Mt. Rushmore: Waves

Summary

Podcast Summary: Helping Friendly Podcast – Mt. Rushmore: Waves

Date: September 10, 2025
Podcast: Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod) by Osiris Media
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into Phish’s song “Waves” — its history, live evolution, and the definitive “Mount Rushmore” versions according to the HFPod crew. The hosts analyze the song’s live journey, discuss notable performances, and debate the merits of classic jams, while allowing for spirited, passionate disagreements and plenty of communal Phish nerdery.

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Main Theme & Purpose

The HFPod team dedicates this episode to unpacking Phish’s “Waves,” a contemplative track from Round Room (2002), notable for its rarity and sporadic but occasionally transcendent improvisational peaks. With the “Mount Rushmore” format, they debate and ultimately select the four most essential, exploratory, and boundary-pushing live versions of “Waves.” As always, they offer insightful commentary on how the song fits into the broader Phish oeuvre and the evolving landscape of the band’s improvisational approach.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. General Banter and Recent Phish Activity

• Tour Discussion: Early conversation on what counts as “fall” tour, the band’s relentless schedule, and fans’ mixed feelings about the early return to the road.
  (03:00–04:10)

  “I don’t buy this extended summer tour thing... it’s also September. It’s cool.” — B [03:16]

• Zodiac Tangent: Playful banter about changing zodiac dates and the cosmic randomness of tour timing.

2. Listening Recommendations

• Big Thief's Latest Album: Megan praises Big Thief’s Double Infinity, drawing parallels to Adrienne Lenker’s intimate solo work.
  (07:07)
• Music Preferences: Brian discusses how some albums “click” over time, relating this to evolving appreciation for certain Phish eras.

3. Waves: Song History & Rarity

Timestamps: [09:54–11:30]
Megan gives a concise but thorough background of “Waves:”

• Written by Trey and Tom Marshall, recorded October 2002, released on Round Room.
• Debut: 12/31/02 MSG, launching Set II (with “Seven Below,” “Walls of the Cave”).
• Played 55 times, about once every 13 shows; notably rare in 4.0 (one or two performances a year).
• 16 appearances on the Jam Chart, with about a 30% chance of “going type II.”
• High points often hinge on the transcendence of its outros.

“It is sort of rare in 4.0... You have to be pretty lucky to catch ‘Waves’ now.” — C [11:20]

4. Panel’s Philosophical Take on “Waves”

[11:30–18:31]

• Brian: “Waves” channels contemplative songwriting in the lineage of the Grateful Dead; it often serves as a transitional set piece, but in its rare peaks, becomes “oceanic, seafaring, anything is possible.” Much potential remains untapped.
• Megan: For her, one of Phish’s “most poetic songs,” loaded with metaphor (transitory power of words, sound waves), akin to “Theme from the Bottom,” “NICU,” and “Wading in the Velvet Sea.”
• RJ: Admits the song never deeply resonated with him, until some Mexico performances reframed it: “I think this is going really well with the ‘Waves’/Ruby Waves combo.”
• Evdude’s Listener Comment:

  “My main takeaway from this exercise was Waves has generally not achieved its potential. But... the Type I section is incredible. Some of the most delicate Trey playing.” [16:31]

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The “Mount Rushmore” of Waves: The Definitive Four

(Major Segment: [19:11–53:13])

Each pick features discussion, context, and debate over its inclusion.

1. 8/2/2003 – The IT Festival Ambient Jam

(First Pick) [19:11–28:47]

• Setting: Final festival at Loring Air Force Base, Maine (“IT”).
• Why It’s Essential:
  • First extended, deep “Waves” jam — 20 mins, with a 10-minute ambient, almost instrumentless, effect-driven soundscape.
  • Channeling Brian Eno and William Basinski: “terrifying and beautiful... the Disintegration Loops vibe- energy.”
  • Prototype for later ambient improvisational experiments.
  • Panel talk:
    • Megan: “The last 10 minutes are pure transcendence... ancestor to the Woodlands Jam.”
    • Brian: “Festival freedom: ‘We’re not going anywhere, let’s see what this song can do.’”
    • RJ: “I think it needs to be on the list... but this is probably not where I go when I want a jam.” [24:43]
    • Brian probes, is it about preference for structure vs. soundscape (“do you listen to a lot of ambient or noise music?”). RJ: “Probably don’t go to it... easily.”
• Consensus: Important, if not everyone’s favorite, for risk-taking, patient exploration.

“It’s like 12 minutes of effects... I like it, but it doesn’t really do a lot for me... but I think it belongs on there.” — A [24:43]

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2. 5/26/2011 – The Bethel Tech Rehearsal Soundcheck

(Second Pick) [28:47–41:02]

• Setting: NOT in front of an audience — a tech rehearsal/soundcheck released as “LP on LP 2.”
• Why It’s Essential:
  • 27-minute jam, huge creative leap after years dormant.
  • Begins with candid Trey/Page dialogue:

    “Do you want to play a jammier song?... Do you want to play ‘Waves’? — I do.” [31:40]

  • Unfolds as a true, explorative “Waves” jam with Mahavishnu-esque rock-jazz, blissful ambient sections, and melodic interplay.
  • Demonstrates band’s willingness to chase new ideas, even offstage.
• Panel Talk:
  • Megan: “The interplay is so Garcia-like. I’m buying this on vinyl even though I don’t have a record player yet!” [33:38]
  • Brian: Defends inclusion of soundcheck/soundboard material: “I don’t know why we would set rules in place for music not to count. This is as good as it gets.”
  • RJ: “If we could have more soundcheck jams be eligible for Rushmore, I’m all for it.”
  • Fans in chat debate, is it “fair” to judge soundchecks against live performances with crowd energy? Panel generally agrees music counts wherever it was created.
• Notable Quotes:

  “When they release that music, that is as good an indication as possible that the music matters... 100% going to be in there every single time.” — B [35:41]

• Broader Debate: Leads into meta-discussion of whether studio versions could ever make a Rushmore and how Phish’s album approach differs from live Phish.

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3. 5/27/2011 – Bethel Woods (Night Two: Live)

(Third Pick) [41:02–53:13]

• Setting: Next night after the soundcheck, sets two consecutive landmarks.
• Why It’s Essential:
  • Cited by Trey himself as influenced by Beach House’s Alex Scali. “It’s a complete mood piece.”
  • The jam is blissful, melodic, patient, and direct (no heady effects, just communication).
  • Not the most “out there,” but shows what the song could have become — a template for future melodic jamming (“They figured out how to utilize melody as a jamming space versus effects”).
• Panel Talk:
  • Megan: “Absolutely stunning. The outro is so lush and contemplative.”
  • RJ: “The playing is really creative... not super long, but it all works well.”
  • Brian: Contextualizes in the era: “In early 3.0, 13–15 minutes of great music was a big deal. The only other 20+ mins jam in 2011 was...maybe two.”
• Meta-discussion:
  Comparison of soundcheck vs. live jam, and speculation on why Phish's improvisational freedom sometimes differs without an audience.

  “Freedom they felt playing the tech version...they clearly wore off on them because you can hear parallels in the next night’s show.” — B [47:55]

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4. 2/22/2020 – Mexico: The 4.0 Sound Incipient

(Fourth Pick) [53:13–63:51]

• Setting: Riviera Maya, Mexico — final major show before the COVID-19 shutdown.
• Why It’s Essential:
  • Highly experimental with synthesizers, heartland rock peaks; clear preview of Phish’s 4.0 jamming approach (“freedom...melody and rising up to a peak rather than just having melody dictate everything.”)
  • Energetic, effects-rich, texturally dense, seamlessly glides from ambient washes to melodic, triumphant climaxes.
  • Also notable: Segues back into “Soul Planet” at the end, which the panel and fans find amusing/cringe-worthy.
• Memorable Moments:
  • RJ: “Maybe the closest I’ve ever been at a show...and then, yeah, flew back... wild.”
  • Brian shares a Deadhead-Webcast-convert story about introducing a friend to Phish at the moment Trey sings the “Ocean is Love” lyric:

    “Ben was very embarrassed... ‘Why did you do that right now?’” [57:38–59:48]

  • Megan: “Fishman is doing these rolling fills... when they start to sound a little bit like the waves... that, to me, is indicative of what’s so great about Waves jams.”
  • Discussion of Mexico 2023 version, with some panelists preferring its cohesion, others praising the 2020 version’s expansiveness and risk.

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Honorable Mentions & Fan Selections

[64:03–69:41]

• 6/20/2004: Fan favorite for its “propulsive, driving” energy, though hosts (esp. Brian) find it messy and less artistically successful compared to earlier/fresher versions.
• 10/21/2018 and other “transition” jams get shoutouts as being strong but not quite “Mount Rushmore.”
• Consensus: The best Waves jams balance risk, patience, and a willingness to settle into a space, whether ambient or melodic.

