How Jeff Gluck Changed NASCAR Reporting

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Herm & Schrader

Episode: How Jeff Gluck Changed NASCAR Reporting

Date: April 9, 2026

Hosts: Kenny Wallace (“Herm”) & Ken Schrader

Guest: Jeff Gluck (The Athletic)

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Overview

This episode welcomes acclaimed motorsports journalist Jeff Gluck for a revealing, often hilarious conversation about reporting, the transformation of NASCAR media, and the changing landscape of motorsports fandom. Kenny Wallace leads a spirited, freewheeling dialogue that covers Formula 1's American invasion, fan experience shifts, the economics and culture of NASCAR, and how Gluck’s signature reporting innovations shook up the sport. The episode balances nostalgia, industry critique, and irreverent humor, channeling the unfiltered camaraderie and candor for which Herm & Schrader is known.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Formula 1 vs. NASCAR Culture Clash

Segment: [04:07 – 12:20]

• Kenny asks Jeff for his impressions of Formula 1’s Las Vegas Grand Prix and its impact on American motorsports.
• Gluck’s take: “F1 is not even that they’re not going for the NASCAR type of fan. They don’t even seem interested in… normal people. They’re looking for the sort of elite, wealthy, famous people—huge spenders.” (Jeff Gluck, [06:02])
  • F1 event was tailored more for exclusivity and the wealthy, starkly contrasting NASCAR’s grassroots, working-class approach.
  • Fans were locked out of Thursday practice (after only 8 mins of track activity) with no refunds offered, only a token voucher, underscoring the difference in fan treatment.
• Comparison to NASCAR:
  • NASCAR prioritizes fan value: affordable experiences, free autograph sessions, accessible drivers.
  • F1’s extravagant spending: “F1 spent over half a billion dollars to put on this Las Vegas race… There’s so much money that they don’t even know what to do with it.” (Gluck, [09:31])

2. NASCAR’s Identity Crisis: Chasing New Fans vs. Core Values

Segment: [12:20 – 19:01]

• Kenny and Jeff debate whether NASCAR should emulate F1’s glitz or double down on its own traditions.
• Gluck warns of the perils of abandoning NASCAR’s essence in pursuit of “mythical new fans”:
  • “The more you try to be something you’re not… that can actually weaken you.” ([10:45])
  • Calls for NASCAR to focus on product quality—oval racing, tradition, fan passion.

3. The New Live Sports “Experience”

Segment: [12:20 – 17:54]

• Discussion on how sporting events now focus less on watching the action and more on peripheral activities (bars, socializing, entertainment zones)—even at races.
• Gluck: “There are times I go to sporting events where I’m super into it and looking at the people around me, like, how are you not into this? … For NASCAR… the tricky part is how do you accommodate that [casual fan] without hurting too much of… the core experience?” ([13:56–16:56])
  • Example: Indie 500’s “Snake Pit” is a party zone where attendees often ignore the race entirely.
  • Importance of balancing hardcore fan needs with luring new fans via diversified experiences.

4. Attendance Numbers — Fact or Marketing?

Segment: [17:54 – 22:42]

• Kenny raises the issue of F1-style “weekend totals” (not day-of guests) inflating headcounts.
• Gluck:
  • Most attendance numbers are for promotion, not accuracy.
  • F1 and NASCAR both fudge numbers to control perception.
  • Applauds F1 for their driver engagement: “They are doing the work with the fans and sponsors… [NASCAR used to have] all this huge list of where all you guys were going to be.” ([21:24])

5. NASCAR’s Diminished Fan Access & Time Commitment

Segment: [22:42 – 27:05]

• Kenny bemoans the cutting of fan experiences (ex: Winston Preview) and the shortening of Speedweeks.
• Gluck:
  • Sponsor-driven appearances are rarer; drivers demanded better work-life balance.
  • NASCAR team spending and commitment have dipped from their peak.
  • “It is definitely good there’s more life balance now… but it’s almost gone so extreme.” ([25:53])
  • F1, ironically, now requires every driver to do regular fan forums and public Q&As.

6. Jeff Gluck’s Backstory & Career

Segment: [28:12 – 33:58]

• Gluck shares a personal narrative:
  • Grew up in Bay Area, moved to Denver after the 1989 earthquake, attended University of Delaware.
  • Discovered sportswriting after failing to get into a sports announcer track.
  • “I just started being a sports writer… and that was how it happened.” ([31:58])

7. The Survival Story: Crowdfunding, Independence & Authentic Coverage

Segment: [33:58 – 39:11]

• Gluck recounts leaving USA Today when his wife needed to relocate for work.
• “I’m gonna try to start my own website… If you’ve enjoyed my work… here’s a way you can support me… If not… I’ll go work at Starbucks or drive Uber or whatever.” ([37:45])
• Fans rallied, sustained his reporting via small monthly pledges.
  • “The only people I had to answer to were the readers.” ([38:46])
• Kenny credits Gluck’s courage: “Your life will not change until you change your life. And I admire you for being a badass.” ([39:11])

8. Innovations: Quiet Track, 12 Questions, “Was It a Good Race?”

Detailed Segment: [41:45 – End]

“Quiet Track” ([42:22], [44:16])

• Gluck started posting serene, post-race photos from empty racetracks—capturing the transformation from chaos to peace.
• Became an instantly iconic feature, now imitated throughout the racing world.
  • “I just started taking a picture… like, quiet track instead of the loud track that we had just seen… 14 years now.” (Gluck, [43:23])

“12 Questions” ([44:55], [47:45])

• Originated as a series to spotlight drivers outside the top 12 in points.
• Grew into annual interviews asking drivers fresh, unusual questions—revealing personality not caught in standard media sessions.
  • “My goal is, like, you hear the drivers get asked the same questions all the time… What if I could come up with 12 questions… that they either don’t get asked very often or have never been asked before at all?” ([46:27])
• Kenny praises: “Must read… because it’s quick and you get a lot of information.” ([44:55])

