A (2:22)

Okay, well, I do not believe the statute would support that.

B (2:26)

So it sounds to me like Senator Kaine does not believe Hegseth's assessment of whether or not the 60 day clock is still ongoing. Do you think they were taken by surprise with this?

A (2:37)

I don't think there's any doubt that Senator Kaine was taken by surprise. I think that everybody on Capitol Hill was operating under this assumption that at least the February 28th started the clock and that at least May first was gonna be the 60 day deadline, and that there wasn't anything to indicate that the clock had stopped at any stage of the process. That was the first time that anybody from the administration had made that argument to leaders on Capitol Hill. And I think that most folks that have any sort of understanding of how the War Powers act works and how that relates back to the Constitution and Congress's authority when it comes to declaring war would argue that there's any precedent for that on any level. When you look at the fact that there is still an ongoing naval blockade of Iranian ports, which is an active military action, when you take into account the fact that there are still thousands of troops and sailors in the region, when you talk about the fact that they're in control of the Strait of Hormuz, I think it's a pretty compelling case that the war is still a live ball, even if they're not necessarily dropping bombs. I don't think legally that the White House is on strong ground here, but they might not need to be, because if Congress doesn't feel the need to actually exert its authority here, the White House can do basically whatever they want, which has kind of been the trend line here through this second Trump administration.

B (4:00)

I just got to say, having just returned from the region, Ryan, everybody there believes that the United States is still at war with Iran, especially given the example that you just mentioned, which is the blockade that is happening at the Strait of Hormuz. That is what's kind of so perplexing to me when we hear from people like the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, and his testimony in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and your interview with House Speaker Mike Johnson, in which he said to you we're not currently at war, and you actually pressed him

A (4:35)

on that, but the President has called it a war. You're saying we're not at war right now?

D (4:38)

I'm saying that we do not have

A (4:40)

military kinetic military action at the moment.

D (4:42)

We're policing the Strait of Hormuz and trying to get to a peace. The President and the administration are moving as aggressively as possible. There's nothing Congress can do to move that along any further. So we'll see how it plays out. That's my position.

B (4:55)

Is this the positioning of most Republicans, considering what Speaker Johnson just said?

A (4:59)

No, I wouldn't say most. I would say Republican leadership, which is a key distinction here. Right. If you watch both the Senate and House hearings in which the Secretary Hegseth appeared before, you saw a lot of Republicans asking very specific questions. About a lot of stuff. And there are Republicans that want to be involved in this decision making process and in the oversight and the administration of this war. Not because they think it's a bad idea, but because they think it is a good idea. Because they want to support that effort. And they are frustrated by the fact that the administration has cut them off. I had a very lengthy back and forth with Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who said, I wanna be able to go back and sell this war to my constituents. I wanna be able to convince them that this is worth the expense of blood and treasure by our military and by our taxpayers. But I can't do that if you're not looping me into this process and making me a partner in this effort. But what we're seeing here, Yasmin, is that John Thune and Mike Johnson just don't want any part of this. To hear Mike Johnson tell me that Congress has no role in. In this $25 billion worth of military spending and the effort and the expense that has been paid by our military members. 400 or so members of the military have been injured in this conflict so far. It's just kind of shocking to me that the congressional leadership, Republican leadership, has just kind of been like, there's nothing to see here. We really don't have anything to do here.

B (6:36)

Is there anything else that Congress can do here? Especially when you mention conversations like the one that you have with Thom Tillis. Could they feasibly withhold funding from Israel? Could they reject the ask by the Secretary of Defense, by the Defense Department for their budget? Is there anything else they could do? Because of what seems to be the lack of transparency the members of Congress feel like they're getting.

A (6:56)

Yeah. So I think the next pressure point will be when they come hat in hand looking for a supplemental budget request to help to continue to fund the conflict. There's no way around that. In many ways, the War Powers act, the authorization of the use of military force, that is symbolic, but the money is the lifeblood of this military operation. And the Pentagon has a lot of money, but this is an expense that goes above and beyond what they had budgeted for. So at some point they're gonna come to Congress and say, we need all this extra money. They're not gonna be able to continue on this path without at least forcing Congress to be involved on some level.

