Chaos at the CDC; Katrina, 20 years later

Summary

Here's the Scoop – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Chaos at the CDC; Katrina, 20 Years Later
Host: Brian Chung
Date: August 29, 2025

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of NBC News’ “Here’s the Scoop” dives into two urgent and reflective stories:

1. Unprecedented turmoil at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): Reports detail a wave of firings and resignations at the highest level, raising concerns about the politicization of public health and the agency’s future.
2. 20 Years Since Hurricane Katrina: Former Nightly News anchor Lester Holt revisits his experience covering the devastation, the human toll, and the lasting impact on New Orleans and journalism as a whole.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Turmoil at the CDC (00:31–08:00)

Major Personnel Shakeups

• Wave of Departures: Recent firing of CDC Director Susan Minares, reportedly for refusing to enact politically driven changes to vaccine policy, triggered the resignation of four additional senior leaders.

  • Quote: “I have covered the CDC for 20 years and I've never seen this kind of chaos…”
    — Erica Edwards, NBC Health Reporter (01:47)

• Background: Minares was allegedly pressured by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (“RFK Jr.”), to fire top CDC staff and push anti-vaccine directives. She refused and was let go.

• Public Outcry: Hundreds of current and former CDC staffers, along with citizens, protested outside CDC headquarters in defense of science-based policies and leadership.

• Pattern of Political Interference: Since the Trump administration took office, there have been steep funding cuts, office closures, and a purge of the influential ACIP (vaccine) advisory panel, replaced with less conventional voices.

  • Quote: “What happened this week is that... Susan Monarz was called to HHS… was told to fire top level staff and to make changes to vaccine recommendations she didn’t agree with. She was fired on Wednesday because of this…”
    — Erica Edwards (01:52)

New Leadership Raises Alarm

• Jim O’Neill Named Acting CDC Director: O’Neill – a former speechwriter with no medical training, known for vaccine skepticism and close ties to RFK Jr. – now holds dual posts as Deputy Health Secretary and acting CDC director.
  • Quote: “He does not have any medical training… he was a speechwriter… CDC insiders that I'm talking to are a little unsure about how this is all going to play out…”
    — Erica Edwards (03:56)

Kennedy’s “Make America Healthy Again” Agenda

• Nutrition Initiatives: RFK Jr.’s emphasis on nutritional education garners some approval from medical professionals but skepticism regarding execution and real-world impact.
  • Quote: “This week what happened was HHS Secretary Kennedy came out and said that he would start pushing medical schools to incorporate more nutritional curricula…The problem…is in the execution…”
    — Erica Edwards (05:28)
• Practical Barriers: Doctors struggle to fit nutrition advice into short consultations and cannot bill for such services, limiting change in patient interactions.

What’s Next for the CDC?

• The acting director holds power but must step back from daily operations upon official nomination until the Senate confirms them. In this interim, Secretary Kennedy exerts significant influence.
  • Quote: “Once that person becomes the official presidential nominee… the rule is that that director has no more contact with CDC staffers. They’re sort of on standby…”
    — Erica Edwards (06:28)
• A Tumultuous Chapter: Even compared to the challenges of COVID-19, insiders see these events as “an era in great turmoil” with renewed loss of trust and morale.
  • Quote: “Now with this new administration once again undermining everything the CDC does…that’s what’s really led them down this path again of just being very overwhelmed with really grief.”
    — Erica Edwards (07:03)

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2. Hurricane Katrina: 20 Years Later (09:58–16:04)

Lester Holt Recounts His Experience

• Deployment to Louisiana: Holt describes being called off vacation to cover the hurricane with little warning, reflecting the newsroom’s initial underestimation of the storm.
  • Quote: “I remember saying, what's Katrina?...Went right into Baton Rouge…There was a statement from the National Weather Service…laying out in the most graphic…horrific terms of what this hurricane would likely bring.”
    — Lester Holt (10:53–11:27)
• Arrival and Realization: Initial impressions suggested Katrina wasn’t catastrophic—until reports of New Orleans’ flooding hit.
• Visceral Memories: Seeing spray-painted casualty counts on buildings (“a real eye opener”), and the despair of displaced residents.
  • Quote: “There was some spray paint message…giving the count of casualties in that particular building. I remember that was…a real eye opener.”
    — Lester Holt (12:14–12:35)

