Kristen Welker (3:05)

Well, and before we got to the interview, which Yasmin occurred in the evening, we had spent the day watching her interactions with the Energy Secretary. She, of course, was handed this baton to lead her country, and she seems to be very comfortable in the role. That was my initial takeaway. She is someone, of course, who is the daughter of a political activist who died as a part of the political unrest in Venezuela. This is in her blood. This is who she is. And that was really on display. But I have to tell you, I talked to officials close to her, and when she and Energy Secretary Chris Wright stepped out of the presidential palace to address the public, she commented to her team. She could not believe how many cameras were there, the enormity of the press presence that was there. It's something that she's just not used to. And, of course, the fact that the press has been oppressed to some extent here in Venezuela, that's a part of this story. So it's against that backdrop that I sent down with her with all of these questions I was interested in really testing how unified are the United States and Venezuela right now, particularly given Yasmin. You walk into the presidential palace, and one of the first things you see is a portrait of Nicolas Maduro hanging on the wall. And so that's, to some extent, where we started this conversation. Who is in charge? And does she still see Nicolas Maduro as the legitimate leader of Venezuela? She said she is in charge, but also acknowledged the need to work with President Trump. And she said, yes, she sees Nicolas Maduro as the legitimate leader of Venezuela. And the reason why that is so striking is because, of course, the Trump administration does not see him as legitimate. So how do they move forward and work together? And she talked about the power of diplomacy, and again, was very forceful, very aware of both audiences, her constituents here in Venezuela. Yeah, many of whom see Nicolas Maduro as the legitimate leader of Venezuela. So she's speaking to them, representing them, but then the need to also build that bridge with the Trump administration and with the U.S. government. And you could feel her walking that very challenging, fine line in real time.

Yasmin Vasugin (5:46)

Kristen, you were able to speak with both Delsey Rodriguez, along with Energy Secretary Chris Wright. And what stuck out to me about your interview with Wright is this moment in which you ask who is legitimately running Venezuela.

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So the Venezuelans are in charge here in Venezuela, but the United States has enormous leverage over the interim authorities in Venezuela. The largest revenue source that funds the government, that funds the government of Venezuela is now controlled by the United States. If they're driving positive change that benefits Americans and is improving the life opportunities of people in Venezuela, that money will flow. If they steer off that path, we have just simply tremendous leverage.

Yasmin Vasugin (6:32)

So have you seen any kind of evidence of, of this leverage, what it is that he means, and how they may be using it over Delcey Rodriguez?

Kristen Welker (6:43)

Well, I think part of what he's talking about there is this attempt to rebuild the energy infrastructure, the fact that the United States wants to be a part of this process of getting new businesses to invest in the oil industry here in Venezuela. In fact, Secretary Wright is touring oil fields as we speak, Yasmin. And I think that's part of the leverage that they believe they can hold over Venezuela. Look, as we look forward to how this is all going to work, the practicality of this, I pressed him and I pressed Interim President Rodriguez. Will the money that's generated from the oil industry here, will it go back to the people, or is it just going to go to the regime? Is it going to help to rebuild the economy here in Venezuela, or is it just going to go back to those who are in charge? Delsey Rodriguez and Secretary Wright both were very insistent that that money was going to go to the people of Venezuela. But as journalists, Yasmin, you and I have our work cut out for us because I do think that's part of what we need to track in these coming months and potentially years. Remember, President Trump has said the United States could be in Venezuela for years to come, which is really a remarkable admission by the sitting president. And on that point, I asked Secretary Right, when will there be free and fair elections? He predicted it could happen by the end of this Trump administration. Now, Delsey Rodriguez, not prepared to go as far. She said she's committed to free and fair elections, but at the right time, certain conditions have to be met. She would not commit to a timeline, and she said sanctions have to be lifted first. So I thought that dichotomy in their answers was also incredibly notable.

