“Unschooling” 101: A new lesson in learning

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Unschooling” 101: A New Lesson in Learning

Podcast: Here’s the Scoop (NBC News)
Host: Yasmin Vossoughian
Guest Reporter: Morgan Radford
Air Date: September 1, 2025
Main Theme: Exploring the “unschooling” movement, its principles, practicalities, critiques, and the reasons behind its rise.

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the growing trend of "unschooling"—an educational approach where children learn guided by their own interests, outside the bounds of traditional classroom structures and even standard homeschooling. Host Yasmin Vossoughian and NBC News reporter Morgan Radford discuss the distinctions between unschooling and other educational models, share firsthand perspectives from a family practicing unschooling, and examine broader implications and debates around this movement.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What is Unschooling?

• Definition: Unlike traditional schooling or homeschooling, unschooling removes structured curricula and places the child’s interests at the center of their learning.
  • Morgan Radford (02:17): “It is the idea of not having your children in a formal classroom... the child is disciplined enough to know what it is that they themselves are interested in, and their education happens in their naturally occurring ambient.”
• Flexibility and Approach: Learning is guided by the student. There are no set tests, lesson plans, or curricula.

2. Distinction from Homeschooling

• Unschooling is less structured than homeschooling, which often follows some curriculum or set standards.
  • Yasmin Vossoughian (02:48): “There's no curriculum.”
  • Morgan Radford (02:50): "It actually has less curriculum, less sort of guardrails, if you will, less structure than even homeschooling."

3. How Unschooling Looks in Practice

• Day-to-day activities can include visiting parks, beaches, museums, or following a child’s fascination (e.g., learning everything about frogs).
  • Morgan Radford (03:06): "The family that I interviewed for this story, the Kramer family... they would go to the beach, they would go to the aquarium… if her kid is into frogs that week, they’d learn everything about frogs."

4. Potential Gaps and Socialization Concerns

• Concerns include missing exposure to a variety of subjects (that children might not know exist) and encountering diverse peers and mentors.
  • Morgan Radford (03:57): "It’s not just the gaps in actual content knowledge. It’s also gaps potentially in people. How do you meet Ms. Rowan if your mama is your only teacher?"
  • Yasmin Vossoughian (04:21): "It’s about social development, right?... You’re missing out on all of that with this unschooling movement."

5. Personalization versus Challenges

• Some parents appreciate the ability to tailor learning to their child’s strengths and paces, breaking away from the “one-size-fits-all” classroom model.
  • Morgan Radford (04:49): “She’s able to actually see the complete picture beyond categories, which is an interesting concept, right?”
• The interviewed mother manages unschooling while working part-time, organizing her schedule with her husband.
  • Morgan Radford (05:29): “She works about four hours a day... does an opposite schedule from her husband or works during nap time.”

6. Parents’ Confidence and Resourcefulness

• Both hosts express they wouldn’t have the confidence or patience to unschool their own children.
  • Morgan Radford (06:15): “Look, it could not be me. I frankly, I cannot do it... I literally just don't have the confidence that I can teach you trig...”
  • The unschooling parent brings in outside resources or tutors for areas where needed.

7. Privilege, Choice, and Economic Realities

• The ability to unschool may be influenced by privilege—flexible work schedules, financial stability, and location.
  • Yasmin Vossoughian (07:35): “Does seem to me, though, to be more of a privileged choice... They have the ability to go to parks and beaches and things that feasibly could cost money.”
  • Morgan Radford (07:52): “A lot of these moms... would say, actually, no, we’re not living a life of financial luxury, but we are living a life of luxury of our choices…”

8. What’s the Scope of the Movement?

• Hard to track, as some states don’t require notification; the movement is visible on social media but not easily quantifiable.
  • Morgan Radford (08:42): “There are 12 states that actually don’t require to notify the state... So I couldn’t even give you... a comfortable second source in this moment because the numbers are so hard to capture.”

9. Community Support and Trend Outlook

• Online and local communities are forming to share unschooling resources and support.
  • Morgan Radford (09:28): “Oh, yes. They’re like... a lot of moms supporting other moms, parents supporting other parents.”
• The trend may continue as families seek more control amid economic uncertainty.
  • Morgan Radford (09:36): “I think that this will continue... people feel… that they’re losing a lot of control.”

