Top 25 Tours — #5 — Summer 1993

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast Episode Summary

Title: Top 25 Tours — #5 — Summer 1993
Host/Authors: Osiris Media
Release Date: November 11, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of the Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod), hosts Megan, Brian, and RJ delve deep into the Summer 1993 Phish tour, ranking it as the fifth-best tour in their Top 25 list. The discussion is rich with insights into the band's evolution, significant performances, and the tour's lasting impact on both the band and its fanbase.

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Tour Significance and Evolution

[04:09] RJ:
RJ opens the discussion by emphasizing the Summer 1993 tour as a pivotal moment in Phish's career. He highlights that this three-week stretch was when the band truly began to "learn how to be Phish," transitioning from structured performances to more experimental and spontaneous jamming. This period marked a shift where "the experimentation takes over," setting the stage for their future musical explorations.

[07:17] Brian:
Brian reflects on the tour's ranking, suggesting that while Summer 1993 might not be their most musically outstanding tour, its symbolic importance in laying the groundwork for future successes makes it deserving of a high rank. He muses, "this is a symbolic tour," indicating its foundational role.

[08:37] RJ:
RJ counters Brian's skepticism by asserting that Summer 1993 was instrumental in shaping Phish's direction. He discusses how the tour represented the band's willingness to take big risks and push their creative boundaries, which directly influenced their later, more expansive performances.

[09:58] Megan:
Megan adds that this tour was the first where Type 2 jams became dominant in their performances. She notes that after years of consistent touring, the band was now ready to "launch into the unknown together consistently," showcasing improved musicianship and a willingness to explore new sonic territories.

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Notable Shows and Jams

The hosts discuss several standout performances from the tour, highlighting their unique contributions to Phish's legacy.

• Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania – July 18th
  [29:55] RJ:
  RJ praises the "Run Like an Antelope" jam from this show, describing it as a perfect example of the band's evolving interplay and ability to "build tension and release" swiftly.

• Louisville, Kentucky – August 15th
  [38:00] RJ:
  Discussing the "Stash" from this show, RJ highlights Trey Anastasio's "beautiful melody" and the band's dynamic range, which foreshadowed their future melodic explorations.

• Tampa, Florida – August 2nd
  [46:59] RJ:
  Megan and RJ commend the August 2nd Tampa show for its exceptional flow and dynamic performances. Megan remarks, "This show needs to be officially released," citing its flawless execution and emotional depth.

• Red Rocks, Colorado
  [65:13] Megan:
  The hosts discuss the Red Rocks shows, particularly the 1993 performance, praising its seamless integration of classic tunes and improvisational brilliance. They suggest that this venue was a significant milestone, akin to what other jam bands consider their defining moments.

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Sound and Performance Dynamics

[15:22] Megan:
Megan provides an in-depth analysis of the band's sound during the Summer 1993 tour, noting the balance between "playful and exuberant" performances and "speed and precision." She highlights the band's ability to "build tension and release" through tempo shifts and dynamic improvisations, enhancing the live experience for fans.

[21:00] Brian:
Brian compares the tour's significance to a meditation practice, suggesting that Phish reached a level of mastery where they could perform consistently at a high level while preparing to evolve further. He likens this to shedding old methodologies to embrace new creative directions.

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Fan Engagement and Legacy

The hosts emphasize the tour's role in solidifying Phish's fanbase and setting new expectations for live performances. Megan points out that the tour's consistency and willingness to experiment resonated deeply with fans, fostering a sense of anticipation and loyalty that continues to influence Phish's live shows.

[73:27] Megan:
Megan concludes that the Summer 1993 tour is highly ranked not only for its musical quality but also for its significance in the band's evolution. She asserts, "This is the Tour where Type 2 becomes the go-to," cementing its place as a cornerstone in Phish's history.

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Conclusion

In wrapping up, RJ summarizes the tour's impact, stating, "The addictive pill that is Phish is fully realized," underscoring the band's perfect blend of musical prowess and creative exploration during the Summer 1993 tour. Megan and Brian echo this sentiment, agreeing that the tour's combination of significance and quality justifies its high ranking in their Top 25 list.

The episode provides a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the Summer 1993 Phish tour, offering both factual analysis and passionate commentary that highlights its enduring importance in Phish's storied career.

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Notable Quotes

• RJ at [04:09]:
  "This is the tour where they figure out if we just follow our muse in the moment and we just go, who cares if we're going to go from bathtub gin and the Maki Supa into a bluegrass song."

• Megan at [15:22]:
  "The sound is really interesting because it's super playful and exuberant and joyful... They can turn on a dime and go anywhere."

• Brian at [07:17]:
  "The fact that we have spring 94 as our number 22 ranked tour, and then we had summer 94 as our number nine tour, and then we have summer 93 as our number five tour."

• RJ at [78:31]:
  "This is summer 93. While there will be bigger moments to come that truly cement them as one of the best bands of all time, this is when it becomes clear to them all that they can do."

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Final Thoughts

For both long-time fans and newcomers, this episode offers a thorough and insightful examination of one of Phish's most influential tours. By weaving in personal anecdotes, musical analysis, and critical discussion, the hosts present a compelling case for why the Summer 1993 tour holds a significant place in Phish's legacy.

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Stay tuned for more deep dives into Phish's history and fan experiences on future episodes of the Helping Friendly Podcast!

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Unknown]

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[Brian]

All right, we're live. What's up, everyone? How's it going? Hey, Megan. Hey, Brian.

[RJ]

Hello.

[Megan]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Brian]

I'm fine. I'm fine. Really fine. The last time we were together, one week ago, feels like six lifetimes. But it's only been. It's only been one week. Brian, go ahead.

[RJ]

I was just going to say, at least we got great fish tours to discuss and argue about and celebrate and wonder if they're really important questions. Is this fish tour overrated, underrated, or properly rated? That's what we're here for. That's it right there.

[Megan]

Important stuff.

[Brian]

I haven't. I haven't been on to the Twitter platform in. Since. In a week. And I wanted to go and tell our followers that. That we were doing this broadcast, but now I don't know if I can. So hopefully you guys know how to find us.

[Megan]

I put some information on. On said platform for people.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Megan]

Yeah, look at that.

[Brian]

Also, we are. I think we're battling right now against the Rhinestorm Brigade because they're doing a live thing right now also. I mean, they might have all of our viewers. I don't know.

[RJ]

They probably do.

[Megan]

Yeah, they probably do.

[RJ]

He has more hot takes than we do. Plus, like, have you ever looked at the guys in Goose? Like, they're just gorgeous. And I think people just like hearing about gorgeous guys.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

And they played acoustic last night and Trevor wore a hat. And hats are awesome. Yeah, they. They looked amazing last night.

[Brian]

Well, that's why. That's why we don't have people watching us. Because, you know, that's why. That's all why. Okay, so there's some. We got a lot of takes though, at least on this. On this tour. All right, first of all, we're at number five. This is the. Should we. Let's just get into it because we've had enough of the preamble. We've had enough preamble. It's been almost two minutes. We're way, way behind schedule. Right, Brian?

[RJ]

Get into it. Come on. There's a lot to say.

[Brian]

We're talking about the number five tour. This is August. Well, I just call it August 93, but it's actually technically summer 93. Right.

[RJ]

I got a point about that as well. I think that's an immediate hot take that deserves hotter taking.

[Brian]

Okay, this is. This was the number 12 ranked tour from fans, and we ranked it number five. And now we're gonna have to defend why we did that. And there's someone's going to. I'm not. I'm not sure who, but I assume someone will. But what's going on here? Why are we at. Why are we in summer 93 at number five? Let's just. Let's just answer that question.

[RJ]

Well, I think you're absolutely right that you call it august93 by default because. And I think as you go through this tour, as we all have, Meg and I were talking about this before we went live. It's really a three week stretch. Like when I went through and put together my list of jams that you have to hear to understand this tour. I have three pre eight two and then I have three post eight twenty. And that's not to say that there's not great moments pre and post. And there's not fun stuff like they released their Great Wood show, which was their biggest show to date at the time. And that is a really cool, fun show with like, a lot of, like, cool little nuggets. But the. The meat of this tour is three weeks where the band learns how to be in all caps. Fish. This is hay hole jamming, where you can see the stitching. You can under it almost Sounds like band practice. We talked about this a bit with Summer 95, but this is obviously pre that. This is before they could ever have envisioned playing a 40 minute long jam, let alone 50 break. But this is a band that is either intentionally or just throughout the larger evolution since 1989 has figured out a formula. They've tightened everything up. Their shows feature all types of music, lots of humor and some experimentation here and there. And in this tour, the experimentation takes over and now shows how the structure that we're used to, they're going to break that down eight, nine months later. But this is the tour where they figure out if we just follow our muse in the moment and we just go, who cares if we're going to go from bathtub gin and the Maki Supa into a bluegrass song, into a song about stepping in dog shit, like, who cares? That doesn't make sense. That's not written in the set list. Nobody's expecting that flow. But that is the special quality that makes Fish. And so in closing to the opening, I will just say before I turn the pages to you all, this may be hyperbolic. I don't care. Come at me. You can't find me online, Come find me at my house like they used to do in real authoritarian empires. Simply put, this might be the most important Fish tour ever played.

