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Here's the Scoop
Charlie Kirk’s legacy; Online radicalization happening “much faster than it used to”
00:19:37
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- [00:00]
Kristen Welker
This week only on MEET THE press, as President Trump tests the legal limits of his power from trade to immigration. Kristen Welker sits down with Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, Governor Wes Moore and Senator Cory Booker. Plus, Steve Kornacki breaks down a new poll this week only on MEET THE press. Listen to the full episode now, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:25]
Yasmin Vesugin
Hey, everybody, and welcome to here's the scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Vesugin. Today. Today marks 24 years since our country was rocked by the September 11th attacks, a moment that forever reshaped how Americans think about terrorism. For years, the focus was on threats, terrorism or otherwise, from overseas. But over time, the lens has shifted inward. And that is where our attention is today as the nation grapples with the shocking assassination of MAGA activist Charlie Kirk. He was killed yesterday in Utah in what investigators are calling a targeted attack. Authorities have just released photos of a person of interest, someone who looks college aged, wearing a black hat, glasses and a long sleeve shirt. We are dedicating much of today's show to what happened to Kirk and what it says about where America is right now, beginning with our national law enforcement and intelligence correspondent Tom Winter, who's been following the investigation.
- [01:18]
Tom Winter
What law enforcement's been able to do here is really what all good investigators say that you should do, which is you need to develop a timeline. And thanks to life in 2020, that's largely accomplished by surveillance video. So what authorities have said publicly so far on the record is that they have video of him arriving at campus, video of him on the roof where he takes the shot at Charlie Kirk. They have video of him leaving the campus, apparently jumping off the roof, then going into the neighborhood where they're able to use some neighborhood footage from people's homes to be able to then track his movements from there.
- [01:51]
Yasmin Vesugin
And as the manhunt continues, we wanted to take a moment to break down Charlie Kirk's life and what his death will mean for the MAGA movement he was so intertwined with. I'm going to bring in NBC White House correspondent Vaughn Hilliard. Vaughn, thanks for being here.
- [02:05]
Vaughn Hilliard
Hey, Yasmin, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
- [02:07]
Yasmin Vesugin
What is the legacy of Charlie Kirk? Who was he?
- [02:09]
Craig Melvin
Vaughn?
- [02:10]
Vaughn Hilliard
If you go back and look at the history of MAGA and the rise of Donald Trump, I mean, maybe we look at this moment 40, 50 years from now, even Charlie Kirk was absolutely a legend of this movement. I've been covering it since the very beginning back in 2015, 2016. And that's really when his organization, they call it Turning Point usa. It's based out of Arizona. It really kind of latched itself onto the Trump campaign in 2016 and really rose to greater notoriety. He became more of a vocal presence at that point in time, somebody who very much made a large segment, we should be very clear of the Republican Party uncomfortable. And in many ways, if you look at the trajectory of his rise, this is a moment where he helped shape today's modern Republican Party. J.D. vance. I was out in Ohio, Ohio, back in 2022, when Vance was first running for the U.S. senate, there was a competitive Republican primary, and J.D. vance narrowly won it. And that night that he won, he credited people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz. But the other person was Charlie Kirk, who was out on the campaign trail with them those final days. So, in many ways, Charlie Kirk rose with the MAGA movement, and the MAGA movement rose with Charlie Kirk.
- [03:28]
Yasmin Vesugin
I mean, by the way, when you talk about him being on the campaign trail with JD Vance when he was running for Senate, I mean, he was only 28 years old at the time, right? He was 31 years old when he was killed yesterday, which I think is astounding to think about. He started Turning Point as a teenager, Right.
- [03:43]
Vaughn Hilliard
And in so many ways, there's been a conversation over the years about what will the MAGA movement, what will the Republican Party look like after Trump? And my response would be, look, Charlie Kirk is 31 years old. You talk about those college tours that he'd go on around the country. Not only was he building a social media influence campaign, but he was also effectively recruiting a new generation of Republican staffers. He made the Republican Party, to a certain extent, in 2024, cool to be a part of again. Right? The events that Turning Point usa, his organization, would hold around the country and that candidate Trump would come to effectively. They were Trump rallies, but there were events where they'd have sparklers, right? And big, loud music. It was in an event, it was a production. That was not a typical campaign rally where, you know, somebody would come up and take the microphone and say, all right, here's our candidate. That's not what he was creating. He was creating something that was much more viscerally appealing to be a part of, and that was a segue to influence those conservative ideals on this younger generation that in no small part helped in being responsible for Donald Trump getting back into the White House.
- [05:00]
Yasmin Vesugin
What are some of Charlie Kirk's beliefs? What platform is Charlie Kirk known for?