10. Personal Reflections from the Hosts

• Both hosts ultimately decide unschooling isn’t for them.
  • Morgan Radford (09:45): “I would never.”
  • Yasmin Vossoughian (09:46): “Me either.”
  • Morgan Radford (10:04): “I'm spending my time just trying to make a curious, healthy, happy, confident, powerful, free child.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Motivation for Unschooling:
  Morgan Radford (01:43):
  “There is an unschooling movement, and it’s really taken fire across social media. But like, also in the real world and in places, you’d be pretty surprised to see it happening.”

• On Missing Out:
  Morgan Radford (03:57):
  “It’s not just the gaps in actual content knowledge. It’s also gaps potentially in people. How do you meet Ms. Rowan if your mama is your only teacher?”

• On Parental Capacity:
  Morgan Radford (06:15):
  "Look, it could not be me... I literally just don't have the confidence that I can teach you trig and that I can teach you, like, you know, Michelle Foucault or what."

• On Privilege and Trade-offs:
  Morgan Radford (07:52):
  "We are living a life of luxury of our choices... I got my three kids under my roof... I have some say in how and what my children choose to learn."

• On Making Learning Personal:
  Morgan Radford (10:04):
  "I'm spending my time just trying to make a curious, healthy, happy, confident, powerful, free child."

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• [02:17] — What is unschooling?
• [03:06] — How the unschooling family manages day-to-day learning
• [03:57] — Concerns about missed social and educational opportunities
• [05:29] — How parents balance work and unschooling
• [07:35] — Socioeconomic and privilege aspect
• [08:42] — The challenge of measuring unschooling’s scale
• [09:28] — Supportive communities for unschooling families
• [09:36] — Is unschooling a trend or here to stay?
• [09:45–10:04] — Hosts on why unschooling doesn’t work for them

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Language & Tone

The conversation throughout is informal, curious, empathetic, and seasoned with personal anecdotes and humor. Both Morgan Radford and Yasmin Vossoughian draw on their experiences as mothers, alternating between fascination and skepticism about unschooling. They maintain a fair and inquisitive tone, balancing the reported perspectives with critical questions.

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In Summary

This episode provides a nuanced look at the unschooling movement, highlighting both its promises—greater freedom, personalization, and family agency—and its challenges, including potential social and educational gaps. The hosts stress that while unschooling is not for everyone, its growing popularity points to a broader shift in how some families are seeking control over their children’s education in uncertain times. Whether a fleeting trend or a sign of permanent change, unschooling sparks debate about the future of learning in America.

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Transcript

[Dahlia Lithwick]

At this very moment, we are living through a series of cascading constitutional crises, rocketing up to the Supreme Court and shaking the foundations of American democracy.

[Morgan Radford]

This is not a game of chicken where we back down from the Constitution. Like, that's not how this works.

[Dahlia Lithwick]

I'm Dahlia Lithwick, host of Amicus, Slate's podcast about the courts, the law, and the Supreme Court. I've been writing about SCOTUS and the law for more than 20 years. And each week on Amicus, we draw on that deep experience to navigate these incredibly unstable search Amicus. That's AM I C U S to Listen.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Hey, everybody, I'm Yasmin Vesugin, and welcome to here's the scoop from NBC News. Happy Labor Day, friends. Your scoop crew is off today, but come on, we would never ghost you. Since it is the unofficial start of fall and kids everywhere either back in the classroom or heading there this week, we thought we would flip the script on you. Instead of back to school, we are diving into the trend of unschooling. That is right. No bells, no homework, no rigid lesson plans. Just kids steering their own education, learning through life instead of textbooks. Some call it freedom. Critics call it risky. Morgan Radford sat down with the family living it and the experts weighing in on whether it's genius or just chaos. So sharpen your pencils or toss em out entirely. Let's get into it. Hi, Morgan.

[Morgan Radford]

Hey, mama. How are you?

[Yasmin Vasugian]

I'm good. It's good to talk to you.