[Megan]

Wow. Wow.

[Brian]

I mean, I think in the context of. I can't, like, I can't really refute what you're saying, like from a factual perspective, but the fact that we have spring 94 as our number 22 ranked tour, and then we had summer 94 as our number nine tour, and then we have summer 93 as our number five tour. So the, The. The groundwork that this tour laid is more important than, than what they laid the groundwork for or what it laid the groundwork for, which I think is interesting. I think it's interesting. I just, I want to say that I find it. I find it interesting. I, I think this tour is entirely symbolic. I think it's a symbolic tour and it gets like a. It's like the, it's like the king, you know, in Denmark or whatever. Like, it's just like. It doesn't really mean anything. Doesn't really do anything. I'm. I don't go back to these show shows for the jams. I appreciate what it, what it, what it represents in terms of all the things that you were just describing, but there's no way it's his top five tour musically. That's my take.

[RJ]

I, Megan I want. I don't want to elbow you out here. I just feel like I have to.

[Megan]

Respond to this because I'm letting you respond.

[RJ]

I want you to Completely countered. Um, so I think with spring and Summer 94, just to get those out of the way, I would say those are more about audience growth and audience build. And I think while there may be better moments musically within that, I don't think the entirety of those two tours match up with the breakthrough that they had here. I don't think we're going to hear a breakthrough like this until fall 94, which, spoiler. I just finished last night and holy shit. I have so many hot takes about that because. Holy shit. But I think, you know, and this is. We'll get into this when we. When we do a full review of this series when it's all out. I think that the quibble of this versus, say, summer 95, I think that that musically is a stronger tour. But I do think when you think about who the band is going to become, what is going to define their evolution, their growth, their change, their inspiration, these three weeks from August 2nd to August 20th, you hear it all happening in real time. And while you're right, it may not be the quote, unquote, best music Fish has ever made. These are the biggest risks that they had taken to this point in time, which directly points to the larger successes. So, Meg, I'm throwing it over to you.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's interesting thinking about this because I think one reason RJ maybe, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you feel that way. And why maybe fans did as well, is that the song selection is super repetitive. The structure of these shows exactly the same every night. I think 2001 opens like 95% of the second sets. It's just like the same. A lot of the same. Everything's played super tight. There's so much energy, there's so much playfulness. They have that still, that new Fish vibe. But this is the first tour for me that type 2 becomes like the go to. This is like consistent type 2 jamming in this month of August, in every show, like every single show in this month of August has, like really tight, really well played songs and then a couple songs that get fucking weird. Just like go out there and build that tension and release and build it in many different ways, which I'm excited to talk about when we talk about the sound. But if you think about the band at this point, this is their sixth year of playing over 100 shows. In a row, every year. Not in a row, but like in a year. So they're bringing this peak musicianship to this willingness to explore. And they're no longer relying on teases and segues to create interesting improv like some of their other improv. In spring of 92, it's going into other songs and then coming out, going into other songs, coming out. This is, to me, the first time that they're kind of like launching into the unknown together consistently and not just trying to play teases and other songs within it. And I also think it's a moment where their gear meets up with their ability. Like, we've got the piano coming in, we've got electronic keyboards, introduced their improved conditions on tour. They sound. I don't know enough about, like, what was going on with Trey and Mike, Mike's gear and Fishman's gear, but everything sounds leveled up. And you hear them in spring of 92, they're playing with a lot of these ideas, especially when they're out west, but their gear doesn't sound good enough to pull it off. And here I can hear them pulling off these ideas with their improved gear. And to me, it's just the most thrilling month because even though listening to this music, it's challenging, a lot of it's really intense to listen to. I think, especially this week. Like, it's a really intense week to listen to. Very agitated jamming all week. But I did it. I did it for you guys. So it's not something that I return back to and not something that's like, great to listen to it, like 8 to 10pm When I listen every night and read. But it's. I think it's really important to the evolution of the band. I agree.

[Brian]

I think we're all in agreement on that. It's an important. It's an important symbolic tour. I appreciate that. And that's kind of rap, right? I like.

[RJ]

I like how you. You agree with us and then you immediately throw in symbolic because. Yeah, of course it's symbolic, but I.

[Brian]

Agree with what you're saying musically, I mean, I do think it's a turning point though, too, in terms of the. Which we all agree with.

[Megan]

It's like the first probably big turn, like it's the beginning of the real peak.

[RJ]

Well, you think about it, we've included spring 92, spring 93, and I think we included those tours for many of the same reasons we're including this. But I don't think any of us would disagree that this is the more aggressive like, upward turn that we have. We've heard them do, you know, like, we've heard them level up in certain ways. And there's. To your point about spring 92 and spring 93, there are jams, but a lot of them include teases or a segue into another song. I think you made just, like, a brilliant point that, like, this is when the jamming, because it becomes its own thing. And now these songs are jam vehicles. They're not just like a springboard into some moderate insanity for 15 minutes or so.

[Brian]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, let's. Let's go back to the. To. To the stage setting here. Megan, what do we got? What do we need to know about 1993? Fish.

[Megan]

Yeah, let's set the stage. Rift was released in February. That's really important. We talked about pages, improved gear. The grand piano came out on tour in February. This spring. Winter, I guess. Winter, slash, spring tour they did in February, March, April, and some of May was absolutely enormous. They basically toured for over three months straight was crazy. Playing clubs, colleges, and theaters. And then they embark on this huge summer tour up and down the east coast, through the Midwest, and then the West Coast. 33 shows, 139 jam chart entries. So 4.2 jams per show. One thing that is kind of interesting and cool is that these jams are pretty short. Like, the longest ones are, like, 18, 19 minutes, which did make listening a little bit easier, but there's no, like, enormous jumps into, like, the deep end, and. Which is kind of exciting. Sometimes I would turn on and I'd be like, okay, how many of these jams from the show do I need to listen to? Okay, well, good. There's three of them. They're only, like, 15 minutes each. To school.

[Brian]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, okay, well, let's just get. What's. What about the sound, Megan.

[Megan]

The sound?

[Brian]

Yeah. Like, what do you. What do you hear? I mean, you mentioned the equipment, which I agree with, like, trade, like, 92. Paige, like, is playing, like, a little kid's piano, basically, until Linus is this year.

[Megan]

Yeah. I think there's two things I think about with the sound. One is in terms of, like, the shows, and like I said earlier, the set list construction is really similar, but they're not afraid to jam anywhere. Like, they'll jam the opener. They'll jam in the middle of the first set. They'll jam the end of the first set, they'll jam anywhere in the second set. And then there's consistent jams in certain songs, like Reba Stache, split open amount mics, Antelope, Yam. Those are kind of always jammed. But I think the sound is really interesting because it's super playful and exuberant and joyful. You think about like the chalk dust and the who knows from Toronto, there's just this looseness to it that feels really kind of free and fun. Then there's also like the speed and precision and how tight and crisp they are, especially when they're not jamming. But even when they are jamming too, the ability to kind of turn on a dime and go anywhere. And the other thing that I love is that they have this extra flourish. They're so muscular that they can kind of play on top of and ahead of this really complicated music. So they'll do like extra drum kicks or fills on the ending of mics, or like they'll switch up the melody on the intro to Possum. And they're just doing a lot of things, like just kind of like add extra kind of mustard to everything. But the biggest kind of sound element, I think, is the tension and release that they, that they like work so much into the store. The weaving, melodically repetitive riffs, tempo shifts. And what I noticed about the tempo shifts, which I hadn't really noticed before, is that they use it to build tension in different ways. So one way is they get the audience to start trying to listen for melody. So they start these like dissonant, chaotic noise jams. And since this is not the era of like 45 minute jams, everybody knows they're going to end. And so people are listening and anticipating the melody clicking back in. And that builds tension with the audience. And also they'll slow down their tempo or speed it up so that like, for instance, if you look at like the intro to Wilson From Vancouver at 8:24, it makes the listener wait for the tempo to pick back up, which builds tension. And they can only do that when the audience really knows their music, which is something that they really worked on in the early 90s. So I think it's really cool because they've built this fan base that knows their music so well that they can build tension just by playing things slower than expected or faster than expected because you're waiting for it to get back into tempo, which I think is really cool and a different way to engage the audience. And also I was thinking, to me it always just meant like, when I think of tension and release, I just think of like a build a build a build a release. But it's not really like that they have a lot of ways of building tension and release differently.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[RJ]

