Mt. Rushmore: Slave to the Traffic Light

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast – "Mt. Rushmore: Slave to the Traffic Light"

Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: Brian Brinkman & Megan Glionna (Osiris Media)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Brian and Megan take a deep dive into Phish’s revered song, “Slave to the Traffic Light”, using their recurring “Mount Rushmore” format to select and discuss the four best live versions of the song. They explore the emotional core of Phish’s music, discuss the song’s evolution from its origins in the 1980s through its peak in the ‘90s, and its position in more recent years. Drawing on personal experiences and fan culture, they also address ticket anxiety, tour rumors, and the catharsis Phish offers its fan base, before wrapping up with a preview of future episodes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Emotional Power and Role of "Slave"

• Traffic and Tension as Metaphor (01:06–04:25)
  • The hosts open with a playful discussion about being "stuck at the traffic light", drawing a parallel to the song’s themes of waiting, tension, and eventual release.
  • Brian: "That feeling of being trapped… like, what is the point of it all is kind of what I asked myself… That’s how I try to deal with a traffic light."
• Phish’s Unmatched Ability for Catharsis (05:01–06:54)
  • Megan highlights how “Slave” has helped her through stressful periods:

    "There’s something about this song that… it just totally shifted my perspective. There are very few bands that can do what Phish does the way they do that…" (05:52)

  • The conversation emphasizes how essential songs like Slave are to giving Phish emotional depth, moving them beyond just cerebral or technical display.
• Songs as Safe Spaces for Emotion (10:44–11:57)
  • Megan observes that jam band spaces are rare, safe venues for men to access and process emotion publicly:

    "This song and songs like this… they do allow… men… to feel cathartic about their emotions and also tap into that. People don’t talk about that enough." (10:44)

  • Brian connects this insight to broader cultural needs, referencing Scott Galloway’s work on masculinity and community.

Phish Fandom: Sphere Ticket Drama & Tour Speculation

• Both hosts discuss recent experiences with the high-stakes lottery for tickets to Phish's Sphere shows in Vegas (13:10–17:42).
  • Megan scores some Sphere tickets, Brian recounts a streak of luck and disappointment, interweaves Cubs fandom as another lesson in waiting and managing expectations.
  • Discussion on how show location and timing influence the specialness or expectations for a given run (17:03–18:47).
• Speculation about the rumored 2026 summer tour dates and Brian’s reactions to certain venues, especially his desire for Colorado (Dicks) to retain its place as the closer (19:00–20:40).

"Slave to the Traffic Light" – Song History & Anatomy

• Song Origins and Evolution (21:57–26:16)

  • Megan delivers a detailed chronology, from its first performance at Nectar’s in 1984, its periods of dormancy and revivals, through its transition into a jam vehicle and set-closer in the 90s.

    “It’s a four-chord masterpiece and it has really stayed within the exact same structure since its first performance…with the intro and the jam segment stretching out…” (21:57)

  • Highlights the patience and dynamics of mid-90s versions, the darkness that emerges in later years, and the enduring emotional resonance.

• The Slave Jam: Leadership, Group Builds, and the Value of Space (27:28–31:30)

  • A nuanced debate about whether the most powerful versions are led melodically by Trey Anastasio, or are “full band builds” with Trey hanging back.
  • Brian:

    “Inadvertently, when it was written, [Slave] was designed for the transition the band would go through…in becoming a much more democratic full band unit… That to me indicates a band that is really listening in the silence.” (28:16)

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Segment: Mount Rushmore – The Four Greatest "Slave" Performances

Note: Instead of discussing only “context” or “fan favorites”, the hosts focus on especially patient, emotional, and/or experimental performances where the song both soars and takes genuine risks.

1. 7/13/1994 – Big Birch, Patterson, NY

Timestamps: 34:51–42:25

• Regarded as perhaps the “greatest Slave of all time”.
• Key features: Orchestral patience, audience clapping, outstanding Mike Gordon bass, gradual full-band build with a phenomenal peak.
• Megan:

  “This version is perfect… the band comes in so sweetly and so patiently, and then it just builds to this peak that is absolutely incredible.” (38:04)

• Context: Second-to-last song, a defining moment at a now-legendary show.

2. 12/7/1995 – Niagara Falls, NY (Official Release: Niagara Falls Box Set)

Timestamps: 42:25–48:40

• Unusual placement: Mid first set, not the typical closer.
• Noted for its percussive, jazzy buildup, exceptional tension and release, and band energy untethered from end-of-show fatigue.
• Brian:

  “The silence that they sit in, the darkness that you hear early on, that then builds to this just, like, remarkable, massive, massive peak… really sets you up for what’s to come.” (44:57)

• This selection wins out over the also-beloved 12/14/95, which operates more as a suite segment.

3. 8/17/1996 – Clifford Ball, Plattsburgh, NY (Festival set closer)

Timestamps: 50:12–56:08

• Festival context: Emotional resonance of the band’s first true festival.
• Features a dark, heavy metal-infused intro, full-band collaborative build, and cathartic, peak emotional release.
• Megan:

  “This is, to me, the true moment they start to embrace the darkness inherent in this song… It’s less clean from Trey in the build, but… it works really, really well.” (51:27)

• Brian:

  “There’s so much power associated with this…This version has all of that.” (54:45)

4. 11/14/1997 – Salt Lake City, UT

Timestamps: 56:08–64:22

• Represents the final era where Slave is still an experimental jam vehicle.
• Very slow, mournful, stretching the song’s structure toward darkness and dissonance before ultimately delivering a satisfying, anthemic peak.
• Brian:

  “You don’t have to reinvent the wheel here. Just give us all the feels over [an] elongated period in time.” (59:48)

• Megan:

  “It’s really delicate. The jam is super slow and mournful in a way they could only do as they moved past into the later...90s, because they started to have more darkness in the universe.” (60:36)

• This version edges out the highly experimental (and unfinished) 12/5/97 Slave, as “Slave needs a peak”.

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Honorable Mentions & Further Listening

Timestamps: 63:30–65:55

• 12/30/93 – Portland, ME: Highly regarded, but more for its context and fan impact than pure musical content.
• 5/3/94 – Starwood Amphitheater, TN: Megan’s personal favorite for its floating, patient build.
• 12/5/97 – Cleveland, OH & 7/4/2000 – Camden, NJ: Unique setlist context or transitions, but miss the essential "Slave peak".
• Recent (3.0/4.0) standouts: 9/6/15, 1/17/16, 10/16/21, 8/14/22, and especially 2/25/03 (Philly – angry and dark), and 9/6/15 (Dick’s – beautiful phrasing).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brian on Phish’s emotional core:

  "[Without Slave,] Phish would have just come off as very funny and smart and cerebral... but not hooked me the way they did..." (08:34)

• Megan on emotional accessibility:

  “There’s a lot of these versions that have a deep well of melancholy that they’re tapping into, and it’s really beautiful.” (11:39)

• Brian on the Mount Rushmore process:

  "Part of the fun is proving yourself wrong and listening to a version you definitely thought was going on and being like, I don't know if this says as much as I thought it would..." (52:57)

• Brian on concert etiquette:

  "I have nothing to say to any of you at a Phish show… aside from 'that was pretty great…'"
  (47:29)

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Time-Stamped Highlights

• 01:06 – Opening metaphor: traffic lights, modern life, and Phish’s universal themes.
• 05:52 – Megan’s personal testimony: Slave as comfort during stressful reports week.
• 10:44–11:57 – Safe emotional space for men, catharsis of Phish and sports.
• 21:57–26:16 – Deep history of "Slave"; importance in catalogue, patience, dynamic development.
• 34:51–42:25 – Big Birch 7/13/94 deep-dive: emotional highpoint of all versions.
• 42:25–48:40 – Niagara Falls 12/7/95: why placement matters; peak “Slave” when band is fresh.
• 50:12–56:08 – Clifford Ball 8/17/96: festivals, darkness, and the power of scale.
• 56:08–64:22 – 11/14/97 SLC: late-era experimentation and the necessity of musical catharsis.
• 65:15 – Context vs. content: "You do have to finish Slave…" (on why unfinished versions don’t make the cut).
• 67:01 – Preview: Next week’s NYE Run Draft with guest podcasters; final Rushmore of the year will be "You Enjoy Myself".