“Was It a Good Race?” ([49:47], [53:29])

• Weekly Twitter poll started as a one-off query (“Did the rules package work?”), now a huge audience touchstone—30,000+ votes.
• “This is a sport where… NASCAR is always about the fans… So that is my question: did it work? Did you like this?” ([51:05])
• Some in the industry push back, but Gluck finds affirmation in comparable dirt racing fan conversations.
  • “If Brad Sweet is coming up after the race saying, ‘Yeah we just kind of missed it tonight track prep-wise’… why can’t you ask that?” ([52:36])
• NASCAR itself pays attention: “I have heard from NASCAR… we do look at the poll and use it along with other things.” ([52:57])

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Final Reflections: NASCAR Today, Next Gen Car, and Integrity

Segment: [54:33 – End]

• Opinion on modern NASCAR:
  • “NASCAR today is in the best place it’s been in the last decade… I have a lot more confidence in the current group than… five, six years ago, even.” ([54:33])
  • Praises scheduling improvements and recent leadership.
• Next Gen Car:
  • Unexpectedly revived mile-and-a-half tracks but hurt short tracks:
    • “Nobody… would have said… I bet this is going to make the mile and a half tracks the best they’ve ever been… and pretty much ruin the short tracks and the road courses.” ([56:46])
  • Concern that short tracks—NASCAR’s traditional core—have lost their luster for new fans.
• Tech Inspection & Penalties:
  • Gluck likes the openness and education NASCAR provides now, explaining cheater parts to the media and fans ([60:31]).
  • But worries loss of innovation could create “spec racing”—"Are you going to lose that too much? Are all the cars going to be around the same speed and then it's… about clean air?" ([61:16]-[62:33])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On F1 elitism:
  “If you want to try to come, we’ll make some $1,500 per ticket seats available… If not, you know what, screw you.” (Jeff Gluck, [06:48])

• On the dangers of chasing new fans:
  “Every time NASCAR tries to go after some sort of mythical new fan, it always seems like it’s at the expense of the current fan.” (Jeff Gluck, [11:24])

• On standing out as a reporter:
  “You take your knife and you get right to their flesh but you never really puncture.” (Kenny, to Gluck, [32:56])

• On the quiet post-race stadium:
  “A few hours ago, all these stands were filled with people… now it’s completely quiet at the same spot… it was like, so peaceful.” (Jeff Gluck, [43:23])

• On the power of fan support during his independent phase:
  "I had enough people that were like… donating $2… $10 a month. It was enough to keep me going… The only people I had to answer to were the readers." (Jeff Gluck, [38:46])

• On “Was it a Good Race?” relevance:
  “I do want to remind people though, it’s not a scientific poll, it’s still a Twitter poll… Take what you want out of it.” (Jeff Gluck, [52:57])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------| | 04:07–12:20 | F1 Las Vegas & NASCAR comparison | | 12:20–19:01 | NASCAR’s pursuit of new fans versus tradition | | 19:01–22:42 | Attendance: truth vs. marketing | | 22:42–27:05 | Fan access & sport “dumbing down” | | 28:12–33:58 | Jeff Gluck’s personal journey | | 33:58–39:11 | Crowdfunding and independence | | 41:45–47:45 | Quiet Track & 12 Questions | | 49:47–53:29 | Was It a Good Race? | | 54:33–62:33 | State of NASCAR, Next Gen car, penalties |

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is unpolished, candid, and occasionally irreverent—reflecting Wallace and Schrader’s signature style. Humor, self-deprecation, and storytelling drive the rapport, while Jeff Gluck provides thoughtful, measured industry insight. The tone shifts smoothly between nostalgia, honest critique, and celebration of racing’s passionate community.

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Conclusion

This episode serves as a masterclass on the evolution of motorsports journalism, the shifting economics and culture of NASCAR, and the power of innovation—even accidental. Jeff Gluck’s authenticity, creativity, and connection to the fanbase have changed the way the sport is covered—and how it relates to its audience.

If you want to understand modern racing—on the track and in the press box—this conversation is essential listening.

Transcript

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[Kenny (Host)]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything you need for your vehicle. Well, there are reporters and then there are reporters, and this man is the journalist for the Athletic, and I think he's one of the best in America, if not the world. Everybody loves this guy, the great Jeff Gluck. Jeff, welcome to Kenny Conversation.

[Jeff Gluck]

I. I don't know about everybody loving me. I mean, maybe you're filtering out some of the Twitter mentions that I see, but thank you, first of all, for having me. When you messaged me, I was like, wait me on here. Like, did you text the wrong person or something? Like, are you sure? But no, I, I appreciate it, especially, I mean, Missouri Sports hall of Fame sitting next to Adam Wainwright. Now, like, I got to talk to you. Like his spot. I mean, that's. It's pretty good. So this is big for me.

[Kenny (Host)]

Stop it. So, hey, by the way, I said off air, I said, boy, you look clean shaven. But you said, you're getting ready for the holidays, huh?

[Jeff Gluck]

You know, I was. I had the beard going for a long time and I had it in my little logo. Cartoon face, even.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yes.

[Jeff Gluck]

And I remember when I first started the cartoon face thing, Dale Jr. Was like, you know, I don't think that you should do that for your cartoon face because you're always going to have to have this hat on and you're always going to have to have the beard when. What happens when you want to change it up? And I was like, but then, you know, the years went by and I was like, well, I kind of got to keep the beard and I kind of got to keep the same hat or similar. And then like around July, around the Chicago street Race this year, I'm like, you know what, I'm shaving the beard. And so I've done the shaving thing every day. But it's like part of the season, right? Like you get in the rhythm of the season. Now I'm already, I don't even know what day it is in the off season, you know, and I'm like, I've gone a couple days that shave. I think I can let it grow a little bit till Daytona or something, right?

