“Boys Have At It”: How Robin Pemberton Went From Cup Winning Crew Chief To Legendary NASCAR Official

Summary

Episode Summary: “Boys Have At It”: How Robin Pemberton Went From Cup Winning Crew Chief To Legendary NASCAR Official

Host and Guest Introduction The episode of Herm & Schrader features Robin Pemberton, a highly respected figure in NASCAR history, as the guest. Hosted by Kenny Wallace, the conversation delves into Robin's extensive career, his pivotal roles within NASCAR teams, and his influence on the sport's evolution.

---

1. Early Life and Introduction to Racing [03:48 - 06:58]

Robin Pemberton begins by sharing his roots in Malta, New York, highlighting his family's involvement in the restaurant business near the Albany Saratoga Speedway. This proximity to the racetrack fostered his early passion for racing, allowing him to form lasting relationships with racing legends like Jerry Cook and Pete Hamilton.

Robin Pemberton [04:24]: "We were in the outskirts, about 10 miles of Boston Spa... I got to meet some great people."

Key Highlights:

• Grew up near Albany Saratoga Speedway, immersing in the racing culture from a young age.
• Maintained lifelong friendships with notable racers, influencing his future career in NASCAR.

---

2. Transition to Petty Enterprises [09:50 - 14:58]

Kenny Wallace commends Robin as one of the greatest crew chiefs, citing his 26 NASCAR Cup Series wins. Robin recounts his move south in 1979 with only $65, driving his blue Corvette to join Petty Enterprises. Despite financial hardships, including sleeping in his car, his dedication paid off as he rose to become the crew chief for racing icons like Cal Petty, Mark Martin, and Rusty Wallace.

Robin Pemberton [10:09]: "I drove down... I was, literally, a virgin... and I was overwhelmed."

Key Highlights:

• Overcame financial struggles to secure a position at Petty Enterprises.
• Developed strong professional relationships, particularly with Richard Petty, who became a major influence.
• Achieved significant success, contributing to Petty Enterprises' dominance during that era.

---

3. Building Roush Racing and Sabco [25:03 - 41:34]

Robin details his pivotal role in founding Roush Racing alongside Steve Meal, discussing the challenges of starting with limited resources and the relentless work ethic that drove them to success. Transitioning to Sabco Racing, Robin shares anecdotes about working with Kyle Petty, emphasizing their collaborative approach to car setup and race strategy that led to multiple victories.

Robin Pemberton [32:28]: "You know, we're going going NASCAR cup racing and putting a team together."

Key Highlights:

• Established Roush Racing, laying the groundwork for its future success in NASCAR.
• Fostered a strong teamwork culture, leading to innovative car setups and race strategies.
• Achieved notable wins, including a memorable race at Rockingham where they led 480 of 492 laps.

---

4. The “Boys Have At It” Moment [85:00 - 88:43]

As Vice President of Competition for NASCAR, Robin recounts the infamous 2010 press conference where he spontaneously declared, "Boys, have at it," encouraging drivers to self-regulate and bring excitement back to the sport. This unscripted remark became a significant moment in NASCAR history, symbolizing a shift towards allowing more driver autonomy amidst growing concerns over the sport's stagnation.

Robin Pemberton [87:42]: "So boys, have at it and have a good time."

Key Highlights:

• Addressed the need for increased excitement and reduced over-regulation in NASCAR.
• The spontaneous declaration received widespread attention, highlighting Robin's influential role.
• Sparked debates on the balance between regulation and driver freedom within the sport.

---

5. Challenges as NASCAR Official [89:02 - 94:27]

Navigating the complexities of officiating within a community of former peers, Robin discusses the difficulties of maintaining impartiality while understanding the intricate dynamics of NASCAR teams. He emphasizes the importance of communication between the competition side and the garage areas, striving to bridge gaps and foster mutual respect.

Robin Pemberton [93:00]: "It was a two-way street because I was able now to see, peek behind the curtain."

Key Highlights:

• Faced the challenge of enforcing rules among former friends and colleagues.
• Worked diligently to educate teams about the competitive and regulatory aspects of NASCAR.
• Struggled with the increasing commercialization and complexity of the sport, impacting team dynamics.

---

6. Reflections on NASCAR’s Evolution [95:22 - 99:56]

Robin reflects on the explosion of NASCAR's popularity in the '90s and '2000s, attributing the sport's challenges to the influx of money and the resultant lack of stringent regulations. He critiques the proliferation of multiple cars per driver and the consequent erosion of competition integrity, advocating for a return to more standardized and cost-effective practices.

Robin Pemberton [97:50]: "We are our own worst enemy... we exploited those rules to our advantage."

Key Highlights:

• Discusses the detrimental effects of excessive team expansion and financial influx.
• Highlights the need for stricter regulations to preserve the competitive nature of NASCAR.
• Expresses a desire for NASCAR to prioritize American-made components and standardized equipment.

---

7. Conclusion and Legacy [104:03 - End]

The episode concludes with Robin Pemberton approaching his induction into the NASCAR Hall of Fame, celebrating his contributions as a pioneer in the sport. Kenny Wallace lauds Robin's relentless dedication and technical expertise, reiterating his status as a legendary figure in NASCAR.

Kenny Wallace [105:30]: "There he is, Robin Pemberton. Are you doing anything right now?"

Key Highlights:

• Robin anticipates his Hall of Fame induction, recognizing his lasting impact on NASCAR.
• Kenny praises Robin's career achievements and his role in shaping the sport.
• The episode wraps up with acknowledgments and invitations to listeners to engage with Kenny Conversation on various platforms.

---

Notable Quotes

• Robin Pemberton [10:09]: "I drove down... I was, literally, a virgin... and I was overwhelmed."
• Robin Pemberton [25:03]: "We went... putting a team together."
• Robin Pemberton [87:42]: "So boys, have at it and have a good time."
• Robin Pemberton [93:00]: "It was a two-way street because I was able now to see, peek behind the curtain."
• Kenny Wallace [105:30]: "There he is, Robin Pemberton. Are you doing anything right now?"

---

Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth look into Robin Pemberton's illustrious career in NASCAR, highlighting his technical prowess, leadership qualities, and his pivotal role in significant moments that have shaped the sport. Through personal stories and reflections, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and triumphs that define Robin's legacy in the racing world.

Transcript

[Kenny Wallace]

Did you know that Chumba casino has over 1 million active players? Get in on the fun with Chumbacasino.com where you can play over 200 online social casino games like slots, bingo and more. And that's not the only place to catch the action. Don't miss Chumba Casino at Mexico City on June 15 as a major associate on the number 45 Chumba Casino Toyota Camry Mexico City on June 15. Man, I love that racetrack. I've raced down there at Hermando Rodriguez several times and those, those races are so exciting. Chumba casino proud partner 23xi Racing. It's always fun and always free to play. With regular updates and new releases, you'll never get bored and you can play anywhere, anytime. Play for [e-mail] free welcome bonus at sign up 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweets coins. Follow Chumba Casino on social or log in every day for free daily coins. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void. We're prohibited by law. See TNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[Robin Pemberton]

In the summer. All of Oregon is our playground thanks to our incredible park system. That's why it's so cool that Oregon lottery gameplay like video lottery or cash pop helps support tons of parks projects statewide like accessible trails at Silver Falls State park or upgrades to your favorite dog park in Newburgh. It's just one way a little lottery play from many Oregonians can add up to a lot of good the Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Must be 18 or older to play.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything you need to fix your everyday vehicle up or even your hot rod. Well, you're looking at him. One of the great crew chiefs of all time. Even crew chief for my big brother, Rusty Wallace. Robin Pemberton. Robin, how you doing?

[Robin Pemberton]

I'm doing good, Kenny. Doing really good.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, there's been an APB put out on you all points bulletin. Where is Robin Pemberton been? Where have you been?

[Robin Pemberton]

Let's see. So I've been recently, the last six years on and off, I've been in Indianapolis helping Jared Andretti with his sports car program at the Andretti team. So that came to an end. We closed the doors up there in November of last year. So that's. That's. I've been up there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, we're going to kind of start backwards here. As I tell everybody, I. I did my work. Lots of notes. So when I study up on you, you kind of left NASCAR, went to IndyCar a little bit. Are. Are you still on the IndyCar appeals board?

[Robin Pemberton]

No, I haven't seen that. No. I mean, I was, but I. I think when I. I was on there before, I went to work for the Andretti Motorsports. Andretti Autosport. But I was on the appeals board for a number of years. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Man. You have a fantastic story, and let's get right to it. Okay. 68 years old. I thought it sounded pretty cool. It said you were from New York, New York, but you say you're not. So where. Where were you born?

[Robin Pemberton]

The. The little crossroads that I was, that I lived at was Malta, New York. All right? And so it was. Saratoga Springs is 10 miles away. That's where my dad and my dad grew up. That's where horse racing is big and. But the town is Boston Spa. That's the zip code, I guess. So we were in the outskirts, about 10 miles of Boston Spa. It's in the country. You know, it's. It's pretty. It's, you know, it's pretty far out. I mean. And the local track was Albany Saratoga Speedway.

[Kenny Wallace]

I've raced there. I raced there for Brett Hearn, Abby. Darn.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it was. It opened in 65. And the whole time they were building the track, the. The owners and the operators were, you know, came to my mom and dad's restaurant. We owned the restaurant on the corner of Route 9 and 67. It was called Dunster's Restaurant. It's a family restaurant. My grandparents owned it before then. And, you know, it was a great. It was perfect because we're a mile from the racetrack and got to meet all the drivers and the families back then. And then in the summertime, it was centrally located, so drivers would stay there in that area, then watch the weather and go. They could go to Utica, you know, all weekend long. They could go to Stafford Springs, Catamount. They could go to Plattsburgh, you know, Thompson, you know, all of those places in a couple of hours. So it was big. It was a. It was great. And I got to meet some great people. I mean, I've known. I've known Jerry Cook since when I was nine years old.

[Kenny Wallace]

What a legend.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hall of famer.