I think that's pretty spot on. I mean, I think the, the speed, the tempo, the dynamic, the way that they're messing with the audience is almost like, it's almost like music class for their audience. And they tapped into something that their audience really enjoys, which is this idea of like, what, what can happen to music when it's unleashed and they are so tight now. I mean, again, they, we talked about this in season one of Undermine. Like they were a pretty loose jammy band that was interested in prog rock in the 80s. And then everything kind of flips in 80 when they suddenly start going out on these, you know, three to four month tours wrapping around the country, multiple times playing colleges, and they get a formula down for what a show should be. 89, 90, 91. There's not a ton of jam charts, no matter how many debuts they want to stuff on there and call them jams. But like, you know, by 93, here we're in by August specifically, they're so good at that that it's almost this. What's next? And I kept thinking, you know, these quick jumps, these. Any new idea that's unleashed to the, the audience and to the listeners can suddenly lead to this whole new segment of jamming. And this is a very new thing for Fish. And this is something that 14, 15 months later is going to be expanded upon when they start to play 30, 40 minute long jams and they start to really like. They know that if someone plays a new line, it can go for another five, ten minutes here, as you said, Meg, it's condensed. It's 15, 18, 19 minute long jams. They also don't necessarily have. And I wonder, rj, if this is something that is part of your rationale for how you feel about this tour. They don't have the like musical weight or seriousness that we're going to get in 94, 95, 97, where like the music really feels like you can put on some of those jams and it just feels like you went on a journey with the band and there's like real meat on the bone here. There's not as much here. This is more showy, but this is a showy band that is so good that they're just, they want to show you all their tricks, but they're starting to learn. Like you said, Meg, how do we mess with this audience? How do we have some patience so that we can work in a way that creates just a completely unique experience? For all attendees.

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think it's so. I. First of all, I think this tour is in the middle, basically, in between, like, three different phases of Fish. It's kind of like in the middle. It's at the end of the. Just every. Like, if you listen to any. Any song from 92 and even into early 93. Although maybe the. The real turning point is the. Is the Newport 93 show into the spring, which many people point to that split open a meld as like, a point where they were able to kind of like, look beyond the structure of. Of what they were doing for the first time in front of the audience.

[RJ]

But.

[Brian]

And they've done it in the past, but that was kind of like a bit of a turning point. But you listen to any stash from like, 92, 93, it's just. It. They just. It's just fast and really good and really, like, precise. Right? And then, then you have this building of tension like you were talking about Meg, which they really, like, kind of mastered on this tour. But then toward the end of the tour, they start to enter this other. Other phase of which I would consider, like, actual exploration for the first time, which is pretty amazing. But I. I view it more as like a meditation, like, akin to a meditation practice where, like, you get to the. You perfect it so that you can move beyond it. So, like, they. They got to the point where, like, everything was. So they. They got to the point where, like, they were doing everything that they had known how to do. And I think at that point is when they start to think about, like, what is the other. What. What's. What's beyond this, you know, but you can't. You can't get there until you're like. Until you're satisfied with where you are at your current phase. Like, if you. If you meditate enough, meditation then just happens and you don't put effort into it anymore. Right? Like, so you. They're. They're like, building on this experience in order to, like, leave it behind and go to the next thing, which I think is what makes this tour really interesting, because I think you see all of those things happening, like, at the same time and in between the beginning of the tour and the end, which is only a month or a month and two weeks or something. Like, it's. It's pretty different. They're like, shedding their skin of. Of the way they approach these songs, like in. On a Night to Night basis.

[Megan]

I love that metaphor. The meditation.

[RJ]

I think about it. I think about it similarly, like, I'll make a sports metaphor because why not? You know, you think about like the way that Michael Jordan played basketball in the 1980s. It was very isolation focused. He was just the shocking talent that took over a basketball court. But he. His teams consistently lost in the playoffs and it wasn't until he was unlocked using the triangle offense that he stepped back. But his talents were now so much greater and now he could just win at the highest possible level. I think about that similarly with, with where Fish is at at this point in time. Like they could make a career out of the shows that they were playing in 1992. Better gear, but like, that is a winning formula. You know, kind of rinse and repeat. Enough diversity. Changing the set list. What more can you ask of a band? How many bands do we listen to that like, you literally only need to see one time in a two to five year stretch because they're going to basically play the same set list, like a jam adjacent band. I don't want to call them out in a negative way, but like My Morning Jacket kind of figured out what people want out of their set list in like 2007. And that's what a My Morning Jacket show still is in 2024. A fish show in 2024 is nothing like a fish show in the early 90s. And a lot of that is because in this tour, I think to your point, rj, they'd gotten so good at what they were doing that they said, okay, what's next? And that what's next we start to hear in this tour in a way that is going to affect everything to come.

[Megan]

I think that's what real artists do. Not saying that most bands aren't real artists, but artists that are interested in evolution and longevity and constant creation is failure and failure and are willing to risk that. Right? Because I would say, oh, the lure of making money when you're doing art, not that I would know, but I imagine is that when you find a way to make money doing it, you just want to keep doing that because it makes money. So there's a huge risk on changing it up. But you only do that if you're really driven as an artist. And I think that for most bands, they find a way to make money and there's a lot of pressure for them to just continue to do that to make money. And Fish has never been like that. And I think this is, you know, that first point when they're like, okay, now we're making real money. Like, you know, I'm sure Everybody wanted them to keep doing this, and I'm sure there were so many pressures on them in the mid-90s to keep doing that. But I think that's so. Such an apt metaphor and so interesting to think about because it is really risky, and there's a lot of reasons not to do it. When you're an artist and you think about all of the great artists and they've all taken risks when they were doing something that was working well, willing to try it all and to do something new. And that's what this band is doing here this month in August. And it's. I don't know, I'm, like, talking myself into why this belongs in the top five, for sure.

[Brian]

Well, Megan, maybe there's also an acting metaphor here, but you tell me.

[Megan]

Yeah, there is. There is for sure. Because I think there's this thing that happens when you're acting on stage and you are. You do a lot of preparation. Like, the best actors are super prepared, and they have, you know, not just memorized their lines, but they've thought about all their intention and what they're. They've built their history for their character and then what they. They've decided, what they. Each moment, they come into each scene with, like, something they're going for and that they're determined to get from the other person. And then you're supposed to. When you're really prepared and the other people on stage are really prepared, be able to let all of that go and exist in the moment and react to what's happening to you right then. And we used to do activities when I studied the Meisner technique, which are exactly like the hayhole kind of jams in that you have to. You do all this background work, which I won't get into, because it's really boring. Well, not boring, but it would take too long. And you distract yourself and go on acting corner.

[RJ]

Come on. This is not.

[Megan]

Come on. You go. Basically, you do all this work and you distract yourself emotionally, and you come in with this big feeling that you've created inside yourself with your imagination, because your imagination is incredibly powerful. And then the other person comes in and you are supposed to just. You repeat back what the person saying to you. And it's a way to react to emotion in real time, in a real way. And that's what these guys are doing. And it's so hard to do. And you rarely get there. And when you actually get there, it's. You kind of black out and you don't really know what's happening. Because you're so present in the moment. And I think that's what you can hear them listening to each other so intensely on this tour in August, especially, like, you can just hear them like you were saying, Brian, just, like, responding in the moment and just being completely there with each other. And that is so hard to do night after night after night. It takes a lot of courage.

[Brian]

This is a lot of stage setting. All right, now we are. Thank you.

[RJ]

Shout out to Forbin777, who has been keeping track of every stage that has been set throughout this year.

[Megan]

Yes. Thank you so much.

[Brian]

Thank you, Megan, for that. Beautiful.

[RJ]

That was so good. That was. That was it. That was it.

[Brian]

Okay. Do you guys like any jams from this tour?

[RJ]

A lot.

[Megan]

A few. I like a few. And they're all stash jams. No, I'm just kidding.

[Brian]

What? I. I just.

[RJ]

Jams.

[Brian]

We're gonna talk about August. I. I think the. And. And just like a. A side note about how this project goes, at least for me, is that I. One week. I have one week to listen to a tour.

[Megan]

Same.

[Brian]

And then how many hours? I don't know. Not that many. So I only listened to a few shows in full, and then I listened to a lot of highlights. But the 7:22 show was the first time that I heard, like, them kind of breaking the mold of. Of a jam in the stash, actually. But I feel like I listened to from the six shows before that, and there was. It was sort of like, fine. But that was the first kind of sense where I got like, oh, this is kind of like it's starting to break away from the. The mold a little bit. But it's mostly through what you were. The attention release stuff that you were describing earlier, Meg. But it's. That's a really good, good version. But there are. Yeah, like, there's basically one every show. So however many shows there are, that's how many stashes there are.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[Brian]

Do you guys have any July. Any. Any, like, earlier stuff or early to late? Because this is one that's maybe slightly more chronological and that the July stuff is just very different from the August.

[RJ]

I really liked the Run like an antelope from July 18th in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's what I was going to say, too.

