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- [00:01]
Brian
This episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado. When it's time for you to ditch the blacktop and head off road, do it in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado trail boss. Get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2 inch factory lift, plus impressive torque and towing capacity thanks to an available Duramax 3 liter turbo diesel engine. Where other trucks call it quits, you'll just be getting started. Visit chevy.com to learn more. 24 chefs 24 culinary showdowns for 24 hours straight, which chef will out cook, outpace, outlast the competition? No chef escapes the clock. Season premiere 24 and 24 Last Chef Standing Sunday, April 27th at 8. See you first on Food Network Stream.
- [00:57]
Megan
Next day on Max.
- [01:01]
Brian
Osiris.
- [01:18]
Megan
Hey, everybody, we are back. We are here to do. I'm gonna call these quick Hits. Brian, Megan, are you okay with using that terminology?
- [01:27]
Brian
Previous branding?
- [01:29]
Megan
Yeah. People like the idea of quick hits.
- [01:32]
Brian
IB if they're quick, can we be quick? The original incarnation of the quick hits was always funny how depending on which of you were hosting, they would either be quick or not.
- [01:47]
RJ
Yeah.
- [01:48]
Brian
With rj, it was like seven minutes. What do we do? Everything. Okay. Was it a good show? Did you have a good time? Yeah, I thought that the jams were cool. Okay, we're out.
- [01:59]
RJ
So true.
- [02:00]
Megan
I don't think that said that. That's like a little bit of an exaggeration, but I appreciate it.
- [02:04]
Brian
Brian's Quick hits are like, all right, we got like three sections within a section.
- [02:11]
Megan
I'm just focused. I'm just very focused, you know, you're economical.
- [02:17]
RJ
I'm economical.
- [02:18]
Megan
I gotta tell you guys something. On Saturday when I was traveling, I. I pressed the wrong button on my phone and like, I got out of the car and like, you know, something happened to my phone and suddenly I was like in the settings where it was telling me to change my home screen photo. And I'm not sure why, but it's. It suggested doing like a photo shuffle. And I said, I said yes. And I've never done this before. And I gotta tell you, over the past 48 hours, it's basically like the coolest thing that's ever happened to me because that's every, like, every like two hours, it shows you a new photo, mostly of, like, kids. And it's like, they like, that's awesome. They also, I mean, it's scary, but they're like finding the best photos of your kids and putting them in like, portrait mode. They like, they crop It. So, like, every couple hours, you get, like, a new awesome photo on your home screen. And I just want to tell you that it's a good way to surface memories. Brian, have you done this?
- [03:17]
Brian
No. It's funny because my wife has this on her phone, and I cannot figure out how to do it on my phone. And 99.9% of technological things are solved by me in our house. And this is the one thing that, like, I've gone out and searched for this on my phone, and I cannot figure out how to do it because I would really like this feature. I've got the same adorable pictures of my kids going on 18 months now, and they don't look like that anymore. Yeah, like, grown like crazy. I want to, like, want to see the new and the old and all of that and whatnot.
- [03:46]
Megan
It's. It's pretty cool. You should do it, man.
- [03:48]
RJ
I will. I think my home screen for my kids is, like, three years ago.
- [03:53]
Megan
Well, I. The. The thing about this is, I mean, I'm sure it's, like, very advanced technology, but it's not showing me, like, blurry concert photos or, like, the. The photo I try to take, like, you know, in the bar, like a pocket, like, picture. Yeah, they're, like. They're. They're really high quality, so I just want to give a plug for that. Okay.
- [04:11]
Brian
We love our algorithms here. I'll tell you what.
- [04:13]
Megan
Yeah, let's just get. Let's just get into this. We had three shows to talk about. We got two in Seattle, one in Portland. And I want to talk more about each show, obviously, but I got a question for you guys, because we're texting with a friend, a friend of the POD and a friend of ours about kind of about listening to these shows. So we've talked about this a little bit, but how important is it for you guys when you're listening to new shows to hear something that you consider to be new? Like, how much does that affect how you think about the show, how excited you are, how you evaluate it? Like, that concept. Whatever. That concept of hearing something new means to you.
- [04:55]
Brian
It's an interesting question because I feel like, especially early in a tour, early in a year, you're always kind of listening to that. Like, what is going to be the new sound for this year? I feel like we've talked about this a lot, though, that I'm pretty conscious of. I don't really know of, like, a new style we're going to get from Fish, so I don't know if I'm expecting that it's more. What are the different ways they're approaching the set list? How are new songs working into the set list, if there are new songs? And then finally, like, are there any new areas of experimentation that they are messing around with or something that they are revisiting? Which is a little bit of foreshadowing for the conversation to come. But that's, you know, that's how I look at it.
- [05:42]
RJ
I'm thinking mostly about their last run and how they sound different or the same a lot of the time. And I'm just trying to think about if there's a pattern in their jamming, like, if there's something they're doing in their jamming that's consistent throughout, which I think there definitely was this weekend. And, yeah, sometimes I do think it's hard for them to discover new sounds or new styles at this point. Like, they can have new toys and play with new ideas, but they're going to be within the bounds of something probably they've done within their last 42 years. But I'm just always looking to see if here. If they sound connected and inspired. I think more than anything.
- [06:27]
Megan
Yeah. And I think. Yeah, I agree with that. I think. Well, I have a hot take, but I don't know if I'm allowed to say it because Brian made fun of me when I said I had a hot take. So I don't know if I'm allowed to say it, but. But I also.
- [06:39]
Brian
On air, there's no proof there, evidence that I made fun of you for anything. Give us your hot take.
- [06:43]
Megan
Well, maybe I also feel like maybe the New Yorker article, like, what I was saying to my friend earlier is like, I feel like the New Yorker article, part of the point is like. And this is just me interpreting it. Not what they said directly, but sort of like they're appreciating being in those moments together and not necessarily as focused on creating something that they have never done before. Although Fishman does talk about, like, being in place, finding himself in places that he doesn't know how he got to, but it feels like that's not the focus. Like, the focus is being in the thing, whatever it is, together, which I think probably leads to more familiar places and then some that aren't. As opposed to, like, back in the old days when it was like, the point was to get to somewhere they had never gotten to before. So I don't know. That's, like, my interpretation of it. I don't know what you guys think.
- [07:34]
Brian
About that, but, yeah, No, I agree with that. And I was. I was thinking about that to a certain degree because part of, like, some of the best parts of that article were talking about. Well, we're further realizations that the band is as conscious and cognizant of their history as we are. And it seems like, because I remember you would get these interviews with Trey in, like, 2011, 2012, where he was like, everything's great. This is the best it's ever been. Nothing's ever been as good as this. And it was like, is it like, I'm here for the. I'm here for the joy and the rebirth of the fish experience and the fact that we all get to experience this again? Um, but is it, like, the best? Like, are. Are we all on the same page or are we just saying that to, like, reaffirm and, like, continue to sell tickets, like, we're all going to still come, even if you were like, last tour kind of sucked. But, you know, he said. He said in the New York article, like, it took us a couple of years to get things back, and then we played the Tweezer in Tahoe, which is clearly a gigantic moment in 2013, obviously, other moments, summer 2012, fall 13, so on and so forth. My point is, it feels like they're at the place that they wanted to be when they decided to come back in 09. And I think that they've been here ever since COVID where they can. They have, like, an emotional understanding and an emotional connection to each other that they probably didn't even have in the 90s because of how much they've been through and how old they are and how long this friendship has been going on, how many hours they put into the music post 2009 that they're able to tap into this kind of muse and this inspiration in a show way easier than they could have in the early parts of 3.0. All those building blocks. But every time they tap into it, are they expected to do something completely different? Or is it just that we love that 18 to 25 minute space and maybe something remarkable happens, like the middle part of the ruby waves from msg. So, like, does that make sense? Like, I. I think it's kind of like a little bit of both. I think they just like being in this space.
- [09:53]
RJ
I mean, I disagree a little bit. I agree with what both of you are saying, but I think that the undertold story of this band is that what defines them is evolution. I think our 40 for 40 series really proved that, like, the one thing you can say about this band is they've continued to evolve. Something that I think articles don't talk about enough, something that I think interviews don't mention, is that this band evolves in a way that very few bands ever do. And the fact that this continues to be underreported is just confusing to me. But I guess people from outside just really don't know. Know enough about it. But I think that we'd be kidding ourselves if we think that Trey didn't want to do something fucking amazing and new every night. He steps on stage like, he listens to new music all the time. He's constantly messing with his rig. He's constantly, you know, getting new effects and trying new things out, and he's. I think all of them are. I think you're right, rj, and that they're happy to be where they are and they appreciate the moment. But I also think Trey is incredibly ambitious and driven towards evolution, and that's why he wants to do things like the Sphere and try all this stuff out. It pushes them. So in a way, I think they are trying to continue to evolve, and they're not really just sitting like.