The Human and Social Toll

• Personal Stories: Holt recalls following a family as they evacuated for the second time, their uncertainty and distress emblematic of the wider crisis.
  • Quote: “I don't want to leave y'all.”
    — Evacuee, via Lester Holt’s reporting (13:06–13:08)
• Systemic Shortcomings: Shelters struggled to meet basic needs; preparation and response were inadequate for the scale of displacement.
• Language and Race: Discussion of whether to use the word “refugees” for Americans; the sense of abandonment, particularly among marginalized communities.
  • Quote: “That sense of abandonment of Americans in an American city was a big part of this story. There was certainly a racial component to it.”
    — Lester Holt (13:32)

Lasting Impact and Reflections

• Emotional Response: Holt describes profound shame witnessing the suffering, isolation, and desperation of so many citizens after the levees broke.

  • Quote: “It felt shameful to me…to watch people on their rooftops, cutting holes in the roof to get out and being hoisted on helicopters. It just felt like another place.”
    — Lester Holt (14:15)

• Katrina’s Legacy: For Holt, Katrina remains one of the most memorable stories of his career—a turning point for American journalism and national disaster response.

  • Quote: “Katrina does stand out to me. Just from that moment…looking at our blackberries and getting this vivid description…It's a reminder that what we do is dangerous.”
    — Lester Holt (15:02)

• Unforgettable Images: The faces and predicament of those left stranded on rooftops continue to haunt and inspire ongoing reporting.

  • Quote: “I think it would have to be the first images of people on their roofs waiting for rescue...true desperation.”
    — Lester Holt (15:48)

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3. Rapid Headlines (16:08–18:29)

(Brief highlights covered after Katrina segment)

• Federal Reserve Legal Battle: An ongoing court hearing over President Trump’s attempted firing of Fed Governor Lisa Cook; no resolution yet.

• Middle East Update: Israel stages initial assaults in Gaza, drawing criticism and grave concerns about humanitarian fallout from international allies.

• College Football Spotlight: Attention centers on Arch Manning’s debut for Texas in a high-profile match.

• New Orleans Rebuild: Trombone Shorty remembers the first parade after Katrina, capturing the city’s resilience and the healing power of music.

  • Quote: “Once they hear that tuba and the snare drum…It just shows you how important this city is…we’re a resilient city. And as long as we got the brass band, we’ll play anywhere.”
    — Trombone Shorty (18:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I have covered the CDC for 20 years and I've never seen this kind of chaos at the CDC.”
  — Erica Edwards (01:47)
• “It was like a thousand different paper cuts.”
  — Erica Edwards, describing cumulative CDC challenges (02:47)
• “The sense of abandonment of Americans in an American city was a big part of this story. There was certainly a racial component to it.”
  — Lester Holt (13:32)
• “It felt shameful to me…to watch people on their rooftops...It just felt like another place.”
  — Lester Holt (14:15)
• “I think it would have to be the first images of people on their roofs waiting for rescue...true desperation.”
  — Lester Holt (15:48)
• “We’re a resilient city. And as long as we got the brass band, we’ll play anywhere.”
  — Trombone Shorty (18:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• CDC Turmoil & Resignations: 00:31–08:00
• Hurricane Katrina Retrospective (Interview with Lester Holt): 09:58–16:04
• Rapid-fire News Headlines: 16:08–18:29
• Closing Reflection (Trombone Shorty): 18:29–19:02

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Tone and Language

The tone of the episode is clear, urgent, and reflective. The CDC segment is marked by concern and analysis, while the Katrina anniversary conversation is somber, personal, and heartfelt, echoing the voices and struggles of the people affected.

