Brian Chung (2:16)

We've never seen it before. We've never seen it at least this publicly. We never hear first off from a Fed chair over the weekend. We rarely ever hear from a Fed chair outside of market hours. So to see a late Sunday after dinner, not just statement, but a video message as well, posted on social media from Fed Chair Jay Powell, essentially saying, I will not be subject to this pressure from the president to lower interest rates for political reasons is just so abnormal. I worked at the Federal Reserve in my first job. I know that is not a political organization, and it's just in covering the Federal Reserve. Even since that point in time, I have never seen anything like this before.

Yasmin Bisugian (2:58)

So highly unusual, Garrett, but not necessarily in this administration, unexpected, especially where the President has gone when it comes to this Fed Chair and wanting him to repeatedly lower interest rates.

Commercial Voice (3:09)

Yeah, look, I mean, the statement from the Fed Chair makes a certain amount of sense just because on its face, we have seen the President run this pressure campaign publicly. Almost any time the Fed Chair comes up, the President talks about how he wants him to lower rates, how he calls him Too Late, he's given him a nickname based on the fact that he doesn't think the Fed Chair has acted quickly enough to lower rates. I spoke to the President about this last night. I asked him about the idea that he's pressuring. He denied that he's doing it, but then immediately pivoted into. But he should feel pressure to lower the rates. He should feel the pressure from the American people whom the President says are being hurt by. By Chairman Powell's decision not to lower the rates. So even in denying it, the President continued to press his case that this needs to be done. Again, also extraordinary and in its own way, unprecedented.

Yasmin Bisugian (3:57)

Okay, so we know that the President has repeatedly said, jerome Powell, Fed Chair, lower the rates. Right. And by the way, they've lowered the rate three times over the last year in 2025. But let's talk about what this potential investigation is actually about, Brian. Right. Because Chairman Powell is saying that this threatened indictment is related to his testimony before the Senate back in June about the renovation of Federal Reserve office buildings. President Trump actually visited the site this summer, and there was an interesting interaction between the two.

Richard Engel (4:25)

So we're taking a look, and it looks like it's about 3.1 billion. Went up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1.

Commercial Voice (4:36)

I'm not aware of that.

Richard Engel (4:37)

Yeah, it just came out.

Commercial Voice (4:39)

Yeah, I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed.

Richard Engel (4:42)

It just came out.

Brian Chung (4:47)

Our notes had it about 3.1 as well.

Yasmin Bisugian (4:49)

3.1, 3.2.

Commercial Voice (4:50)

This came from us?

Richard Engel (4:52)

Yes. I don't know who does that.

Commercial Voice (4:57)

You're including the Martin renovation. You just added. You just added in a third building.

Brian Chung (5:02)

Is what that is.

Commercial Voice (5:03)

That's a third building.

Richard Engel (5:04)

It's a building that's being built.

Commercial Voice (5:06)

No, it's been. It was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years ago.

Yasmin Bisugian (5:10)

How are these renovations now at the center of this investigation?

Brian Chung (5:14)

Yeah, well, and again, we should note that we haven't seen the subpoena from the Department of Justice. So we don't know exactly what the language is in there. I mean, the Federal Reserve Chair said in the video message this isn't even really about that. But I do think that we do need to talk about the building renovation because it's at least been framed by the administration as the reason why there needs to be some sort of investigation into this particular Fed Chair, which is that they're renovating a that's on Constitution Ave. This is a very historic building. This is called the Eccles Building. This is when you see any photo of the Federal reserve buildings in D.C. this is the one that you're going to get in your first search result. And they're doing this historic renovation to make sure that it is still in pristine condition. It is costing a lot of money. The President has argued that it is costing too much money and they have said for that reason maybe there's some sort of malfeasance in the way that they're talking about billions of dollars, billions of dollars on this renovation. But I do wanna point out the President and those that are all him have framed this as the Federal Reserve wasting taxpayer dollars, which I just want to clear the record on. This is not using taxpayer dollars. The Federal Reserve is self funded. They get fees from banks. They also earn proceeds from the investments that they have in things like mortgage backed securities. That's what funds this project, not taxpayer money. So when you do hear that, that is just simply a falsity.