- [11:14]
Megan
Well, yeah. And I think it can both. It can. It kind of depends on the definition of evolve in this scenario. Right. Like, it can mean a lot of different things. It doesn't have to necessarily mean, like, that the sounds that are coming out of the improv are different than they've ever played before. It could be, like. It could be a lot of other things. I mean, Sphere is a good example of just like, it was. It was everything together, not just, like, the music. It was like the experience. Right. And I feel like they're more. He's more tapped into, like, he's thinking more about the experience for fans, I think, than he. Then they did for a while, I.
- [11:53]
RJ
Think now, like, really interesting.
- [11:54]
Megan
Yeah, I think it's like he. They're really focused on, like, what is. What are the fans getting out of this? But I don't know. I mean, I'm. I think you're. I agree with what you're saying, though. I mean, Trey definitely never is. He's never sitting still, you know, in. In. In a musical sense or a physical sense, based on what I know, but I don't.
- [12:12]
Brian
Which. That recognition was not known for a long time.
- [12:16]
Megan
Right.
- [12:17]
Brian
If he's felt that way about, like, he wants. Like, he knows what the fan. Like, he's. He's clearly. They. The band themselves talks about a lot of benchmark moments that the fans have obsessed about online for decades in that article. That only happens because they're like as tapped into it in a sense. I mean, probably not the way that we are, but like, they're tapped into. Like that worked. That didn't work. And I think that's. It was really interesting for me to hear them talk in there about that. They didn't think 1228 worked. Why they didn't think it worked. That they felt like they had to do a. A exercise, like a musical exercise to overcome that. Then they felt like everything connected. That is a constant line of conversation and debate within the community of like, does the band walk off stage and feel like this didn't actually connect or is it just us being overly critical? That was cool to hear that. No, no, they. They hear that as well. They, they. They feel that as well. And they know the difference between a really good show and a show that just is a fun concert out. I think to your point, rj. I think to both of your points and evdude makes this as well. This comment we have posted on the screen. The evolution is more nuanced now versus the big stylistic changes of the 90s and early 2000s. I think that part of evolution to what you're talking about, rj, is we've never really gone through a period where two, three years in a row have been high, high quality fish. The whole experience has always kind of been like a big new sound. The band gets a lot out of it and then they evolve and things get a little samey for like six months to eight months and then they find a new sound and it peaks again. And it kind of like would always go through these ebbs and flows. If you think back to since early 2023, I don't think we've really had like a down six, seven show period in time in that period in time during those two years. And this tour so far feels like a continuation of that.
- [14:27]
RJ
Well, that's the evolution. Consistency. Maybe that's the evolutionary marker right now. And yeah, maybe it's not going to be so stylistic, but it's going to be in this level of consistency that we can expect. And I do think what you're saying, rj, is super interesting about the contract between the audience and the band now and how that's much more explicit and how the evolution is also in that. In that there's more communication between the band and the fans and there seems to be more shared responsibility. And I think the band feels in a way not that they owe us but that the respect we give them, they give back to us.
- [15:10]
Megan
Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of the. I think a lot of the evolution, at least in the way that they talk about it now, has to do with, like, their relationship, which they didn't really talk about for a really long time, even if it obviously is part of. It's part of the dynamic, you know, of course. But it's interesting, and it's interesting to think about, like, there's timing. The timing of that. Of that piece obviously, like, makes a lot of sense, you know, as it relates to the tour.
- [15:36]
Brian
It's really wild to think about Trey walking off stage after Vegas 04 shows and asking friends of his, did anyone out. Did anyone actually like that shit? Because, like, that is, like, a memory that he clearly has that you contrast that with now, where, like, I think even the shows that we may not be as high on or the community at large, nobody's feeling like the band is, like, walking out there and just, like, all over the stage and being, like, cool, thanks for the 4750. Like, you know, like, the bit like they. They are. Is it their friendships? Is it their sonic evolution? Is that experimentation? I mean, I think back to your original question, rj. I don't think that we heard this weekend, and maybe we can start diving into this, but, like, I don't think we heard the, like, onslaught of new sounds that we got back in 2021 and 2022. I think we're kind of in a slight lull for a new piece of equipment to just dramatically change the sound of a jam and then push them in that direction. And Jerry's still out if we're going to get that. Yeah, but there is. Well, we'll get into it. I think we have a lot of thoughts about the jamming, at least. At least I know I do.
- [16:59]
Megan
So my hot take is that I think Sunday was the night, was the first night that I really heard anything new, which I think bodes well for the tour. And I think there are pieces throughout and probably parts that you, Brian, want to talk about that. That add up to it, but there are a couple of moments from last night's show where I feel like this is really, like, a thrilling journey. And I. And I didn't feel that from Friday or Saturday, but I felt pieces of it. And then I feel like it came together last night, which I think, like, really. And, you know, you guys know, like, I've been. I've been less. I've been less thrilled with the past couple of years, I think, than a lot of people. Although I've. I've loved it. But I think, you know, this has been. It's been a. It's been. Like you said, we're in a little bit of a lull, sound wise. A little bit. There's like little jumps here and there. But I feel like since fall 21, we've been kind of like we've been kind of an. Either a slow incline or an incline and then a plateau. But I felt like last night's show had a couple of moments that really felt new and exciting and I think that's cool for the, for the tour.
- [18:03]
Brian
Can I answer your question based off of that and both of you guys, so I don't disagree. I think if you put on a best of 4.0 playlist like one of us has made and sent out to friends and encourage them to shuffle because it's really fun to do. But you, like, sometimes something will come on and we'll get into a jam and I'll be like, I wonder when this is from. Oh, it's 2022. But it sounded like 2023 or 2024 to me. Not in a bad way. Like, yeah, but if they're working through some evolutionary change or they've just settled into like, hey, we're really enjoying the fact that we can just lock in and play a 26 minute long jam without effort. You think back 10, 12 years ago, those periods of slight lulls in evolution were marked by shows with 25, 30 songs where the band was just like, well, we can't really. We don't really have a new style to play in, so let's just play a bunch of songs. Would you rather this where you're guaranteed big jams and unique set lists or what we got then? Which was like, we're not in a new creative space, so let's just like give you a ton of Fish songs.
- [19:14]
Megan
Yeah, I mean, this is great. It's a great time to be a Fish fan. There's no question. Okay, I. But I do think that it's a little bit, as I heard, as my friend said, like paint by numbers at times, which I think is fine.
- [19:28]
RJ
Yeah, I think. I mean for me, I definitely prefer it now. But I also think that they're doing a better job set listing. Way better recently. I do think that it is very similar and I think maybe this is what your friend was saying, rj, because like, if you look at a lot of these set lists, they're playing a lot of the Same songs that they played, like, in Mexico. It was all the same songs they played in Mexico. Mexico was all the same songs they played over the New Year's run, you know, which is fine. They're not doing, like, you know, randomly here and there. You'll get a bust out or a rarity, but it's pretty rare. Most of the time they're playing, like, the same kind of group of songs, which I think is fine because it's working. And I think the shows are flowing a lot better. And big jams, especially when they're in the first set, like in this run, that kind of makes up for. For a lot. And I think they sound. On this run especially, they sounded the best when they were jamming. So I think that seems to be like a comfortable spot for them right now, and I think it's awesome. But I'm excited to talk about the jamming.
- [20:39]
Megan
Yeah, yeah, let's. Okay, so let's get into it. We have done a good job on this quick hit so far of. Of getting straight to the shows.
- [20:46]
Brian
Mr. Quick Hits. Hey, let me ask a big, unanswerable, broad question for us to talk.
- [20:52]
Megan
I think it ties into podcasting, baby.
- [20:55]
Brian
I love it. Thank you, rj. More of this.
- [20:57]
Megan
It tie. It ties into the past two weeks of, like, press and music. I think it, like. I think it's all part of the story, you know, it's got to be a story. Okay, do you think the fish is.
- [21:09]
Brian
Here for, like, the fake guerrilla marketing or are they here for the.
- [21:15]
RJ
There's another band that we have questions about that as well. Right. Or that people are asking about. It's just about, like, commercial.
- [21:22]
Brian
I got no more questions about that band. I'm just ready to. I'm ready to in the groove, baby.
