Top 25 Tours — #4 — Summer 1998

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast: Top 25 Tours — #4 — Summer 1998

Hosted by Osiris Media, released on November 18, 2024

The Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod) delves deep into the music and fan experience surrounding Phish, offering insightful analyses, interviews, and reviews of their shows and tours. In Episode #4 of the "Top 25 Tours" series, the hosts explore Phish's Summer 1998 tour, ranked as the fourth best by both fans and the hosts themselves.

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Introduction to the Summer 1998 Tour

The episode kicks off with a heated debate among the hosts regarding Haley's comment from the Deer Creek show, where Brian asserts that "the Haley's comment from August 3, 1998, is the best second song jam that they've ever played" ([01:34]). Megan challenges this bold claim, expressing skepticism about its accuracy ([02:00]).

Key Highlights of the Tour

Iconic Performances and Setlists

The Summer 1998 tour is celebrated for its dynamic setlists and memorable performances. One standout moment discussed is the Rhinoceros cover, Phish's only rendition of the Smashing Pumpkins' track. Megan praises this cover for its wildness and unpredictability, stating, "I never thought they would play Smashing Pumpkins. That's just... That's crazy" ([20:47]).

Another significant performance is the Ramble On into Slave to the Traffic Light segue. Brian lauds this transition, describing it as "one of my favorite jams of the entire tour" with a seamless blend that "drips into Slave to the Traffic Light" ([22:20]).

Notable Jams and Musical Explorations

The hosts dive into specific jams that defined the tour:

• Runaway Gym from Starlake: Megan highlights this jam for its "stretching and searching hopefulness," emphasizing its effortless exploration and melodic intrigue ([34:07]).

• The Ghost and Ambient Jams: Brian discusses the "Ambient Jam," comparing it to other legendary jams like "Tower" and "Woodlands," and appreciates its "hypnotic groove" and collaborative texture ([48:24]).

• Trey Anastasio's Guitar Work: The episode commends Trey's guitar playing, noting his "buttery" and "clear" tone that complements the band's ambient and funk influences ([25:22]).

Themes of the Summer 1998 Tour

The hosts identify three primary themes that encapsulate the essence of the Summer 1998 tour:

1. Living in the Moment: Phish embraced spontaneity and improvisation, allowing their performances to flow organically. This approach is evident in their "horizontal jams," which maintain forward momentum without the traditional peaks and troughs of earlier versions.

2. Looking Back: The band incorporated covers and older songs into their setlists, paying homage to their influences like The Grateful Dead and Led Zeppelin. This retrospective element added depth and meaning to their performances.

3. Loosening the Reins: Having mastered their reinvention from previous tours, Phish felt less pressured to constantly innovate. This resulted in a more relaxed and ambient sound, allowing for greater collaboration among band members without the constraints of perfection.

Megan encapsulates these themes by stating, "When reinvention feels less like a necessity, it comes more organically... [Phish] have mastered the reinvention from '95 to '97... they're just able to deliver on such a high level" ([90:04]).

Personal Takeaways and Conclusions

Brian draws a parallel between Phish's tour progression and Michael Jordan's basketball career, suggesting that Summer 1998 represents a peak where the band enjoys its success without the intense pressure of needing to prove themselves ([25:04]). He concludes that this tour is "the best follow-up tour the band has ever had," highlighting the balance between fun and experimentation ([87:21]).

Megan echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the organic evolution of Phish's sound and the band's ability to "listen to each other" and collaborate effectively. She notes that this laid the foundation for their future "millennial sound" ([90:01]).

RJ adds that the tour showcases Phish's ability to evolve mid-tour, with their sound becoming more ambient and less driven by the necessity to reinvent themselves continually. This adaptability ensures that their performances remain fresh and engaging ([91:24]).

Favorite Shows and Underrated Performances

The hosts share their favorite shows from the Summer 1998 tour, highlighting specific performances that stand out:

• Riverport Show: Praised for its "unstoppable pace" and intricate jams, particularly the Bathtub Gin performance, which is considered one of the best jam vehicles Phish has ever played. Brian remarks, "It's legendary for a reason. So good" ([60:21]).

• Deer Creek Show: Celebrated for its emotional depth, especially the segue from Ramble On to Slave to the Traffic Light, which intertwines Phish's emulation of jazz influences like John Coltrane's A Love Supreme ([44:55]).

• Starlake Valley and Virginia Beach Shows: While initially underrated, Megan and Brian defend these performances for their unique flow and memorable moments, such as the Terrapin Station rendition and the impactful Hood to Baby Elephant Walk encore ([76:50], [82:14]).

Recommendations for Official Releases

The discussion culminates in a strong recommendation for the official release of several shows from the Summer 1998 tour. The hosts believe that key performances like Deer Creek, Riverport, Lemon Wheel, and Vernon Downs should be boxed together for their exceptional jams and thematic significance. Megan adds enthusiasm for these releases, noting their "perfect encapsulation" of the tour's vibe ([85:51]).

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Conclusion

The Summer 1998 Phish tour stands out as a pinnacle of the band's ability to blend fun, experimentation, and musical mastery. Through memorable setlists, intricate jams, and organic evolution, Phish not only captivated their audience but also set the stage for future reinventions. The hosts of HFPod commend this tour for its balance of high-energy performances and contemplative moments, making it a beloved chapter in Phish's storied history.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian: "The Summer 1998 tour is the celebration post reinvention, and there's almost no other Fish tour like it." ([14:00])

• Megan: "When reinvention feels less like a necessity, it comes more organically. And I think that they feel less pressure." ([90:01])

• RJ: "The sound changes and becomes something else in the midst of a tour, which I think is pretty awesome to hear." ([91:24])

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For fans eager to relive the magic of Phish's Summer 1998 tour or discover it for the first time, this episode of Helping Friendly Podcast offers a comprehensive and passionate exploration of one of the band's most celebrated tours.

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Brian]

Osiris.

[RJ]

Wow. All right. Well, if you could only have heard what happened before we went live. But now we are live.

[Megan]

It wasn't a hot take. You're right, Brian. It was just a intense language. Should we say that?

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Okay.

[Brian]

I mean, maybe a little bit too intense for you guys out there. I don't know. Who knows? I'm just here to talk about the Haley's comment from Deer Creek. It's the greatest second song jam the band has ever played. Someone's gonna come at me with Baker's lawn boy, and I don't think that that is accurate.

[Megan]

Well, that's a. That's a bold take right there.

[RJ]

Can you repeat that? I was trying to get people to watch us, but I didn't pay attention.

[Brian]

That the Haley's comment from August 3, 1998, I would argue without doing any research, right now, is the best second song jam that they've ever played.

[Megan]

I just don't know off the top of my head, but it seems wrong.

[RJ]

There's just. Just given the trend of playing, just the trend of playing the song before the jam, which they do all the time now.

[Brian]

Like in the second set, not in the first set.

[Megan]

Okay.

[Brian]

The second song of the show, they open the show, which is also one of the best openers that they've ever played. Rhinoceros. The only time they've ever covered it.

[RJ]

We're gonna talk about it. All right. We're not even shooting intro. We're not even doing the intro. Okay, let's talk about 83. Just skip the whole podcast and go straight to this. Haley's comment. We can keep it to five minutes.

[Brian]

It's a really good show. Have you guys listened to it in. It's an amazing show.

[Megan]

Recently. Kind of recently, yeah, me too.

[RJ]

I mean, definitely recently. Okay, we got.

[Brian]

Do you remember the story in the Farmer's Almanac about that show? Sorry.

[RJ]

Why don't you tell it to us?

[Megan]

No. What is that?

[Brian]

Why don't you. Why don't you tell it to us now? Why don't you tell me what movie you want to see so I forget the guy who wrote it. I could probably get it. It's right behind me. But it would take a lot of lifting and whatever. One of the editors of the Farmers Almanac, his. And I'm paraphrasing, so if I get any of this totally incorrect. Don't come at me with your accusations of. I'm paraphrasing all this. One of the editors. I think it's Kevin Castles.

[RJ]

Yeah, that's right. I'm here to fact check. You. Go ahead.

[Brian]

You are. Okay. Because this story has always had a huge impact on me and this show and blah, blah, blah. His brother committed suicide, I think the year before. And when they found him in his car, there was. There was one tape, and it was the Smashing Pumpkins Gish, their first album. And the song Rhinoceros was playing, or it had been playing anyway, fast forward, obviously, a huge, awful, extreme, intense moment for him and his family. Fast forward a year or so. He goes to Deer Creek, Fish plays a good show. The night. The first night, second night, they open with Rhinoceros. And he, as he tells it, I believe, has like, finally, like, the grief hits him, and he has, like, everything. Everything comes to, you know, he falls, he sits down, he starts crying. His friends are there, give him huge hugs. They all know the significance of it. Total shock. Nobody ever thought that they would ever cover this on. And then they followed up with Haley's comment, and his reaction is, it's the happiest Fish song ever. And so it, like, helped to bring him out of everything he was dealing with. Well, not, you know, made him, in that moment, have kind of a. A moment of clarity, looking forward, as I recall reading. And then it goes into this incredible jam with a segment based off of A Love supreme. And it segues into. I didn't know of all songs. It's just this incredible 30 minutes to open a fish. So that also is tied to this fan who did excellent work on the Farmer's Almanac. Very personal Story for him always has hit me really hard. The power of music, if you will. I think we can end the podcast there.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, there we go. I remember reading that on Mostly True. Yeah, that's really moving.

[Brian]

Mostly True.

[Megan]

He fact checked you live.

[RJ]

Okay. Megan, what is happening with. With your New York City based video interview empire and concerts?

[Megan]

It's a busy week this week. Thanks for asking. Rj, I just put out a new moment with Meg. I interviewed Louisa Stanchoff, who is a singer, songwriter who lives in Maine. She is amazing. Has my top three album of the year. She's an incredible, incredible talent and it was really awesome. You know, when you really love an album, to get the opportunity to sit down with someone and talk to them about it, it just felt really special. So we got to talk when she was in Brooklyn last month and I put that out today. So if you get a chance. It's just a little bit. It's just a moment, you know, check it out. And then this weekend, it's kind of a big weekend here in New York. On Saturday night, I'm seeing Lamp at the Brooklyn Bowl. A lot of friends I know are going to be there. It's going to be really fun. And those guys absolutely rip. So if you've not seen them, you should come check them out. And then on Sunday, I'm going to see Goose play at MSG the first time, which is crazy.