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This episode offers a granular view of national institutions under pressure—both from internal politics and from overwhelming natural forces—through frank, first-hand reporting and resonant personal narratives.

Transcript

[Erica Edwards]

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[Brian Chung]

Welcome to here's the Scoop. I'm Brian Chung. And good news, it's the Friday before Labor Day. But before you get the grill fired up or kiss goodbye to summer, I'm sorry, but it's true. We've got quite the lineup for you today. We've got the latest legal battle between President Trump and the Fed. We've got a scouting report on the new Manning man in football. And we'll also mark the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Katrina with the Look Back with our own Lester Holt. But first, call it chaos at our federal health agencies. The latest personnel switch at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where the White House tapped Jim o' Neill as acting director. He's a longtime vaccine skeptic and deputy to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. And now he's slated to lead the agency responsible for, well, recommendations on vaccine use. His promotion comes just days after the firing of Susan Minares, who lasted only weeks in the job, as well as the resignations of four other senior leaders. Now hundreds of current and former CDC staffers are protesting outside headquarters warning that public health is at risk of being undermined by politics. Here with new details about Director Minares firing and a larger picture of what's going on at the cdc. NBC News health and medical reporter Erica Edwards. Hey, Erica.

[Erica Edwards]

Hey, Brian.

[Brian Chung]

So can you recap for us the exodus of all of these public health officials?

[Erica Edwards]

Gosh, yes. And Brian, I have to first start by saying, you know, I have covered the CDC for 20 years and I've never seen this kind of chaos at the cdc. So what happened this week is that according to her lawyers, Susan Monarz was called to hhs. Secretary Kennedy's office was told to fire top level staff and to make changes to vaccine recommendations that she didn't agree with. She was fired on Wednesday because of this. And in protest, we saw four other major heads, major leaders at the cdc resign. I mean, people who were in charge of infectious diseases and vaccines really at the forefront of watching all of these illnesses that, you know, that's what they're tasked to do. Hundreds of former CDC staffers, everyday citizens, went to the CDC on Thursday to protest everything that was going on.

[Brian Chung]

So you mentioned you've never seen anything like this, this many public health officials kind of leaving the door at the same time. What is it over?

[Erica Edwards]

It was like a thousand different paper cuts. When the Trump administration first began in January, CDC was faced with major cuts. Whole offices were shut down. Then Secretary Kennedy fired members, and we've heard it before, this, this influential independent vaccine panel, it's called ACIP for short. And Secretary Kennedy came in, fired all of these folks and put in folks of his own. What is happening now though, that really kind of was the final straw is that that group, that ACIP group is scheduled to meet again next month to talk again about vaccines. And according to Susan Menarez's lawyers and folks who have directly with her this week, there is a directive to move forward with some anti vaccine sentiments surrounding this meeting and Susan Minara simply refused to do it.

[Brian Chung]

What does that tell us about how the CDC might be changing given that this new acting director, Jim o', Neill, is someone who has publicly expressed similar skepticism about vaccines as his now boss.

[Erica Edwards]

RFK Jr. An acting director still, really, that's a big job, right? It's kind of like the full director because you really have to be in the know about everything, especially as we're dealing with things like measles outbreaks. Jim o' Neill is also serving as Deputy Health Secretary. So he's holding his job there as well as taking on this massive new role within the cdc. He does not have any medical training. He's not a scientist, he's not a physician. He was a speechwriter and the Department of Health under the George W. Bush years. The CDC insiders that I'm talking to are a little unsure about how this is all going to play out as they continue their own research.

[Brian Chung]

Tell us about the totality of all of these personnel changes. We hear RFK Jr talk a lot about making America healthy again. Maha. Is the turnover in these high ranking officials in public health positions part of him executing on that MAHA agenda?