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Broader Meta-Conversation

Studio vs. Live, Tech Rehearsal vs. Show

(36:01–38:10, 41:02, sporadic)

• The panel’s overarching philosophy: Any performance the band elects to release — regardless of whether an audience is present — is fair game.
• Tangent: Why doesn’t Phish choose more often to release sprawling, definitive live improvisations as part of their canon? (e.g., “Mountain Jam” on Allmans’ Eat a Peach, or the hidden “Split Open and Melt” on Demand).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “One of the most poetic Phish songs... Opening lyrics just absolutely crush me.” — C [15:09]
• “This is like the ambient soundscape of my dreams. Pure transcendence... reverberating, lush.” — C [23:01]
• “I’m buying this on vinyl, even though I don’t have a record player yet.” — C [33:38]
• “If they’d just put more jams on their albums... Maybe you’ll see one of them on Rushmore.” — A [37:18]
• “That’s just so extreme — they actually took the seat apart.” (on Reba concert story) — C [49:38]
• “If you skip this over because there’s an 11-minute version played in front of a crowd... you’re just losing out on the great music at that point.” — B [35:41]
• “Mexico is worth the money, especially when they play great.” — B [63:55]

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Episode Conclusion & Future Format Changes

[75:20–79:41]

• Announcement: The “Rushmore” format will shift to a more collaborative, collective panel vote for future episodes — aiming for a more unified, definitive list and less secretive, adversarial energy.
• Tease for next episode: The crew will tackle “Ikyulus” (“All 28 versions eligible!”).
• Upcoming schedule: Fall tour recaps, mailbag episode, and continued Rushmore series.

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [09:54] — “Waves” Song History/Stats
• [19:11] — Mount Rushmore “Waves” 8/2/2003 discussion
• [28:47] — Bethel Tech 5/26/2011 (Soundcheck) debate
• [41:02] — 5/27/2011 Bethel Woods analysis
• [53:13] — 2/22/2020 Mexico improvisation & 4.0/modern jam evolution
• [64:03] — Fan alternative picks & honorable mentions
• [75:20] — Announcement of new Rushmore format

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Takeaways for New Listeners

• “Waves” is among Phish’s rarer and more contemplative vehicles, with very few versions achieving its full improvisational potential — but when it does, it’s breathtaking.
• The IT (8/2/2003), Bethel Tech (5/26/2011), Bethel Woods (5/27/2011), and Mexico 2020 (2/22/2020) versions collectively showcase all the possibilities latent in “Waves”: ambient, exploratory, melodic, and modern.
• This discussion encapsulates what makes Phish (and HFPod) special: deep-minded, music-nerd banter, open debate, and genuine love for the magic of improvisation and surprise.

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Summary prepared by: Podcast Summarizer
Original episode by: HFPod / Osiris Media

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

When did making plans get this complicated?

[A]

It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.

[B]

Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no.

[C]

One forgets mom 60th and never miss.

[A]

A meme or milestone.

[B]

All protected with end to end encryption.

[A]

It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[B]

Learn [e-mail].

[A]

Osiris hey, everybody. We're back. This is the helping friendly podcast. This is not the Rushmore Ghost. Do over, Tony. I'm still waiting for your written report on the 112809 Ghost. Once I receive that, we will. We will discuss everyone else.

[B]

I feel like a true teacher.

[C]

Seriously.

[A]

We did get one voicemail about that ghost, but I'm waiting for everyone to do their homework. Hey, Brian. Hey, Megan.

[B]

Hey, rj.

[C]

Hey, rj. You have a real teacher's voice now. I'm impressed.

[A]

Well, it turns out it's not that much different from being a parent.

[C]

This is very true. This is so true. Yeah, if you've been a parent, you definitely have at least an idea of how to be a teacher 1000%.

[A]

Yeah, we have. Well, there's a couple things. First of all, we're talking about waves today, which we're going to. We're going to get to in just a minute. What else do we have to talk about? Well, I guess Fish is, like, going on tour again soon. That's what I keep seeing on social media. Is that real?

[B]

Yeah, we're doing recaps. I am calling it fall tour.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

I don't buy this extended summer tour thing. Seen as Trey talked about the end of the tour in the last show that they performed at spac. It's also September. It's cool. So we will be doing a fall tour recap next week and the following week.

[C]

Yeah. Seems surprising they're already going back out. It's exciting. It's fun. Does seem kind of surreal.

[A]

Yeah, I saw a post on on Social and I thought it was Like, I thought people were just Heather timing mixed up, but apparently they're right and I'm wrong.

[B]

Do you think it's too soon? Would you prefer that they hold off until October and do, like, a true little fall tour? Are you cool? Because this is presumably it until msg. Unless they. Due to msg what they did to Dicks. Maybe they'll play a Barclays for, like, three shows in mid December. I think this is the Barnes carryover.

[C]

That would be shocking. I could walk there, though. I'd absolutely enjoy that aspect of it.

[B]

I was so chill at Folsom, but, like, I still also. I don't have that, like, aching in my heart of, like, it's over.

[C]

Yeah, I feel that.

[A]

Well, I think because of the way they, you know, whatever, whatever. What determines the seasons? The sun or the moon or something. I think it's the sun. The sun, the solstice.

[B]

That all has to do with the sun, right?

[A]

The sun.

[B]

The sun's relationship to where you are on Earth.

[A]

So we're already. We're not in fall yet. According to all that. According to the sun.

[C]

We have, like, a week and a half left or something. Yeah.

[B]

Congress is back, football is back, School is back. There's like, pumpkin spice everything all over my television set. Like, I think it's falling.

[C]

Yeah. And I had to wear a sweater this morning in New York, so, you know, it's happening.

[B]

I just heard, like, a big report about your zodiac sign being 2000 years out of date. Isn't there an argument to be made here? I don't know. I'm not an astronomer. Maybe the equinox could be moved up to Labor Day. I don't know.

[C]

Wait, what is this about the zodiac? I don't know anything about this.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't know anything about this.

[C]

Either, but I'm really into my zodiac sign, so I want to know more about this.

[B]

It's the least surprising development on the podcast. There was a huge New York Times report that the way the zodiac signs were measured 2,000 years ago, the constellations have changed just enough that a Leo is now a Libra or something.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I got nervous.

[C]

Okay, well, I'm gonna stay a Gemini regardless, because that's just always who I've been. But now I can't stop hearing that line, what's your zodiac sign? In my head. But we can just keep going on. It's like a. It's like a hip hop song, like a rap song. Do you know what that is, rj?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. Well, since the ghost episode.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, everyone's just been listening to Lakewood just. Just on repeat, which you never know when it. When it starts and when it ends, because it's just kind of the same thing over and over.

[C]

Hate. This is, like, unbelievable. I can't believe you guys.

[B]

We established we love Lakewood. We both love it.

[C]

It doesn't act like it.

[B]

Fantastic version.

[A]

I didn't wear my Lakewood shirt today, but I was going to. Maybe next time. All right, guys, we got to talk about waves. Brian doing great podcasting. Brian, Read what you're laughing at.

[B]

Sorry. Amazing podcasting. Who was I just listening to? It was Zach Lowe. He said, apparently there are some of you that watch me on YouTube. I don't know. I'm talking to the people who listen to me. I have no idea why you would watch a podcast. I appreciate all of our viewers. Geminis don't know how a Snake. Snake draft works. That probably checks out.

[C]

Yeah, if I. It might. I figured it out now, though. Sometimes I just forget where we are.

[B]

Yet another. Must be a Gemini development on this podcast.

[C]

Must be a Gemini thing.

[A]

So, okay, this is all getting. We're getting really. We're really off track, as usual, but we can't. We're only six minutes, and we can't start talking about waves yet unless we can. Should we do it?

[B]

I think we should listen to a voicemail.

[A]

You think so?

[B]

I think you should put a. Play. A voicemail. Just.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Get things going here. Unless we got anything else we want to talk about. You guys listen to any good music lately?

[A]

Well, yeah. I mean, yeah.

[C]

I've listened to an album that might be at the top of my. Like, it's top five right now, and it might actually be number one.

[B]

Which one is that?

[C]

Big Thief. Double Infinity. It is absolutely incredible. I love Adrienne Lenker. She put out this incredible solo album this year that's like two and a half hours long. It's so intimate, and it's so. It's a lot of her sound check and a lot of her audience recordings of her performances and a little bit of studio work, but it has such a raw authenticity to it, and I think she brought a lot of that to this Big Thief album, and it is absolutely beautiful. A couple of these songs I can't stop listening to. So highly recommend people check that out.

[B]

I really like the new record. I was not convinced of their brilliance until Dragon New Warm Mountain, I believe in you. Whatever that album is called. That was one of my favorite albums of 2022. I feel like I need to now go back and do, like, a re examination of everything that they did before then, because it just did not work for me for the longest time. And then that album clicked, and I really enjoyed this new record quite a bit.

[C]

Yeah, I only got into them, like, a few years ago, so I don't know a lot of their older stuff either, but I'm really into her and her solo stuff mainly and then. But this Big Thief Is album is my favorite one I've heard so far.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

All right, we got to listen to it. We will not be listening to voicemail because of just reasons, so.

[B]

Reasons. I already told you guys this segment.

[A]

My laptop died. I have no way to access this on this browser, on this computer. It's complicated. But if you want me to go through all the reasons, I'll go through it. It'll take, I don't know, three minutes. Do you want me to tell the whole story?

[B]

One of the. Well, I mean, I think we have three minutes. Right now. We're at seven minutes in the podcast. We're not even close to someone's commute being over. No, we don't.

[A]

It's a bad, boring story.

[B]

The great thing about this podcast is RJ is the only person who can play voicemails.

[C]

It's true. He's the boss of the voicemails. He's in charge.