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Original Language, Tone, and Atmosphere

The discussion is lively, self-effacing, and steeped in the good-natured, obsessive camaraderie of long-time Phish fans. Brian and Megan combine personal anecdotes and rigorous musical analysis, often poking fun at themselves and the quirks of Phish culture. There is a recurring theme of embracing both the highs and emotional valleys of fandom, and repeated reminders of how Phish’s more emotional, triumphant songs provide unique outlets for their fans.

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Summary Table: Mount Rushmore – "Slave to the Traffic Light"

| Date | Venue | Era | Notable Features | Timestamp | |--------------|----------------------------|------|-----------------------------------------------|------------| | 7/13/1994 | Big Birch, Patterson, NY | 1.0 | Ultimate patience, best peak, fan-favored | 34:51 | | 12/7/1995 | Niagara Falls, NY | 1.0 | 1st set placement, dark & intense, full band | 42:25 | | 8/17/1996 | Clifford Ball, Plattsburgh | 1.0 | Festival atmosphere, darkness, catharsis | 50:12 | | 11/14/1997 | Salt Lake City, UT | 1.0 | Lengthy, mournful build, late-era innovation | 56:08 |

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Closing

The episode wraps with anticipation for the next "draft" episode, details on holiday shows, and hints that “You Enjoy Myself” will close out the Rushmore series—foreshadowing another deep-dive into one of Phish’s most iconic songs.

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For new fans or those unfamiliar with “Slave to the Traffic Light,” this episode functions as both a loving exegesis and a playlist recommendation of essential versions. It’s an ode to musical patience, emotional release, and the timelessness of Phish’s live experience.

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Brian]

Osinbus.

Better Late than never. The helping friendly podcast is coming at you live here on Wednesday, December 10th. Brian and Megan, you're both stuck at the traffic light, waiting, just waiting for it to go green so that we can continue our Christmas shopping, so we can continue going to the library, so we can continue going to concerts, so we can continue going to the cinema.

Endless stuff to do, endless places to go, kids to take everywhere, school drop offs, work, commutes, yada yada yada. That feeling of being trapped. The light goes from cloud green to yellow so much faster when you're in a hurry than it does when you are just kind of casually out doing your day. Meg, do you have any strategies for how to wait out a long traffic light?

[Megan]

Well, I live in New York City, so I probably should, but I don't, I don't know if you know this about me, but I am a really impatient, aggressive driver.

[Brian]

I don't know if you know this about me, but I used to be an extremely impatient, aggressive driver. And then I started commuting to work about 30 minutes a day, three to five days a week. And I got to a point where I was just like, what is the purpose of all of this stress? And it doesn't end there. Requires a lot of strategy after that point and like meditation within the car and like trying to extend empathy to the truck driver who is driving way too fast in the right lane and that's the reason why you, you can't merge so that he can go in the left lane. You know, all that sort of stuff. You're just like.

I don't know what was the point of it all is kind of what I asked myself that that's how I try to deal with a traffic light.

[Megan]

I can get that. I understand that. I think I've come to an okay place, managing my own stress and traffic. It's when I'm in the passenger seat that I have the hardest time. But I am, I love driving. I've. I wasn't a great driver when I first started driving, but I've been living in cities for the last 20 years at least, and I've gotten really good. I'm a really good driver, I think. And so I love being on the road, I love driving, I love a road trip. So I don't mind too much if there's traffic as long as I kind of know when it's going to end. I can't believe we used to sit in traffic and not know when it was going to end. Like, at least now we have these things that say seven more minutes, you know, that's like so, so incredible. But yeah, I don't mind it. But when I'm in the passenger seat, I have a hard time allowing the person in the driver's seat to make the decisions. Sometimes I'm like, I would have done this differently, but it's okay. I'm learning.

[Brian]

My 10 year old son has taken on all the great qualities of a backseat driver. He's never driven, but I do things. And he's like, why did you do that, dad? Dad, you need to get over. And I'm just like, I already have one of you in the car. I need you to just sit in the back, read your magazine, watch your tablet. Like I'm capable of doing this. I love driving too. I don't like sitting in the passenger seat.

But you know, today we are going to be talking about this fusion of tension and stress with the modern world and what it does to us and the absolute bliss when you just allow yourself, like Del Griffith said in Planes, Trains and Automobiles, to be a, to be a twig on the shoulders of a mighty stream. Just let the world take you. It leads to bliss, as we will discover here in today's episode. We are doing a Mount Rushmore on one of the first fish songs ever. The.

When in doubt, let's close the second set with it. The hey, this is so much better when you surprisingly segue into it in the middle of the first set. Guys.

The Is it still worth hearing outside of its 1990s versions? In a great category with the song we talked about last week, Possum, yet another song about what can happen when you're on the Road where your end could be and or not. I'm very excited about this. I lived in the slave chill bliss zone for an extended period in time. It was a fantastic vehicle for reading, for chilling out as the holidays get started, for driving. I'm really excited to dive into this. How are you doing overall though, today, Meg?

[Megan]

Yeah, I just want to comment that this has been a really, really great song for me to be listening to this week too, because I'm writing reports for my third graders, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of writing. It's a lot of editing other people's reports and having this on in the background. It's so uplifting. It's like the hood week in a way. You know, it's like when I was listening to Hood for that week and it just totally shifted my perspective. There's something about this song that we're gonna get into all of it, of course, but there's that one part where Trey just climbs out of it, and it's so hopeful and positive. And there are very few bands that can do what Fish does the way that they do that. Emerging out of wherever they are and peaking something so perfectly. And so this is, to me, the closest that I've gotten to feeling really great the way that I felt when we did our hood week. And it made me fall in love with the song all over again, I have to admit. And it was. It made the. It made a hard week a lot better.

[Brian]

I. I feel like this one, along with.

Just looking back at the ones that we've done this along with something like Cross Eyed, that was a good one, I would say, Carini, just because, like, you're only using these, like all banger versions.

Waves to a certain degree, although some of those dropped off. But like this Hood Gin Carini, these were some of my favorite Rushmores we've done where you really live in a space for an extended period in time. And there's enough diversity in a slave jamming from a year to year standpoint. But it all delivers in the same way that like most hoods do.

There's a. There's a feeling Fish gets to when they get quiet plus contemplative, plus you know that a peak is on the horizon. That is not the reason I go and see them or I listen to them so much, but is a reason I do this so much. And if they and am happy to think about this band on such a regular basis and to live in a song that's really designed to Kind of be like a cocoon for them to reemerge from. It just. It was really special.

[Megan]

I like that imagery. There's, to me, a few songs that have given Phish kind of their emotional core, you know, and this is one of them, I think, this band. I would have been less interested in them if they didn't have songs like Slave and like Hood that have.

[Brian]

A.

[Megan]

Deep emotion to them. And I think the band would have just come off as very funny and smart and cerebral and interesting and talented, but not hooked me in the way that they did if they didn't have songs like this. And whenever I do a listening project like this, which is something that I never would have set out to do on my own, that's probably not true for you, but for me, it's a really amazing exercise to listen to the same version or a different version, Excuse me. Of the same song and.

Recognize what makes it so undeniable. And with a song like Slave to Me, it's just the emotion.

