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A More Mature Kyle Busch?! “Rowdy” Talks Family, Racing Roots, & His NASCAR Legacy
00:58:09
Once the most hated man in NASCAR, Kyle Busch joins Kenny Conversations to discuss how he’s matured after marriage & fatherhood
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- [00:00]
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- [00:29]
Kyle Busch
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- [01:01]
Kenny Wallace
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything to fix your hot rod up or your everyday vehicle. Well, you are looking at one of the greatest NASCAR drivers of all time, Kyle Busch. How are you doing, my friend?
- [01:27]
Kyle Busch
All right, Mr. Kenny. What's going on, man? How are you?
- [01:30]
Kenny Wallace
Well, I'm doing really good. I am so honored. I'm happy that you are finally on Kenny Conversation. You, you were a hard one to get. You are a busy man.
- [01:42]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I say I'm busy. I might not be that busy, but that's my excuse anyway. So, you know, it's, it's, it's been a little bit trying to get on here, trying to find some time, but glad we were able to fit it in and, and looking forward to it, so to speak with you again.
- [01:56]
Kenny Wallace
Thank you. I think a lot of you. I feel like I know you a little bit. When I worked for Fox, you know, I would interview you. You and I would say a couple words to each other. I want to start out like this because I think it's most important. I want to do something with you that I, I didn't do to Tony Stewart or Harvick or any of the other drivers. You are, you are another, another level up. You are great. So I want to put my 200 bifocals on and I'm going to, I'm going to Tell you the stats about yourself. And then when I'm done, I want you to comment. But this will be the first time we do it. At the start of the show, It. It goes underneath the rusty wall of steel. We're going to remind everybody how great you are.
- [02:47]
Kyle Busch
Okay.
- [02:47]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, here we go. First of all, you've done so much that you roll right off the Wikipedia page.
- [02:55]
Kyle Busch
You gotta scroll a few times, right?
- [02:57]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. Yeah. That's when you know somebody's good, is when you roll off the page. So here we go, buddy. 1152 NASCAR starts in all three divisions. Now, feel free to correct me if something's wrong. 2009 Xfinity Series champion. Two time NASCAR cup champion. 2015, 20, 1963 NASCAR cup wins. Now we're going to get into rare air. We're gonna get. We're gonna get into things that nobody has ever done. You are numero uno. You are a trailblazer. All time wins, leader in the xfinity series at 102 wins. Never will be beat. Ever. All time wins. Leader in the truck series at 65 wins. For a limited schedule that will never be beat. Limited schedule is key. You hardly run that series, but all you do is win. This one's awesome. First driver ever to win on every track in the cup series. Unbelievable. First driver to win in all three divisions on a weekend. Did you do that at Bristol?
- [04:22]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, Bristol. Twice, actually.
- [04:24]
Kenny Wallace
Holy moly. Won a race every year for 19 straight years. Now, listen, there's way more, and we all know that, but those are the granddaddy of them all. Now, when I say all that, and I asked the greats the same thing. I know your mind. I mean, you. You've won so much. Tell me what goes through your mind when I take you back through your accomplishments.
- [04:54]
Kyle Busch
I mean, just how grateful I am and how appreciative I am of the opportunity to be in nascar, to be able to have achieved all of that, and. And thankful to those that have helped me along the way. There's been a lot of great people that I've been associated with and been able to work with, but then also the Kyle demeanor, the Bush demeanor, whatever it might be, looks at all of that and says, damn, how good could it have been if I didn't have 60 second place finishes in the Cup Series, you know what I mean? And. And I think my. My running average right now. I ruined it at Vegas a. A few weeks back in the trucks, but I think I had finished first, second, or third in the last 15 or 16 races in a row before finishing. I think we had a pit road penalty, so I had to come back down in Vegas, so we finished 16th. But anyways, just stuff like that, you know what I mean? Like, there's. There's plenty of other accolades, as you mentioned, that, you know, you could go on and on and on with, but it's the ones that get away, I think, that kind of hurts the most because I know how much greater those numbers could sound or those numbers could be if. If it wasn't for small little details in those races that just didn't go my way.
- [06:01]
Kenny Wallace
And I believe that's what makes you so great, is, you know, you always know you could be better. I want to go to something that you might not remember, but I remember it clear as day. It was a late night at Bristol, and you and I were in the RV lot, and I was waiting for my daughter Brooke to drive up from North Carolina. I was going to meet my daughter at the gate so she could get in and come in the rv. And you. You and I carried on just a nice, pleasant conversation. The conversation went like this. When you win a cup race, like, five hours later, you're over it and you're off your high and. And you're on to the next thing. Is that true? I mean, I know you said that to me. Who are you better at that? Are you soaking in the winds a little bit more, or. Or is that a curse?
- [06:59]
Kyle Busch
I would say when you are. I think it kind of goes in a. In a wave, right? Like in an up and then a down, where when you are young and you are first winning races, like, you're gonna take. You're gonna soak that up, you're gonna take that in. You're gonna celebrate as long as you can. You're gonna go all the way to the next race, all the way to Saturday, you know, but as you win regularly and as you get more victories under your belt, it's kind of like what you just said. Where. All right, that was cool. That was good. That was fun. We did our job. Let's. Let's move on to the next one. How can we. How can we do it again? But the focus turns forward, and then I think as you get, you know, older and a little bit deeper into your career and you just don't know how often they're going to come or when the last one is going to be, then I feel like you kind of celebrate those a little bit longer as well. Again, because, again, you just don't know when, when that's, that's ever going to be. So that's, that's kind of where my mind's at and, and how I, you know, celebrate the wins and, and what comes next.
- [08:00]
Kenny Wallace
I hear echoes of Mark Martin towards the end of Mark Martin's, let's say, maybe the last seven years of Mark Martin's career. Mark would say that I don't know when my next win is going to be. So I agree with you and you and Mark Martin in the same breath, that's, that's the best. That's as good as it gets.