[A]

It would also be impossible for you guys to learn because it's something I went to school for. So it's not like something you can just, you know, click on and play. It's.

[C]

If RJ says no, it's not happening. RJ says no.

[A]

We did get one voicemail about the 11.28.09 go. So we will play it next week. I'll figure it out by then. I have a new computer because my computer died. That's the story. Okay, so let's see what else. That's it. Brian, we're talking about.

[B]

Talking about waves.

[A]

We have a way.

[B]

We have a.

[A]

We have a. Sorry, we have a list of what, eight to talk about.

[B]

Yeah, closer to 10.

[C]

10 versions.

[A]

10.

[B]

10. But that's also eight. Just depending on where the zodiac signs are right now.

[A]

Yeah, depends on the time of year. Okay, so we're gonna just. Actually, Megan, do you want to talk about the song first?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I can do a little history for us. This song was written by Trey and Tom. It was recorded in October 2002 and released on Round Room in December 2002 after the band decided not to record the album live on New Year's Eve at MSG as they originally intended. But on New Year's Eve on 12 hours, 31 minutes and 2 seconds, at their first public show since the hiatus in October 2000, Waves opens set two and debuts with its Round Room, Buddies, Seven Below and Walls of the Cave. It was played five out of the 12 shows on the following winter tour, and Waves was played much less, though in the beginning of 3.0. It did come back after a 78 show gap at Bethel on May 27, 2011. But of course there was a tech rehearsal the night before that Bethel show, and obviously the band had been thinking about this song a lot because they played monster 30 minute version during their tech rehearsal before the Bethel run. And this was played from the archives at Ball in July 2011. So there were some really good versions in 2011, 12 and 13. And then again recently. It's been played 55 times since its debut. It's on average of every 13 shows. It is sort of rare in 4.0 though. They play it about one or two times a year. So you have to be pretty lucky to catch Waves. Now there are 16 entries on the Jam chart and it has about a 30% chance of jamming. And I have some thoughts about the song, but I want to hear you guys talk about it first and then I'll chime in.

[B]

I remember listening to the song first time I got Round Room. I think it closed the album perfectly. I remember thinking it was as close at the time that I'd heard, probably even since then. Well, no, there's one other song that comes up, but it was as close as I'd ever heard to like. It sounded like Fish channeling the Grateful Dead. Like the way the melody comes in, the quiet contemplation of it, the way Trey's guitar sounds. Like it just. It sounded to me like there was a historical lineage at work here. I saw this at my first show. I think I've seen it six, seven times since it debuted. I have personally never seen a great version, but I've listened to a lot of great versions. I think that this song may have seen nice versions. They've all been nice, but nothing that's ever like really blown out beyond what the song can do. I think that this song is really interesting when we think about Rushmore in the sense that the great versions of this song are so far above the kind of like, standard. Whereas, you know, you get like ghost, you get disease. There was a lot of gin was the same way in this sort of standpoint, it was challenging, kind of discerning between an average great version and a really, really great version with Waves. There's, like, a very clear cutoff, and the versions that I think exceed the kind of base level for this song tend to live in the space that the song kind of originates in. It, like, feels like a jam with a song stuck in the middle of it. So, like, the great versions expand upon that, but then also kind of take on this oceanic, seafaring element of just like anything is possible when they go off the deep end with this song. So I'm always welcoming hearing this song played live. I would love to hear it more. I've only heard it once in 4.0. I think it has a lot of untapped potential. It's kind of one of those songs similar to, like, how we talked about Sigma Oasis, that I feel like if we did a Rushmore in 10 years, maybe it's in a different place, maybe it's not, because we have 20 years of evidence of what the band likes to use this song for. It feels like a transitional piece within a lot of shows, aside from a few of the versions that we're gonna talk about that really are centerpieces.

[A]

Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know. I. Yeah, I have some. I have some questions. I'm excited to talk about some of these. I think I've seen maybe three of three or four of the Jam chart versions. But I have. I have a question about some of these on here. I mean, I want to say. I want to. I want to. There's a couple that I think we need to talk about, because I'm confused about some of them, but some of them, I'm not. My. When I was in Mexico, I think two years in a row, we saw a good version. And my neighbor who I was with was like, what is. Like, why are they playing so many Wave songs in a row? Because I think she didn't, like, like it. And I was like, I think this is, like, going really well with the Waves. Ruby waves combo on in 23.

[C]

Yeah, that was. I was there for that. That was awesome.

[B]

I thought that was.

[A]

I thought that was pretty great. But, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. This song has never really, like, spoken to me. Really? Yeah.

[C]

That's so interesting. I have, like, the exact opposite feeling about this song. To me, this is, like, one of the most poetic Fish songs. And the opening lyrics just absolutely crush me. I think the metaphor is so beautiful, and I think we've all felt someone's words just, like, completely take our breath away. And how they can carry so much weight, but they're ultimately ephemeral is just such a great idea for a song. And I think it's even more powerful now when we have so much communication through devices. And so they're kind of alluding to sound waves, but then musically, it also sounds like waves crashing. So there's this real, like, double entendre in the meaning of the song. And to me, it's a descendant of songs like Theme from the Bottom and NICU and Wading in the Velvet Sea. Contemplative, sad, really well crafted metaphorically and really poetic. And I love when they play songs like that. And I think the. That hopeful, mature guitar solo in the middle is, to me, it's just so beautiful. And I love how the Jams are kind of mostly known for their, like, outros and how it can change between being really, like, dark, like, at it or contemplative at Bethel Tech, or, like, really gorgeous and lush at the other Bethel one. I think, to me, it just has a lot of potential. I think that's a little bit untapped.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Big, big shout out to. And I think this goes in line with a lot of what we are all saying where we're agreeing. Evdude says my main takeaway from this exercise was Waves has generally not achieved its potential. But then also says the Type 1 section is incredible. Some of the most delicate Trey playing. And I think that that is part of the challenge of this song is that I think because this song sounds and feels like a jam in and of itself. I think you have a lot of versions that I considered putting on here. There are some great versions from winter 2003. There are some fantastic versions from the Summer, the Shoreline show, the second Night of Shoreline in particular. It's not on our larger list. That is an extremely overlooked show, which opens with Spices, which has not been played since 7:10, 2003 in two waves. And that is a very thematic and just beautiful compositional opening of a show. But because you get this excellent guitar solo from Trey that's very lyrical, very poetic mixed with the lyrics, I think often the band will kind of move on from the song after they finish that segment because what else do they need to play? And I think that the challenge of it is that, like, you get this kind of. It sounds like a jam, so it sounds like it's going to always go off into the unknown. But I think sometimes the band uses it as this kind of transitional piece, which is how I've seen it most of the time. So it'll be interesting. Like the versions we're going to showcase I think are the high, high marks for what this song can do. But I would agree, I don't think that on a consistent basis it has reached that.

[A]

I agree with it. Not, not reaching its potential. I think that's like maybe the main thing about the gems that we got here. But I want to hear, I want to. Brian, we got to hear your, your thoughts. Are you ready?

[B]

I'm totally ready. I really like, I want to just be clear. I really enjoyed this exercise. This is one of my favorite, I mean this comes out of my, one of my favorite eras. Four Fish, maybe my personally favorite era. I love the vibe of this song. I, I, I really enjoyed listening to all these versions. You guys ready?

[C]

I'm so ready.

[A]

That's the best drum, drum roll we could hope for.

[B]

Cool. And like Meg being so ready, I am slow ready for this. Slow ready is kind of a nice counterweight to what Waves can offer from a mood setting standpoint.

[C]

Waves is slow ready.

[B]

I like that it kind of is. All right, so we're gonna go first. Great versions throughout 2003. 2003 is kind of the vibe for a song like Waves. It feels like. Although the evolution is interesting as we'll talk about. But you have to stop with the first 20 minute version. The first version, I think. Well, first 20 minute version. The first version to really capture the vibe of Waves and dive deep into what this song could be in the underworld. And so our first version Here for waves, Mount Rushmore is 8:2, 2003. From it. This version comes at the end of, I would argue a pretty perfect set set to on August 2nd. I think August 2nd is, is as close to a perfect Fish show as you can get. You get disease, you get nicu. I think you get brother. Right after that discern a song I would absolutely kill to have come back. You get Waves and then you get a Bowie that while it doesn't go type two, it kind of has the thematic undertones of the waves. But the waves, you get this perfect song based segment like they just nail note for note. This is in a rushmore run of 7:2903 to 8:303. Pretty much everything is played perfectly during this period. And then as the song fades out, the, you know, freedom that the band feels playing at Loring for the last time, hosting a festival, you really get the sense that like we're not going anywhere. And we're just going to see what the idea of this song does for us. So you get this 10 minute coda to the song that is some of the most terrifying and beautiful fish that you can imagine. It's very atmospheric, there's droning elements. I always like to make a comp to, you know, a non fish album or artist. And this is like William Bazinski's the Disintegration Loops vibe energy for me, which, if you know anything about that, that was recorded throughout the. It was put together throughout 2001, and William Bazinski played it for the first time on the roof of his Brooklyn apartment overlooking Manhattan on the evening of 9 11, 2001, as the smoke was billow. And it just, like, fit the contemplation and sadness of what was happening on that day. And the music from this version of Waves just speaks to me in that sort of standpoint. So, 8:2, 2003. Is this our first? I think it might be. Oh, my God. Yeah, I think it is. This is our first IT jam. This is kind of a moment to stop, celebrate. We should just, like, share our memories of it from near and far right now.