[Brian]

That's a moment with some other people.

[Megan]

A few other people will be there, like someone named Trey, someone named Dave, someone named Susan. Some other people.

[RJ]

Yeah. I just want to say that I mentioned the interview that the guys did with Rick from Corner of Gray street about Dave Matthews. And they, at the end, they talk about, like, whether, like, what he would play with Dave Matthews, you know, and he's like, I've never gotten to play with him. And this was like, it's happening this week, so I bet it'll happen.

[Megan]

Yeah, that'll be really.

[RJ]

And they better play bartender or I'm. Or I'm gonna be pissed.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

It almost makes two sense. Too much sense for them to play together, you know?

[RJ]

Like, I don't understand what that means.

[Brian]

Like, it's just like. Like, it's. It's.

[RJ]

Can it just make the perfect amount of sense?

[Brian]

It's the sounds crossover so well that, like, I could almost see them, like, avoiding it because it feels like it's. It's interesting. It's too good.

[Megan]

Yeah. I'm confused. So many people. Right?

[Brian]

Right.

[Megan]

There's so many people playing. I just I'm confused at like, who's gonna play with who or if there's just gonna be like 55 people on the stage at all times playing. I don't know.

[RJ]

That might happen. That might.

[Brian]

Those are always fun.

[RJ]

Yeah. I want to tell you guys that there are. We have four Reprise shows coming up that I want everyone to know about. We have Northampton, Massachusetts on 12 19. I'm gonna be there. And then there are three shows in Connecticut in January. That's not true. There's one show in Connecticut in January at Park City Music Hall. We're also playing at Soundcheck Studios in Pembroke, Mass. And. And then at the it called Stone church in Newmarket, New Hampshire. Classic venue.

[Megan]

Oh, cool.

[RJ]

Three night run, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So check out repriseband.com and check out those shows in the northeast. And for those of you who have asked, yes, we will figure out how to get to the Midwest as. As. As they need to do.

[Brian]

We really got to do something in Colorado. We have.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Yes. That has to happen.

[Brian]

I don't know if you were aware of this, but there are a lot of jam van fans out here and just a few of us. And there's a pre. Pretty big one moving out in January who will. Will go crazy.

[RJ]

Well, interesting. Well, I. I also. I just want to say, Brian, that we are. I won't say anything because it's not announced yet, but Megan and I are trying to get you to come to New York for Reprise's first New York City show, which is going to be in March. That's all I'm going to say right now because it's going to be awesome. So, you know, there's gonna be more stuff.

[Brian]

Getting my permission slip signed and. Yeah. New York. Right around my birthday. Right around your birthday, rj.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

There's nothing like early March on the east coast or Midwest. It is just the most beautiful time.

[Megan]

So nice.

[Brian]

Just mountains of brown snow.

[RJ]

Yep.

[Brian]

Really like great wind and rain just like pelting you in the face.

[RJ]

Love it.

[Brian]

But, you know, also like $99 slices of pizza everywhere. So I'm into it.

[Megan]

Really good Korean food. Be great. We'll have a great time and we'll get to see Reprise in a really great venue here in New York City. Should be awesome.

[Brian]

Do I have an email?

[Megan]

We can do a live HF pod.

[RJ]

You could give input on the show. Input.

[Brian]

Oh, oh, okay. Input.

[Megan]

Maybe we need. Maybe you need to let him pick the show so he'll actually come out. This is a good bargaining tool.

[Brian]

But a live HF Pod is a really good call. I think that we should. We should do a draft episode in person and see.

[Megan]

Oh, my God, that would be so stressful for me. I'm into it.

[RJ]

That would be really fun. Um, okay, so EV dude is on. On. In on the chat on YouTube. So good to see you. Um, no one else is commenting right now. Be sure to get in with your comments. But I also. We have no voicemails this week. We have no new Apple podcast reviews. We have no new premium members. And I just want to know, like, what did we do? What did we do?

[Megan]

Nobody loves us.

[RJ]

Does anyone love us? Give us reviews.

[Brian]

Right now that people are using their podcasting time in other means trying to figure out what's happening in the world and if everything's going to be okay and if the news that they read is realistic or if it's like, wait, are you guys playing a joke? I think that they walk back, like, middle. Yeah, at some point we will. Great point. I think they're all going to come back around the holidays and be like, whoa, there's like, five new top five tour or top tour episodes from HF Pod. I'm just going to binge this because I've given up all hope.

[Megan]

Yeah. And, you know, a lot of people have been commenting on how much they love the series, and now that we're on Blue sky, which is apparently the new place to be, a lot of people have been commenting on, you know, how excited they are about these episodes and the podcast. So if those people would just leave a review, that would be super cool. It doesn't take long, guys. It'd be really cool.

[RJ]

It doesn't.

[Brian]

I tried to leave a review, and they said you can't leave a review of your own podcast. I'm sorry, sir.

[Megan]

They kicked you out.

[Brian]

We are a country or a company of ethics and morals here.

[RJ]

Yeah. Okay. So the. The show.

[Megan]

Are you okay, rj?

[RJ]

This is so ridiculous. The tour we're talking about is Summer 98. It's the number four tour ranked by fans, the number four tour ranked by us. It's cosmic alignment. And it's kind of funny because we had a text exchange about this today, and if I. If you asked me to name the top 10 fish tours of all time with no paper or Internet, I would not name this tour. But as I was listening to the tour, and apparently I'm the one who chose it, so I was good.

[Megan]

And I thought I did. I apologize for it on the chat.

[RJ]

I know Brian knows the Alonzo Morning Jeff, I don't know if you do, Megan, but this. The whole. This tour, listening to this tour was like one slow Alonzo morning where you're.

[Megan]

Like, you have to explain what that means.

[RJ]

It's basically like going from going from kind of disagreement to, like, you have a point. All in, one.

[Brian]

In one, reluctant, like, yeah, man, you got a good point.

[RJ]

It's in. But he's, like, on the sidelines, just sitting by himself and clearly going through something that is making him feel that way, which is. It's just a funny thing. I'll send it to you, but I. But it's so fun. This. This tour is so fun. The music is unstoppable. There's a lot of, like, enthusiasm, and there's a lot of exploration. It really, like, I. I'm. I'm now around to the fact that this is the number four ranked tour. I think. I think we can make the case for it. We already have, but the fans. The fans spoke, too, so we're. We're kind of in alignment. But I guess. Brian, is this. Should this be where we ranked it?

[Brian]

I think if I made my own personal list, I would not have this at number four, but I would definitely have it in the top 10. This is the celebration post reinvention, and there's almost no other Fish tour like it. It's. It's not like they're trying to. They're playing in a new style compared to the last year, but it's more like they've, like, they've sanded down the edges of this, like, very angular, noisy, scrunchy, kind of aggressive, funky sound into something really pretty. Plus, you mix covers, great set lists, really fluid jamming throughout each show. Those three things combined, you can't really find a detractor on. So I'll get into this a little bit when we talk about the themes. I mean, yes, I think that this is definitely ranked 3, 4 tours too high. But I also think there is an argument to be made that when you're having this much fun and you're hitting at such a high batting average, even if you're not taking as many risks as the year before or if certain bad habits are starting to seep in, how do you argue against the way Trey sounds? The covers, the jams? I mean, come on.

[Megan]

Yeah, I. It's interesting because when I think about 98, I really think the tour that was the most important this year is the Island Tour. But obviously we're not talking about it because it's a run.

[Brian]

But.

[Megan]

But that Tour to me.

[Brian]

More on that later.

[Megan]

Massively important and definitely when the sound changed for them and a flip was just switched in that tour. And this tour takes what they found there, you know, takes this transition between the funk reinvention and the millennial sound and really plays with it in a way that's really cool. You know, you can hear the funk, like, dripping away. And by the end of the tour, it's barely there. I mean, it's there, but they're not, like, hitting anything anymore. It's much more, like, ambient. And, you know, by the ambient jam, they're pretty much, like, deeply in those weeds. It's just. It's really interesting to listen back to. But after listening to, like, 97 summer, like, this is. That's a way better tour. Just more consistent, more evolution throughout the tour. This one just doesn't have that consistency. Like, there's so many unbelievable moments. And like you said, Brian, I totally agree that Trey's tone is just, like, incredible. The fun covers, all of the interesting set listing, but it definitely doesn't have that consistency of. There's not. Out of the 22 shows, half of them are really good, and there are a few that are just like, okay.

[RJ]

Megan, I want to ask you more about 98. I just want to say hi to Alex, who said he's watching from the UK. It's 9:49pm oh, yeah.

[Megan]

That's awesome.

[RJ]

Love to see you here.

[Megan]

So great.

[Brian]

He got to his first fish shows at Dick's this year. Does anyone currently have a higher batting average of fish shows? Like, yeah, you know, kicking things off.

[Megan]

I know. Just retired.

[Brian]

Amazing stuff.

[Megan]

Anything else? That's awesome.

[RJ]

Megan, is there anything else we need to know about 1998?

[Megan]

Yeah, let's go through that really quickly, and then, you know, we can get into the meatier stuff. But obviously, like I mentioned, we have the tour in the spring, and then the band spends the rest of the spring and early summer laying down the tracks and finishing up Story of the Ghost. Then they do nine shows in Europe in the start of June. And then the US Summer tour that we are talking about today starts out west, goes down to Texas, the Midwest, Southeast, and the Northeast a little bit. And then it ends, of course, at lemon wheel for 80,000 people up in Maine. And there are 22 shows and 98 entries and the jam chart shows. So 4.45 jams for show. But to be honest, I think that's a little bit beefed up. I don't know if it's just because the Jams are shorter. But when I look at how many, like, really amazing jams are on this tour, it's a lot less than that. A lot less.

[RJ]

I think there's a lot of. I think there's a lot of skippable content in this tour. I think there's a lot of, like, first set kind of like standard stuff that, like, you. I've listened to probably four shows of the tour, like, all the way through, and they're fun, you know, like, they flow well and. And Trey is. Well, and talk about Trey in a minute. But I think, like, there's a lot of stuff in these tour. In these. In this tour that's like you can kind of pass over.

[Brian]

Yeah. I think in a lot of ways this is the start of. We're going to have some really high moments and some duds and for the next 15ish years, that's going to kind of be the norm for Fish when they're playing.

