Mt. Rushmore: Ghost

Summary

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Helping Friendly Podcast: Mt. Rushmore – Ghost (Phish)

Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Osiris Media (RJ, Megan, Brian)

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Episode Overview

In this special "Mt. Rushmore" installment, the Helping Friendly Podcast delves into the history and improvisational legacy of Phish’s “Ghost”, aiming to pick the four most essential live versions of the song—a “Mount Rushmore” of Ghosts. The discussion is a passionate, detailed, and at times contentious exploration of Phish fan culture, deep listening, and jam evolution, ultimately reflecting the song’s centrality to the band’s identity as an improvisational force.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Identifying the Definitive “Ghosts”: Selecting the four live versions of “Ghost” (the “Mount Rushmore”) that best capture the song’s impact, evolution, and musical magic.
• Discussing the Song’s Evolution: How "Ghost" has acted as a mirror to Phish's shifting improvisational styles from 1997 to present.
• Fan Perspectives & Community: Incorporating listener voicemails, fan votes, and commentary to reflect the collective Phish experience and debate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction: Context & Stakes ([00:47]–[03:08])

• Hosts Debate the Hardest Rushmore Yet:
  “We’re going to be talking about Ghosts today. We have a lot to talk about. It’s going to be a hard one and...I’m going to get some blowback because it’s my pick.” (RJ – 01:18)
• Draft Results and Engagement:
  Megan celebrates another draft win, joking about the correlation between social media use and victory.

2. Voicemail Fan Input ([03:39]–[09:30])

• Listener Appreciation for "Lemon Wheel Ghost"
  “A masterclass in patience...Ghost is like one of those songs where we could see the evolution of this band in real time.” (Adam – 03:39)
• Shoutouts for Other Versions
  Lakewood, Radio City (LP on LP4), and the importance of listening to “Ghost” on vinyl.
• A Bit About Studio Albums:
  “Brian is right. Round Room might just be the best studio album...eye opening on vinyl.” (Atul Bulkar – 05:26)
• Jam Chart Write-Up Complaints:
  “Brian, you’re part of the team now, I think you need to get on that!” (Adam – 08:19)

3. Ghost 101: Song Evolution & Stats ([09:33]–[13:56])

• Origins & Debut:
  • Written by Trey and Tom Marshall.
  • Debuted June 13, 1997, in Ireland (“Summer of Funk”).
  • Studio version on Story of the Ghost (1998).
• Musical Evolution:
  “I don’t think there’s a song that has defined an era so exactly and then also evolved so dramatically.” (Megan – 09:42)
  • 1997: Cow funk & disco.
  • 1998: Lush ambiance.
  • 1999: Darkness.
  • 2000: Spacy, millennial sound.
  • 3.0/4.0: Layered jams, industrial elements.
• Statistics:
  Played 231 times, 68 Jam Chart entries (30% jam rate), more Live Bait inclusions than any other song.

4. Is “Ghost” About Drugs or the Supernatural? ([12:05]–[13:56])

• Lyric Interpretation:
  “I don’t care what anyone says; the song is definitely about drugs. And that’s part of what makes it great.” (RJ – 12:05)
• Open to Multiple Interpretations:
  “Is the song about drugs? Is it about the supernatural? I don’t think we’ll ever know.” (Brian – 12:22)
  • Fun note about Brian’s daughter changing the lyrics.

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The Rushmore Draft: Selecting the Top Four Ghosts

1. First Pick: 11/17/97 (Denver) ([15:14]–[19:12])

• Hosts agree it’s a landmark jam.
  • “To me, this is the best of Phish. It’s the best of this song...Not a wasted note in this jam.” (RJ – 15:14)
  • “This is the OK Computer of Phish jams.” (Brian – 18:31)
  • Notable for: sophisticated space funk, seamless transitions, setting a template for future “Ghosts.”
• Iconic ending:
  “We’ll have lots more music for your dancing pleasure. That is some suave shit.” (Megan – 17:46)
• Could you do a Rushmore with only 1997 versions?
  “1997 is Ghost.” (Brian – 20:06)

2. Second Pick: 5/22/00 (Radio City Music Hall) aka "LP On LP 4" ([24:37]–[31:24])

• “This jam is so tight and infectious...so dramatic and sophisticated with Page on the piano...feels like hive mind at work.” (Megan – 25:17)
• Danceability & Groove:
  Essential as a Mike-forward, groove-centric dance version.
• Brian’s Take:
  “This has to be a Rushmore version. It accomplishes a lot...shows the band is committed to a larger goal.” (Brian – 26:53)
• Even if it’s not a personal favorite for all hosts, it symbolizes the band’s democratic, groove-centric jamming approach.

3. Third Pick: 11/28/09 (Albany) ([33:59]–[40:11])

• Contextual Choice – A "Phish Is Back" Moment:
  “When this happened—a 24-minute Seven Below and then a 24-minute Ghost—it was like, ‘They’re back!’...play[ing] amazing jams that break new ground.” (RJ – 35:59)
• Multi-sectional, adventurous jam:
  Lyrically and structurally represents the longevity and rebirth of Phish in 3.0.
• Controversy:
  “Attendance bias!” – Fans in the chat note. The hosts acknowledge, and RJ welcomes listeners to revisit and debate this pick.

4. Fourth Pick: 8/3/18 (Alpharetta) ([45:27]–[48:46])

• Represents Modern Era (4.0) Ghosts:
  “Patient melodic build...10-minute Pink Floyd-like section and then a glorious peak. It represents the modern era in a way the other versions don’t.” (RJ – 45:27)
• Layered, sophisticated jamming with sonic variety:
  Strong case for how Ghost has evolved since its inception.
• Megan:
  “Gets so much done in those 20 minutes…hard to tell who’s doing what because it’s so layered.” (Megan – 46:30)

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Alternative Picks, Debates & Notable Honorable Mentions

• “Ghosts” That Almost Made It (Honorable Mentions):
  • 8/3/03 (IT Festival): “Never a better peak.”
  • 7/6/98 Prague: “Trey’s best-ever guitar solo.”
  • Lakewood 97: “Peak power Phish–the funk edition.” (Megan – 52:30)
  • 7/23/97, 12/11/99 Spectrum, and many more, including 4.0 jams (e.g., Nashville, Deer Creek 2024).
  • “We could make a top 10. Or more, easily.” (Megan – 66:03)
• Jam Chart/Statistical Dilemmas:
  38 versions curated for the exercise, with at least a dozen being strong contenders.
• Danceable Ghost Debate:
  7/20/99 and 11/28/97 identified as top dance-party candidates.
• Fans Weigh In:
  Many in the chat advocate strongly for Summer ‘97 versions; others for IT ‘03 or "Holy Ghost" Miami ‘09.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “1997 is Ghost.” (Brian – 20:06)
• “Not a single wasted note in this jam. There’s only two, maybe three jams by Phish that still make me cry…this is one of them.” (RJ, [15:14], on 11/17/97)
• “This is the OK Computer of Phish jams.” (Brian, [18:31], on 11/17/97)
• “I think the voting is a direct correlation with the amount of time you are on social media.” (Megan, [02:09])
• “This jam is so tight and infectious...the groove is so beautiful.” (Megan, [25:17], on 5/22/00)
• “When it sounds like Trey is surfing on top of the music...that’s what it sounds like. So in the moment.” (Megan – 52:30)
• “Attendance bias!” – Multiple chat users, re: 11/28/09

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Fan Vote Results ([69:01]–[70:04])

Fan “Rushmore” for Ghost (record participation!):

1. 7/23/97 (Atlanta/Lakewood)
2. 11/17/97 (Denver)
3. 5/22/00 (Radio City/LP On LP4)
4. 8/3/03 (IT Festival; just beats 7/6/98 Prague)

Notably, only 2% of voters picked Albany 11/28/09.

