A (2:50)

That's fantastic. You're a good man. You move back there, take care of your family. Okay, everybody, listen up. We're talking to Mike Egy, one of the great engine builders in NASCAR history. His resume is a who's who started with Chad Little, went to Penske Racing, Evernham, Gillette, but I'm just going to say Ray Evernham, Richard Petty, you know, that's my introduction to the great Mike Eggie. Now I look at you and I listen to you. All the years that you were at Penske and building engines for my big brother, Rusty Wallace, I always thought that you were very intellectual, very smart, and obviously you have to be to build engines like you do. I studied up on you. You studied at San Bernardino Valley, you went to Eisenhower High. So it's fair to say you're a West coast guy.

B (3:51)

Yeah. And then out of high school and Valley College was a community college, I was fortunate enough to get hired into General Dynamics by none other than the great Jim Taylor. He was the announcer at Corona Raceway. And so I spent almost eight years there working as a manufacturing engineer without a college degree, mind you. But it just exposed me to all kinds of professionals and technology sitting in meetings. You know, you get to learn how to basically how to speak and how to conduct yourself. And then after getting kind of tired of working for somebody else, I had started building engines with the west coast engine builder named Doug Jones. He was building engines for people like Jim Thurkettle and Charlie Said and all the big west coast heroes. And Doug convinced me to sell off the race car I had at the time. And he says, go buy yourself an engine dyno, because he had one. And I was fascinated by the thing. So I sold off all the race car fabrication equipment and started building engines, 390 carbureted V8 engines. And had no idea really what I was doing. I knew how to build an engine, but I didn't know how to run a business doing it. And a couple of years later, phone rings. It's a guy named Kenny Bernstein. And he said, hey, oh wow, the cup cars are going to switch to 390 carburetors. And he'd been told by somebody that I. That was kind of my wheelhouse. And 30 days later I was living in Charlotte working on the Quaker State Buick. And the. My crew chief was none other than Larry McReynolds. And I just found myself kind of thrust in the middle of big time racing. And just a dream come True. Really? A script I don't think you could write for yourself, but yeah, then the rest is kind of history from there.

A (5:58)

We're talking to Mike Eggy, and Mike made news in my world on Facebook, and we're going to get to that in a minute. Mike gave his opinion on NASCAR's new talk. John Probst from NASCAR looks into the future for nascar. Let's just dumb it down and say that's his job. He looks into the future. And John Pro said in 2030, we're seriously consider running electric vehicles in the O'Reilly Auto Parts Series. Hang on, everybody. We're going to get there. We're going to talk about that, but I want to see what Mike's up to. Okay, listen, for everybody that is on Dirty Mo podcast right now. If you're on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show, you can clearly see he's got an awesome setup. Mike, that. That coffee mug right there. Oh, your logo here. You see, I got a Mobile one logo. Tell me about this.

B (6:55)

Okay, so first of all, my girlfriend, her name is Carla with a K. You know, we got to have our girl's first name start with a K. I know that's important to you. And so she's, I don't know, become this kind of crazy in love with NASCAR racing fan over the last, I don't know, couple of years we've been together. And, and so she's been watching all your podcasts and seeing the coffee cup thing. And so she came up with this idea. She says, you know, maybe I could start making coffee cups featuring retired NASCAR drivers.

A (7:31)

Oh, I like that.

B (7:32)

Well, you know, there's licensing things you got to do. And she says, well, you know, I. I'd have to pick somebody to start with. So, you know, she. She picked her.

A (7:43)

Oh, my God. Everybody, everybody. On Dirty Mo Media podcast, he removes one coffee mug that says your logo here, and the next one says, we love Herman. You tell your. Your girlfriend I love her, too.

B (7:57)

Okay? She. She's listening. She's sitting over here running the. The switcher and all. So. But yeah, this is her moment. I wanted her to have a little. Little fun with this. And so I told her how everybody calls you Herman. She asked me why, and I said, I know there's a story. I apologize. I don't remember exactly. But so this is what she came up with yesterday.

A (8:18)

What's her name?

B (8:19)

Her name is Karla with a K. K, A R, L, A. She's a big Kenny Wallace fan now. So, you know, add one more to the to the roster.

A (8:32)

Love you, Carla. You're fantastic. Oh, my God. I'm just thinking to myself how two brilliant minds. I mean, she's thinking, you know, you're. You're building engines and you're working at Honeywell. And I'm thinking, man, you're a br. And here she is. I bet you guys get a lot of things done because you, you're good thinkers.

B (8:53)

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

A (8:54)

Are you philosophers?

B (8:56)

Yeah. In all fairness, she's a Boeing airplane girl. She moved here three years ago to Sun City and she had a career not always working for Boeing, but at least working on. I think she was working on pilot and co pilot seats. If you ever have a question about how a pilot seat works on a commercial airliner, she's the, she's the go to person.

A (9:20)

Tell her to spread them out. I need some knee room.

B (9:25)

Exactly.

