Top 25 Tours — #2 — Fall 1997

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod) – Episode: Top 25 Tours #2 – Fall 1997
Release Date: December 13, 2024
Host/Author: Osiris Media

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Introduction

In the second installment of HFPod's "Top 25 Tours" series, hosts Megan, Brian, and RJ delve deep into Phish's Fall 1997 tour, a period they proudly rank as the number two tour of all time. This episode, released on December 13, 2024, offers an engaging exploration of the tour's musical prowess, unmatched energy, and the unique experiences that solidified its legendary status among Phish fans.

Tour Ranking and Initial Reactions

The episode kicks off with a lighthearted exchange among the hosts, celebrating their draft win for ranking the Fall 1997 tour as the second-best Phish tour. Megan humorously remarks, “[02:04]...I'm definitely ready to up just like fish in '97,” highlighting the excitement surrounding the discussion.

Vibes and Energy of the Fall 1997 Tour

RJ emphasizes the unparalleled vibe of the tour, stating at [10:17], “If we're talking about Vibes, then this is number one.” He describes the tour as Phish at their peak, where every night exuded an electric environment devoid of gimmicks, purely driven by the band's dynamic performance and the audience's enthusiastic engagement.

Megan adds her perspective, “[11:20]...there was something about bringing that energy into the indoor space of a fall tour and just this feeling of a band peaking for the second time, but also innovating while they're doing it.” She appreciates the tour's efficiency and narrative flow, noting the absence of filler, which kept each show tight and engaging.

Detailed Breakdown of Specific Shows and Jams

The hosts delve into specific shows that epitomize the tour's excellence:

1. Rochester Show ([93:59] - [95:53]):
   Megan praises the Rochester show as “[69:16]...probably one of the best shows, and it should be released.” She highlights its perfect narrative arc, seamless segues, and standout jams like “Roses Are Free” and “Ghost,” which exemplify the tour's sophisticated musicality.

2. Hampton Night One ([94:22] - [94:32]):
   Brian lauds “Hampton Night One” as “[94:22]...the best set of the tour,” appreciating the set's fluidity and the seamless transitions between songs like “Hydrogen We Pug” and “Train Song.”

3. Hartford Show ([74:37] - [81:05]):
   Brian discusses the Hartford show, noting its impressive setlists and jams such as “Isabella Tweezer” and “Reba,” which showcase Phish's ability to blend different musical styles effortlessly.

4. Denver Show ([44:30] - [48:00]):
   RJ shares his experience of the Denver show, emphasizing the powerful segues from “Ghost” into high-energy jams. Megan echoes the sentiment, describing the show as “[44:30]...just buckle up and let them take you on a perfect ride.”

Analysis of Jams and Musical Flow

A significant portion of the episode focuses on analyzing the tour's intricate jams and setlist constructions:

• “Ghost” and “ACDC Bag” ([34:07] - [44:33]):
  Megan identifies key jams that define the tour's sound, including “Hampden Bag,” “Denver Ghost,” and “Worcester Gym,” praising their depth and creativity. Brian adds that the segues between these jams demonstrate Phish's mastery in maintaining high energy levels without losing musical coherence.

• “Wolfman's Brother” Controversy ([64:01] - [72:46]):
  The hosts discuss the polarizing jam “Wolfman's Brother,” with Megan defending its artistic risk and organic flow. Brian acknowledges its experimental nature, likening Trey’s guitar solos to basketball legends like Kobe, highlighting the technical prowess and audience trust Phish enjoys.

• Set Two Dynamics ([57:29] - [73:34]):
  Megan and Brian explore the complexities of set two in various shows, noting how Phish balances intense, high-energy jams with delicate, ambient sections. This balance creates a dynamic and captivating musical journey for the audience.

Audience and Fan Interactions

HFPod engages with its listeners through voicemails and kudos:

• Voicemail from Justin ([02:46] - [03:27]):
  Justin shares his passion for the Fall 1997 tour, detailing his experience at the Vegas opener and praising jams like “The Stash” and “Casting.” His enthusiasm underscores the tour's lasting impact on fans.

• Kudos Exchange ([03:27] - [05:39]):
  The hosts exchange kudos for creating drafts and compiling lists, fostering a sense of community and collaborative appreciation for Phish's music.

Setlists and Narrative Arcs

The conversation delves into the strategic construction of setlists that offer both variety and thematic coherence:

• Fluid Transitions:
  The hosts commend Phish's ability to transition seamlessly between varied musical styles, creating narrative arcs that enhance each show’s storytelling aspect.

• Balanced Structure:
  Megan highlights the balance Phish maintains between high-energy jams and melodic, contemplative pieces, ensuring each show remains compelling from start to finish.

Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

Both RJ and Megan share personal anecdotes that enrich the discussion:

• RJ's Memories ([87:53] - [88:04]):
  RJ recounts driving back from a show at midnight, feeling exhilarated and accomplished, reflecting the tour's ability to create lasting, cherished memories.

• Megan's Reflections ([88:04] - [88:35]):
  Megan connects her college experiences with attending Phish shows, emphasizing the band's role in shaping memorable life moments for fans.

Conclusion and Future Plans

As the episode wraps up, the hosts discuss upcoming plans and future content:

• Upcoming Drafts ([98:33] - [99:00]):
  They tease the next episode in the series, which will rank the top tour, promising an in-depth analysis of what makes that tour surpass Fall 1997.

• Future Events and Podcasts ([98:55] - [101:03]):
  Megan announces a happy hour event at MSG, encouraging listeners to join and celebrate, while RJ and Brian promote their other podcasts, fostering further engagement with the HFPod community.

• Final Reflections ([93:59] - [99:58]):
  The hosts express gratitude to their listeners, reflecting on the tour's significance and their excitement for future discussions.

Notable Quotes

• RJ on Vibes:
  “[10:17] If we're talking about Vibes, then this is number one.”

• Megan on Setlist Flow:
  “[11:20]...there's such flow in these shows. I don't think there's any tour that we've listened to that every show seems to have this level of flow.”

• Brian on Best Sets:
  “[94:32] Hampton, Night one,” and “[81:05]...set two is [of] the tour.”

• Megan on Artistic Risk:
  “[65:51]...the willingness to float somewhere and stay there and exist in a musical space is so... that is very risky.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Helping Friendly Podcast provides an exhaustive and passionate examination of Phish's Fall 1997 tour, showcasing why it remains a beloved and highly esteemed period in the band's history. Through detailed analyses, personal anecdotes, and interactive listener engagement, Megan, Brian, and RJ paint a vivid picture of the tour's brilliance, setting the stage for an eagerly anticipated discussion of the number one tour in their forthcoming episode.

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Brian]

He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[Megan]

Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn.

[RJ]

You'Ll be able to reach people who do.

[Megan]

Get a hundred dollars credit on your next ad campaign.

[RJ]

Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply.

[Justin]

LinkedIn.

[Megan]

The place to be, to be Osiris.

[RJ]

All right, guys, we're live again. Brian, Megan, are you feeling the swagger? Are you feeling it today?

[Megan]

Yeah, absolutely. I got a meeting canceled to be here. I'm definitely ready to up just like fish in 97.

[Brian]

Come on, just give us a speech. Just let's get it over with, for Christ's sakes.

[RJ]

All right, we're gonna get into it. We're in. We're at. We're at tour number two or two right now. We are at number two ranked.

[Brian]

Hold on, hold on. We can't get into this right yet. We.

[Megan]

We.

[Brian]

She needs a speech to accept her win and.

[RJ]

No, there's no here.

[Megan]

Oh, we're talking about gracious.

[Brian]

No, no gracious.

[Megan]

Wow.

[RJ]

How about a Megan?

[Brian]

How about you can accept losses here? I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm a Democrat to. To the heart. I accept lost.

[RJ]

Let's get the kudos via voicemail. How's that?

[Megan]

All right. Is this a voicemail saying how you should have Won. Because I still need evidence of that.

[RJ]

It's kudos. It's kudos. Ready?

[Megan]

I'm ready. I think.

[RJ]

Oh.

[Justin]

Oh, my fellow HF Pod Fish fans.

[RJ]

My name is Brian.

[Justin]

I'm a huge fan of you guys. You guys are great. And I just want to pose one question for you. Who's the nerdier of the Fish fan? Those who create a draft for the longest jam or those who listen to the people who created the draft for the longest jam?

[Brian]

Best jam?

[Justin]

I would say the latter.

[RJ]

Anyway, love you guys.

[Megan]

Keep it up.

[Brian]

Bye.

[Megan]

Oh, my God, that is so awesome.

[RJ]

We do Kudos. Kudos to Brian.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Brian]

Kudos accepted. Yes.

[Megan]

For creating the draft. So nerdy.

[RJ]

You know what, Brian? Maybe this specific draft was actually my idea, but. But the draft in general was your idea. So Brian and I basically. I think we'll accept all these kudos from everyone and we'll move on. Great.

[Megan]

So. So, rj. So you created a draft. I'm sorry, Both of you created a thing that you both created that I won. That's so fucking cool. Wow.

[RJ]

Yeah. So a lot of people, A lot of people have a lot of questions about how the votes were kind of. I'm just saying what I've heard out there. A lot of people are saying.

[Megan]

I would love to see that evidence. I would love to see that evidence.

[Brian]

Hey, look, if you get the 914.99 ACDC bag, you win automatically. I don't. I don't know what to say.

[Megan]

Right. Only had that, I would not win.

[Brian]

I don't think. I mean, you're not winning with the 1230, 19 tweezer again. What? What else did you pick? I just gotta pull this out. Hold on, hold on. I gotta pull this back open here. Now that we're talking about it.

[Megan]

Just because you guys don't like.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah, the overrated ghost from Atlanta. The set your soul free from San Francisco. Which is great. Don't get me wrong. Which is great. But it's a very strange pick in the 25, 26 minute rang. The 103195 yam. Come on, come on. The jam that is bringing you over the top is 91499 ACDC bag. We all know this.

[Megan]

It's okay. I'm not gonna lie about that. I drafted it first for a reason.

[Brian]

You did?

[Megan]

I drafted it first for a reason. But I will say that, you know, heartless. I'm not gonna win. If I had a whipping post, I'm gonna say that. If I had a whipping post, I'm Not a friend. I don't think I would have won. Not a friend.

[Brian]

Oh, my God. Low ball. Did I pick the Providence Bowie first, like I should have? Because I'm a friend, you know?

[Megan]

So our losers, all of you, thank you to everyone who voted for me. You guys know I have the best list, and it's okay, guys. I'm sure you'll win the next draft.

[RJ]

No, I know. Yeah, I mean, I think. Appreciate it. Thank you for, Megan, for conducting your own survey with your own audience and determining that you won. I mean, it's really. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.

[Megan]

Listen, if I wasn't doing all of this unpaid labor, running the HF POD socials, I wouldn't have to put my own stuff out there.

[RJ]

That's true. Good point. Good point.