- [08:20]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, I love Mark. I've got, you know, cool story with Mark is, you know, I, I remember his kid growing up. Matt was growing up racing a little bit and we were in Florida for speed weeks and he was running Bandolero or a super truck or something like that. And we'd go hang out at the, at New Smyrna and then Matt gave that up. But now, you know, he kind of does his archive page and stuff like that. But anytime they make a new release of a T shirt or a die cast, I always call Mark and I go, you have to send me one. Because I, I was a, I was a Mark Martin fan growing up. I would say I was more of a Jeff Gordon fan growing up just as a kid and the bright color rainbow car, all that. But I liked everybody in general, you know, I even remember Kenny Wallace in the bear car, you know what I mean? So there were, there were days of, of cheering on for Mark and some since I got to know him and be a part of NASCAR and spend some more time with him. You know, he and I, we, we really formed a relationship that we have the utmost respect for one another. So I always love it when he comes out with those, those new retro diecasts and stuff that I gotta have.
- [09:23]
Kenny Wallace
One Kenny conversation is all about conversations, you know, and I remind everybody all the time. I'm not going to ask you the next question. I'm going to wait later. I'm going to go down to something that I had in my notes now that you've talked about Mark, my hero, my mentor, the great Dick Trickle who's not with us anymore. Dick Trickle flat told me to my face, quote unquote, that Kyle Busch is a racer. He came to Wisconsin, maybe he said, I think it was slinger. It was okay. You really impressed the great Dick Trickle. The greatest of all time in my book. He said that you knew your race car and you were working on your race car. What, what do you think about that when I tell you one of the greatest racers of all time says that you, Kyle Busch, you're a racer because you're, you were into your car, under your car, working on the chassis?
- [10:20]
Kyle Busch
Oh, yeah, no. I remember the super late model years that were most fun for me. And going up to Slinger and we went up to Kaukana, we went up to Madison, we did a lot of Wisconsin racing and of course Dick and the Midwest Tour and all those guys were from around that area. So I, I actually knew Dick Trickle a little bit beforehand. Obviously, just following NASCAR and seeing him race in the Bush series, in the Cup Series and everything else. Youngest rookie of the year ever, by the way.
- [10:50]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, 40.
- [10:52]
Kyle Busch
But the. His brother Chuck lived in Las Vegas and his nephew Chris Trickle was racing out in the Southwest Tour and racing late Models and stuff like that on the west coast scene and was probably one of the next west coast guys to make it big to go into nascar. But unfortunately, he was shot in a drive by shooting and never raced again. But that moment was actually the turning point for the Bush family and our stature in Vegas for Kurt to get into that Southwest Tour car that Chris was driving, to take it over to run that 70 star nursery car and run it to multiple wins and a championship. And then that was the moment where Kurt got the call from Roush to go run in the truck series. So, like, there's a whole connection there with respect and everything that we've had through that family and what they've meant to us and us being able to get to the big league. So, you know, to spend some time with Dick when we were up in Wisconsin and to have him say those kinds of things to me, you know, it was always fun to, to talk with him. You know, there was always a coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other, but it was, if it was after the races, it was a Coors Light can in one hand and it was a cigarette in the other, you know, so he was, I tell you, man, he was, he was tough. He was, he was one of the ironmen of the Late Model world, the ASA world, you know, And I don't think he ever really got the, the, the stats in NASCAR that he probably would have hoped for, but he was one of the best of the early days of, of all the ASA stuff, and was highly respected.
- [12:34]
Kenny Wallace
Makes me really happy you talk like that. And you, you just educated. You just taught me a lot about connecting the dots. Kind of reminds me of, of Art Pass. We delivered newspapers To a house. And that was Don Miller. And Don Miller knew Roger Penske. And the rest is history. All because of a newspaper out.
- [12:55]
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- [13:25]
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- [13:52]
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- [13:57]
Kenny Wallace
You are so talented. I've studied your driving technique. I've looked at incar cameras. I say and I'm, and, and I asked Tony Stewart this. I think God gave you a talent. I think you're gifted. Now I don't expect you to say, yeah, I'm God gifted. But I, I think you're God gifted in because from the get go, from the days out in Vegas, other people would spin a car out and you were just winning the races. Do you think you're God gifted or, or did you have to work at it?
- [14:35]
Kyle Busch
I think both. I think you can definitely have a gift. I think that you can also be taught somewhat. I think you can learn a lot and I think, you know, most of it just comes from those again that are around you and, and that help you. My dad was a huge influence and, and support and teacher in a lot of respects of the race car world and the car world and stuff like that. He was a car guy. His dad was a car guy. So when my dad moved out to Vegas, when he married my mom, they went out there for a honeymoon. They liked it. They said, you know what, we're moving from Chicago, we're going to Vegas. And that's Chicago. Yeah.
- [15:11]
Kenny Wallace
Now it makes sense. Okay.
- [15:14]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, yeah. So they, they moved out of there. My dad was a car guy. Right. So what, what happens in the winter in Chicago? Salt. And back in the 70s and 80s and whatever, like cars were made of metal. So what did they do? They rusted and they hold and everything else. So he went to Vegas and, you know, made a. Made a life out there. But he went to the racetrack, he went to the local short track and was just kind of hanging out. And one of the guys that he worked with at a car dealership as a mechanic had a car out there, and the guy they were racing and they weren't really doing that great, they weren't lighting the world on fire, but my, the guy was actually going to sell it and get rid of it. And he said, okay. Well, my dad was like, well, why don't you let me do it? Like, let me. I'll take care of it. I'll house it. Like, let me race it a few times. And they won like three of the last five races of the year in the car. And then he tuned it up, fixed it up for the next year. They went out, won the championship. And he was just a racer. Like, he just loved the cars and racing and stuff like that. So I, I say all that because that kind of gives you a little bit of who my dad was and how good he was at just what he was doing amateurly. And I asked him one time, I was like, well, how come you moved out west? Why didn't you go south? Why didn't you go to the east and try to make a career in racing and, and whatever? And he was like, oh, we didn't, we didn't have any money. Like, there was. There was no money. And I was like, well, I hear all the stories of, like, Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt and all those guys that they didn't have money either. And he goes, no, we. We didn't have any money. So that, that was, that was his excuse. But, you know, he worked for everything that he had. He worked for everything that we had that we were able to go race with, and he busted his butt really, really hard for us, for myself and my brother. So, you know, but that's where I was taught from. I taught from coming from nothing, making everything ourselves, doing it all ourselves, and pushing ourselves to the limits of just every day. Man, it's what you eat, sleep, breathe blood, sweat, tears, all that stuff to become a racer. So for me, I was in the garage at 5 years old, sanding on the body of a 1933 Ford that my dad was building and 32 Ford. And when we finally finished that car and got it done, it was immaculate, like it was a magazine car. It was actually in the magazine a couple of them. And when my brother wanted to start Racing. We didn't have the money to, for my brother to buy a car for Kurt to go to start racing. My dad had a car, but nothing for Kurt. So my dad sold that 32 Ford for $32,000 and was able to take that money and go invest into some race cars for Kurt to get started. And, you know, so he, he was making sacrifices left and right.