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Conclusion ([68:36]–[71:53])

• The Ultimate Challenge:
  The hosts, joined by input from fans, acknowledge Ghost as perhaps the hardest “Rushmore” pick yet due to its endless impressive versions.
• Personal Reflections:
  “This is Ghost, probably one of my top five favorite Phish songs…so hard, but my favorite Rushmore we’ve done.” (Megan – 68:45)
• Next Week:
  Rushmore for “Waves,” with 2.0 jam exploration ahead.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39] – Listener Voicemails: Lemon Wheel, Lakewood, Radio City ‘00
• [09:33] – Ghost Primer: Stats, evolution, influence
• [15:14] – First Rushmore Pick: 11/17/97 Denver
• [24:37] – Second Pick: 5/22/00 Radio City
• [33:39] – Third Pick: 11/28/09 Albany
• [45:27] – Fourth Pick: 8/3/18 Alpharetta
• [51:53] – Alternative Picks & Honorable Mentions Discussion
• [69:01] – Fan Vote Results
• [70:18] – Teaser for next “Rushmore” episode (Waves)

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Additional Resources

• Vote for the next Rushmore: osirispod.com/rushmore
• Call in for the next show: 484-416-0488

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Summary by Helping Friendly Podcast. For the full experience and more Phish conversation, listen at Osiris Media or your favorite podcast platform.

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Transcript

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[RJ]

Osiris. What's going on, everybody? This is the Helping Friendly podcast. Here we are. We are coming at you live every week since 2013, give or take. Sometimes every day, but definitely every week or two now. We're every week. Right, guys? Do we do this every week?

[Megan]

Every Wednesday.

[RJ]

Every Wednesday.

[Brian]

RJ's dream.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Been my dream. A lot of people have other dreams, but that was mine and I got it. We are going to be talking about ghosts today. We have, we have a lot to talk about. It's going to be a hard one and we're going to, we're going to get some, or I'm going to get some blowback because it's, it's my, it's my pick. So, you know, if you have all the, you want to tell me all the bad picks I made, that's fine. I'm prepared. I'm ready. We have a, we do have. Before we start, we do have a new, a brand new draft winner to announce. Brand new. Never been one. Never won a draft before. Just kidding. Megan won again with 50 of the vote. Why we even vote anymore? Megan? Just to, you know, a couple, couple people vote for Brian, a couple of people vote for me. But, you know, we can't hold a candle to you in the drafts.

[Megan]

I think the voting has a direct correlation with the amount of time you are on social media. So I feel like maybe that's why I'm winning. I don't know. Just saying. Um, but I did work really hard for that draft, so I appreciate the votes.

[RJ]

You got the.

[Brian]

I didn't work hard at all.

[RJ]

I know you got, you got the, you got the shows and you got the votes and that, that's all, that, that's all that matters. So we are, we're going to do another draft in a few weeks. A different kind of draft, but we'll talk about that and when the time is right. Um, I. I just want to say that on Friday night, I'm going to be at the Brooklyn bowl here in Philadelphia with. With Reprise. So if you're in the Philly area, you should come. Come hang out. It's going to be fun. They're going to be re reprising 12.29.96 with Tom doing some singing. There's a bunch of other dates coming up. You can check out reprisepan.com if you want to check them out live. What else do you want to say? Oh, I did want to say we did have record participation in the voting for this. For this Rushmore, so good job.

[Megan]

We're going to be surprising. Yeah, it's the hardest one.

[RJ]

I think it's the hardest one so far. And, you know, maybe we'll have a harder one. I mean, we're going to have to do Tweezer at some point. I mean, it's going to be crazy. There were a couple listeners who reached out via voicemail about this draft, so maybe we should listen to, like, one or two of those just to get in the spirit of. Of Rushmore. What do you guys think?

[Brian]

Let's do it.

[RJ]

Yeah, I love that Rushmore spirit. Okay, here we go. Rushmore spirit.

[Adam]

Hey there. I just want to talk to you guys a little bit about the song Ghost. There are a lot of contenders in this one. A lot of listening to be done. I'm going to talk to you about the Lemon Wheel Ghost. Hopefully you guys, some of you, anyway, picked it like a masterclass in patience as a performance. And it was also really important at the time, which I think is important to carve it into stone because Ghost is like one of those songs where we. We were able to see the evolution of this band in real time. And it happened where you see the 97 funk and really cool synth sounds. And then. But 98, we had something much more patient. This was a slow creeper version, and it was awesome. You know, Ghost had a new introduction by that point off the guitar, and, you know, y' all try that again. Ready? Here we go. 1, 2, 3. And then the delight of the fans was this ambient thing where John Fishman around the five minute mark changed the rhythm and then Trey ends up doing that again later. And I just love that version. Anyway, I hope you guys have a great day, and I can't wait to listen to episode.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Brian]

Thank God someone shouted out the Lemon Wheel Ghost this early. Yeah, that riff is like one of my favorite things that has ever been discovered by this band in real time. What an amazing what an amazing version.

[RJ]

The first first version mentioned on this on this episode. Didn't expect it. Good one. Did not expect a good one.

[Megan]

So good.

[RJ]

Let's hear what else. Let's hear what else we got.

[Atul Bulkar]

Megan, Brian and RJ. My name is Atul Bulkar, a longtime Fish and HF4 listener and second time caller I believe from Atlanta, Georgia. I just wanted to drop in and say a quick hello and thank you guys for a great year of HFAR content so far. Really digging the Mount Rushmore series, all of the drafts, and looking forward to all the stories of the ghosts later today. I'm personally unable to make up my mind on the top four ghosts. I don't really have the time for some deep critical listening on all of them, but wanted to share a couple of quick comments. While the Lakewood Ghost is absolutely epic, I'm a little biased towards the Radio city ghost from 5222000 might have baton on my Mount Rushmore for sure, partially because I recently got a turntable and took a plunge into the world of vinyls. Finally, the Ghost LP on LP number four sounds absolutely mind blowing on vinyl, especially if you have a great set of speakers. And then speaking of vinyls, I can't believe I'm saying this, but Brian is right. Round Room might just be the best studio album and again, listening to it on vinyl has been a bit of an eye opening experience for me. Lastly, I wanted to ask you guys if any of you are planning to make a trip down south to Alpharetta for the shows coming up on the 16th and 17th. I'll be there both nights and fish shows are usually solo affairs for me and this time too, I'll be there by myself. I would love to meet up and say hello in person in case any.

[Adam]

Of y' all are there.

[Atul Bulkar]

All right, cheers guys.

[Adam]

Bye.

[Megan]

Oh man, now I really wish I was going down there.

[RJ]

Yeah, I forgot about these shows coming up that there's a tour. Damn gonna be there.

[Brian]

Did I see that? The band is trying to cop this as summer tour continued. What are we doing here?

[Megan]

No, why are they doing that?

[Brian]

Embrace the fall tour, guys. Like has anyone been outside? Has anyone in Fish Inc. Been outside and felt the chill like I It's the day after what should have been dicks. Like we're, we're here. We know. We know what the what the season is. My God.

[Megan]

Also, like, fall tour is so legendary for Fish. They should want another One.

[Brian]

Exactly. But, hey, we got a lemon wheel ghost shout out and we got a round room shout out in our first two voicemails. What's going to happen here in number three, rj?

[Megan]

Well, Brian, don't forget we also got a Lakewood ghost and a Radio City ghost con.

[RJ]

That's true.

[Megan]

So I know you want to skip over those people. Like those a little bit.

[Brian]

Had no idea. Never heard anyone say anything good about them.

[RJ]

I. I still have. I still have nine versions on my list and I don't know which ones are going to be the top four.

[Brian]

I can't wait.

[Megan]

This is like live.

[RJ]

I'm going to decide while we're going because we got to see Ghost is a vibe song, you know, and this is going to be about the vibe. All right, Brian, this last one is actually for you. So here you go.