[Megan]

Evie did. Oh, wait, Justin. Bruce. Here we go.

[RJ]

Yeah, there we go.

[Brian]

Justin. Justin knows this. We're not. We're in a thread with Ryan Storm. And. Yeah, yeah, it's sometimes easy to get under my skin and. And you get the full Brinkman where. Where it's. It's. It's undercuts and. And facts and just an assault of. Of logical arguments against you. But I want to ask you guys, and I'd love to pose a question to the audience as well, was it the 385 whipping posts that did me in, or was it the three 2003 jams? Because we all know that you all hate 2003 fish.

[Megan]

We'll find out. Why don't I put a poll out for that?

[RJ]

Let's do another poll.

[Megan]

Let's do another poll.

[RJ]

All right.

[Brian]

If we've Learned anything from 2024, it's that more polls will give us more answers and will help us win. Right?

[Megan]

No.

[Brian]

I do just want to say, before we get into the business at hand, because we have a lot to cover here today, we're talking about a very, very big tour in fish history. We're going to draft. We are going to do a draft. One of our first episodes of 2025 will be a draft. And I'll just give you all the preview now because it's gonna be fun. We're not going to do a traditional 2024 recap. We are going to do a 2024 shows draft. We've got it all organized already. Waiting on the MSG shows to throw them in there because nobody knows if they're going to play on the 28th, 29th, 30th, and 31st like usual. But once those are posted, Once we have those, we will compile the draft. We'll even send it out to you all, make your own personal drafts so that we can all work on this as a community. And we're going to decide on what the best shows are from 2024, knowing full well that Monda Green is its own category, which means three Monda Green shows have to be selected in the draft.

[Megan]

Oh, wow.

[RJ]

All right.

[Megan]

I'm excited about that. Wait, before we get into it, rj, can we talk about our happy hour that we're having?

[RJ]

Yes, please.

[Megan]

Yeah. Are you guys gonna be mean to me for this whole episode? Like, is this actually gonna end okay?

[RJ]

Oh, nothing. No one's being mean. Everyone's being surprised.

[Brian]

It's fine.

[Megan]

I thought this was the Helping Friendly podcast.

[Brian]

I mean, you got your favorite tour ever in number two, so, you know, you just. You should be happy about that. And you won the draft. All right. It doesn't matter what we do.

[Megan]

Just so you know, I did draft the number one tour, so this is my favorite tour number two, but I did draft another tour above it. And I thought that would win me some points with you guys for a while, but apparently, short lived. Short lived. Bonuses over here. I'm going to tell everybody about a happy hour that we are having on the 29th. So night two at MSG, RJ and I, we're going to. We're going to be at the Moynihan train station at the bar there, the Irish exit, and we're going to be hanging out. So come hang out with us before the show. Come pregame with us. I think there'll be some other Osiris family there too.

[RJ]

Yep, yep, it's gonna be fun. It's the only show I'm going to, so better come and hang while we. While you can. Next week. Week from today, we're going to be. I'm going to be in Northampton, Massachusetts, at a reprise show. Anyone who's in the area should come hang out there. The tickets are going fast, which is awesome. But, you know, if you can join us, join us. Also, we are going to be doing another episode of our library card podcast next week. Tuesday, right? Tuesday, Yes.

[Megan]

I can't wait. It's a more friendly environment.

[RJ]

We'll see. We'll see. Yeah, we're gonna be. We're gonna be talking about Bee Sting one. It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna have so much fun. So join us, like on the Internet somewhere and subscribe to that podcast if you haven't already, because that's how stuff works.

[Megan]

Yeah. And tell people about it who like to read, because it's a really awesome book podcast, if you like nerds.

[RJ]

Okay, so here. We're here to talk about the number two ranked tour of all time, according to us. The number one ranked tour of all time, according to fans. So we got. We're here. You know, we all know what's happening here. I guess. Before we get into the themes of the tour, I guess. Can I just say. Can I just say a couple things about this tour from my perspective and then. And then you can say more than a couple. Okay.

[Megan]

Yeah, please.

[RJ]

If we're talking about Vibes, then this is number one. No doubt. There's no doubt. There's never been a higher vibe tour. This is Vibe tour number one. I think, personally, this is Fish at their peak powers of having the audience the most enraptured. It's hard to explain the energy that we're in these shows, but, like, I went to deer Creek on August 11, and the next show I saw was Champagne. And it was like an electric environment, something I'd never experienced at a. At a concert before. And there were no. Not a lot of, like, gimmicks or gags. It was just, like. It was just electric every night. And I mean, it was just so. So I think if you're, like, ranking on vibes, which now we're a vibe podcast after last week, maybe. Maybe the lowest percentage of, like, off shows of any of the tours we've talked about, but just. I mean, it's really the. It was just so sky high. Every single night is just amazing. So that's where I start when I think about this tour. Megan, what. What do you. What do you got?

[Megan]

Yeah, it's interesting because I didn't see any of these shows. I saw some shows in the summer tour, and then I saw the MSG run at the end of the year, and I felt like I missed out because I think there was something about bringing that energy into the indoor space of a fall tour and just this feeling of a band peaking for the second time, but also innovating while they're doing it and kind of looking for what's next. And that's what really surprised me when I listened back to this tour. I always think when you think about the story, you just think you're like, it's the Funk Jam tour. That's what it is. But when you listen back to it, you realize there's so much going on, and it's just a part of what's going on in this tour. And that really, really stood out to me. And I think when I think about what is also, I think similar to what you're saying is that there's no fat on this tour. Like, these shows are short, they're well edited. They're, like, really played efficiently. And I think it's kind of like what we want Fish to do now. I think this is, like, the gold standard. You want Fish to come out and play, like, a couple tent pole monster jams and just play really tight around that. And all of their sets have this, like, narrative arc to them, and there's just such flow in these shows. It's. I don't think there's any tour that we've listened to that every show seems to have this level of flow. There was just an ability to move between ideas that is just. It's. It's phenomenal. And so many just legendary jams. It's crazy.

[Brian]

Oh, everywhere.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's. It's so crazy.

[RJ]

Brian, Vibe Vibe tour number one. Do you agree?

[Brian]

Yeah. I mean, everyone thinks that this is the best ever for a reason. I was. I was probably still drinking out of a sippy cup at this point in time. RJ. I don't know. I was 12 years old during this tour, so I wasn't allowed to go to any fall 97 tours. My parents weren't like, yeah, just hop in a rabbit and go down to champagne, why don't you? In the middle of. Right around the holidays. Are you kidding me? No. But when I first got into Fish, I got into Fish through tapes from, like, 94, 95, and then, like, 99, 2000. And that was just what people were giving to me. And pretty much every person I talked to as I was getting into the band would always say, like, just wait till you hear fall 97, dude. The funk, the jams, everywhere. And the first fall 97 show I heard was 12, 6. 97. And I remember just thinking I was listening to a completely different band. I remember when the official Live fish release for 111797 came out. And, like, you look at that compared to, like, live fish number seven, which is from August 93. And, like, you look at the back and you look at the song list, and you're just like, this is a complete. These are two different bands. This is one band that is like, here's an idea, and then here's an idea, and here's an idea, and then there's another band that's just like, let's just play the song. For this, like, for a long period of time. And just see where it goes. And I see it here. Evie dude is posting peak of set listing, set, set construction. That's my first, like, note about this tour. And like, the. I think it fits with the vibes. This is the best show structure in the history of the band.

[RJ]

You.

[Brian]

You look at any of these shows, like, just pull up, you know, Hampton night one, Worcester night one, McNichols night two, the Nutter center, you know, which doesn't. It isn't like as cond, but like, it's. These are. These are shows where like from a set listing standpoint, you set a narrative arc, you know, that's a perfect way to put it. There's stuff in odd places that adds, like, it elevates it being where it's. Where it's placed at within the show structure. You start to see timestamps and you're like, oh my God, they played that song for that long. What the hell's going on? But I think also, as we get into this, this is a month that is mainly spent at the band's home turf. And this is going to align this tour with late fall 95 and with December 99. Two other tours that are on our list, one of which we haven't talked about yet. The fact that the band is in the northeast and just like kind of circling the northeast for a three and a half, four week stretch of time while playing at this level just elevates it to a completely different point. Rj, you obviously think this is the vibes tour, but can you just describe, like, you started seeing them in 95, you saw them, I'm guessing, in fall of 96. Like, as someone like yourself who'd been collecting tapes, who had been seeing shows, what was it like to hear this band just so fully connected on a show by show basis?

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I got to see five shows this tour. So it was. I mean, it was incredible. It was incredible. It was. It was not like, I wasn't worried about, I think summer 97. I was more like there were songs I wanted to hear, there were things I wanted to happen. I had maybe coincidentally also given up on that when Fish gave up on that. So it was sort of like it just. We were just. Everyone was just there to party, you know, and that to me was what it was, you know, and every night was just. I mean, champagne was so fun. Everything was so fun. Every night was just so fun. So I think that's it. It was just fun, like the whole Thing was just so fun. That's all I have. That's all I got, I think.

[Megan]

Well, I think there's something interesting. And we were talking a little bit about this offline, but. And maybe it's lame to talk about, but the music really met the moment in a way that is really singular. I was thinking a lot about the Grateful Dead and the Acid Test, and I do think that there's a way that the music really met a lot of what was going on in the party scene at this moment. And I think in a way that kind of enhanced the music and also made it just so vibey. And I think that that's something that, like, is maybe lame to talk about, but also really a big part of what was happening in 97, because so many of the people in the audience were partying the same way. And so there was definitely, like, the music meeting the moment and the music changing because of that, and people hearing the music a certain way because of that.

[RJ]

Yeah. Do we need to know anything, Megan?

[Megan]

I mean, I think we kind of know what's happening, right? We know that they're coming back to the US and I mean, the two tours before this are on this top 25 list. So you know that. That it's. This is like, you know, this is the second peak. But this is a 21 shows in this tour start out west. They hit Illinois, which is a weird routing thing, but glad for you, rj. Then they go down to the Southeast, the Northwest, and then, like Brian said, they're back to the Midwest, and then they end in upstate New York, and they're there for. For a while. And there are 121 jam chart entries and 21 shows. We are at 5.76 jams per show, crushing any other tour. Like, nobody's gotten over low fours, like, and not even close. So this is really the highest jam per show tour of any that we've talked about. And you hear it when you listen to it.

[RJ]

Hell of a ratio.

[Brian]

We've talked about, like, great jammy tours of late. Like, the top 10 have been filled with great jammy tours, but there's nothing like this.

[Megan]

Nothing.

[Brian]

There's just nothing. Like, my list for 21 shows is what my list was like for fall 94.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Brian]

You know what I mean? It's just like.

[Megan]

Yeah, and they're jamming everywhere, right? They're jamming in the first set. They're jamming, like, second song. First song. They don't care. They will jam. And it's. It's Kind of like, yeah, I feel like when I was listening to it, I was like, this is what everybody wants to see at every show. It's really. It's really the gold standard. It is.