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah. Well, you know, when I was in school, there was this girl, I was a senior, and this girl said, you know, every time you shave, you take a layer of skin off. And I believed her. But I, I don't know. But anyway, I've shaved so much in my life, obviously being on TV and representing my sponsors. And I'm like you right now. You know, during the winter time, we're just going to chill out, give. Give my. Give our faces a break. So I agree. So, well, let's get to it. You are a motorsports journalist and that means I see you everywhere, specifically nascar. But you were at Vegas for the Formula one event and I followed your every move. I was really interested and so was the NASCAR world. Everybody wants to hear what you have to say about Formula one kind of invading America somewhat. And I mean that light hearted. But what was your thought and what did you see at Las Vegas for Formula One?

[Jeff Gluck]

So, you know, this was supposed to be in a lot of ways like the peak of F1's rise, right? Like F1's growing in America. What does that mean? You know, they're getting all these celebrities there and they have, they have the flashiness and first they had the Miami Grand Prix last year, now they have F. They have the F1 Las Vegas greatly. It's the third one in America in a single year where they used to only have one a year, right? And to me, that for, for the part of their rise, it was like, okay, what's this mean for nascar, right? Like, is this a threat to nascar? How's. How does this affect nascar? And my feeling after Las Vegas sort of felt like it's not Even, it's just two different things. Because here's why F1 is not. It's not even that they're not going for the NASCAR type of fan. They don't even seem interested in, like, I would say, normal people. What I would classify myself as like a normal person, right? They are looking for the. The sort of elite, wealthy, famous people with huge spenders. And it, it. Their attitude to me sort of comes off as like, we've got this cool thing. It's. It's for like the celebrities and the A listers and, you know, people with just. That could just throw around $10,000 and not even think about it. And if you want to try to come, we'll make some, you know, $1,500 per ticket seats available for you if you can afford it. If not, you know what, Screw you. We don't really actually care about you. And oh, by the way, like, we. They had their cheapest practice of the, of the weekend was this Thursday, Thursday night thing, right? The track comes apart. It happens. You know, it's street courses or whatever. So they say, oh, we got to cancel the first practice, so then we'll have the second practice sometime. Then they say, well, it's running late. You know what? We're going to kick all the fans out. We're going to kick everybody out and get paid for the tickets and we're going to run the practice at. From 2:30 in the morning to 4:00am but our people, the security are so tired, so we can't have any fans there. So everybody's got to leave. So all these people that paid all this money, you know, like the people that were working, maybe like the retail jobs or restaurant, and they came and they said, you know what? We can't afford the big tickets. We can't afford the race stuff, but we could afford maybe this Thursday practice day. This is our one shot to see the cars. And they said, you know what? We'll give you. We basically give you eight minutes of practice. Canceled it. And then here's the kicker. No refunds, no money back. Sorry. Actually, they didn't even say sorry. People complained and they just said, these things happen. Hope you understand. Here's a 200 voucher to our souvenir store, which, by the way, is like one hat in F1, right? So to me, it was just like. I've never seen it kind of blew my mind because I was like, wow, coming from the NASCAR side of things, where it's always like, look, we're trying to. We're trying to make the fans happy. We're trying to provide value to the fans. We want the fans to know they can come here and do this and they can get these deals and we're going to give this and we're going to give a free autograph session and we're going to do whatever, right? This was like. We don't really care if you're mad or not. You're lucky to even be able to come to our event. Sorry that you only saw eight minutes. Again, not even saying sorry. And we're just going to move on and everybody else, the rich people, they'll have a great weekend and that's it. So it just dawned on me like, yeah, this is not, this is not even the same type of crowd that NASCAR is going for. NASCAR is going for like, sort of the, the working class type people. The people that, you know, want to see the gritty type of racing that feel like they want to get close to their favorite drivers and know them and go all around America and all this stuff. This is just a totally. To me, it's like, it's, it's just. Yes, it's racing. It's two forms of racing, but you can't even. I just, I feel like you can't even compare them at this point, you know?

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah, that's, that's a good take. And I've always thought, you know, I, I'm 60 years old, so I always think about the Titanic. Right. You know, if you want the cheap rooms, you go into the bottom of the ship. You want the expensive rooms, you go to the top. But you're right, Formula One doesn't even offer anything for the, for the working class thing. And I agree with that. So another thing that I noticed was I saw Don Hawk was out there. I saw Denny Hamlin was out there. What was your take on NASCAR's interest? Did you see any NASCAR executives out there? Do you think NASCAR was watching and trying to see what was up?

[Jeff Gluck]

I mean, I, I certainly think that NASCAR would be wise to, like, look at some of the things they're doing. Right? Like, you can't just ignore what's happening where people are paying attention to F1 and, you know, the, the show elements that they're doing and all the stuff they have surrounding it and the parties and just the over the top extravaganza and all that stuff. There's some things that NASCAR can take from it, but I, I honestly feel like also, like there's so much, so much that has to do with just the amount of money that is flowing through F1. There's so much money that they don't even know what to do with it.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff Gluck]

