Raf Sanchez (2:09)

Hey, Yasmin.

Yasmin Vestygian (2:11)

Good to have you. Raf, what is going on in Europe with this flurry of drone sightings? Where they're coming from?

Raf Sanchez (2:17)

So almost every night now for weeks somewhere in Europe, people are seeing drones up in the sky, they're often over major civilian airports and that's halting air traffic. So you just have passengers trying to get from Frankfurt to Oslo and their flight is being canceled because there are drones that nobody can explain up in the sky above it. European governments say at this point they can't say for sure who's behind it, but they certainly suspect that it's the Russians. And back in early September, you might remember that we did have confirmed Russian drones flying into Polish airspace. And it set off, it was really, really a wake up call for Europe. NATO responded in a really traditional military way. They sent a bunch of advanced fighter jets up and for seven hours they chased these drones all over the skies across Europe. They shot down a bunch of them. But it really highlighted that NATO has what I think of as like kind of a basic money problem here. Because these drones from Russia, they cost about $10,000 each. They're made often of polystyrene, sometimes they're made literally of wood. They have a little engine on the back. The fighter jets that NATO scrambled to shoot them down cost $80 million apiece. Wow. Missiles that they fire cost minimum half a million dollars apiece. And so you can see very quickly that the numbers here don't add up. Russia is capable of making hundreds of these drones every day. And NATO's only ability to intercept them involves this incredibly expensive equipment that you can't produce easily in big numbers. And so the question now is, how does NATO, how does Europe find a way to deal with these large scale Russian drone incursions in a way that doesn't break the bank?

Yasmin Vestygian (4:07)

So to be clear, we don't have confirmation they are Russian drones. But you said there are suspicions that in fact they are originating from Russia. What is Russia saying about it? And what would be the objective of allowing these drones to fly over sensitive areas if in fact Russia were responsible? And again, we don't know if they are.

Raf Sanchez (4:25)

The Kremlin flat out denying it. The suspicion, especially in the case of these military bases, is that this is espionage, that whoever is behind it wants to see what is going on on the ground. In the incident in Poland back in September, because those drones were shot down, forensic investigators were able to take a look at them and say with high confidence that these were Russian drones. It happened while the Russians were launching one of their big aerial attacks on Ukraine. So the drones may have been part of that attack on Ukraine. And then they broke off and they headed into Polish territory. I spoke to the Polish foreign minister, I asked him why do you think Russia did this? He says he believes it was a test of NATO's air defenses. They wanted to see would NATO actually open fire? How long would it take them to get jets in the sky? How long would it take them to intercept? How many of these drones could get over sensitive targets? And he suspects that the Russians probably learned a lot from how NATO responded.

Yasmin Vestygian (5:22)

So in response, the European leaders are pushing for plans for this quote, unquote, drone wall. And you actually have companies like the one that you visited that are cropping up to combat this strat of these drones. What is a drone wall and what are they doing to combat it?

Raf Sanchez (5:39)

Yeah, so dronewall in some ways is kind of a misleading term. It almost makes you think of like Game of Thrones, that they're going to build one big solid structure to like keep these Dr. What this actually refers to is kind of layered air defences. So you'd have traditional things like fighter jet patrols, you'd have interceptor missiles. But then you also need much cheaper, much more agile modern technology specifically designed to take down drones. And so this company we went to see in Latvia, it's called Origin Robotics, the founder of this company initially made drones for extreme sports. So if you were doing really hardcore downhill mountain bik, he could build you a drone that would follow you along the course so you could review your own performance. But also if you were airing it on TV or something, you'd get great drone footage. After the start of the war in Ukraine, he pivoted into defense tech. And so this company is making a system called Blaze. And these are basically low cost drone interceptors. So if you look at it, it's about three feet high, it's got four little propellers on it, it takes off vertically like a rocket ship. And it's powered by trains to recognize hostile drones, to fly up close to them, and then it sort of locks on, it stays on their tail. And the final stage is a human operator. The human operator isn't flying. The drone doesn't have to pilot it. But the human operator has to make the decision about whether this interceptor should take down its target or not. And it would be just a much, much cheaper and much simpler way to take down a drone, rather than calling for an F35 to fly in from a nearby military base.