[Brian]

You said, well, it can't be the gold standard because we got one more.

[Megan]

Ahead of it, the silver standard.

[Brian]

Should we talk at all about, like, why this is here and have that internal debate since we just had the who won the draft Internal debate?

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan]

I mean, there's no debate for that.

[RJ]

You guys go ahead because.

[Brian]

So I think. And don't. Don't take my word for it. I'm just a noob who's never seen any good shows. I see all in the comments. I've never seen any good shows. You've all seen better shows than me. I celebrate you all. I'm sorry that my parents didn't sleep together five, six years earlier. I just couldn't do it, you know, I couldn't go to these shows. I think that this tour, for a long time in my brain, has had the argument of being the best tour that they've ever played. I think that there's a reason why Undermine did an entire season on fall 1987 on every single show. And someone, I don't know, someone out there put together A list of 25 shows that lead up to that and give you the context of why it is. Because context is essential. But you know, those shows, this whole tour is filled with shows that are just like, from one night to another, like, it feels like the best show of a week or the best show of a tour happened and then happened again and then happened again and again and again. I think my argument for this being here. We'll talk a little bit more about next week when we do our number one tour. But this tour required a previous peak to get here. This is the Reinvention tour. This is the band saying, we've reached this level. What do we do next? And we've talked about this a lot because 97, we've included three out of the four tours from this year. They did a Winter, a Summer Europe, Summer Night, Summer Us, and then this. So we've talked a lot about this year and I think we've talked a lot about that experimentation and that reinvention is so, so critical for the longevity of the band. But from my perspective, they. This tour only happens if you've already peaked as a band. And if you've already said, and I'm going to make this case later, this is like, this is the Octun, baby. To the Joshua Tree. This is the Kid A to okay, computer. This is a band. This is sergeant Peppers to Rubber Soul Revolver. This is a band that has already reached the mountaintop and already has accomplished everything you ever could accomplish and then says, what's next? And we're so lucky that it only took two years to get something of this level that I think you could make a very, very clear cut. Argum, everything that we've said thus far about show structure, jams, Segways, the vibes, whatever it is, that this is the best tour of all time. But I do think you have to acknowledge the fact that you had to get here via another peak. So I'll yield the floor to my jaded vets here.

[Megan]

I think you said it perfectly. I think that was my rationale when we were drafting and I had the first pick and I picked fall 95. I think that a band has to discover greatness to be great. And so fall 95 is them discovering greatness and stepping into that. And this is a tour where they already had the audience and 95, they had to kind of get it. And I just think that when you're growing an audience and you take risks like they do in fall 95, it is so badass and just so unbelievable of a band to do that. Where in 97, like, RJ, I think what you were saying at the beginning about, like, the crowd being so enraptured because we were sold. Like, everybody in those are, like, arenas. In 95, we were there, or 97, like, we knew what we wanted. We were there for Fish. And like you were saying, Brian, we're very lucky that they were reinventing themselves, but we would have been there anyway, and that's because of fall 95. So I think that it's the same argument. I agree. What do you think, rj?

[Brian]

I love rj, is just sitting here calmly, just, like, stroking his chin, just like, I kill these guys.

[RJ]

It's fine. I mean, first of all, Octoon Baby fucking rules. And it's. It's 100%.

[Brian]

That's why I made the argument.

[RJ]

Yeah. Periods of reinvention or rediscovery are, I think, as important as. As the initial discoveries in. In most cases. But this is a band. That's the. The argument for this being the number one tour, which I think we've Both. We've all acknowledged, is that this is a band that's purely. It's like they're soaring. It's like it. There's no. There's no dips. There's no dive. There's no ebbs and flows. It's just fucking full flight the entire time. And I think that if you look at summer 97, I think there's, you know, some interesting points of Summer 97. We talked about it at length. I thought Summer 97 was like kind of up and down, but then ending at the great One with this, like, amazing last show especially was. That was like the start of. Of what we hear in this tour. I think it's like there's. It's not just funk, right? There's this, like. There's. They're starting to like, cycle through these jam ideas that are. But they're so grounded and they're so, like, established. There's no real. There's not a lot of experimentation. I think would be probably the main criticism of this tour if you were to. If you were to get down on that level, right? Like, I don't think they're really figuring stuff out on the fly. I think they've already kind of figured everything out and it's just. It's working through it in a way that is fun and easy, but also like, that. That is clearly connecting with the audience. So I think if you're like. If you're looking for just like electric energy and unstoppable, you know, actually fish destroying America, it's like, very apt. This is. This is it. But I think the. The one knock you could. You could have is that there's not a lot of, like, breaking new ground. I think they're a lot of the. The peak jams of this tour are. Are kind of like re. Reworking old approaches, but. But in slightly different ways. But I don't think there's a lot of new ground. So I guess that's the one criticism. But I just think it's. Man, the energy is just outrageous. It's just, It's. It's just unmatched.

[Megan]

Can I ask you a question about Brian? Go ahead and then I'll ask a question after.

[RJ]

Well, I just.

[Brian]

I was. I was going to agree with that. The one thing I would add is I. I hear a lot of that. There's a lot of. And listening to this in the context of the overall series, there's a lot more Trey arrogance at the top of this tour than I recall hearing. And maybe it was just like my headspace when I was listening to it. But what I love about this tour is that it does evolve so that towards the end it's a bit weirder and there's a bit More of that experimentation. But I think you're absolutely right, rj. This is a band that is no longer necessarily trying to become the best band in the world. They kind of just know that they are, and then they take the stage every night. Like, you heard it in Trey's interview in Bittersweet Motel at Rochester, where he says most tours were promoting an album. And this tour, there's no album promotion, so we're not written up in Rolling Stone. Nobody really knows we're on tour. And we're having the best tour in years. There's that, like, there's still this underground, cultish thing to the left side of the country that nobody else is really paying attention to. And they're playing at this personal level that they don't necessarily have to try and search for something as much as they just go on stage and say, let's play this weird Rolling Stones cover. Oh, here it is. 17 minutes later. We're in this crazy, dripping funk zone. So go ahead, Meg.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think that. That both of what you're saying is kind of leading to my question that I was thinking about when I was listening to this tour. And, rj, I love that the word soaring, because I feel like that's really what it feels like. And so I've always thought. And I really thought it when I was listening back to this, that this Fish destroys America isn't really, like, the language that I think it is. Like, when I think of them destroying, I think of, like, them coming out with, like, this fall 95, or, like, even, like, 93, 94, when they're just so crazy and energetic and, like, hungry. This is more like fish, like, owns America or fish captivates America or fish, like, dominates America. It's a different vibe to me than, like, coming out and, like, chewing up the scenery and, like, destroying something. It's more of, like, a. I don't know. It feels to me that there's kind of just a. Yeah. Like a soaring. Like, we have this. This. We can just do whatever we want. And I think that speaks to that arrogance. There's. There's such a. An effortless feeling to all of it. And they're so willing to just get completely lost. And I think that's something that. That I kind of forgot about when I was listening to this. But it just made me think that this isn't like the Hungry Tour. It's like the. It's like the Decadence Tour.

[Brian]

It's like third term fdr.

[Megan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian]

We just. We know we're gonna we're gonna win this war. We've rebuilt the nation. This shit is gonna go off in like 10 years. And it's all because of me. And I'm breaking with precedent and I'm running a third term and. Get the fuck out of here, Lindbergh, you psychopath. You know. Yeah, this is very much like, we. We know that. We know where the.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's also a lot of space in these jams. There's a lot of, like, you know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of diversity in the sound, I think, which is maybe what a couple of people in the comments were saying that there was. There is, like, There's. There's diversity. But I. I think in terms of like, pure experimentation on stage, you don't hear as much of that. But, but, but there's. There's like. They're comfortable. You know, it's. It was very. It was very comfortable from the start. I mean, just from that first show in Vegas. It just is like. It's just. They're. They're comfortable on stage, you know, it's crazy.

[Brian]

That first show is like. And I'm just trying to check set list, but fish.net is currently offline for upgrades, so can't do that. Great timing, guys. But that first show is like, I don't think anybody regarded as one of the best shows of the overall tour, but it has that incredible stash. It has a huge mic's groove. I think that there's a yen in there. Like, it's just like, even in a show that we're so accustomed to thinking of tour openers is like, let's just settle in, see what's happening. That show is a brilliant display of this band already at this high level.

[Megan]

Yeah, they came in so ready to play.

[RJ]

Yeah, they. Okay, let's listen to a voicemail about that first show. How's that sound? It's our last. Our last voicemail of the episode. Can we get into it?

[Megan]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Justin]

Hey, it's Bright. I just wanted to call and let you know that I'm okay with call 97 being number two. And on that topic, I was at the Tour opener on 111397 in Vegas. It was pretty cool. The venue was tarped off, like, behind the stage. I don't know if everybody knows that. It felt pretty small in there. As a result, like, it was like two thirds of the arena. Black Eyed Kitty really blew me away. Like, it was noticeably something new. And afterwards I was like, what was that? That kind of moment? The yam funk had some really characteristic Jedi tone from Trey. That was great. It was like fall 97 right away. He couldn't wait to get it out there. It started during Paige's tramp solo. And I guess you just can't hold back and follow 97 Funk. It was ready to burst forth. Gotta talk about the stash in the second set. That was amazing. What a stash. Some of my favorite alien music ever. Pages twirling synthesis. We land in the sounds of the deep sea around the 15 minute mark. It was really trip. And the way it swells back up and into stash is so good. And it elicits an audible cheer on the odds. So listen for that anyway. Maybe stash second set opener show. That could be a whole show unto itself. Casting was pretty cool. It was like kind of a neat how Trey trilled with a melody around the melody. It was like a translate bass and less varied than Cassian nowadays. There was a jam in mics that started off sounding more like a 94 rather than a 97 jam, but with like more thunderboom bass behind it. And second jam starts around 10 minutes in. Second jam immediately allows for some more space between the sounds. Beautifully delicate. A quiet floating jam. And you know, it was a great tour overall, I'd say. A funny thing. Hey, great tour openers. That's another show idea. Anyway, one of my friends still says to this day that it was the worst performance by any artist he's ever seen. Just goes to show you what kind of shows he's seen.

[RJ]

Anyway.

[Justin]

You guys.

[Megan]

That'S awesome.

[Brian]

All right. That's a take from your buddy.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah. All right, let's. Now we got to talk about jams because we got to get. We got to get. We got to get going here. There's too much. There's too much to talk about. Where do you guys want to start?

[Megan]

I mean, I have like a way that I think about these jams. Can I explain that?