- [21:28]
Megan
Okay. Friday. Friday 4, 18, 25. We've been asked to read the set list. Climate Pledge Arena. The. The. The. I call it the. The Pledge. That's what we call it now.
- [21:38]
RJ
That's really. Is this a thing or did you just make this up?
- [21:41]
Megan
I just made that up.
- [21:42]
Brian
No, it's the name of brain.
- [21:43]
RJ
They're gonna have to. Hey, hey, hey.
- [21:45]
Brian
Immediately effing Shout out to Seattle. This used to be where the Sonics played until they were cruelly ripped away from the city of Seattle and sold off to Oklahoma City, which, you know, the Thunder, God bless him. One of my favorite NBA teams. Nobody's up against more in terms of shitty location and not a ton of money and brings more of a consistent winner. You should take note. Chicago Bulls you guys are the most pathetic franchise in the entire NBA.
- [22:16]
RJ
But anyway, named him.
- [22:18]
Brian
They moved them in 2008.
- [22:20]
Megan
They did not show. But then Brian had to put a sports analogy in. Before we get started. It was like we. We were missing that one piece of our.
- [22:30]
Brian
Well, I just. I just. It's important for people to know. This used to be the key arena. This is a. An arena that has been standing for like 50 years now. And when Seattle got awarded a hockey team two or three years ago, they could have done what every city does and been like, cool. We need $1.2 billion from our taxpayers to build the gigantic stadium that none of you can afford to go to. And instead they. They. As I understand it, all the work in the arena is to make it the most like climate policy arena in America. And it's the same arena. So taxpayers weren't billed for this. It's the exact same arena in downtown. It's a great spot. And it's now where the Kraken play. And whenever they bring the son, hopefully in the next five years, they will play there too. And thankfully, thankfully, Fish is playing there too.
- [23:22]
Megan
Okay, so Fish did play there twice this weekend, as I was saying. And what they played on Friday was Sand Ka Falls theme into Back on the Train. If I could tube Maul Wolfman's. I'm just going to read the whole both sets and then we'll talk about it. Set two was blaze on into golden age. Into what's going through your mind. I always wanted it this way. Into Ghost. Encore Bug into Possum. All right, Brian, you start. Give me. Give me a couple takes on this and like, give me a highlight or two and some takes.
- [23:53]
RJ
Did you guys like how Brian and I both just started dancing? That was not planned.
- [23:57]
Megan
Yeah.
- [23:57]
RJ
What's going through your mind?
- [23:58]
Brian
Really good song you were dancing to. What's going through your mind? I was dancing to a song I made up in my head called five song set. It was a little bit of a rhythmic bop. I was pretty excited as he was reading that off. I thought the show ruled. I thought this was an extremely strong opener. I'd put this up with the opener we got in Seattle two years ago when they kicked off the tour. And we had an amazing wave of hope and golden age. What else I would put this up there with? I guess I'm blanking a little bit on great tour openers. We've had solid ones in the last couple of years. But, like, this was you. You expect the tour opener to be kind of like A slow, you know, incline. And this was just from the start. Sand. Great opener. I didn't really care that it opened Mexico as well. And here, like, it's just. It's a solid opener. Went immediately into a nice little Bliss jam. Kill Devil Falls has been super reliable the last couple of years. Great stuff there. Some interesting stuff by Trey at the end of Theme. And then Back on the Train gave us the First True Type 2 Jam of the tour. I have this just behind the 12:30:09 version in terms of most impressive Jammy Back on the Trains that we've ever heard. And then the remainder of the first set is four great songs in a row that you'd want to hear with a little bit of mustard on each. I thought they sounded fresh. I thought they sounded locked in. I thought the Back of the Train was kind of one of those first hints that you were talking about rj. In terms of. Dave Goldstein, my good friend and beyond the Pond co host, was talking about how he thought that they had been listening to Devo. There was like a Devo riff in the Back on the Train, which I'm here for. Any band trying to reinterpret the early 80s pop soundscape, really cool, dark version. This was a great, solid set that when it ended, I was like, bam, we're back, we're back. It feels really good.
- [26:11]
RJ
Yeah. I love this first set. I think this whole show has excellent flow, but even the first set does two really great set listing. And anytime you're going to do a big jam followed by if I Could in the first set, you're going to make me very happy. I just think each of these choices is really thoughtful and I think the. There was something about the pacing of this show and the. What was interesting to me is that Trey was. And this is kind of a spoiler for how I feel about the rest of the show, but Trey was leading all the jams towards Bliss Peaks and just trilling everything, getting right up there, wanting to get up there right away. And, you know, I don't know why he was into that, but he was into it. It was working. It was really fun. It was really exciting. And it was definitely noticeable, though, like, even in the first set, everything that kind of jammed eventually led to, like, a big Bliss peak and just Trey going off. And that's fun. So I think in the first set they did a nice job with that, but this is definitely one of the better first sets that they've played in a while.
- [27:15]
Megan
Yeah, I mean, I think the Back on the Train jam had that, you know, sort of like this spacey, ambient space. And then Trey, like, landed on a pretty cool rift toward the end over pages since. And that. That, to me is like a. That was like a, what, two or three minute segment there that I think that you heard throughout the weekend in different contexts. That's like the part that I think they kept kind of building on. I mean, a Kill Devil Falls, like, peak that was like, you know, listening to that the next morning, like, that's crazy. You know, Huge emotion. Huge emotion at the very beginning of a. Of an opener is. Is pretty wild. Yeah. I mean, it just felt like that back on the train jam felt really patient. Even though I agree that Trey was like, really out front on all of it. I thought it was really great. I don't know. They're.
- [28:07]
Brian
They're.
- [28:08]
Megan
They're definitely. I was wondering how much of the acoustic tour stuff, you know, is. Is. Is part of Trey just like playing a lot of guitar all the time because he has to, because there's nothing else he can do on those tours. So, like, I wonder how much of that is pushing him out front in a way that maybe he wouldn't otherwise be.
- [28:27]
RJ
Yeah. And he always seems kind of hungry to get on the electric guitar after these tours.
- [28:33]
Brian
I think. I think it's a astute point. I think. Shermouth says, as we has been discussed, he played his 90s Marmar guitar for the first time in a long time. I think first time since Mexico 2019 was what I had seen. It sounded good, like, really rich. That trace tone that we love from the 90s. I think the acoustic tour, you're absolutely right. Like, if there's any large theme I heard sonically throughout the weekend, it was fully fleshed out. Tray riffs that built upon themselves to peaks. Every one of these jams has a big peak, even the ones that get a little dark and weird. I think other than a wave of hope, I don't think that that really has as much of like a jammy peak. But the of them have this, like, we'll get to it. But, like, the plasma peak was. Holy shit. The Signal Aces peak. Like, by the end of the weekend, he was just able to bring this up to like, the hose peak, you know, Glory. Is that the most interesting cerebral type of fish? No, but, like, I think when he can do that and the band can then latch onto some additional soundscapes afterwards, like we got, especially in the second set of this show, that's where that kind of like, new, you know, Scratching and clawing, trying to figure out where this band can go. That aspect happens. But one thing I was thinking just to, you know, continue this larger conversation in the context of this. This show and this. This weekend. A lot of this felt effectless, like he wasn't utilizing his effects in any sort of way. This was, like, kind of the cleanest jamming that I feel like we've heard from them since fall 2013. Like, it really reminded me of a lot of those j that just build on Trey riffs. And it's Trey and Paige back and forth, and Fishman's kind of going crazy behind them. And it allows for, like, a much more clean, democratic approach rather than these weird soundscapes. I don't know if you guys heard that in any sort of way throughout this weekend.
- [30:44]
RJ
Yeah, definitely. I think that the tray being out front was the most noticeable thing to me about the jamming. Definitely. And I think that Mike being able to. Mike and Fishman. I mean, I think Fishman sounded insane this weekend. There was just moments that he sounded so fast and so in the pocket. It was just, like, unbelievable. But I think that Trey sounded like he was driving the ship in a way that. That worked. I think it sounded really great.
- [31:12]
Megan
Yeah, I think he. He was using that weird effect that I don't really like that much that is described in the Fish Jam charts as throaty. I don't like, you know, like, that deep kind of sound that. I just don't really like that effect. I think he used that in, like, the. Maybe in the back, maybe in the golden age, there was, like, a section where he was using that. But I. But I think in general, you're right. And I. To me, the effects. And maybe that's partially why I'm, like, drawn to these. These jams is Pages synths are like, what really shines through those jams.
- [31:45]
Brian
Yeah.
- [31:46]
RJ
They make them interesting.