[Brian]

Yeah. And I think that you make a really good point that, like, Fish toes this very interesting line between that impressive, nerdery prog rock style that is more about the chops, and then they're nailing their parts with this kind of abstract.

Kind of.

Like that, like, northeastern New York City style of them that is, like, going to shock you in a way with their experimentation and the risk taking.

But then the third part of all that is the emotional side, which sometimes comes out as humor, but other times comes out in a very earnest way. Like a song like Slave to the Traffic Light or a song like Harry Hood, where the entire design of the music is not necessarily to impress you with the chops, it's to reach deep into your soul and impact you. And that is definitely something that. Without that, I don't think Phish has the reach that they have. And living in a song like this, that was literally just designed to do that, it's a really, really special place to be. Sometimes I like living in the darkness and the weirdness. Sometimes I like living in, like, hey, everything's gonna be okay. You just gotta build up through this gorgeous space of quiet music that the band is playing. And once you reach that peak, it's gonna be all white lights, arms in the air, glow sticks. It's gonna be great.

[Megan]

Yeah. I think there's something interesting that this made me think about, which I don't remember when it was, but we've done a lot of episodes. But one of them was we were talking one time about how the jam band space is a safe place for men to have feelings. And I do kind of think that this song and songs like this, like Hood and Fluffhead, they do allow. You know, there's a lot of men in this fan base and this is a way for them couple, so. So I've heard, and I think it's really nice for that. These songs give men a place to feel cathartic about their emotions and also tap into that. And.

I think that's something about Fish that people don't talk about enough, that there really is. This is a place where there is a lot of emotion, whether it's a.

[Brian]

Joy or.

[Megan]

Sadness or like, well, we're going to talk about it today. There's a lot of these versions that have kind of a deep well of melancholy that they're tapping into, and it's really beautiful. And I think I'm just grateful that Fish has written music like this and all these dudes can get in touch with their feelings.

[Brian]

I mean, I didn't think about it before this conversation, but. We definitely need to book Scott Galloway for a 2026 interview because his book, Notes on Being a Man, is addressing the challeng that men have been facing in the last decade or two in American culture. The need for community, for the freedom to express their emotions in productive, positive, but also, you know, negative and challenged ways and how they work through that. And maybe what we need to really get to him as at, is that the best way to reach men in need here is through the music of Fish. So we're going to book that for 26. I'm right there with you, though. It's like the catharsis of. Of Fish and the catharsis of sports. The trauma of Fish, which I'm going to get into here in a second, and the trauma of sports. I'm currently dealing with a very good friend who has that intersecting right now. Those are important feelings to have. Those are big, important feelings to have. So in terms of talking about the positives of the Fish experience and also the negatives of the Fish experience, I want to ask you something.

[Megan]

Oh, boy.

[Brian]

Did you hit in the sphere lottery?

[Megan]

I did. I did. I did. I can't believe it. I am shocked, but I did. Yeah, I didn't get as many as I wanted because my friends and I are trying to coordinate to have seats together or at least be at the same show, but I did. I'm gonna. It looks like I'm gonna be going the second weekend, potentially the third, if my friends hit you know, then I'll. I'll sell these and adjust. Yeah. But I did. How about you? Have you had any luck yet?

[Brian]

I did not. I just checked my email. I think everyone I know who put in got tickets except for me.

[Megan]

Really.

[Brian]

Actually, except for me and my good buddy Dave Goldstein.

[Megan]

That is.

[Brian]

So. I am okay with it. This is part of the experience. It is. It would have been a very nice vacation to have.

You know this well about me. I am of the belief that if something good happens to me, it means that, like, good things probably cannot happen for years. And I got Mexico 2024. So, like, I don't have anything. I don't. I don't have anything. I don't have any expectations of good things happening. Again with the world of fish, you know, I had Mexico 2024, and then Dick's 2024, and then I followed that up with Boulder 2025, and no sphere 2025 or 2026, and probably Bo.

So, you know, I am just in the acceptance phase. This is trained in me from being a Cubs fan. One good thing happens, and you've got another 108 years of sadness and waiting and longing.

[Megan]

Peaks and valleys, Brian.

[Brian]

Peaks and very long valleys. Like, you know, if one considers the valley between the Appalachian Mountains and the Rocky Mountains to be a singular valley, that's. That's the valleys we're talking about here.

I will say, though, my good friend Dave Goldstein, big shout out. His experience takes the cake because he has not yet received tickets for Sphere. I guess, like, I technically could still get the email, but I. I think it's like, tonight.

[Megan]

So maybe.

[Brian]

Maybe this is just me projecting, hoping that it. That things change.

But Dave Goldstein is pretty certain he's not getting tickets to Sphere, and. And he found out that his first baseman, Pete Alonso, just signed with the Baltimore Orioles. The intersection of sports joy and sports just dismay at the world around you, it knows no bounds. And it's a good lesson for men in terms of your expectations can be up here and reality is right here, and you got to live in reality.

[Megan]

Well, yeah, that is my bread and butter. What I do all day is just to help little boys understand their feelings. So I'm here for the men, too, and I'm happy to help anybody out that wants to work through their peaks and valleys emotionally. But you never know, Brian. Maybe something will happen for the end of the day. I put in two requests for this, another second one for the second weekend. So I haven't gotten the email about that at this point. I'M kind of hoping I do not because that credit card bill, I might not survive it. It might. I'm not sure what would happen. It was a big gamble, so we'll see. But yeah, I'm. I promised myself I would go to the Sphere after missing the first one. I'm not a huge Vegas person.

But I need to redo the last time I saw fish in Vegas in 96 because it was pretty. It was pretty dramatic for me personally and it was quite an experience. And I would like to go back and see fish there. And I want to see what they do with the sphere. I feel like now that they know how to do it, I'm really excited to see what they do. And I promised myself I'd go once, so looks like it's this time.

[Brian]

If I know anything from the way to plan these type of fish experiences, it just comes back to when I went to Dick's 2012. I knew that they, they had a Great Run in 2011. They were going to play even better when it came to 2012. And I gambled correctly, that was the one to do. I remember going into Mexico 24, thinking they just played Gamehenge. I'm probably going to get like the mid of mid fish runs. Ever thought you would? And I'm just gonna have to take the vibes. And everyone was trying to prepare me for the vibes and then the vibes were like another level. So we'll see. We'll see what happens.

[Megan]

You know what I'm doing in my head now is like, well, I got the second weekend. You know, it won't be that good because the first weekend will be exciting and the last weekend will be like the end. So now I'm gonna get the middle. Like that's, that's the, the messed up fish stuff we do in our head. This like idea of like it does change things.

[Brian]

You're right. Because like when was the last. Have they. Since I guess the Baker's Dozen, like done this like repeat weekend thing at a venue. So it will have that. But I went.

[Megan]

The Baker's Dozen was good.

[Brian]

I went the second weekend of the Baker's Dozen. I think that that probably holds up as, as our best weekend overall. Between Double Chocolate and Jimmy's Night and elements of cinnamon and you throw in their powder and jam filled on one side and holes and maple on another side. Like that's a good week of fish.

We'll see. Yeah, maybe I'll get an email and all of this will be for. Not this, this, this Dealing with my emotions publicly. But you know how I am proud of you.

[Megan]

I'm proud of you.

[Brian]

I'll be happy. I'll be happy to stream.

[Megan]

You will? I mean the Sphere shows are cool to stream. It's fine. But yeah, it'll be good. Well, let me know. Let me know if something changes tonight. I'll be for you.

[Brian]

Is there anything else we need to. We've got Mexico coming up. We got Sphere. I guess we're just waiting on summer tour. I saw some rumored dates that I did not like at all.

[Megan]

Oh really? I haven't seen them. Give us the highlights.

[Brian]

It was tour opener in Madison at the end of June, followed by three nights in Boulder over the fourth of July again and then again and then a Colorado to.