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

That I feel like there's four unbelievably top tier jams like that are just so incredibly legendary. And I think they're all kind of characterized where the funk groove takes them to these like wide open spaces where they start to like, then lean into dissonance. And then you've got the ambient looping and then just free floating exploration. Kind of like what the caller was just talking about. So I have those four jams. I'm curious if you agree that these are kind of like the top jams. And then I want to talk about some other jams that are like, not as kind of like, not at that level, but I think really interesting and kind of really dig into the sound of this tour. So the four that I had for the.

[Brian]

Oh, I want to hear.

[Megan]

Do you want to say something, Brian? Okay.

[Brian]

No, I want to hear them because I got four in my head.

[Megan]

Okay. I thought the Hampden Bag from 1121, the Denver Ghost from 1117, the Halley's Hampton from 1122, and the Worcester Gym from 1129, which someone I know drafted. And I think it was a pretty good pick. But. So those were kind of. The four that I felt like were probably the most indicative of like the fall 97 sound and the biggest ones. But I have others that I like just as much or more. But I was curious as to what you guys thought about that.

[Brian]

I definitely had the Ghost and the Haleys on my list. I'm glad you went with the bag. I think I would have gone with the Tweezer from the Palace. I just think that's a. That's a perfect jam.

[Megan]

Into Isabella.

[Brian]

Into Isabella. And like the fact that you go from this very, like, blissy, kind of just gorgeous, like, purpley type music that just like floats in the arena and then it turns into this Hendrix style shred fest that goes into Isabella, which is one of the covers of the year. Not to digress too much, but, like, the Gym is an interesting pick to me because that is the one jam that does not sound like fall 97 to me. That sounds like Fish is at a level of confidence that they can do whatever they want. And they play a jam that to my ears sounds more in the vein of 1995 in the Sprawl and in the fact that it's just like now. It definitely has like the funk elements. I think you're right. And it has like the watery kind of blissfulness. But it feels like a band that is almost just like, like, like, like, like a film director just being like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm just gonna release the three and a half hour long version of this movie because I made it in my head's, you know, like, I know better than you. And like, I feel like that jam is that, you know, to. To where the band is at at this point in time is them just stepping on stage and just saying, yeah, of course we're gonna play an uninterrupted for an hour.

[Megan]

Yeah, I can see that. I think it just has all the elements of 97, it's just, like, stretched out so long that it just explores, like, other places. Yeah, I see what you mean. Rj, what do you think?

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I. I don't know. I. That's not how I think about it at all, so. But I appreciate that. I. It's hard for me to separate the whole tour. I don't. I don't know. I don't. I just don't think about this tour in the context of Top jams. Yeah. It's just not. Because. Because the shows are so different. Like, and. And they're so. And they're like, they're.

[Megan]

They're.

[RJ]

I mean, it's just. It's just a personal thing also, because I've listened to them so many times that they're. It's hard to separate the gems from the shows for me.

[Megan]

Definitely. I think that's so true, especially because of the nature of how these shows flow.

[Brian]

Yeah. I like when I make a list of the jams that are hitting me as I go through these tours. I will sometimes just put, like, set two as. Just, like. That's the gym.

[Megan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian]

And it's pretty sparse on other tours, but like this, I have 1114 set to 1121, 1128, 126, and 1212. I think that that's all that. And there's other ones that you can make a very clear case argument. So, like, I'm sure someone's frantically typing right now that I'm wrong and it's new because I was.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Brian]

I was eating baby formula in fall 97.

[Megan]

But you're not that much younger than us. Brian, you need to cut this out. Like, this is making me feel old.

[Brian]

I've been told for 25 years that, like, hey, man, you just. You missed it. You were a baby. You missed it all. No, but, like, I think to your point, rj, it is hard in some cases to just be, like, this isolated jam, because when you say the 1121 bag to me, you have to have the ghost that goes into it, and you have to have the slave that comes out of it, and then the loving cup that adds just, like, one final exclamation point. Because so many of these shows are about another quote from Trey from Bittersweet, like, nobody cares. Nobody's coming here to hear us hit all the changes. They're coming here for the energy. They're coming here for the vibes. And you get that in these shows big time. And they last for a full hour. Hour, 15 minutes.

[Megan]

It was so hard to listen to this, to prep for this, because you just can't turn it off.

[RJ]

Yeah, I think those four jams that you mentioned are great, are all great and probably, like, the four best representations of it. It's just not how I think about it. I mean, I think, like. I also think, like, the Tweezer from the Palace, I mean, that was at that show, so it's a little bit different. But. No, I just think. I think it's a little. It gets, like. It gets call. It gets jumbled in with the Isabella, which is fine because the segues in this tour are amazing, and there's so many that are so great. There are two awesome ones in that show alone, but it's kind of overshadowed by the combination because the Tweezer itself is just amazing. Like, Brian kind of described it. But they, you know, I was like, right off the floor, straight ahead, looking at this, at the stage, that show, and, like, the bathtub gin and the foam in the first set, which is just absolutely perfect. You know, they did this. They did this so many times this tour, where they just. The segues were just amazing. So that, like, the Tweezer Isabella is a great combo, but the Tweezer itself, I just think is. It's. It's up there. And I think it, like, it doesn't get. It doesn't stand alone because of the. The combo, which is maybe not fair to that particular jam, but. But this tour is just. It's too much.

[Megan]

I mean, that. But I also have an argument that, like, that's what makes the jam even better, is that it has this, like, unbelievable segue at the end of it, you know, I think to me, that's like, when you can come out of a jam and land in, like, a classic rock cover. I mean, they do that so many times on this tour where they find jams out of these songs. Like, they were doing covers so well on this tour, like, it is. They pick the perfect covers. They're just like, either like, Shred Fest or their Funk Fest, or they're doing something like Roses Are Free, like, picking this song and just absolutely, like, making it their own and exploding it in this way. That's just. I think this is. You know, you always think of, like, 98 is, like, the year of covers, but I feel like this is the year they were doing covers the best they were finding covers to play that were so perfect for their sound. And so I totally know what you mean, that the Tweezer could stand alone. But the fact that it flows into this Isabella and this like, is just so incredible. Like, the energy of that is just amazing.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean like the, the ghost into ACDC bag that. In the, at the Hampton show. I mean the. Again, like the, the segue, just incredible. And that ghost is so tight, so funky.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Like everything's totally dialed in. There's a little bit of like meandering, but the segue is just killer. It's just. There's so much. There's just so much.

[Brian]

And I mean the fact that that ghost is played four days after the Denver one, which would be my pick for the best ghost, which, Meg, you're free to take now when we do the best ghost draft, I'm going to.

[Megan]

Make a note of that right now. I'm going to make a note of that right now.

[Brian]

That's the best ghost that's ever been played. And so, yeah, I expect you to take it first.

[Megan]

It's my second favorite jam of this tour, just so you know.

[Brian]

What's your number one?

[Megan]

I mean, I think it's the Hampton bag. I just fucking love that. I love that jam. I love that jam.

[Brian]

But then like, you know, the ghost that precedes that, like that there's the one after the Denver one is completely different from the Denver ghost.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Not like, like one thing, I think, rj, you've made a really good point about in episode after episode and you've beat it into our heads. And I'm finally here to like submit myself and agree with it that a lot of these tours we've talked about, the one downfall of doing this series is that we've realized a lot of these tours find a thematic sound and then that sound is the sound of the tour. And by the time you're done prepping for the episode, you're like, okay, I'm good with hearing that sound. And I think we saw something turn when we moved into like the top five or six. But I think this tour, while it's not the most different sound from show to show, you know, you do have this like four day gap between a all timer version of Ghost and then a version that has no interest in soloing, has no interest in rock. It's Trey playing chords and like the band's slowly building it up and bringing it back down and building up and bringing it back down and then segueing into AC bag, which lo and behold is now a jam vehicle. So you, you just get like, you get experiment. We kind of negated the term experimentation up front. But like, you get this dexterity between styles and between ideas that they're just able to do. You know, it's reminiscent of, like, Jordan in 92 and 93, where he's not inventing new moves. He just knows the court and he knows his teammates. And so he plays in a manner that is just like you've never seen a basketball player play that level before, because not only is he technically at that, at this peak period, but also he knows it. And. And so you get that with Fish, they know that they're as great as possible, so it doesn't matter how we play, we're going to play great.

[Megan]

Well, there's a fluidity to it that I think is. Is what makes the flow so great. And what I imagine Michael Jordan played like in 92, I don't know, but I imagine it was very fluid. And I think that when you're in the zone like this, when you're soaring like this, as you said, rj, you're able to do crazy shit that just like, works like, you know, play this brand new cover and Roses are Free and then end up in BlackBerry Creature of Mars into Ghost into Downward Disease Reprise, like you're just able to do. You're so flexible. And I think that you see that pay off over and over again in this, in these shows.

[RJ]

Yeah. Let's talk about the Denver Ghost more. Let's talk about it more.

[Megan]

Let's do it. Let's do it.

[Brian]

Tell me. Tell me all about it.

[RJ]

When we started to undermine series about fall 97 in the lead up to that, which was 25 shows that led to fall 97, curated by Brian Brinkman. Thank you, Brian. But we knew. We knew that we were going to, like, talk to Trey about one of these shows. And this was like, immediately like, we have to talk to him about this, this Denver Ghost. But he. He talked about how, like, he described it as like surfing a wave on Paige's piano during that solo. And like, first of all, to have Trey listening back to Fish jams and then talking about them, it's just outrageous.

[Brian]

That's a podcast idea.

[RJ]

It is.

[Megan]

Seriously.

[RJ]

Podcast.

[Brian]

Oh, my God.

[RJ]

But I think that's, like. It's not what I would have expected him to say, you know, that he was like, in the, like, almost reacting to what Paige is doing. But I mean, that's the soloing in that Ghost around that whatever it is like right in the middle. I mean, it's just. It's just tremendous. I think this is like my top. It's like, definitely in my Top five jams of all time, I think. It's just. It's just amazing. And then, you know, in that set, the first set, like, the Tweezer and then Reba, and then there's, like, Trey's, like, kind of laughing in between Reba and Train Song. And then. And then the Ghost and then Fire. I mean, it's just like, what the, man. I mean, what are you doing? It's just. It's totally. It's totally insane.

[Megan]

It's so good. I. That moment when Paige is, like. Drives the song into the bliss section on the piano. It's. Every time I hear it, it just, like, makes me just, like. It just makes me, like, stop. Like, I can't even believe how beautiful it is. Paige does that so many times on his tour when you're. Which you don't expect because it's this, like, funk kind of swaggery. And then he just comes in with the piano and super dramatic, and it just completely shifts the jam in such a way that is so sophisticated and incredible. And you can hear. Yeah, you can hear him and Trey. Him and Trey, like, have so many moments in this tour that they're just. Just talking to each other in a way that's incredible. And I always love this jam because at the, like, droning, ambient melt and then Trey comes on and is like, we're gonna have some more music, you know, for your dancing and listening pleasure. Like, it's so sexy. I'm like, this. I mean, I know this is Fish's, like, sexiest tour, but, like, Trey, like, lounge singer, like, talking to the crowd like that, it's just. I can't take it. It's too good. It's just so good. This is perfect. Perfect jam.

