Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (2:27)

Hey there.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (2:29)

So Comey moved to dismiss this case, and U.S. district Judge Cameron Curry just said she agreed with him. Remind us about this case against Comey and how we actually got to this moment.

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (2:41)

Sure. So Letitia James and James Comey both charged with crimes, very separate, very different crimes in the Eastern District of Virginia. The interim U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia is Lindsey Halligan. The big question here though, was whether or not she was appointed lawfully. Because if she wasn't appointed lawfully, then she shouldn't have been able to bring these charges in the first place. And that is the key to all of this. So both Letitia James and James Comey filed motions saying, hey, we're questioning whether or not you were actually appointed lawfully. A judge from South Carolina, her name is Cameron Curry, she came in, heard the arguments for both Letitia James and James Comey in a really rare single hearing where attorneys, both of them presented their arguments. And she just this afternoon has decided that not only was Lindsey Halligan appointed unlawfully, but she wasshe has dismissed the indictments of both James Comey and Letitia James without prejudice.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (3:39)

What does a lawful appointment look like for the U.S. attorney of the Eastern District of Virginia?

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (3:45)

So usually how this happens, and this happens all over the country in every single state, is the President gets to appoint the U.S. attorney and that person has to be confirmed by the U.S. senate. That's how this usually goes. You are allowed to have an interim U.S. attorney for 120 days. The judge here found that you cannot have multiple 120 day interim US Attorneys because then that takes the job out of the hands of Congress and into the hands of the President and the district Court. That's not how this is supposed to go. So what happened here was there was an interim U.S. attorney, his name was Eric Siebert. He served for 120 days, then he got out of here. And it was then Lindsey Halligan was put in the position and she was not confirmed by the U.S. senate. This is in part because perhaps the Trump administration did not feel like she was going to be able to be confirmed by the U.S. senate. She has no prior prosecutorial experience and she did serve as a very close advisor and an insurance lawyer in Florida.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (4:41)

I want to read for you, Gary, exactly what the judge said in this decision. So the judge says the appointment of Ms. Halligan as interim U.S. attorney violated, and they cite a clause of the U.S. constitution, all actions flowing from Ms. Halligan's defective appointment, including securing and signing Mr. Comey's indictment were unlawful exercises of executive power and are hereby set aside. The Attorney General's attempts to ratify Ms. Halligan's actions were ineffective and are hereby set aside Mr. Comey's motion to dismiss. The indictment is granted. In accordance with this order, the indictment is dismissed without prejudice. And literally, if you take out Comey's name and put in Letitia James name, it read the exact same way. So when you say Gary without prejudice, what does that mean regarding being able to bring this case again?

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (5:34)

Yeah, this is sort of a legal term, but what it means in layman's terms is they can bring the case again. Right. However, in this case, in James Comey's case specifically, that may not be able to happen. And that's because the conduct that is alleged, the alleged criminal conduct by James Comey. Comey happened on September 30th of 2020. That's more than five years ago now. We're already into November at this point. They indicted James Comey just a few days before that five year statute of limitations comes up. And it was a statute of limitations related to lying to Congress and obstruction of Congress. So because we are now well past statute of limitations, there's a real possibility that his indictment may not be able to be rebrought because they are past that date. Now, there are some very rarely used statutes in the US Criminal Code that says that if an indictment dismissed for any reason, even if it's beyond the statute of limitations, an indictment can be rebrought. However, they're going to have to find a valid U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia to do that. And I think that's an important part here now as it relates to Letitia James. The conduct that is alleged in her indictment happened in 2024, and so that she is well within the statute of limitations in terms of them being able to find a lawfully appointed U.S. attorney and trying to find a grand jury to indict her again.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (6:50)

What does this mean for any other things that Halligan has actually brought forward in her position?

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (6:54)

So that's actually a really big question because of course we're talking about James Comey and Letitia James, but there's dozens of people that get indicted on a weekly basis in the Eastern District of Virginia. And if she is the only person from the U.S. attorney's office that signed those indictments, those indictments are in serious jeopardy, too. And those could be people that have actually committed serious crimes. And I think that's an important point to make here. And with Lisa James. But some serious criminal activity that could have gone on that perhaps is now invalid. And they'll have to find another U.S. attorney who is willing to bring these charges and a grand jury who's willing to indict.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (7:28)

So at this moment, Lindsey Halligan is not legally allowed to be the U.S. attorney of the Eastern District of Virginia. So how and when do they get someone new in there?

