Mt. Rushmore: Rock & Roll

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast Episode Summary: "Mt. Rushmore: Rock & Roll"

Release Date: April 3, 2025 | Host: Osiris Media

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Introduction to Mount Rushmore of "Rock & Roll"

At the outset of the episode, host Brian announces the primary focus: selecting the top four versions (Mount Rushmore) of Phish's rendition of "Rock & Roll." The discussion revolves around the significance of different live performances, their impact on fans, and the evolution of the song within Phish's repertoire.

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Reflection on Previous Episodes and Voicemails (01:19 - 02:28)

The hosts briefly touch upon the absence of voicemails in this episode. Megan expresses disappointment over not having listener feedback to discuss, referencing a past episode where they engaged more critically with caller opinions.

Megan (02:28): "I can't imagine why people didn't want to call us after we went a little hard last time on the caller."

Brian offers an optimistic take, emphasizing gratitude toward previous callers and encouraging continued listener engagement regardless of feedback tone.

Brian (02:07): "Thank them for listening and move on...we love. We appreciate your thoughts, your feedback."

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Diverging into Sports Documentaries (02:41 - 04:22)

The conversation takes an unexpected turn as RJ and Brian discuss their favorite sports documentaries, comparing emotional connections to their musical discussions. They highlight the resilience of the Baltimore Colts' band and the profound impact of authentic storytelling in sports media.

Brian (04:50): "I cry every time I watch the 30 for 30 about the Baltimore Colts band...they kept the spirit of the Colts alive."

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Returning to Rock & Roll and Mount Rushmore Voting (04:46 - 07:38)

Shifting back to the episode's main topic, the hosts announce they'll delve into voting results for the Mount Rushmore selections. RJ shares upcoming tour dates and encourages listeners to engage with the podcast's other offerings, including a collaboration with the Femme Flock podcast.

RJ (04:48): "We have a draft coming up next week. We'll talk about it...check out their website repriseband.com."

Megan introduces the "Femme Flock" podcast, praising its focus on female voices in the jam band scene and encouraging listeners to tune in.

Megan (05:47): "I've never actually been in the jam world in a space that was just women, and it was really exciting."

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Discussion on "Rock & Roll" Performances and Jay's Selection Process (07:38 - 30:24)

The core segment involves an in-depth analysis of various live performances of "Rock & Roll." Brian and RJ debate the merits of different versions, considering factors like improvisation depth, crowd reception, and musical evolution.

Notable Versions Discussed:

1. 11/31/99 – Big Cypress

   • Brian (12:24): Highlights this version's energetic riff and seamless transition into an extended jam, emphasizing its significance in Phish's live history.

   "It just hits, and it kind of elevates a show in that standpoint."

2. 08/15/2011 – Long Beach

   • RJ praises the interplay between Trey and Fishman, noting the balance between structured riffs and exploratory jams.

   "It kind of sounds like them realizing that they can listen to each other and jam again."

3. 12/03/2003 – Boston

   • Megan underscores the emotional weight of this performance, tying it to the 20th anniversary of Phish's first show.

   "It's so just absolutely heart-wrenching that they would do that."

4. 08/09/2009 – The Gorge

   • Brian defends this version against skepticism, advocating for its creative jamming and technical prowess.

   "There's so, so much along there. And 8809 is just as chock full of ideas as 87 was."

Quotes Highlighting the Discussion:

RJ (17:27): "Don't hold back. Tell us what you think."

Brian (13:54): "It's the kind of competitive and fun... we've got a draft coming up next week."

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Technical and Musical Analysis of "Rock & Roll" Jams (30:24 - 57:11)

The hosts delve deeper into the musical intricacies of each "Rock & Roll" performance. They explore how different tours and eras influenced the band's improvisational style, touching upon aspects like tempo, melody, and the use of effects.

Key Points:

• Tempo and Jamming Style:

  • RJ compares the song's tempo to "Down With Disease," facilitating seamless full-throttle jams.

• Evolution Over Eras:

  • Brian discusses how Phish's approach to "Rock & Roll" evolved from the late '90s to the 2010s, reflecting the band's maturation and exploration of new musical territories.

• Crowd Interaction and Energy:

  • The energy and responsiveness of the crowd during these performances are highlighted as crucial elements that elevate the jam experience.

Brian (17:01): "It's my favorite cover... how Fish is in a brand new era as a band."

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Listener Engagement and Upcoming Draft Announcement (57:11 - 91:37)

As the episode progresses toward conclusion, the hosts announce an upcoming draft focused on West Coast tour performances. They invite listeners to participate by visiting their website to access draft materials and engage in selecting top shows from various regions.

Brian (84:12): "We are going to draft six shows each from Southern California, Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and then a 1.0 West Coast. And a 2.0 to 4.0 wildcard category."

Megan shares heartfelt listener comments, including one from a dedicated fan in China aspiring to attend a show with his spouse, underscoring the podcast's global reach and community impact.

Megan (80:36): "Listen...mail your wife to a show...we love what we do and think this project is a great way to understand the evolution of some of the music."

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Conclusion and Final Remarks (91:37 - End)

The episode wraps up with light-hearted banter about past discussions, future plans, and mutual appreciation among the hosts. They reiterate the importance of listener participation and tease the next episode's focus on West Coast performances.

Brian (89:10): "We did it. Thanks for coming on this draft adventure with us."

Megan and RJ express enthusiasm for future episodes and encourage listeners to continue engaging with their content.

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Key Takeaways

• "Rock & Roll" as a Jam Vehicle: The episode underscores the song's versatility and importance in Phish's live performances, showcasing its ability to facilitate diverse jamming experiences.

• Evolution of Phish's Improvisational Style: Through analyzing different eras and performances, the hosts highlight how Phish has continually evolved, adapting their jamming techniques to reflect both personal growth and changing musical landscapes.

• Community Engagement: Emphasizing the value of listener feedback and participation, the podcast fosters a sense of community among Phish fans globally, encouraging active involvement in future discussions and drafts.

• Upcoming Content: The announcement of a West Coast tour draft promises further exploration of Phish's dynamic live performances, inviting listeners to engage in the selection process.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Megan (02:28): "I can't imagine why people didn't want to call us after we went a little hard last time on the caller."

• Brian (12:24): "It just hits, and it kind of elevates a show in that standpoint."

• RJ (17:27): "Don't hold back. Tell us what you think."

• Brian (17:01): "It's my favorite cover... how Fish is in a brand new era as a band."

• Megan (05:47): "I've never actually been in the jam world in a space that was just women, and it was really exciting."

• Megan (80:36): "Listen...mail your wife to a show...we love what we do and think this project is a great way to understand the evolution of some of the music."

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This episode of the Helping Friendly Podcast provides an engaging blend of musical analysis, host camaraderie, and listener interaction, offering both longtime Phish enthusiasts and newcomers insightful perspectives on the band's live performances and improvisational prowess.

Transcript

[Brian]

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[RJ]

Oh, wow, a real person. Yep. I am here to help you with.

[Brian]

Everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to. Well, I've got a complicated project. Oh, not a problem. I can even schedule a professional measure and install. We can also send you samples fast and free.

[Megan]

Hmm.

[RJ]

I just might have to do more.

[Brian]

Oh, okay. So the first room we're looking at is for guests. ShopBlinds.com now and save up to 45% site wide. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. Osiris.

[RJ]

Ready? Brian's ready. We're all ready. We're back. We're back. We're talking about rock and roll today. We're talking about Mount Rushmore and rock and roll. The two American. Yeah. Hey, guys. I don't know. I don't have any other.

[Brian]

Two things we took from other people and said, hey, they're now ours. Yeah, I got it.

[RJ]

Exactly.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[RJ]

It's kind of the American way. We're back. I'm rj. This is Brian and Megan. Hello.

[Brian]

Hello.

[Megan]

Hi.

[RJ]

We're gonna talk. We don't have. Sadly, we don't have any voicemails to talk about today.

[Megan]

I can't imagine why people didn't want to call us after we went a little hard last time on the caller. I'm sorry about that, too. I appreciate you calling, and I didn't mean to go so hard.

[Brian]

Yeah. You know, in the words of a wise man, you know, thank them for listening and move on, you know, take your hits. And we. We took our hits and then gave some hits back. And so to our caller from last week, we love you. We appreciate your thoughts, your feedback. If you ever hear this, just know you're welcome. Back in the.

[Megan]

I know. I hope they didn't stop listening. I do think it' helpful to get voicemails like that because then we have something to talk about. So I do really appreciate it. And now, look, we don't have anything to talk about because we didn't get a voicemail that we could argue with.

[RJ]

Kind of sad. Brian, you know what I think about a lot? There's this documentary about the Ohio State Michigan game that I watch every year, many times, and I watched it for.

[Brian]

The first time this year. Yeah?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Did you like it?

[Brian]

I did. It's. I mean, I will. I will get worked up for a historic mano a mano sports documentary. Like, I cry every time I watch the 30 for 30 about the Baltimore Colts band that. The band that never died. And these people that, like, they lost their football team, they lost their livelihood, but they didn't start march, they didn't stop marching in that band. They kept going, and they kept the spirit of the Colts alive for what, like, 15 years until the Ravens came to Baltimore. I mean, one of the greatest moments. Sorry, I'm just going off on a tangent now, but this is your fault. There's a. There's a Cubs documentary about the. About the curse of the Cubs, and they interview Ron Santo, my favorite baseball player of all time. And he. He was diabetic, and he lied about being diabetic so that he wouldn't get cut from the Cubs. And he played his entire career third base. And in the. In the documentary, he. He's. He's being interviewed and he. He says, you know how much I love this team. And he raises up his pant legs and he's had both legs amputated because. Because he's diabetic. And the. The prosthetic legs are blue pinstripes over white with the Cub logo. And he says, I'm wearing my uniform every day of my life. And like, oh, God. So, yes, I love that documentary. You go on now.