[RJ]

You get a Heartbreaker jam. You get the band's playing along with fireworks. You get Brother Tease midway through there. Then it goes back to Antelope. It just kind of speaks to the, like, early on in the tour, what we've been talking about here that they're listening to each other, they're responding to a new idea. And Antelope's kind of like the perfect song for this because once it goes into the jam, it just builds. And so if you can break apart that build, you build tension and release. And you are able to, in really quick succession because it's a really fast song, figure out, all right, if Mike plays this and we all go here, how quickly do we get back? And it's kind of also a song that it feels to me like if it breaks down, it's not the end of the world. You just. Fishman hits a snare and you guys are off again. So, you know, you just hear. Whether intentionally or not, the band is really pushing themselves in this in a way that just shocked me because I knew going into this tour, August is where everything's at. But I also like you, rj. I wanted to jump around and see, okay, what happened before then that paves the way.

[Megan]

Yeah. It's funny when I look at these, the gems that I'd written down before 8:2. It's the stash from 7:10, the Pittsburgh antelope, the antelope from 723, and then the Stash from Great Woods. So, like, it's Antelope and Stash is clearly their places that they feel like, yeah, that they can test out this. These feelings. And a lot of those are on Live Baits, too. Like the Stash from Great woods is on Live Bait, Volume 12, even though they eventually released that. But that Antelope from Pittsburgh is on live bait, volume 13, the stash from 710 is on live bait, volume 10. So, like, those have been released. But those are the songs that they were really kind of leaning into. I think you've got an Axela and a My Sweet One that are pretty cool that are on Live Bait from the Charlotte show on 7 28. But I think that's kind of like all I had until we get to 8:2 in Tampa.

[Brian]

Well, yeah, we got to go there. I just. Can we just talk about the Pittsburgh show quickly? Because it was called at the time the IC Light Amphitheater. This is a 5,000 seat amphitheater named after or sponsored by a local logger called IC Light. It's basically like an Iron City Light beer. It has to be the smallest kind of, like, brand to sponsor an amphitheater. Like, it's like a city specific beer. That's like one kind of beer. Not. Not like the brewery. It's the beer. I mean, I see Light Amphitheater, I bet, was fucking lit up with ice.

[Megan]

That's amazing. I have to say, I went on like, a rabbit hole last night. I don't know. It might have been too late. I was, like, cramming the last bit and I was looking at. I was just feeling really nostalgic for the Grand Rapids show on this tour. And I saw that. I'm like, they played at Eastbrook Theater, and I looked up where that was, and then I went down this rabbit hole. It was demolished last year, but it was like this, like, shopping, like, strip mall club with, like 1500 people. It used to be a movie theater when it was first made. Like one of those single big, wide projections. It looks so shady and small and, like, it just. I was just laughing thinking about, like, them just, like, they were hustling on this tour. Like, they were. It was not glamorous, man. They were, like, playing almost the same show, like, every night, like, just giving it and like, you know, on the tour bus, at least, but playing at the Icy Light Amphitheater and the Eastbrook Theater and, you know. Kent, Michigan. Like, they're not like, this is. Is. It's. They're definitely. Yeah, they're working, man.

[Brian]

They were working. They were working, man. At this point, you know. Yeah, they also. I just. Well, never mind. I'm not even gonna get into that. I think there's too many jam chart entries for this. This tour. It's just. It's too much. There's. There's too many. There's too many stashes with cool attention. Release. Like, I. I don't know.

[RJ]

Like, they're all.

[Brian]

They're all great. Some of them are better than others, but, like, there's like 20.

[RJ]

You know, I think we were at least this series with a much tighter and best. Better representative jam chart list for listeners than currently exists. Because it's a little bit. Because the time constraints, we couldn't just keep adding stuff. We all had to kind of like.

[Megan]

Right.

[RJ]

And. And to be clear, I could not have done this without the original, but, like, the best of the best, like, we deserve another one. I think it's also interesting you mentioned, like, the bands hustling the bands. Like, it's crazy because that theater you're talking about in Grand Rapids, they then play a music festival in Rochester Hills, Michigan. Then they play the Marat Theater, which is a theater where classic music was played, Plays happen. And then they play the World Music Theater, which is not a theater, that is an amphitheater. That's like 15,000 people in suburban Chicago. And then they play the Macaulay Theater, the American Theater, the Memorial Hall. These are theaters in Louisville, St. Louis, St. Louis and Kansas City. Then they play Red Rocks for the first time. This is very much, dare I say, while they are recording right now, Fish's current goose moment where they are taking these risks of playing these big amphitheaters. Wolf Trap the man, I think classic amphitheater in Raleigh is here. Waterloo Village and New World Music Theater. Red Rocks. These are all places that the band is going to play again. And repeatedly when they've become more of like a national touring band. Now they are trying to make that. And so they're filling the gap between, like, we have to hit this market, but we can't sell this out because we're playing here. So we're just going to play a. A strip mall, old movie theater, or we're going to play a music festival, or we're going to play this theater that fits 950 people in it. And then we're going to play a place where we only sell out the pavilion and scattered people on the lawn. It's just a really interesting place to be as a band because I got to imagine they're making enough money that they can keep doing this, but they have not reached the point. And you can tell this by the shoes that they continue to wear and the style of jeans that Trey wears and the times he recycles that tank top shirt that is just disgusting. Like, this is pre Fish looking good. Anyway. These guys are just like road dogs.

[Brian]

We should do a Fish fashion rundown of this. I just want to say quickly, Brian, just to add to that, you. You kind of spelled this out and you and Megan both did, but this is their first headlining show at the man, first headlining show at Jones beach, first headlining show at Great woods and. And probably a lot of others along the tour. But. Yeah, but also mixed in with these weird, weird venues where they probably were just like, there's a day between the music festival in, you know, outside Detroit and Toronto. So let's like, do a thing. They were. They were at that point where they could do that, like adding a show at the Troubadour. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know what I mean, Brian.

[RJ]

Talk about this is crazy how this is five years prior to Brad Sands being so pissed that they did not sell out the arena in Utah that they played Dark side of the Moon. Like, how much things are going to change over the next five years with this band. This is why I Go back to like, I think we got it right. Putting it here without this tour. That's not who this band is. This band doesn't have the chance to play these kind of jokes on their fans.

[Brian]

I'm not. I'm not going to go that far. But Megan, I want to hear about more gems that you.

[RJ]

That you love. Do you think they broke MSG at this point in time, 18 months away? Do you think that they. That without this tour they're playing MSG at the end of the year? No, they're not. I'm not gonna give you a chance to rebuttal that well without.

[Brian]

Without us, like without me eating those peanuts I just ate. Like, we wouldn't. I wouldn't be talking right now. Like, we can. We can go.

[RJ]

Sure.

[Brian]

Every moment of life.

[Megan]

That actually makes no sense, rj.

[Brian]

I'm just saying without the tour. Of course without the tour, this would tour wouldn't exist without like a lot of stuff happening.

[RJ]

No, that's not what I'm saying. Without this tour. The latter success I don't think happens as quickly and as like, like that's the way it goes.

[Brian]

You make more specific point. All right, I'll take it.

[RJ]

Good.

[Megan]

Guess what I want to talk about. Guess what jam I want to talk about. I want to talk about a stash. I'm not kidding. Yes, I want to talk about a stash from August 15th in Louisville, Kentucky, because I love this stash. I listened to a lot of stashes this week, but this one I really love because I mean Paige is just unbelievable. But this one is actually a little bit. It's a little bit softer. It has this like off kilter melody that repeats in this distorted way and it eventually becomes melodic. And there's this moment that Trey starts to solo over it with this like beautiful melody that kind of was a little bit of foreshadowing of like what he's going to do later on. Like he's going to find these like beautiful melodic lines to just soar over the band. And it just kind of hit me of like, yeah, Trey, this is the way like it. It was just a really great use of dynamics. They go up and down in volume tempo. Really great. Apparently this is. Was released on from the archives that it. It would be really cool. From the archives were on Live Fish app. Like just saying that would be awesome. That would be awesome. Really helpful for this kind of thing because this is something I really want to hear. I really want to hear archivally released is this stash. But I Think it's great and kind of nestled in so many great shows. A lot of officially released shows right around it, but just really great stash.

[Brian]

I really love that stash. It's really great for all the reasons you said. And can I just say one thing? This tweezer from that show, which was the second longest tweezer to date by 9 seconds. 9 seconds.

[Megan]

I didn't know that. I don't think.

[Brian]

Wow. Yeah. So you nerds can figure out which one. It's which one I'm talking about, but it's the. The tweezer reminded me of, like, what you would hear in 94. It started getting. Starts getting pretty strange. And, yeah, that's a great, great show.

[Megan]

I also love the Hood from that show.