Yasmin Vasugin (8:36)

Well, and I also wonder if she's worried about those elections happening because she's worried about her own, the sustainability of her own leadership. And that brings me to my next question, which is opposition leader Maria Karina Machado, whose coalition, by the way, Kristen, as you well know, is widely believed to have won the election back in July of 2024. She had to go into hiding from the Maduro administration. She has been currently on a tour of rallying support, meeting with President Trump last month, even giving him her Nobel Peace Prize. You actually asked Delsey Rodriguez about Machado, and it sounds like she is still someone that they do not want back in Venezuela.

Kristen Welker (9:20)

So I thought this was one of the most revealing questions. And I have to tell you, and I know you're familiar with this, Yasmin, you have a list of so many questions you want to ask, particularly when you're sitting down with which one is the priority. And they're all so critical. And I was getting a very hard rap, and I had not gotten to Maria Karina Machado yet. And I said, I'm so sorry, I have to ask one more question. Mrs. Machado would like to return to Venezuela safely. She has made it very clear she has her eye on running for president at some point. Will you facilitate that happening? The tone of her voice, she became completely defiant. Maria Karina Machado says she wants to return to Venezuela. Will you make sure she can return here safely and even run for president if she wants to?

Kate Snow (10:17)

Mira sobre subida nosotro nuen 10.

Kristen Welker (10:28)

You could feel, I think it's fair to say, her disdain for Machado. And she said, I don't know why people are so focused on her. She went on to say she has to explain to the Venezuelan people why she supported, basically the ouster of Nicolas Maduro, why she supported this illegal action that was taken against our country. So I pressed her. So you're saying, no, you're not going to facilitate her safe return? Is that not a part of the democratic process? And she would not commit to doing that. And therein lies the challenge. The United States has one vision for what it would like to see happen here in Venezuela. And in that very answer, it's clear that Interim President Rodriguez has a different vision.

Yasmin Vasugin (11:17)

Kristen Welker, as always, you did a fantastic job with this interview, and we appreciate you, my friend, giving us some time. Thank you. Thank you, Kristen. All right, we're going to take a very quick break, and when we are back, why the Trump administration is ending its controversial immigration enforcement operation in Minnesota. Stay with us. And hey, while you have a minute, why not click on that Follow or Subscribe button on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to. Here's the scoop. That way, we're going to be right there in your feed tomorrow, and you'll never miss an episode. We'll be right back.

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Kate Snow (12:23)

21/ hey everybody, it's Kate Snow. I'm an NBC News anchor and host of the new podcast the Drink with Kate Snow. So here's the deal. I sit down with all kinds of celebrities, actors, musicians, athletes for a casual conversation over a drink of their choice. It's always about their journey, the, the successes, the struggles, the lessons they learned. I thought I knew all about self help superstar Mel Robbins, but in our candid conversation, she got really honest about a business decision that almost bankrupted her and how she was able to pull herself out and then build an empire. Trust me, you're going to learn something. I always do. I hope you'll listen. Just search for the Drink with Kate Snow wherever you get your podcasts and follow now.

Yasmin Vasugin (13:14)

And we are back with here's the scoop from NBC News. After three months and more than 4,000 arrests, borders are Tom Homan says he is pulling the plug on Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis. I have proposed and President Trump has.

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Concurred that this surge operation conclude a.

Yasmin Vasugin (13:30)

Significant drawdown has already been underway this week and we'll continue to the next week. This is happening amidst growing national criticism about ICE operations, polls showing the majority of Americans disapproving of the president's handling of border security and immigration. So the question now is, is Minnesota the blueprint or the cautionary tale for enforcement operations going forward across the country? For that I have NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainsley. Hi, Julia. Hey. Yes. So the border czar, Tom Homan arrived in Minnesota to lead ICE operations after the shooting of and death of Alex Preddy. And he vowed to, quote, stay until the problem is gone. That was two weeks ago. Is the problem gone? Does the administration think that their work is done or are they finally trying to de escalate the situation and in Minnesota by pulling out agents?