- [31:47]
Megan
Yeah. Because there's not as much of a focus on, like, Trey's effects. It's really, like. So the other effects mics and pages can kind of shine through more.
- [31:57]
RJ
Yeah. Well, it's like whenever they're just building towards one peak where a bunch of little peaks or a bunch of big peaks, I should say it depends on the other guys to kind of add intrigue. Right. And that's like, what Paige and I think all of them are doing that. But, you know, fishermen kind of holding it down. But then you could hear Mike and Paige kind of, like, dancing around it and adding things to make it interesting, because otherwise it just sounds Like a bliss peak.
- [32:22]
Brian
It makes sense to me that they're going with this approach. When you think about the last couple of years that. Especially when you think back to 21 and 22, you know, these new effects Trey gets match perfectly with the synthesizers. Pages feeling like playing. And suddenly it sounds like we have two keyboardists on stage. But Trey also kind of sounds like a bass guitar that's gone insane. And where's Mike going to go? And I think for a while there, like, it felt like Mike was in the mix a little bit more and a little bit more of a supportive role. And over the last couple of years, we've definitely heard him kind of reemerge and take back some leadership in jams. And there were a lot of moments throughout the weekend where either he or Trey would start a riff. And because Trey sounds like a guitarist again and Mike has added some. If there's anyone that's added effects, it's Mike right now. And Paige's synthesizers don't really contrast with what Mike's doing. They complement it really nicely. You now get this kind of back and forth playing between Mike and Trey speaks to. You know, that was the never vary exercise that they did before 1229. Is that what it was called? Than like distorting a riff, which happened all the time in 2021 and 2022. You'd hear a riff and then you'd hear Trey add an effect. And suddenly it would be. You know, it's like it started as this like, beautiful melody and it would just be all weird now it's almost like they're trying to string out that melody as far as they can go, but, like, have the two of them work back and forth together. I found that really interesting. And it makes sense because, like, you add all these effects now you start to take them away. What's left? Like, how do. That's how you go forward.
- [34:14]
RJ
Yeah, I think sometimes it did make some of the jam sound searching to me. And a little like you were saying earlier, Brian, like, less cerebral. Like, there was definitely moments when I felt like we were just kind of forward moving and kind of floating along somewhere. Not floating. That's not the right word. Kind of like on the train tracks, just like going. And you have to kind of. It's the kind of sometimes jamming that doesn't stop you in your tracks. And it's almost easy to underestimate how hard it is to do that and to do it well. But there were sometimes in these jams that I felt like less they were Less interesting in moments because they weren't going off into deep space.
- [34:56]
Brian
And to that, getting back to the show, like I found the most interesting part of this show to be the last five minutes of Golden Age. Like that's my show.
- [35:04]
RJ
Exactly, exactly.
- [35:06]
Brian
The other side of the. Of the peak. Weird sounds back and forth some space. And then jumping ahead, two shows. Like I loved the Sigma Oasis on last night in Portland. And I think if you're in the room, that had to be just like a peak white light type of thing. But. But I felt like when I was listening to Sigma, this is a weird critique to make, but hey, whatever, roll with me. You knew where it was going. There was no mystery. It was just the band's locked in and they're going to drive this to a peak and it's going to be very well earned and that's awesome. But the second set has this wave of hope that is a little bit weird. Similar to the Golden Age. Sounds like new sounds like you get this, this kind of like back and forth where they can play these Bliss Peak jams almost in their sleep right now and they sound great. That I think has a little bit of a shorter shelf life than the weird stuff for like, you know, return playing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just kind of like, you know what I'm noticing?
- [36:13]
RJ
Yeah. And the end of those jams, like the Golden Age, the Wave of Hope, those were my favorite parts of those jams. And so like the Wave of Hope, I just wanted to keep going. The last four minutes of that jam are super interesting. Super interesting. And I do like how they find twists. Whatever. I'm jumping ahead. But I do feel like they would get to the weird stuff and they wouldn't stay there. It's interesting.
- [36:36]
Megan
Interesting. Okay. Yeah, we will get there. Brian, do you want to talk about the Golden Age or anything else in the first show?
- [36:45]
Brian
I mean, I love a five song second set. I thought the five song second set set listing worked incredibly. I love having legit segues and no real breaks in a set. I thought that the first night of the tour and we have like a no notes second set. Like, you know, we can nitpick moments here but like I got zero complaints about song selection. I think that the flow was on. I think there was like energy where there needed to be energy. Brought it down when I need to be brought down. The segue out of I always wanted it this way. Into Ghost was really impressive. What's going through your mind? Figuring out Is it the song. Is it like the down with disease type of song that like kicks off the second set and sets the tone? Or can it also be like a light that it's the second jam vehicle that comes and builds off of the previous one? It's so interesting how, like, that's a long song with a lot to get through and I don't ever want to rush the song part. And I can't say that about every jam vehicle. Yeah, awesome stuff, man. For a second set that has a three show gap, a one show gap, a one show gap, an eight show gap, and a four show gap. Like, these are all songs, like, to your point, Meg, we've been hearing over and over and over again. I got no complaints about hearing them over and over again when they, when they're played like this.
- [38:08]
RJ
Yeah, that moment when the golden age, it's just so cool. They're in that, like, spacey, weird spot. And then Trey finds the riff for what's going through your mind. And I was just laughing to myself like, this guy cannot wait to play this song. Like, I thought for sure he tried to at least wait till like the second show, but he's like, nope. I found my favorite song, guys. Here it is. It's coming out. It just cracked me up. I was like, this song, it rules. It's so obviously inspiring to them and it's so fun. And I loved that jam too. I thought it was so great. And then the ghost too just completely thrashes. Like, that peak is tremendous. This second set is what I want every second set to be. Like, it was great.
- [38:48]
Megan
Pretty much the, the, like the trilling that he was doing at the end of the what's going through your mind jam is really cool. Like, it's not. It's not. It's just a different way of building a peak as opposed to just like, you know, going straight for the. Going straight for it. It's really cool.
- [39:08]
Brian
Okay, sorry.
- [39:09]
Megan
Yeah, go ahead.
- [39:10]
Brian
Sorry, sorry. I found. I found Fishman's drumming. That was like the first moment where I really realized it throughout the weekend, but I thought it repeated itself in the plasma and the Sigma Oasis two nights later. He's not like, adding to Trey's builds during a peak. He's. He's doing less and so it's creating more space and it puts way more power behind what he's doing from a drumming standpoint. You definitely hear this during the plasma, but I definitely felt it towards the peak if I always wanted it this way. And just that that type of Stuff. If we're looking for something new, it's going to come with, like, are they doing the same thing or a different thing when they find themselves in a similar moment of musical build.
- [39:59]
RJ
Yeah, like, less. That's interesting. That idea of, like, using the other side of the pencil more.
- [40:04]
Brian
Yeah. Ooh, ooh. The rubber side. Let's go.
- [40:09]
Megan
We are so Saturday night, they played again in Seattle. All right, you guys ready to hear what they played?
- [40:18]
RJ
Yeah.
- [40:19]
Brian
I love that you have fully. I know.
- [40:21]
RJ
I love this. I thought we were each gonna get a turn to read the set list.
- [40:24]
Megan
Nope. Not today. Not today. Maybe. Maybe next time.
- [40:27]
Brian
Can I just ask you, how many times do you think they walk on stage and Trey looks to. Everyone goes, mind, mind, mind. And Paige. Maybe we'll get to it. Yeah, we'll see.
- [40:42]
RJ
Maybe.
- [40:43]
Megan
First set opens with free bathtub gin. Evolve. Stash, Pebbles and marbles. Farmhouse. Susie into walls of the cave. Set twos. Chalk dust into light into chalk dust into fuego into monsters. Piper into backwards down the number line. And the encore is Sleeping Monkey, My friend. My friend. Okay, guys, I. I guess the. I want to talk about the second set, but, Brian, do you have anything to say about the first set?
- [41:10]
Brian
I have two things. Gin was great. That's not my thing, but it was great.
- [41:18]
Megan
That was another thing where the. The weird. The weird at the end was, like, very. You know, it was. It was a. I think a little piece of what kind of got Built More out on Sunday.