[Brian]

Sweet.

[Megan]

Perfect.

[Adam]

Hey, Adam calling from Buffalo again. I think it's so interesting right after you guys did that, had that jam chart segment where I'm eagerly awaiting to see the jam chart entries for summer 2025. And the huge what's going through your mind from Pittsburgh got just a. In my opinion, absolutely terrible jam chart write up. So, you know, Brian, you're part of the team now and I think you need to get on that. Thanks.

[RJ]

There you go. So you have some assignments, Brian.

[Brian]

It's the second message I've received about this jam chart entry today. So today. Today.

[RJ]

That's awesome.

[Brian]

Yeah. Trying to get as far ahead as I can in HF POD prep so that I can focus my attention on the jam charts and all the ideas that we have here how HF pod is going to help influence the jam charts going forward. Don't tell anyone, but you know, that's our goal.

[Megan]

Secret. I love that.

[RJ]

Megan, do you want to. Do you want to do like a ghost primer for anyone who isn't familiar with the song? Before we go. Before we go all in.

[Megan]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's really fun to think about this song because like our caller said, I don't think there's a song that has defined an era so. Exactly. And then also evolved so dramatically. I think that's what's so exciting about this song. And it was written by Trey and Tom. There is a really great under the scales episode where someone talks to Trey about it. I don't know. Someone. Someone I think on the show talks to tre the writing of that song with Tom. And it's pretty amazing. It debuted on June 13, 1997 in Ireland on Fish's Summer European Tour, which is our 21, 21st tour of all time. And the fan vote had that at the eighth tour of all time, we put it a little bit further down. But important, important tour. This song was recorded for the album Story of the Ghost in spring of 1998. And to me, I think what the caller so aptly said is so true, that even though this song is so rooted in 97 funk and disco, it really became such a vehicle for the band to explore new sounds and new styles of improv. We've got the cow funk of 97, the lush ambience of 98, the darkness of 99, the spacey millennial sound of 2000, all the way up to, like, the layered industrial jams of 4.0 and everything in between. To me, Ghost is the ultimate jam vehicle. And even though the jams have things in common, I think they often play with the musical ideas of droning and repetition and looping. It's always a great conduit for Fish's latest improvisational style. And they're always not afraid to kind of push the boundaries and go super type, too, which just makes it the most exciting song. It's been played 231 times on average every four shows. There are 68 entries on the Jam chart, so it has a 30% chance of jamming. There are eight versions of Live Bait, which is a lot more than any other song we've talked about. I think there's also, as our caller mentioned, one version on vinyl LP on LP4, which is the Radio City Ghost. Brian curated 38 versions for us to listen to, and it was really fun listening to all of them.

[RJ]

I mean, I don't care what anyone says. The song is definitely about drugs. And that's part of what makes it great, I think. I mean, is it hard to listen to 38 versions of it and not think that's what it's about? It made it difficult for me.

[Brian]

I listened to a lot of these versions while driving my daughter to and from school, and so she heard it a lot. And then I don't know where she started singing it, but I think you guys will find this funny. We also do a linguist podcast, and she subtly changed the lyrics when she would sing it from I feel I've never told you the story of the ghost, which is the suspense. Hey, have you ever heard this story? No, you haven't? Okay, I gotta tell you to. I feel like I have told you the story of the ghost, which Sing it in the same intonation. Dre does. It sounds like you're almost like. I know I tell the same story over and over again, but, like, I need to tell you this one more time. And it just shifts the rest of the song. But, yeah, I mean, is this song about drugs? Is the song about the supernatural? I don't think we'll ever know. Even though Tom has spilled a lot of the beans about the origins of this song, I like to think that the supernatural is involved with this song and that when this song is played, it is kind of the band saying, like, almost the way that, like, you know, a show's going, it's going, it's going. And then tweezer. Okay. We're opening possibility to the unknown. Ghost works in that same sort of way, regardless if it has the funk start, the sirens, or the more kind of rock and roll start that it started to take on in 3.0 and in 4.0.

[RJ]

Oh, man, what a. What a build up. What a build up. So much build up. You guys ready?

[Megan]

Yeah, I think so.

[Brian]

I'm ready.

[RJ]

All right, we're doing this live. We're doing it live right now.

[Megan]

Thrilling.

[RJ]

I had a couple. I had one that I was gonna pick first, but I think. I think there's some late, late changes. So I think I'm just gonna go with. Yeah. All right, so we're gonna go. We're gonna start, obviously, in 97. We have to start in 97. I don't think I'm gonna Fuck. This is. This is. This is what's hard. All right, I'm just gonna start because I think this is gonna work out. I'm gonna start with what I think is the greatest version, but also one of jams that Fish has ever done. Why this version? Because there's not a single wasted note in this entire jam. There's only two, maybe three jams by Fish that still make me cry almost every time I listen to them. And this is one of them. Trey surfing over pages wake. I mean, you guys know where we're going, right? Brian. Brian's already writing it. Brian's already writing it.

[Megan]

Yeah, he knows.

[Brian]

Pretty sure I know exactly where we're going.

[RJ]

All right, so we're. We're starting with 11, 17, 1997. Yeah, I think this is the. I think. I think there might. You might want to say that, like, this doesn't adhere to Ghost as a. As a song, but to me, this is the best of Fish. It's the best of this song, and it's the best of that. It's like, so encapsulates that tour. And I skipped over a couple that I'm sure we're going to talk about, but not a wasted note in this jam. Perfect start to finish. Every single second of it is amazing. So that's where I'm starting.

[Megan]

Absolutely.

[Brian]

Yeah. This. I think the thing that makes this the right first pick is that has segments at the start that encapsulate so much of what made the summer version spectacular. That, like, groove dance party from, like, interstellar space. But as you noted, rj, it shifts and it's. It's. It leaves Ghost, which is something that it didn't do for a lot of the summer. And it's kind of the first version for a while that is going to go, like, going to show that Ghost can be the way that tweezer was at this point in time, you know, where anything is possible. This jam leaves the funk and it kind of goes wherever. Yeah. It's the only fish jam that we know of that the band used to fuel after show parties.

[Megan]

What else do you need to know?

[Brian]

What else we need to know?

[Megan]

Yeah. To me, it's sophisticated space funk. I think it takes what is so fun and raw and loose about the Summer 97 versions. And there's, of course, one that I love and want to talk about later, but this is the elevated version of that. And it's. It's just the. The funk section is so sophisticated, I think is the word. It's so tight. It's. It's just. It's perfect. And the way that it also builds to this, like, huge, swirling, blissy peak and then melts to the spacey, cool. It kind of sets the. The outline for what so many of the great Ghost jams will be. And then it has that super spooky, cool ending with Trey, like, lounge singer. Like, we'll have lots more music for your dance and pleasure. That is some suave shit. Yeah.

[Brian]

You know you're on one when you do that, right?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Yep.

[Brian]

That is, like, a level of confidence that I think every athlete wants to achieve. Every artist, no matter what they're working, what medium they're working in, every writer wants to, like, write that chapter where they're like, fuck, yeah. Like, I can literally, like, break the fourth wal. Whenever I select a version for this series, I always try to compare it to another artist or album to kind of give myself, like, an anchor of, like, why is this important? Can I tell you what I would compare the 111797 ghost to?

[RJ]

I would expect no less.

[Brian]

This is the okay Computer of Fish Jams.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Brian]

It's technical, but it's still got soul. It can kind of do anything in the confines of what it's trying to do. You're never really surprised by the experiments it takes, but you're also, like, blown away that the band has this ability to do this at this point in time. Very much like how okay Computer flows as an album. So that is my. That is my biggest endorsement I could give.

[RJ]

I love it. I. I wanted. I want to. Before we go on, move on. A couple people in the chat have said that you could do a Mount Rushmore of Ghost with just 97 versions. Do you think you could make that argument if you wanted to?