[Megan]

Dang.

[Brian]

I mean, I've always thought of 98 as kind of like the. Especially Fall. That, to me, is the. The first 2.0 tour. But this tour, it seems like a band that is having way more fun than they are, like, deeply trying to achieve a new sound. And so they're kind of relying on what has worked. And so it's new, but it's not shocking. But to both of your points, and I want to shout out Ev dude's comment here. I often like to think about what would happen if 7 28, 98, set two is played today. I'm gonna read to you 7 28, 98, set two, and just tell me your immediate thoughts. It goes like this. The Wedge. Poor Heart fades into Mango. Song fades into Brother Contact fades in a Maze. Prince Caspian. You Enjoy myself.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

What's the first word about that set that comes to mind?

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. There's no. There's not like a real. There's not a real anchor there, you know?

[Brian]

No, no, it. It really kind of to me is like this is anti flow.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

This is just throwing songs out, seeing what happens and you get that.

[Megan]

Yeah, there are.

[Brian]

Yeah. Like, even they've officially released like 8, 198 from Alpine Valley, which has an incredible start to the show and amazing tweezer. But the second set begins with Piper Wilson 2001, Magia 2001. You get the tweezer, you get a fluff head. Then Brian Robert, Albuquerque, Chalk Dust, Frankenstein. Now, I like a lot of those songs. Yeah, but that's not really, like, a fluid set with, like, cohesive ideas compared to, say, like, Gorge Night two. That shows the peak of this band during this era.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Yeah. A lot less consistency.

[RJ]

What was your. What's your favorite cover of the tour, Megan?

[Megan]

My favorite cover. I mean, probably the Rhinoceros cover. Probably the Rhinoceros cover. Just because it's so wild. Like, I never thought they would play Smashing Pumpkins. That's just. That's crazy. I loved that they were kind of living in the moment, like, playing current songs at this time. I think that that's something that's really interesting they doing on this tour, and it taps into something I want to talk about when we talk about the theme. But that is such a crazy song for them to play. Just. I just never thought they would play a song like that. And, I mean, of course, like, you know, obviously playing Terrapin Station is, like, a huge deal, but I do think it makes that show seem a lot better than it is because that moment is so amazing and just so emotional for so many people who. Especially 98. But even now, I think so many people made their way to Fish through the Grateful Dead. And so, obviously, whenever Fish plays a Grateful Dead song, it is a fucking huge deal, and I've never seen it happen, and I would honestly lose my mind. But I do think that show is a little bit overrated because of that.

[Brian]

It's a far cry right now from not knowing if they'd ever play the Grateful Dead to Phil Ash passes Away, and everyone's making bets on what night that weekend they're gonna play Box of Rain.

[RJ]

Yeah, it's true.

[Brian]

I think I would go with Ramble On. Oh, the two versions are outstanding.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

The second version is unbelievable. I mean, the second version is one of my favorite jams of the entire tour. We'll talk about it. The way it just, like, drips into Slave to the Traffic Light. But the first one, even without the jam, is such a shock. And you can just hear, if you ever been to Alpine Valley, like, when. When the Cheers come, they just ripple up the side of the mountain, which I haven't seen Cheers in that venue in probably 10 years now, because there was not. There was nary a cheer in 22. No cheers. Just polite golf claps the whole. The whole weekend. No, but, like, when they start. When people start realizing that they're playing Ramble on, and then Paige comes in. His voice is just perfect for it. They Dr. Into it, and then you get a mic song to follow like that. That is Fish knowing in the moment. Perfect cover, perfect execution, perfect follow up song. Like, you just. What a way to start a show.

[Megan]

Oh my God, that second version's so good.

[RJ]

Yeah, it is. Okay, so themes.

[Megan]

What about you, rj? What's your favorite cover?

[Brian]

You just skip it.

[Megan]

Yeah, Come on.

[RJ]

I was just gonna skip it. No, I mean, I think the. The Rhinoceros is so good. It's really hard to not like there's some. There's some kind of bad covers on this tour, let's be honest. Like, there's something that. Well, but I mean, I think the. I mean, I was there for the Terrapin station, so, you know, that's like, that's just. What a special, crazy, amazing, amazing night. You know? So I'll just. I. I will say that, but I'll talk about that in a little bit in. As it relates to that show. But I, I think that's. I mean that's the. That is the memory of the tour for me. I saw some shows on this tour, but just. Man, I mean, it was outrageous. Really outrageous. Okay, themes. I. I just want to touch quickly on Trey's playing in this tour, which we probably will talk about throughout. But they have four examples that I wrote down just as I was listening of him being like in total control of the jams, which is just outrageous. The 7 17, 2001, the Riverport gin, obviously the August 2nd Reba, and this Caspian from August 6th, which I think is Atlanta. That those are like four. Like, he's just so out front in. In a lot of this tour and just absolutely like on top of everything. Guitar wise, it's just. It's really amazing. And maybe the last. Maybe 99 had some of that. But this is kind of like the peak of. Of Trey really being in control, playing wise, and not like stepping back as much, but I think he's starting to step.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think there's like that almost like a hangover from the like, dexterity of the mid-90s of his just being completely like on top of his craft. He still has that, like, despite the partying and the, the loosening up and the playfulness, he's still, like, he's still there.

[Brian]

It's also my favorite tone he's ever played in every note. Just sounds. I mean, it's just like. It's buttery. It's so just. But it's also very clear. I don't know. It's. It. You just. It's. It's like a bell when you hear it, but then it just. He slides up and down the neck of the guitar. There's nothing that sounds really staccato y throughout it. It just flows in such a dreamlike way when, when you get into some of these jams, I mean like the ramble on that we're talking about from 8:12, they're like descending riff he does and it just complements what Paige can do on the roads, what Mike is doing at that point. Fishman, who has really learned how to play with a lot of silence at this point in time. I don't know, it's just. It's the best I feel like I've ever heard him sound. You know, aside from like the mid-90s peak, which more on in a couple episodes. But like it's just, just beautiful stuff. I have a sports related theme about this too.

[RJ]

Yes.

[Brian]

Could I potentially share that?

[RJ]

About time. Okay.

[Brian]

I Hope I get 25 minutes in. About time. RJ's gonna get this.

[RJ]

Probably only Brian. By the way, do you like that I'm sporting this hat for the, the ab, the team with the worst record in the NBA.

[Brian]

You really need to start thinking about the expectations around the Sixers when you became a fan versus where they are today. It's a troubling sign. I'm starting to go through it with my, with my English football club, so I understand the feeling. So try to keep up with me here, guys. All right. This is, this is, this is at some point in high school, at some point in high school I tracked out Fish's career in comparison to Michael Jordan's career. I don't have that explicitly but like not surprised me. I've a looser comparison here. So there's an argument that 1993 and 1994 fish are kind of the conference finals moments, you know, for, for the band. They get, they reach these peaks, you know, but they're not quite over the top. Putting a pin in that because I have a lot of different things to say about fall 94 next week than I thought going in. But there's a lot of still growth happening. Okay. And you know, it's, it's, it's like a, a really exciting basketball team that loses one round short of going to the finals. You know, like they, they, they're there, you know, it. You believed it all season. There were moments where you allowed yourself to think this team can win a title and then it doesn't happen. And when you look back in hindsight, it, it's. It retrospectively makes sense. But the 1995 is the first title. It's this like everything comes together and they just dominate. And I think like the 1991 Chicago Bulls in this sort of standpoint where like the entire team clicked and they lost two games, the entire playoffs, nobody was beating, they were just steamrolling then. Usually what happens to a team that reaches that level is they take a step back. This did not happen in the Chicago Bulls. But there's a step back. The disease of me sets in. Certain guys want to contract, other guys say, hey, I played a huge role on this team last year. I won us a title. Give me the rock. It's like, no, no, dude, you're like a nine point a game player. We need your assists, we need your rebound. Stop trying to hog the ball. And that messes with the team. So they kind of lose next year. That's 1996 for fish. 97. This is like the 1992 title that the Bulls had. It's full arrival domination from the start of the season to the end. There's no moment in between. Summer 98. This is another surefire title. But this feels a little bit more blissful because there's no stress. You know how good this team is. You know that they're capable of winning on every night. As a result. They take a few nights off that they shouldn't take that a year earlier they wouldn't have taken. There would not be Bonner Springs show in summer 1990. You know, there would not be what it like Atlanta and Raleigh, these kind of just like slightly off nights where it's still good if you went. You got like the, the vibes. But the band just didn't totally have it those nights. So there's not as much stress this year. It's more just joy. And it's just soaking in the fact that right now you are watching one of the best bands that has ever played or one of the best teams that has ever played. And you're far past that. Like, like you, you have the capability of turning games off and checking out his shows because you're like, I know, I know that it's gonna end well. I know that they're gonna win it all this year. And they ultimately do. I mean, this is a great overall year of Fish. They play one of their best New Year's Eve shows that they've ever played this year later on. And this tour overall is fantastic, but it doesn't have that like we're gunning down everyone right now on our way. So I'll step back, let you guys comment on that. Meg, if I missed anything From a sports data point. Please share.

[Megan]

I totally followed that. I totally got it. Yeah, it totally makes sense to me.

[RJ]

Yep.

[Megan]

I think that's, for me, like, one takeaway from this, which is, like, the end of the show. But I really do think when you have to reinvent yourself the first time, you don't know if you can do it. Once you've done it, you're like, oh, we can do that. We just did it. You know, I think there's, like, a reinvention and evolution. The second time around is so much easier because you know you can do it. Which also makes you less hungry and less desperate, which I think is the huge thing about 97 is that they felt that. 96. I like that. The Disease of Me. That's cool. I've never heard that before. That's like, an. A cool thing to think about and how that eventually kind of comes into the fish universe. But that's really cool. And I do think that that's really what happens in this year. And I think that it kind of relates to my theme. So I had these. This idea that for them, they're thinking about moving forward as, like, three main things. Living in the moment is, like, something they learned that you have to do. Right. That's kind of like what the funk taught them. You have to, like, work together and live in the moment. So you've got great improv and jamming in this tour, Great connectedness between the band members. There are some jams that feel, like, telepathic on this tour. Just, like, completely, like, next level. And then they're also playing covers of the moment. Like, they're living in the moment. They're like, we're in the late 90s. Like, these are songs that we're gonna play right now because we're hearing them on the radio. Then the second part of it is looking back. So they're bringing out really old bust outs that they haven't played in a really long time, and then covers that are really meaningful and influential for them. You know, they're playing Zeppelin, Velvet Underground. They're playing the Grateful Dead. Like, they're playing things that saying, like, these are our influences and this is how we can bring them into today, because we're confident enough that we've made our own thing and then finally, like, loosening the reins. They've been so, like, 97 is so tight, and there's so much, like, punch to the funk reinvention. Like you. Like, we were just saying there's such a drive and a hunger for that that now they can kind of loosen that up and move forward in a really loose way. So that's kind of what I think are my main themes, that they're choosing to move forward in those three ways.