A (9:27)

Okay, everybody, we have a lot to get to. And I thought long and hard about how to do this, but I know people are hyperactive like me, even though they don't want to admit it. So let's celebrate your career a little bit later. Let's. Let's talk about why you are in the news. We are going to celebrate your career in a little bit. Okay, that's fine. I want to read this to everybody after John Probst of NASCAR said, looks like we're going to run electric vehicles in 2030, and that's only in four years. And I was shocked, as was everybody. And once everybody got over the initial shock, they've been reasoning. But let me read all of you, the man that you're looking and listening to, let me read his comment. In light of recent comments from NASCAR regarding an electric powered race car, here are a few things to consider. A 500 mile race utilizing a 750 horsepower, 559 kilowatt motor would require a battery that would be equivalent to 11.3 Tesla Model S batteries. A Tesla battery weighs approximately 1,200 pounds. Holy moly. I'm just breathing right there for a moment. Let me read that one more time. A Tesla Battery weighs approximately 1,200 pounds. Could the cruise change 11 to 12 batteries per event? I doubt it. A single battery would weigh around 13,200 pounds. 11.31, 200 pounds. I get it. Yeah. 1, 200 pounds times that many batteries. And your disclaimer was this. I'm not opposed to new technology. Actually, I love new gadgets. I'm just trying to put things into perspective. So before I ask you questions, talk. Talk to me, okay?

B (11:42)

Well, you know, I see everybody getting knotted up and I'm just a numbers person. I mean, most engine people are right. We live and die by the numbers, the horsepower, the math. And I'm like, you can barely take a Ford electric pickup truck and drive it from here to LA, which is about 300 miles without stopping halfway and charging the battery, you know, and that's 60 miles an hour down the road. Nowhere near 700 horsepower. 750, whatever they're running now. So it's kind of like, you know, just if people just kind of use their imagination a little bit, what would it look like now? I mean, if we want to run a 500 mile race at 55 miles an hour, you know, you might get a little further along, but you'd be there for, I don't know, what, 12 hours watching a race? So I'm not a naysayer. I'm not trying to thumb my nose down at the idea, but I just don't believe that the technology exists yet for a fully electric 500 mile race. And so, I don't know, I just felt compelled to throw my two cents in and see if we could get some, maybe some legitimate dialogue going. And here we are. Right. It caught your attention. And again, not trying to be a naysayer, but math is pretty straightforward and I just don't see how you're going to get there.

A (13:15)

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B (15:18)

Well, I mean, it would take a smaller battery. Right. And again, it gets to a function of how much power. Of course, how much power does it required or is required to achieve a certain speed for a certain time or distance. So, I mean, this is kind of where the hybrid thing comes in because now you got a gasoline powered engine being assisted by a battery powered engine. And when you let off the throttle, that eddy current is running into charging the batteries, if you will, kind of like a Prius does. But I don't see how you're going to sustain 200 mile an hour with the aerodynamic drag that these big cars have.

A (16:07)

Yeah.

B (16:07)

And run a 3 to 500 mile race with, you know, strictly electric.

A (16:14)

Okay, we're going to throw another curveball in here as you made your comment. I was on social media, I was at lunch and somebody said to me, hey, since. Since what? We're racing in NASCAR right now. You know, they're called the next gen in the cup series. You don't go and buy a Next gen. So in other words, we cannot go anywhere. Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, you don't go buy a Next gen. It doesn't even look like a passenger car. So somebody said to me, since what wins on Sunday no longer sells on Monday. And I simply said, it's car against car. It's automaker against automaker.

B (17:03)

Right.

A (17:03)

Okay. Okay. Now that I preface this, Dale Jr. To my surprise, all this happens on social media site X. Mike, I know I'm long winded. Please, I apologize. Okay. Dale Jr. Dale Jr. Says this. I don't buy into this entirely. He, he doesn't buy into, you know, to me saying cars, race cars. I said cars, race cars. Dale Jr says responds in length. And here we go. Dale Jr I don't buy into this entirely. Or at Least I've got some questions. The SUV dominates the market at nearly 60% market share, followed by the pickup sedans are third and have fallen from 50% to below 20% in the past decade. Why hasn't the cup series then morphed into SUVs? Okay, this is funny. In other words, why don't we race Suburbans and pickup trucks? Then Junior goes on and he ends like this. Decades ago, the cars more resembled the showroom model. We haven't had that since the 90s. How automakers value and utilize the racing injury has evolved and changed. What seems to matter now more than anything is eyeballs. And more and more are pointing towards O'Reilly series. And of course he puts stars because he's an O'Reilly owner. So my question to you is this. Are we going to have to race what people are driving?

B (18:52)

Man, I don't know. There's a, you know, big following for Indy cars and Formula 1 racing. Can't go to the dealership and buy a Formula one car or one that looks like it. I think. I think for racing to continue in the future, it's not going to be as important as to what brand is. I mean, look at yesterday's race. I mean, I was jumping up and down car, right?

A (19:24)

I mean, everybody telladega and it's, it's,

B (19:28)

you know, NASCAR talks about their racing being a product. I remember the first time I heard that, I was offended. Right. I'm not making cans of soup. What are you talking about?

A (19:38)

The race team is a business. Yeah. Or the company. I'm. I can't stand it when Jeff Gordon goes, well, it's good for the company. I'm like, yes. Stop it, Jeff.