Julia Ainsley (14:30)

It does seem like the reason Tom Homan went and what he's saying today will always directly conflict each other because the reason he went and he was clear from the first day was for a drawdown. And he said, you're right, you heard me, drawdown. We are going to start removing officers from here. They had gone from a footprint of 150 ICE officers that are normally in Minneapolis to to over 3,000 federal officers, including border Patrol. And so he was there for a drawdown. But at the same time, this administration never wants to leave a fight before they believe that they've won it. And so we heard President Trump, when he talked to Tom Yamas last week, say that they had already been so successful there because they brought down crime in Minneapolis. And he pointed to stats that are very hard for us to confirm. He did the same thing when they talk about other cities that ICE has gone into and Border Patrol has gone into, basically to say that by cracking down on immigration, overall CR is now safe in these cities. And so while the administration will point to that, it's really never been clear what the benchmark of success looks like in any of these cities. We know there have been over 4,000 arrests in Minneapolis, but there were two deaths of US citizens at the hands of federal law enforcement. So where does that fall in the report card? But I do think that what Homan is making good on today was the mission, the real reason why he was sent there, and that was to de escalate and that this, this conflict in Minneapolis was turning into something that was a real political liability for this administration. There were a lot of people up in arms about what was happening in Minneapolis and the President's approval rating was dropping.

Yasmin Vasugin (16:10)

So then let's talk about the withdrawal. You have 400,000 or so residents in the city of Minneapolis, 3,000 federal agents on the ground. Last week, Coleman said they're pulling out 700. So that was, you know, leaving still thousands of agents. There is every single agent now leaving after this announcement was made.

Julia Ainsley (16:28)

I wanna read you Homan's exact words on that question, because I think there's some ways we can split this apart. Here's what he said this morning. Federal government personnel assigned to conduct criminal investigations and criminal investigations into the agitators, as well as the personnel assigned here for the fraud investigations, will remain in place until the work is done. I will also remain on the ground for a little longer to oversee the draw down of this operation and ensure success is success. And so what we're hearing is that there will be some people left over to conduct criminal investigations and also to look into fraud. Now, fraud is actually the reason why this administration targeted Minneapolis in the first place. And so what we're hearing from Homan is that some of those who may stay may be more closely aligned with Justice Department priorities when it comes to large scale federal criminal investigations into criminal activity or other kinds of fraud.

Yasmin Vasugin (17:26)

So we're also getting some internal reaction, and that is, of course, from Governor Tim Walz responding, saying that Minneapolis, the state of Minnesota, is on the road to recovery beginning now. But he also did not mince his words in his press conference.

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But the fact of the matter is they left us with deep damage, generational trauma. They left us with economic ruin in some cases. They left us with many unanswered questions. Where are our children? Where and what is the process of the investigations into those that were responsible for the deaths of Renee and Alex?

Yasmin Vasugin (18:12)

Can you try and answer those questions that the governor posed?

Julia Ainsley (18:16)

Yeah. The message that Governor Waltz is sending there, who is a politician who's not seeking reelection, and he's speaking really, really freely and pushing back on what the Trump administration has done. It's not to say that they can just close up and go home and not be responsible for what he sees as damage left behind in his state. And so he wants to continue to see where the investigations go into Renee, Nicole Good and Alex Pretty. Those two investigations appear to be on very different tracks. And I think we'll hear from Waltz as well as Minneapolis Mayor Fry, really pushing for more accountability as they lead the state.