Yasmin Vestygian (7:26)

Well, let's talk more about the cost there, because you have mentioned that NATO has a, a cost problem, a spending problem, a financial problem. So would this be something that is more affordable, for instance, and can they scale up the technology quickly enough to combat all of these drones that are coming into sensitive areas.

Raf Sanchez (7:44)

So those are the two absolutely key questions on the question of is it affordable? They wouldn't go into detail about how much exactly each of these interceptors cost. But the chief executive of Origin told us the basic principle here is that your interceptor needs to be 10 times cheaper than what it's intercepting. The question, though, is scale. We went to this factory in Riga, the capital of Latvia, and factory in some ways is a little bit generous because you have people there assembling these drones by hand. You really, really have the sense of that this is a cottage industry still. And what the founder said is that Europe really needs to decide. It really needs to pick a couple of companies that it's going to invest in that are going to be at the forefront of this drone defense technology. It needs to go big on them, and then those companies need to start producing at scale.

Yasmin Vestygian (8:41)

What does this say about the relationship between Europe and Russia right now? Raf?

Raf Sanchez (8:46)

It's really tense. There's a term hybrid warfare, which is what people in Europe accuse Russia of waging right now. And it basically means mounting non traditional military attacks, but still carrying out just relentless operations of sabotage, for example, cutting undersea cables that carry energy that carry data to Europe, setting fire to strategic targets. There was an incident here in the UK where three local British criminals were hired by Russian intelligence to set fire to a warehouse that was full of aid going over to Ukraine. And I think the chancellor of Germany put it well, he was asked about the relationship with Russia and he said, we're not at war, but we're not at peace either.

Yasmin Vestygian (9:36)

Raf Sanchez, thank you.

Raf Sanchez (9:38)

Thank you.

Yasmin Vestygian (9:40)

Coming up, what if you had half a century to pay off your home? That is the president's latest idea. And some are raising an eyebrow or two. That's coming up next.

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Yasmin Vestygian (10:17)

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Yasmin Vestygian (11:04)

Welcome back to here's the scoop from NBC News. So we have known for a while that Americans are being priced out of the housing market across the country. But now we've got the data to back it all up. It turns out Americans are waiting longer than ever to buy their first home with the median age for first time homebuyers just hitting 40 years old, according to a report from the national association of Realtors, who said that's the oldest age since they started keeping a record back in 1981. But President Trump is floating this controversial new idea to combat the housing affordability crisis, a 50 year mortgage as a way to lower monthly mortgage payments. But critics warn this is not a solution. Joining me now is NBC News's business and data correspondent, Brian Chung. Okay, I bought my first home in my late 30s. I have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage and I refinanced obviously during COVID.

Raf Sanchez (11:56)

So I got real lucky with that low rate.

Yasmin Vestygian (11:58)

Right. My rate. But I'll be paying off my home in my 60s. If you have a 50 year mortgage and you're buying a house at 40, possibly or even in your 30s, you're looking at maybe never the rest of your life. Your home.

NBC News Reporter (12:13)

Yeah, it's the rest of your life.

Yasmin Vestygian (12:14)

How does this work?

NBC News Reporter (12:15)

Well, it's pretty self explanatory, right? I mean the 30 year mortgage is already a long period of time. You are saying, hey, you know what, instead of having to pay, you know, that $400,000 upfront, which is around the price for a median home, it's like I think $410,000. But instead of paying that all up front, you're just splitting up the payments and you're paying interest over it. And if you spread it out over 30 years, you hope that those monthly bites at that debt is going to be small enough for you to handle given the income that you have from your job or wherever you're getting your money from. So the idea here is that with home affordability still an issue, even breaking up the cost of that home into 30 years, well then the president's suggesting why don't we just break it up over a longer period of time? Why not break it up over 50 years? But the question, Yasmine, is whether or not people at 90 years old finally building equity, if you even manage to pay it off are going to feel good about that decision. And who at even 40 is going to be mapping out, outlaying their finances for the rest of their life saying, you know what, I want to be indebted forever. That's a hard sell.