I think Merriweather was where it would end. It was a lot of like stand like Deer Creek. There was a three night Deer Creek run. There was I think a St. Louis run. I think here's my thing and maybe this is, you know, maybe I'm going to sound like a Yankees fan right now. Continuing to complain about the Yankees demise in the 21st century where like nobody gives a shit because you had so much winning.

I have a friend who's a Lakers fan who will like complain to me about bad cap moves in the Lakers and I'm just like, I don't give a fuck, man. Like, it's the Los Angeles Lakers. In five years you will get the best free agent and you'll, you'll revamp at that point in time. So maybe I'm off base here to, to complain in any way, but I liked the tradition of Colorado ending the summer tour. I really like that. I don't want to be this afterthought, second run of the summer, fourth of July, like middle of the. I just honor us because we deserve your honor. Like, like Colorado has meant so much to Fish. We are not just the second stop on a tour. Come on.

[Megan]

Come on. I agree. What are the east coast things? Do you remember any of them? Any of the.

[Brian]

I don't remember offhand. I think maybe there was a Jones Beach.

I know there was a Merryweather. I don't think there was a man. I don't think there was a spac. I sent it out to someone who said that these dates are bullshit. So maybe I'm just like repeating past info. But we'll see what happens.

[Megan]

All right. Well, I'll be excited to see what that is.

It feels far, way off now. I mean, but it's the next thing it's the next thing. Yeah, I guess it is the next thing.

[Brian]

Maybe we'll have a Monda makeup, you know, who knows?

[Megan]

Oh, my God, that'd be thrilling. I'd love that. I'd be the happiest person at Mondegreen again.

[Brian]

All right, let's talk Slave here.

Meg, you always do such a fantastic job with the overview of the song. I do want to say before we jump in, I saw a couple questions about this in the chat. We did not release a list. We are working right now as a duo and we just are falling behind on a few things. So we apologize. But Meg has the list in front of her. Maybe you can throw some highlights out there as you're going through it. But tell us, what is Slave?

[Megan]

So, like you mentioned earlier, Brian, Slave to the Traffic Light was one of the first original songs to debut with Fish at one of their earliest shows in their second year as a band. The song was first played on December 1, 1984, at the upstairs at Nectar's. There are about 200 people in the audience. Mark Daubert was sitting in on drums and Holdsworth was playing what would later become Paige's part. Fluffhead also made its debut that night in Slave's History. On fish.net, there's an amazing quote. It says, Trey may have written it as a child, but that mostly goes to show why he's Trey Anastasio and you're not. This is because Slave is a four chord masterpiece and it has really stayed within the exact same structure since its first performance with the intro and the jam segment stretching out to varying degree. The song was of course, on the White Tape demo. There's a four minute acoustic version with a classic rock solo and a beautiful build. If you have not spun that in a while, put that on tonight. God, it's just, it's so beautiful. And it really speaks to their ability to tap into emotion with very little terms of gear. And they were so young and it just. It's still so impactful. This song was played about six to 10 times a year until 1991, when it was only played twice. Then it was shelved for 241 shows until they played it at the Cincinnati Zoo in August of 1993. And then the band played the song in important moments at important shows like Red Rocks and at Portland during the holiday run that year and throughout 1993. The structure and the performance of the song really follow the same pattern. It's a perfect build with a super emotional peak. And in 1994 and 1995, slave becomes this kind of staple set closer. And it has really stayed in the rotation ever since, with most of the classic versions happening between 94 to 97. I'd say 94 brings that really divine floating delicacy to the song. That is when the jam starts to stretch out and really become more emotional and more thoughtful. The dynamics that the band was playing with at that point, with patience and control, are put to such excellent use in this song. And that's why I just love 1994 slaves. They never rush the build in those slaves. In 1994, there's so much patience. What's cool about the song as it creeps toward the end of the 90s is that in 1996, 1997, we start to get more of that darkness that starts to creep in. Thinking about versions like the Clifford Ball and 97, slaves are even more patient and gradual. And what is really cool is that their use of exploration and deep improv means that the builds become more group think in a way. They're much less Trey led, they're much more full band build up. And then Trey will kind of explode out, usually at the end. And in 98, the interplay gets really strong between Trey and Paige in the Jam. Paige uses the electric piano a lot more in the song. And the songs just. The versions just become a lot more gauzy and kind of even more delicate. And it's played less and less as late 1.0 goes on. And there are a few memorable performances in 2.0. And it of course ended the final set at Coventry. There are good performances in 3.0 and 4.0. We're going to talk about a few probably, but to me, nothing ever reached the heights of a 1.0 slave. An ideal slave to the traffic light for me. It starts tight and crisp and then it jams, emphasis on jams. In a really ethereal and super patient space. And then it builds out of that organically and gradually until the peak can't be denied any longer. And then it just explodes out. I would say if you haven't read the write up on the history of Slave to the Traffic Light on the website, I think it's really great on fish.net so check it out. It also has an amazing metaphor about what the Jam and Slave is like. So look that up.

[Brian]

Yeah, it. I mean, this song is like.

The kind of perfect set to Closer. I would say more than even Hood.

Tend to like Hood's more in an encore.

But like the way that this Song is designed to make you reflect on what you just experienced, what you just saw, and celebrate it. There's just something about that. And.

Without giving anything away, like what you described of similar to what we talked about last week with Possum, something has been lost. The feeling is still there. But the band is clearly not searching within this song for what it could do, what it could mean. And that is something that I think I would love to see a return to that at some point in time. Because the way it runs right now.

Hits the expected points. But the unexpected surprises along the way are what really drew us as we were thinking about this song.

[Megan]

Yeah, I agree. I actually have a question for you before we get into the versions.

[Brian]

Ask away.

[Megan]

So, to me, there's really two way that the jam goes.

Particularly the end of the jam into the build. Trey either kind of leads melodically or he hangs back and lets the band build through up to the peak. And then he usually takes over the peak, of course. Do you have one that you prefer?

[Brian]

I think that it's a great question. I think that Slave is one of those songs that.

Inadvertently, when it was written, was designed for the transition the band would go through between 1993 and 1997 in becoming a much more democratic full band unit.

And I think it all is how they approach the quiet and how they approach coming out of the quiet.

To me, the best way is when Trey uses some feedback and maybe like a lower, like, a one of his deeper string notes.

To kind of set the mood. And then Mike and Paige, in particular, connect around Mike's bass riffs that kind of like, you know, that, like, explodes everywhere.

And Paige on the baby grand or the Rhodes.

That, to me, leads to more depth within the jam, leads to more kind of off notes. That is that kind of wabi sabi nature of quiet. Fish jams like this, where you get flaws in the beauty. And.

That, to me, indicates a band that is really listening in the silence.

Kind of in the way that, like, a band like Talk Talk approached the record Spirit of Eden, where silence mattered as much as the notes.

This is not an advocation for silent Jams. More on that in a future episode.

But, like, how do you use that fusion between anyone who's heard this song, it's called Four Times at a Fish show, knows where it's going.

But how do you keep them kind of off kilter about the direction it's going? It almost is like watching, like, a caper film or like. Like one of those, like, Ocean's Eleven type Movies where, you know, at the end, this crew is going to steal the money and it's going to be heist movie. My favorite heist movie.

[Megan]

I love a heist movie.

[Brian]

But you've seen heist movies where you're like, I know exactly where this is going. And you've seen heist movies where you're like, wow, I was actually pretty surprised by what you. How you guys pulled that off. You always want the surprise. And with Slave, you know, where we're going, it's how we get there that ultimately makes it. And I think if Trey hangs back, the how we get there is better.

[Megan]

Yeah, I agree. And I think there's.

To keep with that metaphor, when you think about.