[Erica Edwards]

You know, I think that in the beginning, doctors, physicians, scientists were sort of all in on. Yeah, let's, let's make America healthy. Sure. We have a lot of improvements to make. Right. We have skyrocketing cases of obesity, heart disease, type 2 diabetes. So of course, all of these things are things that doctors want to focus on. And certainly Kennedy's focus on nutrition has also been pretty well received.

[Brian Chung]

So can you talk a little bit more about Secretary Kennedy's new guidance on nutrition that just came out this week.

[Erica Edwards]

This week what happened was HHS Secretary Kennedy came out and said that he would start pushing medical schools to incorporate more nutritional curricula in their programs. I'd be hard pressed to find a, any doctor or scientist in this country who would say that nutrition diet isn't important. The problem that some doctors are saying is sort of lies in the execution of this, right? Do physicians right now, as they walk into doctors appointments with patients, do they really have time to talk about how great apples are when they really have a limited amount of time with each person who comes in generally with very complicated problems? Because right now doctors can't even bill if they are talking about nutrition in general.

[Brian Chung]

So Erica, what happens next with the cdc? This is an acting director that's being put in place. Is there going to be some nomination for a permanent replacement? That would have to be Senate confirmed at some point.

[Erica Edwards]

You have an acting director, right? Who's there doing the job every day. Once that person becomes the official presidential nominee to become the CDC director at that point, the rule is that that director has no more contact with CDC staffers. They're sort of on standby, in limbo before they are officially okayed by the Senate. And that's when HHS Secretary Kennedy tends to come in and sort of control things at cdc, if you will.

[Brian Chung]

If you were to describe this chapter in the CDC's history, how would you describe it?

[Erica Edwards]

I would say it's one in great turmoil, one that they hadn't seen in, in years and years and that includes the pandemic. Now let's be clear, the CD made some whoppers of mistakes during the pandemic, right? Waffling on guidance. And I talked with many, many staffers and people in leadership after the pandemic who all admitted that mistakes had been made and they were really committed to rebuilding that trust. So there was like a little bit of an upswing in attitude. And now with this new administration once again undermining everything the CDC does, which let me be clear, CDC is not perfect, right? But undermining some of that science based sort of fact work that they do, that's what's really led them down this path again of just being very overwhelmed with really grief.

[Brian Chung]

NBC News health and medical reporter Erica Edwards, thanks so much.

[Erica Edwards]

Thank you.

[Brian Chung]

When we come back, it's been 20 years since the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, Florida. Former Nightly News anchor Lester Holt was on the ground as the storm blew in and says he'll never forget what he saw. We'll be right back.

[Lester Holt]

I'M Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll join us for season four of Dateline Missing in America. In each episode of dateline's award winning series, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators, all desperate to find them. You will want to listen closely. Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery. DATELINE Missing in America.

[Podcast Announcer]

All episodes available now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Snow]

So, folks, you might have noticed the weather's changing out there. The sun appears to be out. The days are longer. This is in the northern hemisphere, of course, and it's got me excited for road trips, days out exploring and long walks to castles on windswept crags. And if you're looking forward to all that, too, I've got the perfect companion podcast to join you on your adventures this summer. I'm Dan Snow, host of the Dan Snow's History Hit podcast, where I whisk you away into the greatest stories in history. Join me on the high seas as we follow the swashbuckling escapades of Francis Drake. On the Spanish Main, we unravel the myths of of the Spartans at the Battle of Thermopylae. I'll tell you everything you need to know about how the American Revolution started and what it would have taken for you to survive the Black Death in medieval Europe. Rackets, luck. This is the podcast you need if you seek to escape into history. And we can all use a little escape at the moment. Check out Dan Snow's history wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Chung]

And we're back with here's the Scoop. It was 20 years ago when Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast. That storm's impact still rippling today across New Orleans and Beyond. More than 1800 lives were lost and a million people displaced as entire neighborhoods were wiped away. My co host, Yasmin Vasugyan, sat down with Lester Holt, former anchor and managing editor of Nightly News and the current anchor of Dateline to look back on those days in 2005.