[A]

I thought you were going to say that this is our first Mount Rushmore nomination that doesn't have any instruments playing, but it might be that, too.

[C]

Rj, that's hilarious.

[A]

Okay, Megan, go ahead, talk about this joke.

[C]

That's amazing. I love this jam. I just love that this is eight months after the song's debut and they already are just going completely crazy type 2 with it. But it is 2.0. Yeah. I think that this is like the ambient soundscape of my dreams. The last 10 minutes of this jam are just pure transcendence into, like, the outer reaches of the universe. It's reverberating, it's lush. It's an ancestor to the Woodlands Jam and other ambient masterpieces the band has played since then. I listened to the ambient jam on its. Or, I mean, sorry, the Woodlands Jam on its anniversary this year from Mondegreen last year. And when I was listening to this, I just realized how much, you know, this has kind of led the way for that. And I'm so grateful for that. I absolutely love this jam and I'm glad it's on here. And you're right, there are parts of it that don't sound like there are instruments playing. And that's like, one of my favorite things, when fish can just go so far away from. From sounding like the band that they.

[B]

Rj, what do you Think about this version.

[A]

I mean, I've listened to this a lot of times. I like, I like it a lot. I think the, I agree with the, like, the comps that you use in the, in the vibe and the feeling that we're creating here. For me, like, as a piece of improv from Fish, like, I just. It doesn't like, really do a lot for me and I think that people are going to get angry and that's fine. Like, you can, you can get angry. It's really, it's really just. To me, It's. It's like 12 or so minutes of effects, you know, which I think is like cool in its own way.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

I don't consider that like a compelling jam from like, when I'm. When I'm listening to all these in order.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I would say, like, I think it needs to be on the list for all the reasons that you guys both gave. But I think when I'm like, I'm gonna go listen to a jam, this is probably not where I'm going. But again, like, I'll probably get that again, but that's fine. It's just how I feel. I listened to it again just to make sure I wasn't missing something. And I'm definitely not missing anything, like, from my own perspective. So I think I could be totally wrong though.

[B]

Let me ask you just based off of that. I mean, do you. Do you listen to a lot of ambient music or a lot of like, noise music? Or is like the structure of like the melodic element and like the narrative, like, is that, is that essential for you?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I've listened to my fair share. I would say that I probably don't go to it like, yeah, easily, you know.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, I think. I don't know if it's a preference thing or. I mean, because I definitely hear what you're saying. I've had these conversations with, with lots of people about this that like, is this just 10 minutes of the band being like, what sounds can we make? And I think the one thing that intrigues me about this is they did this in 1998 and then they did this. They've done it fairly infrequently since then, but they have done it from time to time where it's just a clear tap into the affection and love that they have for Brian Eno. And I think that this is like a very clear example of them taking a song that sounds almost Eno esque and just applying what he would have done from a Soundscape standpoint. And so that, for me, that's like a. That's like the personal angle of it. I definitely. I think what I hear you saying is, like, this should be on the list, but it's not your preference.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Which. Yeah, I think I really like it.

[B]

There's 777 agreeing with you, so you're not getting yelled.

[A]

But I'm saying I wouldn't. If this was, like, if this is my. If this was my. Like, if I was picking this list, I'd put it on there because I think it belongs on there. For. For all the reasons you said. I think, like, if I'm going for a jam, I would go for a different one in. In terms of the. The waves jams.

[B]

If you're chair picking one.

[C]

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, for me, I just love it when jams are risky. And this seems really risky to me. And also patient. This seems so patient. Like, I like when they're just willing to, like, sit there. Maybe that's why I like the Lakewood Ghost. I don't know. But I just like when they're willing to be patient and spend time in a space, regardless of what that sounds like sometimes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, Trey talks during the early part of. I think it's before they play Birds of a Feather, though. Maybe it's before they play Reba. I don't know. It's sometime during the first set where they haven't started playing a song, and Trey comes to the mic and says, we're just taking our sweet time trying to figure out what to play because we don't got to go anywhere for two days. And, like, you know, they realize, like, in the middle of that first set, they haven't had a festival since Cyprus, and Cyprus was this, like, there was this huge build up towards, you know, the Midnight to Sunrise show before that. As We Go is a festival, but, like, doesn't have the same. Like, we are in the middle of nowhere and we don't have any curfew that we have to worry about vibes. So this is like the first time in, like, five years that these guys are just, like, in the middle of nowhere in Maine playing a festival where they know that they've got, like, the Tower Jam afterwards. And you can just like, feel that sense of, like, we have no place that we need to be. And so we are just going to dive as deep as we. As we. As we need. Which, preference wise, may not be for everyone, but I think we're all in agreement. This should Be on this list?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, most definitely.

[B]

All right. Should I go to my second?

[A]

Yeah, I think you should.

[B]

So there are a couple great versions of Waves from the remainder of 2.0. And then, like you said, Meg, they play it infrequently. At the start of 3.0, we are going to go to a version that I will never forget when we heard this for the first time. And I will never forget how it kind of reshaped for me, what the band was capable of and what they were attempting to do as they got healthy, got some additional support from a business standpoint, and we're rebuilding fish. And that is the bethel tech waves from 5 26, 2011. This version, when it debuted on from the Archives, I think I had heard it before. I think someone had gotten a hold of a tape and it had started to make its way around the Internet spaces I was in. But then you heard the soundboard version that the band clearly reworked, clearly mastered and put up there for everyone to listen to. This begins with an amazing back and forth between Trey and Paige, where Trey turns to Paige and says, do you want to play a jammier song? Paige says, I do. And then Trey says, do you want to play Waves? Paige says, I do. And then they play it for 27 minutes. And they don't just play it. You can hear the band in the moment on stage, figuring out how to escape a song, how to move into a jamming space. And very different from the it waves. This is a jam directly off of the melody of Waves, whereas the it waves is waves and then kind of fade into a jam segment. This is a true Waves jam for me. My favorite part of this is the back half, where melody is really the key here. Again, we're in the ambient comp space here. This is not the terror and the trauma of this disintegration loops. This is the hope and forlorning of stars of the lid. This is beautiful, beautiful music. The melody Trey finds, the sirens that Paige hits. You're just hearing a band starting to figure out, we don't have to go dark, we don't have to go weird. But there is a way to jam and to communicate as a full band if we incorporate melody and stretch melody out as far as we can. So. 5:26, 2011. The Bethel Tech waves Mount Rushmore number two. I can see that the chat hasn't yet blown up, so I have. At least our faithful fans here have not revolted and tried to come at me for some ridiculous stipulations around when this song was performed, but I'll let you guys go.

[A]

Well, I just want to say that just real quick, the only thing I want to add to what you said, which is all totally true, is that that part in the middle where it, like, sounds like Mahavishnu Orchestra for, like, five minutes, is, like, really, like, completely unique. You know, I think it. It's what makes something like this, like, really, you know, worthy of the LPN. LP treatment. But, like, it doesn't sound like anything else they've really ever done. And that's, like. That's awesome.

[C]

Yeah, I love that part, too. It's, like, so freeform and jazzy. It's so great. I also love there's, like, a section eight minutes in when Trey's just noodling. And that, to me, is really Garcia, like. And I hadn't thought about the song sounding like the Grateful Dead until you said that, Brian, but that part really sounds very Garcia, like, to me, the way he's playing in the beginning of that, and he starts to just sort of stretch it out, and so there's space for people to kind of breathe, and the others start to come in more. I love that section. And the end is just so contemplative and beautiful. And there's this riff at 17 minutes that. That Mike finds that he starts repeating it, and it's really hypnotic, and there's this tight beat behind it. And. Yeah, I've started buying vinyl aspirationally. I don't have a record player yet, but I've started buying vinyl, and this is the next thing I'm gonna buy, because I love this.

[B]

It's. It's.

[C]

I love Jam. It's so beautiful. And I think if a band has ever played something and we have a recording of it, then it's. It's fair game.

[A]

Yeah. I was just gonna ask if you would address the big kahuna in the room as. As sure as it were right now, Brian.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think that there needs to be a distinction for them playing on stage or in front of a crowd when they play music, and especially when they release that music, that is as good of an indication as possible that the music matters. I don't know why we would set rules in place for music to not, quote, unquote, count for lists, and for these types of purposes. This is an amazing version of Waves that we all have the privilege of hearing that the band played the four of them plugged in on actual instruments. I mean, I was always of the mindset that they should just play live stream shows during COVID because I think that that type of freedom, we would hear them in a completely different way. I don't know. I guess to me, the band played the music, the music is available for everyone to hear. It is clearly, if not the best, one of the best versions of this song that has ever been played. I think that when you get into what counts versus what doesn't count, you start to eliminate the discourse around music. And this song absolutely deserves this version. Absolutely deserves to be a part of what is like. If I were to Recommend this. Anyone? 4 versions of Waves. This is 100% going to be in there every single time. Because if you skip this over because there's a 11 minute version that was played in front of a crowd, you're just losing out on the great music at that point in time. That's my take.

[A]

I mean, if we could have more soundcheck jams, be eligible for Rushmore, like, I'm all for it. So they should just keep more and then, you know.

[C]

Exactly. This is a good question though. Do you think if there's a studio version of a song that it could ever be on Rushmore?