When you have a structure song like Slave, where. Yeah, exactly. You know where it's gonna go. The ways that it can surprise you is the emotion that it's played with and the intensity and the patience and the listening. And I think you're right that when Trey does hang back, and I think that was a real benefit for the song, the band's commitment to exploration, because I think it really did add this element of Trey realizing that he didn't have to always lead this song to the peak, that he could kind of let the band work on that. And I love thinking about.

When a song. I was thinking about the Hood that I heard at MSG last year, I think it was like, the. Was it the 30th maybe? I think it was, and it was so good.

[Brian]

And I think they didn't play at 12:30 last year. That's a lie. No.

[Megan]

Was it 29?

[Brian]

They didn't.

[Megan]

Maybe it was the year before.

[Brian]

They didn't play. Anyway, 12:30 show last year is what I'm saying.

[Megan]

Oh, okay. I'm telling you something good that happened at 12:30 last year. Let's get on board for this, Brian.

[Brian]

It was.

[Megan]

It was 12:30 last year because I was on the floor and I was taping it, and I have. If you want to look at my Instagram, there's. There's a video of the peak of the hood peak. And of course, we all know how Hood's gonna peak, but the way that Trey is playing that Hood peak is so emotional. And that's what I think sets apart Slave is if you can really feel their hearts behind it. And sometimes I feel like nowadays that can hit sometimes, but it's not always. Like, it has to be so earnest and so deep for Slave to really get there, because, again, the band has done that. It has delivered this song In a way that is so powerful that you kind of want that every time.

[Brian]

Just check the fish.net set list. And the Harryhood from that show is the only song from that show that is jam charted, which I disagree with because I think the Download disease is actually quite good and pretty underrated based on the show overall. But that is pretty funny that a 12:30 show happened in 4.0 and we get one jam charted song and it's the encore.

[Megan]

I could tell you was funny. Funny is definitely the term I would use. It was fun night.

[Brian]

You thought it was as funny as on the Green Night four.

[Megan]

Exactly. I had a great night. But not because of the jams, obviously.

[Brian]

Let's get into this because I think we are going to reveal more about what we feel about this song based on.

Based on how we have approached this chart. So we have four versions on the Mount Rushmore.

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[Megan]

Stand in my way.

[Brian]

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[Megan]

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[Brian]

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[Megan]

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[Brian]

Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Megan]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Brian]

Cut the camera.

[Megan]

They see us.

[Brian]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance company and affiliates Excludes Massachusetts. Why don't we just dive in? What is our first version? Why is it our first version?

[Megan]

So I will say we're skipping over some really great slaves. As you might imagine. We can only do four, so we're skipping some really great ones. We're skipping one of my absolutely most favorite the one that I think we're skipping over that people might be surprised about that I saw a lot online talked about when I was posting about this episode was the 123093 Portland version. A lot of people really love that version. It's. It's so beautiful the way the page is playing on the piano. And that version is so sophisticated. It's dramatic, it's emotional. It's everything you want. From Slave to the traffic light and one of my personal. Oh, did you want to add something there?

[Brian]

Well, I was just going to say like in listening to this, that version is very much based on the context versus when you listen to it, removing the context. I don't think it's. It hangs with the best, but that is. I think it was Locke Steel who wrote it. There's a review of 123093 in the Farmer's Almanac that I had from when I first became a Fish fan, which by the way still smells like Nod Choppa. And it's one of my favorite things I own if like that smell physical media because it just smells like the head shop. I bought it at Shout out to Sight and sound in Westmont, Illinois. That place just like took care of 16 year old me and my other buddies who just had like long ish gross hair and giant hemp necklaces and the guy was like, you guys need to go see Fish.

The write up about that show really highlights the importance of them playing Slave that night. They had busted it out like you said on 8693 and then they hadn't played it since then and. Or they played it at Red Rock Skinny three. Excuse me. They hadn't played it on the east coast since the Nectar's days and the entire crowd it sounds like is chanting Slave. And then the band rewards it. It's one of the great fan service moments of all time. I think we can both agree that the version is slightly removed from the best of Slave.

[Megan]

Yeah, and I think that's the thing about Slave is that you do when you're doing something like Rushmore, you're thinking about context, but we're really thinking about the music and so we are taking the emotional kind of context away from it.

[Brian]

As hard as that is for me.

[Megan]

It'S really hard, Brian and I love context. And I will say we are also skipping over one of my favorite versions which I did campaign for a little bit, but it was definitely the right move not to have it on here but. May 3, 1994 from Starwood Amphitheater in Tennessee, one of the most beautiful jam segments that Fish has ever played in Slavery. It's so gorgeous, it's so beautiful, it's so spacious, it's so floating and patient and just an effortlessly emotional peak. It's perfect. But our first version of Slave on Mount Rushmore is, I will say what I believe to be. I'm not going to speak for Brian here, the greatest Slave of all time. I think this is it and I think that 7-13-1994 from Big Birch is the greatest slave. We also have a Mount Rushmore that we just anointed last week from Possum from this show. So this show is. I mean, this show needs to be released. It's crazy. But we have a fourth quarter, second to last song of the second set. This version is perfect. The audience starts clapping during the jam because it's just so beautifully done. They find this really orchestral dissonance space. Mike in this version is. I want to hear this archivally released so bad, because Mike sounds incredible even on the soundboard. The way that Fishman slowly builds the rhythm out of it. And the band comes in so sweetly and so patiently, and then it just builds to this peak that is absolutely incredible. I don't know if there's a better version. I think the one we're going to talk about next is really close, but. But this version, to me, is just the top.

[Brian]

What we're going to talk about next, I think is the best version that has. We're debating even as we are anointing, which is just. That's the way that these shows have to go. There can never be just like consensus. But I am right there with you. I mean, this version is really, really beautiful. And the way that it caps off a really wild set and a really wild, you know, just snapshot of fish in summer 94, I think, ultimately is. Is what drew us here. I mean, this version has a very, very long, quiet section, which shows this emerging.

Infatuation with dissonance and silence and experimentation that the band would use in many other places and in other really great versions of Slavery. But here, employed in this version at the end of this set.

Where, you know, we were saying earlier, context can't be the determining factor here. But I think, like, when you hear this version in isolation, plus also at the end of a set like this, you really get a sense of how much of, like, a breath of fresh air contemplation this song offers. But then also, and this is something Fish is discovering in summer 94, there are all these avenues out of a song.

That can allow them to experiment and jam in really unique ways. And this ultimately has it. Plus a phenomenal peak from Trey at the end. I mean, his playing at the end of this is pure summer 94.

[Megan]

Yeah. So clean and emotional and effortless. Listening to Trey on some of these early Slave to the Traffic Lights, just like, it's incredible. It's inspiring.

[Brian]

You also get the carryover in the Susie Greenberg of Asleep, the traffic light tease. Like this vibe of this set is how do we take all of our big songs, Our Possum, our Wilson, our Tweezer, our Slave, our Susie Greenberg, and how do we mash them together? And that is a very unique aspect of this band at this point in time. That is figuring out the spaces where they can fold songs in and fold ideas in on each other and see what comes out.

[Megan]

Big Birch. I was just talking to one of my really good friends from college, Michael, and he just told me he was at this show, which I didn't know, and he was just saying how incredible it was. So he's gonna be excited to hear this. He was commenting on our Possum choice last week. And look at this. Another Big Birch. So now this is one of those shows that has more than one Mount Rushmore in it.

[Brian]

This is. This just got the gold, the golden highlight. We went through a pretty long period where we didn't have any golden highlights. No Wave, Ikyulys, Cross Eyed, Fluff Head, all unique versions. Now since Wave of hope, christening 7, 24, 22 and possum and slave, christening 7, 1394, we're just in a really special place with a couple of these shows. These are the shows that the band should be releasing as long as they're 1.0 shows. But even the 2.0 and 3.0 that are already on live Fish, throw them on a vinyl, man. What are we doing?

