favorite versions of Cross Eyed because this one is like you said RJ really well. The way it starts out so jazzy and melodic. It's so delicate and layered. And Paige is so ethereally. He has this like ethereal background that is just so Baker's dozen. And Trey just kind of floats on top and it's so emotional. I was just listening to it before we recorded. It's just the most emotional playing. And Trey plays emotionally in a lot of these jams. I think about like the dicks from from 16. There's just so much emotion that he can find often in these jams. And this is the best version of it in my opinion because it builds to that perfect sunny peak. And then you have the most quintessential yards after catch situation because the jam total ends. And like you said, rj, just Trey emerges out with these like little repetitive chords and everybody slowly falls on top of it and it's so pretty and patient. And then you get the more of that Baker's Dozen synth just. And they build up. And the way they find the cross eyed refrain again is just. It's perfect. This is an awesome version. So glad it's on our list.

[B]

Yeah, I don't Think we. I don't see anything else we could have done here. There's some excellent versions from the last couple of years. The Dick's version from 2016 that Meg mentioned we considered. If this had been my own personal list, I would have probably figured out a way to put 10, 17, 14 on there. Which is one of my favorite jams of the pre Baker's Dozen era. Regardless of Cross Eyed. Just like in general all. But I think like when you think musically you listen to this and it sounds like modern Fish. A little rough around the edges in some ways. But like as opposed to some of the 20 to 25 minute long jams of summer 2017 that critically now sound like the band building just towards a peak. This has that sort of abstract. Any ideas possible, we can go to silence and then come back. Synthesizers are not just going to be an addition to the jam. They may be a centerpiece to a certain point in time. We can have multiple peaks. Like that's a thing. We don't just have to peak one time and then move on to another song. We can peak and then explore the backside of that and then peak again. Those sorts of ideas are going to become a huge driving force for why Fish is jamming in the modern era.

[C]

Is.

[B]

Is the way that it is. And you know, you think back to this Show Similar to 1031 96, similar to 11296. This feels like a big. You walk in one way and you walk out a completely different way in terms of how Fish is. And this is in a show where you've got the joke of a sample opener on jam filled night. And then oh, the joke is actually the band is going to jam out sample Lawn boy in song two. That then goes almost. Almost 30 minutes. The first my friend my friend type two version that will then be reprised years later as the band realizes this song is now a jam vehicle. Stash and bathtub gin not jamming while everything else jams in the first set. Fuego. Really cool jam. This is going to be the last jam of the show. This cross eyed and painless and also the one that really kind of builds upon all the ideas that happened as a result of a gimmick. To your guys point, this probably is 1819 minutes in a normal show. Here they have the freedom established to make it 33 minutes which was a shocking thing in 2017. Fish like we are now accustomed to. Oh, it's just a 31 minute long jam. Like this never happened. And so not only do you get, you know, this This, I think this is the first 30 minute jam since the Tahoe Tweezer at the time that like you know, crosses that, that, that time frame and really showcases what 30 minutes can do for this band. But you also get this sense of like, all right, it doesn't just have to be Tweezer. Any song could have this opportunity to jam and it can really happen at any point in the, in the show. And you've got to imagine for the band this reinforced an idea that even if things aren't clicking immediately, just keep trying, keep pushing. Because something like the Cross side and Painless for the Bakers doesn't could happen and it now happens on a fairly regular basis regardless the show. It does not need to be a centerpiece night. It does not need to be something they're highly advertising. They just connect. And here you go. We got a 30 minute jam for you that's going to just blow your minds. So really, really important jam contextually, historically, but also just an outstanding and gorgeous jam.

[D]

And it's not surprising to me that they chose this song to play this monster jam in on this night. You know they could have chosen so many different songs and to me it makes sense that it was cross eyed. But yeah, I really, when you were saying that I was really thinking like I'm trying to remember how big of a deal it is when they play this long of a jam then because we're spoiled now and we've lost the kind of. Of what that feels like when they do something this big. It was a big deal.

[B]

It was just not even. Nobody thought they would do it. Nobody was even predicting this sort of stuff anymore. Like I think that people would have been satisfied with like 1012 minute long jams on jam filled night just in case everything kind of jammed. Like I don't think people were expecting multiple near 30 minute long jams.

[D]

Yeah, no.

[C]

So the, the fans were on the same page with us except for one exception which was switching out the debut for Cyprus including Evdude. That was his individual choices were 11221126 12, 3199, 72903 and 72517. That that reflects the fan vote also evdude. So you're, you're a representative sample in this case. I. Do you guys want to. I know that we haven't really talked to honorable mentions. Can we do like a. Like a lightning round honorable mentions?

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Yeah. Did any of any fans vote for the debut? I'm just curious.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. There was Some there was. There were like. See 10%.

[D]

Okay, cool. I was just curious.

[C]

Yeah. What do you guys got?

[D]

My honorable mentions were Cyprus 2012, Bill Graham, the Holmdel from July 10, 2013, 10, 17, 14 from Eugene. And my personal favorite, which would have probably been my fourth if I took off the debut, which is the 9, 14, 16 from Dick's. But I had a lot of honorable mentions. You know, that's like. That's five. So that was 14. Like I had a lot of versions on here. I got pretty close to all of them basically. Because. Because all 12 of these you could make an argument for, I think.