[Robin Pemberton]

We're still friends and. And all of that. So, you know, my drivers were that and Eddie Flemke, the Flemke family, and, you know, you know, Ron Bouchard married Eddie Flemke's sister, and they used to stay across the street at a motel back in the day. And Pete Hamilton, Dom McTavish was a great. But Pete Hamilton and I were. Were friends forever. Forever. And we always kept in touch. And, you know, it was an inspiration, you know, to just work on race cars, even though I was growing up in the. In the restaurant business and, you know, I had a. You know, I always wanted to do that and, you know, tried a couple different times to move south and. And it didn't work. My friend Steve Meal was already south. He moved in the. In the mid-70s. He was down there a few years before me, and. And he actually went to bat for me a couple different times for some jobs. And. And in 79, when. When Kyle won Daytona, you know, and the door opened up and, you know, they. They needed his. His quote to me is, it'll be okay. They just need somebody to hold the dumb end of the tape measure right now. And that would be.

[Kenny Wallace]

We're checking toe. Well, you talk about Kyle. Kyle Petty won the ARCA race, right? His very first time in a race car. Yeah, he's got one of Richard Petty's cars. Hey, let's kind of regroup right there. First of all, this is incredible information, and you and I did a lot of bonding. We just got off the Kyle Petty charity ride, so we were through New York. We went to Watkins Glen. We were up at Niagara Falls. So when we were doing this riding a couple weeks ago, did you feel. I mean, I saw Albany, Saratoga, like 300 miles, you know, as we were passing Lake Erie, when you were riding and your wife was on the back. Was. Was. Were memories going through your mind on the Cal Petty Cherry ride?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, they. They always do. You know, I mean, that. That area, it's so vast and it's beautiful up up there in. In the rural areas. And you think about going to these racetracks when you were younger, you know, Syracuse Fairgrounds. Right. And yeah, when they run a mile dirt there back in the day, and, you know, th. Those things flash in your mind as you're riding along. You know, I mean, I was. We were. You know, Malta's pretty far east. I mean, it's whatever, 45 minutes from Vermont or less, you know, so it's pretty. It's pretty far east in the state.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Okay, everybody. I call him the great Robin Pemberton. And I want to give you all some stats just to know what's up. In my opinion, one of the great crew Chiefs of all time. Crew chief for 17 years in NASCAR for Cal Petty, Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace. We're going to break all this down, but hang out with me now. 26 wins in the NASCAR Cup Series. The man you're looking at right now has given his whole life to nascar. We're gonna, we're gonna start with all the racing first. We know that you got ultra famous by becoming the NASCAR Vice President of competition and after your crew chief days. But let's continue on this journey right now. Robin, you. Right now, what we're talking about is your journey. So you leave, you leave that area of New York and help me out here. But it says 1979. You make your way down south finally, and you become a fabricator and mechanic for none other than the great Petty Enterprises, becoming a crew chief in 1983. So paint me this picture as you leave New York and you're. You're headed to Petty Enterprise.

[Robin Pemberton]

It was. I left the house with $65 in my pocket.

[Kenny Wallace]

This is great.

[Robin Pemberton]

And. And I had, I. I had this. I drove my. This blue Corvette that I owned, which is a story all on its own. We'll talk another time about that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And, you know, so I drove down. So it's like early March right now, like first week of March. It was after Daytona was over with and all that. That's when they hired people. So Steve got me the job. And literally I got. I stayed. I slept in the car one night instead of a motel. That was like $19 a night I couldn't afford. I paid one to get a shower. Stayed there one night, and then the next night I slept in my car. I didn't even tell Steve until way later on in life. And so I walked in, you know, literally a virgin, right? I had a little, little toolbox with. Might have been a set of wrenches and a hammer in it, Right. And you got guys that are in there with this massive Mac, tool boxes and stuff. And I was. I was overwhelmed. But put me. They put me right to work in a fab shop. And, you know, it was $2 and 65 cents an hour. Wow. That's what you got paid. And time and a half for overtime.

[Kenny Wallace]

$20 a day.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

100 bucks a week. Oh, my gosh.

[Robin Pemberton]

Take home was like $87. So I would. I was living on tomato soup for. For three or four cans for a dollar, depending on where I could get them. And macaroni and cheese in the box. Kraft. That was three or four for a dollar. So I would eat One can of soup for lunch, cut it in half with water, and I eat a box of macaroni and cheese at night, you know, and that was it.

[Kenny Wallace]

And then when you like modern era.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I was so happy. I was happy.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes. Yeah. And. And you don't you. Sometimes during your journey, once you became a. A crew chief for the greats and, and some of the crew members might complain. Don't you want to go listen, I Dr. Yeah. Don't you want to tell them?

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, I mean, you know, you start off on that and you're like, okay, I'm the guy who walked uphill in the snow to school and home uphill in snow to school. You know what I mean? I mean, it's like you can't even explain it to them, you know, nowadays, I mean, they get it, but it's. You did it because it was like the coolest stuff ever, you know, you want. And just. Just regress just a little bit. I would. I want to get this out. So when the cup series was doing their 68, 70 races, whatever, it was a year, right, they traveled all around up the east, up and down the east coast, right. They raced Malta in 69 and 70. Richard Petty stayed across the street in the motel, and their family ate him our restaurant every day that they were there, which was two or three days. So I met him then and I was 13 years, 12 or 13 years old, right? And I said, that guy, that's the guy I wanted. That. That's. That's the ultimate cool right there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Like looking at Elvis Presley, it's like, oh, my gosh.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. I mean, and I was. I was fond of him and then. And. And didn't hurt at all that Pete Hamilton was driving for him in 70 and won the Daytona 500. I mean, and so all this stuff kind of ties together, you know, to, you know, that and good luck.

[Kenny Wallace]

Did you and Rusty, my big brother Rusty Wallace, you were Rusty's crew chief. Did you and Rusty ever have conversations about Pete Hamilton? Because we built leaf spring, you know, USEAC race cars. And we. We built those around Pete Hamilton because he was a big leaf spring guy. You, Rusty, ever have a conversation?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah, we had some. We did. It was. It was fun. You know, it was fun because it's all this common thread is just going through life, right? I mean, it's. It's amazing. It really is amazing. To me, it is.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, we're going to stay right here, but while we're talking about big brother Rusty, I see something here. That is awesome. And I don't know if it's still true or not, but listen to this little nugget. Rusty Wallace and Robin Pemberton at the time set a record for longest relationship as driver, crew chief. 230 races. Are you aware of that?

[Robin Pemberton]

No, it's out there. I mean, I knew it was seven years, you know, but. And that's when it started out was what, 29, 30 races a year? Not 37 or eight or whatever it is. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, respond right here, everybody. That's part of the Kenny conversation. Yeah, I thought that was pretty awesome. And.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, let's. Let's go back. Keep. Keep rolling. Okay, so you come down the hill, you see Richard Petty's in your restaurant. You got Albany, Saratoga. Now, we painted the picture of why you're a racer. And Steve Mills, your buddy, he gets down south, and I always think that's funny. Robin, are you going south? I mean, that you could be in California, you could be in Missouri. And, you know, nobody says you're you going nascar. They always say, are you headed south?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I love that. I love that. That was just code for I'm going NASCAR.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Get on down Interstate 95. Okay, so you get to Petty Enterprise, and we start. We start building our resume. Were you and Kyle Petty. Did you and Kyle become friends? I just know that. And we're going to get there. But you and Kyle, you crew chief for Kyle, you won races together. When you first made it to Penny Enterprise, what was your relationship with Kyle Petty?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, we were friends, you know, and it was different. You know, Kyle was married already. Right. So it's not like. It's not like you could get together and go have a few beers or something somewhere. You know what I mean? That. That. That didn't happen. And, you know, and at that time for us and that in that era, you know, we. There was. You didn't do a lot of drinking unless you went to the beach somewhere. You know what I mean? You didn't go out every night and meet guys and play pool or have some beers, right? There was that. That wasn't in our area. I don't know, it was like in Charlotte or anywhere else. But, you know, those. Those five years that I was there, you know, we. You know, you may have gone out, if you got to know people, local people, you may have gone out one night a week or something like that, but it wasn't, you know, and Kyle was married, so he. He didn't go out with any of Us at any at all, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, we've had Kyle Petty on Kenny conversation. Obviously, you and Kyle are very close. I'm very good friends with Kyle. What do I remember about Petty Enterprise never running the bush decal because grandma and grandpa didn't approve of drinking? What is there, you know, you're talking about just relaxing every once in a while while you're at Petty. Did they look down on drinking?

[Robin Pemberton]

I, I, I don't know what their story was, but I respect it. You know what I mean? And it was, I think it was more about grandma, you know, I think, I think it was more about that than anything, you know, and, you know, I have no idea where, you know, and didn't get in their business at all about it. Right. It's a respect.

[Kenny Wallace]

I just, I'm like, you, you, you could drink beer and have a good time, but, boy, you know, at that time, Anheuser Busch was in nascar, and there were, you know, they were. There was some money there and there. And Petty Enterprises, it's like, nope, we're not running the decal. We don't drink. And Okay, I find this very heartfelt. To me, it's very emotional. Just because, man, as a kid, I mean, that STP car, when you walked in that shop and you saw that day glow orange, red, whatever you want to call it, I mean, did it, did it just hit you like a ton of bricks? Oh, my God, Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. I mean, I watched that stuff on tv.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, and most of it was a wide world of sports. A week late or something like that, you know, But, I mean, it was, to me, that was everything. You know, that car, that man, that team, that organization was, for whatever reason, at a, at a young age, it was all over me. I loved it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, 100%. I get it. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm. I feel like I'm in the car with you right now. So we just come off the Cal Petty charity ride. It's a wonderful event. When, when you look at Richard Petty today, you know, everybody else, you know, AJ Foyt's my man, but let's face it, AJ. AJ's a big man.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, and, and you look at Richard, and he is. He has stayed so skinny, and he has stayed so active, and he was on his trike with us. Here's a guy that's 87 years old, and he's riding with us.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

When you, your, your time around Richard, how is he able to. Is he a freak? Of nature. What is your opinion? What is the deal with Richard Petty?

[Robin Pemberton]

I'll tell you, if you get down to the, if you get down to the nitty gritty, as we all know, you know, if you're in the know, he. He gets his sleep when he needs to, right? When, I mean, he gets his. He gets his nap in the afternoon, so he has plenty of energy. Energy stored up when.

[Kenny Wallace]

Gotcha.