- [05:05]
Vaughn Hilliard
Charlie has really pushed the Republican Party in A direction in which it's become very much entangled with major cultural issues of today. He has been very, very outspoken on transgender individuals.
- [05:20]
Charlie Kirk (quoted statements)
We need to make it a goal. Hopefully by the end of this administration, we are going to end every gender affirming care clinic and child butch in this country. We're not going to allow it to happen.
- [05:31]
Vaughn Hilliard
He had repeatedly attacked Volodymyr Zelensky and whether the US Was appropriately invested in the war against Ukraine.
- [05:40]
Charlie Kirk (quoted statements)
I want you to think about how sinister that is. Basically Zelensky is saying, I know my country will fall if this war continues and you don't keep on giving me weapons, but you're going to be to blame and I will sacrifice my own people. That's demented stuff.
- [05:55]
Vaughn Hilliard
He, at the time of the engagement of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce in August, pushed back against the idea of what feminism is.
- [06:05]
Charlie Kirk (quoted statements)
Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor, you're not in charge.
- [06:10]
Vaughn Hilliard
He was also the one who initially spread the erroneous social media post back last year that pets were being eaten by Haitian immigrants in Ohio.
- [06:21]
Charlie Kirk (quoted statements)
Can I. Can I just talk about Springfield, Ohio, really quick? Which. With. With the. You. The Haitian cat eaters that are coming in, by the way, I did not anticipate us talking about cats this much in the 2024 election. It's just really amazing.
- [06:35]
Vaughn Hilliard
And the table, the setup that he had at that college campus in Utah yesterday was the prove me wrong table, where effectively he would welcome somebody to the microphone to share a thought and debate him. And that is beyond the tragedy of a wife losing her husband and two children losing their father. There's the tragedy that here in the U.S. politically, words should and can very much so be debated. And Charlie Kirk did not run away from the fight. He knew that he was creating a debate in American society and one that he was eager to create. Look, Charlie Kirk's words made a lot of people uncomfortable. Great many people found them very offensive. But the mere ability to debate them and to debate those words is integral to our democracy and our ability to go step foot on a college campus and open up a microphone and to have an exchange of those ideas and those views. And this week, that was taken from Charlie Kirk. It was taken from the conservative movement and was taken from America as a whole, because we've seen here over the last 10, 10 plus years arise in political violence. This is a moment where I've had conversations over the last hours with folks that work in politics, Republican and Democrat, and there's a fear of what's next and where does this go from here? And how does society in America move forward with its politics? It feels like not just a loss of Charlie Kirk, but it's a loss of and it's a fear of the ability to effectively communicate and debate in the year of 2020. And it's only becoming harder.
- [08:30]
Yasmin Vesugin
Vaughn Hilliard, thank you.
- [08:32]
Vaughn Hilliard
Thanks, Yasmin. I appreciate it.
- [08:34]
Yasmin Vesugin
And with that coming up next, we're going to talk about how this happened and what is next.
- [08:45]
Don Wildman
What started the Civil War, what ended the conflict in Vietnam? Who was Paul Revere? And did the Vikings ever reach America? Don I'm Don Wildman. And on American History hit my expert guests and I are journeying across the nation and through the years to uncover the stories that have made America. We'll visit the battlefields and debate floors where the nation was formed, meet the characters who have altered it with their touch and count the votes that have changed the direction of our laws and leadership. Find American History hit twice a week, every week, wherever you get your podcasts. American History Hip. A podcast from History Hip.
- [09:32]
Strict Scrutiny Podcast Host
This Supreme Court term isn't business as usual. It's a full blown battle over democracy. Justices are shattering precedent, grabbing power, and even turning on their own. It's messy, it's high stakes, and it's already reshaping how this country works. And our podcast, Strict Scrutiny breaks it all down legally, clearly, and with just the right amount of side eye. New episodes drop every Monday. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.
- [10:01]
Yasmin Vesugin
And we're back with here's the scoop from NBC News. There are still big questions about how security and law enforcement responded to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. The scrutiny is especially intense as the country confronts a surge in radicalization and political violence. I want to bring in senior executive editor for national security and law for NBC News, David Rhode. Hi, David.
- [10:23]
David Rhode
Hi. Thanks for having me.
- [10:24]
Yasmin Vesugin
So, David, we heard from witnesses, police officers as well, who spoke of the lack of a major security presence for Charlie Kirk. During the news conference last night, the UVU police chief said there were about six police officers and then, quote, some plainclothes police officers in the crowd as well. We also know Kirk himself had about nine or ten personal security guards as well. Is that typical for a crowd size? About 3,000 or so attendees?