I mean, when they can spend. I mean, we Thought NASCAR spent a lot of money on the Chicago street race. Right. They probably spent 100 something million dollars on that. Right. F1 spent over half a billion dollars to put on this Las Vegas race. And then all they have all these corporate sponsors and teams and all stuff who are just pouring their own money into it because they all want to be part of it. And like, you know, part of it is like, it's the big trendy, flashy thing right now. So people are trying to hop on board. Like, it was. Kind of reminds me of when people started getting into like the English Premier League Soccer 10 years ago. And everybody's like, well, you know, this is the next big thing. You got to have a team. And you know, it's. I think it's still growing in some ways, soccer, but like, it kind of plateaued. Like, people see it and they, they kind of move on a little bit. And you have some fans that stay. Some fans are like that. It's all right. So I think, you know, I think NASCAR should pay attention to some of the elements, but not get too caught up in trying to chase what F1 is doing. Because this is, this has sort of been NASCAR's problem. Right. The more you try to be something that you're not and get away from what has made you great, then that can actually weaken you in some aspects. Right. Like, and I think we've, we've seen that with like, sort of like the over reliance on road course racing or, you know, dirt racing. I mean. Yes, okay. Like, I think maybe one dirt race a year could be okay. One street race a year could be okay. But like, most of the people that fell in love with NASCAR fell in love for the ovals of various sizes. So the more you kind of get away from that and try to chase something else. Well, that's. Maybe this new fan wants this and maybe we can appeal to the new fan by this. Sometimes I think it just comes down to like making your own product, like, the best it can be. And then people are so excited about that product that they tell their friends, hey, you gotta check us out. And their friends, like, why are they so passionate about this? Maybe I need to watch this. Instead of like, yeah, we got our fans, we got our great group here, but like, let's go outside and try to get this, this demographic. This demographic. I don't, I just don't know if that works because unfortunately, I mean, you can see with my bald head, I've been around a while. I'm getting old. And we've Seen enough times where NASCAR tries to go after some sort of, like, mythical new fan, and it. It always seems like it ultimately is at the expense of the current fan, whether that's. Let's take the Labor Day race to Fontana. Oh, Southern California. That's gonna be our new thing. And a few years later, yeah, maybe Darlington was the right call there, and they take it back. Everybody's like, yay, it's back. Why but why'd you leave in the first place? Kind of thing. So there's a lot of that. Let's just eliminate that pattern of making mistakes and stick with what works in some ways.

[Kenny (Host)]

So I want to address something that I see and want you to comment on it, because you're out there. When I go downtown St. Louis and I go to watch my Cardinals or the Blues, I see in the midway, you know, it's so different now. I mean, they assume that the fans and the fans, all of you that are watching. Thank you for watching Kenny. Conversation. But I'm. I'm talking about you, the fans. So, Jeff, what I see is things that I would never see before. They assume that the fans really aren't watching the games anymore. So I see, like, these Jack Daniels, while the game's going on, you go up out of your seat and you. You drink with your friends while you. You're at the arena, you're at the stadium, but you're drinking a hardcore mixed drink. You're not in your seat. Obviously, the. The WI fi is unbelievable. The Daytona International Motor Speedway, they put millions of dollars into the WI Fi. So I know. You know what I'm saying. Do you think we are just dealing with. With this massive shift, for example, me and my wife, the TV is like background noise. We're both on our cell phones. You know, we're laying in bed, we're on our cell phones, and, oh, by the way, here's the tv. What is your thought specifically on this new world of nobody goes to their seats and really watches the race, but they're there?

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's two totally different types of crowds, right? Because, you know, like, if I go to, like, okay, so I live in Denver, right. The Rockies are no good. So there's really no reason for me to go and be, like, super into the game. Like, I used to go and be, like, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep score, you know, like, all the stuff, right? Like, I'm into it. I want to see what happens. And even if they have a bad season, I want to see what happens. Now it's like, I'm gonna go, I'll watch a few innings, I'll walk around, I'll go stand at what you're talking about, like the, the bar, the stand up bar. Come back. Oh, yeah, like somebody, somebody had a single and okay, I'm not as into it anymore for the games. I don't care about as much. I'm more of a casual in that aspect. But then there are times I go to sporting events where I'm like super into it and I'm like looking at the people around me like, how are you not into this? Don't you see what's going on? This is a huge game. Like, don't you want to pay attention to every play? And so I feel like nascar, like other sports or racing in general, are caught in between those things as well. Like North Wilkesboro, the All Star race, for instance, you're not going to need any sort of things you can do during that race because all the people that would go to North Wilkesboro are the hardcore, true legitimate NASCAR fans. They don't need. They're not going to get up during the race and go walk around and just be like, just there for Instagram moments with their friends and be like, oh, I'm at the game. And then they're drinking and they're like, what happened? Yeah, but like, I could see where, you know, I think like Kansas has done stuff like this, right? Where they've got the pickleball courts now out there and they've got stuff in this and it's like, yeah, the race is going on. But also like, we kind of want to appeal to the college crowd and get them drawn in. Obviously, you know, Indy 500, they've got the snake pit that gets, you know, seems bigger and bigger all the time, where you don't even, you don't even see the race at all. You don't even hear the race because the music's so loud. But they view it almost as a way to like, all right, we're getting them at, at this certain age and we're getting them used to coming to the track. And maybe when they get a little bit older, they still want to keep up that tradition of coming. But now this time they go, they go in the seats and they're still buying tickets either way. So we don't really care. They're giving us their money. We're just going to, we just want you to be happy with what you're doing, what the experience is. So I think there's probably room for both. The, the tricky part is how do you accommodate that without hurting too much of one or the other, especially the core fan, the core experience. Because if it's just like a party where nobody's really paying attention. Part of the reason I like to go to live sporting events is to feel the crowd. You want to feel when everybody's into it, that intensity. People hanging on the pitch like, all right, two strikes, two outs. Yeah. You know, runners on like, you know, like you want to. The crowd's getting hyped. You're like, all right, let's go. If, if that's happening and you're the only one into it and it's sort of like this dead environment, why did I come here and not just watch it on tv? What was the point? You know what I mean? So I think there's, it's all about trying to find the right mix. I don't fault any sports leagues. We're trying to bring people in like that. But you also don't want to just make it so casual that it's not, it takes, you know, it's just not about the true fan anymore. What would you like the power to do? Keep getting up. There's more fight in you. So play on. Bank of America Proud to be the Official bank of U.S. soccer and FIFA World Cup 2026 bank of America NA

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[Kenny (Host)]

I want to get to you in just a minute. I want to talk about where you're from and who is Jeff Gluck. But one more thing and then we'll turn the page here. I noticed that Formula one does something that I've never thought about before and I, I've witnessed this. Even at Circuit of the Americas, they never announced the crowd on the day of the race. So they said in Vegas, 315000 people over the three day period. So my point to you is this. You know, let's say we're at Phoenix for the championship race for NASCAR and let's say there's 70,000 people there on that day. Should they announce we had 150,000 people at the NASCAR weekend? What Is your take on this verbiage? What is. Should we announce how many's in the seats that day or for the whole NASCAR experience?