B (19:47)

Right. So I personally, I mean, I'm going to. I got to be careful here because I'm such a big Dodge and Mopar fan. Have been my whole life. Our first race car in the garage in 1966 was a 55 Plymouth. So I was just what I grew up working on. So, yeah. Am I happy to see Dodge come back in the pickup truck, Craftsman truck series? Yes and no. I'm a little peeved that they're running a Chevrolet engine and a Dodge truck. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't go out and buy a Dodge truck and put a Chevrolet engine in it. But, you know, the people sitting in the stands, do they even realize what engines in the car or. Or in this case, the. The truck. So if you're putting on a good show, cars are, you know, things are safe and, and it's an exciting event then. I mean, I think the race fans will come to the racetrack on, on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

A (20:52)

Okay, I love this. You set me up, and you don't even know it. I was over in Europe. I spent 16 days over there, and I went through the Mercedes Benz and I went through Porsche. I went through their museums in Stuttgart, Germany. To my shock and amazement, Porsche was built a Formula one motor for Mercedes Benz. Okay? They had a Porsche. Porsche helped them, and they're, they're in the same town. So one thing that I learned during all this is that, you know, we talk about how NASCAR has to race, what people are driving on the streets. And now listen, you and I are philosophers. We're just discussing, okay, like we're at a bar right now, right? It, this is not true. And here's why. Formula one races Formula one cars. They don't. They don't drive formula ones on the streets. So to me, it's Mercedes versus Ferrari versus, you know, just speak to that. I mean, people just like their brand.

B (22:00)

So, I mean, let's look at the current cup car. Other than the, for the manufacturers, other than an involvement in the engine under the hood. I mean, what other part? The radiator cap, the lug nuts?

A (22:17)

They're neutral.

B (22:18)

They're, they're. I, I, I'll get myself in trouble here a little bit. I've been equating to what's happening in motorsports to what I call Tony cart racing. Because I saw this out at the little Mooresville Motorplex, whatever it's called, Little go kart track. Wonderful facility. And I went there for a big event, and here comes this big trailer. It was the Tony cart trailer. And you see these dads walking up to the trailer. Oh, I want a cart for my kid. Well, they take a frame off of the rack, all the pieces, and they bolt it together right there in front of you, and they put a Tony Cart driver in the go kart, and they send it out and bust laps. And here's the timesheet. They wheel it back in front of the dad. The dad writes the check, strokes the credit card. Now his little kid gets in, and what do we have? We have parody, because that is a Tony cart. It's the same cart everybody else has. So I think there is a place for that kind of racing. But. And again, I'm not trying to diss nascar. I mean, it's, I'm insanely loyal to the sport and to the sanctioning body. But as Robert Yates used to say, and by the way, when you talked about my career, I spent two super wonderful years working for Robert and Doug Yates running the engine shop. It was two best years of my life. And Robert used to talk to me all the time about the cup series. I still call it the Busch series. Sorry, I can't.

A (23:55)

It's okay.

B (23:56)

Habit. And the truck series, and he said all the manufacturers would sit together in the room and they would say, we don't care what you do with the Friday engines. We don't care what you do with the Saturday engines. Don't mess with our Sunday engines. And that's why when I start seeing all this electric stuff and all this other. I mean, I don't think NASCAR can survive or the teams can survive without the manufacturers and helping. It's just an opinion. I'm not a financial analyst or whatever, but I think some recent things that have gone on, some revelations that have come about, about the money in the sport and who's losing what, and to me, it's kind of fragile. Right. It's like we gotta really protect what we have and we gotta really be thinking clearly moving forward. If we case off the manufacturers, we're done. We got a bunch of empty grandstands and we got a bunch of empty racetracks. So, I mean, hey, there's a manufacturer coming back. And I can't say too much. I'm trying to warm my way into a relationship because somebody needs to build their engines. But, okay, as you think about it and try to put a proposal together, are we building Saturday engines or are those going to be an electric. You know, go to Granger and buy some kind of electric motor and put in the car or something? I, I don't understand.

A (25:27)

Yeah, yeah.

B (25:28)

I don't understand some of what's going.

A (25:30)

Well, let's, Let, Let's. Let's fantasize. What would racing look like without automakers? I mean, because, I mean, you know, all over America stands go crazy over their automaker. They say, I'm a Chevrolet person, I'm a Ford person, and everybody loves Dodges. I, I don't understand how Dodge. I mean, I never realized how many Dodge and Ram type people there were out there. I would. So can NASCAR. I mean, the. Maybe. I mean, we're talking $500 million, the money that would be lost if we can we get rid of automakers. Is that possible?

B (26:15)

No, I don't see how. Because they are providing help, you know, with wind tunnel and, and certainly the, the power plant side of it. But,

A (26:26)

I mean, all the pickup trucks like, you know Toyota, the official pickup truck of nascar? They're the ones with the Toyota Tundra. That's the one with the jet dryers on the back. Yeah, they're going around. I mean, Toyota literally gives NASCAR millions and millions of dollars, if anything, free trucks to hook the jet drivers to the back. So I don't even see. Forget about the teams. Think about how much money NASCAR would lose if they said, forget about the automakers.

B (26:54)

Right, Exactly. So other than the engines, what identity in the actual race car on Sunday does the manufacturer have anything to do with? And it. And it's like, I don't know. That's just something I think we need to really protect and we really need to think about from a business standpoint.

A (27:20)

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B (27:30)

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A (27:33)

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B (28:03)

The old protect the young, and the young protect the old. This is the way.