[Morgan Radford]

I'm so excited about this.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

It's so fascinating and scary to me, I have to say, because my kids have been home this entire summer and I cannot wait for them to go back to school. But this unschooling thing, it's kind of catching fire a little bit, right?

[Morgan Radford]

It is. I pitched this story because I actually saw something on social media that one of the Kardashians had posted talking about school and kids returning to school. And I don't remember the details of the post, but I remember I left with a feeling that the poster thought it was, like, passe, this concept of sending kids into a classroom. And so I did some digging and I'm like, is this a thing? Are people doing this? And lo and behold, it is a thing. There is an unschooling movement, and it's really taken fire across social media. But like, also in the real world and in places, you'd be pretty surprised to see it happening.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

So what is unschooling?

[Morgan Radford]

It's actually different from homeschooling. Which I learned while reporting on this. It is the idea of not having your children in a formal classroom, but the idea is that they can learn from the environment around them and that the child is disciplined enough to know what it is that they themselves are interested in, and that their education happens in their naturally occurring ambient. And you follow them and you let them teach you. But unlike homeschooling, unschooling doesn't have tests, it doesn't have lesson plans. So it.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

There's no curriculum.

[Morgan Radford]

Not particularly. And of course, everything I'm saying, you know, every family can adapt it and do it differently, but it is. It actually has less curriculum, less sort of guardrails, if you will, less structure than even homeschooling.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Literally taking trips, going to parks, going to the beach. Part of unschooling.

[Morgan Radford]

Exactly. I mean, the family that I interviewed for this story, the Kramer family, they lived in the Tampa area, and they would go to the beach, they would go to the aquarium, they would study. You know, she'd say, oh, my kid is into, you know, frogs this week. So we'd look up every type of frog, every type of amphibian, and that would sort of guide them. And for me, as a mom, naturally, my first question is like, but what if the kid doesn't know what they don't know?

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Right? Exactly. They only know what they wanna know or what they wanna learn or what is immediately around that.

[Morgan Radford]

Exactly. I mean, I remember in high school, my favorite class was calculus. Math had never been. Well, no, math had never been. But that's the thing. Like, math had never been. I didn't like trig. I didn't like any of that stuff. But, like, calculus was awesome. And I think part of the reason why I loved it was because I had an awesome teacher, Ms. Rowan. And just made it so interesting.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Shout out to Ms. Rowan. Shout out to Ms. Rowan.

[Morgan Radford]

We love Ms. Rowan. But I mean, the question then becomes, what is a child missing?

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Right?

[Morgan Radford]

And someone pointed out to me after the story aired that it's not just the gaps in actual content knowledge. It's actually also gaps potentially in people. How do you meet Ms. Rowan if your mama is your only teacher? Right. But also other students, Right. Like, how are you meeting a diverse set of students if the only students in your quote unquote classroom are your siblings?

[Yasmin Vasugian]

I mean, that's the thing. It's like, when you think about school, it's not just learning to read, which we're going to get to, by the way, in a moment, and learning math and learning social Studies and history and whatever it else is that you want to learn and art and all that kind of stuff. But it's about the social development, right? Learning kind of social cues from people that are kind of more strangers to you in the school setting, to teachers, to parents of other students, to other students around you. You're missing out on all of that with this unschooling movement.

[Morgan Radford]

Yeah, I mean, I think for those of us who went to traditional school, it's part of the process of making the unfamiliar familiar, is part of the learning cur. But, you know, I mean, this mom was fascinating. I mean, she's a smart woman and she's like, look, I know my kids. I know what my kids need. I know what my kids don't need. And she's like, my kids are at an advanced reading level. But she also said what's interesting is that, you know, she's able to acknowledge where the gaps are, where the growth opportunities are. But it's not. Just like she said, you know, when they asked me what grade my kid's in, my kid may have a third grade reading level, may have a first grade math, may have a second. But like, she's able to actually see the complete picture beyond categories, which is an interesting concept, right?

[Yasmin Vasugian]

That has a job. She works.