- [17:53]
Kenny Wallace
So you're, what I'm hearing is even though I feel this is me, you have a God given talent, but because of your father, you never, you never gave up on, on the chassis. You, you knew that Earnhardt said to me, when you have a fast horse, you ride it and you can't win them all if, if your car is not there. Am I saying that right? You were into your car.
- [18:18]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, no, definitely. And I think one of the lessons that are our dad taught us too was, you know, you have to take care of your equipment and you have to make it to where you're not spending a ton of money every week to be able to go to the racetrack the next week. So not crashing, not burning up the tires, not over running the engine, stuff like that. So, like, when we would get out front, you know, dad had a rule. It was basically like, pace the field as much as you need to pace the field to lead the race. Like, that's it. You know, there were times where we probably could have lapped the field, but we didn't do it because we didn't need to do it. Right. Like it's, it's. Make yourself be the first guy to the checker flag. So it was always about taking care of your stuff and, and what you had so you can focus on, you know, other things to, to make yourself fast. The chassis, the car, the setup, to be able, instead of fixing stuff. If you're always fixing stuff, then you're not working on your car to make it go faster. So that, that was a big part of it. But back to your original question a little bit where, you know, is it God given? Is it taught, is it learned? Whatever. I, I think it's all like, I look at William Byron, for instance, right? Like, I don't know that anybody would have ever expected a financial advisor who William's dad is to, you know, birth his son that was going to be a professional NASCAR race car driver. Right?
- [19:33]
Kenny Wallace
Like, right.
- [19:33]
Kyle Busch
The kid enjoyed racing. He watched racing. He grew up in Charlotte, so he knew what it was. He got on the simulator, he was playing on that and thought it was fun. Thought he was pretty good at it and then kind of asked his dad to get a start into racing and go karts and legends cars and that sort of stuff. And he won and everything that he was in. And so his, his dad.
- [19:55]
Kenny Wallace
Had to find. Here we are busting our ass.
- [19:59]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, yeah, right. But I mean, William did too. William worked at it, but yeah, you know, I think he had good people around him that taught him what to do about it. His dad was not a car guy. Like, he was not in the garage working on cars, figuring out cars, all that sort of stuff. But he still became a really good race car driver without having all of that knowledge and that background. So he was, he probably had a God given talent that fortunately he found and was able to go do what he loved to do with that and made the most of it.
- [20:28]
Kenny Wallace
I hear you. Now you're, you are saying that he is a God given talent. I, I want to brag on you a couple ways. I, as I'm listening to you, I keep hearing the greats, the great quotes. You know, Dick Trickle would say, you must first finish to finish first. And then, you know, I've heard Mark Martin, I've heard Dick Trickle, you're talking like the great. So let's turn the corner a little bit. Let's change the subject. It appears to me that when I watch your press conferences, the one great thing about social media is I get to see your press conferences. They, they pop up. And I have never in my life, since you've been racing, seen you so happy.
- [21:16]
Kyle Busch
You're.
- [21:16]
Kenny Wallace
You're joking. Not. Listen, I know you're very serious, but it seems like you're having fun with the media right now. You're getting the biggest laughs in the media center. What's going on there? What has changed to make you have so much fun?
- [21:34]
Kyle Busch
I don't know. You know, I guess I hate to say it because I don't want to say it because I don't want to admit to it, but you're in your later years of your career, right?
- [21:44]
Kenny Wallace
So it's okay. You're still the man.
- [21:46]
Kyle Busch
Yeah. So I guess just, you know, trying to have a little bit of fun, even though sometimes the, the results aren't indicative of having much fun. You know, there's definitely weekends where we go to the track and we struggle and that's no fun, you know, but trying to have the most of what's left of my career in nascar, however long that might be, is for me to enjoy. Right. I look at some of the other guys who kind of finished out Some of them were, were old and wore out and just didn't want to do it anymore and, and weren't having fun. And so to me, I feel like it would be nice to just go out on my own terms and, and win and when that time is right. And I don't know what, how I figure that out, but I'm sure I will. But sometimes when I'm able to go to these media availabilities or just be at the racetrack, you know, everybody's asking me, well, how's Braxton doing? What's he racing this weekend? How's he going? And you know, it just, it puts a smile on my face. It makes me happy to just know that people are paying attention to him and what he's doing and how good he is and how his development is coming along. So, you know, I think that that just kind of takes the edge off of exactly what I'm doing and what I'm focused on where, you know, years ago, man, it was, it was, it was so cutthroat for me because we're in a performance based business, right? So like if you're not performing and you're not doing your job that you need to be doing, like I always thought, man, I'm, I'm on the coat hanger of getting let go here, you know what I mean? So. Which wasn't, which wasn't fact. But that just pushed me, that just made me who I was to make sure that I was getting all I could get. So I've got a great opportunity right now with RCR and Brexton's doing really good. So I just, you know, being a little happier these days.
- [23:27]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, I like, it makes a sense too. So I do want to get to Braxton a little bit and I'm going to come at that a little different angle. Do. This is pretty simple. Denny Hamlin has taken over your role. Do, do you miss being the bad guy?