[RJ]

I think you guys are both like. Yeah, both, exactly right. And saying, like, the same things in different ways. It's all like, it's great. We're. We're really aligned here for our number.

[Brian]

Four disease of me at this point.

[Megan]

No, there's not.

[Brian]

We are. We are ESP type of stuff. I mean, I think Evie, dude, we've been saying this, but he says this really well. Summer 98 might be the first tour where Fish felt like they didn't need to prove anything to themselves of the audience. I think that's part. I think, like, they've mastered themselves. That reinvention from 95 to 97 is so stark that you can't really come out the next year and be like, we're a totally new band, unless you're King Gizzard. And maybe in hindsight, Trey wishes that they were more like King Gizzard, you know, at least at this point in his life. But Fish was like, it was such a big thing at this point. They were, you know, they're coming back to play huge amphitheaters and play huge arenas, and like, that is a part of the business decisions and calculations they have to make. And it almost. Yeah, it seems like they just wanted to go out there and have a really good time, and they did.

[RJ]

All right, let's talk about some jams. Who wants to start?

[Megan]

I'll start.

[RJ]

I think you should start.

[Megan]

Okay. I want to tell you guys my favorite jam from this whole tour.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Megan]

It's the Runaway Gym from Starlake.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan]

It's amazing. I haven't gone back to this jam in a really long time, but this is composing on the spot. This is just a complete, effortless exploration. It has this really, like, stretching and searching hopefulness to it that I just think is so special. And it's in the middle of this show. It opens up the second set, and they have. Obviously, this is officially released, so everybody knows it, but I just. I just wanted to talk about it. And I know everybody knows it, but it's just so important. They have this Trench Town rock cover, which is fun, and then they do this huge bust out in time. Love is a Hero. Like, this is to be one of the biggest bust outs ever. It's massive. It's like over a thousand shows or something. And then they open this set too. With this runaway gym, which to me, the way that it coasts along. I thought I was reading one of the fish.net reviews and they weren't talking about this jam, but they were talking about 98 in general. And I don't remember who said it, and I apologize, but it was so incredible. They talked about horizontal jamming. I think that's really apt for this tour in that the jams have this forward momentum to them and they don't peak up and down the way vertically jams can, which is how most jams kind of have been in the past and are in the future. I'd say these are really horizontal jams in that they kind of move in this way that feels kind of coasting along. And I think the magic is how they're able to find intrigue and melody on top of ambience and also continue to sound really connected and have a momentum and a pulse to them. And I think this is just a perfect example of that sound.

[Brian]

Like that horizontal jamming.

[Megan]

Isn't that cool?

[Brian]

Yeah, I like that a lot. I. I think this jam rules it. It's interesting to think about Summer 97 has that Shoreline gym. Fall 97 has the Worcester gym. This. This tour has the Star Lake gym. A lot of these gym jams are not necessarily aligned with what the entire tour sounds like. There's a little bit more searching and kind of pushing against the norms of the style they're playing in. But at the same time, you get to that moment, I think it's like 25, 26 minutes in, where it's just, like, hypnotic and it's like this groove that makes no sense. I almost wish that they would clip it, you know, like.

[Megan]

You know, just so weird.

[Brian]

I wish they would clip that and, like, turn that into a song, because I think it could be a really cool bass for a fish song. Add some synths there. Some, like Modern Day Page. But the fact that they find that and then just kind of keep going and it's not. It doesn't lead to a massive peak. I think it speaks both to where the tour is at, but also kind of is one of the rare gems that pushes against the edges of the sound they're playing in.

[RJ]

It's kind of the first. It's kind of the only real, like, monster jam of the tour. Outside of the lines.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Of what's expected. I mean, there's some other great, great jams, but this is just truly, like, truly out there.

[Megan]

I mean, this is kind of the counter to near 35 minutes. I don't think any other jam does.

[Brian]

Yeah, it's kind of the counter to the river portion.

[RJ]

Yeah. Which.

[Brian]

That is like 24 minutes of hose and funk and groove. And this is like, okay, let's see what happens after dark when we jam like that.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

I mentioned last week that this show 8 11, we were not able to obtain any weed anywhere.

[Megan]

Magic to be. Not. Not have weed.

[RJ]

Let's be honest with the Bob Marley debut open.

[Megan]

I know.

[RJ]

That was a fun show. The. The Reba. And that in this. Trey soloing in the Reba is just amazing. It's a really. They. They start. I think the sound kind of changes, which I'll. I want to mention in a minute. I can. I just. I think we should talk quickly about. Let me find one of these that does this thing that I want to talk about there. The. The segues in this tour are just. There's so many that are just so amazing. I mean, the. The Ramble On Slave is. Is. Is probably the best example. But the. There's one earlier on the tour which is the. Oh, the August 2nd. The ghost into Life. Boy, there's so many moments where they just land into the next song and they're usually slow song. And it just is, man, like, really, really amazing. I don't. I don't really like, like teases, but I did go Back to the 7:15, the tweezer and that whole California love thing. Like, it just. It fits so well with the. All the things you. You guys were talking about in terms of like the Just their like attitude and tone and like, it just. It kind of like fits so well. It doesn't feel forced at all. It just. It's. It's really. It's really awesome. And then they drop into free that. It's just. It's another perfect, perfect segue. It's crazy that like the first three or four shows of the tour. First three shows are released so you can like. Yeah, those are in a row, which I feel like doesn't happen that much. But that first. That opener is. It's pretty sweet. And the way that the tweezer drops into the free is just awesome. Um, but that whole Tweezer California love thing is great.

[Megan]

It's really sexy. It's like got like those fuzzy synths. It's so effortless. And the free after it is absolutely crazy. The band is like so into it. They're like yelling like it's. It's really fun.

[Brian]

It's kind of the thesis for the whole tour because, like, you think Back to the late 90s and even today, like, if you're having a party, you're gonna put on some ninet west coast rap. And definitely, like, for Fish to do that is kind of like the whitest thing that they could possibly do. But it also really fits the vibe of the moment and where they're at coming back from Europe. And the next night, though, like, totally different side to it. You get this Reba that almost collapses on itself and then fades into. Fast enough for you kind of to your point, rj, about, like, plucking these old ballads out and putting them in really, really cool spots. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of silence on this tour that is really good. And there's a lot of. Where a year earlier, the tendency was kind of to find a groove and then figure out kind of a platform for Trey to just go full Hendrix instead. Here, like, the whole idea is like, like flattening everything out and just like these little, like, burbles of sound from each individual member where they almost start to sound like each other. You know, you can't really pick out, is that Mike or is that Trey? Is that Trey or is that Paige and even Fishman. As you get towards, like, the Lemon Wheel stuff he's playing, it sounds like. With, you know, like a little bit of a softer drumstick just to, like, bring down. It's very contemplative. And whereas a year later, we Talked about Summer 99 earlier, that's much more groove oriented. This is more like. These are. I think, Maggie, you texted it this weekend. Like, these are jams that you can read to, and there's something really special about Fish playing that way.

[Megan]

Yeah. When a band can get really quiet, I love that, like, it just takes such confidence and it's hard to do it well and have it still be interesting. And they totally nail that. The. I just. I think these three opening shows are so strong. And I think from that Portland show, I just also wanted to, like, shout out the horn into the jam because it is just one of my favorite moments on this whole tour. Horn is just such an epic song. And to hear that and then have it go into this unbelievable, mellow, rich, just delicate jam. I was just. I was walking my dog at night last night, listening to that again, and I was like, this is the perfect late night dog walking vibes. Like, it was just so mellow and so great. And I love that they're playing like this in the beginning of the tour. It's just. It's really, really cool. And that Reba from the Gorge is definitely one of my favorite jams. It's on net. Someone called it Milky or they have that in the thing. And I think that that's so good. Like, it's so gorgeous and sweeping and so easy and fluid and. Yeah, the melting into fast enough for you? My God, even the tube at that show is really beautiful. It's like that tube is the perfect example of, like, funk plus ambience. Like, they've got both of them in there, which is fun. When the song is. When the jams with songs have both of them. It's really cool.

[Brian]

It's pretty wild that they found that combination that worked.

[Megan]

I know it's hard to do.

[Brian]

You know, nobody would think that, like, I mean, Brian Eno had some funky songs like Skysaw on Another Green World, but, like, he was so well known for ambient music. This is a lot of that sound of that style that they're playing in. I don't know. It feels. It feels like they're combining two styles of, you know, recently popular music in a way that nobody was predicting. Could work and somehow work.

[Megan]

Yeah. So cool.

[RJ]

Yeah. Brian, what do you got?

[Brian]

I mean, I'm gonna return to an earlier argument and just give a huge shout out to the 8 3. Haley's comment. This is perfect placement, perfect type of jam. I'll talk about the show when we talk about shows, but, I mean, it's one of my favorite shows of all time. It just. It has flow. And this jam, the way that it reaches this A Love supreme segment just feels like fish 500. Like, they're just. They're playing at a grad level now. They're starting to insert jazz into what they're performing. And, you know, it speaks. Like, there's moments where you could dance to in this jam. There's moments where it gets really contemplative and really pretty. And it kind of just. Everything I love about this tour is all kind of swirled into. And we're only in the second song of the show. Like, come on. There's just. There's so much here. I can go back and listen to this time and time again and just be happy.

[Megan]

I want to hear this released this song especially very.

[RJ]

Yeah. Another Deer Creek box set. You know, remember. Right. Just do all the Deer Creek shows.

[Megan]

Except for.

[Brian]

I'll skip ahead. Like, we. We've got 95. We've got one of the nights in 96. The other 1996 is so. So. But like a 1097. We need that officially released 83 98. We need that officially released. 725.99. We need that official 7 12, 2 or 7 11, 2000. We need that officially release. Why don't we just do the whole thing? There's some up and down shows in there, but like the classics are the classics and we would all buy this. At least we'd promote it.