Yasmin Vestygian (13:15)

How did this happen that home prices have gone as insane as they have, but our income has not kept up with the pace of how high prices are in buying homes?

NBC News Reporter (13:26)

I mean, the culprit that most people would point to is housing supply. And that over the last, let's call it 30 to 40 years, the United States has not built enough housing to control the demand for people trying to buy homes, trying to move to new places. This is a much more mobile generation. So we have to remember that, you know, whereas boomers were able to buy a home, live and work in the same place for forever, people are turning over their homes more often because they're taking jobs in different parts of the country, they're moving around, they don't need to to plant the roots as much. So for that reason, a lot of people are constantly looking for new homes and there's not enough supply out there, there's not enough single family homes, there's not enough condos. It's a simple economics matter of supply and demand. If you have more people searching for fewer homes, what happens? They start to bid up the price. That makes home price appreciation accelerate.

Yasmin Vestygian (14:16)

Well, and by the way, if you have a 50 year mortgage, the same thing is gonna happen again.

NBC News Reporter (14:20)

Well, and this is exactly what people I've been talking to have said is kind of the self defeating purpose of the President's proposal here, which I should point out, we don't know how serious some legal regulatory questions over whether or not a 50 year mortgage is even possible. But the idea that a 50 year mortgage would even alleviate affordability is a big if. Because if you think about it holding all else equal. If there are no new houses or condo units that are popping up anywhere in a market where a person is trying to buy a home, if you now have a 50 year mortgage as an option to finance, well, that's going to bring in marginally maybe one or two more buyers. But if you're talking about a home that was going to have maybe four or five people bidding on it, and now you have six or seven people bidding on it, the chances are that that home is going to close at a higher price than prior to a 50 year mortgage having existed. So it doesn't really do the job of solving this affordability issue. If you're just Telling people, well, we're just going to work with the bank to help you get this loan a little bit easier.

Yasmin Vestygian (15:15)

And I know you talked a little bit about this, but I think it's an important thing to focus in on, which is if you're paying over this 50 year mortgage, you're actually spending a heck of a lot more money than you would over 30 years.

NBC News Reporter (15:25)

Yeah. May I do some math for you? Is that permitted on the pod?

Yasmin Vestygian (15:27)

Please do.

NBC News Reporter (15:28)

So I don't have a whiteboard here, but let's talk about a 30 year mortgage. Right. So at current interest rates, it's about 6%. If you pay a 10% down payment on that median home, again around $410,000, you're paying roughly $2,300 per month just in interest and principal.

Yasmin Vestygian (15:44)

With 10% down.

NBC News Reporter (15:46)

With 10% down. So over a 50 year mortgage, the same home, let's assume it's the same interest rate. We don't know it would be the same interest rate. It actually would likely be higher. But if you assume the same interest rate over 50 years, again, you're spreading it out over a longer period of time. So those monthly payments will be smaller. They'll be smaller by about $260 per month, which might sound good to people. But again, you're paying over a 20 year longer period, which means over the length of the entire loan. Whereas for a 30 year mortgage, you would be paying about $820,000 in terms of the principal and the interest over 30 years. For 50 years it would be $1.2 million for the same home.

Nordstrom Rack Announcer (16:23)

Wow.

NBC News Reporter (16:24)

That's almost $400,000 more expensive.

Yasmin Vestygian (16:26)

So, so what is their solution? What are some things that you've heard from folks that you've been speaking to that say maybe this is a better solution because there is a major economic gap. So what is the solution for affordability?