[Morgan Radford]

She works. And I thought that was so interesting too. She's like, no, you can do this if you're a full time mom. Now, she said that she works about four hours a day, which, you know, obviously that's not going to be a full time schedule for a lot of people. But she says she does an opposite schedule, she said, from her husband, or she'll do the hours during nap time or sometimes nighttime, and her husband will. Will shift with her. When I asked the kids, hey, have you ever been inside a classroom? Unanimously, all three said no. And they said they loved it. And I said, what do your friends say? You know, what do your friends tell you when you say that you're, you know, for lack of a better word, homeschooled. Because that's what most people are more familiar. They said, oh, they're jealous. They say they wish they were homeschooled.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

How do they deal with the different levels of education? Even inside the home, when you have one child who's like 10 years old, one who's 6 years old, they're learning different things. Even when they're learning about frogs, for.

[Morgan Radford]

Instance, I mean, look, it could not be me. I frankly, I cannot do it. And I was honest with her. I was like, raven I don't have enough confidence as a parent that I can.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

More patience. I have to say for me, you.

[Morgan Radford]

Know, I gotta say, like, I'm actually pretty patient. I literally just don't have the confidence. I literally don't have the confidence that I can teach you trig and that I can teach you, like, you know, Michelle Foucault or what. I don't even know what these kids are learning.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

That's my point.

[Morgan Radford]

Like, I don't know. And she said, look, well, we get the resources, we bring the resources in, so if you need a chemistry tutor, I can bring in a chemistry tutor. Like, I know you. I understand you. I did.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Is she planning on doing this all the way through high school?

[Morgan Radford]

As far as she shared with me, yes.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

I can understand kind of the personalized take on. On education because I think a lot of parents have an overall frustration with their kids in schooling feeling as if, you know, 18 kids, for instance, in a classroom are being taught, but not being taught in an individualized way. Right. Because maybe their child learns differently than another kid. I get that portion of. Does seem to me, though, to be more of a privileged choice. And what I mean by that is, I know the woman you spoke to said that they both work, her and her husband, but she only works, as you mentioned, three to four hours a day. She works from home. They have the ability to go to parks and beaches and things that feasibly could cost money.

[Morgan Radford]

I think that's a fair point. I also think maybe it's just me, but haven't you even noticed anecdotally that in this economy where prices are so high, inflation's been so high, where will we or won't we, with, you know, lowering interest rates, you're seeing people make different choices.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Where.

[Morgan Radford]

I bet you, yes, a lot of these moms who were choosing to unschool would say, actually, no, we're not living a life of financial luxury, but we are living a life of luxury, of our choices. I've noticed people make so many different choices. Yes. In this economy, where it's like, that's a good point. You know what? Look, I may not live in a big old mansion, which this family did not live in a big old mansion. They weren't, you know, driving flash cars. But I bet you if we went back and asked her, she'd say, yeah, but I'm. I'm rich. Look at me. I got my three kids under my roof. I live in a great part of the country with great weather, and I have some say in how and what my children choose to learn. And I think we're seeing that type of choice more present in this economy where, like, people feel, I think, at least the people I've interviewed, that they're losing a lot of control.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

What percentage of kids are actually engaging in this unschooling.

[Morgan Radford]

You know what? We actually really struggled with those numbers. You see the trend right now, and you can see it anecdotally. You can see it on these, like, Reddit apps. You can see it on TikTok. But there are 12 states that actually don't require to notify the state, so you could actually decide to homeschool your kid and, like, that's it. They're really hard to capture. So I couldn't even give you, like, as a reporter, we have to have second source verification to make something reportable. I couldn't give you, like, a comfortable second source in this moment because the numbers are so hard to capture.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Well, but then how did you find this family that was engaging in them? She's.

[Morgan Radford]

No, she's a very public, like, social media person, influencer on this, and she, like, talks about and, like, lauds the benefits of it and teaches other people how to do it.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Are there communities, though, that are supporting people that are in kind of unschooling atmospheres?

[Morgan Radford]

Oh, yes. They're like. I mean, they're in it like a lot of moms supporting other moms, parents supporting other parents.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Do you think this is a flash in the pan or is it growing?

[Morgan Radford]

I think in this moment where so many people are looking to have control over their own lives, I think that this will continue.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

We're both moms. Would you. Would you ever do this?

[Morgan Radford]

I would never.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Me either.