- [41:31]
Brian
I would agree. I mean, there's been this trend since the last couple years where bathtub gin goes nearly 20 minutes in, like, the second or third slot of the show. No need to stop doing that. That's awesome. Just. Yeah, like, this is taking the 14 minute early set one bathtub gin, and just stretching it out further. Come on. We're all here for it. What are we cutting out, like, my soul. Do it, please. Yeah. I thought this was the best evolve that's ever been played. We got everything out of it. The whole emotion that comes with that song came through in Trey's solo. It was big. It was meaty. It reminded me in some ways of the totally different type of song, but, like, same approach to the Albany 2018 show of Life, where it's just like, we're going to do the song, but we're going to stretch it out three minutes longer than it typically is. And so you are going to get more emotion for what this song means. Last thing about set one, and then I promise I will move on. Actually, I have Two more things now that I realize it. First one's really quick. Walls of the cave in in the same set for the first time ever. Come on. Like, as a 2.0 kid, this is it. But Susie Greenberg, 38 show gap. Can you guess this is the hold?
- [42:52]
RJ
No.
- [42:53]
Brian
This is the third longest gap in its history. Can you guess the first two longest gaps in Susie's history?
- [43:03]
RJ
No.
- [43:04]
Megan
No.
- [43:05]
Brian
You don't even try.
- [43:07]
Megan
No.
- [43:08]
RJ
No. I'm not gonna know.
- [43:10]
Brian
Okay.
- [43:11]
RJ
From March, one of them was in 2.0.
- [43:14]
Brian
No, from March 18, 1997 to 1129. 1997 was 49 shows. Yeah, right. And then from 112997 to 8, 6, 98, 43 shows, and then this. The last time it was played before last night was 7, 19, 2024. So we went all of 2024, basically, without hearing a Susie Greenberg. It's pretty wild. Anyway, let's move on to set two. RJ has thoughts.
- [43:46]
Megan
Well, no, I. I just think that's where the, you know, the interesting stuff happens, in my opinion.
- [43:52]
RJ
I won't. I won't add what I have to say about set one. Then I'll just.
- [43:54]
Megan
Oh, please do. Please, please do, please. I. Is it. Is it?
- [43:58]
RJ
I actually don't know.
- [43:59]
Megan
Is it about to evolve? The evolve is really good.
- [44:02]
RJ
It's not, but it's a little. That I was a little bit bored during the gin jam. I'm just gonna say that.
- [44:07]
Megan
Thank you for adding that.
- [44:09]
RJ
Just like, the trajectory of the jam just was kind of like, I don't know, I just didn't find it super interesting. But. And I also have another complaint because apparently that's what I am now doing. There's a fair amount of flubs during Pebbles and Marbles and Stash. Like, just a fair amount. And that's fine.
- [44:27]
Brian
Yeah, totally.
- [44:29]
RJ
But the first set was fun. I also loved the evolve, and I think there's some really good moments in that set. It's a fun first set.
- [44:37]
Brian
Those can be a really fun flub conversation in the next show. But I want to just be clear. I don't think this bathtub is life changing. I am just here for 20 minute song to set 100.
- [44:51]
RJ
Yeah, I'm never gonna complain about a jam in the first set. Just like that. To me, that, like, commitment to first set jamming in this run is something I want to applaud deeply. I'm here for that. Yes. Continue to jam in the first set. It makes everybody happy.
- [45:05]
Megan
Yeah, it's totally fine. Totally fine. Bathtub Jin. Yeah, I think The. So there's a point in the light. I mean, the. So I. I feel like the effects are being a little bit more used in this set than. Than they were the night before, especially in the light, when, like, halfway through, Trey's kind of, like, around with the effects, but the tempo slowed down, and it's. It's really, really cool. And then it kind of builds to, like, a. A peak that doesn't feel. It feels, like, kind of mellow, but also it. It works. I think there's, like. There's a lot going on there. But I do think, Brian, to your point about effects, I feel like in. In Choctaws in the beginning of the jam, and then in Light there, he's using. Using more of it, but then, like, going. Going back to, like, build toward a peak, which I think is a cool way of utilizing them, you know?
- [45:58]
Brian
Yeah. This isn't like the chalk dust set to opener from 42223 Hollywood bowl that gets into weird, weird atonal space. This is very different from that. This is not the light from last year at the Sphere, which is kind of jazzy and a little weird. These are jams that have atonal moments. But I think, to Megan's point earlier, the goal seems to be the celebratory peak, because that. At least for these three shows. That said, I thought the Choctaw light flowed really nicely. You know, it's kind of one of those, like, I get this with movies. I get this with books. Like, you read so much. You watch so much that sometimes your life trickles into watching it because you're, like, trying to read something because you're trying to, like, carve out time for it. And so you read something and you wonder, like, is this really good? Or am I just not feeling it? Or am I feeling it and it's really good? Or am I feeling it and it's not very good? Like, there's just so much, like, coming at you at all times. And I think, like, at sometimes, like, you just have to stop asking yourself the question. And if you're enjoying it, you just enjoy it. And I just. I really liked what chalk dust and light both did, even though I don't think. I don't think the chalk dust, like, is in the upper echelon of recent chalk dust, the light might. Might be. There were really cool moments in the light where it just felt rhythmically like the band was communicating back and forth, which is kind of what I was talking about with, like, the fall 2013 comps, like, where the band Just feels like they're listening to each other really well within a jam. But I have these in tier one of my jam list for 2025. I don't know if they will stay there depending on how the year goes. Like, I could see this section dropping down if we get like an onslaught of huge jams on the level of, you know, Dick's Last Year or Mexico Last Year or Spring Tour 2023.
- [48:08]
RJ
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that the. The Choctaws I really liked. It was really melodic and pretty right away. Had that searching quality, but didn't feel frustrating and just the peak was so emotional. I think he's nailing Emotion this weekend just so strongly and kind of a weird segue into Light. But I loved that growly tone that Trey takes at the very end of Light when he's going back. Shocked us. That part is so cool. I love that. And I think that for Fuego and Piper, they both got somewhere really interesting. But then Trey pulled out of both of them. But I think they both were in really cool spaces before he left them.
- [48:46]
Brian
Is that we're calling it now. He didn't ripcord. He left them.
- [48:49]
RJ
He left them.
- [48:51]
Megan
Yeah. The Light. That's kind of. That's what I was saying about that one part where. It's where he. Trey is like, on the effects pretty heavily. But then. But the band is all like, really there with them. It just, you know, when they can. When they shift the tempos and are still communicating, you know, and pushing through to that. To that. And in the end, the growling stuff is great. It's really cool. Yeah.
- [49:16]
RJ
And I really loved the ending to the show. Like, the. I think it's such a cool way to walk off the stage, to play My Friend, My Friend like that and end with that, like, really weird cool shit and then just, like, walk off the stage. This is the first time that it's been the last song ever played in an encore. Like, it's been in an encore before, but Sweet Adeline was after it in 93. But this is so cool that they just played it and just walked off. I love that. That's like my favorite thing when they do that.
- [49:45]
Brian
That speaks to something that if we're going to talk about, like, new things, I think that we are still experiencing with Fish. And I wonder if this is going to happen after this tour with Get Back on the Train, where a song like My Friend, My Friend Was always My Friend, My Friend had a couple very cool versions, but was always My Friend. My Friend you knew what you were getting when they started playing it.
- [50:09]
RJ
Oh, yeah.
- [50:10]
Brian
And then something changed a couple years ago and it has now become a legitimate jam vehicle. And they have played multiple near 20 minute versions that are show highlights and huge moments within the show. A lot of them happened last summer. RJ raved for weeks about the Alpine. My Friend, My Friend. The version from MSG was very good. And it's a thing that happens when the band discovers that they can jam a new song. We've seen it happen with Choctaws for the last 12 years. You know, they go through this experience of we can do whatever we want to this song, so it can be played anywhere. So you have a song like My Friend, My Friend that has never been in this particular slot before and couldn't just be My Friend, My Friend and close out. It had to do something more. And here it does something more. It's just, it's. It's a very cool rediscovery of the catalog and continue to push that forward, even if the sounds aren't so different from what they were a couple years ago.
- [51:16]
RJ
Yeah, I like thinking about that. That's kind of the direction of the evolution in a way.
- [51:21]
Brian
Shout out here to Damwig. When they played Gin, moma and Light, I was definitely thinking about Rushmore conversations. I definitely texted you guys during Luck and said, do we have to redo this episode? I felt the same. We haven't done Sigma yet. That's. That's coming up soon. And I was like, oh, crap. Like, I. I have to ask you guys. And we should have this conversation right here in this very, very quick hit that's crossing 50 minutes. This would be like the third longest.
- [51:51]
Megan
Multiple shows. It's multiple shows.
- [51:56]
Brian
If. If there is a standout version of a. Of a Rushmore Fish song played this year, do. Do we have like a time frame? Like two years has to go by, a year has to go by. Not the same calendar year. Or can we add.
- [52:15]
Megan
Nope.