[Jeff Gluck]

I think if you're using attendance numbers to make it as like a marketing tool, like NASCAR used to. Right, right. They used to have these gobsmackingly huge attendance numbers. And then when attendance started going down, they said, well, we're actually not going to release those anymore. And then they said, by the way, a lot of times we. We actually were over inflating it anyway or just. It was just a guess. It wasn't actually the actual ticket sales that we had. We were just saying this holds about this. It's about this. So yes, it's, you know, this is the number. But people would use those, you know, back when, especially when newspapers were a thing, right? People, the newspaper would use those and they'd say, oh, attendance is up this year in nascar. Because they had. They said it was this last year. Now it's this. That might not even been true, but it was a marketing thing, right? So like, I think F1, when you say weekend attendance, you know, 400, 000 people, you're like, wow, oh my goodness, that's unbelievable. So for their purposes, I. I think, you know, why not? And, and if NASCAR ever wants to get back into it, who cares if they copy F1 that way, right? If they, if they want to say weekend attendance is this for Daytona and they want to include Xfinity and trucks and. And hey, they can include. They can include qualifying and. And the duels. Yeah, whatever. I mean, if. Because I think that's. That's the only reason that these leagues sort of say what the attendance is, right? I mean, yes, in baseball, they do it because it's part of their tradition and they have the actual numbers. Numbers, right. Like, they're very serious about that in the box score. And yeah, they have the capacity and you know, every down to the one seat who was there. Right. And you can guess the attendance on the scoreboard and all that stuff. But for everybody else, I think if they're using it as promotional stuff, then I don't have a problem with it. I mean, and look, One thing that F1's obviously doing really well is promoting themselves. I mean, they have a lot of buy in from every single facet of their. Including the drivers. I mean, the drivers, every single place they go, they come in at least a full day early. In Vegas, it was two full days of media and appearances and stuff before they ever got on track. They. That race was Saturday night. They were all running all over the city doing stuff on that Tuesday they did Tuesday, Wednesday, full days. And then they got on track Thursday night. And you know, they, they are treated like rock stars. They are treated like, you know, these celebrities and all stuff. But part of it is they are doing the work. I mean, it has got to be exhausting because I, you know, right after that they fly straight to Abu Dhabi for the next race and all that stuff. But they, they're putting in the work with the fans and the sponsors and all that stuff. Where I wish something that NASCAR would get back to is being at the track for a little bit longer. I don't think it has to be. They don't have to come in on Tuesday, but right now, a lot of times it'll be like, okay, the Cup Garage is going to open at like say like 11am Saturday or something like that, right. And we'll do sort of a afternoon practice and you know, maybe, maybe the cars have been inspected Friday night. The drivers aren't there yet. So the drivers fly in Saturday morning. You know, they go straight to the track, kind of get in uniform. They do their practice and qualifying. They're done. Xfinity goes off and then they come in Sunday and then they're out. So they're there for like a day and a half or something. Right. And that's not a lot of time to like do the fan interaction stuff and sort of the in market appearances and the. Remember you used to go on J Ski and there'd be this. All this huge list of where all you guys were going to be and all this stuff. So. Yeah.

[Kenny (Host)]

Do you feel like for a multitude of reasons that we, we dumbed our sports down? In other words, nascar, I feel like it's dumbed down. So in my day, it's like the season never end. All of us were up in Winston Salem at what was. And you're a young man. I don't know if you remember this. You shouldn't. The Winston preview was in. You know, I believe we're maybe not Duke play, but you know, January, Every single NASCAR driver, this thing was huge. They don't do the Winston preview anymore. It seemed like the drivers the sport of nascar, I mean, even speed weeks at Daytona, I mean it's. The whole Daytona experience now is like four days long. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Set. Five days long. The whole day. Tony experience. Five days long. Used to be 14 days. So you're saying maybe we should start maybe getting back to that?

[Jeff Gluck]

Well, it's a Couple things, right? I mean, number one, you lost a lot of the sponsors that were demanding that the drivers do kind of some of this stuff, right? Like, if it was a sponsor that said, hey, I want you to do this appearance in the market, I want you to go to the store and sign autographs for an hour or whatever, maybe there's not as much of that now. I don't know. But the second part is. Yeah. Everybody's saying, you know, you have the driver saying, look, we are on the road too much. We have to do testing all the time. Well, now that's gone. We have to some, you know, they do a rotation where they would fly the drivers into the city, you know, like a couple weeks out to sort of preview, make, you know, hey, hey, we're going to. We're going to Texas, and we're going to go around to all the TV stations and the newspaper. We're going to do a fan event. And don't forget, guys, race is coming up in three weeks. Buy your tickets, make sure, you know, they don't send. I don't think they do that anymore. As far as I know.

[Kenny (Host)]

They don't want to spend the money.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah.

[Kenny (Host)]

The drivers have told me. They'll say, hey, fly us. Fly us out there in your NASCAR private jet. And they're like, no, we want you to take commercial. And the driver's like, we ain't doing it then.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah, I mean, I can totally see that.