Yasmin Bisugian (6:30)

What's also interesting to me is every living Federal Reserve Chair issued a statement on the Federal Reserve's independence, writing in part this, and I wanna read it for folks. The reported criminal inquiry into Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell is an unprecedented attempt to use prosecutorial attacks to undermine that independence. That is just part of this overall statement, including by the way, many treasury secretaries as well. Brian?

Brian Chung (6:54)

Yeah, I've been kind of immersed in the commentary from market strategists, economists, now former Fed chairs that are saying no one thinks this is a good idea. You can disagree with the Federal Reserve Chair on whether or not interest rates should be low from here. In fact, that debate is already happening even within the Federal Reserve. But nonetheless, to argue that a Fed chair should be criminally prosecuted for building renovations during a time where the President would have this strong preference for low interest rates. We have never seen this play out before. I do wanna point out what is interesting so far is that the market reaction is a little bit more Muted than I think maybe people would have thought on the surface. With a President going after a sitting Fed chair, I think it's because the markets don't really take this seriously. I think market strategists are looking at some of the commentary we've heard from the Senate side of things where you have Thom Tillis as well as Lisa Murkowski, these Republicans that are basically saying we're not going to process a new Fed Chair nomination from the President, while this essentially useless case against Jerome Powell is undergoing the process.

Yasmin Bisugian (7:58)

I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's got a lot of folks thinking as to how this could feasibly affect the next possible Fed chair. Right, the politicization of the Fed. There's some Republicans that have come out against this. Those are folks that are gonna have to eventually vote on the appointment of the next Fed chair. Is there any type of self awareness within this administration and the president that the politicization of the Fed could affect poorly not only the Federal Reserve, but also his administration?

Commercial Voice (8:28)

Well, a couple things going on here, yes. In terms of Republican pushback, the most notable person to watch is Thom Tillis, a Republican Senator from North Carol, retiring at the end of this term. He's in kind of YOLO mode. He's willing to stick his neck out here in a way a lot of other Republicans aren't. Most importantly, he's on the Banking Committee. He's on the committee that would have to consider any replacement for Powell or any other Fed governor who would be nominated. That committee is so tight between Democrats and Republicans. If he votes with all Democrats, anybody who's coming through that committee gets stuck. So his opposition alone is enough to give the administration a major headache here. I also think the idea that the market reaction here has been muted is fascinating to me, Brian, because the one thing that has really pressured President Trump at any point during his term is the markets and the economy. When you look at the reaction to the tariffs back in April, that got his attention real fast. All of that said, there are still a lot of old school conservatives and Democrats, of course, in Congress who believe the Fed needs to stay independent. They are communicating that to the President directly and indirectly. And whether that's enough to, you know, sort of change the course of the direction this looks like it's going or not, I think, remains to be seen. But it'll be the market reaction that I think is the thing that's most likely to affect the administration's thinking on this.

Yasmin Bisugian (9:48)

One last thing, Brian, if in fact, you lower interest rates when the economy is not ready. What does that mean for the consumer.

Brian Chung (9:56)

The everyday consumer, higher prices and potentially runaway inflation? And that is the story that we have seen in Argentina, Turkey, other examples in history. When you talk about lowering interest rates, what you are doing is you're pumping more money into the economy. What president would not want that? I think that one thing we need to acknowledge here is that any president will tell you they would love to have a Fed chair in office that will lower interest rates. The question is, when do you push the Federal Reserve into giving the economy the medicine that it does not need? In which case, what are the side effects of taking, you know, Benadryl when you don't need it? You get drowsy. And that is something that can happen with a very serious advanced economy like the United States, which I should point out is not worth playing with as the largest economy in the world. That is what's at stake here. It will be higher prices for, for everyday people.

Yasmin Bisugian (10:45)

Brian Chung, Garrett Hake, thank you guys both.

Brian Chung (10:48)

You bet. Thanks.

Yasmin Bisugian (10:52)

All right, we're going to take a very quick break. And when we are back, the threat of US Action in Iran. How real is it? Stay tuned.