[Megan]

Absolutely. I mean, you can even. It has such an evolution. Just in 97. I think you could definitely do two or three. Like, for sure. For sure. Like, I have two on mine, and I almost have three. I have. Yeah. I don't know. I almost had three 97s.

[Brian]

Are we taking the whole song into account, or are we just trying to find, like. Like, I don't. I guess I don't totally understand.

[RJ]

I think just jams. Jam versions like that.

[Megan]

There are, like, three of the three or four of the best versions of Ghost take place in 97. Like, could you make that argument?

[Brian]

I don't think I can make the case for four.

[RJ]

It's close, though. It's really close. I think.

[Megan]

Yeah. It wouldn't, like, the breadth and the evolution of the song and the jam. I think it would do a disservice to that. But you could.

[Brian]

Yeah. A lot of them. The dirty truth is a lot of them are one note. They're great one note, but they're one note. And. But then at the same time, Megan said this earlier. That is totally spot on. 97 is defined by ghost, or ghost is defined by 97 in a way that almost no other song is even a song. Think of 2018. You think of Everything's Right, but the sound of Everything's right isn't like 2018 fish in the way that ghost is 1997. 1997 is ghost.

[Megan]

Exactly. And that's why I think I struggled with this a little bit, because I think about the first time I ever heard this song live was July 21, 1997. The first time they ever played it in the US live. And they come out at Virginia beach and they open the show with Ghost. And this is the first time most of the people in the audience, like, 98% of them had ever heard 97 fish. And it was so dramatically different. They hadn't played in the U.S. they only played in the U.S. once in six months, seven months. And so we hadn't heard this yet live. And even if we'd heard tapes, I remember being in that audience and it was like a pin could drop in there because everybody was just so blown away by, like, what is this? This is so different and so fucking tight and full of swagger and punch, and it's so raw and it was so locked in. And I think that it's no, you know, coincidence that Trey came out and opened this show with a 17 minute ghost. It's just not. And it's. It's the definitive song of one of the best years of Fish. So I think you could make an argument for that.

[Brian]

Were you guys all having that conversation during the jam?

[Megan]

Are you kidding me? It was a vibes girl, Brian. I was, like, on a bunch of Molly, like, dancing, like, you know, living my best life.

[RJ]

I think. I think this song is going to be. This song is going to be closer. This. This is probably the closest song where you could argue for the most versions in one year.

[Brian]

Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, that's fine.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[RJ]

For all those reasons you're saying.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

I had another 97 version that just dropped off right before I started talking. So, you know, you never know. You literally never know what's going to happen. But I feel like where I'm leaning now is going to make some people angry. And I guess that's just, you know, I'm just here for the. I'm just here for the storytelling and the arc. I'm here for the arc.

[Brian]

And shout out to RR Paul, who's asking if you're approaching the Rushmore episode, like a draft and just, like, winging it in the moment. I love it.

[RJ]

I mean, there's nine versions that I've listened to at least two times each. So, yeah, it's really just about, like, what's rising to the. To the top. I think this is going to be really controversial, but I'm just going to go for it because, you know, it's my choice, so everyone else can yell at me. All right, so we've already. We've already skipped a couple and we'll go back to them. We're going to skip what I think is Trey's best guitar solo ever. We're gonna. Yeah, we're gonna go. I think we're gonna go straight to this. Yeah, we'll go straight. I wanted to have a. We needed a Dance version. Right. Seven is not a dance version. I have another version I think I want to talk about, after which I think is the most danceable version of Ghost ever. But I don't think it's going to make the top four. But I think that you can argue that this one is a dance. A dance representative. I think it's a. It's a page representative. There is some, like, dance hall segments mixed in with the effects that, like, really represents exactly what this ghost could be. Like, what ghost could be. I was at this show, and I. And I never intended on having this version on the list, but I had the third listen through today. I was like, this is it. This does it all. This gives you some beauty. Some, like, very quiet segments. The way that Paige approaches half of this jam, like, he's, like, in a piano rehearsal by himself. The way that then turns into this, like, dance party with the effects. I think it just. I think it has to be there. And it just. It just arrived on the top four today.

[Megan]

Wow.

[RJ]

Just arrived on the red carpet, so. So I. And everyone wants this on the list anyway. But I did come around. I didn't want to have it on the list. I didn't want to have it, but. But it's here, and that's the Radio City 522 2000. So that's where I'm going. Yeah, straight there right now. It's so. It's like. I mean, the reasons that we heard the caller say. But, Megan, I know you want to talk about it, too. I mean, it has a little bit of everything, but it really is a beautiful and really, like, delicately played ghost for a while, but then it turns into this, like, dance hall groove that is just. It's pretty undeniable.

[Megan]

Yeah. I'm really glad I did not think this was going to make the list based on our texts. Most recently, I felt like you and Brian were a little bit down on this jam, which surprised me. But to me, it's so tight and infectious, the groove. And there's something to be said when a band plays something so beautiful. And I think this is the perfect example of a really hypnotic, beautiful jam that doesn't have wild dynamics. But if it's that pretty, to me, it doesn't need to be. I think what you said about Paige on the piano, it gets so dramatic and sophisticated with Paige on the piano. And it sounds composed the entire time. It just feels like hive mind at work. They all sound so locked in. And that effortlessness was something that I kept thinking of that Word. When I was listening to all these jams, so often these jams fall into an effortless zone where the band just feels like they're in this hypnotic groove that's. It's so exciting, and I think we talked about this on our thread, but the space and the breath around such a tight groove. Usually when you have a tight groove, it's punchy and it hits. And this one is tight, but also really spacious. And that's just. That, to me, is just such an accomplishment. And I think the beauty of this outweighs the lack of a narrative arc, really, to the jam, because it doesn't really go anywhere that it doesn't start somewhere and end somewhere different. But I'm okay with that.

[RJ]

Yeah, well said.

[Brian]

Yeah, really well said. I think that this version, this is like the. Like, when I think about this series and what we're trying to do with Rushmore, this version kind of, like, defines it for me because this is far from one of my favorite jams, and I've had so many friends try to explain to me the brilliance of it. And every time I listen, as someone who really loves long tracks where little happens, I've never had that I get it moment with this jam. And yet, as I was listening through All My Ghosts, kind of what you were saying, rj, about, like, we needed a dance version of this song. We need a version of this song that has Mike front and center. We need a version of this song that shows Trey leaning into kind of the. What they were trying to accomplish, at least what it seemed from the outside in 97, plus what they've told us, you know, in the sense of, you know, trying to find, like, more of a democratic approach, less rock star out front with a backing band. You find all of that in this jam. Like, this jam is like the whatever they were trying to go to go for in from 97 to 2000, you get it in this jam. And so when I thought about it, I was like, this has to be on the overall list. This has to be a Rushmore version. It accomplishes a lot. It shows that the band is committed to a larger goal, and stylistically, it is, like, truly unique. It's never once hit me on the emotional core, but I don't really think that that's what Rushmore is about when it comes down to it. It's about what are the versions that say the most about what each of these songs is and what they're potential is and what they're capable of accomplishing. And so I had to Remove myself from this one and be like, okay, what is. What is it for the band's history? And I think, I think we're all on the right page here. 55222000 Great. Great pick there, RJ.

[RJ]

Brian, your. Your spirit fan of dude says it's almost the pinnacle of the groove based jamming. The ultimate form of the late 90s style in a sense. Which is, which is how I feel.

[Brian]

I get it. I. But I also don't.

[RJ]

Yeah, I got it.

[Brian]

He's right, man. Like, the version sounds amazing on vinyl and yet every time I hear this jam, I get a little bored.