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (7:39)

So certainly the president has the ability to appoint someone to that position. But we have seen time and time again that the U.S. attorney's office in the Eastern District of Virginia is not interested in what the president is interested in in terms of indicting and trying to tr. Criminally charge some of his perceived political enemies. That's not something that the Eastern District is interested in. And one of the great examples of that is in Letitia James case. The attorney for that was from the US District in Missouri. They couldn't find anybody in Virginia to actually be part of that case. So it was Lindsey Halligan and a guy from the U.S. attorney's office in Missouri standing up there in Norfolk, Virginia, trying to proceed with this case.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (8:17)

Gary Grumbach, thank you.

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (8:18)

Thank you, guys.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (8:19)

By the way, after we spoke with Gary, we got a statement from the White House spokeswoman, Abigail Jackson said, quote, the facts of the indictments against Comey and James have not changed. And this will not be the final word on this matter. We're going to take a very quick break. And when we are back, could there really be an end to the Russia Ukraine war. This season?

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NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (9:01)

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NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (9:12)

Now, who's ready for some football?

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This week on Meet THE Press. Fresh off his meeting with President Trump at the White House, Mayor Elect Zoran Mandani sits down with Kristen Welker. Plus Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant and Senator Amy Klobuchar on the Epstein files and concerns over the economy this week on Meet THE Press. Listen to the full episode wherever you get your podcasts.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (10:08)

And we are back with here's the scoop from NBC News. So we are just a few days away from President Trump's Thanksgiving deadline to end the war between Russia and Ukraine, which has become the deadliest war in Europe since World War II. Trump's foreign policy team, led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, traveled to Geneva to meet with Ukrainian officials. The two nations issued a joint statement describing, quote, meaningful progress from the highly productive talks, though no specific details. Details have in fact been given. Russia has not been involved in these Geneva talks and continues to launch drone strikes against Ukraine, including in the eastern city of Kharkiv. So what is in this 28 point peace deal that the US has crafted and how is it being received? I want to bring in NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel, who's in Geneva, Switzerland. Hi, Richard.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (10:56)

It's great to be with you as always. And this time in cold, wet, rainy, expensive Geneva.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (11:04)

Yeah. Whenever we talk to you, you are in a different spot and you're there because of these ongoing peace talks. So before we kind of get into the politics of these talks, I want to understand what's actually in this 28 point peace plan.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (11:18)

We have some broad outlines of sort of what the Ukrainians and the Americans are talking about.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (11:24)

Right.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (11:24)

But very vague and very big differences. And we have no idea if Putin is going to go for this and he's rejected them in the past. So, yes, I'm here in Geneva. Yes, I'm covering these talks. Yes, I'm pinging all my sources and there is still a lot of uncertainty. When we heard just a short while ago President Trump saying, oh, yeah, we're seeing lots of progress. And Rubio was saying we're seeing lots of progress. I don't exactly know what they're talking about because I'm looking at multiple competing plans. No consensus, the two warring parties not talking and a lot of exhaustion about the war in Ukraine, but no enthusiasm for this particular peace plan as people understand it.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (12:09)

What is in from what, you know, the two different peace plans, radically different peace plans.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (12:15)

So Vladimir Putin for the last couple of years has said that he would end the war on certain conditions, Russia's terms. His terms initially he invaded Ukraine with the goal of taking over the entire country. Country. He changed his demands after it was pretty clear that that goal was not feasible, at least right now.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (12:37)

Got it.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (12:38)

So what he said he was going to do is he could accept if Russia got all of these big four provinces. So Ukraine would have to voluntarily surrender territory to Russia, including, you know, towns and cities and these provinces. Ukraine is big. So imagine handing over four states in the United States. Well, the 28 point plan that the Trump administration put forward just a short while ago, we're talking the last week or so, very much mirrors Vladimir Putin's demands. That 28 point peace plan that was put forward by the Trump administration, according to many Ukrainians that we've been speaking to, according to many European officials who've said this publicly, is kind of taking Putin's talking points, Putin's demands and repackaging them as if they were a peace proposal.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (13:32)

So it's potential peace on President Vladimir Putin's terms. It is, to be clear, Ukrainian capitulation to end the war.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (13:40)

It is Ukrainian capitulation. Then just in the last several days, European countries, Germany and France, taking a very active role, put together a competing 28 point plan that has to sort of sit on top of the Trump plan. So they have to take a lot of the language that's already in there and make it look like it's the same plan. But you hide, they're hiding their sort of pro Ukrainian stance into the details.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (14:12)

Now that there's this European plan out there that differs ever so slightly from.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (14:18)

Ever so slightly, but in every way.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (14:19)

But in every way. At what point does Putin come into the conversation?