[Lester Holt]

This point, events are beyond their control. What they can control is what happens after the storm passes. They have.

[Brian Chung]

He reflects on the tragedy, the resilience that followed and the lessons still with us today.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Lester, it's good to have you.

[Lester Holt]

Good to be here.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

20 years since we saw those terrifying images of Katrina. You got the call from Embassy News to head down to Louisiana to cover this hurricane. You were actually in Baton Rouge when the hurricane actually hit?

[Lester Holt]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Tell me about what you were expecting.

[Lester Holt]

Well, I was on vacation.

[Brian Chung]

Wow.

[Lester Holt]

On the West Coast But I wasn't really focused on it because I was having a good time being off. Got back to New York. I think it was Sunday morning. I woke up and phone's ringing. We have a charter plane standing by with the crews and folks, and you need to get out, head to Katrina. And I remember saying, what's Katrina? And they describe this big hurricane. So got to the airport. We went right into Baton Rouge, where the team was all kind of looking at our blackberries back then, if you remember what that is.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Yes.

[Lester Holt]

And we were all being assigned different places to go to fan out. I was to stay in Baton Rouge. And what struck us all as we looked at our blackberries, there was a statement from the National Weather Service, and it basically was laying out in the most graphic terms, horrific terms of what this hurricane would likely bring in terms of death and destruction. It all really caught us all by surprise. We weren't expecting it. Storm came through. It wasn't horrific. We were able to stand through it. But for that period of time, at least, we thought that was Katrina, that we had seen the worst face of Katrina. And then, of course, we began hearing.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Reports from New Orleans that really became the story. So as you made your way, Lester, towards New Orleans, what did you see?

[Lester Holt]

When we got into the heart of New Orleans again, in the Garden District, we could see a lot of the flooding hadn't receded. And I think one of the first things that caught my eye as we were outside a vehicle shooting, and I looked down on the sidewalk, and there was some spray paint message. And it took me a second to realize what I was seeing. And it was giving the count of casualties in that particular building.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Wow.

[Lester Holt]

I remember that was. That was a real eye opener.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Are there any conversations that you can recount for us that can describe the state of mind for some of the individuals that had survived Katrina?

[Lester Holt]

I remember one of the assignments I had when I was there was following a family as they made their way out. They were going to Houston for the second time in just over a week. Paula Hardin and her family are packing up and leaving the place, place they call home.

[Brian Chung]

I don't want to leave y'. All.

[Lester Holt]

We got to Houston, and, you know, there were obviously shelters in place there that people were being relocated. But you always had the sense that this was not planned for in the way that we might have hoped. It was really hard to get a sense of what the need was and how to respond to that need.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

A lot of folks suffered at the time for a long, extended period of time. And we saw much of that suffering at recovery centers.

[Lester Holt]

I remember being part of a conversation with another correspondent. We were talking about something as simple as, how do you describe folks who have gone through this? Are they refugees? Because we think of refugees as A, in different countries, and B, people who have perhaps been in a war zone. That sense of abandonment of Americans in an American city was a big part of this story. There was certainly a racial component to it. Would this have happened in another neighborhood, in another place, at another time? We'll never know. Answer to that.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

If you take your reporter hat off for a moment, Lester, and your anchor hat off for a moment. As a person, as Lester Holt, covering Katrina, what was it like for you?

[Lester Holt]

You know, it felt shameful to me. You know, nature's nature and nature's going to do what it's going to do, but it felt like to watch people on their roofs, rooftops, cutting holes in the roof to get out and being hoisted on helicopters. It just felt like another place. You can argue that I'm being a little arrogant and a little, you know. You know that we're different because we're Americans. But the fact of the matter is, I think you just tend to expect better and, you know, to watch people, you know, walking along the highways with. With no particular destination other than to get out, to get to a place where there is food, it was pretty horrifying.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

You've covered a lot of storms since then.

[Lester Holt]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

As anchor of nightly news for 10 years, does Katrina stand out to you?