- [52:16]
Brian
You say add it.
- [52:17]
Megan
Yeah, it can all be added. Anything within. After. After one hour can be added.
- [52:22]
RJ
One hour.
- [52:23]
Brian
After one hour. You guys heard here first. As long as we haven't done the episode. If you've done the episode, it locks. And then we'd have to revisit a later date if we wanted to.
- [52:34]
RJ
But it isn't like 32 content. Like when fish releases big Cypress, we'll release, you know, Mount Rushmore episode two of everything season two.
- [52:46]
Megan
I just want to say, for those of you who are out there on your commute or Otherwise, watching the clock, we're. We're just about to move on to night three, and we're averaging 25 minutes per show, which is pretty fast, to be honest.
- [52:58]
Brian
I. I just want to add that, like 23 minutes of that is a esoteric question. RJ asked that. Like, who. Who did you think you were asking that to? Like, we don't give one word answers.
- [53:12]
Megan
I mean, it's not. I'm not complaining. I'm the one who asked it. I'm. I'm trying. I don't know if you guys know, but I'm like trying to get thought provoking conversations started on this podcast.
- [53:22]
RJ
We're probably averaging like 15 minutes per show.
- [53:25]
Megan
Yeah. Without our. All of our nonsense. Okay. So proud of us.
- [53:31]
Brian
Like a football game. Like, you cut out all the timeouts and the reference stoppage and like, it's actually like five minutes of game time, but, you know.
- [53:38]
Megan
Exactly. Okay. So one thing I just want to say is that there's There's a really. There's a little segment of the end of Fuego, like this ambient kind of spacey piece that segues into the. The new. The new about to Run Monsters, which I think is good. I like. I really like that song. Trey absolutely rips. It's the most that he ripped the entire weekend was on Monsters. And you guys can continue to deny it and ignore it if you want, but, like, that's where you're saying me. I'm saying you guys broadly as like the fish. The fish audience. And Brian.
- [54:13]
RJ
And Brian, I thought. But. But you. The only one bad part about that song is when Trey just sing, like, screams at the end in my head. Like that part. I don't know. But I love the song. I think it's a good song.
- [54:28]
Megan
Okay. Night three.
- [54:30]
Brian
I'm totally fine with any song segueing into Monsters if a song would segue into Monsters. Okay. The issue I have is that there are multip examples now of really, really in depth wild jams that are going places. They sound like they do, and then everything gets ripped back and all you hear is that watery and like, oh, cool. We're in, like the 1987 Dower album released from your previous favorite lead singer who has gone solo and is like recording in like a shadow with a blue light for the MTV music video. Like, come on.
- [55:12]
RJ
Wait, but you don't like this song too? It's not just the segues or the jam. Rip chords. You don't like the song too?
- [55:16]
Brian
I don't like the song, but I would like it. I would like it more if it wasn't ripping us out of a jam space for it. Like, I think that there's a nice way to do. Just requires, like, 30 seconds more patience, you guys.
- [55:31]
Megan
You know, you guys talk a lot about, like, these jams are going places and they're not. Have you ever thought about just, like, where they're going is where they go. You know, just embrace where they go. They're going where they're gonna go.
- [55:42]
RJ
We have places we want them to go, rj. We have ideas that's gonna.
- [55:46]
Megan
You know what's gonna happen.
- [55:48]
Brian
It's a really good point because, like, the purpose of a podcast is just to be like, this thing that I am analyzing is good.
- [56:00]
Megan
Let's talk about. No, let's do. Really do our greatest wishes.
- [56:05]
RJ
Whatever he wants. I'm just. So. Our Trey wishes in the audience, and that's.
- [56:09]
Megan
I think we should hope. Hi. Let's. Let's head to our Trey hopes. I hope. I hope Trey jams tweezer tonight or whenever they play.
- [56:17]
Brian
I'm just excited to turn on my, like, you know, dozen of political podcasts and have them be like, things are. Things are just. They're. They're happening. So, you know, it must be good.
- [56:28]
RJ
Exactly.
- [56:29]
Brian
Really.
- [56:30]
Megan
But it was the whole point.
- [56:31]
Brian
The whole reason I tune into you is to just be like, it's good. Good. Yeah.
- [56:35]
Megan
Yeah. Well, that's. Thank you for saying that. I made a good point, because that's. That's what I did. All right, so we got Sunday Night Portland. We got 46 days. Momo danced into cities, Plasma bouncing around the room. Sigma Oasis Run like an antelope into Santos. It's set to a wave of hope in a twist into Sense, into Everything's Right, into Boogie on into 2001, into life beyond the Dream, into Harryhood. And the encore was Wilson into Slave. So I guess, like I said at the beginning and you've. You said this to Megan, I think, like, the. This is to me where the sound all came together. I think the. The wave of hope is the. Is the most interesting jam of the run. I think the Sigma Oasis is too. But I started. I think I listened to. As you guys do. Like, we listen to so much fish that like. Like, it's just. We listen to a lot. And so sometimes. Sometimes these things just, you know, they just. They just go and then they're over, and then you're on to the next song, and you don't really notice the times past. Like you were saying earlier, Brian and this plasma, like the. There's a part in Plasma, which was basically the first time of the run that I would, like, stopped and was like, wait, what's happening here? And I don't know, I think that's like just the picking up the. The. The first two nights, but adding to it and making it a little bit more cohesive in terms of that, like, spacey, weird sound. And then they continued throughout the show, like the Plasma, the Wave of Hope, and I don't know. And the Sigma Oasis. I thought they were all amazing, amazing moments. But I really want to talk about the Wave of Hope, but we'll. Let's get to that later because that's in set two. But what do you get? What were you. What do you guys think about set one? What are. What are your specifics?
- [58:27]
RJ
Yeah, I think it opens super strong. I think 46 days. Opening the show just growly, spacey right away. Like a willingness to stretch out. That's always what I want to hear. Like, how often are song openers sound like that and you've got the MoMA in slot 2. But I thought this plasma. Plasma Jams are often some of my favorites because it just starts off in such a cool, moody place. But this one, like you said, rj is really interesting. It's patient, watery, really lovely, and then just these totally insane peaks and the crowd is just going crazy. And, you know, they haven't played in Portland in what, 26 years or something? So, like, this is exciting. And you just think of all those people that haven't been able to see fish in their hometown, and they're there playing there, and you can feel that energy, which is just so exciting. The Sigma is awesome. It's so forward moving. Mike sounds amazing. I love the way that Trey is continuing to soar, but Mike is just hanging so in the pocket and he just is laying it down. He sounds so good. And then again, a wild, crazy peak. It is kind of the same formula, but it's played so well that it's working.
- [59:36]
Megan
Yeah. And I think. I guess the part that I really liked was before that build to the peak, where it's sort of like three or four minutes where they're just kind of in that space. And it was, you know, like the synths with minimal effects from Trey and just like a. A. A slower kind of patient build that. That I thought sounded pretty different. And then the peak is. Is great too, but also just the beginning of the song is just. It's a good, like, they should take that listen to that. And then go and think about how to, like, redo the intro to Kill Devil Falls. Just like, listen to the way plasma starts and then, like, do something more like that.
- [60:11]
Brian
Did I tell you I thought about that?
- [60:13]
RJ
No way.
- [60:15]
Brian
The eggy song, Trixieville. You know that song?
- [60:19]
RJ
Yeah, yeah.
- [60:21]
Brian
That is Kill Devil Falls with a much better intro.
- [60:25]
RJ
Yeah, that's true.
- [60:26]
Brian
You get, like, the bar, the bar room piano. And then the riff when it comes in, you're prepared for it because, like, this tension has been built and you're like, oh, oh, what's Donnie doing on the piano? Oh, my God. Alex is building it. And here comes the riff and you're like, oh, rules so hard. That's my feeling. That is not what happens with Kill Devil Falls. Like, Kill Devil Falls, start this, like, very abrasive jar. Wait, wait, wait. It's like a cat, you know? And then. And then, like. And it's awesome.
- [61:00]
Megan
Okay. All right. Get back to plasma, though. Brian, what do you got on it?
- [61:07]
Brian
Plasma has been utilized in some really cool ways over the last couple of years. I'm totally here for it. I think this was another one of those ways it was utilized really well. 7, 28, 23, sphere. And then 8, 3, 24. Coming off of the Chalk Dust torture. There's probably another one that I'm blanking on, but I thought this was up there with some of the best versions of late. Look, we know what RJ thinks about 46 days. I'm here for the song. And I think that similar to. I think it was Dick's night two or night three that they opened up with 46 days and went into like an 1112 minute jam like this. And it's just like a great little palate cleanser for the remainder of the show.