[Megan]

That's fair, that's fair. That's, you know, that's the beauty of art, right? It's subjective and, and I think that it's interesting. I didn't think it was going to make your list, Brian, so that's interesting to me. That's cool.

[Brian]

Supersede myself when thinking about these lists. It has to be on the list. Even if I prefer something like DC98 or the Lemon Wheel. The Lemon Wheel is where my, like, when I think about this like deep late night space groove, I always go to Lemon Wheel because that really has something to hold on to. It's that Trey riff that doesn't make any sense musically and somehow works. But yeah, I think, I think we made the right call here. This is. And I'm trying to think of like a movie comparison here and I just, I'm blanking on it. But like, you know, you have to like make a list of like, what are the most important movies? Like there are some movies that are like really long, like Arabia. A good buddy of mine just watched that and he was like, this is the longest, most boring movie I've ever seen. And we got into a conversation about like, well, is it still good? Is it still like worthy of being called like one of like the 10 best movies ever made? And we got into that conversation and that was a lot more interesting to me and to him than the movie itself. But having that conversation like leads you to be like, yeah, I guess, I guess. I can't argue here.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah. This is like a, you know, it's like a big Scorsese epic that, you know, maybe is a little too long, but it's also so perfectly done and beautiful that it's. It's great.

[RJ]

I gotta say. I. So I was at this show, it was the only show that I saw in the year 2000. And I had a great time. It was awesome. Went to New York I was, like, 20 years old. Yeah, 20. I think at the time, it was awesome. But I just got it this week for the first time. I did not expect it to be on the list, but I went back for, like, a fourth. Fourth time I've listened to it, I don't know, 100 times, probably. And I went back for the fourth time today, and I was like, this is this. This needs to be on there. So. So. So, you know, despite me saying that I'm, like, kind of winging it, I sort of am. But also, let's take a break so that I can figure out what I'm gonna pick next.

[Lawrence Lanahan]

This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician, and host of Rearranged, an Osiris Media podcast about music arranging. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. And we're not just talking about adding or orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings, or doing a cover version of a song. Arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all acoustic, even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase. It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use arrangements to answer some big questions, like what is a song and what can a song become? And how can the sound of a song change the meaning you take from it? Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to Rearranged, and maybe it'll happen for you, too. Learn [e-mail].

[RJ]

Osiris VT to boot, says they are all danceable. A couple.

[Megan]

You know, I agree. You know, I agree with that one.

[RJ]

I know. But. But I do think the Denver ghost is like a different kind of animal in that sense. It has a. Has a different, different vibe. All right, this is where things are about to get. About to get very controversial. You guys ready? So ready. So ready for this. All right.

[Brian]

So always slow ready. You guys can be same.

[Megan]

I'm so on board as slow. No one wants to be.

[RJ]

So did that break give you enough time to think about what's next? That is a. That's for our audio listeners. They will hear our break, and they will hear us contemplating.

[Brian]

They will think we deliberated.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[RJ]

All right, so I've talked about the next jam many times on the show. The reason that I'm choosing this, there's a few reasons. First of all, I think that this was the jam that, for me, at least, I was at the show, and it was the jam that when I saw it live. I was like, fish is back for real. And fish can still do exactly what I was hoping they do. And this is after I'd seen like, fifth. I saw like 15 shows in 2009 before this show. And I didn't really see, like, a lot of improvisation, right? We saw, like, a lot of. We saw some jams. We saw some really good jams in 2009. But when this happened, this combination of a 24 minute seven below and then a 24 minute ghost, it was like, this is. They're back and they can still do exactly what, you know, we. We wanted them to do, which is not just come back and play shows, but play amazing jams that break new ground. And so I'm going with the 112809 Albany version. This is. So here's a couple. A couple of my notes in terms of why. Okay, so this is a truly, like, multi sectional jam. You have this, like, early on jam that's kind of like a blues jam. It almost sounds like. Cool it down a little bit. And then there's like the seven Below teases. They're like what I noticed in the room that night. And my friend who had to sit down during the. The jam on the. We were on the floor and then folding chairs, and he had to sit down because of a. Some Buffalo Kush that made him have to take a break. But, like, it sounded like they were like, in band practice, and it sounded like they were so locked in and they were just going for it that night. And the last 10 minutes of this jam are, like, absolutely thrilling. And if you haven't listened to this jam recently, you have to go back and listen to it because it is an amazing 22 minutes of music that is. That goes way out there and it comes back and it like, builds into this thrilling, fiery conclusion that is fucking awesome. So I think it needs to be on this list.

[Megan]

Interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's an incredible jam. Like you said, it goes all over the place. And the end, the rock, it gets so huge and rocking, which is awesome. I think it definitely. I like your argument. Contextually. I think that's really true. I like some others from, like, I love the Miami New Year's version probably a little bit better, and I love the 123110 version too. But I think this one is a great one that goes a lot of places, which I think is kind of the direction that Ghost is heading in 3.0 and 4.0. Especially 4.0.

[RJ]

Let's hear it. Brian.

[Megan]

Brian.

[Brian]

I Accept. I don't agree, but I accept. I think, I think you're absolutely right in terms of the con. Far be it for me to make a context argument is not the right argument argument. But here we are. This is. This is where we. This is where we've come to. I think you're absolutely right. In the moment. This was like, okay, okay, we've had a fun spring and summer and fall refiguring this whole thing out. It's time to get serious now. And I. And these 40 minutes did that in a way that really nothing from 2009 could have. There are elements of 2009 I prefer to. This I'm the guy who would actually prefer to go to 112709 versus 1128 09, which is, you know, just personality driven more than anything. But I also really love that show. You know what? I'm going to talk myself into your decision making here because Ghost became something different in 3.0 that it was before you said it's like every four shows. Like, I'd be interested to see what it would be if you just looked at ghost from 97 to 2009, because I'm willing to wager it was played less frequently. And it was kind of this, especially in 3.2.0, it was this kind of like taste of the past. And this is almost that moment where Ghost becomes a song of what the band will do in the future. And you have these great versions like what you're talking about. Meg Miami. That's my favorite jam of 2009, the Holy Ghost. It was good moment. And then a lot of these jams throughout later 3.0 as they figured out that major key shift led to a huge raucous peak. And then we've seen in the 4.0 era them figure out how to re. Turn Ghost into a massive type 2 jam vehicle. I think a lot of all of that comes off of 1128, 2009. Do I think it's one of the four best ghosts ever? No. But I. I certainly accept the fact that RJ spent 10 minutes giving us a contextual argument that is that mission accomplished right there.

[Megan]

That's a win.

[RJ]

I. I mean, okay, I know that you two listen to this version. I think for those people who are listening to this podcast and who are thinking themselves, this is absolutely absurd. Pause. Pause the show and go listen to this jam and then come back to it and see if you feel differently. Yeah, it's fucking awesome. It's awesome.

[Brian]

It's really shocking that they put These two jams back to back and didn't really do that again for like three years.

[Megan]

Right. It's weird. It's so weird.

[Brian]

Very insane in hindsight to like go back and listen to this show and then be like, they just would. They. They weren't like, oh, we should do. We should keep doing it. Like, it's really. It was extremely aggravating in the moment.

[RJ]

Well, unless you were at the show, then. It was just awesome. Okay. You know, between the third and fourth picks.

[Brian]

Way to pull that one out.

[RJ]

Hold on. Forbin7. Forbin 777 asks if he missed the winner of the draft being announced. Brian, would you like to tell Forbin what happened?

[Brian]

I lost the draft. RJ came in second and Megan came in first place. We're all very happy for her. We are.

[Megan]

Yeah, you can feel that.

[RJ]

What? Brian?

[Brian]

We're all. We're all very final foot.

[RJ]

Actually, Brian and I tied.

[Brian]

Oh, we tied, Brian. So we came in last place. I like that.

[RJ]

There wasn't even a loser.