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (14:23)

Soon. Soon. So that, so they've left. I'm in Geneva. I'm all by myself now, just, just me. And I'm saying the delegates have left. And this meeting, to be clear, was the Ukrainians and the Americans meeting to try and come up with some joint position. So they're. The point of these meetings here was to get sort of a, on the same page based off of Russia's position. The Europeans came in with this counter proposal to soften the talks because they felt they were being cut out of all of this. So the Ukrainians came here to Geneva. They were talking about Putin's points. Then they were also talking about the European points and trying to figure out is there a happy medium that they can walk away with.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (15:12)

Got it.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (15:13)

Apparently they may have come up with some sort of happy medium. What that is, no one is saying. I think they're not saying it because it's still in flux. And all the sides now have gone back to talk to their respective leadership and then Putin will get to weigh in.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (15:30)

So now are Ukrainians at this point where they've just lost too many resources, lost too many lives, and they just want this war to end.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (15:40)

It depends on what that price is. Of course they want the war over. I mean, who would want to keep fighting? There are strains and there are stresses and people want the war over. A thousand percent. If you could say, okay, everyone who here wants the war over, every single Ukrainian would raise their hands up, but every single Ukrainian would also say, yeah, under what conditions do we just have to roll over on our belly so that tomorrow or the next day or a year or two years from now, Putin comes back and does even worse to our families and even worse to our grandparents and our sisters and their kids. So, yes, they want the war to be over because only a crazy person wouldn't. But they're not willing to put themselves what they believe in even more danger just to stop the fighting now.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (16:29)

Richard Engel, thank you.

NBC News Correspondent Richard Engel (16:31)

My pleasure. And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (16:34)

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. All right, let's get to some headlines. Customers who pre ordered the Trump Mobile phone are still waiting months after its promised release date. The device was announced in June by Donald Trump's sons at Trump Tower, featuring an American flag design and a price tag of $499 with an expected August launch. But November is almost gone, and customer service told NBC News last week no phones have been delivered. NBC News placed an order in August to track the phone's development. Here's NBC News business and data correspondent Brian Chung.

NBC News Business Correspondent Brian Chung (17:07)

We wanted to track this project as it was happening, and we would call every few weeks and say, hey, where's this phone? And a a live call center with a real person operated, I believe, out of St. Louis, kept telling us it'd be the end of this month. Oh, wait, no. Now there's some delays. It'll come out next month. There were never any explanations for the delays, even though I asked. And it raises the question of whether or not this phone really exists.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (17:33)

The Trump Mobile website also removed its Made in the USA promise and now says the phone is, quote, brought to life right here in the USA with American proud design. The Pentagon announced it is investigating Democratic Senator Mark Kelly over allegations of misconduct and could recall the retired Navy captain to active duty for court martial. The probe follows a video Kelly made with five other Democratic lawmakers stating service members can refuse illegal orders. A video which President Trump called traitorous. Kelly can be prosecuted because he retired as a senior officer, keeping him subject to military law. In a statement on X, Kelly said, quote, if this is meant to intimidate me and other members of Congress from doing our jobs and holding this administration accountable, it won't work. Baby Elephant alert. The National Zoo's 12 year old Asian elephant, Nealon, is expecting her first calf this winter, the zoo's first elephant birth in nearly 25 years. The father is the zoo's sole bull elephant spike. And here's the wild part. This baby already weighs between 150 and 180, 75 pounds compared to a human baby's 7 pounds. Zookeepers are in full baby proofing mode as they prep for what's shaping up to be DC's most adorable winter debut. And Godspeed to that mother when she gives birth to that huge baby. Oh yeah but oh yeah. Oh yeah. Jamaican reggae legend Jimmy Cliff has died at the age of 81. On his official Instagram account, Cliff's family announced he passed after a seizure and pneumonia. Cliff's been in the music game since the 60s with a multifaceted discography ranging from feel good music to political commentary. You may recognize some of Jimmy Cliff's hits like the Harder They Come. And everyone recognizes this cover. His song Vietnam was declared by Bob Dylan to be the, quote, greatest protest song ever written. Yesterday I got a letter from my.

Legal Affairs Reporter Gary Grumbach (19:45)

Friend fighting in Vietnam.

NBC News Host Yasmin Vesugian (19:49)

Cliff also has two Grammy wins and seven nominations under his belt. Jimmy Cliff sits with Bob Marley as the only Jamaicans to ever be inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. And that's gonna do it for us AT here's the SupermanBC News. I'm Yasmin Vesugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. And if you like what you heard, subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you tomorrow.

True Crime Podcast Narrator (20:20)

On the night before Halloween in 1975, 15 year old Martha Moxley was murdered. But police failed to make an arrest until in 2000, her one time neighbor Michael Skakel was arrested. He was also a cousin of the Kennedys. The Kennedy connection is the reason that most people know about this case. But the deeper I dug, the more I came to question everything I thought I knew. Search Dead Certain the Martha Moxley Murder on Apple Podcasts. To listen to the latest episodes each week.