A (28:10)

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B (28:10)

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A (28:12)

The Mandalorian and Grogu, rated PG 13, may be inappropriate for children under 13. In theaters May 22nd. Get tickets now. I like how careful you are with your words because you're in the industry of NASCAR somewhat. Because people reach out to you. Mike, I'm gonna brag on you. People reach out to Mike Eggy because he's a brilliant mind. He's smart. With that being said, while I was over in Europe, I kind of poked him a little bit. I said, y' all are so green over here. You know, I go to stir my coffee cup over there, and the straw melted, and it kind of pissed me off. I'm like, would you guys calm your green down? You know, a wooden spoon for ice cream. And then you taste the wood. You know, it's like, what's going on? So I asked. I was at Nurburgring running six laps, and I asked a very wealthy gentleman that had a beautiful Museum over there, point blank, very nicely. I said, is the government on Mercedes Benz? And Ferraris asked, be all green. Does the government do that? He goes, no, that. See automakers, Kenny, you got to remember Mercedes Benz is racing a Formula one car. You know, Ferrari is racing a car. I forget that these are cars. It, it is the brand Ferrari or Mercedes Benz. So these companies, I guess in a strange way over here in America are saying, hey, nascar, we want a damn electric vehicle. You think that's what's up?

B (29:55)

I don't know. I mean, it doesn't make sense because I've seen and I watch this very closely, this electric vehicle craze, I believe it's waning. I mean, you've got manufacturers that have abandoned their all electric assembly line and they're switching back to gas powered vehicles because that's what the consumers want. I have friends that have these electric cars and you ought to see what they go through to just a plan, a long distance trip. You got to factor in how many hours you're going to sit at a charging station and you can't really calculate how long the line's going to be when you get to the charging station. You might wait two or three hours to get plugged in and then two or three hours to charge a battery. I don't believe the technology is where it will be someday. There's no doubt it's coming. We are going to run out of fossil fuel as a planet someday. Okay. And I read the other day something about a hydrogen powered engine and. Oh, okay. I mean, I just don't think we're there yet. So when you start making these announcements that create this frenzy, it's a negative conversation that I don't think anybody's really ready to have. Well, let's, let's get back to putting on a Good show. What NASCAR's done in the safety side of things is just awesome. Amazing, right? I mean, come on. You and I have witnessed some pretty horrible things in the last 25, 30 years, right? And things we just don't want to ever see again. But to try to turn the industry on its ear by. I mean, let's talk about our great friend Mike Harmon. What kind of electric car can he can afford? Right?

A (31:50)

That's where I was going next. But keep going.

B (31:52)

No, I mean, it's like you just got to kind of dumb it down sometimes. You got to. I mean.

A (31:58)

Okay, stop right there. Okay, let's serve this up, everybody. This is not philosophy. This is what we call critical thinking. Okay. I was shocked When John Probes come out and said in 2030, that's, that's less than four years from now because we're, we're a quarter weight through 20, 26. So little over three years from now where, you know, the Oraley Auto parts series is, is a series that you're supposed to be able to run on $6 million a year. And listen, I was invol. There it is right there. I've got the most starts right now. I'm the king of the orad auto. I'm the mayor. I've got the most starts 547. Okay? So since I know everything about that series ran the most races, we, we are, we're not considered nascar, Mike. You know, people off the streets, they, there's the old logo bush. They'd say, oh, you're on that little bush car. It's, it's the dumber series. It's the brothers series.

B (33:06)

Okay. Yeah. I call it the college football. It is, it's college football. It's entry level on tv. I always, when we race with Cat, I always felt like we were playing college football and the fans were full, the stands were full of fans, everybody having a good time. But there was their hometown drivers, the people they could relate to more than the upper echelon cup guys.

A (33:35)

Okay, so with all this, once again, we're having fun here. Where is the money going to come from? Okay, you're, we're going to tell all the O'Reilly teams, throw that car away and I guess you'll sell it to arca. There's my answer. Sell these cars to arca. Where is the money going to come from for these? You know, Jeremy Clements, Mike Harmon. I, I'm just, I'm being a little mean here. I guess Dale Jr. Dale Jr. Already come out and said, I don't want anything to do with it. He said, I'm out. He already said that. What is your thought? Where's the money going to come from to build a whole new car?

B (34:21)

My first comment the day this all the story broke, I turned and looked at Carl. I said, where's the money coming from? I mean, come on, Kenny, you've got your own race car in the garage.

A (34:32)

Yeah, right.

B (34:33)

Your racing organization calls you and says, the car you have right now is 100% junk. Next year we're going to run X. Where's the money come from? I mean, what's the impetus to go build the new car and the new program and then three years later they do it again? The bottom line is all of motorsports is in kind of this fragile state. Racetracks and the small Saturday night level are drying up, and young people aren't following the motorsports, working on cars in the garage with their dad like I did. So you got to focus on the entertainment side of it, in my opinion. And that's kind of what I saw. That's what I've been seeing here the last few weeks with this Cletus guy in yesterday's Carson Hoseberg. Sorry, I drew a blank, but it's a tough name. I mean, who is this guy hanging out of the car, driving down the front straightaway? And he admitted that he'd planned that he had. He had envisioned doing that. He's putting on a show, right? Alan Kalitz did it with a Polish victory lap. You know,

A (35:57)

I just got off. I just got off the phone with Don Perdom. The Snake and myself are very good friends. I'm not bragging. I'm just saying.

B (36:06)

I remember Don Karen.

A (36:08)

Yeah. He loves Rusty and Chip Ganassi and, you know, the late, great Walker Evans, that whole group there, you know. So the Snake calls me about an hour before we get on there, and he goes, man, he goes, tell me about this Cletus McFarland. And I'm going to tell you what I told him. I said. I said, you know, Snake, you're great. Rusty was great. Roger Penske, very mature. Chip Ganassi, very mature. I said, great people tend to criticize people that are having fun. I said, what's missing here is this Cletus McFarlane. His real name is Garrett Mitchell.