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I'm just wondering. I'm just like, thinking aloud to release.

[B]

A studio version of a song that is worthy of rushing if we want to get into, like, debates. Like, I have no idea why Fish chooses to record their albums the way that they do. Yeah, like, I listened to Eat a Peach over the weekend and like, that's a great album without Mountain Jam. But then you put Mountain Jam on there and holy shit. Like, that is one of the greatest albums of all time. I don't understand why we don't have the Fish version of that. Where, like, they take, I don't know, the alive one hood and they put it in the middle of hoist. You know, like, here's what we wrote around this time, but then here's how we're playing around this time as well. There's a sterileness to a lot of their studio albums that I wish we would get away from. And I think this type of freeform playing would showcase who Fish is at their core and at their heart.

[A]

I mean, I think, like, the Sigma Oasis got closest.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

Sigma Oasis got close. Yeah. Abdud is talking about studio thread, Incredible purpose. Talking about the Waves studio version. Like, those are two great.

[A]

Well, we need more. So just make more albums. Fish with sweet gems and then maybe you'll see one of them featured on Rushmore. That would be your reward. You know?

[C]

Exactly. Shoot for that, guys. Good luck.

[B]

I mean, they recorded the Victor disc, and, you know, that. That became a HF pod plot line. You know, they. They've done it. They're capable of doing it. They just don't. The headphones. Jam is fantastic. You know, maybe that would count if we ever did, like, a studio Rushmore. No, I mean, I. I appreciate the question from you. I see it here in the audience. I don't mean to put anyone down for their own takes on this. I just. I don't personally understand why we would remove music from conversation.

[C]

Agreed.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Union Federal. Okay. I realize, like. Incredible perp. You're making a good argument here. I hear you. You're making a great argument.

[A]

You're making a good argument.

[C]

To do a studio Mount Rushmore. We could.

[B]

Yeah. That said, I think we all have to be honest that, like, you put on the Story of the Ghost and then you put on all of those songs on Story of a Ghost that became jam vehicles. And, like, are any of those versions on Story of the Ghost going to beat out one of those? I don't know. Maybe. I would vote for the Story of the Ghost version of Ghost over Lakewood. Who knows? You'll never know.

[A]

I say, yeah, let's just have more of them. It was mentioned that they did it with Demand. That is the end of Demand is the 42193 split open and Melt jam from Columbus, which is.

[C]

Yeah. That is sick how.

[A]

It's one of the best. One of the best. Okay.

[B]

It's interesting because Split Open and Melt has a studio track from three years earlier, four years earlier, and then they were like, wait, wait, wait. Now we know how to play this song. Here you go.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Legendary. Legendary version. Okay, let's take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and hear Brian's other two picks.

[C]

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[A]

All right, Brian, where do we go? Where do we go from here?

[B]

Not far. So I want to, I want to address a comment that came up during our extended break. Yeah, Evdude said, I do think pulling off an epic jam in front of 20,000 Pain fans is different when the pressure is off during the soundcheck. Noted. I think that that's absolutely accurate and that is a fitting segue into what we're going to talk about here, because the very next night Fish played the third Rushmore version of Waves and it does not go nearly as far out there as the studio tech version did. And this is definitely the studio or the tech version is definitely kind of an outlier for the era. They weren't playing a lot of 20 minute jams in the early part of 3.0, nor were they really doing any 25 minute jams, you know, during that early part. Don't tell that to RJ, who just took an early 3.0 jam in last week's Rushmore. But you know, sorry, that was a low blow. That wasn't intended. I was just kidding with you, man.

[A]

I don't care. I mean, I. Let's talk about it if you guys want to talk about that. 7 below into ghosts again, Like I'm, I mean, I'll talk about it every single episode. That is the most. That has the most thrilling last 10 minutes of a jam that I've heard in a long time. So, you know, it's great. Keep doing your homework, everybody. Okay, Go ahead.

[B]

Sorry.

[C]

I Hope everybody's listened to that, that has anything to say to RJ about it.

[B]

I think to have dude's point here, I think that there's definitely a difference and we hear it in these two versions. That difference, to me it's not difference enough to not count something. But the number three version here. So waves from 527 11. If you're around fish 3.0 at this point in time, you will know that 5 27, 2011 and then 528 were two of the more important back to back shows of the era. We had not heard the band in five months. They played a fantastic fall 202010 tour. The MSG run featured the Holy Ghost which was a huge moment for people. The 1111 show was really, really great to finish. And so there were these excellent really, really high vibes towards the end of 2010 into 2011. And then they came out and they open with a jam off the Tweezer. They play a type 2 kill devil falls deep in the first set they were playing in Bethel for the first time, which there was a ton of hype around because of the location, because of the history. And then they came out at the end or in the second set and they played this version of Waves that Trey Letter later spok about in an interview and specifically cited that he was trying to play in the style of Alex Scali from the band Beach House, which is one of my favorite groups from the 2010s. Their album Teen Dream was one of my favorite albums from 2010. It's still one of my favorite records that is a complete mood piece. And if you listen to this jam and then listen to a Beach House track from Teen Dream, you just hear the influence all over. These are very blissful melodic train leads. Really interwoven melodies between Trey and Paige. And from a communication standpoint, you really hear the band building off of what happened the night before during the Tech Waves and really just communicating sans effects. So again, we're in a very different space from 8 to 2003. Really kind of building off of what the song's initial melodies are about written within the song, but kind of seeing where those can spread out. So to me, as you think about where this song is going to go in 3.0 and into 4.0, I don't necessarily think that this speaks to what the song actually did, but I think it speaks to what the song could have done and could have been. And it also kind of when. When I think back to 2011 fish, I hear a Lot of influences from this particular jam based off of a lot of the great music that was played during that summer. The song I Heard the Ocean Sing from Watkins Glen, the Tweezer from Dicks just sticking out. The undermine from uic. Just a lot of jams that at their best, the band figured out how to utilize melody as a jamming space versus effects in a really cool way.

[C]

Gorgeous version. The Outro is just. I mentioned it earlier, but it's so lush and contemplative and peaceful. It's beautiful. Absolutely stunning.

[A]

Yeah, the playing is really creative and really. It's a really impressive, like just piece of music. It's so patient. Just like the soundcheck version, you know, it's like you can see the. You can see the overlap. But yeah, it's really good. And it's not. It's not super long, is it? Like 12 minutes, 13 minutes?

[B]

Something around there? Yeah, yeah, huge version.

[A]

But it, but it all. But it all works really well. I think it's. It's great.

[C]

It's so interesting to think about them playing like an almost 30 minute version the night before and then the next night playing a shorter version in front of people. Like, I wonder just as a musician what that feels like and just the choices around that. That's really interesting to me.

[B]

Yeah, I mean there was a lot of conversation around that during the period in time that like. And it started again when they started webcasting shows. This question of like, when they're in front of a bigger audience, are they free to play with this like, level of experimentation and freedom? It's an interesting question. I mean you can definitely see a slow build to what they would ultimately do over Dick's 2012. I think that the Bethel run, especially the first two nights, is one of those stepping stones.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

528 is still. If I give you my five favorite shows of early 3.0, that's definitely on that list. It's pretty perfect. This show is a little bit more of an up and down affair, but like this jam really speaks to the best parts of fish during this era.

[C]

I mean, how many 20 minute jams, 20 plus minute jams were there in 2011, do you think?

[B]

I think there was only one.

[C]

Yeah. So they just weren't doing that.

[B]

Two, two, two.

[C]

Yeah. So they just weren't doing that in front of crowds then? They just weren't.

[B]

No. And so like what you were hoping for at the time was a well crafted set list and maybe 13 to 15 minutes of great music. It is interesting that you know, and to Evdude's point here, like, their freedom that they felt playing the tech version, perhaps they don't feel as free the next night, but they. It clearly wore off on them because you can hear, like the last 10 minutes of the tech version. It's not the exact same melody, it's not in the same key, but you definitely hear some parallels between that version and this version.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And I remember I saw that January 1st show in 2011, and I remember being really pleasantly surprised about where the band was and how they sounded that night, just because I had seen some 09 and some shows in 2010. But yeah, it was such a different time. Like, the expectation level, obviously, so different.

[A]

Yeah, it was pretty different. Did I tell you guys. Did I ever tell you guys about the story? I won't do it now, but did I ever tell you guys about the story of what happened to me during the Reba of that show? 11 11.

[C]

Wait, I have a funny story about that show too. Tell me. You are Really?

[A]

I bet we might have told both of them before.

[C]

Probably have. Yeah. Okay, well, we'll check offline and then if you don't want to say it now, we probably have told them.

[A]

I'll just tell you that a guy was in front of us during the Reba. Jamie.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Who thought he was stuck in the seat and. And they ended up coming in with a bunch of flashlights and taking the seat apart and carrying him out. And he was screaming at Rachel that she was the devil. And that was. That was the re. That was the REBA jam.