[RJ]

Amazing hood. Yeah. The stash is incredible. It's. It's very melodic. It touches on something you said earlier, Meg, just with regards to them jamming within songs rather than jamming without songs, and we're in between songs. I want to jump back in time just a little bit and highlight the August 6th yam into cocaine, into Yem, into Haley's, into Slave to the Traffic Light. This does employ Segue, which they. They did a few times throughout this tour. Yem is just perfectly played so fast. It's insane that they have this song just, like, queued up. The way that they did figures out its way into Cocaine in a manner that sounds a lot like what we will hear 10 months later in June. Because back in Em. Actually a cool vocal jam that goes directly into Haley's Comet and Haley's segues into the first Slave to the Traffic light in, like, 200 shows at this point in time. I'm gonna get you the exact dates here.

[Megan]

It's 241.

[RJ]

242. Since October 24, 1991, which is crazy that they played 250 shows between the fall 91 and summer 90 as well. That would be, I think, like, going back to, like, the Baker's Dozen at this point in time. Wow. But it is crazy because we do think of this era as kind of very foundational, formative. There's not a single slave in 1992, and there's no slaves on the spring 93 tour. And then it comes back here. They'll play it again at Red Rocks. They'll play it all. The fans will chant for it on 1230, 93, another show that absolutely needs to get officially released. And then it'll start to work its way into the rotation to be more of a kind of foundational piece. But like here you, you just like. It's, it's. It's an amazing return. It is crazy. Just as another aside like Yem has been played like 646 songs. Slave was played for the first time. 12 184. Only 286 total performances. Because of that gap, there's so many slaves that we just don't have. Wow, that's a weird sentence to say out loud. I hope you all know contextually. Don't. Don't chop that. You know. The other one I want to shout out here is this is from an official release show, but The Reba from August 16th is just wild, expansionary, just mesmerizing fish. We're at a point where a song like Reba, which will become more standard by decade's end and kind of fit a specific slot in a show, is now a jam vehicle. And it's kind of wild to consider what could have happened if a song like Reba stayed in the same vein as Bowie and Tweezer and Stache and what they would become over the next couple years.

[Megan]

I love that Reba. It's one of like the first early type 2 rebas too, is so beautiful. Like so many nice, like gorgeous sections. So pretty. I also. That sleeve was on my. Was on my list too. It was. It's so good. From 86. That was tension and Release Masterpiece.

[Brian]

The Haley's and Slave from that are on Live Bait Volume 8, along with a bunch of other releases only from. Only from August. There's a couple. There's a couple July releases from 7:28, but everything else is August. I don't know why. What else? Oh no, there's a couple others. Never mind. There's a couple of Julys, but there's a lot from summer 93. But not a lot of official releases. Not as many as there should be.

[Megan]

No. But they do have good official releases. I think they've chosen some really good shows.

[Brian]

Well, they need to choose more, do better.

[RJ]

It's a well represented tour officially. I do think that there are two shows specifically, maybe three. Well, there's one that I have as like a larger box set to be released, but there are two shows I think that definitely should get released from this tour. Megan, I want to step on your toes here. So. So just as I'm talking about it, why don't you tell us what one of those shows is?

[Brian]

Well, wait, wait. Will you go in there? Will you wait so that I can give some airtime to our sponsors?

[RJ]

I can wait as long as you need.

[Megan]

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.

[Unknown]

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[Brian]

You'Ll be able to reach people who do.

[Megan]

Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign.

[Unknown]

Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results.

[Brian]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Unknown]

LinkedIn the place to be to be.

Hi, I'm Hal Schwartz. And I'm Flynn McClain. We want to tell you about our podcast none but the Brave, which is dedicated to taking a deep dive into the work of Bruce Springsteen. We're currently in our fifth season. Our latest episodes focus heavily on Bruce's 2024 tour and have featured such guests as Anthony Castrovints from MLB network and Barstool's Kirk Minahan. We're also covering the 40th anniversary of Bruce's biggest record, Born in the USA. And as part of that coming up this week, Uprox cultural critic Stephen Hyden returned to the show for a fascinating hour long conversation about his new book. There was nothing you could do. Bruce Springsteen's Born in the USA and the End of the Heartland. To listen, you can go to our website mbtvpodcast.com or subscribe on your preferred podcasting platform. We hope to see you further on up the road.

[Brian]

Thank you so much.

[RJ]

We'll be seeing you.

[Brian]

Okay, that was long enough. Megan. What? What do you got?

[Megan]

So are we going to live? We're going to. That's where we're going.

[Brian]

No. Well, let's talk about shows or you keep talking about jams. You do whatever you want and we'll. We can bounce back and be here for you.

[Megan]

Okay. Okay, one second. Forth. Okay, so why don't. I'll talk about the show because I really love the show, but Brian had it on his name when we were coming on and I was like, brian, that's the show that I want officially released. So he said I could have it, which is really nice. And yeah, it was really nice. But chivalry still lives, right? Wow.

[RJ]

Just don't, don't forget it, guys.

[Megan]

It's really nice. 8:2 from Tampa is just an incredible show, especially the second half of set one has some of the best flow of this whole entire tour. This gin I was going to talk about during jams, but we, we transitioned to a different section so I'M talking about it now again, I really liked.

[Brian]

I just. I think everyone who's listening will know that that was not. That is not true. It's not what anyone said.

[RJ]

I take all responsibility for the. For the. I was trying to hay hole you guys. Just follow along.

[Megan]

Here we go. We're going, we're going. I like the moments in this tour when things slow down a little bit and this gin is just has this, like. It's slow to begin with. The tempo is really mellow, and it has this gorgeous, like, lazy slowdown and just kind of like relishing in the twisting and the turning that they're doing. And then it builds really quickly. And you can hear them looking at each other and just enjoying it. And just such an unbelievable drop in a maka supa. And it feels like after the song part, they just go right back to that gin jam. It's so, like, mellow. And they're lightly singing like Policeman and kind of, like, haunting. And it has this, like, foreshadowing. It kind of reminded me of, like, what's gonna happen with the Sirens and, like, Velvet Sea that we were talking about last week so much. It just has this, like, eerie, like, really lovely, really pretty vibe. And then my mind actually somehow works there. And then Dog Log and then ends with Lagrange. Another thing Fish could have played Monda Green Day 4. Why don't you just come out and end the set with lagrange? That's all people would have been talking about. Because this is the perfect set closer. It rocks so hard and it peaks so perfectly. It's just. This is just like a magical section of, like, five songs or whatever. It's so good. And the rest of the show's great, too. You've got an unbelievable mics. The crowd is in, like, the palm of their hand. Everybody's screaming. They launch into that, like, Sparks jam. You've got Fishman his moment. He sings Bike. And then you have, like, a killer antelope to close the set. This show needs to be officially released.

[RJ]

I think I have a new draft for us to do in the. In the coming months. It's going to be a draft. How Fish plays Surprise One set shows.

[Megan]

Like, picking the best ones.

[RJ]

No. How do we build a set list for this band?

[Megan]

Oh, that's fun. I like that.

[RJ]

We're gonna have, like. We're gonna have, like, classics. We're gonna have jam vehicles. We're gonna have songs that sound like My Soul. We're gonna have, like, funny, like, Fishman songs and Then we're have bust outs, maybe a couple other sections and Yeah, a ballad section too. Good call. And we are going to draft salad.

[Brian]

Which I was like, that's. I don't know what that means, but that was like my soul. Like you just have to eat it. And like, even though like the ceviche. So boring.

[RJ]

No, but like we're gonna draft. How does Fish play single set shows? Because we gotta figure this out and we're the only ones who can do this. But anyway, yes, lagrange would have been better at Monda Green than everything you got outside of that fuego.

[Brian]

Exactly. The fuego, which was the last thing everyone leave. Yeah, the. The Ritz Theater in Tampa was. Was opened in 1917 and from 1965 until the late 80s it was an. It only showed adult entertainment until it got. Until it got purchased and revamped into like a music venue in like the late 80s, early 90s. So it's like some really, really interesting, interesting history. It's still open. It's. It's called the Ritz Ybor now in Ybor City. So it's still around.

[RJ]

I wonder. And I have no way of proving this right now in the moment, but I'd be curious if our intern could be tasked with this. This show features a lot of notable bust outs. Brother, first since 7-14-92, 144 shows. Dog Log, first since 5-4-91, 284 shows. LaGrange, first since 3-17-91, 311 shows. Sparks first since 9-13-90, 394 shows.

[Megan]

Wow.

[RJ]

I wonder if this is the first bust out show Fish ever played because you get a lot of these songs that like were kind of played scattered through the 80s into the early 90s. A song like Brother Was debuted in early 92 and then didn't kind of last. I don't know. I. This would be an interesting thing to figure out is like when was the very first show where if you were there, you caught a bunch of bust outs that nobody, nobody was expecting to get at that point in time.

[Megan]

And this launches like the best part of the tour. So is there an association with like a band that's willing to play bust outs and dig into their catalog and how that inspires them to.

[Brian]

Go off.

[Megan]

The deep end more? I don't know.