B (36:48)

Oh, okay.

A (36:50)

He plays around with drag cars. Mm. He's a brilliant mind. He flies a helicopter. He flies a jet. The guy has opened up the new world that the Penske and the Ganassi and. And the Snake loved it. I said, this guy is as smart as you, Don, or smart as Penske. And I said, exactly. What you just said is the reason I'm telling this story. The days of NASCAR cars going in circles, I mean, that's all we got. The fans want to be entertained, Mike.

B (37:25)

Yes. Yes. I mean, that's what kind of where I'm going. I remember in 95, we won the first two races with Chad Little. Went to Atlanta, had a real problem. I was sick and sent somebody. We got to Richmond, and I won't name the official's name, but the. An official walked up to me with his finger in my face, and he said, we're in show business. Boy, you talk about making me mad. I was, like, flipped out. We're in show business and you're stinging up the show, you're not going to win. He says, we can't put on a show if the same guy wins every single week. And I'm like, what are you talking about? We're not in show business. It took me a long time. It really did. It took me a long time to realize because to me, it's a technical competition. I got to build the best car. I got to go outrun Kenny Wallace and Mark Martin. I loved racing with Mark Martin and the bush series. I mean, that was just. That was. We were chasing the rabbit, right? But now I realize we're competing with every form of entertainment in the world, whether it's people spending their money to go on a cruise, whether they're going to go to. To Disneyland or are we going to spend the money and go to Talladega. So to me, it's about putting on a good, safe show and give the fans their money's worth. I mean, okay, I can do without the burnout, but that's just the engine builder in me. But the fans seem to like it. Every time there's a burnout, I cringe. And I want to cuss on Hornaday Jr. Because he started all that in the truck series. But at the end of the day, we need the manufacturers to help them sell their product, but we also need the people sitting in the stands. I mean, Bristol broke my heart. I remember winning the night race with your brother. 1996, 160,000 people cheering and wanting to rip the fences down to get to Rusty when the race was over. No better feeling. And all of that just seems like it's gone.

A (39:46)

It is gone. Yeah.

B (39:49)

I do want to mention the trouble that you got me in at Bristol in 1997. I don't think I ever told you this story. You were out practicing and your engine was sputtering. And I went to rusty. I would have never done this without going to rusty. And I said, hey, Kenny's car's not running very good. You want me to go look at it? And he said, yeah. And I did. I don't remember who your engine guy was, but took the carburetor off, took it apart. There was a bent up float. We fixed it and you went out and sat on the pole. Quick time, here came Rusty. I didn't mind you helping him, but I didn't expect you to put him on the pole. He talked to me for two weeks after that and I'm like, it's your brother. What are you Talking about. But hey, it was fun.

A (40:37)

Well, you know, listen, this story. First of all, thank you for doing that. I'm trying. The whole time my brain was wondering what team was that. It could have been the Dirt Devil team chevrolet, maybe the 81. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. It could have been. Yep. That was. That was a cup card. Oh, yeah. That's when I was driving for Fillmore Racing. Yes. It was the fall and that was. I got the cup pole in the cup series.

B (41:04)

Yeah, yeah. I got in trouble. I had to remember the year Robin Pemberton was mad. Jeffrey Thousand thought it was cool.

A (41:14)

Yes. Yeah, she had some power. Maybe he had some power. I got loose off of turn two and stayed with it and it was great.

B (41:22)

But hey, I figured longer Wallace is on a pole. I mean, Rusty should be happy.

A (41:26)

You just brought up a good memory. I forgot about the. Yeah, I had about three polls in the cup series and that was one of them. Martinsville was another one. Rockingham in the Pennzoil car. Out on the road, it helps to have a partner like the Love's Rewards app. Download Love's Rewards and get great deals like a free loves coffee or fountain drink. Just buy any four, any size and get the fifth one free. Love's Rewards. Save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. See website for details. At DSW we ask the important questions like what shoes are you going to wear? Whether you're prepping for wedding season, festival season or just planning the ultimate vacay.

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A (42:28)

Okay, let's stay on on course here. Why are all racing series dumbing horsepower down? We see it in formula one. Half battery, half engine. We see it in nascar. We don't have. I mean we could easily have a thousand horsepower. Why is this, Mike? Why is all auto racing? I mean, maybe not all, but you know what I mean. The big time, the big time, Formula one and nascar, they're dumbing engines down. Horsepower. Why is this?

B (43:02)

I think it's mostly durability. I mean, yeah, you can build a thousand horsepower, naturally aspirated push rod V8 engine, but remember back in the day we were turning 10,000rpm. That was a big thing in the early 2000s and Ilmore was a big part of that and Joe Hornick was a big part of that. And it gets expensive. I remember Robert Yates again. Robert came to me and he says, we're going to implement a gear rule. I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, we're going to. He worked behind the scenes with NASCAR to implement the gear rule to try to tone down the rpm. I said, well, why do we want to do that? Of course, again, I'm a gearhead, right?

A (43:45)

You're a dollar.

B (43:46)

I'm going to spend a dollar and a quarter. And Robert was like, we're going to put ourselves out of business. It's getting too expensive. And it was. I mean, it was several million dollars per year per car for an engine program. I don't know what it is today, but I know in 2002, it was $3 million per team for an engine program.