[Robin Pemberton]

When it's time to show. But yeah, he's, He's. I'll tell you, when we used to beat up and down the road and I like, I like to drive because at least I got a seat up front, right? Plus, I was low man on the totem pole. You were in those days, you drove everywhere. You drove everywhere. You, you got. If you're going to Michigan and they started on. Generally started on Thursday in those days. Thursday, you know, the weekend. You would drive up on Wednesday and you get in the van and I'd be driving. Richard would be third row. Remember those old comfort coach vans with the raised roof and the TVs there?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes, yes.

[Robin Pemberton]

I'd be going up the highway and out of the clear blue, the man's got his hat over his head, like, you know, in the third row. Asleep, you would assume. And you'd be cruising along and you'd be going up this rise. He goes, you see that up there? And it's like, what the what? It's a cop sitting at the top of the hill. It's like, I, I wasn't going to see it for another hundred yards. And he's in, you know, he's in the cheap seats, right? And he, and he says something. This happened more than once, I can tell you that. And, yeah, you know, he's just that guy.

[Kenny Wallace]

He's just, he's aware.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's for sure.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, he's aware. You know, I tell Kyle all the time, I said, man, I'm afraid of your dad. And Kyle, Kyle Petty would say, I'm afraid of my dad too. I mean, I mean, Richard Petty, he's bigger than life. And I'm riding my trike with my wife, and I look in my mirror and Richard's behind me. That, that day, I think it was to Wednesday. And I'm. I'm thinking, I'm gonna, I'm gonna check on Richard's awareness, you know, there. You know how our line on the Cal Petty charity, right? It would. Yo, yo. And you know, he'd come up on me, he'd slow down. I mean, I just. But but you paint a good picture. The reason Richard, he's got his body tempered. He knows when to sleep. He's ready to go. That's good information, Robin. Thank you. He gets his sleep.

[Robin Pemberton]

I'm trying to be just like him. I try to take my nap every day around 3:30 or something.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes. Hey, me too. Hey, I took a nap at 3 o' clock on Saturday and then I won a good big race because I was ready.

[Robin Pemberton]

I'm telling you, there's something there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, it's Dale Jr. Did you know that we've got brand new merch from our star stripes and beers collection available now? We've got tanks to tees, beach towels and more just in time for summer. Check it all out at shop.dirtymomedia.com dreaming of a modern oasis. At AllModern we offer the best of modern furniture and decor all in one place. Hand vetted for quality and delivered for free in days. Discover outdoor dining, sets, sofas and more in every style of modern from Scandi to mid century. That's modern made simple.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Shop [e-mail] At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust amica Auto insurance. Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, you're down at Petty Enterprises. Man, that was some good stuff right there. Actually. Really good. So he, his nickname, Richard Petty's nickname is the King because he won everything. He was the king. When you're, when you're in Petty Enterprises and you're constantly winning, was winning the norm? I mean like if you didn't win, paint that picture for me about just always winning or, or was it the time Richard wasn't winning all the time. When did you come in?

[Robin Pemberton]

I mean I was in. So, so that year, the first year there, Richard won his last championship.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'll be darn.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, lucky. So they won. Yeah, they won more races after that. But, but nonetheless, now we're, we're on the downhill swing and we're. And I think you know, they're trying to build a brand with, with Kyle and, and stuff like that. So it's like handing things off.

[Kenny Wallace]

But yeah, good stuff.

[Robin Pemberton]

He did what he, he raced to what, 80, 89? No, no, 91, something like that.

[Kenny Wallace]

When, when Jeff Gordon came in.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

So that, you know, Jeff Gordon runs Atlanta. Richard Rex out on the front straightaway. That was the big thing, you know, what a memory. Jeff Gordon comes in his first race as Atlanta, and that was Richard's last race.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Okay. So comes a time where Jack, Jack Roush, I mean, big name. Big name from the automotive world, Jack Roush says, I'm gonna start a. A NASCAR team.

[Robin Pemberton]

So you. That was, that was, that was after my stint at die Guard. Oh, Butch Mock. I was at. I was at Butch Mocks and Rob and, And Bob Rohillis in 84. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay.

[Robin Pemberton]

And then 85 went to die Guard. You know, Bobby was there, Greg Sachs was there. Eventually Willie T. Ribs was there. I mean, and it's. It just went. It was just very. It was not managed its best. And then that was. That was the end of it. And you know, and to try to. So at the end of Petty Enterprises, at the end of 83, when Richard was getting ready to remember, he. He went and drove curbs car.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right, right.

[Robin Pemberton]

But the little, little snippet in between that is. So we, we knew he was leaving, and so we had a good. I had a great relationship with him. So now I told him, I said, look, at the end of the year, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to go work for Butch and Bob.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Richard's leaving at this time. Did it feel like the world's falling apart? Petty Enterprises, Richard Petty's.

[Robin Pemberton]

It was a little disjointed, you know, Richard at. That's the time you. I don't, I don't know if you remember, we were at some banquet somewhere, this, that and the other. And Rick Hendrick made a comment to Richard jokingly, you know, about. He. About not driving for Rick. They were negotiating. The best I can recall, Richard and, and, and Rick were talking about Richard going over there in 84.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right? So you kind of weave this together. I'm. I'm leaving and going to Butch and Bob.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And so we're in Charlotte, October of 83, and. And he grabs me and like I said, we, we always had a really good relationship. Always did. Always well. And he grabs me, puts his arm around me and whispers in my ear. He's like, you think them boys would like me to drive their car? I said, well, I can see. So at the end of the night, we're all. We're all done, whatever. I go find Butch. And I said, hey, man. I said, you know, the king's talking to rick, but Hendrik, Mr. Hendrik, but I don't know what's going on. And he wanted to know if you, maybe you guys would entertain the thought of having him drive. And oh, all hell broke loose. They were talking, you know, Mike Curb was involved. Anyways, we actually went to Daytona and tested. So the car that the speedway car was built in Petty Enterprises. So as guy named Warren Prout was the head of building and Richie bars and myself. So 83. So the car went over to Butch and Bob's Raymock and, and Buddy Parrott was going to be the crew chief and we tested and like, this is going to be great. I'm changing springs with them. I'm learning what I can learn. And then something happened, whatever happened in negotiations and it, and it went south with Raymond and then they took the team and that was Mike Curb's team that they did in Kannapolis with the King. But it was going to be Raymock first, right. And so that thing then and that year we had a bunch of different drivers and this, that and the other. And then the year after I went to die guard and that was, that was another fiasco. And then. So, so now fast forward to get to your Roush days. Yeah, I'm, I'm mowing the yard. It's Sunday afternoon. We must erase Saturday obviously somewhere. And I got a push mower, one of them cool push mowers that goes by itself. Well, I'm so mad, I'm not even letting it go by itself. I'm just.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're pushing it.

[Robin Pemberton]

I said, I said, look, just let me mow. Just leave me alone. You know, it's like a small house, but had three quarter acre yard, so it was plenty to mow. She comes out, she yells out, hey, telephone call. I said, what did you not understand? No, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to anybody. Leave me alone. Leave me alone. She goes back in and start pushing again. This, that and the other. She comes back out, she goes, no, this guy really needs to talk to you. And I was like, okay. She said, it's a friend of Paul Giltman now. Do you remember? Paul was the Ford engineer. He helped, he, he was at Dygard and helped me. He helped me at Sabco later on. He did a bunch of stuff, but he was a good, good race race engineer. And she said, it's a friend of Paul's. And Paul told him to call you. I said, well, who the, who is it? This is his guy is. His name's Jack something. Jack Roush or whatever. I go, oh, I mean, hold on I said, I'm going drag racing. Maybe. I don't know, I gotta get out of this. So anyways, I go get the call and he says, you know, Jack, you know, this, that and the other. I'm gonna, I'm trying to put a team together. Got your number and you know, I like to meet with you. Yeah, okay. And he's like, I'm, I'll give you a call, we'll set up something. So he set up a meeting in. And this is like the second week of August at Charlotte Airport at the Holiday Inn there, which is now something else. And so, okay, so that day, roll up in there and whatever, and I get out and there's Stan, Steve, Neal. Okay. I said, what are you doing here? He said, well, Jack Raush called. I said, well, he called me too. So Jack didn't really know that him and I were friends, let alone friends since we were like 13 years old. Right. So we go in there and, and so we interviewed Jack, I think a little bit, and he interviewed us.

[Kenny Wallace]

Do you had enough money? Do you know what you're getting into?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. And so he, we did all that talking and you know, and, and so we went, we went our separate rate ways and Jack's, you know, Jack said he's, you know, he'll get back with us. And so anyways, so we were going to the next race or something like that a week after it was Bristol and so that was the night race. So Thursday, remember Thursday night Thunder, right. Dave Spain and a little bit of news or something like that. When? Yeah, Thursday night, whatever.

[Kenny Wallace]

Big show.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. So somewhere on there he said, Jack Roush is going cup racing. I have not seen it, but I got the wrath of it is going, going NASCAR cup racing and putting a team together. And you know, he's, he's talking, you know, Robin Pemberton and, and you know, Steve Meal and Robin Pemberton and blah, blah, blah. I didn't hear it. I didn't know. I went to, I went to the racetrack the next morning, fat, dumb and happy and like ain't nobody talking to me. So finally, during the day sometime, it's like, okay, we're going through it. Bob Raheeli, he unleashed everything on me. He mad, ungrateful self. I said, what are you talking, you know, going to work for Jack Roush. And I said, holy said, who told you that? He said it was on the freaking tv. Well, whether it was or it wasn't, some of it was. He, you know, whatever. So we ran a race and after the race. He's like, all right, tonight was your last night. You're done. It's like, no, this isn't good, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you're not right.