B (7:37)

The President is saying, we're not at war. It seems the speaker of the House is saying, we're not at war. Hegseth is saying, it's on pause. We're talking about, you know, the economy amidst all of this, because this president has been all about the economy. That's what he got elected on. Gas prices are still on the rise. Inflation is rising as well. They're asking for all this money at the Pentagon to fund potentially this war. How does the president justify this? How do members of Congress justify all of this money that is being spent that they cannot necessarily account for going into the midterms, especially as Americans are struggling financially.

A (8:19)

Yeah. So it's not just the taxpayer expense, but you alluded to it. And it's also the expense out of everybody's pocketbooks when they go to the gas pump, when they go to the grocery store, when the farmers go to buy fertilizer. Those are all things that are a direct, direct result of what's happening in Iran. And Trump's prediction is the second the conflict ends, the gas prices will tumble and they'll come down and be even lower than they were before the conflict because they will have more control over the flow of oil from that region, and that'll bring prices down across the board.

B (8:51)

But it's not happening now. If we're not at war, we would be seeing that happen, and it's not happening. So that actually is not bearing out. Right?

A (9:00)

Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of contradictory statements in all of this. Right. In that interview I did with Mike Johnson, he said, on one hand, we are trying to broker a peace, but at the same time, we're not at war. How do you broker a peace? I mean, what are you brokering a peace from if we're not at war? You know, and Trump repeatedly calls it a war over and over again. They're now saying it's the end of hostilities, but yet they still have all this military presence in the region. You're right. I mean, if. If the major part of the war is already over, why is it the gas prices are still skyrocketing?

B (9:31)

So take us behind the scenes of a potential solve from the President's perspective and from members of Congress perspective, because we're getting reporting here at NBC News that amidst this cease fire between Iran and the U.S. iran is digging out weapons that they had hid underground or that were buried beneath rubble from US And Israeli airstrikes. We're reporting that they are preparing to restore their drone and missile capabilities if the president decides to stop, start military operations back up. That is According to a U.S. official and two other people familiar with the matter. So when you're seeing that reporting, hearing that reporting, seeing the blockade continuing at the Strait of Hormuz, how the world economy is essentially being choked out because Iran is recognizing they can weaponize the Strait of Hormuz. Amidst all of this, what are we hearing behind the scenes from members of Congress, from the President, as to how they find a solve to this? What is an ongoing war in the Middle East?

A (10:25)

Well, I can tell you from a congressional perspective, they don't have any idea. They are not being looped in on a granular level. They feel frustrated that the administration is not providing them more information, that it feels as though it's kind of a run and gun mentality. It's a lot of happy talk. It's a lot of, we've been so successful up until this point. You just need to trust us. There isn't a very specific and manageable plan that at least is being shared with Congress, which is kind of how we started this conversation about the lack of communication between the two ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. From an administration standpoint, you just have to listen to what the President says about this. I really don't think that there's a lot of behind the scenes maneuvering that betrays anything of what the President is saying publicly. He's saying on one hand that they want a deal, but he's not exactly sure who it is that they're trying to deal with. That they're not Even exactly sure 100% who's in charge in Iran, but that he also reserves the right to blow them to smithereens, that he will completely decimate and destroy the entire country if that's what it takes to make sure that they don't get a nuclear weapon going forward.

B (11:33)

Ryan Nobles, it is a happy Friday. Okay, let's just manifest that for a second.

A (11:37)

Yasmin, my theory is any time spent with you is happy.

B (11:41)

Oh, my God, what a charmer, this guy. Thanks, Ryan.

A (11:45)

Thanks, Yaz.

B (11:47)

Shortly after our conversation with Ryan, President Trump sent letters to the House and the Senate saying that despite hitting this 60 day mark, he does not need Congress's authorization for military operations in Iran because there has been, quote, no exchange of fire between the United States forces and Iran since the ceasefire began on April 7 and the hostilities have been terminated. We should note, however, the US has continued the naval blockade of Iranian ports and Iran is keeping the Strait of Hormuz closed. We are going to take a very quick break, and when we are back, we are heading to Silicon Valley to find out who is winning the AIA race in the courtroom. That is next. And by the way. So while you're waiting, why not take a second to subscribe to our podcast where wherever you are listening and if you already subscribe, we would appreciate it if you would rate and review because it could really help us out. We'll see you on the other side.