Well, let's go to a slave that has been officially released.

[Megan]

Yes, it has.

[Brian]

And that's a trick comment because it's not what you think it is.

[Megan]

No, it's not.

[Brian]

We are skipping the alive wind Slave. I think different from say the alive one. Hood. I think that the slave on Alive one is fantastic. I don't necessarily think it is the version that is Put a stamp on it. This is what Slave sounds like. I think that's okay. It's a great version from a fantastic show. That show has a killer bowie as well. 11, 26, 94.

The version we're going to go to is from an officially released show in 1995, not that officially released show in 1995 with a fantastic slave. This is.

12, 7, 1995. The rare. Extremely rare, though very choice first set, mid first set take on Slave to the Traffic Light. I am very much here for when this song is played outside of the norm of reality. I saw it twice back to back in fall 2021, San Francisco and then Chula. Both shows featured mid first set slaves. It's a very Special thing to get that sense of contemplation at this point in time.

This version, I think this is the strongest version of Slave to the Traffic Light that the band has ever played. You get this amazing riff from Trey that is stretched out. There's so much intensity. The peak is so big. But what really gets me about Slave at this point in the show is part of the challenge with this song is that when it is often played, which is to close out a set, a second set, or to be an encore, the band's tired. They're kind. They're leaning into it, but they're. They're not at that point of, like, peak. What could happen tonight? Most of what could happen has already happened tonight. And so they were reflecting. Sometimes they're up against a curfew, so they can't push things as much as they would like to. When you're in the middle of the show, you can do anything you want, especially this early in the show. And the silence that they sit in, the darkness that you hear early on, that then builds to this just, like, remarkable.

Massive, massive peak. 25, 30 minutes into the show really sets you up for what's to come with the remainder of the show.

Many people will say that we probably should have selected 1214 95. The challenge I find with that is that that is a part of the Halley's nicu. That is a segment.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Maybe at Someday in the distant future, HF Pod will cover Rushmore segments. I know I would love that. But for now, we are talking about just the song in and of itself. And to me, 127 compared to 1214 is just a better take on Slave to the Traffic Light and what it can do in isolation.

[Megan]

I fully agree. I think this is the other version that I think is the other best version. And there was no disagreement about these two versions being on the list. Big Birch and Niagara Falls were no brainers for us. I love the jam. It has such a percussive, jazzy feel to it. And like you mentioned, that riff is unbelievable and how he allows it to build and in this really.

Really soft way. It's incredible. Yeah. This version, to me, is also just important because of where they were at this point in time. And I do think it's a really important point about what you're saying about the placement of it. I do think the consistent placement of where Fish usually plays this song does mean that it doesn't explore as much. And I think that is a disservice to the song because think of, like, how Good Fish is right now at ambient jamming. You know, I think of the stuff they could do in Slave right now would just be absolutely incredible. And I agree. This is definitely the pick over the Binghamton.

It wasn't so much a problem for me about that. It was a segue or a segment. Excuse me, but the Niagara Falls one just has more.

To me, is a more perfect encapsulation of what. Of what Slave is. And it gets hard. It gets really hard to choose between some of these versions, especially the ones in 94, 95, because they're all played really beautifully. There is also someone who is chomping during the jam segment that you can even hear on the archival release. And that is just such a war crime. Like, please stop. Like, if you are near the tapers at that point too, it's like, like, oh, my God, he must have been standing, like, right next to the soundboard.

[Brian]

I will never understand the desire to talk at a Fish show, so I'm at a complete loss. I got nothing to say to any of you at a Fish show. Like, I'm. I'm happy to have you in my presence. I'm happy to be. Be around people. But, like, aside from the. That was pretty great.

Did you hear that? Oh, my God. Like, outside of that, I got nothing to say until the show's over.

[Megan]

What about it? Like, oh, my God, it's time to go to the bathroom. Maybe that too, but that's about it.

[Brian]

Well, I just. The great thing, I have enough pee break songs that when one starts, my group just knows. Like, I'm ducking out. And I'll be back. And I'll be back quick. But, like, it's not a social event. What are we doing here?

[Megan]

Make it quick. If it's during the YAM vocal jam, too, I've learned that lesson the hard way.

[Brian]

That is a new lesson. That is not an old lesson. That is a new one. Funky bitch starting. That's an old lesson. My soul starting.

[Megan]

My soul lesson.

[Brian]

Well, on that note, we are going to take a quick break. For those listening at home, for those of you hanging out, you're just going to watch us sit in silence as we try to let the seconds tick by so that we can easily edit in this. This break. And we'll be back with more Rushmore slaves.

All right, we've done two mid-90s versions.

I just got some great comments here. Alcohol is the main culprit. I'm guessing this is for why people talk at Fish shows. That's fair. That's Fair. Ed says, just go. Like, there's no reason to talk about it. Just go. Glenn Russell, how do you bring your young son to a show and not talk? That's a fair question.

I have ingrained in my son that when we're watching baseball, when we're watching serious film, and when we're at fish, we are there for them, for that experience to wash over us, and we are not there to have conversations. That said, I do end up spending half of the fish show with him in my lap. So the ear to mouth ratio is very, very close. We can whisper to each other.

[Megan]

Fair. I like that. And I wouldn't expect Brian Brinkman's son to a beat chomper. Let's be real here.

[Brian]

He's not. He's not. I've told him that. Just. It's. It's. The worst thing that you could possibly do is. Is chomp during art. You know, we don't want that.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So we go from Niagara Falls in the middle of winter to one of the more idyllic fish environments ever. Meg, why don't you tell us about our third Slave to the Traffic Light, Mount Rushmore.

[Megan]

Yeah. This is. This is a festival slave. And, you know, there's something about festival versions of certain songs, like Harry Hood, Divided Sky, Fluff Head, Slave to the Traffic Light. You're at a festival, it just hits different. And this is the first FISH festival. And I remember being at Red Rocks a week or so before and my boyfriend telling me that he was no longer returning to college with me in Arizona. And I would be going whack with my friend Michael, who I just mentioned. And instead he would be continuing on to go to the Clifford Ball. And.

It was hard not to be at the Clifford Ball. And I think that this version of A Slave is one of the reasons why I had wanted to be there so badly, because I knew that they'd be playing their songs in a way that they hadn't before. And when you listen to this version of Slave to the Traffic Flight from the Clifford Ball.

This is, to me, the true moment that they start to embrace the darkness inherent in this song and what that can do. There's definitely darkness in earlier versions. There's even darkness in versions in the early 90s, but nothing as committed and as impassioned as the darkness in this version. The way that they have this heavy metal rocking in the early part of the song, it provides such an incredible dynamic shift to the quiet, really melancholy jam. And I think that is really something that made this version stand out and also points to how the band was going to start to think differently about their music. And you can really hear this. The peak of this jam is really a full band effort. It is so powerful. It is really, really cooperative. It's less clean from Trey in the build, but because the band is really working together for longer, I think it works really, really well. And then when Trey explodes out with his solo and he trills like crazy in this peak, it feels really special and has that kind of. This is the first time that the band has gathered this many people together for their own festival. It had to have such an emotional catharsis in that moment. And it's a beautiful version. So. 8:17, 1996, from the Clifford Ball.