[RJ]

And I just.

[Brian]

That beat from Fishman, like, come on. Yeah, like. Yeah, go ahead.

[RJ]

I'm not. I'm not, like, a huge fan of the second set of that show. I think it's. It's good, but is this the one of two Jesus just left Chicago's from this tour that are just, like, the patience, along with the perfect playing of a cover like that. That the. This and the Dayton version are both just. They're. They're so good, and there's just. There's no rush, but it's, like, perfectly played and just kind of, like, what a different kind of vibe in the middle of a second set. Like, you know, with all kinds of going on. That show is just. It's amazing. And that was the third, fourth show of the tour. I mean, it's Just crazy. Can we talk about this controversial Wolfman's Brother from yes, Champagne.

[Megan]

We have to. I want to talk about.

[Brian]

Can I just give a quick little bump for the. The Johnny B. Goode from the second set?

[RJ]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian]

I agree with you. The second set does not work as well as the first set. You have the mix of the Cow Funk and Tweezer and then the Ghost, which is one of the most perfectly played note for note jams we've ever heard. But the Johnny B. Goode, it sounds like a 98 jam. Like, it sounds like it comes out of the island tour. It sounds like a band that is already thinking two steps ahead. And it kind of reminds me of that Ghost from Hampton where you get more chordal jamming. You get just like space exploration. Whereas the Ghost feels more rooted in rock and roll and funk and American sounds in a way that kind of is representative of this tour and is part of the reason I think it's one of the best fish jams ever. But that Johnny B. Goode, as an aside, if you have not heard that in some time, please, please, please seek it out. It's so good.

[Megan]

I love how they play that song so much on this tour. And Trey still doesn't really know the lyrics. It's like amazing.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Every time he's like. There's like always a moment or two when he's like, like kind of just like moan, like saying something. It's so great. But the fact that they can find that space out of that song is just. Blows my mind.

[RJ]

Yeah. Yeah. It's just about. It's not about the changes, you know, it's not.

[Brian]

It's all about the energy.

[RJ]

It's all about the energy.

[Brian]

The. Out of here, Brad, you know?

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Kiss my ass, you tool.

[RJ]

Oh, my God. So what, What. So you guys. What do you guys think about this Wolfman's Brother? Because. Well, there. There's a couple examples in this tour just of, like, how wired into my brain this music is. Like, every time that I hear Wolfman's Brother, I hear Train Trey saying, yeah, like he does at the beginning. This is awesome. I love that they. They go. I mean, they go a lot of places in this jam. There's like, it's. It's kind of late. It's like pretty laid back for a while. And then, then Trey just pushes it into this like really kind of up tempo hard rock jam. And then it goes into this blues space, which somehow then goes into Macasupo, which I think is a. Like, I think It's a really fun jam, but I don't know. I think maybe people don't like it as much as I do. What do you guys think?

[Brian]

I think it's very aggressively Trey, and I think that similar to the bathtub gin from Winston Salem, there are a few moments where you're like, maybe we should listen to the other three guys in the band. Like, I think that that's the point of this era of Fish. But that said, if you want that, this is maybe the best example of that, because he is just like, imagine being so good at your craft that you are fully comfortable and confident standing in front of 15,000 people, shredding, like, shredding for 11 or 12 minutes. Like, I feel like you should play this for, you know, run down your list of Rolling Stones, top guitarist, list of, you know, like, how many of them had the opportunity and the trust and the belief in their audience and the patience of their audience to be like, you go off for 12 minutes. So, like, it's. It's a huge accomplishment, but it's almost like. Sorry to make another basketball reference here, but it's almost like Kobe's 81 points where, like, at some point, the other four Lakers just stopped doing anything. They just repeating the ball to Kobe. And so, like, you. You get that out of this jam, where it's just like, Trey, just go. And sometimes I really want that.

[Megan]

Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt. It's an amazing accomplishment. It's funny. And I think maybe this jam was a sacrificial lamb in this way, but this project requires a lot of intense listening. I think everybody probably knows that. But I just want to say that, again, you can't be, like, just doing other shit all the time. And so you're trying to find moments to listen to music when you can really concentrate on it. And I'm looking for things to stop me in my tracks. And so for this one, it didn't. And I. And maybe I just was distracted in that moment. But it's.

[Brian]

It.

[Megan]

It's a great jam. I just. It wasn't to me, like, one of the ones where I was like, oh, like, I will be going back to this, like, right away as soon as I can. And I have a list of, like, 10 of those that I felt like, but maybe 15. But this is the show also that Trey said he didn't like one of these sets. Right. It must have been the first set, right? Or the second. Like, this is the show that he said he didn't like one of These sets. I'm so curious.

[Brian]

There's two sets in this tour that he did not.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Yes, this is definitely. The show has one.

[Megan]

The show is one of them. And I mean, but the show's great. Like, it's got that super cool makasupa. Like, I don't know.

[RJ]

This is cool. The Bathtub Gin in the. In the first set, which is like this euphoric jam, and then somehow perfectly segues into Llama, which is just outrageous. But. But the rest of the set is fine. I think there was, like, some. There must have been some miscommunication. It's not a great first set overall, but. But the way they hit that Llama and from Bathtub Gin is just. Yeah, I mean, it's not the greatest.

[Brian]

First set overall, but, like, the bar is very high. It's still very. Yeah, like, compared to a lot of their career, it's a good set.

[RJ]

I wonder how often he said that in. In 3.04. Did he, like, come off. Say, like, every show. Yeah, about most of. Oh, four. All right.

[Brian]

Sounds like a perfect day. Wow.

[RJ]

Brian. Brian, I want to hear a gem from you, but first I want to hear from our sponsors.

[Brian]

Hey, this is Steve Choi, host of the Musicians Guild Podcast, part of the Sound Talent Media Podcast Network. Within the four walls of the Musicians Guild, we'll be discussing the habits, idiosyncrasies, experiences, and general psychology of my friends and peers all involved with music in various capacities. Listen and subscribe@soundtalent media.com hey, this is.

[RJ]

Dewey Holpus, host of Pure Pleasure on the Sound Talent Media Podcast Network. Join me each week as I explore.

[Brian]

Another long form conversation with one of.

[RJ]

Your favorite musicians, actors, comedians, or creatives.

[Brian]

From Chino Moreno of the Deftones, John.

[RJ]

Gourley of Portugal, the Man. To Fat Mike from no Effects, and Ian Makai from Fugazi and Minor Threat.

[Brian]

We go all over the map.

[RJ]

From Fallout Boy to Slayer, Pure pleasure has it all. Check us out now on Sound Talent Media. Okay, Brian, take us. Take us where you want to take us.

[Brian]

Well, I'm going to talk about 2004 because we need to address. No, I'm joking. Trying to decide about where I want to go. I know.

[Megan]

I'm curious about where you're gonna go.

[Brian]

So I'm gonna go with one of the sets that I listed that has a number of jams in it because, you know, let's just let me talk a little bit longer. The 12:12 second set, because I want to go with something that's not Officially released. There's a couple. I was going to go 12, 2, but this sodagin Piper Swept Away Steep caspian, which is 18 and a half minutes into Isabella Tweezer Reprise. This is an hour and two minutes long. It's kind of emblematic of everything we've been talking about. Where it's songs in non traditional places that work really well and where they're placed, they blow out and they're huge. And it's also a set that when you press play on Saw It Again, you have to listen all the way through to his reprise and you can't really join midway through. And I think a lot of it, like you get this very hyper aggressive, you know, just intense, hard rocking jamming in Piper and you get the same sort of, you know, kind of like big aggressive arena rock in Prince Caspian, but within both of those as well, you get contemplation and you get these kind of moments of silence and you get kind of a theme that I've been thinking about as I listened through this tour that. Meg, you said it earlier, like it's. It's. It's known as kind of the funk tour, but when I listen to it. And the stash from 1113 is a great example. The end of the Ghost from Denver, that Macasupa from Champagne that you were just talking about. The best parts of this tour have nothing to do with funk. They're either Trey shredding at a very high level or it's this kind of quiet rhythmic space that the band has found that they're going to build upon over the next two years. And this set as a whole, which I will just submit as a singular jam, has all of that in one and all of that in three minutes longer than the Runaway Gym from Worcester. That's crazy. Three minutes longer than that. So like you're just getting a band that is a diversity of ideas, confidence and then being able to just flow and connect ideas together in a way that either works in one jam or works across multiple jams.

[RJ]

Yeah, getting these tapes, this is one of the obviously second to last show, but you see this on a set list and it's just amazing, you know. Yeah, like what a great construction. I just. The only thing I would say to add to what you said is that this Piper is kind of like a foreshadowing of what, what the song would become. Because really you don't get. This is the first tour where you really get Piper like, you know, darker, harder edged and then kind of like mellowing space toward the End. And that jam, it's just like a. That. That'll be like 10 or 15% of fishes jamming over the next however many years. Is.

[Brian]

Is.

[RJ]

Is that comes from that, right? Yeah, it's just kind of crazy, but it, it kind of comes alive during this tour.

[Brian]

It's a good point.

[Megan]

Oh God, that set. I was driving home in the rain last night or two nights ago listening to that set and I was just like, wow, this set is such a vibe. It's so good.

[RJ]

It's crazy. It's crazy.

[Brian]

Brian, one night earlier. Sorry, Jackson. Richard just noted the Rochester drowned, which gets into that. That space that we were talking about. It's very. It's beautiful, it's melodic, it's spacious. Like we' past cow funk here and we're starting to look towards what's next. And yeah, that's just. I mean, obviously goes into the first Roses Are Free, but that's. That's a killer, killer jam.

[RJ]

Yeah. Yeah. We should talk about that show. I just. The only thing I wanted to say was just you were mentioning the kind of like misconceptions around the. It being funk. And I think if you go back to like that 1114 show that, that we were talking about before, which, by the way, I think that that second set is 54 minutes long, which is just kind of amazing.

[Megan]

It's so short.

[Brian]

It's.

[Megan]

But like, honestly, how many times on the show have we said just stop the set there and just walk off? Like, they're so.

[RJ]

I love the 54 minute set. It just makes.

[Megan]

Yeah, I'd fucking definitely love it. If it's not this good, I would not love it. But like when they're playing really well and you can do it really tightly, I feel like now they just, just. They love to tack on a couple songs that don't always like add something.

[RJ]

That, that Wolfman's though, that opens the second set that has like, it's. It's a groove oriented, it's kind of grungy, it's like really. It's not funk. And I think there are a lot of jams on this tour that have these totally different sounds of them that, that are really awesome. In addition to all the super fun funky gems.