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Yasmin Bisugian (12:23)

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Yasmin Bisugian (12:37)

And we are back with Here's a scoop from NBC News going out to Iran, where activists say about 500 protesters and more than 60 security forces have been killed in protests there. The country's been in an Internet and phone blackout for days as the regime tries to rein in weeks of demonstrations over economic conditions. The president has been threatening action against Iran's regime, including on Air Force One over the weekend.

Richard Engel (13:01)

These are violent. If you call them leaders. I don't know if they're leaders or just they they rule through violence. But we're looking at it very seriously. The military is looking at it and we're looking at some very strong options. We'll make a determination.

Yasmin Bisugian (13:18)

So our signs pointing to US Involvement, and if so, what would that actually look like? I want to bring in chief foreign correspondent Richard Engle for more on this question. Hey, Richard.

Richard Engel (13:28)

Yeah, Asben, it's good to join you.

Yasmin Bisugian (13:30)

So we just heard from the president right, over the weekend in which he said we're looking at some very quote, unquote, strong options for intervention. What could that mean? What are you hearing?

Richard Engel (13:42)

So the president said that he's going to take action to defend the protesters if they come under attack and they face a violent, brutal, repressive campaign from the government. That campaign is underway, according to Human Rights group, according to activists, according to videos. And the government isn't acknowledging it, but is talking about the need for this crackdown and how these protesters aren't protesters, but that they are traitors and that they are acting at the behest of Israel and that they're trying to please President Trump and that the regime cannot give in an inch and it has mobilized counter protesters. So now the question President Trump, will he make good on his word? He said he will defend the protesters. So what range of options does he have? Everything from military to cyber to general strikes to attacks on Iran's allies, although most of them have already been attacked. Significantly, I think if the US Were to act militarily, it would be against the security services. It would be against the tools that the state is using to repress this uprising, which is now looking more like a revolution. I tend to categorize it like that. You have a protest, protest, think signs revolt, people out on the street, revolution. Enough people are out on the street with enough momentum to potentially change, change the whole, the whole thing.

Yasmin Bisugian (15:12)

I want to be clear here, though, because we do not know that the US Is going to act. And officials told NBC News that, that no decision has, in fact, act been made we did hear, though, warnings from inside Iran that Israeli and US Military bases in the region could be considered legitimate targets, quote, unquote, if the US Were to strike. And then the President responded to that, upping the ante.

Richard Engel (15:39)

If they do that, we will hit them at levels that they've never been hit before. They won't even believe it. I have five options that are so strong.

Yasmin Bisugian (15:48)

But he has also said, Richard, that the Iranians have called, that they are wanting to negotiate. So the question is, are they going to hit or are they going to negotiate? And if in fact they were to negotiate with this regime, what would that do to the thousands upon thousands of protesters that are putting their lives at risk in the streets of Tehran right now?

Richard Engel (16:16)

First, the immediate answer. If they did exactly what they did the US did in Venezuela, which is just to remove Maduro or in this case Khamenei, the supreme leader, but leave the rest of the state in charge, the security services, which in Iran's case is the Revolutionary Guard and the Basij, then the protesters fear absolutely that they will be hunted down and killed. And I've spoken to leading activists who say, please don't just do that. Don't just take out the top guys and turn us into a mafia state that is beholden to the US if you're going to do this, go all the way. Otherwise we're all going to be dead. But a lot of key differences between the United States operation in Venezuela and Iran. First of all, Iran is huge, about 100 million people. Yeah, it's far away. It's in the Middle East. And this Venezuela operation didn't take place in a vacuum. There were warships there for months. There was a buildup that took months to do. Now, the United States already does have a huge amount of military hardware in the region around Iran and has some experience hitting Iran. So it wouldn't necessarily take months and months because the US just fought not that long ago the, the 12 day war. Israel has a lot of experience carrying out operations against Iran. But you would assume that some amount of preparation would need to take place before taking a military action, just from a logistical point of view. But then you also, you have to think, do they have a plan for day two? Because this is the Middle East. Iran is right next to Iraq. There are Shia parties in Iraq that are going to, you potentially get involved. There is still Hezbollah, remnants of Hezbollah, and then there's the son of the Shah who's presenting himself as a leader in exile, ready to come in. So before you take an action of this magnitude to destroy Iran and the regime that has been in place, the Islamic revolutionary government that has been in place since 1979, you had better have a plan, especially after the United States had experience of toppling Saddam Hussein really without a plan and then ending up starting a civil war that US Forces were in the middle of for over a decade.