[C]

I still can't believe that they actually came and took the seat apart. Like, that is just so extreme. Like, that they didn't figure out that they could take him out otherwise, like, that's just hilarious. That's amazing. Yeah. My story is not as bizarre. It was just that I had a one year old and a two year old and I didn't get out that much at that point. And my friends from college came up for the show and I was massively, massively overserved and had to leave in like the middle about three quarters into second step.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I just couldn't make it anymore. I just couldn't do it. And my friend, I was like, here and like, passed her my. My, like, glass, like little mini bowl and like weed. And I was like, here, just like, take this. And I gave it to her and then I left. And then the next day she came over to my house and she goes, here you go. And it was like a bag of, like, lip gloss and stuff. I had, like, handed her the wrong thing. I was just like. Yeah, I was completely like. Not. Not. I was. We. We were so excited. I was so excited to see them. And I didn't really have my, you know, like, I wasn't back in the saddle yet. I was really, really green still after just having kids. So it was. It was a rough night. Was sad. But I had a lot of fun up until that point, so it's fine.

[A]

So many people did.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that was a really. I wish that that had become more of a tradition for the band. The New Year's Day show, I mean, they've played a couple of those.

[C]

I can't tell if I like it or not.

[A]

That show 116 show was awesome.

[B]

That was a very cool, mellow show with a great. That's one, too. You're right. You're right. That show is. That show is fantastic. That is a rock.

[A]

Okay. It sounds like the 11 show. No, 12 tweezer.

[B]

All right. They should not.

[A]

They should only play on one two.

[B]

You had a ticket for me to one two. And I was gonna drive up from Annapolis, and then I think my son, who was one and a half at the time. No, four months old. Jesus. I think he got sick or he was, like, not sleeping well, and my wife was like, I'd prefer you not go to New York and come back at this point in time. And so I stayed home and immediately they started playing the show. And I was like, fuck, I should have gone. One of those shows where you're just like, I should have done it. But 1111 kind of like, there's a very specific vibe on New Year's Day that is very different from New Year's Eve. Like, extremely different.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And they kind of nailed that vibe on 11 11. Have they done it since then? I think there's been kind of up and down results, but I would like it. I think it's a cool. I think it's a cool thing.

[C]

I do like the pressures off. Like, you know, the gag's over. Like, we're just here to have a good time.

[B]

We're just here to play.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's fun.

[B]

It's like that last night in Miami 2015.

[A]

Yeah. But one one shows have interfered with college football for me, I think twice now in important games. So that. That, to me is a. It's a serious, serious concern.

[C]

Yeah. I'd rather the build up. I like more shows before the Big event. Because then I can usually go to them. So selfish.

[A]

That makes sense. I mean. Well, let's just do more shows. Brian, you got 12 years of waves jams to span here with your last pick. I'm very curious about where we're going because we got. We basically are going from 2011 to 2023 here, and we have one left.

[C]

I have an idea of where Brian's going to go. I'm curious to see if I'm right.

[B]

We are going ahead nine years. I debated two versions following this version, and I ultimately decided on this because I think showcases the jamming evolution of Fish and where they are at with most songs that jam in a way that none of the other versions between 5, 27, 11 and this quite did as well. And that is 2 22, 2020 from Mexico. Fans of this show will remember that this was our 2020 pick when we covered 2020 in the top in 40 for 40. My God, I'm mixing up all of our gags.

[A]

They're called projects, Brian.

[B]

Projects. Excuse me, Series.

[C]

They're called series, guys.

[A]

They're very important.

[B]

They're very important. They create a lot of debate and tension and also endless amounts of love. Speaking of what is love, the ocean is as Trey references towards the end of this version. This show really, really smokes. If you haven't heard this show in a while, go back and check it out. Deeply overlooked because of gestures broadly at the world during 2020. It's almost like this run didn't happen, you know? I mean, the envy of everyone who was there because you got like one last, like, fun in the sun party and then you came back for lockdown. But this version, it's akin to. One thing that really struck me listening to this was how much they already sound like the 4.0 version of the band. We're not going to hear any Fish shows after the following night for 18 months. But the seeds are already there. Whatever happened the previous summer in Alpine Valley with the Ruby Waves is starting to peter out into other songs. We heard it in the msg tweezer from 2019, and we're hearing it here, where there is just a freedom. There is this focus on employing melody and rising up to a peak rather than just having melody dictate everything. We're kind of reinventing songs as jam vehicles at this point in time. Where there's not like a style that you hear ghost play or disease play or tweezer play. There is just like any key is available, any style of music, any rhythmic pattern Any effect is available. And let's just make them all work within the context of a jam as it's building. And so you hear it here, it's just, it's a very, it's very experimental. It's very rock driven. It kind of sounds to me like Fish channeling the War on drugs at times. There's, like, synthesizers from Page. There's a huge heartland rock heroic peak towards the end of it. And I think that if you're gonna listen to the evolution of this song from 2003 to today, this is definitely a step in terms of where the band would go with waves.

[A]

Yeah. I just, I just want to say this show, this is like the, Maybe the closest I've ever been at a show. It's like really second row. Yeah. And it was very. So fun. So fun. And then, yeah, flew back the next day or two days later whenever it was wild. I, I, I just want to say I think that, like, going back into the Soul Planet thing at the end is like, just takes points off for me, because I'm like, why, why, why do you have to.

[B]

I have a funny story.

[C]

And nobody wants to do it with him. Like, nobody joins in. Everybody's like, bad idea. Bad idea.

[A]

Not. But, no, not the time or the place. But, but it's a really good, It's a really good version. I mean, they did play Soul Planet right before, right?

[B]

So they did.

[A]

So they were, like, going back into it, but it's just like, you don't.

[B]

Dramatically. It's there. I have a funny story about this. Can I share it really quick? Yeah. So I was, I was traveling for work. I was in Los Angeles visiting the university I was working for. And I. Which I remember being on the airplane leaving Denver to fly to Los Angeles and looking around and being like, I probably shouldn't be in an airplane right now. Like, we knew that Covid was, like, in America. We just didn't know how bad it was about to get. This was the last, like, this was the last public thing I really did when I was in Los Angeles. And good friend of the pod, Ben Greenfield, invited me over to his house for dinner. We got to meet his lovely daughters, his wonderful wife, see his home in Glendale. He cooked me an amazing dinner, and we went downstairs into his basement and watched this. And he invited his friend over, his neighbor who lives up the road who is a big Dead fan. And he was like, I haven't really introduced him to fish, but he's going to come over to webcast part of the show with us. Really, really cool guy. You guys will get along. He comes over having a great time. Awesome dude. Very, very similar mindset. And they're playing this awesome show and we're listening to this awesome show and Ben and I are kind of raving about it, and they play this great version of Waves and we're both like, oh, my God, this is so good, blah, blah, blah. And then it starts to fade out and Trey comes in with the Ocean is Love. And I think Ben was very embarrassed that his friend, who was a big Dead fan, was witnessing how cheesy Trey can be and just goes, oh, fuck. Why did you do that right now? Why did you ruin this right now? Started laughing. And I don't think his friend was really bothered by it. But, like, I could totally understand, like, you're trying to introduce someone to Fish, someone who you. You're like, you would like this, but there are a few things you're going to have to get over before you really like it. And then they do one of those things that you have to get over and you just lose the sale right then and there.

[C]

Yeah, this. I mean, that part's unfortunate. I think this jam is dramatic and beautiful and I love Fishman in this. He's doing those, like, kind of shreddy sounding percussion and these rolling fills. It's like, really nice and it takes on that kind of horizontal glide. The jam. There is a section that I find, like, a little less interesting. It's like 12 to 13 minutes. It just feels a little bit forced to me. But then they kind of find that crashing, repetitive segment that. That, to me is really indicative of, like, what is. Can be so great about Waves jams when they start to sound a little bit like the Waves. And yeah, I like this. I like how this jam kind of comes back around to that in the end.

[A]

Yeah, I think you're right, Brian, that it sounds a lot like 4.0, which is. Which is cool. I didn't really think about that until going back. Um, like really, like the peak is like texture heavy, but it still works and it's still like. It's. It's really good. Um, I actually think it's better than the 23 version, also from Mexico. Like, with the same idea, but it's almost the same thing. Right. It's like effects and then building back up to the nice kind of bliss. Blissy space.

[C]

But yeah, so that's interesting. I think I like the 23 version better. I think it's really. To me, yeah, I think it's just a little tighter. Like there's. It's only 15 minutes, but it gets a lot done. And it has kind of a mellow, slower energy to it, but it's so pretty and contemplative. And then the last two minutes just kind of builds up. And to me, it just has like a little bit more. More cohesion and there's less of a section that it feels like forced to me. But I did a lot of AB tests with these two. It was tough for me.

[B]

I definitely consider the 23 version is on my honorable mentions. It was definitely in the running for top four. I think it ultimately feels like less of a complete jam than this one does. Even in spite of, like the segment you're. You're describing. They break through that. And I think, for me, want to talk about rules. So those of you who have seen my list of jams, not only am I open to soundcheck jams and hour long festival sets, but I'm also open to segues within my jam. And one of my specific rules is that if there's going to be a segue segment, it has to be a direct segue where it feels not forced at all. Fully natural. And then the song afterwards has to jam.

[C]

Enroll in my class, have to jam. Yes.

[B]

It can't be like Tweezer to Lifebuoy from 1994. You know what I mean? It has to be a jam followed by a jam. And I say that because there's just the hint of Trey ripcording waves into Ruby Waves. And I wish it wasn't there because if it wasn't there, you would get this amazing tier one waves. Ruby Waves jam. It would look great on paper. The waves. Ruby Waves. It would sound great in your ears. But it's just like one of those moments for Trey's like, I'm done playing this. We're playing Ruby Waves now.