[RJ]

Okay, well, the only point I was gonna make is that there's a point where Desmond Howard's interviewed and he's from Ohio, and he won the Heisman Trophy with Michigan. And he said, every time I go to Columbus still, people just yell at me and say, you, Desmond. And I say, thank you. And they say, go ahead, Desmond. And I say, thank you. And he does that, like, little bit for, like, 30 seconds. And that's how. That's. That's how. That's how we help.

[Brian]

That works.

[RJ]

All right. We got a lot. We got a lot to talk about today. We have. We are going to get into rock and roll and thanks, everybody, for voting. We're going to get into the voting results. We're going to talk about the Mount Rushmore versions, which will be chosen by Brian. Man, we got. We got so much. I hope to see some People out there on the road. I'm gonna be. Reprise is playing nectars on the 17th of April and in Broadbrook, Connecticut on the 18th, and then iron Horse in Northampton the next day on the 19th. I'm going to be at a couple of those, so I hope. I hope to see people out there.

[Megan]

Oh, me too. Me too.

[RJ]

Megan too. Megan too. Actually go to hang out with Megan. Not me.

[Megan]

Yeah, I'll be in Northampton.

[RJ]

Megan will be in Northampton. So if you want to come hang out with Megan, come to one of those shows, but mostly to see them. They're great. They're great. And we're announcing new shows all the time, so check out their the website reprise band.com. megan, are there any new Osiris podcasts that we want to tell people about?

[Megan]

There is a new Osiris podcast and it's Women run. It is called the Femme Flock. And I got to sit down with them and it was so awesome. They asked me to come on and I sat down with them last couple weeks ago, and they were so organized and they were so smart and we had such a great conversation. I've never actually been in the jam world in a space that was just women, and it was really exciting. And I think we talked about some things I've talked about before. But then especially in the second half of the conversation, we really get into some stuff that is really interesting and something I've never talked publicly about before. And it was really fun and I really hope people check it out. It's called the Femme Flock. It's an Osiris podcast now. And Jesse and Nick Nikki are just amazing and really working hard, and it's great to have female voices out there and I really appreciate Osiris taking them on and supporting that work. So I want to also really thank them for having me on. It was awesome.

[RJ]

Well, thank you for introducing, you know, introducing their show to our audience by being their first guest on the. I'm sure people already know of them, but it was a nice good timing to have you be the guest.

[Megan]

It really was. It was really fun. And, you know, I got to talk a lot about Osiris on the podcast as well and talk about YouTube as well.

[RJ]

Oh, yeah, that's nice. Look at that.

[Megan]

So much. Talked a lot about HF Pod. Yeah, it was free promo.

[Brian]

Amazing stuff.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely free.

[RJ]

Free promo. That's what we're all about. But give us some reviews or some voicemails or something, guys, because so we have some stuff to talk about or else we're gonna have to talk about what we actually came here to talk about, which is way too soon.

[Brian]

I was checking the reviews yesterday, and I noticed that most of them came in on March 4th, 5th or 6th. It's not like a month out, so you can see the exact date of when it is. Not, like, recently. And I was like, okay, all of you guys, listen to RJ's great command back in February. We need another one. We need more. We need more thoughts. Even the nasty bits. We'll be okay with it. Even if we react in the moment aggressively. We're okay. We love. We were trained on fish Twitter, you know, we understand what it's like when you love something, but you feel like, hey, hey, I got to give it a little bit of criticism. Just do it. It's okay. There's no one that's going to fight you. Except we might on air, but, you.

[Megan]

Know, yeah, it'll make us better. It'll make us better. I mean, one time someone made a comment about me saying like or talking like a Valley Girl, and it stuck with me. And I think I've gotten better at it because I've been really determined to try. So give us your. Give us your feedback.

[RJ]

Not that.

[Brian]

Megan, I don't think you're like a Valley girl. Come on, what's going on?

[Megan]

No, I'm much more of a New York City girl. Come on. They don't know me at all.

[RJ]

Not that Megan's still thinking about that or anything. So, yeah, don't worry.

[Megan]

Not that I'm holding onto that at all.

[RJ]

Okay, so, Brian, one thing we got to talk about quickly. Only in the context of our drafts, which we kind of borrowed from the Big Picture podcast, because on the most recent episode of Bill Simmons Podcast, which I think we both listen to, there do they do a draft of the kind of 25 most intriguing players of the NBA postseason. But his guest is Zach Lowe, who's back. He missed almost the entire NBA season after being laid off from espn, but now he's back with a ringer basketball podcast. And so this overlap of Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons and the Big Picture, all happening right before the basketball playoffs. And I just. I just want to know if you have any thoughts on that.

[Brian]

I have a lot of thoughts, and you're too kind that we borrowed it from the Big Picture. I straight up stole that draft idea from them. I listened to so many movie drafts for like a six month stretch in time. I just got caught up on all of them and I was like, wait, there's got to be a way to do this with fish and make it really competitive and fun. And if we remove the keyword fun, it's still competitive and it's a good time for other people, which we have a draft coming up next week. We'll talk about. But Zach Lowman, I started reading him for the first time in 2012. He was like part of that birth of long form journalism that happened in the early 2000s, which really just meant you don't have an editor. But for someone like Zach, he needed the long form nature. He needed, like, he would post like screenshots of plays as they were in development and then get into like, the weeds of it. And as a basketball fan, it was like graduating from, with like your bachelor's degree and diving into grad school level basketball. And he has, like, such a passion for the game. He's written about, like, teams and eras that nobody thinks about and players that nobody thinks about. And watching his career develop throughout the 2010s and early 2020s to the point where he was, you know, really one of the on air resources on ESPN for their NBA coverage. Right up there with Woj when he was still there. Right up there with everyone on their, you know, Stephen A. With all their, like, Friday night basketball crew. It was amazing to see this like, total, you know, guy who, you know, total nerd writing out of his apartment about basketball as though it was the most meaningful thing in the world. Reach the peaks. And then obviously part of that peak is getting laid off from ESPN and now being at the ringer where he has the opportunity to do almost anything and he's going to be back for the playoffs. It's going to be. It's so great to have him back. I think that his writing, his coverage. I said this to you guys in a thread, but like, to me it impacted how you could write about music and how you could write about movies and you could just pull all of these things together and thread it together in a really complex but really in depth way. I'm so excited to have him back. I listened to that episode this morning on my dog walk and just filled me with nostalgia. But hope for the future as well, which is a fleeting thing right now.

[RJ]

Yeah, we're happy to. To have Zach Lowe back in the podcast world. Okay, Megan, is there, is there anything you want to tell us about the song Rock and Roll? When. When did Trey write it and when did they. Trey start playing it? Stuff like that.

[Brian]

Quite the transition here. My goodness.

[Megan]

Yeah. Just right into it.

[RJ]

We're it's 11 minutes, guys. We're going.

[Megan]

I'm proud of us.

[Brian]

We mentioned the word rock and roll. 11 minutes in. Take note, everybody.

[Megan]

Take note. Take note. I mean, I think this song is just such a great example of how the band is so good and so astute at picking the covers to hang onto. This song just harkens back to the roots of any American rock band, especially a band that likes to subvert expectations and embody a sort of punk attitude. And I think there's an argument to be made that Fish is a fairly punk in its refusal to adhere to like music industry standards and expectations. And I think anyone that has an obsessive love of music, this song just has to hit so deeply. And for me, as someone who grew up, you know, listening to the Beatles and the Stones, this scratches an itch for me just hearing Fish play a song that I heard my parents play on the record player. But this song is obviously offloaded from Velvet Underground. And Fish first played it in Halloween in 1998. And it became a pretty regular part of the rotation after that. Either played at the encore as an exclamation point or kicking off of second set. That was a really popular place for it. It has been played 93 times and 21 times has been on the Jam chart. So a little under a quarter of the times played, it's made the chart. Brian curated seven versions for HF POD Top Versions list and we listened to those and Brian is going to be the one choosing this week which versions are going on Mount Rushmore. Brian, what does this song mean to you? It's your favorite cover?

[Brian]

It's my favorite cover. I mean, I remember reading about Halloween 98 and that part of the issues that people had with that show was that a lot of people hadn't heard the Velvet Underground's Loaded prior to that show. And so it was kind of this unknown moment. I know for me, when I first got The Live Fish Volume 16, I think it is where they cover Loaded. It was the first time I heard it. And I think that you introduced it brilliantly. This song feels like it's a part of the Beatles, the Stones classic rock lore. And it has that R and B kind of roots structure to leans into kind of the meta vibe of rock and roll as a belief system, as a trend, as a movement in a of ways. But then it also has that punkish side. It feels like New York city at like 2:00 in the. In the morning. And to me, this song is. I mean, it's it's punk meeting Indy 30 years prior, 20 years prior in a lot of cases. And so to hear Fish cover that and lean into that, a band that tends to go pretty maximalist with some of their cover choices, but at this period in time, as they're approaching the end of the 1.0 era, are starting to understand and starting to explore who are the bands just below the surface that we should really be promoting. Like, they never really had a moment where they were able to push forward King Crimson or Genesis. These two bands that were really foundational from a songwriting and a song structural standpoint, but like the Talking Heads and the Velvet Underground are almost perfect encapsulations of what Fish was going for and what they achieved by the late 90s. In terms of what I love about this, like, this song rips right out the gates. Like, that riff. You immediately hear it, and the entire place swells up. No matter if it opens itself second set, no matter if it comes midway through. I've seen it as the second song of a show multiple times, actually. I've seen it as an encore. Wherever it's at, it just hits, and it kind of elevates a show in that standpoint. Paige, vocals. I'm here for pretty much any vocals from Paige, and I think that these are some of the strongest he's ever done. The chorus, everybody's yelling. Every single person is yelling. Everyone is happy during the chorus. And this does something that we may talk about this we probably will like. It has this pathway into a jam that I think is similar to Down With Disease in the sense that when this song is happening and when it is exiting, you get this sense. And maybe it's the riff and the way that the riff can be distorted, but it gives you a pathway into a jam segment that feels a little bit easier than certain other songs in their catalog. And it feels like, for a period in time, this was, without question one of the most reliable songs that they could lean into, make a statement songwise, and then know that they had a reliable jamming platform for it.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I think part of it's the tempo, you know, like, in that it's similar to D. Just. It's easy to kind of go into full throttle when you're. When you're already, like, up tempo. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to rain on Brian's parade about the song, but. But I will say that.