[Kenny (Host)]

A true story.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah. And so with the money, you know, like I was just saying, with F1, the money is flowing in, so everybody's, like, getting what they can. This, you know, nascar, the money sort of flowed out in a way, and now it's. It's stable, but you've lost a lot of that need to. To be there. And obviously, on the same time, you have the teams going, well, save us from ourselves. We don't want to be testing all the time. And now they, you know, they do have simulators instead, so maybe that's sort of taking the place of it. But one thing about testing was. I remember before I moved to Charlotte, like, I. I would live. You know, I lived in Southern California for a while. So drivers would come out and they would test Vegas or they would test Fontana or Phoenix. And so I would go. I would drive out there, and you'd have them there for two days, and you get a bunch of stories, you know, and fans were there, and it was like, hey, they're testing here. They're coming back in a couple months. So it Was all sort of like promotional and it was just the wheel kept spinning. And it is definitely good that there's more life balance now and the drivers don't have to be on the road as much. But it's, it's almost gone so extreme.

[Kenny (Host)]

I agree.

[Jeff Gluck]

Especially with the three day schedules being gone. Where, where can some of that come back? And it doesn't have to be all the way back. Nobody's saying like, hey, let's go crazy again. But like, maybe just a little bit. Some more steps back would help some things, especially when you look at, you know, the, the aura I used to have of F1 was, oh, my God, these guys are so untouchable. They, you know, you could never get close to them as fans. Every single drive, everyone F1 driver, every weekend is required to do their fan forum. They go up on the stage, they answer the questions, they throw out stuff to the crowd. So if you're a fan, you know, you're, you're going to be able to see your drivers and they're doing, they're going over, doing all these appearances all over town. When in Vegas, like every single driver, okay, this guy's going to be at the Aria. This guy's going to be in the lobby here.

[Kenny (Host)]

Spread them out and so you can

[Jeff Gluck]

actually see like as those guys are supposed to be. Wow. These days in nascar, I'm not sure I can go into a market and say, all right, where can I see Kyle Busch? Oh, he's not doing anything this weekend. Oh, darn. Like, that's my favorite driver. Usually I like to.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Gluck]

So I just think there's a little bit more that can be done there. I'm not saying extreme. Don't drivers, don't kill me. But something could be done.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, we're going to end this right there because we know that Steve Phelps and we do know that everybody at NASCAR has said, I got us. I'm a little bit embarrassed for him. They said they're going to make it about the fans next year. I'm like, has it not? But so I believe we're going to see a big push, Jeff, next year and getting back to the fan experience. And maybe it's just like what you just said. Maybe now the drivers are going to have to go back to work. Listen, I'm, I'm thankful for my life. I can't believe they paid me to race a car and do appearances. So, you know, when you, when you really look back at it, I mean, are we really working for a living here? We're driving cars and circles, and it's going to take a lot of work. And when you hit 50 or now it's 42 years old, your career is over. So suffer a little bit until you're 42, and then you can go do what you want to do. Okay. Jeff Gluck, born and raised in Delaware, is. Is this close. Tell me about you.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah, I'm actually a California guy.

[Kenny (Host)]

Oh.

[Jeff Gluck]

I was born in the Bay Area. Yeah. I. I did go to. I went to college at University of Delaware. Although that was. That was part of what happened in California, because I grew up in the Bay Area, and my mom and I were at the World Series in 1989. My dad was out of town on a business trip, and he had gotten tickets through work, and he was like, hey, you go. You know, and. And I was a big A's fan at the time, and it was the Giants and the A's. It was the Bay Bridge Series and all that stuff. Yeah. And we're sitting there waiting for the game to start, and all of a sudden, the stadium's, like, going like this. Yeah. Yeah. I was nine. I was nine years old.

[Kenny (Host)]

World news.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yes. And so I. I never saw the game. And we made it back home. It took us hours and hours to get home. The bridges were down, all this stuff. And my mom said once my dad got home from his business trip, we're not living in California anymore. Let's move. Why don't you find somewhere else to raise the family? Because this doesn't seem like a safe place with these earthquakes. I don't want to do this earthquake stuff again.

[Kenny (Host)]

This is a big deal.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah. We ended up moving a couple years later to. To Denver, where I live now, because my parents have still lived here all this time. And, you know, I think because of that, I. Because I had left the place that I sort of grew up. It wasn't. I never felt like, well, I need to go back there or stay there. I don't need to go to college there. I need to be around. Around all my friends. I already. I had already uprooted, so I was interested in sports. So I'm like, well, I'm. I'm just. Why don't I go to the East Coast? That's where all the sports are. They've got, you know, in Denver. No, you know, the closest other big city is, you know, like, Kansas City or something. It's like, eight hours away. So I'm like, let's go to. Let's go to the East Coast. You've got New York city, you've got D.C. baltimore, Philly, Boston. They're all there. Like, sports, man. So Delaware University of Delaware is sort of like, right in the middle of all. All that. You know, you could take a train anywhere.

[Kenny (Host)]

I was like, this is.

[Jeff Gluck]

I could go to all these games. I mean, this is. I'm going to cross up all these stadiums and see all. All this stuff. And I thought I wanted to be a sports announcer at the time, which I'm really glad I didn't try to do that, because I don't have the voice for that. That would have been a total bust. But when I was looking through the course catalog at Delaware, I'm flipping through, you know, I don't even know if they have course catalogs like, this paper version anymore, you know, but you're looking. What are the classes I could take? And there was this class called Sports Writing, and it said in the course description that you will go to games as part of the assignment, like Phillies. And I was like, there's a class where you get to go to, like, Phillies games and Sixers games and stuff? Yeah. I was like, that's what. That's crazy. So I emailed the professor, and I was like, can I get into your class? And he's like, no, not if you're. If you haven't written before. It's just for, like, people are trying to be sports writers. I was like, well, I'll do whatever. Like, he's like, all right, we'll start. Start writing for the school paper at the same time, and I'll let you in the class as long as you start writing. I'm like, okay, I'm a sports writer now. And I just thought. I remember we went out to. We went out to. It was a Phillies Cardinals game when Mark McGuire was on the team. And we get on the field for batting practice, and we're standing there, and McGuire is in the cage, and he's just like, you know, crushing this stuff out at the old Veterans Stadium. And I'm like, I cannot believe this is a job. That is ridiculous. Yeah, all right. So, like, I'm going to do that. So I just started. I just started being a sports. I said, I'm a sports writer now. And I just started going on that path. And that was how it happened.