[Lester Holt]

Katrina does stand out to me. Just from that moment I described when we were all looking at our blackberries and getting this vivid description of what we were walking into. I'm a little less bold than hurricanes. Part of that's just a product of getting older. You're like, do I really need to stand out here this close to the beach to make the point? It's a reminder that what we do is dangerous. I think we had an important role to play. It was, in some ways a really good moment for journalism. The effect of our storytelling, our ability to get into places, it's one I won't forget.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

If there's an image that you can describe for us that sticks out in your mind when you think of Katrina, what is it?

[Lester Holt]

I think it would have to be the first images of people on their roofs waiting for rescue. I think those were just scenes you just can't forget of people in. I mean, true desperation. True desperation.

[Yasmin Vasugyan]

Lester Holt, thank you.

[Lester Holt]

Good to be with you.

[Brian Chung]

Truly hard to believe that was 20 years ago. All right, well, let's move on to the headlines. First up, the drama at the Fed continues to bubble as a federal court hearing over whether to grant a restraining order to temporarily block the president from firing Federal Reserve governor Governor Lisa Cook ended with no decision today. Both sides will be allowed to submit follow up filings over the holiday weekend. And in case you missed it, the Trump administration claims that Cook committed mortgage fraud and tried to oust her earlier this month. Cook, on the other hand, denies those claims, and she hit back with a lawsuit against the administration, pointing to Trump's ongoing pressure to push the Fed to cut its crucial interest rate. We'll be watching to see whether a judge makes her decision next week. Israel declared Gaza's largest city a dangerous combat zone as it launched the initial stages of its assault on the famine stricken area, saying its forces had recovered the remains of two hostages, Elon Weiss, and another whose identity has not yet been released. Unrwa, the UN Agency for Palestinian refugees, warned that the intensifying campaign would displace thousands more residents. France, Britain, Canada and Australia sharply criticized Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's plans for the sweeping offensive, raising alarms it'll worsen an already dire humanitarian crisis in the enclave. The Israel Defense Forces also said it is suspending daily humanitarian pauses during the battle for Gaza City and friends. College football is back, but pay attention to one particular matchup. That is tomorrow's Ohio State matchup against Texas. Not just because it's number three versus number one, but because there's new royalty in the house. Arch Manning. Yep, that's right. The Mannings are back in football and Arch is the nephew of legends Peyton and Eli. And if you thought the similarities end at just the name, well, think again. Because Arch is ranked number one in Texas and already one of the most talked about players in college football. Make no mistake about it. Pro teams are already watching closely to Arch's freshman season, according to NFL draft analyst Connor Rodgers. How's that for some first year pressure? Go get a march and hook em horns. Although I didn't go to Texas, went to Syracuse. We closed tonight by returning to New Orleans. Trombone player Troy Andrews, better known as Trombone Shorty, recalls the first time he played after Katrina, when music turned grief into hope.

[Podcast Announcer]

When the Reaper Brass band came back and did the parade, you could still see cars flipped over the houses with the X's and you could just see people crying. And once they hear that tube in the snare drum. Someone ate a po boy and it just had tears in their eyes. It just shows you how important this city is. New Orleans is like a country of its own. You know, we speak differently. We got our own food. We move different. We're a resilient city. And as long as we got the brass band, we'll play anywhere.

[Brian Chung]

For more anniversary coverage of Hurricane Katrina, tune in to NIGHTLY News with Tom Yamas tonight. That's going to do it for us at here's the scoop. Thanks for listening. I'm Brian Chung.

[Julio Vaqueiro]

I'm Julio Vaqueiro, anchor of Noticias Telemundo. You can watch Dateline, the hit true crime series on Telemundo. And now you can listen to Daedline as a podcast. Stories of love and betrayal, of secrets revealed of the men and women who stand between evil and justice. Every twist and turn can now be heard in Spanish with new mysteries arriving every week. Just search Dateline en Espanol wherever you get your podcasts and start listening.