[Megan]

Don't hold back. Tell us what you think.

[RJ]

Well, I was Thinking about it today, because I don't. It's not my favorite cover that Fish does. And. And I think part of it is, like, look at the jam chart. You know, like, this. This song is. It's. It's. It's. When. When it's done. I mean, it. Like, there hasn't been a Jam chart entry since 2013. Right. So these. Maybe it's more of a recent thing, because I do think in, like, the late 90s and even, like, 2.0, like, you have 93 versions and what, 20 of them are. 21 are on the jam charts. So that's fine. That's, like, a pretty good percentage. But in the past 10 years, like, once it starts, it's just like, do I want to sing along Rock song? Like, sure, yeah. I mean, I. Who does?

[Megan]

Yes. Rj, you love songs. You love songs.

[RJ]

But I'm saying as like, a. I don't. I don't ever hear it, and I'm. I'm. I don't ever hear it and think, like, all right, here we go. We're in for, like. We're in for a ride. It's like, we're gonna sing Her Life.

[Brian]

Is Saved by Rock and Roll, or there must be something more than this. I'm just trying to figure out which is. Which is the line that we need to be yelling at. No, I. You are absolutely right. And this is. I have it noted here. This is the odd reverse jammer. So many songs that did not jam in early Fish history have somehow evolved into a jam vehicle, obviously. Choctaws Torches, the classic example. And it is funny because when I built this whole plan out for this year of what songs we would do, I was like, well, we got to start early with a cover song just to, like, level set that we're not just doing originals. Like, this is. This is a Fish song, if you will, for all intents and purposes. And then I went through and put in the versions on our overall long list where we would make our Mount Rushmores. And I realized as I was doing it, like. Like, after 2013, this song drops off and just becomes kind of a encore. It kind of. Kind of becomes like a second set closer all the way to the point that, like, it's not really played that often anymore. And it's kind of this, like, very rare thing that I would love for the band to rediscover, because for a period in time, this was one of the most important songs that they had in their arsenal.

[Megan]

Yeah. And I think there's an argument to be made too, where not every song can jam. I mean, it can, and I. I hope they do, but. But Fish doesn't always do that. And this is a song I'd rather hear if they're gonna play a song and not jam it. Like, if they're not gonna jam a song, I'd love them to play Stones. I'd love them to play Velvet Underground. I'd love them to play the Beatles. So for me, I'm okay with that. Like, I love this song as a song. I'd rather it jam, but I'm okay with it if it doesn't. If that makes sense. Like. Like, there's so many songs that they play that don't jam that I'm like, okay, but, you know, I'd rather hear this than fucking Rogue, you know? Like, there's a lot of songs that they play that don't jam that I'd rather hear.

[Brian]

This always with the Rogue shade. I'm just looking at the stats of. The last version I saw was 7, 28, 17. It ended the second set came out of backwards down the number line, which was the backwards on the number line. I was behind the stage and I watched every single one of you losing your mind. And I was like, you're all liars. I see you all on the Internet talking about how you hate this song. I can see you all smiling and dancing. That's for a future.

[RJ]

One of my favorite, favorite live moments of all time.

[Brian]

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But that was the last time I saw this. It has been played 11 times since then in eight years. Only one of those times was not a set to closer or an encore.

[Megan]

So something has changed. It's not in the spot. It used to be. Like, it would never open a second set. Now it would. You know, it's in a different place for sure. The gap's pretty big, right? Like, I think the gap right now is, like, it hasn't been played in, like, 27 shows or something.

[Brian]

Yeah, the last show was 8, 3, 20, 24. So night two of Deer Creek, and prior to that was 8, 25, 2023. So, like, yeah, we're in a pretty decent break. And we haven't had a second set opening version since 102313 in Glens Falls. Really great show, but not a huge rock and roll either. That didn't make our large list.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's not. Just not where Trey goes right now when he wants to play something big.

[RJ]

Yeah, but, you know, that doesn't take away from anything. I'm just saying that you know, I noticed. I noticed that. And I'm not gonna be like, would.

[Brian]

This be, like, if someone was trying to petition for, like, William McKinley to be on Mount Rushmore at this point in history? Is that kind of like, us talking about this song? Is that what this is?

[RJ]

Well, I'm sorry. I just want to respond to your earlier slander about More, which is that I think that. I think that covers have a different. Have a different purpose than originals, you know, like, so to me, I think.

[Brian]

I agree with that.

[RJ]

It's totally fine that this is not that this does not jam. But when. When it starts, I'm not like, I'm. I'm personally not going to be like, this is the best moment of my entire life or show.

[Megan]

But you are. When Moore plays, I love more, I think.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

But I think what Brian's saying, though, is, like, true about the comparison between Moore and this song, because there's a. It's an uplifting, you know, feeling of, like, we're in the right place. We're. We're communing about rock and roll together, you know?

[RJ]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm down for it to be. To exist for sure.

[Megan]

Okay, great.

[Brian]

I'm here for the more episode where we debate the worth of, like, Trey's riffs and, like, how much he saw. He, like, belted out. There must be something more than this.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Go to the tapes to see, like, where was the crowd really reacting and, like, you know, love and light type of thing.

[Megan]

Did you see Evie dude's comment that rock and roll should take Golden Age's spot for a bit? What do you guys think I did?

[Brian]

Well, it's interesting because I don't totally disagree. We're going to talk about a version of rock and Roll in today's episode that was played in a run of shows where Golden Age was played for only the third or fourth time ever, at a time when Golden Age was starting to percolate up and emerge as kind of this. It's something I hadn't thought about until just now. Like, Golden Age has almost taken its slot. You know, it's like this new New York City punk, indie, whatever band, TV on the Radio. Like, they're kind of a lot of different genres of music all smashed into one. And this song that has, like, kind of a meta take on things has now become what rock and roll once was for phishing. I don't know if the band is thinking about it on that sort of level, but I could see argument be made that, like, Golden Age takes a Little bit of a step back. Rock and roll takes a step forward. Same vibes, big jams. Come on, who's complaining?

[Megan]

I'd be down for that too. I like the song better.

[RJ]

Can I just. Can I say something that's slightly controversial, especially on this. In this forum?

[Brian]

No, you're not a podcast. There's no controversy allowed.

[RJ]

I think. I think Goose does such a better job at choosing covers than almost any other band. And I just. I just want to, like, I just want to let. Just want to put that out there for you guys.

[Megan]

Goose is very good at choosing covers. I agree.

[RJ]

I think they like. It's. It's a mix of like contemporary and classic songs. It's songs that like, fit well with their vibe. I think Vish does too. But I think like you said Brian at the beginning, and I only mean this in the context of like being in kind of an up and cominging band, which Fish was once. It was like Zappa, Zeppelin, you know, Stones. Like, they weren't. They weren't playing. Like, what if Fish had played some of those songs that were popular in like 1989, you know, or like. Or like an early 90s song or like take. Take a. Like a. Just kind of an obscure song and make it. Make it their own. I don't know. I think that's really interesting.

[Megan]

It always felt differently when they did it. Like, you know, when they did that summer of covers always felt more like a novelty for Fish.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

You know, and like, I think they're really good at picking covers that last. I think especially their Halloween albums have proved like really great ground for that. But I do think that it always felt funny when they played contemporary music. I don't know, it just felt where. Where I think, like, you know, Goose, you think of a song like no. California, which I'm obsessed with, that cover is just. It's so obscure and it's so perfect for them. I know Brian might disagree, but I do think that kind of hits what they're good at doing. But yeah, I find that interesting. I haven't really thought about that enough to know if I think they do it better than. Than a lot of other bands. But I do think Goose does a nice job of it.

[Brian]

I think Fish sounds like Fish in a way that made it hard for them to take on different sounds and different bands.

[Megan]

In a lot of ways, I think you're right.

[Brian]

Which is, I think why, like, when they decided to cover a full Beatles album, they chose the White Album, which is like the Beatles trying on a Bunch of different sounds and a bunch of different ideas. I think Goose is both very, very, very good at picking cover songs and very, very, very bad at picking cover songs. And I think Fish. Are they bad at it? I don't know. I don't know of any Fish covers off the top of my head that I really don't like. There are some Goose cover songs that I find downright offensive. But, you know, this is not a Goose podcast. Maybe we'll bring this discussion to Ryan Storm.

[Megan]

You love the Ghostbusters rap. Come on. Come on.

[Brian]

Yeah. No, nothing has made me question whether or not I made a wrong decision to dive into a band, then when they hint at and then jump into the Ghostbusters rap. What a cool moment, guys.