- [61:52]
RJ
Wasn't The Monda Green one good, too? The 46 at Mondegreen was good, too, right? I feel like that was good, too.
- [61:59]
Brian
I mean, I think you might be just talking yourself into Monda Green stuff being good.
- [62:02]
Megan
I think. I think you're right. I think it was good.
- [62:05]
RJ
I think it was good.
- [62:06]
Brian
Was it?
- [62:07]
RJ
Yeah, I think it was kind of good. It wasn't a. I think it was.
- [62:10]
Brian
Kind of really putting me on the spot here. Let me just. Let me just check. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This was in the first set. It was solid. Yeah, yeah, it was great. It was solid. But I thought, like, MoMA in its second slot cities felt, in a sense, like it was being ripcorded for plasma to a degree. And then it just made up for it. Really great version. This was the most deranged bouncing around the room that has ever been played. I know RJ is going to give me shit offline for bringing up bouncing around the room in a quick. This. This version has to be heard, to believe, to be believed. I just don't think. I think Trey, you know when you have just like. You should know this fact and your brain just goes like. You have a total brain fart. You just like can't remember anything like that. You could see it on his face. He was just like, I don't know how to play this song right now. Like, what the. It's not in the room. Like, why. Why do I not know how to play this song?
- [63:05]
Megan
It seemed like he was trying to play. He. Like he was trying to play the wedge or something. Yeah, he didn't really, like, know what he was doing.
- [63:14]
Brian
That's it. Like, it was like he didn't know where the riffs went. He didn't know what he was supposed to sing. And so he just kind of started like playing. It was really amusing. Not in like a sloppy do these guys have it together type of way, but it was like you just played this amazing plasma. You're about to play this amazing Sigma Oasis and you cannot play the simplest three minute song that you've written.
- [63:38]
RJ
But to be fair, they never play that song very often anymore. But yeah, I think it's. It's hilarious.
- [63:46]
Megan
Okay. I think that the. As I've said, maybe this is the third time, but I'll say it again. I think the wave of the hope that opens a second set is the. Is the coolest jam that's happened on this tour possibly this year. I don't really remember Mexico, but this the way that. Okay, so they. Megan, to your earlier point about the kind of the. The rush or not rush, but just like the reliance on the peak jet. The peaks. So like this wave of hope. There's. It's eight, 18, 19 minutes. The first like five or six minutes are like building toward, you know, kind of a typical bliss peak. They're in that, like, major key and then somewhere like halfway up, like up the mountain of the peak, they just kind of change directions. And then the next like eight or nine minutes is just like. It doesn't stop, it doesn't slow down, but it. Paige is doing this really like, just. He's all over the place with these different scents that Ryan can tell us what they are, but. But they build this tension for like seven or eight minutes. That's not Like a build toward a peak, really. It's just like being in that weird space but in it for a really long time and. And it like, it concludes. It's like a very thrilling experience. I. I listened to it a couple times and I'm like, I think this is. This is exactly what maybe we all want from fish jams, which is just like a little bit of a different journey to the end. But they kind of abandoned the climb up the mountain halfway through and then just go in this different direction. But it. But it doesn't like fizzle out or dissolve like a lot of those kind of jams do. It just keeps building, but in a totally different way. I think it's amazing.
- [65:29]
Brian
I agree completely. I don't. Well, let me put my. A slight fish criticism hat on because I think that this is. I think you're absolutely right. This is the most unique sounding jam of the weekend. This is the point where it felt like the riffing that Trey has been doing, these like, clean, full, well thought out riffs combined with weird sonic energy that led to a slightly different structure and approach happens. But I think when that happens, I have it in tier two for me because it needed that additional four to five minutes of resolution to be the best gym of the weekend. In my mind, I think it felt. It was a nice fade into twist. Many people can put the argument in that. Sure. You got what you. What you. You know, you got what they gave you and then they moved on fine. I felt like it needed something a little bit more to be the best jam I've heard of the. But I think it was certainly in the conversation.
- [66:40]
Megan
Can I just add one more thing, Megan, before you jump in? The only thing I want to say is that there the. The end, the last three minutes or so where they. The way. The reason I like described it as thrilling. It's. It's like a piper jam from 2.0 for like three minutes where it just. Trey is like on the. He's chord. You know, he's on the chords. He's not really like pushing the solo, but it's super high tempo and. And really dark and really like kind of pulsing. It's really. I don't know, maybe I missed like 20 other jams where that exact same thing happens, but I thought it was pretty remarkable.
- [67:17]
Brian
I. I have it there with the Mexico Piper where that gets into. It's. It's funny you mentioned Piper because it definitely feels like a Piper jam where it's just like is going. And is it going to just Be high octane energy or is it going to have these weird diversions? And it reminds me of the Mexico Piper reminds me of the Mexico Fuego, where it just gets into this kind of dissonant space that you weren't hearing in a lot of the jamming this weekend. Really, really amazing stuff that I will probably be revisiting a dozen or more times before Summer tour.
- [67:47]
RJ
Yeah, I want to listen to this one a bunch more. I loved it. This is definitely one of my favorite jams of the weekend. The End that you're talking about. RJ has like a really anxious feel to it. And it sounds like Fishman's playing drum and bass. Like he's playing so fast and so tight and it's really fucking cool what he's doing. Like he's such the MVP of this jam for me. But it sounds like a video game, Like a soundtrack to a video game. It's just really layered and textured and cool and yeah, I love it. It's so great. And I love how the Twist starts. These are playing the twist chords, but with the effects that they have on in the Wave of Hope jam. And it is killer. But I'm going to listen back and see how I feel about what you're saying, Brian, about the resolution. Because I've only listened to this jam like 1 1/2 times. I listened to the end of it again because just last night, west coast show work all day. But I definitely am interested to see if. If that affects my listening. But I loved it on first listen.
- [68:44]
Megan
And so the. The kind of end of the third quarter into the end of the fourth quarter was a little rough, I thought. But Brian, do you want to talk about the Sense as a. As a 2.0 kid, as the. As you call yourself?
- [68:59]
Brian
A lot of love for 2.0 this weekend. You gotta. You gotta just appreciate. I mean, they didn't play Seattle or Portland at all during 2.0. So they're like, hey, you guys, remember we put out Round Room? Really good album. The Sense felt like the kind of culmination of everything we've talked about. With lack of effects and full melodic ideas from Trey. The. The end of that is just. It's like a hood jam almost, you know, and it's interesting because since when it originated before the Camden. Before the Deer Creek and Camden versions. The early versions sound like a mid set one. It just builds to a beautiful, blissful peak. And this modulates. But it definitely has that sort of vibe to it, I thought. And this is becoming a bit Of a trend. And I am upset less and less about it in recent years because it's becoming so much of a reliable trend. You get to Sunday night, and it's no longer the, like, all killer, no filler show. It's the last hours. Trey being like, I want to just show you guys how much I appreciate that you're all here. And that used to really me, but now you just kind of know it's coming. Like, sense goes into everything's right, which is. Which segues directly into boogie on, which is kind of a mess, like bouncing and goes into 2001. Cool, fun lights, everyone. Let's throw the really last clothes sticks that we have into a life beyond the dream into hood. Like, we're just like. We're not even in, like, set narrative construction here. We're just playing songs. Cool. Yeah, let's do it. Whatever, man. Let's just have fun, you know?
- [70:43]
Megan
Yeah.
- [70:44]
RJ
Yeah. It's okay. I think that spot for 2001 is, like, starting to really bother me.
- [70:52]
Megan
Yeah. It's not. It's. It's not. It's now. It is.
- [70:55]
Brian
It's been there for, like, 20 years.
- [70:56]
RJ
I know, but I just, like, now it's like, they can do better. Like, they can.
- [71:01]
Brian
They have. You're absolutely right. They can. I think Friday night.
- [71:05]
RJ
Friday night, they did.
- [71:07]
Brian
Well, that's the thing is, if we're going to give Friday night, Saturday night, and most of Sunday night for interesting set listing, some meaningful diversions, some interesting jams. I mean, I threw seven jams onto my overall list, which is the exact amount I had for. For Mexico. Like, one show less. And you know that the same amount of jams. There's a lot happening. We'll give Trey one quarter of the show to.
- [71:35]
Megan
Yeah.
- [71:35]
Brian
Do his thing.
- [71:36]
RJ
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, I think their commitment to jamming. First set. Jamming is alive and well. I'm here for it. It was really great. The. The Friday night show kind of blew me away.