[Megan]

Guys, you're getting accused of attendance biased in this 09 pick. I have to tell you.

[Brian]

I think RJ's. RJ's, you know, him going for attendance bias here is kind of like the full circle moment for this podcast because it began as a. As a celebration of Fish shows that we have gone to, the shows that we have experienced. And we, Megan and I have ripped that away from the show and made it about, like, deep seated analysis and conflict and contentious debate. And RJ's like it. I was at Albany 09, you guys. Do you want to know what I was doing while streaming Albany 09?

[RJ]

Yes.

[Brian]

I was looking after a friend of mine who somehow came upon LSD in South Korea and was having a very intense trip. And you're not allowed. You're not supposed to have drugs in South Korea. And I was hanging out in my apartment and he was having a time. Not the greatest time, but he was having a time. And I was like, trying to be an empathetic friend while also being like, I don't know if you realize this, but fish is just like jamming right now. That doesn't happen anymore.

[Megan]

He should have really. Was he a fan? Because he could have really locked in and that could have just changed his whole night.

[Brian]

He was not. We met because he was wearing a Radiohead in rainbows T shirt. And that was as close as the two of us got to sharing in musical appreciation, which is. Which is pretty damn close for me. But yeah, Alex, here, attendance buys hold strong in this 09 pick O. RJ. It's going to be. You still have time.

[RJ]

We have.

[Brian]

We have. We haven't moved on to the next pick. If you want to adjust, you're doing it live anyway.

[RJ]

No, of course not. Of course not. I would never do such a thing. This is. This is the. This is this. This version deserves to be on Rushmore and people who have not listened to it in a while will go back and listen and people will come around and. And I'm expecting if you. I will be here next episode. If you want to come back in the chat and say you went and listened and you apologize, I will accept that. For. We'll leave it open for two months. People can come back and. And say that, you know, R.J. was right. Okay.

[Megan]

And I was just going to say that. That forbin77 was saying that he didn't mean to drop the cold chill on the pod, and I think his asking about the draft coincided with your technical difficulties. It wasn't that. It was us being so awkward. I mean, that is true a little bit, but it wasn't.

[RJ]

Okay, well, we're getting. Are you guys ready for the last one? Because this is one that I didn't even like. If I. When I went into this project, I did not think that this was going to even be on the top nine, but it ended up in the top four, and I'll tell you why. I think we have to. I think that the way that kind of context for how Ghost has changed in the 3.0, 4.0 era has to be represented, because I think it's part of the story of Fish and it's part of the story of the song. We still get great versions, like, you know, Baker's Dozen versions. So great and fun. I got way. I got. The Baker's Dozen version brought me back from the abyss one time, and it was just. That was a great version. But I'm gonna go to a show. I was not at this show. Okay. So I. I don't think. I hope. I should check.

[Megan]

Yeah, maybe.

[RJ]

Yeah, Seriously, if I was, you know, maybe. Okay, I'm going to this jam because I think this is one of the most unique jams in versions of Ghosts because there's this really patient melodic build. And then, like, halfway through, it gets. Trey gets on the Leslie, and then we get into this, like, Pink Floyd section for, like, 10 minutes, and it sounds like Pink Floyd. And then. And then it goes back and shifts again to a really glorious peak. And I think it represents kind of like it represents the modern era in a way that I don't think any of these other versions do because there's a really nice transition from kind of the melodic to the dark. This middle section with the Leslie and Paige on the synths is really pretty unique, I think. And we get a patient and glorious peak. So for the last one, Brian going with 8, 3, 18 from Alpharetta.

[Megan]

Nice. This. I love this jam. Yeah, I love this jam. It's. It's the way they find that really, really sophisticated space with like the kind of moody noodling from Tray on top of it. And it has that huge multi section, I think, thing that has to represent, like you said, just 3.0 and 4.0 ghosts, especially 4.0. I think that's just where it's gone so much. But this jam gets so much done in those 20 minutes and it's one of those where it's hard to tell who's doing what because it's so layered and kind of gooey sounding. So many effects. It's. Yeah. Big swirling peak. Fantastic. Yeah, this. This jam I kept going back to.

[Brian]

This is a great jam. It's a really great jam. Really, really like this jam. A lot of energy in this jam. Very into it. This was on my large extended honorable mentions list. I think the interesting argument here between potentially this and, say, Albany is they do similar things to what Ghost has done in the 3.0 era, in that they flip to that major key and peak really aggressively. So maybe there's an argument against having two versions that do similar things. But I think to your point, by the time we got to summer of 2018, especially coming out of the Baker's Dozen, we knew that Fish could do so much more. They had. They'd figured out so much more from a jamming standpoint. And Ghost, like the versions we have on our list from the Baker's Dozen onwards, the vast majority of these are 20 plus versions, 20 plus minute that explore really wild, weird terrain in a way that Ghost hadn't really in 3.0. And so this does help kick that off. That's a very nice. It's a nice pick in that standpoint, symbolically.

[RJ]

Well, well, I'm. I'm just. I'm just going with my instincts and my, you know, long, long history of being a Fish fan and. And just. And choosing this and, you know, I just.

[Brian]

You're right.

[RJ]

It's okay, you know, it's okay. You'll get. You'll get there eventually. Brian. Brian, what were. Where. Where did we differ and where were we similar?

[Brian]

Well, we were similar in our first two. 11, 17, 97. For reasons we we discuss. That combines everything I want from 97 ghosts, but it also shows what else is possible. 522, 2000. That is me hat tipping to all the smart people out there who keep telling me that one day I'll get it. I'm still waiting for that day. But I do really appreciate the. The approach to this jam and the overall groove in this jam. And the emphasis on Mike. Where we differed is one of the best Fish jams of all time. August 3, 2003. You get like. I was thinking about Ghost in terms of like what does it do in various incarnations and one of the things that it does really well. Said this a couple times, but it goes to that major key and flips to a massive peak. And I know everyone goes on and on about the Holy Ghost. I don't think that there's a peak that they've ever hit better in this song than the IT version. Maybe Prague. But the way that Trey's guitar swirls and swirls as they build and build and then Fishman hits that cymbal like 1340 and the whole band transitions to another side of it. And then you get these weird, wild, ambient, swirling Eno vibes on the last like 15 minutes of it. Super Industrial really shows like the two sides of the song. So 8, 303. And then I agreed with your overall thesis that we need something that shows how this song has evolved and extended into the future. I take your 8, 3, 18 and I just put. Put it forward six years. A different three night run in early August. 8, 4, 2024. I re listened to this today. It has that fully connected 2024 jamming style, but also that idea that kind of anything is possible. That really cool back and forth riffing section around 15 minutes between Trey and Mike. I try to compare all these to another artist. This is my Killers of the Flower Moon type jamming. This is like how in the hell is Martin Scorsese still creating masterful epics as like an 85 year old and he still has more movies in the can. I have no idea. I haven't. I still have no idea how fish played summer 2024. And so there's my. There's my nice pairing for you guys.

[RJ]

Thank you for that. Megan, I want to hear yours. Ed asked what was the Ghost that I thought had Trey's best ever guitar solo that Brian mentioned. 7, 6, 9, 8. I think that's I mean, that. That every note is amazing. Not a note wasted, but. But really is just a Trey solo. And I mean, like, there's no. There's no question that it's like the. It's like the best he has. I mean, there's video of it. It's so many notes, but there's also not a note wasted somehow. So that I think that. I still think that's the best Trey playing ever. Until I change my mind soon. But, Megan, what. What did you have? What did you have?