- [23:48]
Kyle Busch
I miss winning. I miss winning as much that, that's where, that's where most of it came from for me was when. So when I came into nascar, I was booed from the start. You know, my first race was a truck series race at Joliet or something like that close. That was my second one. It was actually Indy irp. I ran IRP for my first truck race and there were some booze in the crowd and I'm like, what? Like I didn't even do anything, you know. And so six truck races go by and then I had to, I had to, I got Kicked out of nascar. So I had to go run ASA and some ARCA races. And then when I came back to nascar, I came back in the Xfinity series to run a part time schedule, and I was in the 87 Ditech car. And by then, Kurt wasn't necessarily making the best of friends on the NASCAR level.
- [24:39]
Kenny Wallace
Right. I went through that with Rusty. Everybody hated me because of Rusty. Now they hate you because of Kurt.
- [24:45]
Kyle Busch
That's right. That's right. So, you know, when I got driver intros for my first Xfinity series race, I got booed out of there. And I was like, what the heck? I didn't do anything. It's Kyle, not Kurt.
- [24:55]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [24:56]
Kyle Busch
And. And so from there on, you know, and I was bound and determined that I was going to make a name for myself and make a name in the sport, and certainly was able to do that. But, you know, winning, winning a lot. There were years, 2009, 10, 11, 12, 13. I think I won 20 something races a year in those years, you know, with truck, Xfinity and Cup, and we were just knocking them down and people hated it. You know, they. That's where the Kyle Bush rule came from, because everybody hated it so bad that I was dipping into trucks and Xfinity and winning all the time that now you're limited to your five starts out of the year. And so it's just tough to find that, that chemistry and that niche with those teams because you're only there for five times out of the year. So I feel like nowadays it's kind of like nobody does it because it's hard enough as it is to win races at the cup level. But now it's hard to win races at the Truck and Xfinity level because you're not doing it every week to build the program to where it needs to be. You're not involved in it enough to be there to, to keep it the way that it needs to be with the people that you got. So, yeah, I mean, that, that was. I applaud Denny for, for taking on the role.
- [26:05]
Kenny Wallace
Yes.
- [26:06]
Kyle Busch
And I, I, it's fun to see it from another side because I, I knew how to live it. And that's the thing, man. Like, you just have to embrace it and you just have to roll with it and go with it and take it on, you know, and say like, yeah, you hate me because I'm a badass and you're just jealous.
- [26:24]
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- [26:54]
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- [27:19]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, I like cattle. Kind of like kid rock out of Detroit. Don't come to Detroit. We're bad up here. But yeah, so, you know, you brought up a good point just now. You single handedly created two new NASCAR rules. One was you were so young that you won, what were you, 15 or 16? You won. And so NASCAR said, no, that's too young.
- [27:47]
Kyle Busch
16. I was 16 running in the truck series and I was running, you know, with all the great truck series drivers of the time, the Jack Spragues and the Mike Skinners and the, and the Hornadays and whoever. Scott Riggs at that time, I remember him being there being really good. Mike Bliss. Anyway, the, I was at mile and a half and two mile speedways and I'm 16 years old and people are like, this kid hasn't even had a driver's license for three months.
- [28:17]
Kenny Wallace
Peach fuzz on you.
- [28:19]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, I mean, exactly. So they're, they're, they're part of it was, I think they're thinking to themselves like, damn, do we really need 16 year old kids going 200 something miles an hour? Like probably not. But then the other reason was that we were at Fontana and Marlboro had sponsorship of the IndyCar weekend. And so I was in the newspaper at, you know, 16 year old Kyle Busch to participate in this weekend's Marlboro 500 Driving in the truck series. Well, Marlboro had nothing to do with the truck series, but since it was painted on the grass in the infield, the state attorneys general of California said, no, no, no, we can't have this. Send them packing. So, you know, and of course at that time Winston was sponsoring the cup series. So because this was all prior to 2004, when Nextel took over.
- [29:08]
Kenny Wallace
Wow. There's a lot more to that story than I thought.
- [29:11]
Kyle Busch
So.
- [29:12]
Kenny Wallace
So you created that rule. That's the Kyle Busch rule. You start. You started doing good in NASCAR too young, and then you created the other rule by winning too much in trucks and Xfinity. And I'm gonna say this in a smart ass way. Are you proud that you added two. Two rules to the NASCAR rule book?
- [29:33]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, I think. I think yes. I would say Smokey Eunuch and. And all the great crew chiefs are definitely proud anytime they can add a new rule to the rule book. So I. I have to be the same way. Yeah, as long as they don't revert on those rules. If Kyle Bush is gone and they revert on those rules, I am going to be pissed off. Yeah, there's another Bush coming and he's gonna. He's gonna wax those rules back.
- [29:55]
Kenny Wallace
I like that. Okay, change subjects a little bit. Again, we listen to you. You've earned it. You've done it. All your thoughts on the Denny Hamlin drama, the restart zone at Richmond, we all understand it by now, but I want to hear your take. I've already given my take, but I want to hear yours.
- [30:21]
Kyle Busch
So, yeah, when you, when you look at the rule, the rule is black and white. You're supposed to restart in the restart zone. So to me, you got to call it, you got to officiate it. I don't know that it can necessarily be a black and white rule. Like, you can clearly see the guy go early, right? But then when you take a step back for a second and you look at all of the outside variables that are happening around Denny, and you look at Martin hanging back a little bit, and you look at the two in the. And behind them, the 22 and the five that were hanging back a little bit, they're all trying to time that role and time that momentum because they know the restart zone, they know where it is. So you're as the leader, you're already kind of at a disadvantage. They did extend the restart zone a couple years ago and make it bigger so you could go more within the zone. But those guys all still are trying to edge up and get that half a mile an hour advantage to just when Denny accelerates, they can accelerate, and then they have the momentum, they have the run on them, so they can put him in a bad spot getting into one. So I. Denny is very smart. He's very calculated. He understands a lot of things very well, and he's probably looking in his mirror or looking in his, his rear view screen and seeing this happening around him and, and seeing it develop. And so he wants to go early to put those guys back on their heels. And like, that's, I think, I believe that's what he did.
- [31:46]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [31:46]
Kyle Busch
And there was a great explanation of it just yesterday, I think it was on, I don't know if it was on NASCAR social, if it was on Instagram or what, but it was Steve Latart and the old Pence.