Yasmin Vasugin (18:52)

So it's also interesting because we have what is also concurrently happening in Washington, which is, I would say, arguably a little bit different messaging than we've been hearing from home. And because you had kind of these key immigration officials testifying in front of Congress, I believe, on Tuesday, they're in front of the Senate today. Todd Lyons, acting Director of Vice, Rodney Scott, commissioner of U.S. customs and Border Protection, Joseph Edlow, the director of U.S. citizenship and Immigration Services. And they, for the most part, have been defending all of their actions and also deportations by immigration officials. But you also couple that with the shutdown that is looming, the deadline being tomorrow to continue to fund dhs. Is there any sort of infighting still happening with the administration? As we talked about the last time you and I spoke, between the Kristi Gnomes of the world and the Tom Homans of the world, are we seeing this bear out as well with these congressional testimonies?

Julia Ainsley (19:51)

You know, it's interesting. It really all comes down to who everyone reports to. And Tom Homan has more leeway and what he can say because he reports to the White House. He doesn't have anything to do with dhs, and he doesn't report to Kristi Noem, whereas the heads of ICE and CBP and USCIS do report to Noem. So it's not in their best interest to come out and say that they went too far or that they need to de escalate or that they need to change their tactics in any way because they could still be fired by Kristi Noemi. One thing Lyons did say that I thought was really interesting is he said he would like for ICE officers to not have to wear masks anymore. Basically admitting that that has been a problem in the communities they've gone into. When these ICE officers are jumping out of unmarked cars masked and a lot of time.

Yasmin Vasugin (20:36)

That's what Democrats want in order to fund dhs. That's one of their demands right now.

Julia Ainsley (20:41)

Absolutely. But he says that he would need to see more cooperation to protect these ICE officers because he says there are real threats to the officers and their families.

Yasmin Vasugin (20:50)

Well, I'm wondering, putting this all together, Julia, and then considering this new NBC News poll that we talked about in the podcast yesterday with Steve Kornacki and Natasha Correcky, about 49% of those polled saying they strongly disapprove of how the president has handled border security. The president sitting down with our colleague Tom Yamas and saying maybe we need to take a, quote, unquote, softer touch when it comes to some of these immigration policies and the way in which they're bearing out. And he also went on to say that he doesn't want to force immigration agents in to cities, but then also saying that he's eyeing five additional cities, but not mentioning specifically which cities. I'm wondering if we're seeing a real kind of change in policy here when it comes to enforcement of what the president wants with immigration.

Julia Ainsley (21:42)

I think there are a few indicators that show they may want to have a softer approach, obviously based on what Trump has said, based on the fact that there doesn't seem to be another city on the table for a next crackdown. I will say, though, there are other indicators when you look at how the money is being spent and the contracts that are being awarded that signify that this is still a top priority of this administration to get deportation numbers as high as they possibly can. And part of that is the billions that they are spending on detention. They want to double the size of ICE detention. And so in order to do that, they would logically make more arrests and they would be holding more people so that they can make more deportations. And so there's an old saying in journalism that I know, you know, Yaz, which is follow the money. And we're going to keep following that and see how they build out those detention centers and who they send there and exactly how they award that.

Yasmin Vasugin (22:37)

Julia Ainslie, thank you. Appreciate it.

Julia Ainsley (22:39)

Thanks. Yes.

Yasmin Vasugin (22:43)

And just after our conversation with Julia, Democrats blocked the full year Department of Homeland Security funding bill from advancing in the Senate. Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman was the only Democr Democrat to join Republicans in voting yes. With no more votes expected this week, DHS funding is going to lapse Friday and remain frozen for at least 10 days until the Senate reconvenes on February 23rd. All right, we are going to take a very quick break and when we return, we're going to have details on a major rollback from the Environmental Protection Agency. Stay with us for the headlines.