C (12:46)

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B (14:18)

And we are back with here's the scoop from NBC News. Two of Silicon Valley's most powerful people, Sam Altman and Elon Musk, had been battling it out in a California courtroom all week long. Musk is known as the CEO of Tesla, of X and of SpaceX, but a decade ago he was also one of the co founders of OpenAI, back when it was a nonprofit. He left its board back in 2018. Now he's suing OpenAI and its CEO Sam Altman, alleging that OpenAI's shift from a nonprofit organization to a for profit business was unlawful. And Musk is demanding roughly $134 billion in damages from OpenAI and Microsoft, one of the company's biggest backers. Musk is also calling for Altman to be removed from his role at OpenAI. OpenAI's lawyers are calling Musk's claims, quote unquote meritless and self serving. They also allege that Musk advised OpenAI on creating a for profit wing years ago. So what does this trial actually reveal about the inner workings of Silicon Valley and how could it impact the future of artificial intelligence? David Ingram is a tech reporter for NBC News and he has been in the courtroom all week long and he's joining us now. Hi, David.

D (15:40)

Hello.

B (15:42)

So it's been a really busy week. Elon Musk has been on the witness stand for the majority of the week. Take a step back for a moment, if you will, and walk us through what this trial, this case is actually about and what Musk wants from Sam Altman.

D (15:58)

So like a lot of court trials, this is about both the past and the future. OpenAI was founded in 2015 as a nonprofit. It's gone through some changes since then. It has a for profit arm. So the trial is about what is OpenAI now, what was it supposed to be when it started, and what is it going to be in the future? It is. There are a lot of subjects in the trial, including will AI robots eventually kill us? The credibility, of course, of Elon Musk and Sam Altman as individuals. But the core of the issue and what the judge has really tried to focus on is this idea of the charity and the specific accusation from Musk that Sam Altman and the other leaders of OpenAI have tried to enrich themselves through a charitable organization or what is supposed to be a charitable organization. Musk has a very simple message here, which is that OpenAI leaders have tried to steal a charity. And we're going to see a lot of focus on that from Musk. And also in the coming weeks, we're going to hear rebuttals on that from Sam Altman's side.

B (17:07)

So let's talk about Elon Musk being on the stand now because he has been on the stand for several days that is now wrapped. He was cross examined as well. He's a pretty litigious individual, litigious guy. That's how he runs his businesses. So he knows how to be on the stand. He likely has a strong team of lawyers, considering the amount of money that he has. What are some of the things that stood out to you in his testimony?

D (17:32)

So Musk was on the stand for about seven hours in total, over three days. So we really got to see his personality, warts and all, come out on the stand. He was at different times, I think, trying to be very charming with the jury. He's sort of put in a posturing a little bit as a white knight who was wronged by. He was a charitable giver that he gave, he says he gave $38 million to OpenAI he was wronged and now he wants to sweep in as someone, as the self made person with good intentions, specifically with the good intentions of saving humanity from killer robots. And he wants to save this nonprofit that he created from Sam Altman, who he's portraying as, as the bad guy. And the, the message from Musk and his side is these guys are trying to steal a charity that OpenAI has been a charity. It's suddenly a for profit according to, according to Musk, and they're trying to make themselves rich. And I think the OpenAI side is still working out exactly a message to counter that. That is as simple as Musk's and we can get into that. But I think their main argument is that, look, it's still a charity. There is a nonprofit foundation that is ultimately still in charge at OpenAI.

B (18:56)

So here's the thing, because I'm sure a lot of people know this, but everybody knows kind of what X AI is, right? It seems that is a for profit AI company that Elon Musk founded back in, in 2023. It never started as a nonprofit. It started as a for profit company. And so now you have folks essentially saying, especially critics of this trial, that this isn't about Musk trying to save humanity. This is instead about Musk trying to stomp out the competition. Especially with all of the trillions of dollars, this point investment that we're seeing in AI across the board.

D (19:35)

This is where we really saw sort of the gamesmanship on the stand from Musk. So OpenAI's lawyer, Bill Savitt, was asking some of these same questions. You know, you started Xai 2023 as a for profit. Why didn't you? You know, you didn't start it as a nonprofit, did you? Yes or no? And Musk, he didn't want to answer these questions, yes or no. He, he kept going back to the same argument of, well, you know, the, they stole my charity. And this, this is, this is the question that's going to be one of the questions that'll be before the jury is credibility of Musk. Was he really interested in a nonprofit? Is that really what he's doing here? Or is he just trying to take down a competitor to his own company? Now, Xai, he's been asked about this on the stand and his answer has been actually, you know, Xai isn't really a competitor. He said that they're a distant fifth in the AI race. So he's, he's trying to rebound.