[Brian]

Yeah, because we're getting to the. Sorry. We're getting to the point where the funk has like. It was. It's so like drenched throughout summer. Europe 97 and the further we get from that, it's kind of at times becoming a crutch. Even in ways I enjoy, like the Philly Jam out of Possum is just kind of like, hey, let's vamp for a little bit. Why not? You know, everyone loves it, but, like, that's a really fun jam and, like, it clearly leads to promising places. But we are. We do start to hear. As this tour evolves, the bands start to think, okay, how can we use this sound to get to wherever we're going to go next? And within four months, they're going to play a standout run that will sound somewhat like fall 97, but also this new beast entirely because of this work that they've done.

[Megan]

But that's what I think is actually amazing about this tour, is because I was talking about this a little bit at the beginning, and the jam I want to talk about next is really indicative of this, is that they're peaking, but they're still, like, looking over the mountain to see what's next. They're not just, like, staying in what's gotten them there. And I think that's one of the reasons why this band is so amazing. But I really want to talk about the Down With Seas from Rochester. This jam is amazing. It's the second song of the show. It's really wild and thrashing, and then it gets so jazzy and the funk just starts to slow down. And you hear them doing this a lot where they take a funk riff and just come completely, like, stretch it out and slow it down and it becomes really sexy and just kind of dripping with confidence. And at one point, it almost comes to, like, a complete stop and they pause and then drop right back in. And it's like when you're watching a scene. Yeah, it's just. It's so good when you're watching a scene in a movie and two actors are having this really intense conversation, and then one of them says something that's just so perfect and poignant in, like, the perfect delivery. It's that hitting that moment so right. That's what they do multiple times in this. In these shows, and especially in this jam. It's just, oh, my God, it's so good when they come back in and they're using this technique, this stop start that they've, like, you know, learned in the funk. But they're doing it in such a sophisticated, mature way that it becomes like a much more kind of elevated thing. And I think this jam I've listened to, like, three times this week, and I've been listening to all this stuff, but I just keep going back to it because it's really beautiful. And then it Kind of creeps into that maze, which is really good. But I know we're gonna talk about this show, so I won't get into it.

[Brian]

But yeah, that jam, that analogy you made though, about, you know, this kind of being like a dialogue rich scene where one of the actors then says something perfectly delivered. Like think about how hard and how much of a lengthy process it is to get to that moment where like, oh my God, like that's multiple drafts on a script, that's rehearsals, that's shooting and reshooting and then editing. This is in the moment. And I think that's one of the things that the more we listen through this, these tours and as we get to the end of this series, the amount of jams that we've heard that feel like that and knowing that this is a band that is in the moment playing the show to you, but also constantly tinkering and moving forward and you get moments like that. It's just. It's all the more impressive. Yeah, this jam kind of has that. Because this jam has that hard edge out of disease and then that space and that quiet that you don't necessarily connect with funk, but is there. It's part of the it's the groove kind of preview.

[RJ]

Let's talk about shows. What do we need to do?

[Brian]

Can we talk about one more jam? Because we had an awesome one we.

[Megan]

Have to talk about.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Only if you're not going to talk about the show. Also.

[Brian]

I'm not going to talk about this show. I'll talk about this show later. The. This is a very controversial pick, but this is something that I think we should at least address. Yes, the wolfman's brother from 11:30. This is the third song, I want to say, of the show. This is a very strange show. It opens with Gayudi, goes into a 15 minute funky bitch and then a 30 minute Wolfmans which includes teases of Heartbreaker, Sanity and Esther. This is described as a yin yang improvisational version. Following the expected funk, the jam breaks into nine plus minutes of lush, beautiful, delicate plane. By around 15:30, some dissonance creeps into the mix and they launch into an insane heavy metal pentagram death jam that the riff cycles over and over and over again and Chris Corota ultimately ends up killing the lights. I think Trey was behind the rig. A lot of people don't like this jam. When I was listening through this tour, this struck me as probably the most experimental and risk taking jam of the overall tour because it does have that beautiful Period, up front, which is some of the prettiest ambient type of music that they played throughout the tour. And then it has this riff that is really just about, like, can we all stay in rhythm? It's like a raga, almost. Like, can we all do this? Can we all build upon this? Like, are we going to lose the audience? And I fully understand and accept why people would not like this. But, like, it does something for me that I really enjoy. And, Meg, I think you had a positive reaction to it as well. So what are you. What are your thoughts on this?

[Megan]

I love this jam. It's funny because I kind of forgot, or maybe I didn't know that people hated this jam, but to me, it's the most organic jam that I've maybe ever heard. It just. There's no attempt to take it in one direction or not. And I think the. The willingness to float somewhere and stay there and exist in a musical space is so. To me, that's very risky. And it just has this. Yeah. Like, a trance feeling to it and how they stick with it at the end. Like, when it gets to that, like, grinding part at the end, it's so. I don't know. I just feel like it's. To me, it's really compelling when someone's willing to take a risk artistically like that and sit in it and just let it go. And the fact that they land in an Elvis song is amazing. Like, it's amazing. Like, who would ever think of that except Fish?

[Brian]

Way to connect yourself to, like, larger American music.

[Megan]

Yeah, I just. I don't even know. It's so good. Like, I just. Just. It's. To me, this is, like. This is. I love this stuff.

[Brian]

Rj, what are your thoughts on this?

[RJ]

Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm kind of agnostic about it. I mean, I think it's like, the. The deviations from the norm are. Are great. I think it's. I think. Yeah. I mean, I guess I've just maybe listened to this stuff too much to have, like, real authentic new opinions about it. Like, I've heard this jam so many times that it's like. It's the thing. It is. And I like it. It. Because it's part of this other. It's part of this adventure, you know? I mean, it's also. They start to go back, you know, down toward, obviously to Philly and then back toward the Midwest after the show. So it's like another kind of, like, milestone in the tour, you know, where they, like, finish up this three Night run after Thanksgiving and. And then go to this, like, again, like another group of shows. That's just totally. It was just like an endless party. I assume there's a lot of drugs involved in this show and I, I, yeah, I appreciate it. I'm never going to be sad about listening to it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I like it. I like it. I don't have any. I don't have anything bad to say, but I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna use some of the same words that Megan did.

[Megan]

Diplomatically said, rj.

[RJ]

I mean, this tour is like. There's no, there's nothing bad. There's literally nothing bad about the entire tour. There's not a single show or jam that I don't like. Sorry.

[Megan]

I love that. It's true.

[RJ]

I wish I had something.

[Brian]

I will say this is one of those tour. I think this is the tour that sounds as good in audience recording as it does in Soundboard. And I think that is one of the things that makes it really enjoyable to listen to, is that you can fire up re listen and throw any show on, even if it's been officially released. And the. The tapers got those rooms just perfect. Perfect. And. And the way that the band sounds with those. The instruments bouncing off the walls versus the way that those instruments sound through the soundboard. Oh, man, I will take both of them. But yeah, let's. Let's talk shows here because there's a lot.

[RJ]

There's a lot. Megan, do you want to go first?

[Megan]

Yeah, sure. I mean, I really want to talk about the Rochester show because I know we've talked about it a little bit, but I think it's, to me, probably one of the best shows and it should be released. I mean, this is so highly rated. It's rated just below 1230, 97, like barely below it, which is a tiny bit crazy. But of course, the show's taped for Bittersweet Motel. But yeah, the flow. We've talked about it. I talked about the down, the disease, the Drowned, you know, Jackson was talking about too. Just perfect ambient melt. It's so gorgeous. It's like a piece of heaven. And then this Roses are free. To me, this is like they're covering this Ween song, which I don't even think Ween had played live at that point. Is that true? I think I read something about that, that they had never played this live or they plan it like one or two times. It was a brand new song and this is like trying on like Cinderella Slipper. And it fitting like, like perfect. Like they just make this their own in a way that I just think is so incredible. And to know what this song's gonna be in April, you know, in a few months, like it's just so incredible knowing what it's gonna be for the band. And then, yeah, the big black furry creature from Mars into Ghost. And then this. They reprise the Down With Disease which was the second song of this great jam. That kind of ability to, to circle back to where you started in a show and then Johnny Be Goode. It's just to me that whole. It's just such a piece of art. This show has incredible narrative arc, I think.

[RJ]

Yeah. I thought it was released when I went to listen to it because I think it's like it should be.

[Megan]

Right. Like how is it not?

[RJ]

Yeah, I was kind of surprised that it wasn't. But I agree with what you said Brian, about the audience. I think this was also remastered.

[Megan]

I think it doesn't sound bad. Not like the Next night, which is bad.

[Brian]

The Next night is one of the worst sounding audience tapes. But yeah, I mean I. This is jumping ahead to a section but like I would love to see. Similar to. We saw the Hampton Winston Salem. I'd love to see a Rochester Albany, upstate New York release because I think these three shows, the Rochester 1211 and the Albany shows fit together really nicely. They showcase a slightly different sound. There's a lot of diversity into. In terms of big jams and set flow in 1211 and 1212. And then 1213 is really just kind of like, oh, we got to play one more show. We're just going to have party. Like it feels less like the major accomplishments of earlier in the tour, but like a band just, you know, knowing we just played a month of, of stunning shows. I think Rochester is a killer show. I think it's. It's a pretty perfect two set show if you like you're. You're combining great songs, set list selection, great jams, jams, unexpected places, good flow where like there's ballads where, you know, maybe in your dreams you put in jam vehicle. But like, let's be realistic, you need kind of a ballad every so often. I think that's a great pick.

[RJ]

Brian, can I just say one thing about the. The only thing I wanted to just mention about this is the. The old drop into Ghost is just so much more of a powerful way to start the song. They should just.

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

Just go back to it.

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

And that version is really. Mike's playing in that. In that Rochester version is amazing. And then the way they like on a dime, speed the tempo up to go back into that down with disease.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

That's so pretty incredible. Pretty incredible. Yeah.

[Brian]

The. The combo of the siren intro in 98 and the just like drop in in 97. I don't. I love ghosts. I don't think that they've gotten it right ever since 2.0. It's a little bit too of a rock. I would love to hear them just be like, let's just see what happens in if you know, one night we just try to play a 97 style ghost.

[Megan]

I. I think I would die. I think I.

[Brian]

People lose their minds.

[Megan]

I would die. I would die. They could do that at msg. That would be good.

[Brian]

That would be good. They could have done that on night four. Mond or day for Mond Grain. Right?

[Megan]

It would have been great.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Could have played like steep, swept away. Like would have been a great thing. That's a great landing after jam.

[Brian]

It's a good landing. Can I share a show?

[Megan]

Yes, please.

[RJ]

Land it.

[Brian]

Land it. I want to. I want to jump back a few weeks earlier in the tour to 1126 from Hartford. This show does similar stuff to Rochester in different ways. Both sets are over an hour long, which is kind of shocking. The first set's almost 90 minutes. The second set is almost 80 minutes. But you get this really beautiful, pretty stunning tweezer to open things up. Very hosey. It's not like the most mind blowing jam that you're gonna get, but it's just like very, very hosy Fish. A really cool gumbo midway through. That's got a very like manteca like jam. My soul, which I'm currently. Because fish.net is down. I'm on fish.in and one person has hearted the version of my soul from the show. So I don't know who you are.