[RJ]

Trey talks about this show in the Fish book, which at that point was only four years in the past for them and so 93 was still probably ever present. And he talks about how the band to that point in Their career. And I think to a certain extent still has this challenge of showing up when, like the pressure's on and playing the best show on the night of the year that you're supposed to. In the venue you're supposed to. That's always kind of like this game that you have to play with Fish is like, am I going to see them on? And either they just kind of play a Fish show or am I going to see them on a night?

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

And he talks about this show that there's like nobody in the audience and as a result they just threw down. And you. You get it. Exactly what you talked about. That. Gin through the Grange to close the set. Mike Sparks, Curtis Lowe, you know, midway through the second set. I mean, just amazing, amazing ability to connect with the audience through rarities and through jamming that we all know is going to be a huge kind of directional, you know, next step for this band as they move forward.

[Brian]

The reason this show needs to be released is that the amount of talking during the Kurtis Low is just disgusting, offensive. Like the 12 people in there are just having a conversation while they're playing Curtis Low and you're like, what is wrong with these people?

[Megan]

Well, that's it. Also, like, imagine that, like they're hustling so hard and then people are just talking the whole time. Like, it's just. It's not easy.

[Brian]

Maybe they don't. I mean, I wonder. There's. There's been no live bay release from the show. There's been no, you know, I assume a recording exists. I assume a soundboard exists. But, you know, we don't know this.

[RJ]

Is the last Curtis Lowe that is going to be played until the big Cypress sound check, but then officially until 5:31, 2009 Fenway Park. 628 shows.

[Brian]

Wow.

[Megan]

Wow. That's crazy.

[RJ]

I somehow saw three of the first four when I was busted out. 5, 3, 1, 096, 12, 10, 8, 13, 10. And have not seen it since. It has not been played since 12:30, 2019. Which one I saw itself was a 121 show gap. So we are due for a big Curtis Lowe at this point in time.

[Megan]

We are perfect msg. It's a good place to play it.

[RJ]

Nobody talks there.

[Brian]

Nobody talks there. Not at church. I just. Can I talk about the 812 show? Because this is. Yeah, this is very important to me because I think I still. I'm sure that it's up there. The tape cover is up there on the wall. This is one of the first tapes I ever got. And still the whole show is like, very extremely familiar to me. But the, The. The old intro on ACDC Bag to open the show with like a jazzy outro. And then this Reba that comes in after and I mean, that's just really like stretched and beautiful and great. And there's a tweezer in. In the show that's into the Landlady. I mean, it. Like, this is a. This is a really good show. There's. There's some stuff in there that's like, you know, it doesn't flow perfectly, but. But the sellers is really good except for like the Big Ball Jam, you know, which at that point it's like. I mean, like after Maze, it goes Lawn Boy, Big Ball Jam, Gogi Possum, like, why bother? Just like, go. Just play Maze. That's it. Send them off. Send them off into the night. They did tease Tweezer Reprise in Possum, which I think is just, you know, maybe the whole point. But that's a really cool show and brings back a lot of memories for me. But that and the Reba which was released live Bait is really awesome.

[RJ]

It's a great Reba. Really cool bag. Yeah, this is. This is really good stuff. The Landlady Tweezer. Landlady Tweezer kind of gets back to what we've been saying about, you know, this. Hey, Hole. Jamming the. Yes. And jamming that we're getting from them at this point in time, that's just huge. Can I talk about eight, nine?

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah.

[RJ]

So I have no idea how this show hasn't been released yet. This show rules. This has. This opens with chalk dust. Who knows? Chalk.

[Brian]

Maybe because it's from Canada, potentially, but.

[RJ]

They released the show from Montreal in 1992.

[Brian]

True, true. Sorry.

[RJ]

They also rescheduled a Rain Rain out show and Canada. So, like, they care, you know.

[Megan]

It's true.

[Brian]

They do care.

[RJ]

They care. Split up in a melt into glide Come on, Tweezer Yem into contact in the crimes of the mind with the Due to life on vocals. It's just like, you know, if you're a Fish fan, you know, I think we. I think we kind of gave this away when we were starting to talk about this tour. We don't typically go back to check this tour out outside of, like, okay, they just released a new show or, okay, like 8, 1493 or okay, the Mirage. So if you're one of those fans who, like, you kind of overlook this and say, I'll just listen to the Denver ghost for the 476th time, point me in the direction of an August 93 show that kind of encapsulates it. But, like, I feel like this show never gets so far off the deep end that you're potentially annoyed the way that some people are by how fast and loud and aggressive they are in this. In this tour. But you get all the goodness of this tour. You get quick segues. You get jams off of big songs midway through a set. You get strange moments of flow throughout. It's just. I love it. I think it's a great show. I think it encapsulates everything that we've been talking about here. And I don't understand why this show hasn't been released to the masses. Because you just press play. And granted, we're not talking about flow on the level of what we'll get in a couple of years. We're talking pretty good flow for fish in 1993 in a way that I could just. I could see this. Making a young fan be like, wow, I have to hang out in this month for the next two weeks.

[Megan]

Yeah. And the opening, the chalk dust into who knows Chalk does that is kind of groovy. Yeah, it's really cool. That's a really cool way to open.

[Brian]

A show, I think. I mean, I don't want to take anything away from the show because I think it's good, but I think there are.

[RJ]

Take stuff away from it. It's okay.

[Brian]

No, I don't. I don't. No, like I said, I don't want to. But. But I want to say that there are. I think there are, like, five shows that should be released. I think there are, like, so many good shows that are all. Because the shows were such. So high quality, it wasn't like some of the tours that we've talked about where it's like, you know, it's all kind of about one or two or three or a handful of shows. Like, they're all. All these August shows are so good. They're all.

[Megan]

They're all just really, really good. Yeah, I agree. And they've released, I think, some of the best, for sure.

[RJ]

Yes. We've released 8 7, 8 13, 8 14, 8 16, 817 and 8 26.

[Megan]

I mean, 1617 are just insane.

[RJ]

Those are really good.

[Brian]

Just. I just want to. Just. Just while you're saying that on the top rated shows on Fishnet, 821 and 814 are the two highest rated that have not been released, I think 821.

[Megan]

Is a little overrated.

[RJ]

814 has been related.

[Brian]

Oh, it has been released.

[Megan]

Yes. And that is, I think that was live there.

[RJ]

Seven. Yeah.

[Megan]

And like obviously Marat's incredible. One of the best shows, if not the best show of the tour. But I think this 821, it's, you know, it has this really cool sit in with Bella Fleck and I think that's amazing. But I think that it's. And I do think it pushes the, the improv forward for sure. Like that's a really good sit in. But I feel like, you know, a sit in for the entire second set of a tour when they're playing this well is just something I never really want. Like I'm more want to hear like what they're gonna do. And I kind of felt like, what are you saying?

[RJ]

When they're playing a tour this well and they have a sit in for the entire second set. Can you expand upon that? Has that ever happened?

[Megan]

And then they do it again the next night. It's crazy. Yeah, I just, I don't know, I feel like this show, it didn't like lock me in the way that, you know, I, when I listen to these shows, I listen to like the jam. I look at the jam charts and then I pull up the top shows, top rated shows and I look at those and I just expected this one to hit me harder than it did.

[RJ]

I get that. I mean, I think my, my biggest takeaway from this show was the stash and the Bowie mine, Left Body Bowie. And the fact that Bailiffle does a really good job of fitting in with a band and his band does that like just the style of music the Flecktones play works really well with Fish. I think it's no surprise that some of the best musical sit ins have been with Fish. But I agree with you. I think that this is so high up because of the sit in and I think sometimes that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[RJ]

Doesn't tell the whole story.

[Brian]

I mean, come on, Come on. Okay, here, here's a, here's a, here's a question for you, Brian. If we're going to talk about a show that must be released, what about the tour closer?

[Megan]

That's definitely a question I have because.

[Brian]

You talk about a. You enjoy myself Oyekoma Va jam. It's just like celebration of the end of the tour at the Greek. I mean there's so much else going.

[Megan]

On there, but that clubhead is like perfect.

[Brian]

That's a really, really great. I mean there's so much going on. There's like a. It's not as. It's not perfect in terms of the. The flow, but. But it's. It's pretty close. And I feel like the way it ends is just awesome. And Amazing Grace acoustic at the very end of the encore. And this is their last show for what, four, five. Four or five months? Six.

[Megan]

I think it's like six or seven. It's really long.

[RJ]

They'll play a New Year's run.

[Megan]

The New Year's run. But, like, besides that, they won't go on tour again.

[RJ]

They won't go on tour until April.

[Megan]

It's crazy. Like, this is really long time.

[RJ]

They're gonna be off the road. They're gonna make Hoist, which they're. They already know at this point. They're putting a ton of time, money, and energy into. So. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. It's interesting as well. This. They played this show at the Greek Theater to close out the tour. They don't play the Greek theater again until August 5, 2010.

[Brian]

Wow.