A (44:13)

Were you.

B (44:14)

Where would it be today if. If we were, what, turning 12,000 rpm?

A (44:21)

I think that's what put Barney Visser from Furniture Row finally put him out of business. He won the championship with help from Joe Gibbs. In other words, Barney Visser, Fern Turreau. They were paying Joe Gibbs millions of dollars, which was fair. But then Coach said, okay, gonna be $2 million more. And then Barty said, look, I got our championship. We're out.

B (44:48)

Right.

A (44:48)

So very wealthy man like you couldn't buy this guy out. I. I started his cup team, and the first thing I said to Joe Garon, I said, you're going to keep the team in Denver, Colorado.

B (45:00)

Yeah, I remember all that.

A (45:01)

You spend 2 million more years, shuttle and stuff back and forth. Don't matter. Well, he finally got broke out.

B (45:09)

Yeah, but there's. I mean, I don't know if these numbers are true, but I was told many, many years ago that the Formula One people spend $100 million a year on their engine program, between the development and all the custom pieces and. In fact, I just watched a video the other day, like I like to do on YouTube. I'm kind of a fanatic, or addict, I guess you call it, of a. I think it was like 20,000 rpm. It was shifting on a dyno. I think I watched that like 35 times. It was like, you got.

A (45:44)

They love that sound, buddy.

B (45:45)

Yeah, but it's like, who's paying for it? Where does this money come from? Right? It just. I mean, come on. Right? It's kind of like flying to the moon. Okay. You spend money to go to the moon. But there would be some breaking point, I would think, where you say it's just too expensive to go. And that's why I think that they have the rules that they do. A, they can't let the cars get too fast. The Lloyd's of London isn't going to insure us if our cars are landing in the grandstands. But most importantly, I mean, they're trying to save us from ourselves when it comes to overspending on these engines. Yeah, that's just my two cents.

A (46:28)

Man, I got so many questions. So if we're dumbing horsepower down. Okay, let me ask you this, and please forgive me. I apologize right away. Were you at Penske Racing with Rusty when they had 10 poles and they tore the motor down at Sonoma?

B (46:52)

Okay, okay. So go ahead. Well, that was after me. And after I left, Roger Penske called and said, okay, what do I do? I was very flattered by this, and I said, call, hire Larry Wallace. See, I always wanted to involve Ilmore, and there was a particular person at Penske Racing that wouldn't let me do that. I'll leave a name out, but I wanted Elmore. Right. I used to take motorcycle engines apart to see how they were built. That's how I came up with the piston that we ran in Rusty's restrictor plate engines in 86, 97. I just copied what motorcycles had. They're way ahead. Right. I mean, in my mind at the time. So when they got the Penske engine shop going in Concord, Harrisburg, wherever it was at, first thing it is, it got Elmore involved. And here came elmore with this 380 gram piston and all this crazy by our standards right at the time stuff. And there was no stopping Rusty Wallace.

A (47:57)

Of course, rusty 10 poles that year.

B (47:58)

Yeah. And Rusty would run around, and you know, your brother, he'd run around. Oh, it's all this ill more power. We got a million horsepower. I remember him saying that.

A (48:07)

And everybody turning 10,000 RPMs. I think that motor was.

B (48:11)

Yes. So then again, I'm trying to be political here. But then there was a move to tear one of the Penske engines down at the racetrack, one of the qualifying engines. And I know of a very, very famous car owner who had hired a dozen photographers to be standing around strategically taking pictures. I've seen some of the photos of all these parts and pieces, and it set the industry on its ear. I mean, it's itty bitty, tiniest little piston you've ever seen in your life, and it was not made of aluminum. That's why now in the rule book, you'll see something, some reference about pistons. Must be made of aluminum. The Pistons were $1,000 apiece.

A (48:56)

Jeez, that's awesome.

B (48:59)

$8,000, right?

A (49:01)

Yeah.

B (49:02)

I'm not making this up. That's what, that's what it turned into. And then that's when NASCAR really got serious about. Okay, wait a minute. You know, we got, we need, you know, minimum weights on, on connecting rods and minimum weights on a wrist pin and a piston, and the pistons got to be made of aluminum. But no, that was after me and that all that credit goes to Elmore and certainly Larry's guys for, you know, getting it all put together.

A (49:32)

But, but you just drew a great reminder to what we're talking about. You know, when I was a kid, you know, we go to the speed shop down here in St. Louis, Weiss speed Shop, and there's a little sign there. Speed costs how fast you want to go. Right?

B (49:51)

That legendary saying, how fast you want to go. Yep.

A (49:56)

Mike, listen, we're going to keep going here a little bit, but we, we can go on and on and on. But it's time to talk about you a little bit. I want to thank you, my guy. We're talking, having fun, and we're coming up on an hour. That was insane. We have more questions. We can keep going, but, you know, you, you gotta have perspective now. So right now we're going to switch subjects. We're going to go to Mike Eggy.

B (50:25)

Okay.

A (50:26)

We've been talking about the EV car. We have questions. The same thing the fans have since you've been out in Arizona and you've been looking at the sport that you love and you're taking care of your family and, and you mentioned it. There's no doubt in my mind. The sport has fallen some 70%. Like, if you have a hundred, if you have a hundred percent, the sport has fallen 70%. It's sad to say, but the, the TV money is saving the sport. If, if we had to have the money from the grandstands, we would be in trouble. What do you think of NASCAR right now? Do your best to give me your, you're, you know, just a couple minutes. Your totality of what, what you see and what you like and what you don't like.