- [31:57]
Kenny Wallace
Todd Gordon.
- [31:58]
Kyle Busch
Todd Gordon. They were going through it and they were going over it and they explained it that way. And so to me, I, I wholeheartedly agree with them. So if you're the leader and you're in that, and you're in that position, what are you supposed to do? Like, if Denny just sits there and waits and waits till the end of the restart zone, the more you wait in the rest, the more and more those guys know you're going to go, right, because the, the flag man is going to throw the green flag by the time you get to the second line. So I don't know, like, rules are rules. If I'm a rule guy and everybody wants to go by black and white, then you got to call it, you know, you gotta, you gotta penalize the guy.
- [32:32]
Kenny Wallace
So that brings me to. I'm gonna go somewhere that I probably shouldn't go. But you look at Carl Edwards, you look at Miami Homestead where Joey's third on the restart, and you know, it almost should be, in my opinion, as illegal to lay back because Joey Logano at Miami Homestead lays back, gets the run on Carl Edwards, gets to the inside, they wreck. Not long later, Carl says, I'm out for all the reasons that I've already did a show on. I thought about that because here's Joey laying back. Now, listen, I don't blame Joey. We're all gonna, you know, they're gonna attack him. But I saw that. I agree with you. I mean, here we are, now Joey's laying back, he's gonna get the run on him, and now we're gonna wreck in turn one again. I think that's what Denny was defending.
- [33:31]
Kyle Busch
Against exactly a thousand percent. That's exactly what, what was going on there. So you're right that it was all, it was all defense, you know, and like I said, as the leader, you're, you have the advantage of being able to restart when you want to restart, but unfortunately it's in a zone and so they know that you're going to go within that zone and with these cars and everything all being so similar now, it's not like restart ratios, you can have any sort of advantage or anything. You're all with the same stuff. So I feel like even though Martin hung back a little bit and Denny went early, Martin still hung on his door and was still right there and able to stay side by side with him getting off into turn one. So even though Denny got a two foot better restart, Martin was still right there.
- [34:14]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, I think we exposed, I think the sport accidentally exposed a tough situation. If I'm in the driver's meeting, I'm going to say, guys, if you lay back, you know, don't make us. Because I, I think it's that that creates the problem. Let's have a little fun.
- [34:32]
Kyle Busch
Since I've been having fun, we haven't been having fun.
- [34:34]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, we're having fun. We're having more fun now. We are having fun.
- [34:39]
Kyle Busch
We really somewhere, right?
- [34:41]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. Right. Since you have won at all the NASCAR cup tracks, I see you and some. Sam, as you would say, or the guys at Toyota used to call her Sam. Since you've wanted all the NASCAR cup tracks, what racetrack do you and your family, what racetrack do you look at? And you go. Not because of the racetrack so much, but we're just excited to go to this, this city, this vicinity. Which one do you enjoy the most?
- [35:13]
Kyle Busch
There's, there's a few of them, of course. All the big cities, you know, that's always fun. We enjoy going out to la. For as crazy as traffic is out there, L. A was always good. So Fontana was, was fun, LA was fun. Phoenix is probably our favorite. The, the hiking out there, Scottsdale, the food, all that stuff. Being West Coast, I'm from the west coast, so that's always cool. You know, Miami's always great. You know, I've got a few friends down in, in Georgia, between Georgia and Alabama, so going down there to hang out with those guys is, is pretty cool. And I guess if you're just looking to be kind of glamping at the racetracks, you know, you go to the short track, Martinsville or Bristol or even Richmond, you know, you're not in really these, these big metropolis places, so you just kind of hang out in the bus and you know, grill out and cook out and hang out at the bus, watch the kids scooter around and play with chalk or whatever it might be. So.
- [36:13]
Kenny Wallace
It has been said now, and I mean this in a positive way, I love my wife. She, she keeps me centered. It has been said that your wife made you a better person. It, you know, it was like, maybe we're a little crazy, and then when we get married. Has Samantha made you a better person?
- [36:34]
Kyle Busch
Oh, yeah, a thousand percent, definitely. You know, I, I. The rowdy nickname didn't come along because I wasn't right, you know, so I did have a little bit of that before her. And then obviously we dated for a little bit, and we've been married for 13 years now. So, you know, it's been a hot minute. But I would say the, the kids thing kind of changes you a little bit as well, too. More so, you know, just. I was still a hot head, getting in trouble, doing crazy, stupid things, you know, with Samantha, being married to Samantha. But when the kids came along, I think it kind of calm down a lot more. So, you know, that I feel like that's probably the biggest sense.
- [37:16]
Kenny Wallace
When, whenever things would go bad at the racetrack, did you allow her to grab you by the arm and say, kyle, calm down. It'll be okay? Did she ever help you in those moments?
- [37:27]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, definitely. I feel like anytime, you know, you go back to the motorhome and your wife's there, your dog's there, then your kids are there. How, you know, however, it might be, like, even now, on a tough day or a tough race day or whatever, I, I walk in the bus and Braxton's there, and he's like, he gives me a hug and he's like, sorry, dad. You know, you just. You didn't have the car today, you know, something like that. So that's, that's always, you know, it's super sweet, super nice. You've got a shoulder to lean on, and at times there's been, you know, a shoulder needed to cry on, and whether it's been her or whether it's been me. And so, yeah, it's definitely been great having them come around as much as they do, you know, when with Samantha, she was at every race all the time, like, spent every weekend, just, you know, put her life away and followed along with my stuff, you know. And now that Braxton's getting older and getting to where he races a bit more, she'll go with him to his races. So sometimes I bet you they don't come to six or seven of my races. I mean, they still come to a lot, but, like, Braxton's doing his thing, so they go, do they go do that with him? So we're still together as much as we can be together.
- [38:37]
Kenny Wallace
I'm a big fan of your wife. On Instagram and she exposes how much fun you are. I. I think it's awesome. I think social media, like I said earlier, when used right, is just awesome. I like the one on Instagram yesterday where it's the same thing as my wife. They never quit spending money, fixing the house up. And, and she, she's gonna re. She's gonna repaint the house and you're like, here we go again. You know?