[Brian]

Yeah, I was on board with this from the jump. This was one of my. I always kind of. When I look at our master list, I always kind of think to myself, okay, what are the four versions based on what I know that are going to go on here. And part of the fun is proving yourself wrong and listening to a version you definitely thought was going to go on and being like, I don't know if this says as much as I thought it would. But then the other fun is kind of like revisiting versions in the context of the project and being like, whoa, that has to be here. This was one of those. I thought it was going to go on beforehand. I listened through and I was just like, yeah, there's just no way we can leave this off. You know, you think about kind of the difference between this and the bighamton version, because part of the appeal of this is where it comes from. A setless construction standpoint. The second set from 817 96, I think, is on par with one of the more perfect sets. Not a. A tentpole jam vehicle in a way that you would come to associate with these, like, perfect second sets from 97 onward. But the clean approach to music, the focus on their.

Their. Their core songwriting catalog, the power with which they're playing. Everything you just talked about in terms of. This is the first time all these people have been gathered together. They're in the Northeast, they're ending this tour. A big transitional period in the band's career that I don't think they could have really understood how big this set and this festival was to the trajectory of the band. But, you know, Curtain, Jim, Ice, Brother, and then this four song finale. Fluffhead, Antelope, Golgi, Slave.

I don't like. There's not a lot of second sets that End like that. Incredibly rare. And the way that they're feeling by the time they get to this Slave, where they're just nailing big set closer after another, and they are playing these songs to perfection, plus expanding in really unique areas. You hear it in the Slave. There's so much power associated with this. It's a phenomenal version that I would recommend anyone out there check out, listen to get those vibes, feel it.

This is Fish realizing.

There'S a maximalist power to what they can do, and there's something really dynamic that they can do in front of. Doesn't matter the audience size, but the bigger the audience gets, they can provide an experience. That is why we go and see them hundreds of times and why we've been talking about them for so long. This version has all of that. That. That.

[Megan]

Like. That's so killer. It's so good. I had to be talked into this one a little bit. I don't really know why I. I think I was really kind of in the ambient floating space of Slave and. But once I listened to it after we talked about it, I was like, you're right. It has to be in there. It's awesome.

[Brian]

It's amazing. All right. Our last one was our. More. Our most contentious, our biggest debate. I think we both had similar ideas about how we wanted to approach.

This song's arc.

While also, I think, as we talked through, like, the rationale around what we're looking for ultimately from Slave, and one of the things we came to the realization of as we're talking through this is.

What does Slave mean in the window of its peak versus what does it mean outside of it? And what I mean when I say that is, we talked about this during our very first Rushmore episode. I felt it was incredibly important to have a 2.0 version of bathtub Gin to showcase that this song transitioned into a dark and seedy jam vehicle. But I didn't think it was necessary to have a 3.0 or 4.01, even though there have been really strong 3.0, 4.0 versions. Because.

Bath Imagine has been usually one thing in 3.0 and 4.0 a different song. Here, Down With Disease, we went with 8, 17, 97, 1231, 99, 1029, 13 and 7, 1622. One of the challenges of Down With Disease was that that has been a consistently great jam vehicle for the entirety of its lifetime. So you have to show that arc, which means some really impactful versions are going to be left out. Out. As we've talked about throughout this episode. Slave to the Traffic Light really peaks in the mid-90s. There are versions that are quality since then. We'll throw those out in our honorable mentions, but.

I don't think anybody would be.

Arguing that. Slave of the Traffic Light is still a make or break song in Fish's live show. I'd like it to be again, I'd love that. But similar to Possum, this is played because it's played and it's played this way. There's not like a how do we reinvent this? There was a period where they were starting to figure out how do we reinvent this song and what do we do with this song? And what could this song possibly mean outside of just a second set closer that's contemplative and heroic and euphoric. And that period kind of represents the end of this song as a introspective experience, experimental jam vehicle. And that is the fall of 1997. And so there kind of brings you to a couple versions that we talked about.

One of which is pretty standard, one of which is a bit too experimental and it's a bit too outside of the norm. The one that we landed on fuses the experimentation with the heroic peak, the euphoria that we come to associate with Slave and stretches it out about five minutes longer than your standard version of Slave in a way that shows that, hey man, you don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Just give us all the feels over elongated period in time. And that is 1114, 1997, from Salt Lake City, the conclusion of a four song second set. Really amazing version comes out of an outstanding twist. I love this version and I love it even more now after listening to it in the context of this project because you could just really hear what the band was going for at that point in time and how they delivered. But your thoughts, you had to be convinced of this, so tell me your thoughts.

[Megan]

I did and I have been convinced. I think this is the one that maybe one of the only ones we've put on Rushmore that wasn't mentioned in the socials when I posted about this episode. So I think it's going to be exciting for people and I hope people check this song out because.

I think when I was originally thinking about.

[Brian]

You.

[Megan]

Know, it's so interesting, we talk about this a lot about Rushmore where it's either is it the perfect version of the song because it's exactly what you expect out of the song, or does it take the song somewhere new and I was really torn about. There are some versions that I'll mention during honorable mentions that do go somewhere new or different with Slave, and I was curious if we needed to have that on here. But then I decided that.

That'S not really what Slave does. Like, Slave doesn't ever. It is really the epitome of Type one jamming. And there have been some Type two moments, and we'll talk about them, but that is not what it does. And so finding a version that does play with experimentation has that darkness. I feel like if we have to include something later on with Slave, we want it to be something that has more darkness. And this version definitely does. It also has a lot of the kind of dissonant playing, which I think is part of what I'm interested in with Slave and where I think it could go now in a way that would be really interesting. It's really delicate. The jam is super slow and mournful in a way that I think they could only do really, really well as they moved past into the later parts of the 90s, because they started to have more darkness in the universe. If you listen to, like, think about the really early versions or the white demo, the white tape demo, those versions are so sunny and optimistic and full of positive light, and it's fun to hear the song go dark and know that their world was getting more complicated and darker. And I think this version really does a great job of encapsulating that, but still hitting all the points that make Slave what it is.

[Brian]

I think that's it, because the other version, 12, 5 97, gets way out there and showcases what could happen with this song as it goes to silence and they move into true dissonance.

And yet.

Almost in the same way that, like, Reba operates, I kind of need to hear the end of Slavery.

[Megan]

Yeah, like, that version never peaks. It just fades into lizards. And I don't know if you can have Slave without the peak.

[Brian]

Right. And this is a big debate around one of my selections for.

Well, no, I shouldn't say that, because it's happened a couple times. Like, Hood has gone unfinished a couple of times. And I think it's the same thing. We kind of need the finished version of Harry Hood to be. You can jam as long as you want, as long as you come back to. You can feel good about Hood.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Brian]

Fluff head. Every time that that has jammed, you get the fluff head peak, and then you get the jam. So I think ultimately, with slave, the 12597 version is very cool. It's very wild. It's definitely something you have to hear. Highlights where the band was at fall 97. But in terms of Slave, it kind of misses what. What makes Slave essential. And you get that in this 1114 version, you know, and compared to some. Because I think one of the challenges as well, when we're thinking about such a small window like this, similar to what we did last week with Possum, is you are comparing a lot of versions that ultimately sound similar to each other.

[Megan]

Totally. It was a huge problem for me this week.

[Brian]

Right. Like, you're like a lot of the 95 or 94 and 95 versions. I think you get what you're looking for in Big Birch and Niagara Falls. Could you make an argument for other versions? 100%. But the best part of those versions are.

Sometimes substandard to what they would do on the 12, 795 or 713, 94 versions, even though they're really great in their own right. So that's challenging. What do we do beyond 97? I mean, there's still some great versions that we can start going through. But ultimately, like some of my favorite post 1197 versions, 12, 7, 97, really about the segue from the Tube Jam.

8, 12, 98. A lot of that's a part of, you know, the vibe with Ramble on, same with 74, 2000. A lot of that's the vibe with Twist and with the set overall as a whole. Some of our favorite.

3.0, 4.0 versions. 9, 6, 15, 1, 17, 16, 10, 16, 21, 8, 14, 22. These are great versions for the era. There's no way that they are going to surpass the great versions from the 90s, though, just based on how they approach the song.