[C]

Now.

[B]

And that always gets me at the end of this. And it was the final deciding factor. Even more so interesting than the deal breaker of the Ocean is.

[C]

Love that. So you're. Yeah, that's interesting because of course, when I re. Listen to this, I listen to it without the ruby waves. Yeah, that's interesting. And maybe because I was at the show, this is the only time I went to Mexico. And yeah, I loved this show. But to me, this was the best show of that run. And yes, I have great memories of it. And I think this whole set is just so great. There's like this huge Ruby waves. It's like a great shock. Does Great gin and like they open the show with dinner and a movie. Is a huge bust out. And yeah, in Mexico you can get so close and it's not stressful and it was just. I'd never been there and it was just a cool night. So. Yeah, this has like a special place in my heart. But I still, I still like it more.

[B]

Mexico is worth the money, especially when they play great.

[A]

Yeah, it's really fun. Okay, we got some. Some fan versions here. Okay. You guys want to hear the fan vote?

[C]

I do, yeah. Definitely.

[A]

Okay. They're with Brian. We're with. We're with Brian and the team on three, which is 820-352-6 11 and 222 20. But the fans have 6.20.04 in between the 8203. I mean I like, you know that summer. There are pieces of that summer that are growing on me, I think. Like Trey friends me long enough trace sounding so messy for so many. For so much of so many of these jams. Just like I don't like the 62004 version, which I'm sure one of you was going to mention. Like, I think you know, like the kind of grungy groove from Summer 04 is. Is great and it's really cool, but like I can't. I still really can't get. Get beyond the like just the like, well where even am I vibe I get from him for most of it.

[C]

Yeah. I love that jam. That's one of my honorable mentions. My only honorable mention, to be honest. Because the end the 10 minutes is so propulsive and driving and just stays that way. And I think there are versions of waves that get really driving and really rocking. And I kind of wanted to have one of those on my list, but I don't. But yeah, I hear what you're saying.

[B]

I didn't even have that version of my honorable mentions. I wanted to man we're ever gonna do like four song set drafts, like 6.20.04. Just marking that down right now will be taken from me. Love, love, love that set.

[C]

Mental note. Oh, just kidding.

[B]

The drowned to close out set one. I think my issue with it, I'm actually. This is confessional hour. I'm losing love for 2004 fish. The further and further we get from it and the more and more modern fish that we get. That is so great because when you listen to the 8-2-2003 version and AB that was 622,004. We're not just talking about jam differential here. Like the plane is so different. The way that Trey sounds at the end of summer 2003 versus the way that he sounded in June 2004. It's a steep clip that you're dropping off of. And I certainly understand, like, that that Waves got a lot of love during that period in time and then the breakup years. But when I re listened to it, I was just like, it's a peak jam that is also very messy. And so I didn't think it was doing justice to the song. But that's just me. That's just me.

[A]

Can I just say something real quick? First of all, I want to read Forbin777's list, which was 6200-4102-1182-2220 and 224 23. It's good.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yeah. I want to say that I went back to the fall 13 version, which we talked about fall 13amillion times, and I like how it's used as a jam vehicle, like, in that show. And I mean, that whole tour was just so great, but it's making me feel that the jamming in, like, 2013 was, like, kind of basic compared to where they are now.

[B]

We talked about that during our. During our Top Tours episode where we were like, this feels like the basic. Like this very foundational reset of where we're at today. I had that version in my top four until yesterday, and I swapped it for 527 because of similar reasons. What I felt about 224 23, that it just. It's kind of lopped off at the end. There's no, like, natural conclusion, but there's some great. When Paige stands up, we all get down moments in there. There's some, like, weird darkness, a lot of cool chordal jamming, and a World Series reference. Great World Series reference. Yet another reason why Fish should tour every late October. Not only do you get a Halloween show, but you also get the band commenting on baseball. Think about the 2014 run when they played in San Francisco, when the Giants won the World Series and they played We Are the Champions. Anytime Fish and sports meets, I'm just. I'm here for. For it.

[A]

Can we hear Evadude's list real quick? Which is yes, 8203 620, 0452611 and 222 20. So he's 1.11 and 2.0 heavy and, well, I guess early 3.0, but he's got the first three on the list. Are there any other versions that you guys want to Shout out before we. Before we put this all in. In stone for good.

[B]

The only other one I wanted to mention was 1021 18, which I had not really listened to a ton prior to this exercise. And it's great. I dock a lot of points for the 32nd segue into Rise Come Together. Sorry, we're never going to do a Rise Come Together Rushmore. Even though there's one version.

[C]

There's one.

[B]

But when you start to hear the, like, you're like, oh, my God. Right in the middle of the second set. Like, now is when you're choosing to play this song. Are you kidding me, dude? So, unfortunately, that. That had to get knocked off, but it's a great version until there.

[C]

Okay, can I counter Dark and Jazzy?

[A]

It is really dark and jazzy. And that.

[B]

That.

[A]

That had. There's like some timber jamming going on there. The effects were so serious. That tour, Leslie. Yeah, all happening. But Brian, that show, which, as you guys know, I was at that show and we got a double encore. So, like, I think we can trade off a encore to you. Enjoy. Myself for Rise Come Together also is.

[B]

RJ's 100th show, which is why he's totally advocating for it.

[C]

Would that have made your rush more.

[A]

No, I don't think so. I think. I think the right. I think Brian made the right call. I do think the. I think the 52711 is the hardest one because it's not super exploratory, but I think what it does is really different. And I think, like, pairing it with the night before is like a good way to. I mean, it just brings attention to the fact that that, like, Soundcheck jam is like, maybe one of the most important things that happen in early 3.0, you know?

[C]

Yeah, I like that. I hadn't really thought about that because I didn't have 5:27 on my list just because I felt I had the night before. And I just kind of felt like, well, I wouldn't do it if I had the night before. But then hearing your argument for it and thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. I agree.

[B]

See, when you break the rules, sometimes you make sense.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

A couple comments we need to address here really quickly. Forbin77 search. If you have live fish, search in.

[C]

The albums LP on LP.

[B]

LP on LP2. That will be your guide for 52611. I think that there's a version on Relisten. I'm going to check it right now.

[A]

You guys talk with the Radio City guys.

[C]

I mean, And I'll. If you, if you message me, I'll send you the. I'll send you the waves playlist. I. I can't put them publicly anymore because lavish links do not go on the Internet. But I can email them to anybody. So if you email, I have a list of people that I email all.

[B]

This stuff to because there's an odd copy on relisten. If you just search the year 2011, it'll be the second one, but yes. So. All right, we have one more. Hold on. We have one more forbin77 note here because we have a new idea now for. It's not our next draft.

[C]

That is cool.

[B]

Maybe our first draft of 2026 will. Will potentially be a segue draft. I gotta figure out how to do this. Maybe it's like, you know, a two song segue. A three. A three song. Like maybe a Sam.

[A]

No, I don't know, Brian, I think you're. I think you're overthinking it. I think it has to be just. It has to be the segue. A single segue. Like you're thinking of it as like a fest kind of vibe. I'm thinking of it as like.

[C]

Well, I think we could either way, segues. Oh, he's trying to think of categories though, right?

[B]

I'm thinking about categories. Like what would it be like? Like, like so like to your point, like two songs that segue, A three song, like a sandwich type of thing, A tweezer fest segment. Like there's a lot.

[C]

It'd have to be just the segue that mattered. Like. Well, I don't know. It depends. Like, would you count? I guess we could talk about this later but like if you. If the jam. Like would the jam count as part of the segue? Like if the jams are.

[B]

I think it has to. Like for example, the 6292000 drowned in a rock and roll.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

The Segway is probably the most exciting part. But the jam and drowned is like fucking hypnotic. And if there was never a segue. So I think I want to get to work. Thank you for that is amazing.

[A]

Well, as long as there's a. Go ahead, Megan.

[C]

I was going to say you could also just do the categories by like 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0. If you wanted to do it simpler, if you wanted to just do. Do two.

[B]

Why would I do it?

[C]

Simple.

[B]

The categories are part of the presentation here.

[C]

Okay, fair.

[A]

I saw two. Simple. Saw two of the best segues in terms of, like, the actual act of making. Of doing a segue two nights in a row in 1997. The tweezer and Isabella from 12 6.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the Psycho Killer the next night, which was. Were both just like. They were so smooth with. So awesome. Such energy. God, that number one.

[C]

God, that psycho vibes.

[B]

Number one tour vibes.

[C]

Number one tour vibES.

[B]

Speaking of it, rock and roll into 7 Below into sense and subtle sounds to start off set three. That is just like. Everything just works. Oh, my God, that is such an amazing, amazing run there.

[C]

I like festivals on Mount Rushmore. I think that's like. It just goes to show how important these are to the band.

[B]

Truly. Truly. That's a great point from ecw.

[C]

You should draft the best ghosts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, good Here. Here's the thing, guys.

[A]

Let's do it.

[C]

Yeah, let's do it, RJ. We'll give you that.091. You can just have it. I'm not going to steal it from it.

[B]

Jamith has been Rushmore does not mean it cannot be drafteth.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so we. This is a great call. There are certain songs here. Tweezer. We did a Tweezer draft. We will also do a Tweezer Rushmore. The draft in the Rushmore is a very different vibe and energy. And I will just say going off script here for a second. We are adjusting our Rushmore approach ahead of the next episode, which we will share more information with you about online.