- [39:10]
Kyle Busch
Yeah.
- [39:11]
Kenny Wallace
It looks to me like you have a lot of fun when she. Because you guys do small skits and I enjoy them. It's like you're creating, you know, 30 minute skits. They're fun. Do you enjoy it?
- [39:26]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, no, I. It is, it is fun. You know, it gives a greater sense into our personality and then to really what's going on behind the scenes in our life. You know, people are always seeing us at, at the racetrack, during racing, going between garage areas, this or that, being pulled in a million different directions. And so it's always kind of. Kind of crazy. But when you're at home. Yeah, there's. There's times where you're at home, you're just kind of sitting there chilling. You're watching tv, you're looking at your phone, you're. You're working on emails, whatever it might, might be. And then, I mean, that, that is a real life situation. Like, I even posted in her comments, I was like, this is real life, people.
- [39:59]
Kenny Wallace
Oh, no, I saw it. That's why I asked the question. Yeah, I'm the same way.
- [40:03]
Kyle Busch
I mean, she goes walking. I don't even know where she got the paint book from. Yeah, but I gotta find that thing and throw it away. She hides from me. So then I can't. She always needs to revert back to it.
- [40:15]
Kenny Wallace
Mikey Waltz made me laugh when you were a baby. His, you know, Buffy was his first wife. And of course, Schrader and myself, we're all having a good time and we're drinking and. And Michael Walter says, yeah, Buffy's a really good decorator. I told her, try decorating with no money.
- [40:34]
Kyle Busch
Now, William, try decorating somebody else's house.
- [40:40]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, a lot of fun. We love our wives, no doubt, but. But as they say, men are from Mars, women are from Venus, we are from two different places. I want to talk about Brexit a little bit. Now, I, I know that people do ask you questions about him because it does make you happy, but I was listening to Bill Elliott years ago, and Bill said. Here's what Bill said. He said, I sat down with Rick Hendrick and I, and we formulated this plan and this, and this is where I want Chase to be. And it, it happened. I believe you might have said something about Richard Childress and Brexton. Do you have a plan formulated, you know, with Richard Childress and, and Brexton?
- [41:36]
Kyle Busch
No. So when I got hired on by RCR and we went through our press conference and stuff like that, Richard brought a hundred dollar bill with and, and signed it and gave it to Braxton as basically his, his commitment to Braxton.
- [41:49]
Kenny Wallace
You know, I love it.
- [41:50]
Kyle Busch
And so Richard's committed to him and, and just, you know, they, they help us out a little bit here and there with some stuff. You know, we get, you know, some, some drinks from them. We also bring some of our cars to their paint shop and, and they get painted and stuff like that. So it's, it's a little bit of stuff here or there, which is great. Just kind of helps us out because since I sold kbm, I don't, I don't have access to all of that stuff anymore, you know, so we have to go to outside vendors more. But yeah, Brexton's development and his path and everything like that. I, there is no, you know, I haven't gone that far with it where I've sat down with anybody. I feel like he's still too young. He's only eight. He'll be nine in May. So by the time we get to about 12 is really when I need to figure stuff out with him. Because 12 you can get into late models, you know, TA2 cars, road course cars, stuff like that is right around the corner. Super Late models is right around the corner, all that sort of stuff. So want to make sure that he still enjoys it, he still likes it, he's still going to do it. There is a plan just in my mind. Like I don't even know how to get there, but you're drinking. When Brexton's 14, I'd like to run a full truck series schedule to try to go after a championship, to win a championship, give it one shot, try to go get it and then when he turns the next year, he'll turn 15. So he and I split the truck because he can run under a mile races at 15. So we'd split it for two years and then when he turns 18, he gets the truck full time and he's in and I'm out. You know what I mean? So like that's the kind of idea, the play that I have, but I don't see. I Don't forecast or. I don't see anything where he and I race each other on Sunday.
- [43:39]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, that's awesome, though. They say to. To be good, you got a dream. And man, what a. What a wonderful dream that is. So when I look at you, I say to myself, my gosh, what else does this guy need to do? Obviously, there's things you want to do, but in racing, when, you know, I read your stats, they're unbelievable. So in your mind, what else? You know, I mean, we all know we want to keep winning, but what is it that drives you? What. What is the next accomplishments? We just heard some of your dreams with. With Brexit. What are your dreams with you left? I mean, you still got a lot of time. You're young.
- [44:24]
Kyle Busch
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Daytona 500 obviously, is top of the list. That's. That's number one. I want to be able to win the Daytona 500 and have that accomplishment checked off. But that's the last box, essentially, that's empty. Of course, there's. There's adding to the already checked boxes that you want to add to. Right. You want to win the Coke 600 again, you want to win the All Star Race again. Again. You want to win another championship, that sort of stuff. And I think with a championship, you know, for me, like, I would. I would love nothing more than to bring home a championship to Richard Childress Racing with our number 8 car and to be the first guy to do it since Dale Earnhardt did it in 1994, you know, so to me, like, that would be. I. That would be icing on the cake for me in my career. Even though it's only one more and it's only three for me, like, that's. That sets it for me, where I won two at jgr. I moved on to a different team with rcr. I won another one at rcr, and then I could probably just, you know, walk away and. And be done and happy with that.
- [45:27]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, understood. So I want. I want to. I want to say to everybody listening right now that you're good to me. You call me a couple times a year looking for race tracks, dirt tracks for your son. You're. You're calculated and. And I know this about you. So I just wanted to preface this so you don't think I'm attacking you. The racer in me just looks at your teammate, Austin Dillon, and they're changing crew chiefs around and they're trying to get your cars faster. So it's no secret right now that RCR's cars are off a little bit. You're a racer is what I'm trying to say. What area do you think that needs to be worked on in your cup cars at RCR to get a little more speed?