[Megan]

We definitely promote it.

[RJ]

We definitely promote it. So I. I feel like the. Toward the end of the tour around the Walnut Creek show. The. The ghosts in that show was the. I heard like the sound kind of shifting as they got further along into more of like a bluesy, bouncy kind of sound in the jams as the tour went on. And they got like that, you know, the kind of the repetitive like droning guitar soloing stuff, but. But more upbeat, a little bit more bluesy. I don't really know what happened, but I feel like earlier on it was a little bit less dynamic. But then as the tour went on, they kind of got into this space, which, like that Ghost from Walnut Creek and the Sneak and Sally from the next night at Merriweather. Those are like kind of a different sound and it's an evolving sound and it's awesome. I love those. Both those jams. Yeah.

[Brian]

I mean, that Sally is a really good example. The Piper is a little bit more hypnotic and faster than a lot of jams throughout the tour. But you're right, there is a little bit more of kind of. Maybe it's the festivals lingering and they know they've got a. But even the festival doesn't have a ton of funk. Aside from like the. The Cities. There's just. The Cities is a really good example as well from 731, which is kind of off kilter from what they typically are doing. It's a little bit more tray focused and hosey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan]

You can hear change coming for sure.

[RJ]

Yeah. Okay, do you guys want to do one more and then we'll take a break and talk about shows?

[Megan]

Yeah, that sounds good.

[Brian]

You go, Meg. I don't want to take yours.

[Megan]

Okay. Well, there's a couple ways I could go here. I definitely have. I'm not going to talk about it because we talked about a little bit, but that ramble on into the sleeve. I just want to say that it's the perfect example of them taking their influence and looking back and making it fish. Like that jam off Ramble on is like so fishy and it's so interesting and cool. And then to go into a song like Slavery, which is just the ultimate fish song too. I think it's just a perfect example of what they're doing really well in this tour. But I want to talk about the tweezer from Alpine Valley because I love this tweezer. I think it's so interesting. Mike and Fishman are so good in the lead off to this jam. They are just absolutely crushing. And then the way Paige comes in on the piano, it's so dramatic and it just ends up in that kind of kaleidoscopic, swirling, shimmering. And then it has the huge cacophonous crescendo and it's just this, it's just a piece. This is a really, really cool tweezer that I. I don't think I like, really remember that. It was so good. Like, it's not. It doesn't come to mind when I think of like the best tweezers, but it's really fantastic.

[Brian]

I think it might be my favorite tweezer ever.

[Megan]

Are you serious?

[Brian]

Yeah. I mean, it's just like, it's right in line with the way. What I want to hear from music, you know? Yeah.

[Megan]

It's amazing.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Brian]

This BTP episode number five, we called it the dad Rock Tweezer. It kind of sounds like, you know, light beer while you're barbecuing and you got like a game on in the corner, kids are playing. They're not asking you for anything, you know, and you're chatting it up with another dad about life. And that's pretty much what I want out of these jams. It's very Steve Gunn, like very William Tyler esque. Just kind of rollicking along. You feel like you're driving the back roads of America. Yeah, it's an amazing tweezer if you have. People have not heard that in a while. Highly, highly recommend.

[RJ]

There, there's something. It's. It's kind of like a modern day tweezer in a way, because it has. It's like melodic and then it gets kind of weird. You know, it has that combo like you're talking about, Brian, that would. It wouldn't be out of place in 2024.

[Brian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to say just about 2015 as well.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This, this show just love tapers, love audience recordings. But when you listen to this show and you hear the mic, the mics from the show where there's like pages work on this mics, just like I was just realizing the difference between the audiences and the soundboards where you can hear every single like note that Paige is playing. On all these different keyboards. And it's just like. It just. It just adds a level of detail that's just. It's. Oh, it's really hard to capture on. On audience recordings, I think.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

This is kind of an era where the arena audience recordings are outstanding. Fall 97, for the most part, the island tour. But when you got out in the amphitheaters, you it's. It's very hit or miss. And if the wind's crazy and alpine is so big that I always felt when I was listening to the audience tape of the show that you're like listening through like 19th century, like, you know, little listening device that you like put up so people can hear you, can talk to you. And when they pulled out the. The official release, it just elevates everything.

[RJ]

We do have to take a break in a minute, but Brian, I want you to finish what you're saying or go to the next thing. But I also want to say I want Evdude to get his shout out for the 726. You enjoy myself. That you enjoy myself was. They were pretty monstrous on this tour.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

And that one's near 30 minutes. It's a very, very good version.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

I think that's also the show where Albuquerque debuted, which. Amazing stuff. I'm gonna totally take up your commercial break here and talk about two jams. I thought Megan was gonna go with one of these, so I was giving her the space so I wouldn't take it. But Lemon Wheel, two very specific jams from this. The 815Ambient Jam. It's up there with Tower and Woodlands that just happened this summer at Magna Ball. Crazy to think good things happen at Magna Ball that really feel truly thematic, a part of that period. And like the sound that they were playing at that moment. Really inventive way to share music and share musical space with your listeners and play a very different style of music than your typical typically hearing fish play in like a condensed show. But that man, you put on this hour long jam and you're just there. The candles. The fact that it was on the main stage that everyone just kind of like hung out. Chilly limestone, Maine. I'm totally here for it. It's got so many segments that every time I listen to it, it's like, okay, I know exactly what's coming, but it's still that satisfying. I just love it so much. And then the next night, I'll keep this very brief, relatively. Sorry, rj. You know, have I ever kept anything brief in this?

[Megan]

Don't worry, then I'm gonna comment. So it's good. Keep going.

[Brian]

We're never gonna take a. Take a commercial break. The ghost. I'll be fully honest. For a long time, I was always just like, yeah, they played Ghost at Lemon Wheel. It didn't hit me. And then a friend of mine sat me down and was like, you have to listen to how weird this riff is that Trey plays. It doesn't make any sense. And it's true. It has almost like, no start or end. It just kind of like weaves up and down and up and down, and it just repeats itself in a way that it doesn't feel like it should. And it's so beautiful, and it sounds like something that could be played at, like, 3:00 in the morning. I mean, I'm here for it. It's one of my favorite ghosts that have ever been played. I think it's the strongest ghost of the overall tour. It's a very good counter to, like, seven 19s from shoreline, which is just rock star Trey just shredding your face off, similar to what he did in Prague. This one is very contemplative, beautiful. Reminds me of the 12, 30, 16 ghost in a lot of ways, where it's just like you're weaving back and forth. And how. How did they find this out of Ghost? I have no idea. But I'm here for so and being Jam and goes. Great, great stuff.

[Megan]

Yeah. Those are two of my favorite gems from the tour. The. The ghost. I'll just say, because I think you described it perfectly, that maybe because this series is. Is so much work to listen to all of this music. So I stay up reading, obviously, and this ghost is. Was the perfect thing to read to. And I have listened to this ghost maybe just as much as anything else on this tour. I've listened to it like, three or four times. It's really fantastic and excellent and just ambient heaven. But the ambient jam, what I loved about it, listening to it especially now, is because you can really hear the, like, ancestral lines to the Woodlands Jam. Like, it is like, a direct ancestor of, like, the stuff they did this summer. And that's so cool. And I also love it because it's like fish takes on ambient music. So it doesn't sound just like ambient music. It's not just atmospheric. It's still collaborative. It's still them working together and playing together and listening to each other. It's just a perfect piece of art. And I also loved reading to this too. So thank you for all of the good jams to read to this week. Fish.

[RJ]

Good reading jams. That's what they're here for. Trey has always said that's what they. That's what they want.

[Megan]

Yeah, they just want people to be hanging out, reading alone at night.

[Brian]

Why go to shows?

[RJ]

We do not. We do not want to you to go away and read. We want you to listen to these words from our sponsors and then we'll be back.

[D]

Okay, so this is Krista Makes guitarist and vocalist for Less Than Jake and host of Krista Makes a podcast, a songwriting podcast, where every week I'm joined by an amazing guest to break down the writing, recording and release of one iconic song from their career. In our giant evergreen back catalog of episodes, we've had rock legends such as Dee Snider and Huey Lewis, punk rock favorites like Mark Hoppus, Fat Mike and Brett Gurewitz, and up and coming artists of today such as Liz Stokes of the Beths and Genesis Owusu. We've had guests from all genres and styles of music. And I guarantee that if you peruse our back catalog, you'll see several episodes that'll make you say, man, I gotta hear that. Whether you're a fan of music or a creator of music yourself, you'll take away a whole new appreciation for the songs you know and love. Krista makes a Podcast is available for free on all the places you could possibly listen to podcasts and new episodes come out every Monday.

[RJ]

Bowie, Dylan, Marley. You've heard the names and maybe you've heard their songs. But what about the stories behind the records that made titan titans of music like these so universally loved and important? Join me, Josh Adam Myers, host of the 500 as each week I go through a different album from rolling Stone magazine's 500 Greatest Albums list from 2012 with an incredible lineup of comedians, actors and musicians talking about how the music has impacted their lives. New episodes of the 500 come out every Wednesday. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian]

Foreign.

[RJ]

Let'S talk about shows.

[Megan]

Let's do it.

[RJ]

Who wants to start.

[Brian]

8,398.

[Megan]

Yeah, that was the top of my list to start with. Brian. Go go there.

[Brian]

Well beyond the rhinoceros and the Haleys and the I didn't know you get ride captain ride, which is first time in 494 shows. Big bust out coming there in the first quarter. The remainder of the first set car struck buses, MOMA, strange design 0 nothing that's gonna but it at this at that point, 40 minutes in the show, you almost don't need like just cool. Just. We're. We're good. We're just. We're playing with house money. Second set. You've got a really cool, wild gumbo that gets very overrated by what happened to kick off the show. To kick off the second set, a really, really beautiful in by limb cool meat. You get bike. First time since 11-7-96, 129 shows. Really cool tube wedge closes things out and then circus handle up. Very classic stuff to end it out like again, we're not. This isn't a year earlier when they play that just monumental, crazy rotational jam. Second set. This is just quality classic fish combined with some really inventive playing. It's one of those shows that if I want to hear all aspects of Fish in one, I will pick this.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's like a perfect set list, I think. And I don't know that he was doing that a ton on this tour, but I think this one's perfect. I think the second set has massive flow. I was listening to it and I was just gonna listen to like the gumbo and then the limb by limb, and I just ended up listening to the whole set because it was just, just, just perfect. You just put it on, listen to it. And then of course, the first set you already talked about too, but just fantastic show.