[Robin Pemberton]

I had nothing. Right. I think Lisa might have been pregnant at the time. I don't even know. And. And I go home, it's like, okay, now I know where I'm going to work. There was no shop. There was. We. We. Steve. Steve and his wife Lisa, they found a building in Liberty, North Carolina. It was old furniture warehouse. Not. Wasn't even. Wasn't old. It was just a. Like, I don't know, 10,000 square foot. It had hardly no electricity in it. Had a bathroom in it. And that's where we started. And we started that, like, week after that. Like, he was there a week before me, but it was the last week, August or something. I got there and I was driving 96 miles each way home every day. Did it for. Did it for 16 months. And we work seven. We work seven days a week for 16 months. We took. We. We. We worked a half a day on Thanksgiving and we took Christmas off and then worked again and then got Thanksgiving off the next year. So in. In 16 months, we had like three and a half days off.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. What you. What you just told me was like a tornado just ripped right through my brain.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And here's why. I want to go back and summarize what you just told me to the most ground shaking things in NASCAR history. You just explained in 10 minutes, Richard Petty leaves Petty Enterprises, goes to Curb, which is unbelievable. He wins Daytona for Kirby wins Dover.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's like, what. How does you know who owns Petty Enterprise? How does Richard Petty leave his own company? Did Lee on it? I mean, okay, that's another story. And then all of a sudden, Steve Meal and you start Roush Racing. Literally, Steve finds the building, and it's you and him like blood brothers. Third. You remember him from 13. So right there, two. You're a Hall of Famer. You're a Hall of Famer. You are because you move. No, you really are.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I'm going today to visit some people, but I'm not a Hall of Famer.

[Kenny Wallace]

I mean, when. When people listen to this, you were there for the most pivotal PO moments in NASCAR history. And I just pointed them out. I think one thing that amazes me, how smart you became from coming from the restaurant business to seeing your hero, to driving him around to Jack Roush going, I need to get a hold of this Robin Pemberton.

[Robin Pemberton]

Where.

[Kenny Wallace]

Where did these Mechanical skills come from. I mean, you had a restaurant. Where did you learn this so quick?

[Robin Pemberton]

I don't know. I mean, yo is. It was hell. I was like everybody else. You, you, you took your bicycles apart and put them back together.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, that was me.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right? You put copper forks, bars and banana seeds. Right? I, I don't know. You know, I always enjoyed it, you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Know, so this is one of these deals where we're going to go three hours, so we're not going to skip stuff, but we, we're gonna, we're gonna gloss over it. Okay. So Roush racing becomes legendary. And that's all you can say there, that it's just unbelievable. So you and Steve me built Roush racing. Literally got its first building and today they created some of the greatest race car drivers in NASCAR history. So you get Roush racing going and boy, this is kind of where I come in. I don't really come in here, but this is what I remember. So we got this, we got this very wealthy man from Cuba, Felix Sabatas. Felix Sabata starts a team called Sabco S A, B, C, O, C, O, S A, B, C or Sabco Racing. So you eventually go to Sabco Racing. And I remember you and Kyle lighting the world on fire. Tell me about your time at Sapco with Kyle Petty as the driver.

[Robin Pemberton]

It was, it was, it was really good and it was fun. You know, it was, you know, when I got there, it was, you know, Gary had just left and they, they got to the point where, and it happens where they weren't Gary Nelson. Gary Nelson. And they, they weren't getting along that well. And so, you know, he had an opportunity to go to NASCAR to be their competition director. And so that, that. So this is the second time I followed Gary. Right? First time was Geiger ready to interrupt.

[Kenny Wallace]

You and go, okay, what was it about Sabko? Yeah, remember, everybody, listen up. Later on, that man right there ends up going to nascar. Okay, let's stay at Sabbath.

[Robin Pemberton]

So, so we started, you know, and, and we would go test and you could. There was a. Kyle's demeanor was. It wasn't relaxed in the car. It was, it was, it was nervous. Not nervous, but it wasn't as relaxed as what I would want him to be. Right. And I remember we were at a test somewhere and, and you know, we, and I. He comes in, take the window net down, he's holding the wheels, looking forward and talking to him about the car. And, and I said to him, I said, look, I said, you're gonna have to relax. Relax. And what I'm telling you is you, you drive the car with your fingertips. Don't have some death grip on this thing like you're trying to make it do something it's not going to do. I said, tell us what it's doing and we're going to work on a car and you just chill out. No, I'm not. Nobody cares, right? Just be easy on it. And I said, just, you know, but doesn't do something right. You don't have an answer. It doesn't matter to me. We'll go run it again. We'll go try it again or whatever. We developed this relationship where I wasn't going to yell at him for anything. And I. And I think there was a time that maybe somebody was that way. And that's not Kyle's personality at all. Right? He's a, he's a low, lower key, fun loving guy, but he's, he's, he's, you know, more gentle than that. And so we developed a really good relationship and we worked on our cars really hard. We, you know, we, we won some races. Didn't win a lot, but we won races. You know, that one race at Rockingham were. I don't know what we. What's a 492 laps? We led 480 of them or something like that.

[Kenny Wallace]

That is badass.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, it was, it was one of them. We just had that stuff going on. You know, we finished in top five in points two years in a row. And I don't think he's been in the top 15 before then, you know, had just, just solid, solid runs, good feedback, nothing insane on my part. You know what I mean? Things like that.

[Kenny Wallace]

I got to get this off my chest because Kyle will hear about this. You know, I grew up with my dad, Russ Wallace, and my dad always wanted to know why, if, when I made it down south and I run second at Richmond to Mark Martin, my dad would say, how come you could not run Mark Martin? I'm like, well, I was pushing dad. The car was tight in the middle of the corner, and my dad would say, why? Because my dad won everything.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Your. Your dad was a driver? He was a shoe.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. And so then you bring Rusty, and then Rusty. I love my brother more than anything, but he started my team. And then Rusty couldn't figure out why I wasn't as good as him, and he would get frustrated with me. So by the time you got Kyle, I'm sure Richard Petty, the great Richard Petty, Just couldn't figure out why Kyle wasn't great. And. And it makes it hard on us, you know, because not everybody's the greatest, so. I really like that story, Robin, and I want to. I want to thank you on behalf of me. Being a driver, it's really nice to have a crew chief go. Look, calm down. It's all good.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I guarantee you that's one reason you and Kyle are such great friends right now. Because. Yeah, you're probably the medicine. He needed it at that time.

[Robin Pemberton]

That time. Yeah. It was good.

[Kenny Wallace]

I understand that. You know, why aren't you as good as me? You know, I'm great. Why aren't you great? Because I went through that with Rusty. Kyle went through that with Richard, and great job. So tell that story, and then we'll leave Sapco. Tell that. That great story that you. You told on the Cal Petty charity ride. So you guys win. Watkins, Glenn. But there was an incredible test about the front and. Tell that story. How you guys tell how you won.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. So we were up there testing, and. And it was good. We're. You know, but he was. He was like, look, going up through the S's. If I can run, I just need to. If I can just mat it and run wide open through there, I'm. That's. That'll fix everything else that. Just get it through there. It's like, okay, golly. So I said, let me. Yeah. Oh. Oh, that's all you need? Sure.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me get you a new car.

[Robin Pemberton]

Let me. Let me unhook two. Two of the four barrels. Right. You know what I mean? So the. So they were putting garage doors in the. In the. That long. The long garage building there. There's boxes all over this set and the other. And I said, I get a razor knife and a long, straight edge. And you remember the. You know, the noses on the Pontiacs, they come down. And then the bottom was like that. It was like four inches stuck out. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

There was a lot going on.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Had that big dip in there.

[Robin Pemberton]

And then I went, you know, after watching all the races, and you. You know, you're looking at aerodynamics or different things. So I cut strips of cardboard 4 inches wide that went all around the front of the car, all around the whole. At the lower 4 inches. So I put two strips on there, and I tape them on with cardboard, with tape and duct tape, and it made it go out a quarter inch aside or something like that. We're testing out a quarter inch all the way around, quarter inch forward, quarter inch on the side he went out and run goes. Man, I. I don't know. I. I think it's better. All right. More cardboard. I get three this time or two this time. And I put it on again. He's like, it's. It's better. It actually is better. I just keep putting the stuff on there. Finally, I wind up with 2 inches thick of cardboard around the whole thing. The 2 inches wide on, the 2 inches wider out front, everything. So it was a total of 4 inches wide. 4 freaking inches.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I know it's bigger.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh. And I. I gave up because I thought I, you know, just. Just give up right there. Right. So he said, I can run wide open, so. All right. We finished our task, made all of our other adjustments and stuff around the car. Got pretty good. Good enough that he could push the clutch in and coast through the. The. The kink in the back. He didn't even have to downshift or break, you know, he just pushed a clutch in, not even downshift. That kind of stuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, my Lord, what a blessing.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, that's so.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Anyway, so we get home, and they said, okay, now what are you gonna do? So I called this place. It was Harry's Glass in Jacksonville, Florida, or whatever. So my brothers Ryan and Roman were working for me at the time. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I was. I always love to have those guys. They're just so good.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I love you.

[Robin Pemberton]

I said. I said, all right, this is what we're going to do. We. We cut the nose off from the hood seam all the way down the fenders all the way, you know, then the whole bottom. And I took it off and I said, roman, get in the van. Take this thing. Harry's Glass. I already called because I knew somebody there. Anyways, whatever, you know, you made an appointment. He. He dropped that thing off. They bondoed on it. They got it off. Cool. This, that and the other. Took a splash off of it. Molded a nose off of it. Wow.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Robin Pemberton]

And then we had it back in a week. Right. This is insane.

[Kenny Wallace]

Did you swear him to the secrecy?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You swear Harry's Glass to secrecy?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So it was. So we put it on, dressed everything up, and it was nice because, you know, it was normal thickness everywhere. Didn't look, but real cobbled up. And we put it on. So we go to the track and so we had. We had. Grant. It used to say Grand Prix, two big names on the front. So we just put G with the dash and pre prix on it. Yeah. And kept it because of the Brake ducts and whatever else. And whatever. So some people complain that we must have narrowed the nose up because you couldn't fit the whole Grand Prix on there. So whoever the tech guy was at the time, they knew the number and everything's round in those days. You couldn't get a good. Didn't know where to pull a tape measure from. So a couple guys come and they went and pulled the tape measure from it. And I said, what's going on? We're just checking to see if, you know, you've narrowed the nose up at all. No, it's obvious this thing's not been narrowed up. And off they go. And I was like, holy cow. They just, yeah, this is a great heist right here.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, this is why you and Gary Nelson end up going to work for nascar.

[Robin Pemberton]

I don't know.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes, it's true. I mean, in reality, it's funny. Right?