[Megan]

Yeah, I just wanted to say that Prague Peak, like, blew my mind. And I also love the it. I think the crazy thing about the it peak is that it just keeps going. Like, it just does not stop. And it just gets, like, more and more intense and frenetic. It's incredible. I have similar. We align on two. RJ and Brian, we align on three. But I have a jam on here that I know both of you don't like, and I feel like it's really important, contextually, to have a Ghost from Summer 97, and I'm gonna tell you why. And I know you both don't like this jam the way I do, but I really think the Lakewood Ghost is so important for the band. And like I was talking about earlier when they came out in that summer, Ghost was played at, like, every other show. Like, literally every other show, if not every show. It just. And it blew our minds. And I think this was a time of feeling good and riding the vibes. And I wasn't, like, counting the length of jams or repeats or bust out. I was just going to dance with my friends to my favorite band and hopefully achieve transcendence. And this jam delivered transcendence in the moment. And I know that that's not part of what we are supposed to consider about Rushmore, but I do think it's important contextually, because this, to me, is peak power Fish, but the funk edition, and it's just such an effortless groove, and it lacks that kind of blast off into space dynamics, but it delivers so deep in the pocket. And I think if you didn't have these versions, you wouldn't have the song, and you also wouldn't have the. The kind of launching pad that it. That it becomes. And I think the way that this is just. They're in this crispy, tight, percussive groove, and Paige comes in with the synths, and then that builds to that, like, rocking jam, and the band is yelling and riding the wave. And rj, you've talked about this, like, when it sounds like Trey is kind of like surfing on top of the music. And that's what it sounds like. It sounds so in the moment in a way that is so pure to me. And I love how it mellows into this laxadaisical, jazzy drip. And then it builds back to this dramatic growling and gets spacey and frenetic. And to me, this is a great journey. And it's such an early version of the song that goes so hard and is so beautiful and is so specific to what it is. And I think it seems less than only because of where Ghost has gone now. But to me, it was so mind blowing in the time, in the moment, and just really represents what this song was that summer and how important it is for the band and their sound. So Lakewood Ghost, that's my argument and my. I had then 11, 1797. I had radio City, and I also had deer creek 24. I just think that jam. And I was really deciding between, like Nashville 18 and Alpharetta 18 and then Deer Creek 24, those were kind of my three that I was trying to decide between. Which represents the best huge version, more recent contemporary version of Ghost. But I think the Deer Creek version, just the way that it gets. It has every section that you kind of want, and it has a mellow groove. I think there's an argument to be made that that jam starts out a little bit slower, but then it just builds so huge and gets so dark. And then I love how the jam pretty much ends. It kind of winds down and then it just like gets super intense again and you get that big scenery chewing, dinosaur stomping ending that you kind of want from a big ghost jam. Even though it has, like that horrible transition back into the song. But I think it's so bad I.

[Brian]

Almost took it off because of that.

[RJ]

Right.

[Megan]

It's like, why did you ruin this, Trey? But the Deer Creek version, to me is. Is just huge and monster. So.

[RJ]

So, Megan, were you at the Lakewood show?

[Megan]

Yeah, I was.

[RJ]

Okay, so wait, so. So does that attendance bias or is it only attendance bias when I choose the show I was at?

[Megan]

No, I. I think I said that. I. You know, I definitely feel like there's probably.

[Brian]

Or a jam that you interviewed Trey about, just.

[Megan]

Yeah, there you go. There you go. There you go. But I also will say, I think there's a lot of people that were not at the Lakewood Ghost jam that like it.

[RJ]

Yeah, but I think, I mean, all those. All the ones that you guys had were on my top part of the group of top nine. So, you know, there's none that didn't make that, like, end list. Also, we, as we said at the beginning when we started this, like, two weeks ago, that you could argue for probably 10, I think, to be on top four, maybe more.

[Megan]

Absolutely.

[Brian]

Yeah. This. This song, along with Disease had, have the most honorable mentions of any song that we've covered thus far. Because there are just so many that, like, you just have to throw in there. I want to take issue with one thing. I love the Lakewood Ghost. I will not have. I will not have that giving me.

[Megan]

A hard time about it.

[Brian]

No, no. I love the Lakewood Ghost. It is in my honorable mentions. I think you and a few other people freak out about that jam and overlook other jams that sound almost exactly like it. The one thing that those jams don't have.

[Megan]

Overlook them? Yeah.

[Brian]

The one thing that those jams don't have, that this jam does have is an 8 minute blues solo over the rest of the band just making noise. And I don't understand, like, I don't understand how that section equates a Rushmore version. It is like eight minutes of Trey just going, I'm gonna keep playing this riff and I'm gonna keep playing this riff, and I'm gonna keep playing this riff. And Paige goes like, what? Which sounds really cool, but, like, I don't know what that's accomplishing musically. And it's.

[Megan]

It's fun. It's actually fun. It's a fun part.

[Brian]

I don't disagree.

[Megan]

It's fun.

[Brian]

I don't disagree. I think it's extremely fun. The, like 18ish minutes where Trey and Paige are doing the like. That's awesome. Like, that is hypnotic fish groove, but it's a lot like eating ice cream.

[RJ]

Which is awesome. It feels really good.

[Brian]

But like, when we're, like, talking about foods that are going to give you sustenance and also, like, Is that what we're talking to another place? Well, I think we're talking about the Rushmore versions. Like, we're not just talking about.

[Megan]

I think that's a Rushmore version. You don't have to. But I do because I love ice cream. I would want ice cream.

[Brian]

Well, I would love ice cream too. I love.

[RJ]

I would like to. Can I. Can I just jump in? Because. Because I was accused of also not liking this jam. I also like this jam. I mean, I don't know where it came from that I don't like jam. I love this jam. I like this jam a lot.

[Megan]

I think there was some hate given to this jam. Every time I Dr. I've drafted this jam before, and you both were like, boo. Lake would go. Sucks maybe.

[Brian]

I love it.

[RJ]

We did it.

[Brian]

We did a Beyond the Pond episode about this gem. Like, I don't need my. Like, I love this jam.

[Megan]

I re.

[Brian]

Listened to this jam today to make sure I wasn't insane.

[Megan]

So good.

[Brian]

I love this jam.

[Megan]

But then you. Okay, so maybe you just diss it hard when I choose it for a draft. Okay?

[Brian]

No, I think that sometimes you choose it for a drafting correctly, and then I get voted down by the audience. Like, this is this. It's. It's fine that you like this jam. I. I like this jam. I love this jam. But I don't think it's a top four version. I don't know why that's like a negative.

[Megan]

It's not a negative. It's a top four version for me. It's kind of like my Albany, I guess, for rj.

[RJ]

Hey, everyone has to have one. Everyone has to have one. I mean, it's the enthusiasm of. It's just like the 721 video that we saw during COVID I mean, the enthusiasm is so high. The soundboard is like, so live. I mean, it's really. It's.

[Megan]

Was in the beginning.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, No, I was. I was at, like, I went to shows during that time. Definitely. I was like, there. I was getting cassette tapes of a song called Ghost before I even saw life. And I was like, yeah, same. This is great. This. This song is fucking awesome. You know this song.

[Megan]

It's so fun.

[RJ]

I did have. I did have 7,197 on my list almost the whole time. And then it dropped off today.

[Megan]

So.

[RJ]

So unhinged and just awesome and funky and just. That Europe sound is just amazing. Can I tell you guys just real quick? I think the. And Brian, I have a lot of notes on the IT1, but I don't. That was. That was another one that kind of like was there for a long time. I think the most danceable version of Ghost Bias. I don't think so.

[Megan]

That's a really good version.

[RJ]

They were so. They were so connected that weekend of it. I mean, like, everything is just so light. It's like, well layered. It's like. It just. It's a really amazing version. It probably would. Probably the first one that dropped off the list for me. Um, I think the most danceable version of Ghost ever after doing this Exercise again is 7:20.9. 9. There is, like, Mike is, like, driving the jam the entire time. And it's like that millennial space groove. And it's really. It doesn't do much beyond that. But, like, if you're gonna, like, put on a ghost at a dance party, I think this might be the version because it just is. That's just like. It just does exactly what you want a version like that to do. But I couldn't put it in the top four just because it was like. It's like putting on, you know, can't stop till you get enough, you know, like, it's just. It's just. The point is just that everyone to get down.