B (20:32)

I mean, it's still in the same, it's still in the same market, still doing the same types of things, wanting to make the same offers, right?

D (20:38)

Absolutely. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's absolutely doing, you know, absolutely in the same, in the same market. Grok, his AI app, is directly competing with ChatGPT.

B (20:48)

So in lockstep with this idea of whether or not Musk is actually trying to stomp out his competition and, or maybe he's angry that he didn't get what he wanted from OpenAI, especially when it came to leadership. Altman's kind of side has claimed that Musk never fulfilled his $1 billion commitment to the company, which Musk actually confirmed on the stand this week. And that Musk quit when Altman and co founders refused to let him control OpenAI or absorb it into Tesla. So as we keep that in mind, David, I know that Sam Altman is going to be taking the stand. What are we expecting from his testimony?

D (21:24)

So I think we're going to see a lot of focus on what OpenAI currently is. So OpenAI completed a restructuring back in October. They now have some big outside investors. They have Microsoft as one of their big outside investors. Employees have gotten shares, other outside investors have gotten shares. And also the foundation that is the umbrella organization for OpenAI also has a share. It's a minority stake. They don't have a majority of the for profit company, but they've got a sizable minority. And I think what we're going to hear from Altman is an attempt to have yet another, again, simplified narrative here of the foundation is still in charge. And also the foundation is healthy. The lawyer for OpenAI told us yesterday in a briefing that this is the best capitalized nonprofit in the world and it's essentially a model for other kind of nonprofits, that nothing has been stolen. And again also that Musk agreed nine years ago or so that yes, OpenAI would eventually need to raise money from outside investors in order to accomplish its goals and to attract the best talent and to build, to build these models.

B (22:43)

So we talked about how much money Musk is asking for. He's also asking for Sam Altman to be removed from his roles at OpenAI. And listen, his reputation, it seems Altman has been tarnished, could get further tarnished by this ongoing trial, which may also be one of Elon Musk's motivations. And he was briefly fired and then rehired at OpenAI. There are folks inside of the company that say that Haltman has not been completely honest about the direction that he wanted to take the company. Is there any possibility that Elon Musk could actually move the needle on that and get Sam Altman removed from running open AI?

D (23:21)

I think if the, if the jury and the judge here find that Altman and OpenAI reliable, that they have enriched themselves unjustly at the expense of a charity, a verdict like that is going to hit the AI industry like a lightning bolt, especially if the remedy ends up being something like the shares that we thought were valued at one thing are actually valued at another thing. Or as you said, part of the remedy that Musk is seeking is Altman and Brockman being fired from the OpenAI board or being disqualified as officers. Would they go somewhere else? Would OpenAI employees go go somewhere else? Would they go to competitors, including potentially XAI or Anthropic or Google?

B (24:07)

Right.

D (24:07)

I think we would see a complete shakeup probably of this whole sector and the general push toward AI if the judge and the jury agree with Musk.

B (24:17)

David Ingram, thank you.

D (24:19)

You're welcome.

B (24:22)

All right, coming up, is the US Government gunning to save budget Spirit Airlines? And we may have a clue of who to put your money on for the Kentucky Derby this weekend. That's in the headlines.

E (24:37)

Hi, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor, host of the podcast the Drink. This month, I'm grabbing a matcha latte with comedian Taylor Tomlinson. The Drink is always about someone's journey to the top, and Taylor's story is remarkable. She tells us all about her unlikely path from performing in churches all the way to headlining her own Netflix specials like her latest Prodigal Daughter. And she opens up about her religious upbringing, what drew her to stand up and how she feels when she gets on that stage. Hope you'll listen and follow the Drink wherever you get your podcasts get the

B (25:11)

best of NBC News with a subscription, fewer ads, deeper access and exclusive content. And now, during the Xfin Member Celebration, members can get an exclusive 50% off an annual subscription. Head to xfinity.com membership to learn more. Xfinity Imagine that subscription automatically renews each year at $65.99 plus taxes and fees until canceled. Auver ends May 20, 2026. Price is subject to change. Visit nbcnews.comxfinity for full offer terms and details. Hey, everyone, I'm Dylan Dreier, co host of the third hour of Today and mom to three wild boys. I've learned a lot in my years as a parent. Mostly, I don't have it all figured out yet. And I'm not the only one. This is my new podcast the Parent Chat. Each week I sit down with someone new for honest conversation and real world advice about parenting. I am over here just like winging it.