- [46:21]
Kyle Busch
I mean, that's. That's a great question. We talk about that every week. The short track stuff has definitely been our struggle. And we. Everybody nowadays relies so much on simulation and all that sort of stuff. But the SIM card stuff has kind of thrown us the wrong way and has led us down the wrong path. A couple times, like we tried. We went to the simulator for Richmond last year for the spring, and we built a setup based around what was fast on. On. On the sim. And we ran it, and we ran 20th. I think we finished 18th or something in the spring race. And then we went back there in the fall and we literally just copied. Thankfully, we have our key partners with Chevy, with team Chevy and the Hendrick guys. And we just copied the Hendrick guys setups for when we went back there in the fall and we ran third, I ran third, Austin ran eighth, I think. And we took those same exact setups from last fall and ran them again this time because we're like, surely if we're going to be any. Any worse, we're going to run 10th, you know what I mean? But if we're still going to. If they're still going to be what they were, then we're going to run top five. And we ran 20th like we were not even in the ballpark. So it's crazy that that stuff like that happens, like what's tried and true. Don't screw it up, dummy. Just run it again and lo and behold, it doesn't work. So you always got to be on the forefront of new ideas and fresh ideas, and you just got to be smarter and better. So I think some of it is setup stuff. Yes. I think some of it is car build, you know, just having the splitter in the right position, having the floor in the right position, the body in the right position, like all that sort of stuff and being able to get everything right with that and, you know, what's next on the forefront of, you know, little chassis tweaks that you can do. And where do you put this washer and that spacer for your ackerman or for, you know, your bump steer or do you bump steer the rear, all that sort. Like, there's just so many things now that. That you have at your dis. Well, you have at your disposal, but everybody has the same stuff, so it's really, really hard to find that advantage.
- [48:22]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, I understand. I, I was at Bristol and I was looking at the cars and I thought to myself, my Lord, you know, and you're right. As the same as they all are. There's a lot of adjustments and I, I get it.
- [48:39]
Kyle Busch
And the little list of things can make you a hero or make you a zero. I mean, it is so small. It's crazy.
- [48:45]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is unbelievable. I get it. I totally get it. Because I build my own race cars and you and I are.
- [48:55]
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- [49:49]
Kenny Wallace
The same. Well, we have an hour and here we are already 47 minutes. So let's end this the way that I do with the other greats.
- [49:59]
Kyle Busch
All right?
- [50:00]
Kenny Wallace
You've been in NASCAR a long time and you've done it all. And I've said that it's my second time. So that qualifies you to tell me what you think about NASCAR right now and we can discuss it a little bit in its totality, from what tracks they're going to to rules to restart zones. What do you think about NASCAR right now?
- [50:26]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, I mean, I feel as though we've, we've definitely gotten away from the racing product and the competitive nature of our business. Although we all race every weekend, I feel like, and NASCAR said it like we need butts in the seats. We're in entertainment business. You know, I feel like in the older days, you know, 70s, 80s, 90s, people came to see the competition, people came to see the competitors race and who was going to beat who and who might get into a tangle with who and that sort of stuff. Right. And now we're an entertainment business. We want to see more cars on tv, more racing, more passing, more this and that. I mean, everybody talks about how great Bristol was. That was an epic disaster that turned out to be a great race. I mean, just because of tire life and saving tires and this and that. Like, it gave. Now, was it extreme? It was. It was extreme, right? Like, if we could have had tires that went 50 laps, no matter how hard you ran them, but they would burn off at 60, that would have been great. But literally we were burning them off at 30. So I feel like there is a lot more pressure that can be put on, on Goodyear to making the product better. I do feel as though the. The avenues that we've gone down with the technology in the car, with the aero stuff that we've done with the underbody and the. And the diffuser and all that doesn't work in our landscape. Because to me, we're all. We. We race in circles. Majority, right? And when you're in people's wakes and when you're racing around, you hear this arrow tight or this, this downforce talk all the time. You've got to create less of that. So when you lose it, you are losing less of it. We. We shouldn't have more of it. And the thing about our cars is when we're in traffic and you're behind somebody, you're going through the corner and you get tucked up behind somebody, your. The overbody air that's going over the car in front of you is now not pushing down on your car downforce, right? It's not pushing down on your car, but the air from underneath that car in front of you is now going underneath your front splitter. And when it comes out from the back of the car in front of you, it starts this upwards twirl. And that upwards twirl to me, catches the front splitter. Because our front Splitters are now 2 inches off the ground to get air underneath them. Well, now it's creating lift. So that's what we call blowout moments. We have blowouts where the front of our car shoots out from behind the guy in front of you. So we. We need to eliminate that stuff and get rid of that stuff. And I. That's my take on it. I think you're always going to have a product of arrow issues because, I mean, I love Mark and Mark Martin and talking with him, he was like, if you're moving air is involved.
- [53:14]
Kenny Wallace
No matter what. No matter what.
- [53:17]
Kyle Busch
No matter what. So, like, those guys were looking at that stuff in the 70s, racing Arrows with all the blown out fenders and the big old spoilers, like they knew what was up.
- [53:25]
Kenny Wallace
Oh, yeah.
- [53:26]
Kyle Busch
And so, yeah, it's just air is important, so we're all trying to utilize it way too heavily.
- [53:33]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. You know, as they would say back in the day, I'm not ashamed, but, you know, and you. You were involved in this. You know, we were moving the noses, you know, to the right, which made the fender straight, which made you get in the corner better. Put more angle on the left front pull. Yeah. You know, Mark is right. You know, sometimes we don't say it in a fancy way. Never mind. I got to tell this quick story. You just got me going. You know, my brother Rusty is an incredible chassis man. He. He's as good a chassis man as he is a driver. And they're. They're at Bristol and they're testing, and, you know, it's Penske shocks. Well, Rusty's owner is Roger Penske. So they have a Penske guy come, and Rusty kind of builds the shocks on his own. You know, he don't build them, but he tells them what he wants, looks at the graph. Penske guys goes, let me build you some shocks for Russell. Rusty puts his big paw up right in front of the FA Guy's face. He goes, I got this, pal. You know, so it's chassis our whole life. And I don't think the fans understand how smart you are. And, and I'm glad that you really explained all that Arrow stuff, because there's not many drivers like you, Mark Martin, Rusty, you know, and then I think about how great that makes Jeff Gordon, because he don't know. Hell, he couldn't weld two pieces of metal together, but he still gets it done.