[Megan]

Takes all kinds. Yeah, all.

[Brian]

All kinds here. One song didn't need a heart. You know, we didn't. We don't need it. Everywhere you get a jam charted McRup, you get a really, really good taste. And then in the second set you get kind of this move that they've made where they open up with a non traditional song in character zero. They jam said non traditional song. 21 minute character zero. Then we get this whole segue of 2001 Cities Yamar into punch and then a resolves with Caspian close out with a poor heart tweezer reprise. It's just like really well constructed stuff. Not again. Not the most Mind blowing jamming that we're ever going to hear. And not the most mind blowing jamming in this tour. But like, if you think back one fall prior our number 25 tour, there weren't a lot of sets like this where you could just press play and the band was going to, without a note in front of them, move through different styles and move through all these different songs and somehow they were all going to fit. Not a lot of these songs are going to be paired together in a second set in the future, but they all work. And that's a pretty stunning thing.

[Megan]

Yeah. This 2001, when the crowd starts clapping, it's like an episode of Soul Train or something. Is fucking cool. It's so good. This is the whole second set is basically on the jam chart too. It's pretty crazy.

[RJ]

Yeah, it's great. I mean, the Tweezer underrated show. Yeah, it is. I agree. The Tweezer opener is just like Vibes. It's Vibes tour so good. They're just the funk and it's just. God, it's great. Late November in the northeast and everyone's just there. Everyone's just there. It's awesome. So great.

[Megan]

So taste too. Like the full band is just. Just like firing on all sand lenders. It's just soars over.

[Brian]

Like.

[Megan]

That's a great taste.

[RJ]

Yeah. Do you guys want to talk about. I went to.

[Brian]

This is like.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Brian]

This is like. I'm just thinking about geographically. Like they've. They played out west, they play the Midwest, they go down to Hampton. They play this great run. They play Winston Salem. Not really a fish stop, but they play Winston Salem. And now we're in Hartford. So sadly, and it's right before the holidays and we're gonna do hard for Worcester. Like, these are the vibes.

[RJ]

They are. They are the vibes, Brian. The. The 122 and 123 shows. It is interesting that that's. They are kind of like a representative album when you take them together of the tour.

[Megan]

Totally.

[RJ]

You know, I don't think they're the best shows of the tour, but I think they're. I think they're. They're both. They're like complementary in a way.

[Megan]

There's some of the best shows of.

[Brian]

The tour set 2 of 122 is the best set of the tour.

[RJ]

You think so?

[Brian]

I do, yeah.

[Megan]

It's perfection.

[Brian]

Fun fact. I was on the road in November 2020, driving from Denver to Chicago when the election results were announced. And we. We had been waiting on Philadelphia. Philadelphia finally came in. So what Did I do? I blasted 122 set to as a celebration. I will take Dog Face Boy in any second set sandwich. Like, I think that's a, that's a really, I mean, that's a top 15 fish song for me. No context needed. Like, if you think I'm wrong, come on, come at me. Like, that is a gorgeous, gorgeous Love Lauren song. The Yamar is like raunchy and just like, it's crazy. And then it goes into weak pog and it's, it's unbelievable stuff. I, I, I don't know. This is one of my. The Spectrum release is one of my top albums of the overall year. So how am I supposed to argue that this isn't one of the best like this.

[RJ]

Argue against yourself, so you might as well just.

[Megan]

I think this set, like the flow in this mic screw is just insane. I'm so glad we have it on release because you really need to hear what's going on in this mics because this, there's so much going on underneath. It's so interesting. Like the groove is happening up here and then all this stuff is happening underneath it. They just sound so in control and it has that giant build. And during simple and then the fact that like in simple you've got that Paige and Trey duet, which is so beautiful, so pretty. And then it kind of gallops into Dog Face Boy, which is perfect. And then they're playing Dog Face singing Dog Face Boy over the simple jam. It's, it's so incredible. And then it has another like seamless, perfect segue into Yamar. And Fish just goes off in Yamar. Like he is just, it's. Yeah, this, this set is incredible. I'm so glad this is released.

[Brian]

Oh my God. It's just like the simplest music. Why not? Let's like, why be overly showy?

[Megan]

It's minimal. It's like they do it so rarely and so when they do it, it's so impactful. And that's why they're old. I think they're really old. Ballads are so special because they're really simple and they're really powerful.

[RJ]

You say, Brian, did you say this is the best, your favorite or you think it's the best set of the tour or the best set two of the tour or both?

[Brian]

Both. I think this is the best set of the tour, personally speaking.

[Megan]

Wow. I don't know.

[RJ]

That's very interesting.

[Brian]

It's either this or 1121 set too from me. But I'm, I'm just like an endless or 12, 6 set. Too. I'm just like an endless contrarian. I have to, you know, take things like 85 jams and drafts. So, you know.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think that Hampton's. That the. The mic. I mean, the mics, too, from that is like. I don't know. That's pretty insane. Like.

[RJ]

Yeah, that.

[Megan]

That shows, like, insane. It's perfect. That's the most perfect set list ever. I don't know. Yeah, like, one of the best ever. Yeah, that. Yeah, like, the 1122 double sack. They've got the, like, Mike's like Hydrogen We Pug, which is incredible. But then they play this beautiful hood, and then they play Train Song, and then Billy Breathes, so they have this, like, double stack of, like, ballads, and then they go to Frankenstein and Isabella. It shouldn't work, but it works so perfectly. It's just. It's a setless construction that's very different. But it's got to be one of the best first sets ever played.

[Brian]

Yes, unquestionably.

[RJ]

Yeah. The whole show is just pretty perfect. I mean, I think those two shows are. I would take those two shows. I think the first show set one with the Emotional Rescue jam into Split Open and Melt.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

I mean, some of that set is not as good, but I mean, that. Those two shows are just outrageous. I think the best is going to.

[Brian]

I was just gonna say that Emotional Rescue is a great reason why you would put debuts on the jam chart, but go ahead.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Because it's also a jam, though.

[Brian]

My point exactly.

[RJ]

Yeah, but it's a debut covered 18 minutes. Like, are you kidding? And then so good. I mean, the. The whole thing is just. None of it makes any sense. This whole tour is just outrageous. Let's talk about the best first set of the tour or one of the five best first sets of the tour, which is the Dayton set one, which is perfect start to finish. There's no. There's no. First of all, if you think this show's overrated, I'm sorry that you didn't get to go for whatever reason, but this is start to finish. This set. It's bookended by two of the coolest segue moments of the tour and of this year, I think. But the ACDC bag into Psycho Killer is.

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

I think it's one of the most interesting segues in Fish history because they. They just. They come up with this out of, what, the first time in four years they play this out of an AC DC bag that just. First of all, the lights and the. There were balloons everywhere. This place was just this is. This vibe central. I'll never forget it. But the. Jesus just left Chicago again. Like, great, perfect, patient. And then you get the. Like, even the. So it's ice. Swept away, steep ice. That's usually a segment where I'm like, okay, whatever. Let's just, like, move on. But it's even. That is just. It's perfect. It's just perfect. And then you end this set with this tube into jam into the Slave. Everyone knows it. And there's a theme there, too, which is also great. I mean, like, I don't know. If you don't. If you don't think that this tube through the end of the Slave is, like, the coolest thing that you've ever heard, then you got to just listen to it again because there are. First of all, there's like, the let's start that jam again thing, which is just the best. It's just the best. I mean, it's like. There are moments like that. There's, like, the Cavern, the island tour. Cavern has that similar thing where it's just like, yes, fuck it. Like, you know. But the way that it slowly transitions into Slave over the course of, like, four minutes is just. Just amazing. I mean, it's just amazing. It's just. This set is. Is perfect. It's a perfect set. And, you know, I'm sorry you didn't get to go to the show if you. If you don't like it.

[Brian]

A quote is for an audience of one. The sound out of Trey's guitar when, you know. So let's go back in that jam. Fishman hits the snare, and then Trey hits that chord, and he does this thing that he does a bunch throughout fall 97, where I think he's on, like, the wah, and he's, like, moving it and he's strumming really quickly. And it just. It doesn't sound like a guitar. It's. It's a sound all unto Trey. And then as it's starting to move into Slave, whatever effect Mike has on his guitar, that just, to me, sounds like. Like, it's. It's what I would imagine. Like, you know, columns of, like, nuclear waste sound like. Like, it's just like. It's. It's like cylinders of nuke, you know, nuclear power at the Springsteen plant. Like, it's just. It's. It's so wild. It's so unnatural. But I just. It's metallic. It's. It's. But it's us. I can't get enough of it. It's. It's some of my favorite stuff he. He's ever done. And yeah, I think you're right. Like, I think as you talk about this tour, it's. You realize how overwhelming this tour is because it's just by the time we get to this point in time, there's five shows left and there's still five really, really great shows left and we've already had a whole. So is this the best first set potentially? I think it's a really, really great first set. And I think like when you think about the context of ACDC Bag at this point in time, it had had this huge jam version on 1121 and it's going to have another huge jam ve on 12:30, a jam I'm really, really fond of. And this one you have to imagine was going to be a show opening jam because they, they don't go into Psycho Killer out of ACDC Bag. They go into a jam and then they find their way almost immediately in Psycho Killer. So you have to imagine that the Psycho Killer is totally unplanned. They don't. They kind of remember the lyrics as well as like you remember them at a party when you're like, yo, let's play Psycho Killer and like there's, you know, people playing around you. It adds to the vibe. It's kind of like the. Yeah, because sure, we could use another 15, 20 minute ACDC bag that opens the show. That'd be awesome. But I think what they did here is better.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think this first set is like a perfect show and the second set is so dreamy but it almost feels like a bonus because it doesn't even matter. Like the first set was so good that when they come out and you know they play this like boogie on that just goes so hard. In 97 style. Gorgeous. Reba, really amazing. Gayudi and Possum. It's a killer set, but it just feels like a bonus because the first set is like absolutely perfection. It's hard to do that too. I think it's hard. And they do that again and again. They play these like fucking amazing first sets and then they come on and play a great second set too. It's like they never, they never seem to like run out of. Of ideas or juice or gas or whatever. They're always, they're just always like in, in the. In the zone. It's wild.

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean in the second set was bust off to 989 shows.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Pretty sure that this was the biggest bust out ever at the time.

[Megan]

And then they're going to do it again later in the year with Sally. Like that. That's. They're. They're finding these songs that they. They're going way back and finding stuff that's just so good for this and genius stuff.

[RJ]

Yeah. I will say I know Brian knows the story, but I. I drove from Columbus back to. Or from Dayton back to Columbus. This, after this show on a Sunday night. Um, it was like a two hour drive. I got back to my freshman year Dorm room at 2am I parked my car, went to sleep at 2am I got up at 8 to take my first ever college exam, which I got an A on. And I slept like, yes, college is awesome.