[Robin Pemberton]

So anyways, so we wound up running and, you know, we were, you know, we were pretty good. You know, we got, we got a good. Got a decent caution, but we were good there two years in a row. I mean, we're really good, you know. And so you win the race and you celebrate and you come home.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Is it. Isn't what you just said that. That is a. Quickly. That reminds me, this has nothing to do with what we're. It has everything to do with what we're talking about. You said you won the race and you come home. And I've said this before, I'm going to repeat it, but you never heard it. I was talking to Kyle Busch in the RV parking lot at Bristol, and I said, why, what's the deal? We're just talking. He goes, you know what he says? I win these cup races at 5 o' clock and by 11 o' clock I'm bummed out because it's over. In, in life, you know, if you don't celebrate those wins, you know, and you and I grew up rough. You and I grew up rough, you'd win the Daytona 500. And the next day at noon, we're at Rockingham, you know, in our minds. And I don't know why competitors, why we're so bad on each other, but just listening to you say we won the race and went home, but you work so hard to win that race. Yeah, we're our own worst enemy. And I don't know winners do that. And I don't know about all that. I get it. I totally get it. But yeah, just you saying that struck a nerve with Me. You win the race, you go home. You want?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

One of the biggest races in America, right? Cup is the highest form of motorsports. There's. It's just that we're involved in it. We don't really realize how big it is. Man, great job. And that's where those engineering skills come from. You. And little by little, we're peeling it away. How you basic.

[Robin Pemberton]

It's just basic working hard, common sense stuff. You know, you're smart. The. The. The other big thing that we did that year, the next year, I guess it was that year. I can't remember when we sat on the pole for the Daytona 500.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's big.

[Robin Pemberton]

That was monster. That is the only trophy I ever. I was ever given, ever. I don't have a trophy from any wins or anything like that. Not a plaque, a ribbon or whatever, but I've got that.

[Kenny Wallace]

And that car had a weird noise.

[Robin Pemberton]

Wow. What's that?

[Kenny Wallace]

That car. You sat on a pole with it. Strange noise.

[Robin Pemberton]

I. We did that car. We built the body on that car at Talladega at the racetrack.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's incredible.

[Robin Pemberton]

We. We. I've been in the wind tunnel a bunch, and I started looking at ride heights before. People really looked at a lot of ride heights, and I started looking at the drag numbers on D Rate, a lot of travel, stuff like that. And it's like, holy cow. So I would make a spring change at Talladega and it travel more, go fast and knock the body off. So I made a body change to go with the spring change. And I did it again and again and again. And that's where the car, if you were there, had really high wheel arches in it. The back. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wheel openings.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, it's huge. And we unloaded that car, and people come by laughing. What, Felix make you bring your Martinsville car? God.

[Kenny Wallace]

Watch this, buddy.

[Robin Pemberton]

Well, it was so good. We. We ran with a small restrictor plate on our own, like, that's it. So we would go out and run, and we would come into the garage and Steve Peterson. Remember Steve? God rest.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

He'd be standing at the front of the car and go, open the hood, take the carburetor off. He'd take the plate and he'd look at it and he'd go shake his head because the gauge wouldn't go in the plate. It was small by like 30 thou or 20 thou or something.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's awesome.

[Robin Pemberton]

Put it back. We go out and run. Run this, that, and the other. When we come back in, we blast the lap. We come Back in, Steve standing there, he did it like four times until he finally realized it was, you know, wasting his time. And we, that thing, it was car hauled ass, you know, and we had a, we had an issue on a few, on a, on a gas stop and the fuel guy didn't get it full. We had to stop under green. We, we, we literally made up a lap under green at Daytona and coming up through there. And that's when Bobby Hillen and somebody else got together and took us out, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

But that's why Kyle was so mad. He knew he was gonna win the Daytona fight.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, we didn't, we didn't even, we weren't even fretting, right? That thing was, it was as good as Bill Elliott at Talladega that time, right? I mean, he smoked the field. I mean, we felt that good about it. We really did. And you know, yo's, you always have those that get away. That one got away. That one hurt.

[Kenny Wallace]

I remember when I made it down south and Big brother had me down there and we were always going to Eight Mile Road, wherever it was in Detroit. And you know, wind tunnel. Wind tunnel, wind tunnel. You, you recognized. You know, what I'm learning here is you were really good at understanding the wind tunnel, reading the numbers, looking at travel. Would you, would you say that was your specialty? Aerodynamics?

[Robin Pemberton]

I enjoyed it, yeah. You know, I wasn't special at anything, but I enjoyed a lot of it. And I was obsessed with it, to be honest with you. You, you know, we especially, especially speedway stuff because, you know, the, the, you could do a little stuff that was hidden, that was asymmetric on the car that was good for, you know, yaw numbers and lower drag and stuff like that. And you know, and, and I just, I enjoyed it. You know, I, I didn't enjoy making the cars that when they were started to really make them banana shaped the wrong way. And, and that, that, that didn't appeal to me. And, and some of it got away from me as, But I, I didn't like the way the cars looked that way. You know, I tried to be a little bit cooler about it, but sometimes, you know, it was, it was just, it was crazy on, on what people could get away with.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Every day our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Robin Pemberton]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance. Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of at Amica.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

[Commercial Speaker]

At rxbar, they believe in simple nutrition without the bs. That's why they said no to artificial ingredients and yes to deliver intentional, transparent nutrition. Try their original 12 gram protein bar, the nut butter and oat bar, or Minis RXBar, the proud sponsor of no BS. Use code RXBar on RXBar.com for 25% off, subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers. See rxbar.com for full details and limitations.

[Kenny Wallace]

We have an issue. We're in an hour, which is great.

[Robin Pemberton]

When's the last time we did not have an issue with something? Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. You know, everybody says, quit trying to cut your. Your deals too short. Then I have some people say, they're so long, I'm like, Joe Rogan's three hours. Yeah, we're trying to. We're trying to do Robin Pemberton's whole life in one hour. Not gonna happen. All right, so that's awesome. Great highlights at each team. You start Roush Racing, you make Kyle happy. You. You guys get going. You're fast. And this is where I come in. You go. You go to work for arguably the greatest race car owner in the history of motorsports. To this day, I would debate with people that there's a bigger car owner in the world.

[Robin Pemberton]

Worldwide.

[Kenny Wallace]

Worldwide. I mean, we're talking Ferrari, and, you know, you name it. Roger Penske, Penske Racing. 20 Indianapolis 500 wins. He's won the last three cup championships. Roger Penske. I mean, we know Rick Hendrick is a juggernaut. We know Rick's great. But, I mean, when you talk Roger Penske, you're talking history. You're talking Mark Donahue. So you get the Penske Racing, and your driver is my big brother, Rusty Wallace. Now. Now you've come up against a firestorm. Rusty's jacked up on Sundrop. He's. He's checking shot graphs. You guys are cutting noses off before you load the car up. Tell me about this time. Now, you guys have a lot of success.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Tell me about your time with. With Rusty Wallace.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, we had. We had. It wasn't without its discussions, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, it's intense.

[Robin Pemberton]

It's, you know, very intense when I got there. So I'm looking at this. This facility, and everything's beautiful. I'm like, you know, this is. This is great. You Know, I've been with good people, good places, and I get looking around, first thing I see is a rack of 30 different radiators on the wall in a transportation department back there outside where Earl's used to park his truck. And I'm looking, it's like, what is that? Why is that? Like that? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? And then we get looking at the cars, and this car was a Hopkins car. This car was a Laughlin car. This car had high door bars. This one was low door bars. This one had a different cross member in the front. This one is like, how do you make rhyme or reason to that, right? You know, this one couldn't fit dual master cylinders, and it had a single master cylinder on. It's like, Jesus sakes. So the first over engineered well, or it could have been the hot trick of the day. You get your ass waxed by somebody and go, what kind of cars you got? Oh, go get one. I don't know if that happened, but it was a lot of different stuff. So I started the chassis shop, had three guys, and I said, all right, we're going to do this thing, and first off, we're going to try to get the cars, you know, get everything calmed down, get it where, you know, your spare car was just like the car you were racing. If you wrecked it, this, that, the other. So getting that organized was a big. Was a big feat. And. But it was. Don supported it, which was great. And, you know, every, you know, then you had short track radiators and super speedway radiators and intermediate and all had the same fittings in them and not a bunch of different stuff. So, you know, we worked hard on. On that. And then, you know, we worked hard on identifying best cars, wind tunnel numbers. And, you know, you would look at wind tunnel sheets and go, okay. And then you'd look at the setup in the. In the tunnel, and it's like, why is every, you know, you know, the. The frame heights used to be, you know, 4, 5, 5, and 6 or something like that, whatever. And they were all over the place. Like, why is this different? And it was like, well, when you run this at Atlanta, you're inspecting a car near the wash pit, and then that way, the quarter panel, if you get it in the right spot, the quarter panel can be higher. So when we go to the wind tunnel, we run that car half inch high in the right rear, and it's like, well, none of the numbers even match to me. It was. It was very difficult at the time. And so we Just tried to get it better organized and you know, maybe it took some of the advantage out of some trickery, but we were more, we were more consistent, right? The cars were more consistent. And I wanted it to be where Rusty would get in a car and not say, oh, this is such and such and you know, whatever, get that part of it behind us, you know, so that was a big feat. And you know, we, we did pretty good. We wound up being able to work on the cars and you know, we had, we had, we won every year and, and that one year we had a really good year. We sat on a lot of poles And I think 10, five races or four or five races in there. It's good.

[Kenny Wallace]

One of my favorite things, and I don't know if you were part of this or not, but you know, I learned so much from my big brother, Rusty. It is true. Rusty is, is better than Mike and myself at racing. Rusty was always a gadgeteer. I can remember if, if a watch would break, my mom would say, here, Rusty, fix this watch. Rusty was a gadgeteer. He could, he could fix things.

[Robin Pemberton]

So Bobby Allison were the same, him and Bobby. Yeah, same thing. I, I was Bobby.