[RJ]

Well, I mean, what would you rather have, the Ghostbusters rap or rap or the Big Ball Jam? I mean, take it.

[Brian]

Well, the Big Ball Jam's not a cover. The Big Ball Jam is, like, maybe worse.

[RJ]

I'm just talking about offensive moments.

[Megan]

It's so offensive. Hate that.

[Brian]

Compare it to, like, 16 different Mike Gordon songs. Okay.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[RJ]

All right, Brian, are you ready? Are you ready to do the honors? Are you, like. Do you feel. Do you feel like you can do it?

[Brian]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm totally ready. Um, are you ready?

[RJ]

It's. It's time. And I'm sorry I. I made such an abrupt jump, and now it's 27 minutes in and we're about to do our first Mount Rushmore pick, and it feels like, I don't know, would you guys want to talk about something else? Like.

[Megan]

No, I'm curious. I'm really curious about where Ryan's going. I'm really curious.

[Brian]

I. I just want to comment on right after you made that, that you jumped into something where I didn't want to interrupt you. Shocking, I know, but Kevin just. Just noted there was a hard cut. And it made me think that it was actually more fitting because we were talking about Zach Lowe and his breakdowns of NBA plays, and it was like. It was like you, You. You cut across the middle. Nobody was seeing you come there. You just got the ball. You should. You shot a beautiful mid range jumper. It was amazing.

[Megan]

It was already the second time sports had been discussed on the pod, so I felt grateful that we were exiting the talk. Not that I'm ungrateful to listen to that, because it's interesting.

[Brian]

What are the times that we talked about sports? This is interesting. You have this, like, tracked down to a side.

[Megan]

No, in this episode, you were talk before documentaries. No, I Don't have a running catalog, Brian. I can barely remember what happened today. I definitely can't remember what we talked about on the pond.

[RJ]

Brian. You know who does a lot of really good cutting? The Cleveland Cavaliers. As I learned today from Zach Lowe, they do.

[Brian]

I still don't know. Similar to if. I don't know if. If we're going to get a Similar to I don't know if we're going to get another rock and roll type 2 version. I don't know if the Killing Cavaliers are actually going to contend for the NBA title. I think this is a very nice season that is going to end in horror for them. VT to boot asking, is it time for the Bulls? Oh my God.

[RJ]

Don't get him started.

[Brian]

Don't get me started. Okay, let's get me started here.

[RJ]

Do it.

[Brian]

Okay. So sorry, Bryce. Rock and roll debuts on 1031 98. And I'm just trying to pull up this information here. I've lost it now. Nevermind. And it kind of lingers for the next two years. It's fun. There's a couple cool versions throughout 98 into 99. But it really comes to a head with a version that has to go on this list. Both for. There are four minutes of nearly perfect groove jamming which we're going to talk about, followed by 15 minutes of we have to play until like 7 o'clock in the morning. What are we going to do? Oh, let's just do washes of sound. It feels like the first kind of like reset and break of Cyprus in some ways. This is the cypress version obviously. 1231, 199930 minute monster. Shortly into the show set the main set of Big Cypress. This is bouncy and contagious. It's airy and atmospheric for the back half. This version I feel like is the best way I can describe it is Lou Reed's fantasy for this song because this takes the idea of rock and roll and breaks it down while also still like raging in a really unique way. Like. But they still figure out a way around 12 minutes. I've got it noted at 12:40 to break the jam down into a rhythmic but like still shimmery groove all built around John Fishman on the cowbell. Like this is as much of a more cowbell segment as we've ever gotten in Fish. And like when you hear it, you just can't help but like your shoulders start to move a little bit and I get this big smile on your face. And it goes on for almost four minutes. And the Band just sounds happy. They sound higher than life. And it feels to me when I listen to this version, like they've unlocked what rock and roll can be. It's not just a raging solo. It has more to say as. As rock and roll evolved throughout the latter half of the 20th century, you can hear that happening in a microcosm here. It then totally disperses and moves into this very atmospheric segment from like 1645 to 2550, roughly speaking, before building back up again into the chorus. We're probably going to talk about that segment because there were some shots fired about it in the group thread. But I don't personally see how you don't have how you have a list of greatest rock and rolls without this because of what it accomplishes, because of the contagious factor to it, and because of the importance of this being, you know, one of the crowning achievements of Big Cyprus. But I'll yield the floor for a few and let you guys share your thoughts on number one 1231 99.

[RJ]

Well, Megan, can I just go ahead, RJ, to Brian's slander? No, that's just facts, RJ.

[Megan]

It's actually not slander. It's just facts.

[RJ]

We're gonna have to get involved. I mean, so we, you know, starts around 1:30 in the morning and, and, and is part of Fish's most famous concert. So like, you know, great, like put it on there. It's got to be on there. I think the, like the slow and spacey part, you know, it's kind of in the middle after the like bluesy jam is, is cool. I think there's some cool moments. I think it kind of drags for a while and I think looking at this as a, as a going back and I've obviously listened to it a bunch of times in the past, but more in the context of this long set. And I think the, I think you're right that it has to be there. I think there are some interesting and good notable moments. But I also think if you look at it on paper and you see like 30 minute rock and roll, you're like, like you're expecting something maybe more propulsive, especially in the context of the like end of 99. But also it's. It's 1:30 in the morning, a big cypress. So like, you know, all bets were off in terms of, in terms of what they were going to do. But I agree with you that it has to go on Mount Rushmore. I just don't. It's not my favorite version and I Think I was slightly surprised when I listened to it out of the context of Big Cypress, that I wasn't as excited about it as I thought I was. This is like, basically the whole pod is just me saying that I don't like stuff.

[Megan]

So, I mean, this is a real shift. This is a real change of roles here. I like it.

[Brian]

It's a hard cut.

[Megan]

It's a hard cut. Not having the archival release of this really affects your ability to fully understand this version. I think it's a crime that we don't. But to me, this version is so fluid, and each of the three sections are really patient. And to me, it really captures that nowhere to go for days Big Cypress vibe, which I think is so awesome. And I really love that quiet section. It swells. It pulses so softly. And I love how it gets really dark and it gets kind of build is so driven by Fishmen and swirls into that, like, dark, fiery ending. And it was all right. Quotes the end really faintly. I love this version. I really want to hear it archivally released, and I'm glad it's on our Mount Rushmore.

[Brian]

I don't think that RJ is making incorrect points, and I think that Megan's call for this to be released more than 25 years after the fact is like, what is this, like, your biggest.

[Megan]

Show all the time? You don't have your biggest show of all time on your app. That's insane.

[Brian]

Are we waiting for all residuals to just, like, be gone and in, like, the 23rd century, we're gonna release this?

[Megan]

Someone. Someone on Blue Sky. I posted this and someone wrote and said. I emailed Kevin Shapiro about this, and he said that they'll release it when the band is ready.

[RJ]

So that's awesome.

[Megan]

Ready.

[RJ]

I think it's like an insurance policy. That's only. That's like, the only rationale, you know?

[Brian]

I think you're right. I just.

[Megan]

Right, like.

[Brian]

Well, I think the one thing I want to tread lightly here, but some things happen at Cyprus, okay? Like, Cyprus was an all night event. And to make sure that you could stay up all night to perform for all these people took some feats of strength. And the one wonder I do have is this is around the time that a set ends in a normal show is during this rock and roll. It's about 90 minutes. Where's the band's head at when they realize, like, shit, we just played a full set of music and we have to do this four more times? And so I do wonder if part of the length of this was allowing themselves the ability to recharge because there are other jams in the show where that clearly happens. That said, I don't want to be pushed into a corner where I have to talk crap about a version that I have walked down the streets of foreign cities, blast into my ear, going like this, being like, fuck, this is the happiest music I've ever heard. It's a great, great jam. Does it stretch on a little long? Sure. But that is also kind of the deal with late 1.0, which we've explored in a number of other series, and we will continue to explore until the end of time, because that question of what happened at the end of 1.0 is kind of one of those unanswerable. Well, it is answerable, but unanswered questions that we all kind of are constantly thinking about.

[Megan]

I'm kind of here for the meandering lately. I mean, I told you this in our text thread, but I'm. Lately, I've just been into the space. I've been into the exploration into the patients, into the. You know, one thing that is, like, so amazing about 4.0 fish is that, you know, we've talked about this, but they can just drop into a jam so quick. They never spend any time having to meander now. And that makes them very sophisticated and clean and fascinating. But sometimes I just like a little bit of wandering.

[RJ]

Yeah, that's. I mean, I think.

[Brian]

Go ahead.

[RJ]

Well, I was just going to say. Well, first of all, if you haven't listened to the series about Big Cyprus called After Midnight, where Trey talks for hours and hours about Big Cypress, you should, because it's really fun.

[Brian]

Love the mic drops from you. My God. You know, I produced series on.

[RJ]

No, I didn't say anything about me. I just listen to it.

[Megan]

If they haven't listened to it and they're listening to this, I'm confused.

[RJ]

Yeah, well, I just want to. It's called plugging the material that you create, Meg. Come on.

[Megan]

It's so good.

[RJ]

Come on. But I also just want to say first, for whatever reason for this Mount Rushmore series, I'm going for, like, blow me away or get the out. If we're talking about. So, like, this, like, you know, there's cool segments thing. Come on, you're out. Get out of here now. Looking for cool segments. I'm looking for. Let's go start to finish. So that's what I'm going for. But I'm glad you're. I'm glad that we all have Our own, you know. You know, opinions.