[Morgan Radford]

I would never. Girl, I can barely. I said calc is my favorite class. I can barely calculate, like, 30% off.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Discount if I walk out this store right now down fifth Avenue. So y' all don't want me to. I'm telling you, this summer, my kids are like, what are we doing today? What are you doing today? I was like, I cannot wait for you to go back to school so you know exactly what you're doing every day.

[Morgan Radford]

I'm spending my time just trying to make a curious, healthy, happy, confident, powerful, free child.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

I don't have it in me.

[Morgan Radford]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Morgan Radford. Thank you.

[Morgan Radford]

Thank you.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

All right, everybody, sit tight. We'll be right back with a few school facts after this break. Oh, I'm not switching my team to some fancy work platform that somehow knows exactly how we work and its AI features are literally saving us hours every day. We're big fans. And just like that, teams all around.

[Morgan Radford]

The world are falling for Monday.com with.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Intuitive design, seamless AI capabilities and custom workflows, it's the work platform your team will instantly click with. Head to Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use.

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[Yasmin Vasugian]

Welcome back to here's the Scoop from NBC News. Since we have school on the brain, here are a few things that may make you say huh? I never knew that this fall, 5.7 million teachers are suiting up for another school year with chalk dust and coffee mugs and all of that just to wrangle and inspire 54.1 million K12 students, according to census.gov most of them are in elementary or middle schools, and even the littlest learners are getting in on the action. Nearly half of all three and four year olds are now enrolled in preschool, and all those kids need supplies. You remember when a new backpack and a box of crayons felt like the whole back to school hall? Well, fast forward to today and parents are dropping record cash an average $628 per child, up 4% from last year, according to the latest numbers from Savings.com that adds up to about $1,230 per household, turning the annual supply run into what some call quote the era of the super sized basket clothing topping the list at $157 per kid, electronics clocking in at $100 and basic supplies hitting $90. And with elementary school budgets jumping a whopping 26% year over year, moms and dads are basically moonlighting as hedge fund managers, tracking sales weekends, clipping digital coupons and strategizing like their kids GPA depends on it because sometimes it feels like it does. Speaking of supplies, Mom.com rounded up some of the weirdest school supply requests floating around classrooms. And let's just say parents might want to keep their Amazon carts open year round. Think potting soil for impromptu science experiments and shaving cream that doubles as a spelling aid in a desk cleaner. One list even called for gluten free paint because apparently finger painting is now part of the wellness movement. The result? A supply list that looks less like staples and more like the clearance aisle at Target. And if you thought hunting down number two pencils was stressful, just wait until your kid's teacher asks for compost worms. Come on now. Before we let you go, we figured we'd ask the real experts, the kids, what they're actually looking forward to going back to school.

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

I'm looking forward to math.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Math.

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

I like it. And also I'm looking forward to seeing my friends and going on the program.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

As for what my boy said, what are you most looking forward to this school year?

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

Going on field trips.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Field trips. Where do you want to go this year?

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

I want to go to a water.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Park for a field trip. Yeah. What are you looking forward to?

[Morgan Radford]

Um.

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

Having fun, I guess.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Oh. During recess. Mm. Right, guys?

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

He really likes wrestling.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

He likes wrestling at recess.

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

Yeah. With his friends.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

You do wrestle a lot at recess. Yeah. And sometimes you get in trouble for it.

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

Yeah. By the principal.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

We're not gonna do that this year, are we?

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

Maybe.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

We'll try not to. Right?

[Yasmin Vasugian's Children]

Yeah.

[Yasmin Vasugian]

Yeah. Well, I love you guys. I hope you have a great school year. Yes, everybody. Those are my children. Well, that's going to do it for us at here's the scoop from NBC News. Thanks for spending some time with us. We'll be back here tomorrow with whatever the day may bring. I'm Yasmin Vasugian.

[Kristen Wilker]

This week on Meet the Press. As Congress heads back to D.C. and deep divisions remain over President Trump's agenda, Kristen Wilker sits down with Senator James Lankford and Congressman Ro Khanna. Plus, a special meet the moment conversation with Hoda Kotb this week on Meet the Press. Listen to the full episode now. Wherever you get your podcasts.