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Yasmin Vasugin (23:50)

Get the latest Olympic action with NBCNews.com and the NBC News app. Live updates, medal count and personal stories from the athletes. For breaking news from the Winter Olympics, download the NBC News app and subscribe for more. This is Olympic figure skating medalist Adam Rippon. Are you wondering who you should root for at the 2026 Winter Olympics? Well, I'm hosting my new favorite Olympian, where I will introduce you to Team USA's brightest stars and the causes they are passionate about. You're going to have great days. You're going to have rock bottom days. I think that that's part of life. Being a mom, being an Olympian. Get ready for the 2026 Winter Olympics by checking out my new favorite Olympian wherever you listen to your podcasts. And we're back with here's the scoop from NBC News. Let's get to some headlines. Republicans in Congress are pushing for voter IDs and proof of citizenships as part of an overhaul to federal election laws. The sweeping Save America act is heading to the Senate after passing in the House on Wednesday along party lines. All but one House Democrat voted against it. Democrats argue the bill is designed to disenfranchise Americans. They point to President Trump's comments earlier this month about nationalizing elections. The Constitution gives states broad authority over elections. Survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse say they felt, quote, degraded by Attorney General Pam Bondi's testimony before the House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday. Lawmakers pressed the attorney general about why survivors names were in the released Epstein files, and Bondi responded, we did the best we could immediately. Bondi refused to face the survivors present at the hearing to offer an apology. Here is Marina Lacerda, who met Epstein when she was just 14, speaking to NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson. She sat there in the beginning, she said sorry for what Jeffrey Epstein did to us, but yet she couldn't apologize what she did to us, what her.

Julia Ainsley (25:55)

Department did to us.

Yasmin Vasugin (25:56)

Right.

Kate Snow (25:57)

It's like you had one job was.

Yasmin Vasugin (26:00)

To redact our names, to respect our.

Kristen Welker (26:03)

Privacy, but yet you carefully took the.

Yasmin Vasugin (26:07)

Time to redact all these powerful rich men. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said in a social media post earlier this week, quote, doj is hiding nothing. The Environmental Protection Agency is repealing its own 2009 finding that greenhouse gases are heating the planet and threatening public health, known as the, quote, endangerment finding. The decision was key for setting emission standards and requiring fossil fuel companies to report their emissions. This repeal is expected to overturn most US Policies focused on cutting climate pollution, but it will first face court challenges from environmental groups. And it is time for our Olympic minute. NBC News foreign correspondent Molly Hunter joins us from Cortina, where a political fight over the war in Ukraine has become a flashpoint.

Molly Hunter (26:57)

Yasmin, I'm going to start with the headline that everyone is talking about. The IOC has banned an athlete from competing, Ukrainian national champion Vladislav Geraskovich. He is a skeleton athlete and the IOC says that a helmet that he's been training in and practicing in and one that we have seen quite a bit of, violates the IOC charter. Well, he says it's not a political statement. It has pictures of former Ukrainian Olympians who were killed in the war with Russia, young children who were killed, friends of his that were killed. We had a chance to speak with him and he said he was given one last chance today. Race in a different helmet or don't race at all. Well, he chose don't race at all.

Yasmin Vasugin (27:34)

I didn't think that we should back down because I believe I am right in this case. And I don't want to betray this athlete who is pictured on the helmet. And for me to back down is.

Molly Hunter (27:46)

Betraying the now some good metal news for Team usa. Jessie Diggins. She is the cross country skier from Minnesota. She got the bronze in the 10K. It looked so painful to watch her race, but she did so well. She actually collapsed just after the finish line. But all smiles with that bronze medal, Yasmin, which is very exciting. Speaking of smiles, we got probably the biggest smiles here on the Tifana. We were watching the women's Super G. No American medals to report, but some other very exciting hardware. Breezy Johnson, who is the gold medalist downhill skier, she actually crashed today. A lot of skiers crashed off the course today. But when Breezy got down to the bottom, surrounded by her coaches and her team and some family members, her boyfriend Connor Watkins, who was there, who we have spoken with, got down on one knee and proposed. She said, yes, the ring is beautiful and they are both really, really happy.

Yasmin Vasugin (28:38)

And congratulations to Breezy Johnson. We had her on the show Monday when she was still a single lady, much taken and engaged. All right, that is going to do it for us at here's the scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Dasugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. And if you like what you heard, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you tomorrow.

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