[Brian]

Everybody's got opinions. Let's take the theme that Meg was just talking about, though. The wandering nature and the 3.0, 4.0 nature. Because I had to make a very difficult decision here, guys. Okay.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

So curious.

[Brian]

I'm sure you did. My. My original list went from 123199 to 122, 2003. A jam that I hold so dear. I still remember the first time I listened to that. Smoking a tiny little pipe in my dorm room and, like, blowing it out the window when the soundboards dropped and my friends and I downloaded it in our dorm, putting the towel under the door type of thing. Like, very classic college experience. And that version goes into, like, this, like, Mike nitroglycerin tone that he played throughout 2003, and then moves into this just very happy. But like that. That tone Tray has. It's so dirty. It's so raunchy and like, it is. It is the. The yang to all of the yin of 2003. Like, you get these dark, dismal places throughout 2003. And this is, like, joyful, beautiful, uplifting chords. But as I thought about it, there's another version that I think unfortunately does what that did better, which we will talk about, which meant that there was a jump here from 123199 to 8511 from the gorge. This is in the same realm as the light that Meg talked about last year from over last week from Tahoe 2011. This is the storage jam being unlocked. The theremin is, like, making its appearance back in live fish setting. And out of nowhere, Paige gets up. Like, the whole stage was red and smoky and there was nothing around you because it's the Gorge and the sound is just emitting from the stage. I was at this show. I remember, like, being like, this is probably the greatest moment of my entire life right now. This is like, along with the 102013 Tweezer. As close as I feel like Trey has ever gotten to sounding like Ira Kaplan from Yola Tango, this version grooves, it descends into the netherworld, it reemerges. It figures out a way into Meat Stick that's really inventive. I put this on here because we have to absolutely have a early 3.0 version of this song. If you look at the Jam chart for rock and roll, you get 1, 2, 3, 4, 409 versions for three 2010 versions and four 2011 versions. And I think that's the most out of 21 entries here total. That is the most, like, the the pack, the most packed space for rock and roll. And there's some great, great versions in here. Great versions that are being left off like 8820-091121-09626-201067, 2011 but this version is kind of the culmination of all of those in that it doesn't open the set, which it was wont to do during that period in time, but it really kicks off the set in earnest. And it takes the kind of propulsive groove and celebratory groove that came out of so many jams and was part of the reason I said earlier that this song has such a great entry point into jamming. Similar to Down With Disease but immediately turns into dystopian weird sci fi space mind fuckery textures. The likes of which we were not hearing from Fish in August, before August 2011. And that many people up until that point in time wondered could they ever get this dark and this weird and this abstract again? And this jam not only solidified for so many of us that yes, they can achieve this again, but also for. This song really showcases what it can do. Kind of in the argument that RJ is making that it had 30 minutes to do all this stuff in the Cypress version. It kind of shrinks that down to 20 minutes and gives you even more in some cases and really showcases kind of the diversity of jamming. I think you said at some point in our text thread the sophistication of jamming during this period in time. You really just hear a band that is tapping into something that is next level for them. So 85, 2011. Amazing stuff.

[Megan]

I am so shook by you skipping 2.0. I'm just like shocked about that.

[RJ]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Megan]

It's gonna take me a while to like process that. I gotta be honest.

[Brian]

Honest. In the Mount Rushmore series, you know.

[RJ]

There'S a couple that I. I'm. I can't. That. That I'm. I'm just. We're just gonna have to talk about. Let's do it. You passed over. But we will, we will in due time.

[Megan]

Yeah, we will talk about them. This version though, is. Is definitely was on my list as well. This gorge from 2011, it's unbelievable. I love that watery section that it gets into like halfway through. It just. It's so good. And Fishman is like driving it. But it's really softly but urgently. It's so great. The rhythm section is just unbelievable in this jam. And that deep groove that Mike finds. It's it's so good. And the super spooky ending. I. I didn't want this jam to end. I listened to this jam a lot this week. It's fantastic. Definitely on my list as well.

[RJ]

Yeah. And they, you know, this is the first show after a break of what, a month after Super Bowl.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[RJ]

This is so, like, came back and.

[Megan]

They came back, like, with the storage jam. They were like, let's go. Yeah, it's with us now.

[RJ]

Yeah, there's some. There's like some minor key chord jamming that Trey is doing in here. That's really cool. And it's just. It's all. Yeah, it's weird and spooky and all the things you already said. Really? It's a good version. It's a really good version.

[Brian]

Tell me what I missed. What did I go past?

[RJ]

Well, we have to give ours, so I think we'll give ours.

[Brian]

Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah. Or else we're just going to talk about all them because there's not that many anyway, which we can also do because it's our show. We can do whatever we want. But the thing that we have to do is take a break. So we'll see you in a minute.

[Brian]

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[Megan]

2.

[Brian]

Selection varies by location. While supplies last. I was never really a runner.

[RJ]

The way I see running is a gift.

[Brian]

Especially when you have stage four cancer. I'm Ann. I'm running the Boston Marathon. Presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life even with cancer. Join bank of America and helping Anne's cause. Give if you can@b of a.com supportan what would you like the power to do? References to charitable organizations is not endorsement by bank of America Corporation. Copyright 2025.

[RJ]

All right, Brian, you skipped over 2.0. You skipped over early 3.0. You went straight to. Straight to 2011. Where are we going next?

[Brian]

So this is kind of where we get similar to what you did with Hood. Similar to Meg's take on light. We get a sense of the era where A song is at its strongest, and I think that it is. I think that this is the. The point where we see rock and roll during this period in Fish history is one of maybe three or four songs that they know, in a pinch, they can go to. You know, if they're walking on stage for set two, what do we open with? Okay, let's play rock and roll. And they know there's a good chance that it's going to lead somewhere great. And so we jump ahead one year to a version that. I don't think it was as shocking in its delivery as 85 11, but I think in a lot of cases, foreshadowed and was as important in terms of Fish's overall development as they were making that great shift back to a reliably experimental rock band. And that is 8:15, 2012, from Long Beach. This is 25 minutes. I want to say. This opens. The second set, broke Justin Bieber's mind. He was never the same after this. This is abstraction as a state of being. This is that, you know, holy, they can still do it moment. This is. If I'm going to make, like, a non Fish musical comparison, this is Phish channeling bands like Stars of the Lid. This is the band realizing. And somewhere in 2011, 2012, they came to this understanding once again, that they could hang in a musical space. And if they hung in that musical space, something would happen. And the music that they were playing during that space would intrigue enough people that they wouldn't lose the audience and that they would still throw out these little bits of communication to each other, even when they weren't moving towards a rock peak. And at some point, they would figure something out. And from here you'll hear, you know, the Bill Graham second set from night three, the St. Louis second set, all across Dick's. The chalk dust, the undermine, the light, the sand. All of these moments, the tweezers from msg, the disease from msg. All of these moments where the band is realizing in the moment that just stay, Just be. Just be in this space. And it's an interesting counter to the Cypress version we talked about, because I think that the one negative that you can say about that is that on the back end, they kind of allow for this space, but don't really offer a ton of ideas within that. And one of the kind of the touchstones of this shift in jamming in 2012, 2013, the baby's mouth kind of coined this. If you guys remember the blogosphere back in 2012, 2013, this cubist jamming, where you were in a musical space and you threw out an idea, and then they distorted that idea and saw what happened with that idea, and then someone would evolve it to another space, and you kind of had this cubist style jamming, where it wasn't super fluid in a lot of ways. It was more like one idea stopping point, another idea stopping point, and going back to this and listening back to the way that the band was approaching playing rock and roll at this point in time and playing just a jam in general. You just almost hear them in the moment realizing what they can still do and what. What. What will help unlock whatever the next phase is. So I'm a huge fan of this. I think that there's no way. There was no debate about this jam. It had to be on this list. I think it's one of the strongest jams of the 3.0 era, and I think it's one of the strongest jams of this song. I think it has to be here.

[Megan]

Yeah, this is on my list as well. Thinking about, like, when this was too, is really interesting. You know, jamming had started coming back, like, more consistently that June, and then this is, like two weeks before the Fuck youk Face show. And this jam, I love this jam. And going back to it just. And listening to it a bunch this week, it's so patient. And I think what you're saying, Brian, too, is really true. And it almost, to me, at times sounds like a Grateful Dead jam and that it's really spacious and airy and wide open. And I think there's parts of it that, especially at the end that get really eerie and start to feel really agitated. But it's super compelling. It has a very good ending. And I think the delicate section in the middle is just. It's so confident and quiet and. Absolutely love this jam. This is definitely one of my favorites.

[RJ]

Yeah, there's. They're starting to figure it out at this point, you know, in terms of how to. How to put these long jams together. It's. It's really quiet in so many. So many places, which is cool. And it's set to opener. That's, you know, huge. Yeah, I think it's. I mean, I definitely think it should be on the list. I think there's. There's some serious, like, meandering in there, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it's like. That's the. That was. That was my notes. There's, like, a lot of. A lot of meandering back and forth Which I think is. Which I think is good, you know, because then they kind of like come back and. And bring it to. Bring it to kind of a peak and then. And then there's like some post peak jamming in there. Yeah, it's. It's a lot.

[Megan]

Do you think it works better than the Cypress meandering?

[RJ]

Well, I. I think there's just so much more going on. But again, maybe it's because maybe you told me that I. That I need to listen to the soundboard, which I. That's big Cypress, which I.

[Megan]

You've never thought that before when I told you. Right.