[C]

I want to hear what people think. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, we're gonna.

[C]

We're gonna.

[B]

We're gonna share what we're gonna do. You want me to share what we're gonna do?

[C]

I don't know. Rj. What do you think?

[A]

Yeah, it's fine. I think we should have. But I thought of something while we were talking, which I think we should each have our Alamo. Our Alamo jam that we bring to the discussion, which is like, which one are we. Were we willing to defend almost to the death?

[C]

Okay, I love that. Okay, well, explain it. Explain it, Brian.

[B]

Do we get to actually, like, like. Like, really scare someone with, like, a threat to kill them just to see how much they'll defend that? Or is this just, like, play?

[C]

No, it's fine.

[A]

Totally fine. Do whatever you want.

[C]

I don't want to be threatened to death. Absolutely not.

[B]

I'm in the middle of this right now, which is, like, clearly the most grotesque torture scenes I've ever read in my entire life. It's like my head is in a very dark place right now.

[C]

Wait, but does it have enough romance? Is it like balanced with the romance?

[B]

Very, very little romance. Gus gets his heart broken. This is what sets up Clara moving to Ogalala. There's like a lot of skinning happening. It's really intense stuff. That said. So Rushmore updated. When will you return? Which we will tell you what our next Rushmore is going to be. This is going to be much more of a collaborative effort going forward. We've been doing a lot of internal discussions around how the show is going, how we are approaching this, and what we are ultimately realizing just to give you guys some behind the scenes stuff. Because of the way that the show is currently constructed with one person bringing their Rushmore and everyone bringing their supportive Rushmores, it's a very secretive process until we get on air and it ends up, I think, raising the stakes unnecessarily for an individual, creating potential animosity. And it just doesn't deliver. The best show. The best, the best show is us bringing to you what we all think as a collective group is the definitive, are the definitive versions of these songs. And then you all come in at us and we having to defend each other, you know, in a, in a triangle type of, you know, the, the, the whatever the Mongols are coming and we've got to defend ourselves type of thing. So going forward, we are going to adjust our process internally and then as we present future show, future versions, they will all be four collective versions voted on by us internally for you all to hear. And then in addition to that, like RJ said, we will tie someone up to a stake and say, what is the version that you were willing to be tortured and killed for? And that person will then reveal what that is. And if we agree with them, we won't torture or kill them. Them if we don't. Can't guarantee all bets are off at that point in time. So we'll be curious your guys feedback and your thoughts on it. This is going to be a long series. Like we have enough versions to last us into 2027 based on the way we're scheduling it. So we are willing to update this if everyone's like, what the hell? The tension is gone from the show. I have no interest in listening to it. I'd rather listen to a 3,000 episode AI podcast. You know, that sounds like a much better use of my time. We're willing to take your feedback and your, and your, your, your comments here, but you know, throwing that out ahead of our next Rushmore episode and I.

[C]

Think that we will still Bring. If we have outliers that we really care about that we want to talk about and kind of explain what we had wanted, I think we'll be doing that, too. So we'll keep some of that, the personality and the kind of contrasting ideas to the show, too. But I think we also see it as the show leaving an arch. So if you think about top 25 tours or 40 for 40, those are things we worked really collaboratively on, and it really is kind of an HF pod version of all of those. And so we want to make sure the Rushmore is the same.

[A]

Yeah. And I just want to say that we. I brought this to the. To the group before the Ghost Rushmore. I'm just saying. I just want this to be clear. That is not.

[C]

Oh, yeah, it's not reactionary. No.

[B]

We've been talking about this for a while.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It would have been an interesting conversation. And maybe we'll have to redo our. Maybe we'll have to redo. Maybe we should go back in, like, three years and redo the first however many we've done, because.

[B]

Yeah, I already think that there's like a. Almost like a bonus element contemplation of, like, what would we do differently with our first couple that we'll. We'll include. We'll have fun with them. We'll. We'll take a vote on. But that's where we're going with it. What else we got?

[A]

What are we doing next week? We're talking about fish shows that are about to happen, so.

[B]

Upcoming calendar for our listeners.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

We've got our fall Tour Week 1 recap next week.

[C]

Really? Do they. Wow, that's crazy.

[B]

They start on Friday. That's.

[C]

I have not. I just think. Yeah, that's wild.

[B]

They're playing at the Bourbon and Blues Festival in Louisville, and then they're playing what in Alabama? So we'll be covering those shows. And then they've got a couple other shows, Alpharetta, and then they've got Hampton. And so we'll be covering those the following week. And then after that, we're doing a mailbag episode. So if you have voicemails, you can send them in. We will respond to the best voicemail, so it better be a good fucking voicemail. Okay.

[A]

No one. No one has sent anything in to rework the int intro to Kildel Falls, which is a little bit sad.

[B]

That is a huge passion project for us. You should be sending your reworked versions.

[C]

Huge.

[B]

This is the song that needs to be changed. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, we Just remembered that we asked for it.

[B]

That can't happen.

[C]

I feel like we get. I get a text from one of you guys every, like, four months that's like, why don't they just change the intro to Kill Devil Falls? It's, like, so funny. It's reliable text.

[B]

I've been informed that it's actually called Bourbon and Beyond Festival, but I'm going to keep it as Bourbon and Blues Festival because that sounds more appropriate for Fish. Opening a tour at a Bourbon and Blues Festival.

[C]

That is a trip. That is a trip.

[B]

Any you guys going to Hampton? I'm not going.

[C]

Sadly, I'm not going to Hampton. That's why I wish this tour was later in the year because, you know, schools just started. It's really hard for me to take off right now. So I'm not. Not doing Hampton. I'm sad. I still have never been to Hampton. And so another year go by, but I'm gonna obviously webcast it.

[B]

And, yeah, the idea of Fish, I don't know.

[C]

It's pretty fun.

[B]

Seeds. The.

[C]

The. When I went to Charles, how much you guys were Charleston Coliseum. I know. I mean, I waited forever in that line. It was waited so long. My friend's chocolates melted in her bra. We just waited so long to get into the show. Show. But it was worth it. We got killer seats.

[B]

Bourbon's getting his first Hampton shows. That is special.

[A]

Very special thing and such news. Oh, my God. I can't believe nobody's been to Hampton. What is going on? Are we even allowed?

[B]

My fellow 102013 Tweezer stand over here. You and I will die on this hill.

[A]

I'll die on that hill for sure.

[B]

I will with you. I will. I will be right there for you. You know, know I won't abandon you like Rose did. Jack, you know I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna be there with you. But. So fall tour. Fall tour. And then I want to give you guys a preview of our next Rushmore, which is coming out the week of October 6, which is about a man who has done some really amazing things and said some really amazing things. And his name is just like the best name that you could ever imagine. When you hear it, you hear peace and tranquility and understanding. This man is a great, great, great man. He has only been played 28 times, so. All 28 versions.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

This man's song are going to be eligible for Rushmore.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

This man is very rare. This song appears at sometimes the best shows, but then also sometimes the. Huh you decided to throw that in here. Shows.

[C]

The shows Megan are never at.

[B]

The shows that Megan is never at. This is a man. This is red rocks. This is the edge. We're talking about Ikyulus. We're going to do a Rushmore episode the week of October 6th. I just listened to every version of Iculus while watching baseball the other night, which is a hell of an experience. Just literally listening from 1986 to 2024 fish in like, an hour and a half.

[C]

That's awesome. Yeah.

[B]

It's like a history.

[C]

It's like a history lesson. Yeah.

[A]

The things you do for this community are just unbelievable.

[B]

While watching baseball.

[A]

While watching baseball.

[C]

Multitasking, of course.

[A]

That's wonderful.

[B]

I've said, could you turn off the baseball? I said, I'm working here. Come on.

[A]

All right, so we're doing two weeks of fall tour Mailbag, Iculus.

[C]

Let's go.

[A]

Our mailbag. Our last mailbag episode was one of our most popular of the year, so we're excited about that. We have lots of. We have a backlog of voicemails still. We want more. We're going to take your questions live in the chat. It's going to be just. It's going to be awesome.

[C]

Maybe if we do a Rushmore Ikyulys, I'll actually get one.

[A]

Maybe.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Maybe, maybe, maybe. We'll see.

[A]

We're gonna find out. We're gonna find out. I guess New Year's. We'll find out, Megan. So.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Book your. Book your tickets. Maybe after. After Fish does. All right, Are we ready?

[B]

Be interesting to know if they're doing New Year's this year. You don't feel like they should at least announce that just to settle our nerves? I don't know what the wa. Are they not selling? Is Fall two or not sold out?

[C]

Hampton is Hampton. Tickets are hard to get, from what I understand.

[B]

Right. Like, I. I was taking the time.

[A]

It's called trust the process, Brian.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

All right.

[B]

How's that working on Sixers fans?

[A]

Not well. All right.

[C]

Camp to Niculus. Oh, man.

[A]

I think. All right, so we're gonna see you guys back here next week. We're gonna do our first round of fall, fall, late summer, early fall tour recaps. So we're gonna see you guys then? I think that's it.

[C]

Yeah. See everybody then.

[A]

All right. Bye, guys.

[B]

We'll see you guys. Sam, Osiris.

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