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[Kenny (Host)]

Let's fast forward just a little bit. So, first of all, I think you're really good at your job. You, you know, my brother Rusty would say to me, herm, you, you take your knife and you get right to their flesh, but you never really puncture. And, and I kind of feel like you're that type of person, too. You're provocative. You rough the sport up when it needs to be roughed up. And where I'm going to is we all get roughed up in life. I, you know, I've been fired, you know, from furniture Row. Felix Sabata, insp. And there was a time in your career that you found yourself not out of a job, but I believe you, the fans were maybe sending you some money to, to stay alive. And I, I thought that was not stay alive. You know what I mean? Stay in the game. I thought that was awesome. I thought that you were kind of a survivor. And I believe I got on Twitter and cheer John, tell me about that, that period.

[Jeff Gluck]

Yeah, well, first of all, I think you, you nailed it there about, like, the provocative stuff or whatever. Like, earlier in my career, I think I was way stronger on opinions and stuff like that, to the point where one time a NASCAR PR woman came up to me and she said, why don't you just own it? I said, well, own what? She's like, you, you, I know you. You're an, you want to be an. And why don't you just, you know, you're so negative. Why don't you just own it? And, and, you know, I think she wanted me, me to be like a skip Bayless or something. I'm like, well, I, I don't, I don't view myself that way. I just feel like I, I, I care about the sport and I have strong opinions. She's like, well, it doesn't come off that way. You know, you. All you do is be negative kind of stuff. And, you know, I. I realized at the time, I. I don't really have it in me to. To be sort of like a hot take artist. You could probably actually be. You know, you look at a Skip Bayless, right? Like, he's made an entire career off yelling about stuff and taking. He probably doesn't even believe half the stuff he says, but he's making millions on TV because he's being provocative. Yeah. And. And, you know, he can obviously look himself in the mirror at the end of the day and feel okay about it, probably while he's counting all his money. But I felt like I. I don't really want to be that way. If I have an opinion, I think it's okay to share it. But I also realize that maybe, you know, number one, you don't have to go all in, because a lot of times, if you say something, the fans already can pick it up from there. You don't need to, like, slam people over the head with it. They know. Right. And, you know, second of all, you. You can't just be angry about every single thing. You gotta people, you, You. You will. It'll be boy who cried wolf kind of thing. Like, your voice will be drowned out if you say. If you're outraged about this and now this. And sometimes people say, what do you think about this? Are you mad about this? I'm like, no, that one, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna spend my energy on that one. So I think that's just a little bit of experience. But the other time you're talking about, I was at USA Today, and my wife was trying to get a job at a children's hospital. She's what they call a child life specialist, who is somebody who, you know, the nurse will come into the room, you know, help the kid out or whatever. Then they got to leave. They got to go to the next room. Well, a lot of times, the kid. They might not even have their parents there. They might be alone. They might be scared about what's happening to them. So a lot of these children's hospitals have child life specialists who come in, kind of comfort them, might distract them, talk to them about what's going on, kind of, you know, just almost like a counselor in a way kind of thing. So my wife wanted to do that, and she wasn't gonna be able to get a job in Charlotte. So I told USA Today, hey, like, I'm gonna have to relocate somewhere, and I'll just fly the races from there. And the sports editor at the time said, no, you can't do that. And I was like, well, really? Why? I mean, I don't. I don't do any. I'm talking. I'm going to the race shops in Charlotte every day. I just do my work from the track. And. And he wasn't a NASCAR guy. I don't really think he understood how it all went. And he said. He told me not having our NASCAR writer in Charlotte would be like not having our Notre Dame beat writer in South Bend. So you can't do it. And I'm like, I. I don't agree, but all right, so I'm gonna have to quit because I'm not gonna tell my wife, well, you can't go help the children at the children's hospital. Yeah, so I can stay in Charlotte. So then it was sort of like, okay, here's my situation, right? Like, I've quit this job. I'm going to try to start my own website. It's either going to work, and I'm going to be able to stay afloat, or that's the end. And it wasn't like, I was like,

[Kenny (Host)]

you love your wife.

[Jeff Gluck]

I mean, that was the decision, right? Like, and so there's other jobs out there. So I put it to the fans, like, okay, like, here's a way you can support me if you've enjoyed my work and you want to keep going. I mean, this is not the ideal situation, but here's a way you can put in $2 a month, $5 a month, whatever, and I'll. I'll try to stick around and go to the races. If not, hey, I. I understand, you know, people don't want to pay for that. And. And I'll. I'm gone, okay? Like, it's just. I'll go work at Starbucks or drive Uber or whatever. And I was okay with that. Like, I was kind of at peace with however it was going to come out. And it just turned out to be really, really good. The opposite way. Like, everybody pitched in. And I had enough people that were like, I think I ended up having, you know, say. I think it was maybe close to, like, a thousand people. And, you know, it was donating between, like, say, $2 a month. Most were $2 a month, $10 a month, something like that. So I had some people go even higher than that. I mean, it wasn't, you know, everybody, but, you know, people put in what they wanted to, and it was enough to keep me going. And it was like, this is amazing, because the only people I had to answer to were the readers, right? I didn't have to try to get clicks on my website. I didn't have to. It was just like, all right, what do you guys want to read about? I don't have to. I don't have to chase stuff or try to do Cheap Trick type stuff. I'm just like, here you go. So that was a really. That was a really great time in my career.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, I thought it was badass. You fall underneath something that kind of saved my life. And it goes like this. Your life will not change until you change your life. And I admire you for being a badass. So well done. I want to make a change. You know, we're just raw here. So look at this. Okay, so this is. You know, it's 274,000 followers. Twitter, 274,000. That. That's a lot. That is a lot. You know, so, like, that's over a quarter of a million people. Sometimes we all get lost in these numbers. You know, I'm like, well, you know, Bush Stadium, the World Series, the Cardinals, it's sold out at like 40,000. So where I'm going with this is. Is you have a huge following and something that has made you very popular. And I'm betting it wasn't planned. They say some of the best plan things are things we don't plan. And it's. And I want to go through these three. You became extremely popular, and people are copying you. All the race car drivers, all the racetracks. You became popular for quiet track, which meant the races were over. Everybody's gone. And look here, I'm the only one left. And you took a picture of these racetracks, and nobody's there except you. The next one was one of my favorites. 12 questions with drivers. Now we're going to go through these. I just. Getting them out here. The 12 questions with drivers is brilliant. Gives everybody a quick preview into their life. And then you always have that driver give you a question for the next driver you're going to interview. And then the one that I think is very provocative. In a good way. In a good way. Was it a good race? And I think, was it a good race? Is incredibly serious. And I would bet that if NASCAR doesn't look at that every damn time you do it, I think they're lying, because I look, I look. And at times you're getting 30,000 people to vote. What is Your highest number, people that voted on. Was it a good race?