[RJ]

Now that you mention it, that does sound like a good idea and I'd like to do that. But yeah, I mean, it just feels like there's. I don't know, kind of like what we were talking about with 3.0 and 4.0. There. There. There are times when it just. There's just. They're all like. Especially as we're doing this project, I'm realizing that they're all. They're all just working together in a way that just sounds so much more interesting and more layered. And I think you hear that a lot here. Even when it's like slow and kind of like patient.

[Brian]

You know, this also, like, in this jam, you know, this. This is connected to some of the big jams of the early era that are not rock and roll. And I think about, like the Albany Seven Below and Ghost. I think about the. June 11, June 3, 2011 down with disease. You know, these moments in early 3.0 where the band was showing we still have the ability to take this beyond 17 minutes and we're still okay with the unknown. I think one thing you may not be deliberately saying, rj, but I think you're hinting at, and I agree with is. And it's a lot easier to say this in. In hindsight now than. Than, you know, in the moment. There were a lot of, like, online battles of like, fish is never going to get it back. Yes, they will. This is my 30 seconds of proof that Fish will become fish again. No, those are 30 seconds are the outliers. Like, I think that they maybe may not have communicated this, but I gotta believe it was there. We're not going to just jam for the sake of jamming. And I think that they knew that there was a period in their history where some really great jams came out of it, but they did jam for the sake of jamming, and they wanted their songs to really dictate who the band was they wanted there to be a different level of flow and a different level of musicianship from what people had been used to over the previous 10 years. And so it took a while for them to get to a point where they could play a 25 minute long jam and also be comfortable with space, also be comfortable with nothing happening. Knowing that within that they've kind of guided themselves towards melodic communication that was really going to benefit them long term. And I think you just. You get that in this version. That elevates it even above rock and roll as a song, as a. As a jam vehicle itself.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. I don't. I feel like there's. There's a lot of letting go in. In the middle part of this jam, you know, that like, they're not trying to. They're not trying to do anything, but I feel like part of that is. Is not. Is not trying.

[Brian]

Right. And I think that's really. It was really hard for them to do at that time.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it started to, like, started to pick up around this time. So you can hear it. It's like a good. It's a good, like, post of where they were, you know, and we'd hear.

[Brian]

Yeah, so many jams like this going forward. So this is three or four. So we've got. What is it now? We've got Washington, Jefferson, I guess, in order. Roosevelt comes next and then Lincoln comes afterwards. So Lincoln is the. The capstone, even though that's out of order and it messes with everyone.

[RJ]

Yeah, they just found that extra space in there. You know, there's another space.

[Brian]

Why don't we do Teddy? He'll get pissed if we don't.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Come out of the grave.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

All right, so last version, do you guys have anything else you want to say about the Long beach version?

[Megan]

No, no, I think I said it all. I'm glad it's on there.

[Brian]

I just remember interviewing Dan for who's Dan Cantor, I think is his last name. The guitar. Justin Bieber's guitarist, who's also a Fish fan, who took Justin to the show and he talked about how he was so happy that Bieber got a long jam like this during his first show, because it was like the real Fish experience. Like he needed something that was like, wait, when does this song end? All right, so our last version. So this was my late entry. This was for a time my only honorable mention. And then I re. Listened to everything and said, you know what? I think ultimately this version says what I Feel like needs to be said about rock and roll as a song and as a jam vehicle. Better than the original version I was going to put on, which was 12, 2, 2003. And that is 7, 12, 13 from Jones Beach. This opens one of the best second sets of that summer, which is coming off of one of the worst first sets of that entire year. A first set that was a perfect combination of sideways rain at Jones beach and fish being like, hey, does anyone want to hear this song? And then they play that song. And then they're like, hey, how about this song next? And it's all songs that people are like, can you just play that the night before? I see you guys.

[RJ]

Wait.

[Megan]

It sounds like you're Talking about the 2009 show from Jones beach, which is the exact same way. Sideways rain and a bunch of shit nobody wanted to hear.

[Brian]

It was like that. And then they came out for the second set and RJ was there. So he can give like an actual, like a read on this. Because people who are there get it more than people who are listening from, like, cheap motels in Southeast Asia. But Trey walks out on stage and says, we're practicing safe music up here because, you know, they could get electrocuted and nobody wants them to get electrocuted. And they play rock and roll, which I think is the perfect vibe. It's. It's exactly what I'm talking about with this song. When in doubt, your life was saved by rock and roll. There might be something more than this, but there may not be. It just might be that your life was saved by rock and ro. And they do this thing that I think has happened three other times in this song's history. And the other times are 1031, 98, the original version, 12 2, 2003, and 882009, which recommended an 09 jam. What is wrong with you? No, please go and listen to this 23 minute rock and roll that rare that barely breaks out of rock and roll for 23 minutes, but is so worth listening to. This takes those three versions and is like, now Fish is in a brand new era as a band and this song barely gets out of the rock and roll key. It's right there. It is fun, it is gooey. It is clean and clear in a way that 2013 fish jamming was to like, an absolute peak. It's like there's no effects that are used here. This sounds almost like early Beatles in the sense that, like, let's just strip it down to like, the bare parts of what you need to hear us play music. No effects, no weird noises. Let's just like play riffs and then you comment on those riffs and then let's just see where that goes. And it ultimately goes into a 2001, which then goes into a really, really cool second set. But this version is kind of to me like, you know, Lou Reed would pass away about four months from here and by all accounts he never heard this version of rock and roll. But you would almost imagine he listens to this version is like, okay, that's exactly what I was going for. That, that vibe, that energy stretched out, you know, is exactly what I was going for. I love this jam. I love the set. That's not the reason I picked it. So, you know, to people saying that you just pick these songs because you. I cut out one of my favorite versions, maybe my personal favorite version of rock and roll ever for this because I think that this says more about what rock and roll is to Fish, what this song can ultimately mean as a jam vehicle. And then in the setting meeting where Fish was at at that point in time, at like a very peak period in time, just ahead of the Tahoe Tweezer, ahead of fall 2013, one of our favorite tours of all time. This just has that entire vibe to it. So curious your guys thoughts here.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean that like the. The ev. Dude says here like there's so much room because so many people left at Sep break during the show. It was one of the wildest shows I've ever been to. The rain. Like people were underneath the main. There's only like really one place in the whole. In the whole place where you can get out of the rain, which is like the, you know, under the balcony area or whatever that thing's called.

[Megan]

It's like that like cross that like section where all the spinners go, which is like. Yeah, yeah.

[RJ]

So there are people like crowded in there. In the first set. This, this. The songs were like. It was a pretty boring set. It was not very inspired. There's a Reba that's kind of weird. There is like a decent David Bowie that ends the set, which gave everyone a little bit of hope. But a lot of people left at separate. A lot of my friends I was with, people were like, we're out of here. Like because it was pouring rain sideways. It was really pretty uncomfortable for. In a lot of ways the reason that he said we're playing practicing safe music is because they were putting plastic covers on the piano and on all the wedges.

[Brian]

Oh, at that point. Okay.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Yeah. So that was the dad joke from Trey. But they were. I feel like you said it well, Brian. Like, they. They just, like, came out just to let loose, you know? And they were really locked in together in that jam in a way that I think they pick up the pace toward the end and then get into this, like, blissy jam. The net jam chart says that Trey is using the pitch shifter too much. That doesn't really bother me in this at all. I think it's actually. I think it works really well in the jam itself. But I think it's a great jam and a great way to start the set. That was really, really awesome. But, yeah, I agree. This was on my list. I think it's worthy.

[Megan]

There's something special when you see the band in extreme weather. I always remember those times, especially I was thinking when you were talking about the plastic, about. I was remembering in Wilmington two summers ago during that Oblivion jam, when they came out and they covered Paige, he was actually under the plastic because it was raining so hard. It was so crazy. And then they stopped the show, and that was insane. Yeah. It's interesting. I did not have this version on my list. Reba has thoughts about it as well. I love the. The early peak and then the jam after the peak in this version. But I felt like this version never really. I think it's what you're saying, Brian, about how kind of it stays within rock and roll. And so for me, it just didn't kind of go where I wanted it to go. I think the other version that I had on here, I just find more compelling. But I'm gonna go back and listen to this again. I think I may have missed something.

[Brian]

When I was listening back to it, I had a moment. I was driving home from work, and I was listening to it, and I had forgotten about. There's a moment about, like, 12 and a half, 13 minutes in where Trey is kind of looping these riffs, and Fishman has been playing this very driving beat that's like, kind of just, like, pushing the song towards a peak. And, you know, summer 2013, they changed their stage setup so Fishman would be right behind Trey, but, like, basically on level with him because Trey wanted to actually hear the drums, and he felt like he needed that relationship with Fishman for them to take another step forward. From a jamming standpoint, I think this jam is a perfect example of that move, because you can hear Fishman. Maybe it's a look. Maybe it's just, like, a better angle to Hear Trey and see what he's doing. Fishman immediately adjusts, and he shifts into what Trey is doing. And then for the last six minutes, there's a lot of. It's a little subtle. It's not, like, as deliberate as, say, like, the Gorge version from two years earlier, but there's a lot of. Like this. Yes. And jamming and the fact that it happens with nearly zero effects. You're absolutely right. There's the pitch shifter in there. That's something that everybody complained about during the first four or five years. And I'm on the exact same page with you, rj. I think it really works here. I don't think it sounds annoying. I don't think it takes away. I think it works with, like, the kind of wave, like, jam that's happening. Happening as we're going forward. But this. This reminds me almost of, like, another 2013 jam, the Karini from Atlantic City, that if you listen to that, like, Trey's almost taken every effect off. And you're just hearing the pure guitar for, like, four or five minutes there. And you got this sense during that year that the band was trying to just say, how do we break things down to as basic a level as possible? But. But we are a stronger band than we were four years earlier when we came back. And you contrast that with today, where, like, every jam has layers and layers of weird sounds and synths and effects on it. It's a very different version of Fish that. I think I'll be curious to hear what you had on it instead of this. And if it was the reasons I almost had a certain jam on instead of this versus when I came around right before this and started chiseling into stone and there's no way to go back and now.