- [10:51]
David Rhode
That is. And that's the challenge here. When you have high powered rifles that can shoot from so far away, you need to secure a huge perimeter around thousands of people. I don't blame Kirk or his security people at all. This is a tragedy he was assassinated. But this is the reality of trying to secure an outdoor gathering in this day and age, you just can't do it effectively unless you have the resources of a president. And as we saw in Butler, Pennsylvania, sometimes that isn't enough as well.
- [11:18]
Yasmin Vesugin
When things like this happen, whether it be an assassination, an attempted assassination, and or a mass shooting, we talk a lot about copycats. And something that stands out in my mind is, of course, the shooting of the UnitedHealthcare CEO. And in some circles across this country and across the world, he was celebrated for going up against power, in a way. And the prosecutor in the case said, and I quote, simply put, the defendant hoped to normalize the use of violence to achieve ideological or political objectives. What do you make of that?
- [11:56]
David Rhode
That is the definition of terrorism, actually. The use of violence to achieve your political goals, particularly the use of violence against unarmed people. Given the several recent attacks, that's a concern, that we could have copycats, that there's other people going out there. Many of them appear to be young men who are going out and carrying out these kinds of attacks. And one thing that, again, our colleagues have noticed who covered law enforcement, is that the radicalization process, often because people are interacting with those online, is much faster than it used to be. And the different motivations are much more diverse. The young man who tried to go to the NFL offices in New York felt he had brain injury from playing football. There was another young man who built a huge car bomb in Palm Springs that went off outside a fertility clinic. He was an antinatalist. He believed there were too many babies being born in the world. So that's just a reflection of all the different. The radicalization and then the weaponry and tactics that these young people are using.
- [12:57]
Yasmin Vesugin
We are used to seeing these overseas historically, right. Achieving political ends through violent means. Yet we are seeing it more and more now domestically here in the United States. And including to that list, I think a lot of folks would say much of it began with Charlottesville. And then there was the attempted kidnapping of Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan. There was the attack on then speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi's husband. There was the setting fire to Governor Shapiro's mansion. There was the targeted shooting of the Minnesota lawmakers. We could go on and on. The narrative has now changed from this only happens outside the United States to it's happening here.
- [13:40]
David Rhode
And you had the Republican softball practice. I'm here in Washington, just over the river in Northern Virginia where Steve Scalise was nearly killed. You had Two assassination attempts on President Trump. And I'm just making the point that people are resorting to violence from all sides of different debates and movements. And what causes them, how you track them, how you stop them is an enormous challenge for law enforcement.
- [14:06]
Yasmin Vesugin
I know you've been speaking to a lot of folks pertaining to this, this increased political violence here in this country. And there is a sense that it's happening more now than ever because it is, in a way, being normalized on social media.
- [14:21]
David Rhode
One person I talked to, and he gave me a really good perspective on this. His name is Glenn Gerstel. He's actually the former general counsel of the National Security agenc. And I think we should pause. I don't know if this is the most violence ever. I mean, the United States has had horrific divisions in the country. Most Americans in any conflict died in the Civil War. And then in the 60s, you had, you know, the assassinations of the Kennedy brothers, of Martin Luther King. We haven't always gotten along, and there's been deep, deep divisions. But he feels that the different ingredient now is social media. And what's so unusual about it is that it's anonymous. He feels that that social media tends to stoke division. It sustains division. It'll be more difficult for us to sort of return to an era of less violence when social media is so much a part of our lives.
- [15:10]
Yasmin Vesugin
So what does he think we should do about it?
- [15:12]
David Rhode
I think, and others have said this, but that there's a moment for leadership. There's a moment for political leaders to come forward. People are scared. People want stability. People want to raise their families and have successful lives and careers and not have to fear this kind of violence. These are extraordinary times, and maybe extraordinary leadership will help.
- [15:33]
Yasmin Vesugin
David Rode, there's a reason why I wanted to talk to you today. Thank you.
- [15:37]
David Rhode
Thank you.