D (26:03)

Hey, I'm just trying not to screw my own kids up. I'm not giving you advice on how not to screw your ass up.

B (26:07)

Search the parent chat on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back with here's the scoop from NBC News. Let's get to some headlines. More than 3,000 rallies and events are taking place across the country today to mark May Day, also known as International Workers Day. Demonstrators from Philadelphia to Chicago to the Bay Area are protesting President Trump's immigration policies and calling for taxes on the rich in international rallies. The rising cost of energy tied to the US And Israel's war with Iran was also a major theme. President Trump says he has given Spirit Airlines a, quote, final proposal for a federal bailout amid reports that the budget airline is laying the groundwork to completely shut down its operations if it can't come to a deal. Spirit has struggled in the face of high fuel prices, competition from larger airlines and the pandemic, and had been negotiating to get a $500 million government lifeline in recent weeks. Some investors and Republican lawmakers opposed the terms of the deal, which would give the government 90% ownership of spirit. The New York Times is reporting the existence of a suicide note purportedly written by the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and allegedly kept secret in a New York courthouse for almost seven years. A cellmate told the Times that he discovered the note Back in 2019 after Mr. Epstein was found unresponsive with a strip of cloth around his neck. He survived that incident but was found dead in his cell weeks later, according to the Times. A federal judge eventually sealed the note as part of the cellmate's criminal case, which means the Department of Justice may have lacked a key piece of evidence in its investigation into his death. NBC News has not seen the note and has not confirmed the Times it's reporting. The DOJ told NBC News that it also had not seen the note and said it had undergone an exhaustive effort to release more than 3 million pages of documents related to Epstein. Five more states are joining a federal antitrust lawsuit aimed at stopping nexstar and Tegna from merging and creating the largest local television station operator in the country. In a statement, Nexstar called the state AGs, quote, misguided and said that local broadcast stations would fail without the deal. Tegna did not respond to a request for comment. And finally, break out your best hats and pour yourself a mint julep. The Kentucky Derby is tomorrow. 20 horses and jockeys are going to be vying for a win and we are likely to see massive sums of money bet in all directions, which could translate to a very big payday if you hit your wagon to the right star. Chief data analyst Steve Kornacki is going to be at Churchill Downs with the big board and he has got the storylines that you have to know.

F (29:02)

This is an unusually wide open Derby. The favorite looks like he's going to be Renegade. But a couple other horses to keep in mind here. The Florida Derby is generally considered this year to be the best of the qualifying races for the Derby. Three horses coming out of that all clearly have a big shot in this race. There's Commandment, there's one four straight races that includes the Florida Derby, the Puma. He lost the Commandment in a photo finish in the Florida Derby. Certainly fits right here. And in third place in that race was Chief Wallaby. But Wallaby is trained by Bill Mott, who only went out and won this race last year and is one of the top trainers of all time. But look, it's the Kentucky Derby. Listen to any supposed expert at your own peril. This is a race for you to take a look at, figure out what makes sense for you and take a shot at it. And enjoy the fastest two minutes in sports.

B (29:50)

So who is Steve's pick? If you want to find out, he is going to be announcing it live on NBC on Saturday night. Saddle up everybody that is going to do it for us. Here's the scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Desugin. We'll be back on Monday with whatever the weekend may bring. And if you like what you heard, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also subscribe to our daily newsletter, the Inside Scoop. It is a deeper dive on the main stories of the day that comes out every weeknight straight to your inbox. You can sign up for the Inside Scoop as part of our paid subscription@nbcnews.com we'll see you Monday. This week on MEET THE press. The war with Iran heads into its third month as gas prices spike. Is there any end in sight? Plus, we'll dig into the former FBI director's second indictment and the fallout over another assassination attempt this week on Meet THE Press. Listen to the full episode now. Wherever you get your podcasts.