[Megan]

No, no. I support you.

[RJ]

I think that the picking, the. It's an interesting point about the stage setup, because there's a. I think I mentioned this just briefly, but, like, they pick up the pace toward the end before that, like, peak, and it just. It's so. It's like. It was. It's great. So high energy, but they, like. Fishman just keeps it going. And then Trey kind of gets. Gets onto that. And, I mean, it's. It's a really cool peak. Um, but also, I think he listening to it in the context of this, like, crazy. Like you said, crazy weather event. Yeah, it's good. Well, I. The only thing that I would have different, Brian. I think I would have. I think I would not do the 12 gorge or. Sorry. Not do the 12 Long beach version, I would do the Cypress, the 11 gorge, this, the 7, 2, 13. And then the one that I would put on is the 8809 at the gorge. And I think, like, the whole time I was like, is this really, like, could I really have a 2009 jam?

[Megan]

I know you. It almost feels like wrong in your soul.

[RJ]

But I. I know of at least one other 2009 jam that will be on my Mount Rushmore list and probably others, but maybe. Maybe there are several that I know. One for sure that I don't know. Maybe that's like 2029, but. But I think that the 8809 jam is like. Paige's keys are so great throughout the jam. They sound really inspired, but also, like, really patient. And for early 3.0, the tray playing on this are. Is really great. There's, like, a riff that I. I'm still. It's still stuck in my head. And then he gets to this, like, soaring solo to close. It's a really, really awesome jam. I think that is something I wouldn't probably have remembered, you know, like, offhand. But going back to it, I'm like, this has to be there. Like, it's. It just made me happy. And, you know, being happy is the whole point of. Of this whole endeavor. So that's the one that I would put on and I guess I would take off the 2012. I like for all the reasons that you guys pointed out. I think it's noteworthy and really good. I think the 2011 version from the Gorge, because it's so different and dark and weird. Like, I think that would go on there over the 2012 version, but so that. That's where I landed.

[Megan]

Yeah, that 09 version is right after the light we talked about last week that didn't make Mount Rushmore, but was still an important jam. And I love that the echoing with the effects in this one and that trilling peak is just. It builds so nicely and. And then they're saying it, they're quoting it. It was all right, like, in the peak. It's really fun. That's cool.

[RJ]

Megan, that. Go ahead, Brian. Sorry.

[Brian]

Well, I had the same debate that you did, and I commend you for being as brave as you are by picking an 09 version. I don't think that I. Personally, I think there's a couple great 09 jams that could make the case for other songs. Maybe I'm traumatized by that year. That 8809 version. I mean, that year was total Joy for Phish, even though you knew it was a level below just the fact that they were back. But that version like that, that riff that like and like, those are ideas that Trey was not having throughout various jams in 2009. If you look at the shows around that gorge run, it really makes it this like isolated experience in fish history at that point in time. Those two shows, any 09 skeptic, anyone who's like, who shits on it, go back and listen to those two shows. There's so, so much across there. And 8809 is just as chock full of ideas as 87 was. I had something to say and then I said something else. And so now I've lost it. So I mean, it's going to have to come back to me here. Meg, you're going to have to take it now.

[RJ]

The only Megan, before you go.

[Brian]

I remember it. Sorry, sorry. I totally remember it. So because you mentioned Meg, that they were singing it's all right at the End. There's never been any information about this release by the band, but this was always the, the conspiracy online. You know, in 09, 10, 11, even into 12, you would get a cover song and then Gorge Jam or Alpine Jam or Cincinnati Jam. And so like you'd have these big jams in two very specific songs drowned in rock and roll. They jammed all the time and you never knew, you could never see on paper that you actually had a jam. So it just looked like 5 minute version followed by 7 minute jam, 5 minute version followed by 11 minute jam. And it really made the experience of like seeing a fish show come on paper feel it, like diluted it because it was just like, oh shit, there's not jamming at all. This was one of the first versions to actually cross 20 minutes. I think this was the first 20 minute jam. Well, they did A Disease at Shoreline and then they did Disease in Nevermind. There were others, but this was, this was the first cover version of it. And the, the conspiracy was because Paige started singing the chorus at the end. They couldn't cut it. They had to like release it as a full 23 minute long jam. So for us jam heads that wanted to see 20 minute long tracks, which is a very niche population in the fish community, I understand. But like I'm one of these people, holy crap. Seeing online fish that this said 23 minutes. Just it, it, it filled you with so much joy.

[RJ]

Brian, thank you for that context. Megan, I just before you, I want to hear you, I want to hear yours. But I. But I just want to say in that. In that jam, there's a part which Brian kind of vocalized the Trey riff. But, like, Paige is on the Clav and Trey is playing this riff. And it's. It like, almost sounds like they're like. Like, you know, they're what, four months into coming back or whatever? A few months. And it almost sounds like they're like, oh, yeah, this is. We can, like, do this. We can, like. I can listen to what you're doing, and then I can do it differently, slightly, and then we can move it forward at the same time. It's just. It's really. It, like, it feels very, like, notable to me, but maybe. I'm sure there are others from that year, like you mentioned, Brian, but it feels very notable that this is like them realizing that they can and listen to each other and jam again.

[Brian]

There are others, but they were few and far between. So when they happened, you were like, what the fuck? This band can still do it.

[RJ]

Yeah. All right, Megan, what do you got?

[Megan]

Okay, so my list came together very quickly and easily and never wavered. And it was 99 Cypress, it was 12, 3, 2003 from Boston. It was the Gorge from 11, and it was Long beach from 2012. And it just. The whole time just made sense to me. I think having this Boston show from 2003, I don't know. I'm so into 2003 right now. I think ever since we did 25 tours, every time I hear something from 2003, I'm like, fuck, why is this so good? But I think this show especially is so sentimental because it was the 20th anniversary of the first fish show. You've got this video during set break that they come out and play this long video of all these moments of the band, and then they open the second set with this rock and roll, which is like a comment on rock and roll saving your life. And to me, it's so just absolutely heart wrenching that they would do that. To me, it's just so meaningful. And this jam is like the journey through, like, the 2003 growley swagger. You were talking about that, Brian. I just cannot get enough of that into this super quiet, cool, gooey exploration and how they find melody out. And then it ends in this really rocking way into Weikapog. This is a perfect jam to me, and I love it. And I'm shocked it wasn't on your list, but it makes sense now. I get it. But that was my list the whole time, and it. It's felt very, very much, like, established in a way that none of the other weeks have. Like, every other week, I've been, like, hemming and hawing right into the end, and this one really came together right away.

[RJ]

This is a really great jam. I saw the three shows before this in 03 and then not this. They were all, like, kind of not good shows. Like. Like, in. In. In. In the grand scheme of things like that Run kind of sucked, but did not go to Boston for this fourth one. But this. It's a really great jam, Page, with, like, the sirens and all. I mean, everything. The blues riff, it's. It's all very. It's all, like, taking pieces of other 2003 jams, you know, sound wise. But, yeah, it's really. It's a good version.

[Megan]

I love it.

[Brian]

The chords that Trey finds and the way he just, like, repeats them and builds them over and over and over again. There's. There's not a ton like that outside of, like, Harry Hood. Like, it is so joyful. And I think I didn't think about that in the sense of this coming right after the 20th anniversary video, but I think that's great context. Amazing work, Meg. You know, just like. Like, this song, kind of. This song was played a ton during 2003, and there were some great versions, like, off of our long list. I. I took off the. The It Rock and roll, which I highly, highly recommend people checking out. That's a great version. The version for Miami isn't, like, thrilling, but it. It's. It's good enough in the way that it kicks off a. A really cool segment, but this version, it broke my heart to take it off. I felt like I needed to focus on what does rock and roll mean in fish history versus just versions. I absolutely love. And I think I'll probably wrestle with this one for a long time. It wasn't a fun move. I don't try to take away 2003 love very easily. So when I have a chance to elevate 2003, I do everything I can. Um. It is what it is, you know?

[Megan]

Yeah. We have to make hard choices.

[RJ]

I just. I just want to note. I just want to note that there are some fan responses here. Um. Yeah. Yes. Same, actually. I think. Actually, same. Um, One of the worst. We should do that. Mount Rushmore.

[Brian]

Yeah, we'll do a draft of the worst shows we've ever seen.

[RJ]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Um, okay, so the. The fans had 12, 30, 1, 99, 8, 5, 11, 8, 15, 12, and 8, 3, 13, which we haven't talked about yet.

[Megan]

Oh, yeah, that was my honorable mention. That's my honorable mention.

[RJ]

I just wanted. Can I just address a listener comment which was. How did you leave the eight, 21:15 Magna ball off the list? It's not on the jam chart is one reason and I don't know any others.

[Brian]

I. It's a good version. I think it's one of those like, like the sum is greater than the parts. That's an excellent set of fish. That has an awesome ghost in it, an awesome chalk dust torture. The rock and roll is good. I think it is in the tier personally with. I'm just going to do one of RJ's favorite things here and I'm going to list dates. Oh, good. It's there.

[RJ]

It's there with a few minutes.

[Brian]

11, 2109, 6 hours, 26 minutes and 10 seconds. 6, 19, 10, 10, 22, 10, 6, 7, 11, 6, 17, 11 and 12, 2811 as like really solid versions that, like, if you get that at a show, you're in a good space. But I don't, I don't think it was ever going to be a Mount Rushmore version, personally.