[RJ]

Okay, well, let's go back. Let's go to the Riverport show because this is just. I listened to the gin again today. Probably the, I don't know, 100th time maybe total. This is number six. This is number six on my list. This jam. It's the filler on the, on the 7:15 live fish. So hear the soundboard. That happened when I, when that was released. That was, that was really great for all of us. But there's like just an unstoppable pace to this jam. And it's just. There's so many different parts. There's. There's one part like 10 minutes in when Trey just like won't stop. Like he just not slowing down with the playing. And then Fishman starts going on the symbols to like keep the tempo up, which I feel like is him just like egging Trey on to like keep going. And it just like. There's this. You know, the first 15 minutes are just, just non stop. Like Mike. Mike and Paige are both like in there. I mean, they're all just like. It's like a galloping adventure that is just. I mean, Trey is on top of it, but it just. And then it, then it kind of like, gets spacey but never slows down. And it. And the. The end pages organ work is just amazing. There. There's so much going on in this jam. And then there's that Buried Alive, like, jammed out version in the second set, which I think is also really cool. The show itself is like a little unbalanced, I think, but. But there's like. That's just for those. For that jam. I mean, it's just, you know, it's awesome. It's amazing.

[Brian]

There were a couple shows like this on the tour that I think. I think 7:25 is another one. We're looking at it on paper. You kind of think, well, there's one highlight and then the rest is a little bit filler. But I think when you listen to them, they flow really nicely. Like the first set of the show, it's not necessarily like jams after Bathtub Gin, but like getting a dog log. Get into Ficus, Vultures glide. Like you're getting, like, enough rare fish that you're in a really cool zone. The second set, if you need a fool coming out of Buried Alive, is really cool. Solid Bag Tube Kong Antelope to close things out. I think it's a really good show to shout out because it's. It speaks to what we were talking about earlier, where it's a little bit more on the party fun side and some nights that really works and other nights it doesn't totally work. And we're going to see that kind of go back and forth for the next five, six years in the band's history. But I think this is one of those shows that, like, beyond the opening jams to each set, there's enough in there to listen to and there's nothing there to warrant an official release. This was on my official release list as well.

[Megan]

Yeah, me as well. This is, I think, a killer show. And obviously this jam deserves the whole show to be released, I think. But to me, what gets me about this jam is just the pulse under it. I just don't know if there's a jam that has, like as much of just a pulse that just has so much momentum to it and just feels like undeniable. And what I kept hearing too is like, you can pull out anybody in this jam and they're doing unbelievable shit like you were saying, rj. But the way Mike is playing underneath is so melodic, it's crazy. And maybe I'm just thinking about him because I thought about what he wrote about Phil Lash in Rolling Stone as the tribute was so beautiful and the way that he talked about Phil's playing and how it was not what anyone would expect of a bass player. And I think about, like, that's probably Mike's biggest hero. And so when I was listening to this jam, I was thinking, like, I think Phil Lesh would be proud of Mike here. It's so melodic and just incredible. And the way that after the crescendo, they find the pulse in like a funk riff. Like, somehow I'm just. Where did you find that? It's just this. Yeah, it's. It's legendary for a reason. So good. And the Buried Alive is sick too. It open set to and jams. That's fun.

[Brian]

Do you remember the documentary Mike Gordon made about Alan Woody?

[Megan]

I never saw it.

[Brian]

Government Mule. It's definitely worth seeing, really. It's all about bass players and how amazing bass players are. But there are these segments throughout where Mike is talking about certain bass players. He's like walking around, like, downtown of a city and he's like trying to describe to you how a bass player plays. And he's like, hold on, this will explain it. He starts to go and like hit like bricks or like the rings of a ladder and they're like highlights. And it's a really fun, very Mike thing. I would love to hear him. It'd be really fun if, like, Mike ever was willing to do like a YouTube show with like, good graphics where he gave him a Fish jam. He just described how he was playing it in that.

[Megan]

I think that'd be so sick.

[Brian]

Nicely. Yeah, I'm just thinking about that. That documentary and like, specifically this gem. Because you're right, like. Like this is one of those, like, I want to isolate every single member of Fish because Fishman's got like the cowbell going and he's like. He's just riding like crazy. And Paige on the organ and on the cloud and I mean, they're just. I think you're right. Like, it's also a wild. They've almost never. They've done this for a few songs, but like a week earlier they opened the show in Ventura with Bathtub Gin. And it's a very good 20 minute version. And it's almost like they were like, I think we could do that better. And so a week later they do it and it's, you know, top six jam of all time, according to certain people.

[Megan]

So some people say, yeah, I mean.

[RJ]

Those people are smart. Sounds like to me. Can I just start? Sorry, I want to pass it along in a minute, but I just want to tell you guys, I want you to keep talking. I missed. I missed this show, the 729 show. But I did see the show after it two days later in Columbus. And you mentioned the cities earlier, Brian. But I think this is a. I think this is a really good show. I think it's like, the flow is great, but. And there's some really good jams in there. I remember very clearly at one point during Isabella, I, like, looked up at the screen on, like, the side of the amphitheater and saw Trey, like, it was like a close up of him soloing during Isabella. And I was just like, holy. This is just.

[Megan]

Oh, my God, that's amazing.

[RJ]

It was like a really great. It was a good reminder that, like, they were. They're still. They were still so good because you only got Fish and snippets when you go to shows or you listen to them on tape. You didn't watch webcasts. So, like, if you don't see the. You don't see them for six months, you're like, I don't know. I don't know what they sound like really, except for the tapes. And then you see Trey just raging, you know, on the. On the big screen, and you're like, wow, this is still so awesome.

[Brian]

Last is Bell until the Baker's Dozen.

[Megan]

Yes. Oh, God, that moment was crazy. But, rj, I love that point because I think that, like, we forget that now about how you would go in between seeing this band. And I was thinking about that when I was looking back at. I had my, you know, 30th fish anniversary this. This last week. And I was thinking about that because you would wait so long to see these bands. Like, you would wait so long to see the Grateful Dead. You would wait so long to see fish. Like, months and months and months. And it was like the anticipation would just build so tremendously. And I think that's such a great point that, like, it's hard to remember now because we see them so we have access to so much. But you couldn't watch YouTube videos of them. You couldn't, like, stream them. You really had to go see them live. And you couldn't afford to do it all the time. And they would come to, you know, near you and you would go, and it would just be such a huge production. Like, I remember everybody in my yearbook my senior year was all. Was just. All the quotes were like, I can't wait for you to finally see the Dead this summer. You know, like, I can't wait. I know you're so excited about the Dead show. Like, it was just so much anticipation. So I love that story and can totally imagine that.

[Brian]

Love it.

[RJ]

All right, what do you. What else do you guys got too overexposed now?

[Megan]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe. I have a show that I think is kind of underrated and Shadowed by the Night after it. And that's the 8. 8 from MPP. I think this show's awesome. It has great flow, excellent playing, and really fun rarities and debuts. Talk about feel good vibes. You have like a Chill Sneak and Sally jam. You've got Gayuri Ficus. You've got the Sweet Jane debut, a killer 2001 Keela, a piper that goes into sexual healing. Just like hilarious and an awesome hood. And I was also reading about this show, that this is one of the last shows that was like, not broadcast on radio or that there was a way to get like a good version of it. So there was like leaked soundboards of it. So it kind of made the rounds. But this hood is on Live Bait, Volume 11. But talk about Trey's tone. Like, oh, my God, such a sweet version of the song. And of course, you have the Sabotage encore too. So this is a. This is a great show and I think is a perfect encapsulation of 1998 summer fish.

[Brian]

That was on my list and I'm glad you mentioned it because I have another show so I wouldn't have to give you guys two shows. I. Everything you said. That was an early tape I had when I was getting into them and, you know, Cavern opening up a set and then going into 2001, the Piper midway through. It's just. It's structured kind of weird in a. In a good way. I'm very, very here for it.

[RJ]

Transition. Another perfect. Yeah, just like, just perfect landing spot. Sorry, Brian. Go ahead.

[Brian]

No, no, no. It's a really good call. It's. That's an amazing, amazing spot that's on my list for Live Fish releases.

[Megan]

Me too.

[Brian]

Really, really think that we could just. Because I think you're right, because of Virginia beach, it's a little overlooked. And so if people haven't heard it, they absolutely should. I'm going to shout out a show that I think is very overlooked, and that is 7.25.98. This has a 3.8 rating on fish.net. this show kind of sneaks up on you. The second set does admittedly not have a ton of huge jams, but you get a really good flow in the second set. The first set, I love how it opens with Roses, Big Disease, Rogue, Apologies, Meg, Beauty and My Dreams. Mar goes into a fantastic minor key jam segment. Like we're talking about the kind of blurred lines between 97 and 98. This has that feeling that it could have happened in fall 98. It's a little bit groovy, a little bit sultry in that sort of manner. We'll even let them have the Gayudi Julius to close set one set to, like I said, not a ton of huge jams, but just really good flow. Piper Wilson, Frankenstein, Tweezer into Circus Limb by Limb, Fee Antelope. Again, not gonna blow your head away, but like good quality fish that I think if you want to find pockets of this tour that you haven't heard as much before, you should check this out. And then the encore. I love how it's structured. You get Hood to start the encore, all the feels, all the vibes, but then they close it out with Tweezer Ripper. Just a really good, really good little breakdown there. So always been one of those shows that, you know I'll reach for if I want something that like Dallas or Austin, Texas is not fish country. I know I've seen them. It's not fish country, but sometimes they sneak up on you and they play cool shows in out of market areas that they would not have played, say in Philadelphia or Boston or New York or Alpine Valley type of stuff.

[Megan]

That Wilson is killer.

[Brian]

Really cool.