[Kenny Wallace]

Bobby taught us how to check, bump, steer with the back of a toolbox. You know, we didn't, we didn't. We just took a tape measure and we take it, we take a toolbox and we, we put it right up against that right front. And Bobby said, okay, we got rubber bushings on the inner, inner lower a frame. So we gotta, you know. Yes. But oh my God, I mean, you're, you're like family right now because that is so true. Bobby Adelson taught Rusty. Dick Trickle taught Rusty. Yeah, Rusty. Rusty was smart to talk to the right people and gain quick knowledge. So one, one thing that I thought was awesome and straighten me out, I'm going to say this and then you say yes or no. We'd go to Bristol and everybody raised their cars up because the cross members would hit. And Rusty told me, no, we're going to cut the cross member off and we're going to raise the motor up because the motor only weighed 500 pounds. The car was 3,600 pounds or whatever.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Were you there during that time?

[Robin Pemberton]

Were you guys not. That was version one. Version two was we're going to cut the cross member out. We're going to run a smaller oil pan and we run a 10 inch flywheel and we leave the motor. We, we ran the engine low. At Bristol, we could. You redesigned the motor yeah, we. We. Yeah, we had a small. We had a hell. The. The transmission would drag before and the transmission was lower than the belt. Belt bellhousing and the oil pan. So when we. When we went there the last. The last few years, we had the best. We had great cars. And I took. We took a new car there almost every race. Every other race for him.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Just build a new car. But those cars with the low motor, you'd open the hood and you could put that much air cleaner in them. I mean, it was great.

[Kenny Wallace]

Robin, Rusty and I know this is how you guys did it, and I want you to respond to this. Rusty said to me, everybody knew they were going to wreck at Bristol, so they take their worst equipment.

[Robin Pemberton]

Exactly right.

[Kenny Wallace]

He. I knew I was going to win. I was taking my very best.

[Robin Pemberton]

We'd build new stuff. We would build new stuff and take it.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's awesome.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah. The year when. When. At the. At the. When what's his name? He came to. Geez, I'm having a.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's okay.

[Robin Pemberton]

He came to be our driving part. Ryan Newman.

[Kenny Wallace]

Ryan Newman.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. When Ryan Newman came his first season, every car that he had that I gave those guys or that we did, our team said, here, this is good start. Either set on a pole or won a race or was brand new. That's how he started.

[Kenny Wallace]

You developed it all. Yeah. You made that.

[Robin Pemberton]

Said we gave it to him after we've sat on a polar winner race.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. That's awesome.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it was pretty good.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, I'm on. On track here, but one thing that really, you know, some things hit people differently. I will never forget you and big brother Rusty wallace Celebrating your 40th birthday party together. You. You guys were two peas in a pod. You and Rusty at that time were super tight.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it was brutal.

[Kenny Wallace]

But. But can you believe that you were only 40 and that was. I mean, you guys were kicking ass and taking names. That was a good night. I was there.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. A lot of people were there. I can't believe the people that came in.

[Kenny Wallace]

I think that affected Rusty. I think I remember Rusty saying he didn't like being 40 at that moment. Yeah, he just. I'm not saying he had a time with it. He. He recognized it at 40.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, so we have to leave now. Your crew chief days. Let's just say this. You were a great crew chief. 26 wins. You. You did it all. I want to ask this before I move on. What. And I know this is going to be hard, but during your crew chief days, give me two or three things just go, 1, 2, 3. That stand out. It could be from. It could be from Petty Enterprises. It could be from Roush, it could be from Sepco. What? What? You look back and you smile. Was it the nose wider at Watkins Glen? Was it you and Rusty making these rotating parts lighter and smaller?

[Robin Pemberton]

What do you.

[Kenny Wallace]

What do you look back on and you smile as a crew chief?

[Robin Pemberton]

I don't know. You know, I. I think Mark Martin's first win.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, big, big.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, I mean, Mouse racing. Yeah. You know, just being at Petty Enterprises and. And with those people, you know, every year they still have a Christmas party for employees, and we all go.

[Kenny Wallace]

Richie Barr was rich.

[Robin Pemberton]

Bars was there.

[Kenny Wallace]

What a name. What a name.

[Robin Pemberton]

He was brutal. He's.

[Kenny Wallace]

Was he.

[Robin Pemberton]

He's the only man that made me cry, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, they say, don't.

[Robin Pemberton]

He was hard on me. They would say, he should have been.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well, don't get close to your heroes.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

They'll disappoint you. That's true.

[Robin Pemberton]

And so we had. I. I have so many good memories. You know, it's small and large and being out with Felix and learning about unlucky $50 bills. One night when. When we were in Atlanta, made us all take them out of our pocket, tore them up in little pieces and threw them in the ashtray. I said, well, here's this rich dude. I just give him $300 in 50s. Tommy Kendall was with us because Tommy used to go with us sometimes, road racing and stuff. Tommy, myself, Felix, might have been Kyle. Tommy didn't have 50s. He didn't even have 20s. So Felix tore them all up and threw him in the ashtray in the bar while we weren't looking. Kendall pick him up, ashtray up, and put the whole thing in his pocket. But I'm thinking, here's this rich. There's this millionaire dude. He's going to take my money and he's going to give me a $500 bill in exchange. Hell, no. We just lost our money. He just tore them up because they're unlucky. The next day at the racetrack, Tommy comes with all these 50s all taped up. He's got a guy at the bank that's going to give him new money for him, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, okay, hold on. What. What was it? Okay, you know, today we got this social media, and I'm on it as much as anybody, but those days were like Studio 54. It was sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I mean, but life in nascar, there was Too much money. All the sponsors, all the sponsors tied. Anheuser Busch, you know, Miller, Brun, everybody, they were.

[Robin Pemberton]

They were Reynolds. What R.J. reynolds did every. Every week at the racetrack, R.J. reynolds would take an entire team out for dinner. And each of the nights, somewhere in there, I mean, it would spend thousands of dollars. Thousands every night, just being there, just taking people out. You know, they even did.

[Kenny Wallace]

I think Time magazine did article on the explosion of nascar.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

There's all the money in the world you needed. Felix was, you know, him and George Shin, they own part of a basketball team.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, Felix, he owned the, you know, the Charlotte Checkers. Right. We went to hockey games. Right. You were driving there then. Yeah, right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, it was. It was a glorious time.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes.

[Kenny Wallace]

In nascar. I. I don't know if we'll ever see those. It's kind of like. Was it CBGB there in. In New York? You know, if you sang, you went there, you went to that little bar, and you went to Studio 54. New York was rocking. And I think at the same time, now that we look back, those days in NASCAR were unbelievable. Just, yeah, the money just. Yeah, it was. The ratio was you had more money than what sponsor you want. People were begging to be sponsors. Can I sponsor your car? Squirty came to me. They knocked on the front door of my house. Knock, knock. Can we sponsor your car? I'm like, let me think about it. You know, people say, how did your career last so long?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I said, I sold product, man, so I could drive the car.

[Robin Pemberton]

Well, and it paid off for him. Right? When you're building your house, you asked for square D. You know, when I was building my shop, I said, well, you know, got square.

[Kenny Wallace]

Herman's got square D. Yeah, I gotta have it, too. Yeah, There was a. There was a poster out there of Dale Earnhardt, Senior, Rusty, Jimmy Spencer, all of us, because my sponsor was putting electric in your guys's garages, you know, and, man, that's a great story. Thanks for telling that. When you're tearing up 50 bills, you know, life is good because you think that they're bad luck.

[Robin Pemberton]

But I still. I lost. I lost them. I lost six fifty dollar bills.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, that's just. That's just. Man, that's. That was. Those days. I mean, that was incredible. Okay, deep breath. All right, We. We're. We're leaving. And my notes. Now straighten me out. You become the field manager for Ford Racing, then you become the vice president of competition.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, now, let me just say this.

[Robin Pemberton]

So you Missed. There's a year in there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay.

[Robin Pemberton]

So at the end of. At the end of the penske thing, that was 01.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So that's the year that we lost Dale, Right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

Things changed. Oh, you. You look at it, and I did. I did it when a study when I was at 4, just about. We called it the DOB study. Right. Driver's age, performance, things like that. We did all the drivers. 2001. Everybody's stuff went down. It's just a fact. Along with age, with. With the driver ages, their performance changes, their qualifying numbers in those days. Not now. Maybe not now.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, they retired 40 now.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. They got. Their qualifying numbers went down lower. They went slower qualifying, but their finishing numbers went up. So as they. You know, as they matured, they realized that, you know, 200 must first finish.

[Kenny Wallace]

Finish first. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. So we had. We had that going on. So 2001, you know, your brother and I used to go to dale's once every two or three weeks. After we got done BSing around the shop on Tuesday with Jeffrey doing a setup, getting everything ready for the phone, we. He said, come on, let's go see Dale. We go see Dale and talk. We did that for a couple years. So when Dale passed, it had a negative effect on a lot of stuff. And I'm sitting there, you know, I spent a lot of time with him, and. And, you know, we knew a lot about each other and this, that, and the other. And so I was like, golly, you know, I'm 40 some years old, and my. My kids are doing sports by themselves, and my wife's raising the kids, and I need to change. I need to do something. And I tried to get in a role at Penske to be like the. The team manager just over competition, hire another smart crew chief to come in there and then just kind of regulate these guys and work on projects and get two crew chiefs, right? And I just couldn't get. I just couldn't get it to go. Whether. Doesn't matter if there's somebody didn't want it to happen or it wasn't going in the right direction, you know, whatever. Whatever. So at that time, Kyle calls, and he's like, hey, you know, I've got. I'm wrestling this big beast at level cross. Can you come do this thing?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So at the time, I wasn't making any. I was trying to get the same position at Penske. I would have never left Penske ever, if it didn't. You know, if. If all this other stuff didn't happen all the background noise. So I went to Kyle's. So we go in there and he's got good money, whatever. And so we, I start setting stuff up. We got scale model, wind tunnel program getting ready to happen. We're testing these guys. Christian Fittipaldi's in there. He's helping, you know, he's running and testing and racing and whatever and. And you know, it's like I, I got to, I, I was just moving too fast for what they were, what they wanted to do or were able to do or you could. Big pill to swallow, right? I was, I was creating Penske over there and it wasn't going well.

[Kenny Wallace]

Gotcha.

[Robin Pemberton]

I had a 10 year contract that lasted 11 months.

[Kenny Wallace]

Welcome to the big time.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so that was in the middle. So he said, look, we got to part ways. Yeah. So that was devastating.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me say this.