- [55:00]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, he's a four time champion. He definitely got it done. He knew what he was doing in that time. I mean, you know, to me, I feel like some of the. Some of the older stuff, like late 2010, 12, 13 era, like I really knew what was going on. I could tell the guys what was going on with the cars and stuff. And then we got to bump stops and I, you know, we were on coil bind first, and then we got the bump stops, and I still felt like I had a good sense of what was going on. And then we got to this car and I'm, you know, I don't know if it's the. If it's the independent rear or what's happening. That's kind of thrown me off a little bit of of the true rear feel that I'm getting because like I can burn through a set of rear tires faster than anybody. Where the old car, I was fine. Like I didn't have that problem with the old car. Like I could over drive the tire, over drive the car. And that's was. That was where I made my speed. And now it's like whenever I do that, whenever I overdrive the tire, I can make speed doing it. I can run up to the next guy and catch him, but when I get there, I got nothing to pass him with, you know what I mean? So like, I just feel like that's kind of been my struggle recently with this car is just having. Having the. The. The know with all to what limit and how hard and fast you got to drive the thing.
- [56:12]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, this is going to be brutal what I'm going to say. But as you're talking, I'm thinking this car technically stopped your brother Kurt Bush's career. It was so stiff that when he wrecked it, it hurt his brain. And you're, you know, obviously your brother. I'm not telling you anything. I'm just saying for the fans. Kurt Busch, your brother said that. Listen, I just can't get back the way I used to be now to solidify this. You know, I've looked at the cars and now NASCAR's went to all the rear bars in the back and cut slots in them to weaken the rear clips. A lot of people. I guess my question to you statement, I want you to respond is there's been a lot of people that have paid the price with this car.
- [57:06]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know that it's just this car. I mean, look back in history, right? Like when you had the cars off the streets, you know, the showroom cars that they put bars in and they went to the racetrack with, we were hurting people back then as well, too. So safety initiatives have definitely come a long ways always and need to always be at the forefront to keep drivers safe. So, yes, Kurt, you know, he did get hurt in this car and it was made too stiff and all of us drivers talked about it. I think Ryan Newman voiced it a lot of times. And he, he probably had a little bush in him also where he didn't quite give it the. In the nicest way to it as well as they probably should have. But they, they. Ryan didn't say anything wrong. He just might not have said it the right way. But you know, they have done some of that work where they've softened up the front Clip. They've softened up the rear clip. They've tried to add some, some crush zones to the car so it doesn't all boom, go to the driver. Because our seats are mounted. They're, they're, they're hard mounted. Right. Like, we're not on air. We're not on air. We're not in rubber. We're nothing. Like, it's just the, anything of the shock of the car goes through to the driver. So trying to take some of that away has certainly been beneficial. And, yeah, I mean, we just got to keep working on it.
- [58:29]
Kenny Wallace
Do you like, same subject. Do you like NASCAR going to the Chicago street course? Do you like them trying new things?
- [58:40]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, I think the Chicago thing, you know, I, I liked it. You know, in 2018, I think it was when I became the only driver to ever win at every track that was on the schedule because the schedule had stayed the same for here we go. And so that's why I got that. Like, that was great. And so now we go to all these different tracks, and I've never wanted any of them. So. No, I don't like those tracks.
- [59:01]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [59:02]
Kyle Busch
Until I went at them. But Chicago I thought was great. I mean, as much as it was, the weather didn't play well with us, and we had to deal with the rain and the flooding and all that sort of stuff. The fans were still there. It still turned out really well. I hope that we've got a bright, nice 85 degree day when we go back this year. And it's awesome for everybody to come up there and enjoy a nice venue at the, the concerts going on and barbecues and whatever else. So it's fourth of July weekend. It's a great weekend to be up there in Chicago and enjoying it outside. So that was fun. Can we do some more of that? I think so. I've heard Long beach talks. I think that would be fine. The only trap, the only corner that concerns me there is obviously the last final turn, the hairpin before leading onto the front stretch. It's so tight over there. And our cars, like, when we turn, they don't turn far enough. Like, the steering boxes don't. Don't turn the tires far enough in order to get around some tight turns. Like, you know, we used to be able to turn in and out of the garage areas with our old cars. Fine. Now whenever we go in and out of the garage areas, we have to pull up to the next door, back up and pull back in. We got to do a darn, you know, so I Think that might be an issue. But we proved at the Coliseum that it was fine. So, you know, I think it'll be good.
- [60:12]
Kenny Wallace
That's good stuff. That. That reminds me of Juan Pablo talking about racing at Monaco. That. That one where they go around the. He. He says you get to a point where if you don't do it right, you can't make the corner right.
- [60:24]
Kyle Busch
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Somebody won't do it right and they won't make the corner. And then it's a. It's a log jam backwards.
- [60:30]
Kenny Wallace
Well, you. You brought up something really exciting. Let's end it on that, Kyle. So Long Beach. Maybe that's what they're going to announce. I've been looking at social media. You've given me a little nugget there. Let's see if it turns out to be true. Maybe it's going to be Long beach next year and that would be exciting. Nice area. You and Samantha would like that area out there, I guess. What do you know about it?
- [60:55]
Kyle Busch
I know nothing. I know nothing. All I know is it was the Toyota Long Beach Grand Prix for how many years? So.
- [61:03]
Kenny Wallace
Right.
- [61:04]
Kyle Busch
Being a part of the Toyota family, I'll have to reach out to my friends over there to get some passes for some friends that are in the area. I'm sure I like it.
- [61:11]
Kenny Wallace
Well, Kyle Busch, listen, this was wonderful. I think the fans have learned a lot about you. You are right there at the greatest, one of the greatest of all time. Your numbers are incredible. That's why we started the show off like that. Listen, everybody, we are in podcast form. Check us out on itunes, Spotify and Kyle Busch. Thank you so much for being on Kenny Conversation.
- [61:38]
Kyle Busch
Absolutely, man. Yeah, happy to do it. Glad we covered a lot of different topics. So good. Good going, man.
- [61:44]
Kenny Wallace
All right, thanks a lot. All right, everybody. Until next time, check out Dirty Mo.
- [61:54]
Kyle Busch
Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.
- [61:59]
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- [62:28]
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