NBC News Reporter (16:39)

Yeah, and again, you're talking about younger people that can't build equity because they can't buy a home, they just have to rent. But when you rent, you're building no equity. You're not getting any sort of wealth. And again, the solution that I keep hearing time and time again is build more housing. Build it in the urban areas, more dense buildings that have a lot of units that can go to lower income people that can afford them. Build more single family homes in even rural areas where there haven't been new builds in a long period of time. The challenge as any politician or any home builder is that you cannot build homes overnight.

Yasmin Vestygian (17:10)

Yeah.

NBC News Reporter (17:11)

So I think There are a lot of people that are trying to look at quick solutions and the 50 year mortgage is one of them. But it'd be a lot easier, I know this sounds crazy, but it'd be a lot easier to go to Congress and try to just close, you know, a definition of the qualified mortgage to allow a 50 year mortgage to be guaranteed by the government than it is to try to incentivize the homebuilders and then wait for the home builders to, you know, build, build all these new complexes and all these new large condo buildings. It takes years, it takes decades sometimes for large projects like that to happen.

Yasmin Vestygian (17:40)

Brian Chung, thank you. Thanks. All right, let's get to some headlines. More than 20,000 pages of Epstein's typo filled emails and messages were released by congressional committee on Wednesday. New information is still trickling out. Turns out convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein was talking about President Trump months before Epstein's own arrest. Back In June of 2019, Jeffrey Epstein was texting with an unknown person who told Epstein, quote, it will all blow over and that the end game was really, quote, trying to take down Trump. Epstein's reply, it's wild because I am the one able to take him down. The text exchange is part of a trove of documents released by the House Oversight Committee. Both Democrats and Republicans released documents. House Speaker Mike Johnson said next week he would bring a vote to the floor to release the remaining so called Epstein files. President Trump has denied any wrongdoing. Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania was hospitalized in Pittsburgh this morning after sustaining a fall during an early morning walk near his home. The senator's office stated that the fall was caused by a ventricular fibrillation flare up which led him to feel lightheaded and hit his face, resulting in minor injuries. He was transported to the hospital out of an abundance of caution and is currently receiving routine observation. Fetterman has opted to remain hospitalized so doctors can fine tune his medication regimen. Despite the incident, the senator is reported to be doing well, even joking, quote, if you thought my face looked bad before, wait until you see it now. Another health update. Civil rights leader Reverend Jesse Jackson was hospitalized in Chicago overnight, a person familiar with the situation telling NBC News Jackson had an elevated pulse and what was described as a rattle in his chest. They say he's under observation for a rare progressive brain disorder that affects balance, speech and swallowing. The 84 year old has been managing this condition for more than a decade. In a statement, Jackson's family says they appreciate all prayers at this time. A federal judge in Virginia is weighing a bid to toss out the indictments against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James, this time zeroing in on how the prosecutor who brought the charges got her job at a rare joint hearing. U.S. district Judge Cameron Curry, brought in from South Carolina to avoid any conflicts, heard lawyers for both defendants argue that the Trump administration sidestepped the usual rules when it installed interim U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan, a former White House lawyer. Their argument? If Halligan was appointed illegally, the indictment shouldn't stand. An attorney for the Justice Department characterized questions about the appointment of Halligan as a, quote, paperwork error. The indictments against Comey and James, both of whom have pled not guilty, landed soon after Trump started calling for charges against them and other people he viewed as political adversaries. The judge said she would make her ruling by Thanksgiving on whether to disqualify Acting U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan from her post in the Eastern District of Virginia. You know what that music means Time for some Olympics News the 2028 Games in Los Angeles are kicking off with a bang and a burst of pure speed. For the first time in Olympics history, the women's 100 meter final will headline opening night on July 15, turning day one at the LA Memorial Coliseum into a sprint filled spectacle. All three rounds of the event are happening that same night, giving the world's fastest women the honor of blowing the doors off these Olympics from the very first gun. And that's going to do it for us. Set. Here's the scoop from NBC News. I'm Yasmin Vestugin. We'll be back tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. And if you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe to the show. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll see you tomorrow.

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