[RJ]

And since then, they've played six shows at the Greek Theater. Trey and Mike have done some solo shows here. I think this is a really good show. This, again, like, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but, man, stash, Run like an Antelope. Like, you got some big, big songs that are once again huge. The Yem Oyakomova, the Fluff Head, as you mentioned. It's just so big and so, like, in your face. I. I would have no opposition to this show being officially released. Yeah. I have another show that we should talk about. Unless you guys have more to say about the last show of the tour.

[Megan]

No, just that it was on my short list to be released as well. I think it's kind of like, encapsulates the whole tour. I think having also, like, the dude of Life singing Crimes of Mind is just. It's just very 1993. I think it's really, like, perfect.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

What. What. What was your other show? Curious.

[RJ]

So I think this show could be released solo. I think it also could be released as a larger box set, and I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been. We talked about this a little bit in our Summer 95 episode 8, 2093, the first show at Red Rocks. I think it's a really good show. It's very special. You open with Divided sky, immediately go into Harpua. You've got a really cool. It's ice wedge combo, great Antelope to close out set one, I think that that is the best jam of the overall show. But then just reading the set list from second set, 2001, slave, melt, coil, My Friend, My Friend, Chalk Dust, Yem, Purple Rain, Hyhu Cavern. It's like a greatest hits of fish in 1993. I do think there's an argument to be made that Red Rocks 93 to 96 should be released as a full box set.

[Megan]

Oh, that'd be so sick.

[RJ]

There are some regular shows in there, but like between 8, 26, 11, 6, 9, I think it is 95. And then that whole 96 run, that was just insanity and doesn't have like the greatest jamming. But.

[Megan]

No, but it was special.

[RJ]

It was special. And it ruined their ability to play at red rocks until 2009, which then they found dicks. But, you know, like, it's a special period in the band's history. Yeah, jam bands are big enough. You know, Dave Matthews releases an amazing Red rock show from 1995. You just see these bands at this stage have grown to the point that they can play this historic venue at a time when a lot of people are starting to move to Denver, Colorado, and Phish is building kind of a cultural epicenter here. Colorado has always been such a huge destination for the band and you hear them across four years play in this venue and you can just hear the progression and the growth. But I. I think this is just a. An amazing show.

[Brian]

Brian, you didn't specifically mention the best Red Rocks moment of all time. Fish's best Red Rocks moment. In the Rift.

[RJ]

In the rift.

[Brian]

96. You know, in the. In the break.

[Megan]

This.

[Brian]

This is Red Rocks.

[Megan]

This is the Edge.

[Brian]

This is the.

[RJ]

I totally forgot about that. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, my God.

[Brian]

But that's a good point about Colorado.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think that would be sick. I think what's cool about this Red Rock show is it's their debut and they sound ready. Like, they sound ready. And reading like the lore of the show, how it was like this huge storm, they didn't know if it was going to happen. And the sky was like all crazy. And they opened with Divided sky and then they play Harpua and it's just like, yes, that's. It's just so good. And then they've got It's Ice and the Wedge, both, which are on Live Bait, Volume 6. Super classic versions of those songs. Like, so tight, so well played. And yeah, I love the Slave from the show. And the Split Open and Melt's great too. Good. Really good. Show. Highly rated, too.

[Brian]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. It's like. It was a highly circulated tape, too.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Like, really?

[RJ]

4.469.

[Brian]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Brian, I appreciate the parallel between Red Rocks and Dicks. I never really thought about that in terms of, like, the. The continuation of the story, but I am also not surprised that you did. So thank you.

[RJ]

I'm here to build a bridge to any narrative that is necessary.

[Megan]

I also will say that we talked a lot about 8:26, the Portland show, because that was our 40 for 40 show for. For this year. So that's an amazing show. And you can check that out.

[Brian]

It was released here. Was officially released.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

But not the next show from May 28, for some reason.

[RJ]

No.

[Brian]

I don't know why. And so 724, the gray woods show was released. Yeah. That's a. That's probably the best of the. Of the July shows. Do you guys think, or. No.

[Megan]

And kind of historically. Right, like, just released, don't you think, for, like, the historical purposes, like, it's not. Yeah, it's not one of the best shows on this. It's good, but I don't think it's.

[Brian]

A good representation of that. Of that part of the tour with, like, there's like just good versions of everything, but it's not. The August stuff is. There's so much more.

[Megan]

I think it was a sentimental show for them. Seems like I kind of got the.

[RJ]

Impression as well that in 2020 and early 2021, as they were playing these dinner movies, they were already putting the work in to master those shows. So why not just release it at that point? Make it kind of a jump on a live bait or a live fish subscription. And you'll get to watch dinner movie and then listen to the show immediately after. Because you got the Deer Creek release, the Columbus release. Yeah, I think it's a good representation. I think that as we talked about here, like, I think August 2nd has to be released. I don't understand.

[Megan]

That's my number one pick.

[RJ]

Come on.

[Brian]

Yeah, that's fine. I think that's.

[Megan]

I want to hear that. Gin so bad. Officially released.

[Brian]

Listen, I just want to say this comment from YouTube. It's never. It's not too early to start talking about 2028. Brian Brinkman builds bridges. 2028. It's a good comment.

[Megan]

I would totally vote for you, Brian. I would totally vote for you.

[Brian]

I'd like to work with you, you know, like, if you could hire me just as your assistant or something, I.

[RJ]

I will Just say I was told by I'm gonna commit a middle aged couple in. In. In Istanbul in 2007 that I should run for president. And it's always been there in the back of my head. Anytime I get down. I'm like those people told me me whatever I said, whatever, whatever platitudes I threw out, they. They believed it. So you know, if we can get some money going around this thing. I've heard it's pretty expensive to run for president. But I will build whatever bridge you need because I believe in the bipartisan infrastructure bill that is the right policy for middle America and I am here to expand that everywhere.

[Megan]

Yeah, people forget we're all from the Midwest.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

We have like legit Midwest credit.

[Brian]

Um, Brian. I was in Istanbul in 2007 also. Crazy.

[Megan]

That's weird.

[Brian]

Yeah. Either July or August. I can't remember.

[RJ]

Okay. I was there in October. Beautiful country. Beautiful country.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Megan]

I've never been a place that you.

[RJ]

Can eat olives for breakfast. I am just.

[Brian]

I'm here for the breakfast was. The breakfast is amazing. Okay. Any other shows that we want to call out?

[Megan]

I feel like we've talked about a lot but yeah.

[Brian]

Yeah. I'm trying to figure out if there's anything. There's some stuff from July but I think I feel like it's. We can't really go back to July now because I just want to re. Emphasize. Maybe I'll just say this as my takeaway. I got the sense around a two show is really great because of all the reasons you guys said but I think like that week you start to hear them really veering from the song structure like in show by show and it's really pretty awesome. Awesome to hear. I think we've talked about like so many good examples but if you go through and you look at the jam chart versions particularly of Stash Tweezer Bowie, you can hear them start to like discover that sound that you'll hear in 94 and. And it. It really does takes like half the tour to show up. It's pretty cool to hear.

[RJ]

It's an interesting point and it kind of makes me think about this comment that Evie dude left earlier in the chat asking us how we define quote top tours purely on music or overall significance in addition to the music. And I'm curious your guys thoughts on this because to me this tour is the like our positioning of this tour represents I think how we approach this overall task that no one asked us to do. But everyone's here for bated breath. You Know waiting on numbers four through one. So, Meg, what are your thoughts when you think about how to put these tours in some subjective, hopefully one day, objective order? What are you, what are you, what are you, what are you thinking about?

[Megan]

Definitely think about significance. I think so much of what makes these tours important is their role in the evolution of the band. Thinking about some of the tours that we put in from 3.0 and 4.0, they were put there because they marked a turning point or a point of evolution. And the more impactful the evolution, the higher the tour went on the chart. I think for us. And I think this tour is so high because in my opinion, the impact on the. Of the evolution is really strong. And that's kind of my takeaway too, is that I think this is the Tour where type 2 becomes the go to. And that's gonna be Fish's kind of mantra forever. I mean, that's. That's why we're still going to them. So I think this tour specifically, musically, I don't return to it very often at all. It's not like something I want to listen to a lot, but listening to it in the context of this series just showed me how important it is. So I definitely think we think about significance in terms of evolution and context for the band.

[RJ]

What do you guys think, rj, what say you?

[Brian]

I mean, I think, like, it definitely is significance, not just music, but. But I. It's really hard for me to get to, like, think about tours that are more significant to what will happen next than others because. Because the story of Fish has been. It's. It's what it is. It's. It. So, like, I don't know. I, like. I think everybody. Not. Not that every tour is equally important, but we don't know, like, the. I think we've talked about this before. I think even, like, the bad tours are potentially helping them in. In different ways or ways that we don't know, because we don't see the. Like, whether it's communication off the stage or working through things or writing new material or. Or just personal journey. We have four people, not to mention the huge crew that are all, like, probably going through a lot of stuff every day on all these tours. So, like, you don't. I guess what I'm saying is you can hear the music evolve, which I think we all agree, like, in real time, which is awesome. But I think every tour is important to what comes next because that's what ended up happening. So, like, I have a hard time. I have a hard Time rating them in terms of which are more important to what happens next, because they're all important for what happens next. And like, you know, the. The beginning of the fall 96 tour, which is like, kind of like. Like bad that who knows how that, like they were maybe just practicing, you know, remaining light the whole time. And that's why, like, we didn't really get great music. But then you wouldn't get that if you didn't have that. So, like, I don't, but I. But I think that this is. This feels more important because they're bridging the styles all at once. So maybe. Maybe I'm just. Maybe we're all saying the same thing in different ways.