B (51:14)

Hmm. Boy, that's a tough one.

A (51:17)

Do you watch it still?

B (51:19)

I, I gotta be honest with you. I went probably 10 years. I, I couldn't watch it because you

A (51:25)

love it so much.

B (51:26)

I, I, it, it hurt. Okay. I mean, I had a great time back there. And then, you know, I mean, sometimes you just end up on the wrong path, and it's hard to put the right deal together, get in with the right team. In 2001, Robert Yates walked up and handed me the keys to an 80,000 square foot building. It's in Mooresville. He said, turn it into an engine manufacturing facility. That's really my background. And I did. I was very involved in the creation, if you will, of what's now Roush Yates engine shop. And Robert had hired an architect by the name of Bob Yates. No relationship, but the whole time I was working on that building and then later mine, I realized that if we're not careful, we're going to have our little cookie cutter. I call it a sock factory, right? You're going to have these people working in an engine shop. And I don't mean to diss anybody. I love the people I know that are in the business. But give you an example. When I worked at Penske's, we had 60 engines in the hallway. There was no two of them alike. You had a Bristol engine. You had road course engines. You had different cams, different heads, different manifolds. Right. For different tracks. Well, now all the engines are the same. And I remember saying to Robert, I don't want to work in a factory. As I saw racing moving that direction in like 2008 or 9, I got a call from Hendrick. They were very nice. They were offering me a job going on the road supervising the tuners. And the comment was, there'll be no role for you in the engine shop, like during the week, but we'll pay you like you're working 40 hours a week. I couldn't bring myself to do it right. I just, you know, once you've been in that involved, it just didn't make sense for me to try to do that. So to answer your question, when I came here, I had to kind of force myself to just cherish the memories. I mean, I knew Dale Earnhardt very, very well. Used to go to lunch with Robert Yates sometimes two, three, four times a week. We'd go to the Golden Corral in Mooresville.

A (53:52)

I know, just a bunch of smart rednecks, right?

B (53:56)

He treated me like a son. I mean, it. And so when that waned and it changed and it went away, I mean, I don't want to say you can't go back. I guess you can. But, you know, what do they show all the time on tv, right? The replay of. Of Cale Yarborough and Donnie Allison fighting in the infield in 1979. That's the NASCAR. I remember.

A (54:23)

I want to comment on that. I. I gotta interrupt you. That bothers me, too. Do you know you've noticed that they won't show highlights of what happened 10 years ago? It's always highlights of Earnhardt. It's always highlights of the glory days.

B (54:39)

Do you.

A (54:41)

I guess that's strategy because they know people like the glory days so much that it's like. It's kind of like they, on purpose, don't talk about the, you know, Kevin Harvick, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch. It's like.

B (54:59)

It's like that era didn't exist or something.

A (55:01)

Yes, yes.

B (55:02)

Weird, great competitors, right? Tony Stewart was fun to watch because, you know.

A (55:09)

Yeah.

B (55:09)

He'd speak his mind and.

A (55:11)

And whatever, but he went to NHRA and he left NASCAR and he talked about him. So.

B (55:15)

Yeah. And he called him taxi cabs. That he called him. Oh, I'm driving the taxi cab. But it's just. Yeah, it's just. So mostly because of Carla, I've started paying attention again. And I'm kind of glad. I am, because it's. Of course, I kind of dying to see one of these cup cars up close. I like the little Larry McMurdle cutaway thing because it's like, what in the world. Because underneath the shell, right. Is something I would have never imagined could have been a race car.

A (55:47)

Yeah.

B (55:48)

Transaxle in the back and independent rear spanks, all that stuff. But, you know, I love what they've done with the safety and the innovation. But, yeah, to walk up and look at it and see a torsion bar and a leaf spring, you know, something that you're familiar with, you know, those days are long gone, and so we just have to accept it. And I mean, hey, modern airplanes don't look like they did in, you know, 1950 either. So, I mean, technology evolves and we gotta. We gotta deal with it.

A (56:22)

Hey, you know, one thing that blows my mind. This is totally off subject, you being engineering minded and me being a thinker, you know, like a gas pedal. Like, here's a gas pedal and I. I want a rod. I want a rod going to the carburetor or whatever you want to call it. Nowadays. They got sensors and it blows my damn mind.

B (56:42)

Yeah. I remember the first time I heard the term fly by wire. What? Oh, yeah, a wire between your gas pedal and your throat throttle body. I'm like. Like you said, where's my return spring? I want to. Right.

A (57:01)

It's like my cable. Cable, yeah.

B (57:05)

Remember the gas pedal that had the little tow hook so you could pull it if you got.

A (57:09)

Yeah, I still have that. I still have that in my dirt car, but, yeah. Oh, Mike, we can go on. But listen, there he is, everybody. Mike Egy out in Arizona, working in Honeywell. Want to thank Carla for loving you and making you love NASCAR again. Thank you, Carla.

B (57:34)

Yeah, Carla, go and throw up the rusty picture. Got to give her a moment. You'll see it here. There you go.

A (57:40)

Oh, my God. Look at that.