[Megan]

I think the. The sections of the 112897 Worcester, which I just love, that is some of the most dancy stuff we've ever played, like, far. I mean, that stuff. Like, whenever I was listening to these, there were some that you just like. I would just have to get up and move. And that was definitely one of them.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I think my biggest regrets in this are not being able to figure out a place for 9, 1299 and 109 99.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I had. I had a lot of conversations with our friend Justin Bruce About 10, 9, 99.

[Megan]

Oh, God.

[Brian]

Because I was like, is this the best jam that has ever been played? And it's. But it. It like, hits exactly what I'm looking for from this band in that, like, October, weird, dissonant sound that they were playing in. But I mean, great call on 1128 97. Like that. Virginia Beach. Personally, I prefer those to Lakewood.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Because I think that they accomplish what that jam does without the extra 17 minutes of my soul intro.

[Megan]

Yeah, I get that. I get that for sure. I love that. 10, 9, 99 Albany. It's so floaty. I can't believe they played that in the middle of a first set too. It's, like, so awesome.

[Brian]

I know.

[Megan]

But I love that Philly Spectrum one too, from 12 to 11.99.

[Brian]

Like, that was a big one.

[Megan]

I mean, God, like, just the middle of the second set. Just like 19 minutes. Just like the way they spend time in the darkness. And then it slowly builds to this swell and the synths then bring it into this rhythmic space and it's just like perfect ambient space soundscapes like. God, the 99, 2000 ghosts are just so sick.

[RJ]

The reason that I couldn't advance 1211, 99 much further is that. That it's basically the 12, 1699 tweezer riff, but only for like, a Short period of time. And, like, because I'm definitely choosing 12, 16, 99. Tweezer in the tweezer. Spoiler alert. I couldn't. I can't have two. Two jams with that same. But it's like, where that riff was born. It's a great, great groove and a wild ending. That's a really good version. I mean, there's so many. It's like. It's ridiculous.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Shout out to 7:30, 99. I don't. I don't think I've ever talked about that with another person, let alone heard anyone else talk about that. That is a killer, under the radar version of Ghost that I. I don't think people are listening to enough. If we're going with our heart. 12, 30, 16 would have made my rush more. But I. I can't. Hence the 5, 22, 2000. I can't just go with my heart here.

[Megan]

There were 730. 99 just is, like, such indie rock vibes. It's like, feels like rippling on the surface of a water. It's like, so. It's just so effortless and pretty.

[RJ]

How many versions did we have, Brian?

[Brian]

Oh, my God.

[Megan]

There were 38.

[RJ]

So. So I had at least. I had at least 10 that I. So I ranked these out of 10 originally, like, initially in the first listen through. And I have at least 10 that are ranked seven out of 10, and then, you know, 10 that are ranked above that. And that's like. That's just. It's so many. Like, you could make the. You could make the argument for. For any of these that we've talked about.

[Megan]

Yeah. I have 13 honorable mentions.

[Brian]

Yeah, I'm right in that same range. Like. Yeah, 38.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And even some of the ones I did not include in my honorable mention is not because I don't like them. It's because I'm, like, trying to be as discerning as possible because I probably could have had 20 to 25 honorable men. Like, none of us have mentioned Shoreline 98. That is the American version of Prague. Like, it's the same sort of style, same sort of part of the set. And just, like, rips, like, it just, like, rips through that set in a huge way that, like, doesn't do much more than, like, Peaks, but, like, shows that Ghost, when employed in that way, like, just hits on a deep, deep level.

[Megan]

Yeah, I love the 7-2-98 from Denmark, that one. I wish we had an archival release of that. So many of the 98s, I want more of them. Out because that has like that, you know, fiery ghost jam that kind of melts into the ambient groove and it's so beautiful and soft how it ends. I love how in 98 the actual song part of Ghost is faster. Like it's a faster tempo. But then they end up the jams are more ambient and spacey. It's so interesting.

[Brian]

Big shout out here in the chat to ECW who is losing his mind over 1128.09 being picked over 723.97. And then in all caps writes, this is serious business. Look, I don't agree with the argument that you're making here, but I do agree with the passion. I'm here for it. And this is part of the challenge that we all deal with here at HF Pod HQ is it really is serious and we have to take it seriously.

[Megan]

Yeah, we take it. We take it serious quite seriously.

[Brian]

And you know, I mean RJ's justification for 1128 09, that was RJ's pick. Let's be clear.

[RJ]

Go ahead. I mean, I don't feel, I'm not like, I'm not ashamed of it. It's a great. No, it's a great jam and if you haven't listened to it, go like put it on. It's. It's impossible to argue with. I'm so sorry.

[Brian]

That is the best way to close out any fish argument is. Yeah, if you think I'm wrong, just go listen to this band more.

[RJ]

Yeah. Come back. I mean, come back and tell me that you, that you still feel that way. That's totally fine. But our, you know, we're doing our job and I knew there were going to be some big feelings, some. Some very big feelings. I hope everyone has, you know, the ability to manage those and in whatever way works best for you because you know, we're all going to have to do it and you know, it's an important, never learned important part of the process.

[Megan]

I will say though, I like this has been probably my favorite one just because I think this is Ghost is probably one of my top five favorite fish songs, I think.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

And I just think like getting to listen to all these versions and think about how much it's changed and what it's done for the band and what it's meant to me and how I feel every time they play it. It was just, it was awesome. So it was the hardest one, but also my favorite.

[RJ]

Yeah. It's just so, so difficult. Okay, let's hear about the fans real quick and then we'll talk about what's coming up next. Okay, so fan vote again. Record numbers, record turnout. So congrats, everybody. We have. Let's see. Sorry, I'm trying to look at this and make sure that I get the counts right. Yep. Okay, so we have 723.97, 11, 17, 97, 522, 2008, 303, which just barely. Barely beats up 7, 6, 98.

[Megan]

Awesome. Yeah. So very similar to so kind of all of ours together.

[RJ]

Yeah. And looking at. Yeah, looking at the. Looking at the. The votes, 2 per 2% of people picked 11, 28. 09. So those 2. 2% of people understand that that's a poor ghost. Jam the rest to the other 98 of you. I hope that you listen. Listen to it again, Brian. What do we have next, guys?

[Brian]

We're going to my homeland next. It's cold, it's icy. You need a lot of layers. It's 2.0. We're doing waves Rushmore next.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Brian]

This is a song with limited offering, but sometimes we found that that creates an even harder version. It's nothing's going to be as hard as, like, ghost disease, bathtub gin. But we are going to waves 10. Fish song for yours truly closes out the best Fish studio album officially released, of course. And we got some killer versions. I've got my list. I'm ready. I feel very good about it. We've got, what, 10 versions. 10 versions for everyone to choose from. A really unique jam vehicle in that this is a song that kind of begins as a jam. We'll get into all this next week. I don't want to hold you guys up, but I'm very excited about this really, really amazing song.

[Megan]

Yeah, I'm excited, too. I love this song.

[RJ]

So now that we've done this Ghost Rushmore, which is extremely hard, we're going to change the redirect. So if you go to osirispod.com rushmore you can vote on waves. Stay engaged. Leave us. You know, if you're really feeling those feelings and if you feel like leaving us, a voicemail is going to help you process this, we're here for you. You can call 484-416-0488. You know, give us your thoughts. We'll share some of those on the air next week when we talk about Waves. All right, guys, anything else? Can we do it?

[Megan]

We did it.

[Brian]

Did it.

[RJ]

All right, guys, we'll see you all next week. Thank you. See you soon.

[Megan]

See everyone.

[Adam]

Sam.

[RJ]

Osiris.

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