[RJ]

Well, I like that you're giving away to the audience that we are going to do a top 25 bad fish tours, which should be a little bit more challenging, but.

[Megan]

Oh my God.

[Brian]

Really good.

[Megan]

Really good.

[RJ]

Meg, there. There are 14 jam charted entries for this tour equating to 0.75 jams per show. No, I mean, I'm. I fully on the significance train. It's very easy for me to. To put over significance on knows this from years of talking me down from thinking so significantly about minute things.

[Brian]

Never.

[RJ]

I think you're right. The story is still unfolding. We're not at the point where we're looking back and saying what happened. I think that we do know enough of the story to know kind of where certain things changed. And while that can be reassessed in a variety of ways years later, and clearly we've spent over a decade here hashing out nuances of this band's career. When I think about kind of the succession of these tours, I think about it in terms of what happened here that kind of broke the mold on what came before and led to what came in the year or two years afterwards. And in some cases, as we're going to explore in the top three tours what unleashed. And I would say even in this tour, all of what Fish is to come, you know, for the years after that. Breaking through, whatever they worked through on this tour put them in a position where they could. They suddenly had freedom that they could tap into on stage that they would not have had without this.

[Megan]

And I also think just adding one more point is that the top tours make it into this because not only do they have significance and point to evolution, but the music is also good. And I think that's what separates rj. The tours from that were important for them in an evolutionary point that maybe the music wasn't great. This is. It's an evolutionary moment, and the music is good. So I think that's kind of the combination that they have to have. I don't know.

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think. Yeah. I mean, we have four left. Yeah.

[Megan]

Wow.

[Brian]

It's interesting because I. I think that, like, the four we have left are the. Are the parts where they land from these evolutionary moments, as opposed to themselves necessarily being evolutionary moments, even though they all are, obviously.

[Megan]

But I like that.

[RJ]

That is a great, great way to segue into what's coming next because. Yeah, that's nice segue, rj.

[Megan]

That was.

[RJ]

Can I just read my. Sorry, can I just read my big takeaway from this? Because a lot of time crafting this, and I just, of course, love your takeaways. So. This is the biggest and the most consequential shift in Fish's career. This is summer 93. While there will be bigger moments to come that truly cement them as one of the best bands of all time, this is when it becomes clear to them all that they can do. Taking massive risks, landing the trick, while also pushing themselves further than once thought possible, while also capitalizing on all of the work of the last four years while having the best goddamn time night after night. The addictive pill that is Fish is fully realized.

[Megan]

I like that. The addictive pal.

[Brian]

That's awesome.

[RJ]

You saw Fish on this tour. You're like, I have to see this band tomorrow night. I don't care if I have to drive. Yeah, six hours. I think. See them the next night. I have to see the next night. I think that. That while it was there, wasn't as ever present as it is here.

[Brian]

Well, we got. We have four more tours left, and I think all of them represent that feeling. At least the ones I was at, but probably all of them. Hopefully all of them.

[Megan]

Definitely all the ones I was at, too.

[Brian]

Hopefully.

[RJ]

We only have one next week.

[Brian]

Well, we only have one. What I'm going to say, because I think it's probably. I think it's probably obvious what the top four are, but we only have one summer tour left, and that's next week. Brian, what is it?

[RJ]

This is a tour that we got right on with the fans, and I don't know if that means that we got it right or wrong. Hash that out over the next week. It is summer 1998.

[Megan]

Let's go. Summer vibes.

[RJ]

Very summer vibes.

[Brian]

Jukebox, jukebox time.

[Megan]

Yeah, we got covers.

[RJ]

We got some ambient jamming. We got a festival.

[Megan]

Finally. I can Read again.

[RJ]

We got humor. We got one of my favorite fish shows of all time. We got some of my favorite fish jams of all time. But we also have this big question going into next week, and I'd be curious for the audience to. To consider this. Did we overrate or properly rate this tour? Curious people's opinions as we come back, because I'm wrestling with it having just listened through this.

[Brian]

Yeah, it's a Good question.

[Megan]

Oh, for 98. Coming up.

[RJ]

Correct.

[Megan]

Yeah. Okay.

[Brian]

Summer 98 includes one show. The only fish show I've ever been to, when I could not procure any weed no matter what because everyone already left for the festival. Starlink.

[Megan]

That's so funny.

[Brian]

Starling 90s get, like, a joint. You couldn't even get a joint at Star Lake.

[RJ]

And then they go and open with Bob Marley. Yeah, everybody's stone cold sober.

[Brian]

Ridiculous. They probably knew it. They had it all. Megan, is there anything else you want to say about this tour or about our podcast before we wrap it up?

[Megan]

No, I've got to go start listening to summer 98.

[Brian]

Yeah, me too.

[Megan]

Start tonight, starting right now.

[Brian]

Brian listened to it three years ago before we planned this.

[Megan]

Exactly.

[Brian]

All right.

[RJ]

We all listen to these tours. We just. Some of us plan in advance. All right, let's just. Let's just put it out there the way it is.

[Megan]

That's what it is. Just a procrastinator.

[Brian]

We're just. Megan and I are just reading too many books. All right.

[Megan]

Exactly. We're gonna crush and Brian in our book list.

[Brian]

I think we're gonna be back next Monday, the 11th. The 18th. Right.

[RJ]

We're back next Monday to do Summer 98. And then at some point. Do we have our schedule updated for when we're doing our draft?

[Megan]

No, no, I have to talk to you guys about that, but we can talk about it off.

[Brian]

Okay. But we may be. We may also be streaming and premiering a new podcast in the middle of next week, which is our book podcast. So stay tuned if you're interested in that kind of stuff.

[RJ]

What's our book podcast called, rj.

[Brian]

Library card.

[RJ]

Do we know what our first book is, rj?

[Brian]

We do. And you know what? I got a text from a friend who listens who started reading the book in anticipation of us starting. Podcast.

[Megan]

That's awesome.

[Brian]

Book. The Covenant. The Covenant of Water. Which is. It's. It's going to be a fun discussion. It is.

[RJ]

It's.

[Brian]

It's. It's a. It's a. It's a. It's a Wild Ride appropriate for a.

[RJ]

First, I need an outline. I'll tell you what.

[Brian]

Yeah, we're going to have an outline. We're going to have everything. We're going to have everything. We're going to have a host, we're going to have an outline. We're going to have all of it very soon. But. But in the meantime, we'll see you guys next Monday for Summer 98.

[Megan]

Bye bye, everyone. Osiris.

[Unknown]

This is Krista Makes, guitarist and vocalist for Less Than Jake, and host of Krista Makes a Podcast, a songwriting podcast where every week, week I'm joined by an amazing guest to break down the writing, recording and release of one iconic song from their career. In our giant evergreen back catalog of episodes, we've had rock legends such as Dee Snider and Huey Lewis, punk rock favorites like Mark Hoppus, Fat Mike and Brett Gurewitz, and up and coming artists of today such as Liz Stokes of the Beths and Genesis Owusu. We've had guests from all genres and styles of music, and I guarantee that if you peruse our back catalog, you'll see several episodes that'll make you say, man, I gotta hear that. Whether you're a fan of music or a creator of music yourself, you'll take away a whole new appreciation for the songs you know and love. Krista Makes a Podcast is available for free on all the places you could possibly listen to podcasts, and new episodes come out every Monday.

[RJ]

Hey, everyone, it's Chris Pandolfi inviting you to check out the new season of my podcast, Inside the Musician's Brain, with new episodes airing now. Hearing it in that room, these guys.

[Unknown]

Playing this thing and trying to figure out how to play this song was mind blowing. It's so inspiring to know there's so.

[RJ]

Much more to it than you ever thought, and it just opened another door. But when people find faith because they need to in turn, in terms of just filling a void to feel better without actually being better, that's when it becomes a crutch. Much like drugs and alcohol do. Man, I don't have all the time.

[Brian]

In the world here if I want.

[Megan]

To be a professional bluegrass musician.

[RJ]

I felt like I had to take.

[Megan]

A very strategic approach, just trying to.

[RJ]

Get rid of the barriers and figure.

[Brian]

Out what those barriers were. The feelings still come and I have to reckon with that, but I think I have better ways of moving forward and not being stuck, which I think was the killer for me.

[RJ]

Catch all that and so much more on the new season of Inside the Musician's. Brain.