[Robin Pemberton]

That led up to the Ford.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. But let me say this. Kyle Petty once said to me, everybody should split up every three years. He said that. And maybe he'll remember it. But. But that's competition, you know, and I say it all the time. Father John, when he married Kim and me, he said, be careful, young man. Competition will kill you.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Nobody stays together. Nobody. Except maybe Jeff Gordon and Rick. You know, every once in a while this phenomenal thing comes out. But, but, you know, just because we, we leave and we part ways doesn't mean nobody failed. It's just. It's competition. People get weird.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And at Amica Insurance, we know it's more than just a house. It's your home. The place that's filled with memories. The early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring.

[Robin Pemberton]

It out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

For the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica Home Insurance. Ameca Empathy is our best policy.

[Commercial Speaker]

At our X bar, they believe in simple nutrition without the bs. That's why they said no to artificial ingredients and yes to deliver intentional transparent nutrition. Try their original 12 gram protein bar, the Nut Butter and oat bar, or Minis Rxbar, the proud sponsor of no BS. Use code RXBAR on RXBAR.com for 25% off, subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers. See rxbar.com for full details and limitations.

[Kenny Wallace]

I guess what I'm saying to you is you.

[Robin Pemberton]

You.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're so. You're so successful. You did so good. When we look back on these things, don't Even fret, it's hell, we're kicking ass now. Everything's fine. So you, you become the field manager for Ford Racing, then the vice president, competition. And I want to say this.

[Robin Pemberton]

What.

[Kenny Wallace]

This says in my brain is now all these Roger Penske and Ford, now the biggest people in auto racing, they look at Robin Pemberton as the man. He's, he's smart, he understands, you know, graphs and he understands math. Now you're at a point in your life where you've laid your bed and these big companies are like, you know, Robin Pemberton. So you end up there. Just a quick snippet on a Ford becoming vice president, competition.

[Robin Pemberton]

So Ford. So when I left, I was out of work after, after Petty Enterprises, I had nothing. I called Jack Roush because we, even though we'd split, we were still friends.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And, and so I said, hey, you know, got anything? He's like, man, no. There's just, the quote was, there's no room at the inn, but let me work on some stuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So he just, he thinks that I need to go to work, that Ford doesn't have a field manager, a presence in the Carolinas. Right, yeah. So he calls either my. I may have called Mike, I'm not sure. Or Hunter or somebody down there. But anyways, so Bill calls and is like, we need to have you come. You know, you need, you need to do the field manager stuff. And so they get working on it. So he's, Bill's calling France. He's, he's saying it's a good deal. Mike Helton saying it's a good deal. Jack Roush is saying it's a good deal for Ford or Ford.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'll be damn, nascar get involved.

[Robin Pemberton]

Okay, Right. And, and Bill, Bill and I had been friends for a long time, a lot.

[Kenny Wallace]

The owner of nascar, everybody, Bill France. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So anyway, so I go to work at Ford and we start to work on these projects and this, that and the other. So it was a three year deal. About 16 months into it, Jim Hunter calls. Right. You remember Jim?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, Jim. Jim is the real owner of NASCAR right now.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, almost. Yeah. Well, so. And he's Bill's, he was one of Bill's guys.

[Kenny Wallace]

I mean, we, we lost him and.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, but yeah, and so he said, he said, bill wants to talk to you. You know, I said, okay, whatever. So the conversation happened that they now want me to come to nascar. And, and he's like, come here, I got something for you to do. You know, I got something for you. You should come do this.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's like he was so powerful.

[Robin Pemberton]

Okay. Those days, I said. I said to Bill, I said, God, you just spent a month getting me a job at Ford that you wanted me to have. You preferred to me to be there. I was good for it. And now you. Now you're trying to get me out of there. So they worked a deal, and so. And I only. I left there in the late of the second year and went to work for competition department at vice president of competition. So let me ask.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me ask you this and teach me, because I don't know everything. I'm not Dale Jr. And I'm not Kyle Petty. Those two are historians. They know everything. What was the difference between Jim Hunter and Jim France? Are they family?

[Robin Pemberton]

No, no, Hunter. Hunter was media. Hunter did the media stuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

He seems bigger than life.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah, Jim Hunter, he used to be at the Atlanta Journal Constitution, then he was at Darlington. He's been at the. You know, he was the head of the media group at the time. He was ahead of nascar. The media guys at nascar. God, Jim Hunter. Oh, he was a great guy.

[Kenny Wallace]

I mean, everybody loved him. Yeah, he wore that old number 48 hat.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, he was great. Yeah, he was a lot of fun.

[Kenny Wallace]

So he was just media in here the whole time. I'm thinking, this guy is.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I guess sometimes you feel like the media runs.

[Robin Pemberton]

He swung a big stick in the company. You know, in the time when Bill was there, you know, it really did. It was. Yeah, he was a pleasure to be around.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. I'm not. I'm not too embarrassed now, because you. You do. Yeah, I guess that's why I just thought, you know, I mean, everybody talked to him like he owned nascar, but I guess.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. And basically he did in this. In his sort of way, you know. He did. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Jim Hunter. And everybody loved him so much.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, my God, he was funny.

[Kenny Wallace]

And now Jim France. You know, I've interviewed Ben Kennedy.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And Ben Kennedy, he admitted, you know, Jim France is the Grand Poopa nowadays. Okay, well, thank you. Okay, so you did it for me. It's like, how do we get from Ford to nascar? All right, let me introduce you, please. Allow me to introduce. Yeah. You're a man of wealth and fame. Okay. You become the most controversial person in NASCAR in a long time, in a great way. Let me explain. You become the NASCAR vice President of competition. You were one of the most popular NASCAR officials of all time. And here's why. Because you created what you didn't realize in 2010 during a press conference when NASCAR was begging for excitement, you said, we're going to quit. Basically, I'm paraphrasing this, but you said, boys, have at it. And all hell broke loose. Yeah, mentally. Mentally. Robin Pemberton said, we can go back to policing ourselves. Boys, have at it.

[Robin Pemberton]

And what do you remember?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, what do you remember about that? That day and the week after?

[Robin Pemberton]

It was, it was the, the first. It was the media thing with all the drivers there and everything, right. And so in the morning, we had a meeting with Brian and, And whoever was in media and Mike and myself. And so whatever, half a dozen people, and Brian was explaining, like, look, we've become too sterile, right? We've become too, too clean cut, too. Nobody wants to do anything wrong. Nobody wants to, you know, get it on the edge, whatever that happens to be. He's like, how do you gonna. You got to get that message across. I mean, this is an hour before I go on stage. Like, there's no script. There's nothing. I didn't go up there with a piece of paper in my hand. I didn't. Nothing. So I get talking, you know, I, I've never seen. I've never seen the whole clip. So I don't know. You know, I just know what people tell me. And so, you know, I get talking about things and, and it was of like, you know, letting. Letting guys rub. Letting you know. It's. It's police themselves, please. Right? You know, don't. Yeah, we've been judged too sterile. Whatever. Whatever led into it. And so it was the closing remarks and then. And I said, you know, unscripted. I said, so boys, have at it and have a good time. And that was it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Isn't it funny that?

[Robin Pemberton]

Totally off the cuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

And this is life. Because they say the best laid plans are the ones that are not planned at all. At what. At one point, at what point did you realize that you became a quote for the rest, for history in nascar? Was it the day after? Was it after? Was it a month later?

[Robin Pemberton]

I did not. I did not realize anything until Homestead, really. And Homestead. So it's typical, you know, it's Homestead, it's busy in the trailer. You got all kinds of folks walking in, you know, musicians saying, hi, this, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And so I get a text from somebody that's home watching and they played. They did a. They did a whole ESPN or whoever was doing the race then. I think it was espn. They did a whole clip of me. It was really weird. Of boys have at it and have a good time. All this stuff going on and just.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Kind of funny. And. And so they played it. It was the. On the air. I didn't know anything about it. We weren't even. We weren't watching tv. So my phone starts to go off. Hey, we just saw you on tv. Boys have had to have a good time. This, that, and the other. All right. I didn't. Okay. I didn't see it. So now that. Forget who it was at tv, they call me. Hey, we need that. We need your approval for something. We. So they show up. They play that. They play it up in the lounge for Mike and myself, and I think somebody else, Jim might have been up there. And it's like, okay, yeah. When are you gonna do it? Well, you know, we're gonna. You know, we don't know yet or what. I'm. I'm not in the loop on what they've been doing or he open the door. Well, they've already been playing it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And so there it was, you know, and it was. Yeah, it's different. You know what I mean?

[Kenny Wallace]

It was awesome. I loved it, and here's why I loved it. I want to be. Be specific. The caution came out in Phoenix. When I first started racing in Cup 93, the caution come out, and I kept going. Terry Labonte was so mad at me, he started roughing me up. And after the race, I said, why are you so mad at me? He goes, when the caution comes out, we all slow up. Kenny.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I realized at that time, oh, we're not a union. But we all. We all got our own deal here on the racetrack.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

And when I went out to make a qualifying run, we don't pull out in front of each other.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

There were subtle rules inside NASCAR that.

[Robin Pemberton]

We just did because the unwritten rules.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. That's what we call.

[Robin Pemberton]

As time went on, you had the right rules because new people coming in, some listened. You listened, Right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

There's others that didn't listen. Right. That's. That's why we've got, you know, freeze the field, don't race back to the caution.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

One day in New Hampshire with guys strewn on the front stretch and are running Dale Jarrett to get to the line.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, it was. That's, you know, the rule book gets thicker.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. When you said, boys, have at it, I thought, oh, well, we've done that our whole life. You know, I wreck him, he wrecks me back, and now we're going to dinner together.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Because that's the way it was.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, I mean, one of the greatest shows in NASCAR history was Dale Earnhardt Senior and Jeff Bodine.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, I mean, what a show. They made a movie out of it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, it was a funny movie, but it was great.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, I want to ask this question. We're ending now your time as the NASCAR vice president of competition. I studied you, and in the end, this is what I want to know. How hard was it to officiate your crew member friends? You may. You were in that garage area your whole life.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And you understood it all those, you know, those were your. Those are your blood brothers now. Now you have. And the thing you and Gary Nelson shared in common is you. You knew how to work in the gray area, and NASCAR knew that about you. They knew you knew how to work in the gray area just like Gary Nelson. So now they're asking you to find all the great areas. How hard was it on you to officiate your. Your friends?