- [71:48]
Megan
Yeah. Okay, so what. What's the. What's the show? Would you both go back to. To Friday first?
- [71:59]
Brian
I would.
- [72:00]
RJ
For full show, for sure. I agree that some of the best jamming was on Sunday, But I think that the Friday night show is, as a complete show, pretty perfect.
- [72:12]
Megan
This is. So. So go ahead, Brian.
- [72:15]
Brian
I was just gonna say, out of. We've had seven shows this year so far. Out of those, I would say Friday night 418 and night one of Mexico 129 are the two most complete shows that we've heard so far.
- [72:29]
RJ
Both Openers. That's so fascinating.
- [72:31]
Brian
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
- [72:33]
Megan
I would. I would take Sunday over Friday because I think the jams are interesting enough to even make that 20 or 30 minutes of the second set, which is kind of just unbelievable. I think it makes up for it.
- [72:50]
RJ
I can see that. Yeah.
- [72:51]
Megan
I mean, I feel like it's like someone's like, dude, it's a Sunday show. What should we play? And then it's like, just do the opposite.
- [72:59]
RJ
There are. There are five jams in Sunday's show, too. Like, five bigger jams. That's a lot of jams.
- [73:06]
Megan
It is. Well.
- [73:07]
Brian
And it's. It brings up an interesting discussion. I think we've had it here before, but, like, if you just flipped this show around and you started with Hood, A Life beyond the Dream, 2001 Boogie on Everything's Right, Sense Twist, A Wave of Hope to end, and then the second set worked the way that it did. Like, like, if you flip this around, I think it is that, like, Sunday shocker.
- [73:32]
Megan
Yeah.
- [73:33]
Brian
Because if you have those jams in there, it will build more.
- [73:36]
RJ
Yeah.
- [73:37]
Brian
There is always this thing of, like, when fish starts to show hot, you're just at this level that you want them to maintain, and that's really hard to do. And some nights they have, like, there. There are certain shows. Seven, 1598 is not one of them, but, like, seven, 1798 is one of them two nights later. Where you mean this high level.
- [74:00]
Megan
You mean my first choice in the west coast draft?
- [74:03]
Brian
I do, yes.
- [74:06]
RJ
Well, some of us can't put just all 4.0 shows in our west coast draft. Some of us like to have, like, diversity that spans, like, decades and eras. But that's cool that. That you wanted to do that.
- [74:16]
Megan
I like that. The airing of grievances. I think that means that we've reached the end. A couple people reached out and said that we. That the Rushmore voting page for no Men and no Man's Land, which is next week, was not correct. And that was right because I changed the redirect on the draft link instead of the Rushmore link. So now everything points to the Mount Rushmore no Man in no Man's Land voting page. So go to osirispot.com rushmore and put in your votes for no Men and no Man's next. That's where we're going next.
- [74:52]
Brian
I just. I just have to correct you slightly so we don't confuse our listeners who are just as busy and on their commutes as ours. Our next episode is the full spring Tour recap.
- [75:03]
Megan
Yeah, then I just thought that was. I thought that was.
- [75:06]
Brian
I know you're.
- [75:07]
Megan
I thought that was.
- [75:08]
Brian
You're just trying to get us so many episodes so quickly on multiple podcasts, and we just. We just got to slow you down for one second. Okay?
- [75:17]
RJ
Listen to all these fish shows. Read all these books. Keep up with me, please, Please.
- [75:22]
Megan
My whole life is a lot of.
- [75:23]
RJ
The books, and Brian started to sweat.
- [75:25]
Megan
My whole life is. Is creating content. That's all I do.
- [75:28]
RJ
We know. We know. It's amazing.
- [75:30]
Megan
I can't help it. It's cool.
- [75:33]
Brian
RJ's new nickname is let's read this short story that actually is a novel.
- [75:39]
RJ
And let's read it in, like, two days.
- [75:41]
Megan
It's an unwieldy nickname, but I'll take it.
- [75:44]
Brian
I bet RJ read this book, this. This short short story collection like a year and a half ago and was like, yeah, we should just do it now and, like, read this novel over, like, a really relaxing summer weekend on the beach.
- [75:58]
RJ
So true.
- [75:59]
Megan
I'm not apologizing. Done apologizing, man.
- [76:03]
RJ
Yeah.
- [76:05]
Megan
All right. Okay, so next. Next week, we'll be back to recap all the rest of the shows. We don't know when that's happening, but it's happening sometime next week.
- [76:14]
Brian
Are you ready to do your Mount Rushmore no man and no Man's Land tomorrow?
- [76:18]
Megan
Yeah, sure. Let's do right now. Let's do it now. All right. Okay. So in the meantime, make sure you guys vote. Vote at go to osirespot.com rushmore but we have, what, five more shows to cover that.
- [76:37]
Brian
We have two nights in Seattle and three nights at the Hollywood Bowl.
- [76:42]
Megan
San Francisco or San Francisco.
- [76:43]
Brian
Excuse me. Yeah. First time at Bill Graham since 20.
- [76:49]
Megan
Whenever I went. No, 20. We went in. Oh, yeah. Was that. Oh, I was thinking it was after the Pandemic, but it wasn't.
- [76:59]
Brian
Yeah, because they did Shoreline. Oh, and then Chase Center.
- [77:04]
RJ
Yeah.
- [77:05]
Brian
Did they. I don't think they went to San Francisco in 22 and 23. They skipped it. Wow. This is the first 2018.
- [77:14]
Megan
I love that. They were not. They were not well rated. This especially the second night. But I had. I had a great time. What a don't place to see a show.
- [77:24]
Brian
Don't sleep on the set yourself. Free from night two.
- [77:26]
Megan
Yeah.
- [77:27]
Brian
That is one of my favorite jams from that year. But, yeah, Bill Graham, we've gotten 12, 13, 14, 16, and 18. Great, great runs in there. Jealous of every single person who's going to be in that room.
- [77:42]
Megan
Yeah, it's going to be really cool.
- [77:43]
RJ
No. So jealous.
- [77:45]
Megan
Maybe they'll do another Runaway Gym jam. Cause I think the last, like, two runs, they've had a really good Runaway Gym jam. It's a good. It's a really good place for a runaway Gym jam that set your soul free. Brad and I were not. We were unintentionally dancing like robots to that set yourself free because it was just. It was like this. I would Melting space.
- [78:04]
RJ
Oh, ye. That's so awesome.
- [78:07]
Brian
I think it's, like the second version. I think it's the second version of set your soul free and it's. It's. Whenever we get to that Mount Rushmore, it is a dead giveaway. It's on the Mount Rushmore. Sorry.
- [78:22]
Megan
Yeah. Well, okay. So we'll be back next week to talk about, you know, all kinds of stuff, more shows and VT to boot. Thank you for. For the shout out and for bringing Jason Bogdan, who I met for the first time on Saturday night, who's been listening to the show forever, PT to boot. Got him to come, and it's nice to. Nice to see you there, and thank you. So it was fun. It was a fun weekend. We have many more fun weekends to come, but first, we have more fish shows, so we will. I guess we'll see you guys early. Probably early next week. I think that's it. Anything else, guys?
- [78:57]
RJ
No. See you then.
- [78:59]
Megan
All right.
- [79:00]
Brian
We're ready to tackle more fish shows and debate new sounds, new style, new approach. Not new. Does it need to be new? I can't wait to get there, guys. It's gonna be awesome.
- [79:12]
Megan
Yeah, wait, I can't wait. It's gonna be so great. Okay, bye, everybody.
- [80:09]
Brian
Osiris. Hey, what's up, you guys?
- [80:16]
Megan
This is Reed Mathis. I made a podcast called the gifts of improvising. Let's come. The gifts of improvising.
- [80:22]
Brian
That's coming out on Osiris. We talked to all your favorite improvisers. Natalie Crestman, Marco Benevento, Tom Hamilton, Aaron Magner, Holly Bowling, Bill Kreutzman, and Jay Lane.
- [80:32]
Megan
So what, you're doing a podcast? Yeah, doing a podcast.
- [80:36]
RJ
So don't fear if you hear a foreign sound to your ear.
- [80:44]
Megan
We need the gifts of improvising.
- [80:51]
D
This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician, and host of Rearranged, an Osiris media podcast about music arranging. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. We're not just talking about adding orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings or Doing a cover version of a song arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all acoustic, even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase. It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use arrangements to answer some big questions like what is a song and what can a song become? And how can the sound of a song change the meaning you take from it? Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to Rearranged and maybe it'll happen for you too. Learn more@rerangedpodcast.com Osiris.