- [15:39]
Yasmin Vesugin
All right, let's get to some headlines. We got some fresh numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics this morning. And inflation is still that clingy ax that just will not leave. Consumer prices rose 4. 10 of a percent last month. Strip out food and energy, because who needs to eat or drive anyway? And inflation's running at 3.1% year over year. That is the highest reading since February. And the third straight month prices have inched higher. But here is the twist. Wall street still thinks the Fed is going to cut rates next week. So higher prices and lower borrowing costs. Don't worry, we're going to be breaking down what that could mean in future episodes. We have got an update on that ice rate at Hyundai's new battery plant in Georgia. About 300 South Korean nationals who were detained last week have now been released. The aboard a chartered flight out of Atlanta headed home. Their departure was arranged by Seoul in coordination with U.S. officials as a, quote, voluntary departure. But the fallout is still being felt. Images of workers in shackles at a South Korean funded construction site have been circulating back home all week, sparking outrage. And early today, President Lee Hae Myung warned the raid could strain business ties between South Korea and the U.S. britain has fired its ambassador to Washington, Peter Mandelson, after new revelations about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Emails released by the House Oversight Committee show Mandelson's relationship with the convicted sex offender was allegedly much closer than previously acknowledged, including a letter in a birthday book where Mendelson referred to Epstein as his, quote, best pal. Prime Minister Keir Starmer called the connection unacceptable and ordered Mandelson's removal. The longtime labor power broker now says he regrets the friendship, describing Epstein as a, quote, charismatic, criminal liar. Before we go, we want to take a moment and remember what happened 24 years ago today, September 11th, we were forever changed. On this day, we honor the families, the victims, and the heroes. Today, anchor Craig Melvin recently met with men who care for the reflecting pools at the 911 memorial in downtown Manhattan. Hi, Craig.
- [17:46]
Craig Melvin
Hey, Yasmin.
- [17:48]
Yasmin Vesugin
This story was incredible, I think because of the characters of the people that you spoke to and the experience they have in taking care of this memorial. Who were some of the folks that you spoke to?
- [18:00]
Craig Melvin
It was interesting to me on a series of levels. We talked to a guy named Jim, another guy named Billy, another guy named Tony. Classic New York City names, by the way. And Jim is sort of the leader of the pack, and he's in charge of cleaning the reflecting pools every night. Every night he's there with a special vacuum. And he's done it now for more than a decade. He leads the team, and he remembers 911 better than the other two because he knew a guy who worked in one of the towers. And so, as you might imagine, for him especially, it's more than a job. He sees it as a sense of duty for anyone who's been down there. And you've seen what I would contend is one of the most amazing memorials and monuments in America. 500 gallons of water create this waterfall in two different pools. And the pools sit where the towers once stood. They were designed to be reflective pools so people could go there and reflect on what happened that day. And not just the pools, the names, the names of nearly 3,000 people that are etched in bronze at the top. There are two guys who, every night, cover of darkness, they're out there with blowtorches, making sure there's not a scratch, not a nick on any of the names. But one of the things that struck them that's never been lost on them are the tourists who come and who thank them or the loved one who has a name that's etched at the top of the pool, someone they lost that day. And they're tearing, and they see these guys who work to maintain the monument, and they thank them.
- [19:42]
Yasmin Vesugin
You think about the awesome responsibility that these individuals have in maintaining something that is so sacred, not just to those survivors and to those families, but to all of Americans.
- [19:54]
Craig Melvin
Yes. If you step back and take a look at it, especially on a day like this, I think there was this great sense of unity.
- [20:03]
Yasmin Vesugin
Yeah.
- [20:04]
Craig Melvin
It didn't matter what political party you were, what race, where you lived in the country after 9, 11. We were all Americans. And I think we, you know, if you are of a certain age, you remember that. And that lasted for a while. And now we. We find ourselves in this era where politically motivated violence has become a bit of a norm. And.
- [20:25]
Yasmin Vesugin
And.
- [20:25]
Craig Melvin
And I. I thought about it this morning after the story ran that juxtaposition between 24 years ago and where we are now. And I don't know, it's just. It's glaring.
- [20:39]
Yasmin Vesugin
It is.
- [20:40]
Craig Melvin
I mean, America always has. We always find our way back.
- [20:42]
Yasmin Vesugin
Yeah.
- [20:43]
Craig Melvin
I'm cautiously optimistic that we will again what we've made this place into.
- [20:48]
Tom Winter
This was honestly hell on earth, and.
- [20:51]
Craig Melvin
Now we've made it happen.
- [20:55]
Yasmin Vesugin
Thank you, Craig. We'll never forget. That's gonna do it. For today's episode of here's the Scoop From NBC News, I'm Yasmin Vesugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring.
- [21:17]
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- [21:21]
Charlie Kirk (quoted statements)
So I always dreamed of having a man cave, but the wife doesn't like it. What if I called it a woman cave?
- [21:27]
IKEA Advertiser
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- [21:34]
Vaughn Hilliard
Nice. A cozy retreat, man.
- [21:36]
Charlie Kirk (quoted statements)
Cozy retreat, sir.
- [21:38]
IKEA Advertiser
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