[Robin Pemberton]

Well, as it, as it, as it started, all right, each side was waiting for me to fix the other side, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So NASCAR wanted me to not fix it, but understand the gray areas, slow some of the stuff down and, and then the competition side, my friends in the garage, right. They were like, you know, those guys don't know anything and this, that and the other and blah, blah, blah. So I had to balance that with educating the garage area on what nobody would educate them on. For instance, you know, I used to talk to Greg Zipadelli a lot. And, and back in the day, for whatever reason, we just were friends. And I was, I would say to him, I said, I said, this is how they work. Things like the rules are a year in advance, we are working on stuff a year in advance. They don't work on something on Monday to release on a Thursday. And I would, I would say, for instance, you know, this. Or timing and scorn, or they're looking at, you know, they're the weights, the way weight of the car or the templates or whatever it took. You know, in those days, the cars were, you know, they're pretty out of. They were out of bounds a lot. And. And so it was both sides of things. I said, you know, they do this and I'm telling you how hard they work in advance. A lot harder than you give them credit for in the garage area. And it wasn't just him. It was Robbie Loomis. There was others I talked to. I said, but they don't understand how hard it is for you when you, when you're working. Like, there's, like. It was part of it that didn't know that you needed a year's notice on things to obsolete cars, to equipment or, you know, different things like that. So it was a two. It was a two way street because I was able now see, peek behind the curtain. And so I, I took the good on both sides and tried to communicate that to both sides. You know, there was nobody in the wrong. Everybody was in the right. There was misunderstandings on some of this stuff, you know, and so I just, you know, all the time. And there were. There was those, you know, that, that I had more meetings with than others based on them pushing the. Pushing the rules. You know, Chad Knauss and I got to be great friends, you know, and we were.

[Kenny Wallace]

You talk about an intense individual, man.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, my God, he was.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, so here we are. I'm gonna say this, and then this is the last thing you and I raced our whole life. We're fabricators. To this day, I work on my own stuff. Is it fair to say that the sport, the building of the race car became so out of hand that the teams had so many cars per driver? Most teams had 10 to 15 cars per driver.

[Robin Pemberton]

We had 18 for your brother. 18.

[Kenny Wallace]

There you go, everybody. So the sport becomes so out of hand because we want a car for Bristol, we want a car for the road course. We want a car for intermediate, we want a car for Daytona, Talladega. That it was costing the car owners so much money.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And. And you couldn't control these guys.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

The Bristol fiasco, where the car is so caddy wo that you park the car and. And now you got. You were part of NASCAR going, look, the coroners are screaming at us. The coroners are coming to you guys. Is that what happened? The coroner said, we got 15, 18 cars per driver. Stop.

[Robin Pemberton]

They get a lot of credit for. There's a lot of credit that goes to the teams or criticism, whatever. I think that NASCAR has to. Their job is to deploy this system, templates, regulation, all of this stuff. Behind the curtain, there's owners that go and say, look, you've got to stop this. We are our own worst enemy. Right, Right. And, you know, even though some of them may have appeared to have a bottomless pit of money, they. They were seeing. It was a bad, bad way to go. Now what I don't hear out there is the same owner saying, well, NASCAR is doing the right thing. Nascar? Nascar, yeah. This is exactly what we all wanted. Not. You don't hear a lot of that. But I'm telling you, that's where it starts. You know, you're regulating the sport as far as how people want to be regulated. If it's going to be a cowboys and Indians where everybody's going their own ways and doing this other thing. That's what we had in the 90s and the 2000s and when money came in and you could have 18 race cars, a Bristol only car, your Talladega car wasn't the same as your Daytona car because it took less downforce at Talladega than Daytona. It's insane, Insane when money come in with no rules. You exploited those rules to your advantage. You know, you didn't have 12 people on a team. It was 20, it was 30, it was 50. And I hear now 100 or 75 to 100 people per car number, things like that.

[Kenny Wallace]

And now Ray Evernham is flying in a athletic pit crew on Sunday morning.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, we had, we, we had our own athletes at sabco. It was the first place I worked. I had a gym and they had trainers that come in and so they would, we would work out every day at, at Felix's. I was a front tire changer, you know what I mean? And you would do pit stops at 6 o' clock at night before you went home, you know, but Ray forced that issue, you know, and it was, wasn't a bad thing by any means, but it's crazy, you know. So to get back to the basics is they, they, the car owners wanted, needed, they pushed it and, and nascar, I'm sure I wasn't there at the time. I was there for some of it, said, okay, this is what you got. We're going to have a single source gearbox, a single source for, for hubs and uprights and you know, you got your own manufacturers for engines. You know, we're going to have a single source for body panels that are composite that are, you know, it's still hard to control the quality and the spec on all of that stuff. I mean, you walk into a shop and people have got bodies under heat lamps and shop bags, trying to get them to either just get into the zone or to get to the advantage side of the zone or the tolerance of the templates, whatever that happens to be. But there's a lot of work, it's just gone in a different direction. But most, a lot of this came, you know, I can guarantee you, you know, now, you know, the NASCAR higher ups, they didn't wake up one morning and said, we're gonna go spec racing. The only thing that. The only thing, at me personally, I wished that. And nothing against anything other, I. I wish the gearbox was made in usa. I wish it was a usa.

[Kenny Wallace]

Where's it made?

[Robin Pemberton]

It's Italy, I believe.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's good stuff everywhere. You know, I. I just wish that that stuff was done with United States manpower and stuff. I mean, I'm sensitive to that a little bit, and we all are. You know, that's. That's the only thing I like. I've gotten, you know, some guys have asked me to come and show me their cars when the teams are gone, you know, different things, and I go look around and it's like, that stuff's nice. Like that is. That's. That's well thought out, strong. You know, I hate that the toe links break and stuff like that. But it's nice stuff. It's nice equipment. I. You know, it'd be nice to work on it, you know, so.

[Kenny Wallace]

So the. The Gen 7 car. This reminds me of the wizard of Oz movie. You know, you peel the curtain back in NASCAR and Roger Penske, Jack Roush, Richard Childer, Sarah going build the Gen 7 car. So it saves us money. So it is a little upsetting to me that. And I agree with you. I wish nascar. I wish Jim France and Steve o' Donnell would have Roger Penske, have Jack Roush. They could take a lot of heat off a nascar.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

If the coroners went, look, we asked for this car.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I agree with you. And. And I wish they would do that. And I want to be clear to everybody watching this. We just debull everything. The owners wanted this Gen 7 car because as Robin said, at one time, Rusty Wallace had 18 cars. So there you go, everybody. It's not cussing, but we just debulled it all, for real. I've been screaming at the top of my lungs, quit getting so mad at nascar. They did what the owners wanted because we were spending too much money.

[Robin Pemberton]

I tell you what I. I like. I. I like the tires falling off the show at North Wilkesboro. Oh, tremendous. It was a tremendous show. I mean, it's like they raced better than we did when we were there. Yes. When everybody had different cars. When you had a Wilkesboro, Martinsville only car. Right. We did. You know what I mean? I thought. I thought it was tremendous. I really did. I think that, you know, the tires were perfect for that deal. You could do four, two, or none on a short run or whatever. You know, that type of scenario, you know, that's. That's on the dartboard. That's the bullseye for like, what tires do we need at, you know, Martinsville or Richmond or what tires do we need at some of these other places that, you know, let you pit early or run long? The Bristol thing was a surprise to me that you could run 35 laps. You know, I'm not in the sport, but I watch every lap I can, obviously, right. And so we watched the replays, the. You know, until the track rubbered in. And then the track rubbered in. You could run a long fuel stop on it. It was perfect.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's amazing. The tires were in the cords, they were going to blow out. And practice and you drop the green flag, you run forever.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

How do you guess that?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I wouldn't.

[Kenny Wallace]

I don't want to be good here. I don't want to be good.

[Robin Pemberton]

They got a hard road. I mean, especially. What if it doesn't ever warm up? What was a 40 degree day and not a 65 degree day? And the rubber takes differently. And that's a. That's a. Target's hard to hit. God bless those guys.

[Kenny Wallace]

Robin, I gotta go. I'm headed to the Mayo Clinic. I just now panicked. We have been doing this. You are officially the longest one ever. You're an hour and 40 minutes. Hey, listen, everybody. There he is. Robin Pemberton. Are you doing anything right now? Are you?

[Robin Pemberton]

No, not right now. I'm this afternoon. I'm gonna go down and see some friends at the hall of Fame announcement. You know, just hang out. Yeah, yeah, it'll be good.

[Kenny Wallace]

They're gonna put you in the hall of Fame as a pioneer. Okay, everybody.

[Robin Pemberton]

Looking forward to it. All right. If you touch.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, you know I will. Well, listen up, everyone. If you want to see Robin Pemberton's pretty face on Kenny Conversation, it's right here on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show. Or go over on Dale Earnhardt Junior's Dirty Mo Media podcast, and you can listen to Kenny Conversation in both places. Robin, thank you so much.

[Robin Pemberton]

All right. Appreciate it. Thanks for the invite.

[Kenny Wallace]

Thank you, buddy. All right, there he is, one of the smartest men in nascar. Call him up. He might come to work for you. Maybe. He's got it pretty good right now.

[Robin Pemberton]

A little part time action. You know something.

[Kenny Wallace]

All right, everybody, until the next Kenny Conversation, we'll see you later. Goodbye. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter. Twitter, Facebook, TikTok. And Instagram.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

@ Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a car. It's the two door coupe that was there for your first drive, the hatchback that took you cross country and back, and the minivan that tackles the weekly carpool for the cars you couldn't live without. Trust Ameca Auto Insurance Amica. Empathy is our best policy.

[Robin Pemberton]

There are some things in life that just shouldn't be forgotten, like bringing your keys when you leave the house, setting your fantasy lineup, and most importantly, having Hidden Valley Ranch to watch the game. Especially if you're having pizza. Those creamy, zesty, cool ranch flavors take each cheesy, melty bit bite to an unforgettable level. Hidden Valley Ranch only serious about flavor.