[Megan]

Every single episode we do in Mount Rushmore, someone is like. But Magna Ball, like, every single episode. I hope it happens for every episode the whole time. It's just so, you know what they don't love so hard? Yeah.

[Brian]

You know what they don't say?

[Megan]

Yeah. Are we gonna. Are we gonna do a what's going through your mind draft? Because then we'd get to say Monda Green. Yes.

[RJ]

If.

[Brian]

If we are still doing this when what's going through your mind hits 50 versions, which I think probably will happen by the end of next year. I think that we are gonna probably get. I think summer 2025 is gonna be like every other show. Trey's like, you want to play what's going through your mind again?

[Megan]

Yeah. Yeah, let's play that again.

[RJ]

Yep. That's basically how it. That's how it works. I just want to say real quick, there's. We got a nice note in the voting comments, which is a whole new thing from a listener listening from China and just saying his wife is from Russia and he's from the States, they met in Korea, married in Thailand, live in China. And still one of his long standing dreams to get her to a show. She appreciates it, but doesn't fully understand the drive we have to listen and study to the music. Sick. And he wants to get her to A show, but also says that he loves what we do and think this project is a great way to understand the evolution of some of the music. Keep sharing in the groove. So thank you for sending that.

[Brian]

That's amazing.

[RJ]

EV dude had 1231-9912-2038-5118, 5, 12, 15 12. Yep, yep. Or sorry, yeah, a 15 12. Same. Bryce had the same list as EV Dude. Craig Knowlton had 12.31.9985 12, 8 15, 12, 7 12, 13 and 8, 3 13. So heavy. Both 2013 versions. Jeremy had 12, 203880, 98 15, 12 and 8, 3, 13. So this is kind of like a little bit all over the place about these, but. Oh, I have to read Forbin 777s 1231, 9, 8, 5, 11, 8 15, 12, and 7 12, 13. We kind of did it. But, Megan, you didn't talk about. We didn't talk about a 313. Do you want to talk about it quickly or are we. Or is it just mention?

[Megan]

I mean, this is my honorable mention. I love this jam. It's got the early peak and then it goes into that space funk section that's so fun. And it gets really quiet. And Paige on the piano is just. But they're still playing the space effects, but Paige is on the piano. And somehow it works. It's just really interesting. And it has that super slow, optimistic climb that never really like, truly peaks, but still works. I really liked this version a lot.

[Brian]

Bill Graham. 13 kind of gets overlooked because the Tahoe Tweezer, but 8213 is an outstanding complete show. 8313 has this great rock and roll. And then 84 13, friend of the pod Craig Hillweg has always talked about as one of the strongest 3.0 shows. There's. There's nary a flub throughout that show. It's so much energy. Excellent song selection. It is fish at a very, very high level at a kind of similar to what I was talking about with, like, the second set of 712 13. You go back and listen to some of those 2013 shows and, man, you might not get the depth of jamming that you're looking for now, but you just get like. Like a peak, peak band that just knew how to play together.

[RJ]

Yeah. That third night, second said the energy Runaway Gym combo.

[Brian]

The Light.

[RJ]

Yeah, the Light. Yeah. It's really awesome. Okay, so we have a different. Different kind of thing happening next week.

[Brian]

Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby.

[RJ]

What are we. What are we doing next week? And can we, can we, can we share some kind of preview with the. With. With our. Our Fans and friends?

[Brian]

100%. We're going back to draft land, baby. Come on. You guys ready for this?

[Megan]

I don't know. Are you ready, Brian?

[Brian]

I'm nearly finished my preparation. I'm so totally ready. Well, that's, you know, I'm sure that there are people out there that want you to win, so they'll probably give you the best picks, you know.

[RJ]

Oh, man. Just.

[Brian]

No, I'm ready. So what we are doing is. We are. I don't know why someone deleted this. Maybe I did. I will add this back here. But we are. We're going to preview the west coast tour that is coming up here in the next couple of weeks. And by doing that, we are doing a draft. We are doing a West coast shows draft. We have six categories here and a little bit different than what we've done in the past. We will have a Southern California category in Northern California category, an Oregon category, a Washington category, and then a 1.0 wild card category and a 2.0 to 4.0 wildcard category. So you, the hosts, when you get through all of your. You can do it whenever, you know, if you want to claim a show and just be like, I got enough confidence that there's enough great shows from whatever region of the west coast, I'm just going to slam home my 1.0 wild card. You're able to do that. But we're going to draft six shows each from Southern California, Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and then a 1.0 West Coast. And a 2.0 to 4.0 should be really fun. West coast fish is really wild. I've been listening to a ton of it over the last couple of days. When they get into really cool spaces, they get into really cool spaces. We will probably release our list before the episode so that you guys can all prepare.

[RJ]

Yeah, I'm actually gonna do that. I'm gonna do that right now. I'm gonna put a PDF because there's. It's too hard to do with a screenshot.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

So I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have a PDF that's going to [e-mail] draft. So if you go there, if you're watching live, it's not going to work, but if you're listening or you go back and like five minutes, it'll work. So the list will be there and it's a PDF and it will be. It'll have all the categories and the Possibility you could even print that PDF and follow along at home or do your own picks.

[Brian]

A lot of options.

[RJ]

A lot of options.

[Brian]

We're all about the options. I'm stoked. It'll be our first draft since the highly contentious studio albums draft that almost broke the podcast in half. But I'm excited about it. I think think drafts are great for content development. They're great for sharing ideas, sharing your own personal tastes, your own personal shows, jams, whatnot that you love. It's also there for stealing things from other people. And I thought you were going to.

[Megan]

Say, you know what, it's not good for our friendship.

[RJ]

I thought you were going to say friendship. I thought we were going to say friendship is the point.

[Megan]

Not good for our friendship. But this is the thing I was thinking about.

[Brian]

I think our friendship has. Has deepened through. Okay. I think you would agree with that too.

[Megan]

Oh, okay. Well, one thing I will say. Yes, we've been able to rupture and repair. Let's say that in therapy words.

[Brian]

I felt no rupture.

[Megan]

That's not true, Brian. That's a lie. That's not. You were like so mad. You were accusing people of being moles. So you were definitely like, I'm just.

[Brian]

Here for the content, baby. I'm just here to.

[Megan]

That's what you say.

[Brian]

I want people to listen to our podcast, engage with our podcast, have a good time with our podcast. I have a good time with it. Do you have a good time with it? I don't know.

[Megan]

I have an amazing time with it. I'm able to be fine if I lose. I'm. I'm actually like a great. Not a sore loser at all. But what I will say is that I think this week or next week I should say is actually a little bit more about personal taste because there's so many great shows to choose from where I think some of the tighter drafts, like the studio album draft for the best years. There's clear winners in each category story. But I think for this it's a little more open ended. So I think we'll be able to maintain our friendship in a more peaceable manner. Brian, I should. I hope so. I don't have a list of your favorite shows, but I'm sure I will upset you at some point when I choose a show that's good that you own.

[Brian]

To quote the great Hannah Hidalgo, I hate to lose more than I love to win. And that's just the way it goes. Just the way it goes, that is.

[Megan]

But it's a good Quote.

[Brian]

All right, reference. But, you know, we'll. We'll. We'll get there. We'll get there.

[RJ]

We're gonna. We're gonna just go to osirespot.com draft and you can follow along from home. Okay?

[Brian]

Jay's just like, get out of here. Get out of here.

[RJ]

We did it.

[Brian]

Come on. What is going on?

[RJ]

We did it. I'm just saying. We did it. We did it. Thanks, everybody, for. Thanks for coming on this draft adventure with us. Go back to the. Some of those rock and roll versions if you haven't already. Anything else, guys?

[Megan]

Nope, I can't wait. See everybody next week.

[Brian]

Shout out. VT to boot here. Sounds like mj. Anyway, you shake the Hidalgo. That's it. That's it, my dude. You got it.

[RJ]

That's it.

[Brian]

Osiris. Hey, what's up, you guys?

[RJ]

This is Reed Mathis. I made a podcast called the Gifts of Improvising.

[Brian]

Let's come.

[RJ]

The Gifts of Improvising that's coming out on Osaka.

[Brian]

We talked to all your favorite improvisers. Natalie Cressman, Marco Benevento, Tom Hamilton, Aaron Magner, Holly Bowling, Bill Kreutzman, and Jay Lane.

[RJ]

So what, you're doing a podcast? Yeah, doing a podcast.

[Megan]

So don't fear if you hear a foreign sound to your ear.

[Brian]

We need the gifts of improvising.

[RJ]

Improvising. Every listener to Too Much effing Perspective knows that my co host, Alan Keller is a music nerd.

[Brian]

And right up there in his pantheon.

[RJ]

With the Beatles and Elvis Costello is the Clash. So, Alan, it's one thing for you.

[Brian]

To be a nerd, but how did you rope in a Cool Guy311's Nick Hexum into a full on Clash geek fest on our show?

[RJ]

Well, first of all, Alex, it was your idea. Oh, right.

[Megan]

Second, Nick actually jammed with the Clash's.

[Brian]

Joe Strummer in a supergroup that included Flea and Tom Morello.

[RJ]

Okay, well, there is that.

[Megan]

And finally, one member of the Clash.

[Brian]

Cited, this is final Tap, the reason our show even exists as his favorite movie. Which one? Hey, if you want to find out, you gotta listen to Too Much Effing Perspective. That's too much E, F, F, I, N G Perspective. The only podcast you crank up to 11.