Yasmin Bisugian (18:44)

Let's talk the two roads that can be taken here. Right. First is a military operation. The other is possible diplomacy. What are the options there?

Richard Engel (18:52)

Well, as you said, that's what the opposition is most nervous about, that President Trump goes into some sort of, you know, talks with the government and they off road this conflict and find some sort of detente. That's what the protesters are worried about, that they do. Of Venezuela, we'll keep the dictatorship. We'll just make it a pro American dictatorship. But just because one thing happened in Venezuela does not mean it could happen in Iran.

Yasmin Bisugian (19:23)

Richard Engel, we'll be talking a lot more over the next who knows how long. Thank you.

Richard Engel (19:28)

Who knows how long. Great to talk to you, Yasmin.

Yasmin Bisugian (19:31)

You, too. All right. Let's get to some headlines. Minnesota and the Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St. Paul are suing the Trump administration over the use of federal forces in the state. At a press conference this afternoon, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, St. Paul Mayor Kali Herr say they're asking the court to declare the surge of DHS and ICE agents unconstitutional and unlawful. The lawsuit says the federal government is really targeting Minnesota over politics, which it says is a violation of the First Amendment. The battle over the sale of Warner Bros. Discovery is escalating. Paramount Skydance is now suing Warner Brothers over its bid to take over the company. It's come in just days after the Warner Brothers board again recommended the shareholders reject Paramount's revised offer, which did not raise the price. Paramount has also warned that it plans to increase pressure by nominating directors for election to Warner Brothers board at the next annual meeting. Meanwhile, Warner Brothers is moving ahead with its plan to sell HBO Max and the Warner Brothers film studio to Netflix for $72 billion. In New York, some 15,000 nurses walked off the job this morning at three major hospitals, marking the city's largest nursing strike after contract talks collapsed. Nurses at Mount Sinai, New York Presbyterian and Montefiore Medical center say chronic, understaffing and unsafe working conditions are putting patients at risk. Hospital leaders counter the union's demands are too expensive. The walkout comes amid a brutal flu season and could lead to patient transfers, delayed care and canceled procedures. Across the city, four astronauts are coming home early from the International Space Station this week because of an undisclosed medical issue. It is the first time a crew has cut a mission short in 25 years. NASA says the crew 11 astronauts are scheduled to undock at at 5pm Eastern time on Wednesday and splashed down off the California coast about 11 hours later. Officials stress the situation is stable, but declined to identify the affected crew member or provide details about the medical condition. Crew 12's launch to the ISS is currently scheduled for mid February, but NASA administrator Jared Isaacman said the agency is considering moving that mission up.

Brian Chung (21:57)

Let's hear it for Team USA.

Yasmin Bisugian (22:01)

With 25 days till the Milan Cortina Olympics, we now know who we'll be rooting for on Team USA in figure skating. Out of 180American hopefuls, 16 athletes are now on the roster to skate their way to the podium. NBC News special correspondent Hoda Kotb sat down with the entire team, including Ilya Malinin, known as the Quad God for his mastery of the quadruple jump.

Hoda Kotb (22:27)

Add now the title of Olympian to that list. How does that land for you?

Brian Chung (22:32)

Just such an honor and I'm so grateful that also just following in my parents footsteps. They were two time Olympians as well and I'm just so excited to go there.

Yasmin Bisugian (22:39)

Another Team USA member, Maxim Naumov, lost both of his parents 1994 World Figure Skating pairs champions themselves in the DC plane crash last year. He says they were the first ones he wanted to share the news with.

Commercial Voice (22:53)

I was telling them that we did it and we did it together.

Yasmin Bisugian (22:56)

On the women's side, Alyssa Liu, Isabeau Levito and Amber Glenn are skating towards history, each with a shot at becoming the first American woman to win olympic gold in 24 years. But for Glenn, the moment matters even more because she's sharing it with her friends. One of the reasons that we all get along so well is because not that many people understand what it takes and understand the ups and downs of such an intense sport like we do. And that's gonna do it for us at here's the scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Desugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. And if you like what you heard, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you tomorrow.

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