[C]

Yeah, I think at 9,416 was the highest ranked one that I had. That didn't make the top four. Although I do think, Brian, that the. The 10, 17, 14. There's like some My Bloody Valentine style sounds going on into the last like chorus at the end. That's like really, really cool. It's a really. That's a really interesting gem.

[B]

Yeah, and I wish that that jam. There are a few jams from fall 2014, the chalk dust and Ghost from Santa Barbara, some of the stuff from San Francisco, the Piper from Las Vegas. But that was a very up and down tour. And that jam, I think has gotten lost to history as a result of it. But the key that they find and the way that they start singing, still waiting. But it's not. Yeah, it's not Cross Eyed. It's this like, very haunting. They just kind of get this idea and they're playing this really weird chord progression. I can't get enough of that. Every time I listen to it, it kind of like reinvigorates me and makes me realize that, like there is worth in listening to all these kind of underrated jams because there's just something always happening at fish shows. But I'll just shout out because that was obviously on my honorable mention. Bill Graham was definitely there. That's a very, very significant version. I think I left it off only because the Cross Eyed sandwich seems to be the bigger deal. And the Light and the Sally seem to be the bigger jamming deal in that set versus the Cross Eyed, even though Cross side is quite good. But big shout out for 7, 10, 13 from home. Dell, one of my favorite jams of 2013 as a whole. And the. The. The chordal plane that you get from Trey towards the back end that where he aligns with Paige and they rise. They like build the jam up not through soloing, but through chords I could not get enough of. When it happened and on replay and then 9, 4, 16 and I threw 8 3, 12 4. Maybe for, maybe for honor. Attendance bias means. But like that jam that they get in that hints then back at what's going through your mind and really fulfills this nice segment of Kill Devil Falls, what's going through your mind and cross side is just kind of exemplary of why I'm still so high on summer 24.

[C]

All right, so. So this is cross eyed and painless. You got our Rushmore here. We got 1031-961129-67290-372517. Next week, we are going to be doing another fun draft where we are going to select the top 25 shows of the 21st century. So if you want to prep for that, all you have to do is listen to every show between 2000 and 20 and the last show they played.

[D]

You should see this spreadsheet for this draft. It's like, hilarious, but Brian can explain it about how we're going to do it, but it's different than our usual drafts.

[B]

It's different. Yeah. So you guys should get prepared. What I would say for everyone is kind of go through the larger list of shows played from 5, 21, 2000 to today and just start to, like, see. See what it takes if you pick your 25 favorite shows or what you think the 25 best shows are, because that would be a fun way to play around and play along with us. We are going to draft in eight rounds. Each person is going to have one pick. That pick they can pick from any year. They can pick multiple times a year, multiple times a tour, multiple times a run. There could be runs that have multiple picks in our overall list. And then our final pick, our 25th pick, we will on air decide together what is the final show that is needed. So I think this should be a lot of fun. We're going to be jumping into the podcasting bandwagon of celebrating the last 25 years, putting a rubber stamp on the first quarter of this very interesting, slightly strange, and a little bit terrifying century that we are finding ourselves in the midst of. But one of the best things that has happened over the last 25 years is that Fish got healthy, they figured things out, they got their lives on track, they got the music in the proper place, and we are at a point where we can legitimately look at 25 shows that defined the first 25 years, even if Fish didn't play in all of those. So very excited for that next week. We haven't drafted since the dreaded Dick's draft of August 2025, we won't be able to do an MSG draft ahead of msg.

[D]

Why not? Why not, Brian? Brian, why not?

[B]

We're just not allowed to. We're not allowed.

[D]

Why not? Why not? Can you explain why?

[B]

Well, people have ruined that, you know, that draft and taken away the ability for us to celebrate MSG in all of its.

[D]

Who's ruined it? Brian.

[B]

So we're gonna, we're gonna do this draft and then we're gonna figure out draft drafts for the year of 2026. We're very excited to bring you our next slate of drafts.

[D]

If someone wants to tell me what Brian's talking about, that'd be super helpful. So you can fill me in. If you know why Brian won't let us MSG draft, MSG shows, you can let me know.

[B]

We just can't do it. So we'll, we'll be caring for MSG in a different way. But this will be our last draft of 2025. As as far as I'm of aware, yes. Unless someone wants to build the draft themselves. Yeah, this will be our last draft.

[C]

Could happen.

[D]

No, I mean you build the drafts. That's your, that's your job in this, in this show.

[C]

Mario, Mario, who's watching on YouTube asked what's the phone number? Do you, do you all still take messages? We do. It's 484-416-0488. You can call anytime. Leave a message and we'll. We're going to get to those. We're going through them as we go. So. All right, we got cross eyed and painless done. Next week we'll choose the top 25 shows of the century and, and, and we'll keep bringing you awesome, awesome fish discussion. So thank you guys. Keep leaving us reviews and keep listening and have a great rest of the week.

[D]

Thanks everyone. And if you watched one battle after another, come join our next pod.

[C]

It's happening now.

[B]

Sam Osiris.