[Megan]

Yeah, I agree. And, you know, we're not here to propose that Trey should always return to the song. So Trey, don't feel like you have to return to the song. Okay. This isn't Blaise on. You don't need to have. You don't have to go back. You don't have to go back to Everything's Right, but you do have the contextual argument. Exactly.

[Brian]

Don't.

[Megan]

Don't get these twisted. Like, make sure you're not taking this out of context to anybody, but you do have to finish Slave and you do have to finish Hood and Fluff Head and Reba. Thank you. Yeah. I think the only other versions I'll say post that. Well, I do want to say that the 742000 from Camden was talked about a lot online. I think that's a fan favorite for sure. I love the slower tempo of that one and then just the repetitive peaks just over and over again. It's incredible. I also really like the 22503 from Philly. That is also middle of the first set. Yeah, it's really angry and dark before the jam, which I love.

And Trey hangs back in that jam too. But I really love that Dick's version too, from 2015. That is beautiful. Trey's phrasing and that one is outstanding. And he's got that really long sustained note that builds to the peak. It's awesome. So, yeah, there's some good versions.

Post 97, but none that are going to make our rush more.

[Brian]

None that are going to make our rush more. We've got 7, 1394, 12, 7 95, and 8, 1796 and 11, 1497. And I think that's a really good 45 minutes of music that you could all listen to on your commute homes. Give yourself the bliss vibes. You know, it's. Yeah, it's hard to go wrong there. I think that we, we did as good as we possibly could for Slave of the Traffic Light. I hope that we have honored the song and what it means in fish history, and I hope that these versions unlock something for you.

Transitioning quickly. We have only a couple episodes left here in our 2025 calendar.

Next week we are going to do a really fun thing.

We are doing another draft, our last draft of the year, and we are going to be joined by two esteemed. I don't know if I'd say esteemed. One of them is probably esteemed. It was steamed ish podcasters, Mr. Justin Bruce and Mr. Ryan Storm. And the two of them are going to join us to help us draft New Year's Eve holiday run shows and jams. We're going to all draft a 1228 show, 1229 show, 1230 show, 1231 show, a random holiday date show, and then we're going to draft.

Holiday jams. So it's going to be super fun. Is there anything else I'm missing? Oh, we're going to have a wild card show just in case. I think that's correct. Is that correct?

[Megan]

Yeah, we're having a wild card show. You can pick a wild card show category. Yeah, we do. I have a lot of work to do for this, this draft, but I'm really excited to draft, obviously. I've podcasted a lot with Ryan on his show and he's been on Ours. And I got to go on Vice Virtue, which is Justin's Eggie podcast. And that was awesome. So I'm really excited to podcast with Justin again.

[Brian]

He is super fun, super knowledgeable. When I presented them with joining us for this draft.

They were both all in. And then Justin said, oh, wait, you just finished preparing for this. Now I have to start. What is going on?

[Megan]

Get used to my life, Justin. Brian's probably ready for this draft for like three months.

[Brian]

So we'll go over this. I am. I'm all. I'm all prepped up. I got my whole list. I'm ready.

[Megan]

Oh, my God.

[Brian]

Ed asks. Wildcard is different from Random Holiday show. Yes. Those will be two different categories. We'll explain it all. We'll show it all when we're doing it, but that will be next week. And then we will have one more.

Mount Rushmore episode to end the season.

Meg, do you want to tell people what our final Rushmore is going to be?

[Megan]

Yeah. Our final Rushmore of the year is going to be you. Enjoy myself.

[Brian]

What else but yem?

[Megan]

You know, Brian constructed the end of this first set of Rushmore, and it's a banger.

[Brian]

Sebang. I'm very curious your thoughts after you listen to about 45 odd yams. There's a lot.

[Megan]

Kind of dreading it a little bit because I'm not a vocal jam person as fans of this podcast now.

[Brian]

You know what? I'm not. I'm not a white dudes playing funk kind of guy. I learned that after about 10 yems. I was like, wait, I think I figured out this jam here. What's going on? It's gonna be a ton of fun, though. It's yem. It's you. Enjoy myself. It's yem. It's Yem.

[Megan]

Asic Fish. Yeah. Msg. Yeah.

[Brian]

That'll be how we finish out our year. And then we will obviously have the MSG shows to take in. Question about whether or not there's going to be an MSG meetup, we are. Do you have info on that?

[Megan]

I have info, yes. It's looking like I'm going to be doing some sort of podcast event with Mike Greenspan from Relics, and that will be announced shortly. And then hopefully we'll have some sort of an Osiris meetup maybe at one of the bars near msg. So I will keep everybody posted on socials and let you know more next week as well.

[Brian]

That'd be super fun. I will be, per usual, taking in the MSG run from my couch it's one of my favorite routines of the year.

Get all comfy, order some takeout, watch fish. My son is up for it big time. Man on holiday mode. Yeah, I'm just. I get to start working from home next week and then Ellis, I'm taking days off before Christmas and then we're taking the full. I'm off the full week between Christmas and New Year's and then we're taking an additional week off after New Year's to go to Texas for a family reunion. I'm so close. I'm like right there. Last night I went and saw It's a Wonderful Life in theaters, which was, you know, by my way of kicking off the Christmas season, weeping in a theater with a bunch of geriatrics. It was amazing. It was an amazing experience. So we're almost there. I will not be at any sort of holiday event here in New York City, but I'm sure you guys are all going to have a good time and it'll be a ton of fun for us. To recap. Msg, another MSG come, another MSG gone. Will it be packed with highlights? Will it be? What will we. What is in store? We have no idea.

[Megan]

The real question is, is 29 the new 30? That's the real question. Is the 29th show going to be killer like the last two years and the 30th be sort of more filler? We'll see. We'll see.

[Brian]

I mean, this is even going back to 2022 because 12:30.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's true.

[Brian]

Is very, very good. But 12:29, 2022, I think we can agree is that's the show. Yeah.

[Megan]

So three years, I guess. That's crazy.

[Brian]

22, that was.

If you recall.

[Megan]

I have to pull that up. I don't remember this. Hold on.

[Brian]

I was giving up on Fish. I thought I was done after Alpine Dicks, the dreaded.

[Megan]

Oh, yes.

[Brian]

2022 run. And then they opened 1229. 22 with a phenomenal fluff head in that. And then the second set has a killer David Bowie, an outstanding Ruby Waves, a really good. You enjoy myself something else I'm forgetting. The 30th has that great.

No man and sand. Oh, that sand is just so choice.

[Megan]

Oh, this set is so good. That set two from the 30th was good.

[Brian]

No, it's like a five star.

[Megan]

If I could. I always wanted it this way.

[Brian]

Yeah. Great stuff. Good, good. That was when my. My love and infatuation for Fish was reborn in a. In a big way. Edass. Here. I'm in Texas. Where are you going? I'm gonna be outside of Austin. I don't know if that works out, but maybe we'll, maybe we'll, we'll say hey. But yeah. We've got two shows left for 2025 and our MSG recap when we come back in early 2026. Thank you all for hanging with us here as we tracked the best slave to the traffic lights.

Of all time. What is it? All time. We'll see. We hope you guys have a great rest of your week. We will see you next week for a highly competitive takedown Rhinestorm draft session. Can't wait for it.

[Megan]

Yep, see everybody next Wednesday.

[Brian]

See you guys.

Sam.

Osiris.

This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician, and host of Rearranged, an Osiris Media podcast about music arranging. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. We're not just talking about adding orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings, or doing a cover version of a song. Arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all acoustic, even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase.

It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use use arrangements to answer some big questions like what is a song and what can a song become? And how can the sound of a song change the meaning you take from it? Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to Rearranged and maybe it'll happen for you too. Learn [e-mail].

Osiris.