Human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith joins me for one of the best debates we’ve ever had on Heretics. This is a clash of ideologies on some of the most divisive issues today.

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Reach out to Clive: clivestaffordsmith@gmail.com

Visit his site: https://justiceleague.org.uk

Follow him on X: https://x.com/clivessmith

And Insta: https://www.instagram.com/clivestaffordsmith

We go head-to-head on:

- Islam and culture in the West

- Socialism, communism, and the idea of utopia

- Privilege and identity politics

- The death penalty, crime, and justice

- Even the shocking reality of witnessing an execution in the electric chair

Clive and I disagree on almost everything — but that’s exactly why this conversation matters. If you’ve ever wondered how the “other side” thinks about prisons, privilege, or politics, this is the episode to watch.

👉 Let me know in the comments how you would have argued in my place. What would you have said?

Subscribe for more fearless conversations — and keep being a heretic.

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Chapters:

0:00 Clive Stafford-Smith Highlights

2:25 Death Row & Losing A Client

5:25 Joan of Arc - What She Actually Did

8:25 The Reason They Use An Electric Chair!

9:40 Head Caught Fire, Lights Dimmed

11:25 Clive Doesn’t Believe In Prisons!

14:25 P-Philes: What To Do With Them

16:55 Liz Truss vs Keir Starmer

18:45 Clive Was Beaten & Waterboarded At School

21:25 Socialism Debate & Karl Marx

24:55 Utopia

27:25 No True Scotsman - Communist

31:25 The Problem With Be Kind

33:25 Clive Feels He Failed His Father

35:25 The Case of the P-Phile Born That Way

38:25 Those Who Have Offended Should Go To Prison

40:55 Sex Offenders Have to Self-Report

42:55 Coalinga Psychiatric Hospital

45:25 What Trump Said About Charlie Kirk

47:25 What Would Your Last Meal Be?

50:10 Will Charlie Kirk’s Assassin Get Death?

51:25 Convincing an American Jury

56:25 The Dangerous Dopamine Rush

58:25 Clive Representing Muslims Who Try To Convert

1:01:25 What To Do With Religious Extremism

1:05:25 Anti-Semitic Islamists

1:07:25 Hamas vs Netanyahu

1:08:55 The Ultimate Hypocrisy

1:11:15 Jokes About Other People’s Cultures

1:14:10 Letterboxes

1:16:25 White Privilege Debate

1:18:25 Michael Moore

1:21:25 Why We Need Nationalism

1:25:55 A Heretic Clive Admires

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577. Human Rights Lawyer: Socialism, Marx & the Death Penalty