[Megan]

You're like, I can do anything. I'm on top of the world.

[RJ]

The absolute best. And the next day after that, after my, the day after my exam, we drove to State College in.

[Megan]

Oh my God.

[RJ]

Snowy, snowy back roads and my friend's Defender 90, which had no back seat. So whoever. The three of us, two of us who were switching, whoever got the very back. We were just kind of like sitting in the back of a, of an, of a truck. We walked in during the mics opener. Very picturesque snowy night in a. In a college town. It was that. That show is. We. We don't have to talk about it, but Fishman screaming during Julius is. Is a. Is a great sign of like how they were feeling at that point in the tour.

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

I don't know. That show gets, I don't think, really a lot of attention, but there's some really good moments in that show.

[Brian]

Yeah, I think that, that show, it gets. It just gets overshadowed by what happened before that weekend prior and what's going to happen in the final weekend of the tour. But I think the simple is definitely worth listening to. It's a solid hood to close out the second set. It's not like a super flowy second set which, you know, like saying it out loud like Julia's Simple Timber Contact Accelera Hood. That probably could work in a different context, but that doesn't totally work here as it would in other settings.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan]

But this, this symbol is awesome though, that it has that feel of like just a super gradual build. It's really sophisticated. The improv though. And it takes a while to like kind of get lit up, but then it kind of swells and then they have that super weird segue where they basically start to play Bowie but then they go into Timber. It's like so weird, but they do play like a cool psychedelic timber. Like that. That's. I'm not really into Timber, but it's a cool version of it.

[RJ]

It definitely is like Bowie for a really long time until they like.

[Megan]

A really long time. Like. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

I think that that probably elevates the show if they were to have done Bowie versus Timber. Because while Timber had had jam moments, the next show I want to mention has a great Timber jam. But, like, Bowie has some. Some like the 12 3. Bowie is one of the best jams of the overall tour. We haven't even talked about it. It's 26 minutes unfinished. Total bliss zone going into Possum. I think if you. If you add that simple and then a huge Bowie after that, a lot of people are going to talk about it.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, fair. All right, what else you guys got?

[Megan]

What did you have?

[Brian]

I'll just go quick here and I'll combine segments here because this is another release I want to do. 11:28, night one of Worcester. I think similar to what Meg was saying about 12 11, this is kind of the perfect fall 97 show. You've got curtain, huge big yam in set one, big maze, 10 minute black eyed Katie set two. Though this is another one of those fluid sets. Timber, Limb by limb, Slave Ghost, Johnny B. Goode. The encore you can get out of Miss Traffic. But I think that there should be a Worcesterbox at release. I think we have. There's enough evidence here that should be heard. The gym being so massive that we Talked about the 1130 Wolfmans, I think we all think deserves a review from fans. But I know this show specifically, it's in soundboard quality, so we already have a good quality of it. But there is something that does happen when a good show is released officially. It gets that kind of parade online. And if you have Live Fish, it's easy to access. You know, maybe they officially release it and you get a nice CD box set of it. But I think that this definitely, this 1126 and the last weekend should complement this tour nicely with official releases.

[Megan]

Yeah, I love that choice. That Ghost is a perfect, like, tight space, funky, and then dropping into silence and playing with dynamics. It's a really great trajectory of that jam. And the Yam is just like funk groove heaven. I'll take that shit any day. I'm into all the other stuff too, but just place me into that funk. Like, that's. It's so good. I also think my choice for the Live Fish release was doing the last three shows too. That was kind of what I was thinking too, but this is cool too. I hadn't thought about that. I like the Wister box at anym.

[RJ]

The second set of that 1128 show is those four songs you get get. It's like so stacked, but it. Everything's a little bit different. Like the timber fast shredding the limb by limb is like slightly, slightly lighter but not less intense. And then you get this beautiful slave and then like a really serious groove with Ghosts. It's a really amazing. It's an amazing combination.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's like perfect, right? It's like every piece that you'd want.

[RJ]

Yeah. What. What do you got, Megan?

[Megan]

I mean, I think that we've talked about, you know, we've talked a lot about the shows that I wanted to talk about. I think the one. We haven't talked fully about the Denver show, but we've talked about a lot of the other shows that I wanted to talk about. I do think that they've released a lot of these excellent shows, but I think talking a little bit more about the Denver show just because it is. To me, this is like you just buckle up and you just let them take you on like a perfect ride. There's just nothing else you need to do but just like buckle up and go on this ride of this show with this 18 minute tweezer to open up just funk heaven. You've got the ghost, which we talked a lot about. The fire, which just absolutely shreds. And then the set too is really interesting. Down with Disease, Olivia's Pool. Johnny B. Goode into the Denver Jam, which Brian talked about earlier. And then Jesus just left Chicago into Circus. And then the encore has that super funky yam which. Which I think Net calls it overrated, but I think it's great. There's great textures. Gets really quiet. It's nice.

[Brian]

What the NET shade that we do.

[Megan]

I know.

[Brian]

We love you guys out there. We love you so much.

[RJ]

What's your favorite show of the tour, guys? That was a question from a list from a viewer favorite show earlier. Yeah, I'm gonna. Yeah, here we go. Luke Meyer. It's hard.

[Megan]

I think it's. I think it's Rochester for me.

[RJ]

Wow. Wow.

[Brian]

I think I'd go with Hampton Night one.

[RJ]

Hampton, Night one.

[Megan]

How about you?

[RJ]

I mean, it's impossible to answer. There's too many.

[Megan]

What was your favorite show of the shows that you picked up?

[RJ]

Too many Children. I mean, Dayton was the most memorable show. It's probably the most memorable show I've ever seen.

[Megan]

Really?

[RJ]

Yeah. I think I remember the whole I mean, I remember everything, and I don't always remember everything. It shows, regardless of what it. What Megan makes me take. Just kidding. That would never happen. I mean, I think. I think my favorite show is probably the. Probably the Palace. I mean, I think, like, that. Yeah, the. With the Antelope Golgi Antelope opener. And then you like the gin and the foam. There's a maze in there that's great. But the second set is just, like, you didn't even really need the piper toward the end of the set that, you know, but this raging space into, like, a mellow, you know, place that it goes into Sleeping Monkey. And then Tweezer Reprise. It was just. That was just a perfect. Perfect show. Perfect show. So I guess really is. I guess that's. I guess that's it for me. But it's so hard. They're so. They're all so good. I mean, there's like two. There's like two shows probably that I would. That I wouldn't listen to on a regular basis from this whole tour.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's kind of how it. How it shakes out. I feel like there's so many.

[Brian]

Well, it's one of those, like, this is the tour I've listened to the most, both in terms of, like, quantity of just random jams, but also, like, listening projects. Like, there have been multiple times where I'm like, you know what? I'll spend the next month just listening to a fall 97 show each day on its anniversary. Why not? You know?

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And even I'm gonna take heat for this. But I would not say that about all of next week's tour, which is a controversial take on next week's tour and a potential reason why the fans were right and we were wr. I don't. I think we were right for reasons we will share next week. But this is the tour where, like, you can just. When you start listening to it, you start anticipating things and you start. Oh, wait, but this sound is going to come back in this jam three shows later, and, oh, wait, they're going to start to sound like this, and then that's going to be. Reflect. There's just. There's so much to take in here.

[Megan]

And there's so many moments that you like that are just so iconic, like banter or. Or just jams or vibes or segues or things that just. Yeah, they're. They're kind of unforgettable because they're so specific to this time and. And it's just mastery. This is just. Yeah. Top of their game. I mean, we're top two tour, you know, like, this is. Yeah, it doesn't get much better than this. And it's debatable if it does get better. We'll see next week.

[RJ]

We're gonna find. Yeah, next week is the number one tour. Number one ranked tour of all time according to HF pod. According to team HF pod. It was ranked number two by fans, right?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

It's one and two.

[Brian]

Yeah, we swapped them.

[RJ]

It's okay.

[Megan]

It's the tour that I've seen. I've seen a lot. I saw a lot of these shows, but I saw the beginning part of the tour, which is a little sad. Yeah, we're talking about fall 95 and it's fucking awesome. It was still amazing. And the memories of this tour actually are so embedded in me because I was a freshman in college. So. RJ, your time and your memories of fall 97 are very much aligned with my time and memories of fall 95. Because there's just something about being 18, being out on your own for the first time, and going and seeing fish whenever you want. It's just. It's. There's something really magical about that. So that's what this tour is for me. So I'm excited.

[Brian]

I have no memories of it because I was still in diapers and there's.

[Megan]

No chip on your shoulder about that? Zero.

[RJ]

I just. I want to say thank you to everyone who has listened to this series. We'll. We'll say more like you know great things about all about this series later. But thank you guys for hanging here with us. We're going to be back, back. We're gonna go live next Wednesday, if you can believe it. We have less than a week to get our thoughts together for fall 95, which was 600 shows. So we gotta start now.

[Megan]

I'll be starting tonight.

[RJ]

Starting tonight. I think that's it, guys.

[Brian]

I think that's it.

[RJ]

That's it.

[Megan]

We did it.

[RJ]

Thank you, everybody. Thanks for everybody in the chat too. Good to see you all. We'll see you all next week.

[Megan]

Thanks, everybody.

[Brian]

See you guys. Welcome to us talking about our podcast for a minute.

[RJ]

What's the name of that podcast?

[Brian]

That's Ax to Grind. And right now you're going to be getting a little, little taste of it. Right down to the shaky microphone all.

[RJ]

And my name's Bob.

[Brian]

And my name is Patrick. And usually we're joined by Tom.

[RJ]

Tom's the best. Tom has a real grown up job that requires him to be at work, but we talk about decidedly not so.

[Brian]

Grown up things like hardcore music and things that people that like hardcore music tend to like.

[RJ]

So that could be the latest shows revisiting classic material, talking about the new classics, all the little dorm room nonsense that you imagine from niche music podcasts that you either love, want to love or hate.

[Brian]

Yeah, imagine all the emotions that you have towards the genre that that has impacted your life and then condense them down to an hour to two hours a week.

[RJ]

So triangulate your speakers, think about jumping off the bed, singing along, dancing like an idiot and listen to Axle Grind Podcast. Hey everyone, this is Tuck from Fit.

[Brian]

For a King, an off road minivan.

[RJ]

Every week I bring you fun interviews.

[Brian]

Alongside your favorite metalcore entertainers with my.

[RJ]

New podcast, Get Tucked.

[Brian]

Join me every Monday with bands like Counterparts, Crystal Lake, Like Moths to Flames, and many more. We play unsigned and undiscovered bands, deep.

[RJ]

Dive into each artist's history and of.

[Brian]

Course provide the greatest breakdowns in current metalcore. Tune in to Get Tucked every Monday out now through Sound Talent Media.