[RJ]

Megan, I want to hear your next pick, but I. But I feel that I need to, as the only person here who is at the Virginia beach show, maybe defend the Virginia beach show. Defend it as I rarely, I rarely go back to this full show because it's, you know, it's all about like that one moment that, that was amazing. One of the best pictures experiences of my life. But now I wanted to listen to the whole thing because as you all might know, or at least you would expect, Brian has ranked all the shows he's been to and I'm thinking about doing that myself. And I can't do that unless I go back to shows. And it's, it's. It's pretty good. I mean, I think there are some. It's just the tour, you know, like, it's all, it's all so. Like the whole tour is just so fun. But I think there, there's like a really good, upbeat, positive, really great page work on the, on the bathtub gin. The AC DC bag is. This is the one thing that I would probably overlook because I just go. I just listen to the encore. But the ACDC Bag second set opener is a really like again, high tempo, just groove. The. The Antelope is pretty. Is pretty good. But I don't. I don't remember that much about the show and I think that's probably why. But I did want to go back to it and I do think they should release it just because they should. But that moment of course was impossible to describe. But everyone. You can tell, you can just hear people right when they start in the encore. It was absolute. Like once, once in a lifetime in terms of a Fish moment. I was in the middle of the pavilion and we all. Everyone was just like just shocked and everyone was crying and losing their minds and yelling and it was like what a. What an amazing moment in. To get. To see a band do that. It was really unforgettable.

[Megan]

I mean for them to play Terrapin of all songs too. It's just. It's such a mythical song. And like I remember hearing it at one point like on Sirius Fish Radio like years and years ago and just crying like just in the car because it was just. You never thought you'd hear Trey sing Terrapin Station. Like it's just. It's. It's pretty special. It's awesome. And that yem is super weird. It just has like no jam on it. It's. It's. I mean it would. I'm. I would love to hear that officially released just for the Terrapin. Like I think it, it deserves a release for that. And they've clearly been not doing it because of some sort of weird thing they had about the Dead. But they could do it now. So like they should.

[Brian]

I've always really enjoyed this show. I remember hearing it early on because there's just a lot of big songs that even outside of the Terrapin Station, it's a good intro to Fish show and it sounds really good@summer98 like you mentioned RJ, great jams in the gin, Bowie's pretty good ACC bag and then some weird stuff towards the end I feel like. And I'm just going to go off the reservation here. If I'm wrong, correct me this. We don't have the fact check available because you'd have to go back to an Undermine episode. But I feel like Brad Sands talked on Undermine once about how they all knew what the band was gonna play in the encore and Trey just kept playing songs in the second set and they were kind of like what the guys. Like you're not gonna have time to play a 10 minute encore if you guys keep playing, you enjoy myself. Frankenstein, chalk dust. Oh, and hell my baby. Sure you have to do that. I feel like I, I. My memory is, like, a little fuzzy about it, but I feel like Brad talked about that. You're nodding, so I think you're.

[RJ]

Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, he did. He did. And I think they like a classic, classic Fish fashion, you know, like, yeah.

[Megan]

Everybody backstage sweating it out.

[RJ]

What's gonna happen? It doesn't matter. They didn't really play the whole song, like, as it, you know, it just, like, whatever.

[Brian]

They.

[RJ]

They did enough of it to make it awesome.

[Brian]

I mean, they played it. They played it spot on. And, like, just like Megan noted, like, the way you hear the notes at the start of it, it's not like he, he lay. There's still a little fear, like, the second people hear it, people are gonna freak out. And so it's a little quiet at the start in such a way that, like, I get chills whenever I hear.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah, Megan, I jumped in front of you in the queue. Sorry. But tell me, tell me what?

[Megan]

You got another show. Okay. Well, you know, it's interesting because I think some of the best shows, they have released them already, except for, I'd say, like, the Deer Creek MVP and then the Riverport. But this show, I think, just deserves a shout out because it's so good. And it's the 8:12 Vernon Down Show. I mean, this show is just, like, unbelievable. Like, so many classic rock covers. I think this is such a nod back to their influences in a way that I think they only would have done on this tour. And it's so special. And I love all the banter, like, making fun of Fish the whole time because they're close to his hometown. And it's really nostalgic, I think, because they're playing favorites of songs of theirs. And this show, like I talked about earlier, I think has a really incredible ability of them to, like, pair their influences with their originals. Like we talked about the Ramble on and the Slave. It's also a really fun and dorky show, and there's just so much fishiness to it, which you, you know, hear less and less of every year as you get away from the early to mid-90s. But I also just want to shout out this Mics Simple. It's so. The mics is just so gooey and funky, and then the simple is really, really beautiful. And then speaking to what you were talking about earlier, rj, it does drop into, like, a bluesy jam. And it's just. This is worth listening to on headphones because there's so much going on, like, underneath the jam that you can't really hear if you're not listening really closely. It sounds kind of just like a blues jam. But then if you listen, there's a lot of textures to it underneath it, which is cool because it's definitely like a reaching towards what's going to happen in 99.

[RJ]

Yeah. And I would say that this is the one jam that. Of the whole tour that gets a little, like, scary toward the end, you know? Like, it's like. Yeah, it's. There's not that many moments of that here in this tour. But, yeah, it's really cool. It's very. In the simple, like, has so much going on there. But it's a really. That's a great.

[Megan]

It's the highest rated show from this tour.

[RJ]

Is it really?

[Megan]

Yeah. Which it's that and then the gorge from 17, and then the two Lemon Wheel shows, which I think one of those is a little overrated. And then.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Starlake Valley, Virginia Beach. That's number one.

[Megan]

Oh, I had it further down on the.

[Brian]

That is.

[Megan]

Oh, wait, I have it pretty far down it.

[Brian]

That is 4.496. And what is 812.

[Megan]

I just.

[Brian]

Oh, no, you're right. You're right. 4.616.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

I would not have expected that.

[Megan]

I know. I wasn't expecting either.

[RJ]

Did we talk about this first night of Deer Creek at all?

[Brian]

No, but we can.

[RJ]

I think we should just. I think I mentioned the ghost into Lifeblood. The ghost sirens at the beginning are just like. Like, you should just bring that back. Just, like, press whatever the buttons are.

[Megan]

Totally.

[RJ]

But it's the.

[Megan]

The thing I love about this buttons for us, guys.

[RJ]

I mean, and I mentioned the. The Reba, I think. Or was that a different show? No, that's not here. Maybe that's the night whenever that Reba was. Did they play Reba in the show? I think mine.

[Brian]

There's a good reboot from the show. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at it right now. There's a good Reba.

[RJ]

Okay. Right. Yeah. That's where Trey. I mean, Trey's soloing. But the, like, peak of Trey's power, the end of the Bowie there as he's going into, like, the drilling at the end. He stops in between each one and teases lizards and then possum and then divided sky in the, like, middle of the break, in between, like, the soloing, and then immediately just Picks it back up and goes into it again. And I mean, just like that kind of shit is. It's. It's crazy to be able to do that. But. But just to be able to do that in the middle of that song, in the middle of a. Of a. Of a show like this is just wild. So I recommend listening to that because it is like kind of, you know, they don't do stuff like that anymore, but. And this is the second year in a row where they end a Deer Creek show with the hood that's just, you know, this is just. I don't know. Deer Creek just has. Has great vibes and they need, you know, extremely.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

We should hear great. Yeah, Great. Great stuff that. That is that Bowie's like, sneaking some summer 93 into summer 98.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Back and forth, back and forth. Yeah.

[RJ]

Crazy.

[Brian]

I'm gonna throw one more out.

[RJ]

Okay.

[Brian]

And we're basically gonna have done. I mean, we haven't done the Gourd, which. That second of the Gorge. If you haven't heard it and you're an hour and 60 minutes in this podcast, I don't know what's going on. Like, that is just like Fish 101. Amazing stuff. Four songs, incredible Mike's Groove. But I'm gonna just give some love to the Lemon Wheel, especially since Meg just said that one of the shows is overrated.

[RJ]

I agree with Megan.

[Brian]

Okay.

[RJ]

All right.

[Brian]

I want to hear you guys thoughts.

[Megan]

Okay.

[Brian]

Look, this is not as dynamic as the great went, I'll fully admit that.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

But I think that it fits the vibe that we're talking about for this tour, where it's a little bit more under the radar. It's a little bit nuanced. I think that the full first set, Mike's Groove, is really cool, especially during the cities when everything gets all groovy and traced, or, you know, he has those sirens on and he drops everything out so that people on the Ferris wheel are going to lose their minds. I think the Rebo Gumbo Sanity tweezer segment of set two is really cool. That's really nice. Long Bowie with a big droney intro to it. The ambient jam as we talked about. And then the following night, you know, I talked about the Ghost in Set 2, but the gin into Rift. Kind of weird that in a summer where Gin is featured so strongly as a big jam, we get only 13 minutes and it's cut off by Rift, but it is a really solid segue. That's great. Good songwriting or good set listing in the first set. Second Set is pretty magical to me. Disease, Piper, Ghost, Fluff Head. Amazing run of songs there. Big set, two jams, Circus Waiting, Sexual Healing, Antelope. It's just. That's a very classic 98 second set. And then the third set, 2001 is really solid. And then in the encore, we get a really cool kind of bizarre Harry Hood into Baby Elephant Walk. Coming back for the first time in 516 shows. I think that, like, this is not the greatest festival performance that they've ever done, but it does encapsulate the end of the tour, the vibe in 98 in a really nice way. And it's a cool complement to the great W. So I think it could benefit from an official release. I don't think that it's like, we need Cyprus and went first, but, like, you know, it's. It's there.

[Megan]

Yeah, I agree with everything you're saying. I think the thing that stands out to me about the Lemon Wheel is that there's so many better versions of most of these songs played in the tour.

[Brian]

It's a fair point.

[RJ]

That's such a great point.

[Brian]

She's very fair point.

[Megan]

And so it's like you just. You get to the festival and you want to hear like, the best bathtub gin. You know, you want to hear like, the best ghosts. The. The best Down With Disease. And they have great versions of those, but they're not the best. And then also, I just want to.

[Brian]

Pause you really quick. Mondegreen. Are you talking about Lemon Wheel right now? I just a little confused.

[Megan]

I have, like.

[RJ]

I have like a bit Megan hates.

[Megan]

Thing about festivals now. I've only been to one. We've been to one also.

[RJ]

It is the best Down With Aziz of the tour.

[Megan]

Okay, maybe you're right because they don't. They play it, like, not that many times.

[Brian]

I think it's the best ghost of the tour.