B (57:42)

Yeah. Richmond, Virginia, March of 97. And, yeah, we just won. That was the first race, according to the competition cam people that won with. In a cup car with a really, really high ratio rocker arm to try to emulate a roller camshaft.

A (58:01)

You are such a badass.

B (58:02)

So I was all excited, but I just wanted to show you that picture.

A (58:06)

Okay, but let me say this. I'm upset that I didn't talk to you a little more in depth about your abilities there. I would have had, you know, my Charlie Marlowe, he'll. He'll edit this if he needs to, and he'll dump some pictures in there. So my own Charlie Marlowe got a little competition. Carla.

B (58:24)

There you go.

A (58:25)

You are a badass. That was wonderful.

B (58:27)

Where's the cat picture? Give her a moment here. There's the cat.

A (58:30)

Look at this.

B (58:31)

Look at that.

A (58:32)

I love it.

B (58:34)

Yeah, this is our little home studio. It's in. In her. I guess you call it sun room or whatever, but. Yeah.

A (58:42)

Carla, what else you got? You got any.

B (58:44)

That's the only two that she can.

A (58:45)

Okay, well, good job in there. Yeah. This is absolutely fantastic.

B (58:51)

But we got our coffee cup thing going. Here we are, you know, in honor of. Of. Of great Herman. Great Kenny Wallace.

A (58:59)

Well, I love you, Mike. And listen, I know you're out there, and I can relate. I moved back. I moved back to St. Louis just because, you know, I was down there in Charlotte. And some people said, why'd you move to St. Louis? I said, couldn't get away from it. I said I. I'd go to lunch at McAllister's at Speedway Boulevard. And what happened, Herman? I'm like, what do you mean? Well, you run 15th. I'm like, I got beat, okay? I was pushing. My car was. But it just like, man, there comes a time you just got to clear. Clear your head. And I came back to St. Louis, and I was a little bitter just because I didn't get what I wanted. I wanted to be Jeff Gordon, dammit. And. But they're all my friends, and I'm so happy and. Okay, so let's end like this.

B (59:52)

Okay.

A (59:53)

What do you see in your future?

B (59:58)

In my future?

A (59:59)

Yeah. What are you going to do next? You're going to keep working in Honeywell? I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure it's great money, 401k, the damn insurance. You got it all. You got it all.

B (60:09)

See, my problem is I don't see myself retiring good. Earlier and I got to be really kind of careful here because I don't know how far along things are. I am going to make a trip back to Charlotte probably next week.

A (60:21)

Good.

B (60:22)

Have a conversation or two. I've never wanted to quit racing. I'm just a really, really, really poor loser. Right.

A (60:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (60:33)

I, I, I don't like running 20th. I don't like running 30th. I'm not saying I gotta win every race. There's no such.

A (60:42)

You're a competitor, man.

B (60:43)

I remember. You know, I've, I've lost more races than I've won and, oh yeah, and all that. But I'm like, eh, you know, I just want to be in a position to win. So I'm, I'm working on a little something. I, we'll see what happens.

A (60:59)

Well, I'm going to wish you the best of luck. And, and, and you know, this reminds me of the baseball player. He gets, he gets thrown 10 pitches and hits three of them and he's in the hall of Fame.

B (61:12)

Right, right.

A (61:13)

You know. 300 hitter over a course of a career. Competition will kill you. It's, it's everybody competing. I, I'm the greatest.

B (61:26)

Find a balance.

A (61:27)

I love your spirit, my friend. All right everybody. There he is, Mike Eggy. And he's going to make a trip down to NASCAR Atlanta. Hope to see more of you. I think the, I think the sport of NASCAR needs you that can use you. You're a brilliant mind and thank you for that incredible post. Check him out. Everybody just simply go to Facebook and it's, it's Eggy. Mike Eggy. E G, E1G.

B (61:54)

Yep. And you can sell it forward and backwards.

A (62:00)

I love that.

B (62:02)

Yeah.

A (62:02)

All right, everybody. Remember now, Kenny conversation can be seen and listened in two places. We say this at the end of every Kenny conversation. You can see Mike Eggy's pretty face right here on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show. But if you're headed to Phoenix and you're going to Red Rocks and you want to see it all, you want to listen, you go to Dirty Mo Media podcast. We are on Dale Jr's podcast over there. So I think that's about it. Mike, you got anything else to say?

B (62:37)

No, I just want to say thank you for calling me the other day and inviting me to the show. It's a real honor and always been a big Kenny Wallace fan and will continue to be so off into the future.

A (62:51)

I think we'll come. We'll come to you again. I think you're going to be our engineering guru. Okay, I'm gonna talk.

B (62:58)

I've got all this set up. I'm available anytime.

A (63:01)

Yeah, I think, you know, me and Charlie, I think we're gonna. I think that's what we'll do. If you'll have. If you'll have us.

B (63:06)

Yeah. Be fun.

A (63:08)

Okay, everybody. There he is. Mike Eggy. And until the next any conversation, everyone. We'll see you all next time. Goodbye.

B (63:18)

All right, see ya.

A (63:26)

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, Tick Tock and Instagram. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

B (63:43)

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

A (63:46)

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, get a quote@libertymutual.com or with your local agent. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.

B (64:00)

Liberty.

A (64:01)

Out on the road, it helps to have a partner like the Love's Rewards app. Download Love's Rewards and get great deals like a free Loves coffee or fountain Dr. Drink. Just buy any four, any size and get the fifth one free. Love's Rewards. Save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. See website for details.