[Megan]

And the Ghost is awesome. The Ghost is awesome. And definitely one of my top jams of the tour. So maybe the Ghost is. And 2001 is really good. Not the best 2001, but I don't think there's enough. Like, also they play like a hundred hours each day. Like, if you look at these sets, it's just like. Like, it's just like so much music. I think it's just too much. Like, I think that what they do now, spreading it out into like three or four nights, is much better than playing like these insanely, like, they could never. Anyway, they're too old. But to play these, like, crazy long Shows, I just don't know if it like works well. But I also have a bone to pick with the live bait releases from these shows. Like, they haven't released the Ghost or the 2001 or the down with Disease, but they released the Bittersweet Motel and the Punch you in the Eye. I don't understand that. I'm just confused. Like, I'm honestly confused about that. And I mean the Tweezer and the Sanity, that's cool. I'm glad they released that.

[Brian]

But.

[Megan]

But a little weird, but. But I do think that like the ambient jam, just like the Woodlands Jam makes up for everything. And I think the way that they end the festival is fucking killer hood into a sick jam. And then the baby elephant walk. Like that is fucking cool. Like, that is so dramatic and makes you feel like just you have at a moment. So I have good things to say about the Lemon Whale. But also, yeah, a little bit of other stuff.

[Brian]

Wrong points there. I don't think you need any wrong points.

[RJ]

I agree with you. I mean, I also think for me personally, like, getting to the end of this, I was like. That was kind of the feeling I had was like trying like listening to the highlights and be like, yeah, okay. But I do think the bathtub gin, the way that they create. That they did this a lot this tour, but like using the like, the repetitive kind of soloing to create this like, wave that they're all just like surfing together along. It's really awesome. But I love every bathtub gin from the store and every bathtub gin ever, so. Exactly that helpful future draft. Yeah, let's do it.

[Megan]

Oh, yes. Love that, Love that.

[Brian]

There's a great. There was a great fantasy tour user who went by Casey Sublime, who did like a big listening project back in like 2009, 2010 to find what is the most reliable jam vehicle Fish has ever played. And he had all these like testing models of like length. When it's played, does it segue how many versions on the jam chart? And he came up with a bathtub gin. Every time you hear bathtub gin, you're just regardless if it's 11 minute type 1 or if it actually goes off. Like some of these versions, you're in for just like the best kind of fish ever. And every time they started at a show I'm at, I'm like, that dude's on to something. Like, I know I'm in for. I don't care what happens. I know I'm in for it totally.

[RJ]

Just. It's great. Great that's great. Okay, so we got, we got a lot going on here, but what do we need to do? I think we already talked about our, our live Fish release candidates, right?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Did we do that?

[Megan]

I can review mine. Mine are 83, Deer Creek, 88, MPP and 729 and Pied Lemon Wheel.

[Brian]

Brian, I will add to that because 8 3-887-29. Or mine, I add 725, 89 and lemon wheel as a box set. Maybe, maybe like 20 years. We don't need it right now. But like yeah, these, all of this goodness should be released. What about you, rj? Anything we. We missed?

[RJ]

No, I think that, I think that covers it. I mean I, I would like a Virginia beach release.

[Megan]

Yeah, it really should be.

[RJ]

But that, you know that, that's just, that's just we have gotten a lot.

[Brian]

From this tour, which is cool. There are two tours coming up where we have noticeable gaps that are both noticeable and inexcusable. This tour though, between the Gorge, Portland.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Riverport Jam, Burgundstown, Vernon Downs. We get a good amount of this tour. Alpine Valley. But yeah.

[Megan]

Yeah. Most of the, the shows that you need. But a few more.

[RJ]

Okay, so we're into the top three. And I'm. And I'm. I think people who've been following this closely probably will not. Oh, but we're not. We're not into the top three.

[Brian]

We're not there yet. I have to give him a big takeaway. I got one big takeaway from this tour. Come on. Can I just give my takeaway?

[RJ]

I thought.

[Megan]

You always forget about.

[RJ]

Everything's a takeaway.

[Brian]

That was my theme takeaway. Here's. Here it is. And this is. This kind of ties back to the start, but following 1997 was always going to be hard. Okay, we have to acknowledge this. Summer 98, I would argue is the best follow up tour the band has ever had. They emerged sounding fresh and loose and fun while still diving deep into experimentation in a brand new way. It wouldn't be until 2012-13 that this kind of multi year growth and celebration, celebration would be possible again. We are entering after this tour a very distinct period of unknown highs, lows, no fish lows. Can they ever do it again? Is it ever going to happen? And then summer 2012, dicks. 12:30, a good part of summer 13, which is what brought HF pot in the world. And then obviously fall 2013, that, that stretch to me reminds me the most, you know, in the near future of where we're at in 97. 98. Fish. It's also just a vibe. I think summer 98 is the most tour where it's just like, yeah, dude, I'm just at a fish show. It's just fun. Like how even the shows that like we've kind of pushed aside, you know, or we've been like, yeah, it was okay. You would have had fun being at all these. Can't say that about.

[RJ]

No, that's a good takeaway. I, I, I think that the show after the show or the tour? After the tour. That's, that's a good, it's a good point. Oh, they did, they did have a, they did have a warm up Europe tour.

[Brian]

They did.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, you know, they probably did that because it worked so well the year before, right? Yeah, I think, I would think so. Yeah.

[RJ]

I like different cities. Take away.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Denmark, Prague, Barcelona is kind of a cool European vibe. That's not all. I know people's like just three city itinerary, but I'm kind of into it.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Oh, yeah. So sick. Prague is so cool. My big takeaway I kind of talked about a little bit before, so I won't take up too much time. Rj, don't worry. But when reinvention, how do I always get blamed?

[RJ]

Like, I'm trying to like cut you guys off.

[Megan]

I'm just, honestly, someone does need to cut me and Brian off. Like, we would talk all night.

[RJ]

Job is about managing the segues and so that's all I'm trying to do. You guys talk for as long as you want.

[Brian]

I think we should start doing three hour podcasts. I think that's where the money's at.

[Megan]

Exactly. That's our problem. We're just cutting it too short. It's all, it's our mistake.

[RJ]

Not enough. Just not enough.

[Megan]

Okay, so what I was gonna say is just kind of reiterating that point that when reinvention feels less like a necessity, it comes more organically. And I think that they feel less pressure. And so to me, this evolution of sound feels organic in a way that 97 felt searching and hungry. And once they found it, they like grabbed onto it so tight. This is kind of like, like, yeah, it's vibey. They're like, we might change it up. We might try this, we might do this. And it just feels more organic and less stressful. And that means they don't hit as tight. And I think there are less like consistently amazing moments, but the moments that they hit because they're still so close to that peak and those two peaks in 95 and 97, they're just still able to deliver on such a high, high level. And I think taking what they learned from the funk, this idea of like listening to each other and being less of like a one person driven jam when they're in jams is just works so well to this new style of music that they're heading towards. And it's. I think they were able to apply those lessons really, really well to this new kind of ambient sound. And they're going to discover that in the millennial sound, which is just around the corner for them.

[Brian]

The lack of pressure is a really good point. And it's kind of the only tour where it's you, you, you've earned the reward of just going out and having fun. And so, yeah, like you said, like, they're still so close. The challenge is gonna be once you kind of take your foot off the gas, what happens then? And we've talked about a lot of these tours after this. Summer 99, fall 98, winter 99, 2003, like, there's some great, great stuff, but that foot off the gas kind of change, it changes things, changes everything.

[RJ]

Yeah, I think that the, My, my takeaway, my only takeaway, which I mentioned earlier, but I want to just emphasize it in the context of the larger tour, which there's a lot of context here, so that's what we're here for. I think these tours are really interesting when they kind of signify a change or show you a change as the tour is going on, which I do think you hear the sound kind of evolve throughout the tour and at the end of the tour, it's a different kind of sound in the improv than it is at the beginning of the tour, which I think is a pretty cool and notable thing. And I think, sure, with the next three that we talk about that that will happen as well, but we talked about that like last week or, or two weeks ago. So it's cool to hear that as you're going through the tour, but I feel like that the sound changes and, and becomes something else in the midst of a tour, which I think is pretty awesome to hear.

[Megan]

I agree.

[Brian]

That's gonna be something we're gonna talk about a lot in the next three tours because change is afoot. Where. This is the. This is the latest in fish history that we will be for the remainder of this series. And we're about to hear a band very hungry. Rj, would you like to. Or would you like me to or would you like Meg to reveal tour number three?

[RJ]

I think it's. I think one of you should do it because you're. You're on it today. I'm just here to moderate.

[Megan]

I can do it because this is the first time I ever saw Fish was on this tour. It's fall 1994.

[RJ]

Wow.

[Megan]

Such a sick tour. Tour number three. Tour number three.

[RJ]

Jesus, this.

[Brian]

Go ahead.

[RJ]

No, you.

[Brian]

I've always enjoyed this tour, but I've always thought of this tour as like a stepping stone. And then I went back and listened to this tour in full. Oh, my God. I cannot wait to talk about this. I have some very hot takes about this tour. There are so many more massive jams than I was prepared for. I knew, like, this is the tour of the emergence of the 40 Minute Jam. But, like, you dig in. Oh, my God, there's so much to hear. There's so much this band is playing in.

[Megan]

Oh, I'll just say. And I'm not going to give this all away because we'll talk about this next week. But I have never in my life felt the way that I felt when this band came on stage on November 14, 1994, and opened with my friend. My friend. And absolutely just, just terrorized us in the audience. I just never knew that a band could do something like that. So I'm excited, too.

[RJ]

Yeah, that's great. That is a great. That's a great place to leave it. Also, we have to go because we have to go listen to 46 concerts between now and next week.

[Megan]

Wait, what? How many shows are in this tour?

[Brian]

October 7th to December 9th.

[Megan]

You guys, I also have parent teacher conferences this week. What are you doing to me?

[RJ]

You have to just tell them that the kids are fine and just.

[Megan]

The kids are. The kids are all right, man.

[Brian]

You just want to do the draft instead? Would that be easier for you?

[Megan]

I mean, maybe we're gonna. Okay, we can do that. I'm power. We'll discuss.

[RJ]

But as usual, we're very. We're very strict about stuff, so.

[Megan]

That's true.

[RJ]

We will see you back here next week for something. How's that?

[Megan]

Sounds good. I can't wait.

[Brian]

We'll be back. Can't wait. Awesome stuff afoot.

[Megan]

Osiris.

[Brian]

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What if I have lots of forms?

[Brian]

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