[Jeff Gluck]

I think it's in the mid-30s. I think maybe it might have been this year. Daytona 500. I think anytime Dale Jr. Retweets the was it a good race? Poll. Yeah, that gets like another 10,000 or something. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's very interesting. That one in particular, because I've gotten that one all. All three of those were pretty much by accident. Yeah.

[Kenny (Host)]

Let's go back. I don't want. Okay. Quiet track. Do you remember, like, was it a mistake? When was the first time you just did that?

[Jeff Gluck]

I don't even remember. That's a good question. My first one would have been. I mean, because here's the thing, like, what happens from a media standpoint is after the race, you run out on pit road and the winners doing their burnouts. The fans are going nuts. You know, the pick. You know, the cars come down pit road and, well, back then it was driving to the garage or whatever, and, you know, they're getting out, the crews are tearing everything down. And you get your post race interviews and you run back into the media center, right? You start writing and you. And then the post race press conference happens, and you're writing that and you're. You're inside for about three hours, you're digging, and all of a sudden you're done with your work and you don't even realize what's happened outside the walls. You know, some of these places have no windows, whatever, right? And you come out and you start walking to your car and you're like, wow, it is completely peaceful and quiet. Like a park, a city park or something, like at night. And there's like, nobody here. It's just like, you know, you can hear the wind. It's so quiet.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff Gluck]

And it just struck me like, man, here a few hours ago, all these stands were filled with people going nuts. The track was loud with cars, like, screaming by. You know, you had the pit stops, you know, making all the noise with tire changes and all that stuff. And now it's just completely quiet at the same spot. Just like, everybody's gone. And it just struck me like, man, this is. It was like, so peaceful. So I started, like, I would just go out and like, kind of sit for a few minutes and be like, wow, that's crazy. So I just started taking a picture, sort of capture that moment, like, quiet track instead of the loud track that we had just seen. And then, you know, it's just like a habit, right? You did it one Week. Let's do it the next week. Do it the next week. And I think I've probably been doing it for 14 years now or something. I mean, probably whenever. The cell phone technology that we used to have, the first early camera phones or whatever. Yeah, that was probably when I started doing it so.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, it is brilliant because I always say dirt fans don't like nascar, and. And even they're copying you now, even the promoters at the dirt track. So I think that's wonderful that that's something that is trademarked by you. It's not trademarked. I guess not. But still, what they say, the biggest form of flattery is people wanting to be you. So, okay, the second one. 12 questions with drivers. Ah, that has become very popular. Must read because it's quick and you get a lot of information. Tell me about that one. How did that start?

[Jeff Gluck]

So I wanted to do well. I was working for SB Nation in 2010. I were working for scene. NASCAR scene. NASCAR scene shut down. So I went to this blog site, SB Nation, and they said, we don't know anything about nascar. Do whatever you want, but try to get people reading. I just thought, you know, at the time, it was the top 12 in points, made the playoffs.

[Kenny (Host)]

Oh, okay.

[Jeff Gluck]

So I said, why don't I do something where I Talk? I do 12 questions with all the drivers outside the top 12, because we don't get to hear from them as much. You know, say it was like a Reed Sorensen at the time or something. Right? Like, let's. Let me. Let me figure out a way to spotlight these drivers. We're already hearing from Jeff Gordon every week. We're already hearing from Dale Jr every week. Let's do the drivers outside the top 12. So I did this thing. I think it was called 12 out of 12 originally. And then I realized, number one, that changes all the time during the season, right? Like, somebody might start bad and go in the top 12, or somebody might start in the top 12, fall out. And number two, I was running out of drivers pretty quickly because do a full season. So then by the next year, I was like, all right, now it's just 12 questions. I just kept the 12 number. But my. My goal is, like, you hear the drivers get asked the same questions all the time, right? Like, what do you have any superstitions before the race? What do you eat before the race? Do you ever pee in the race car? You know? Right.

[Kenny (Host)]

That one's really famous.

[Jeff Gluck]

Like, you. If you go to any driver appearance, you sort of hear the same stuff. Pop up. And you hear it in the media, too. And you. Whenever a driver gets asked a question that you know they've answered a hundred times, instead, you can almost see them check out a little bit because then they go into this mode of like, all right, here's my recited answer. So I just thought, well, what if I could come up with 12 questions each year and change them each year that are, like, stuff that they either don't get asked very often or have never been asked before at all? So that's sort of been the goal with that. Like, how can I get. How can I get these guys to show personality? Let's find out more about them. But not in the same way that we always hear the same stuff. So I, I personally have fun with it, honestly, because it's honestly a chance for me to get to know them better. Because you go through a whole season, sometimes you just see people, you're like, hey, how's it going? You might talk to them about, how's your car? But I'm like, well, Todd Gilliland, tell me, what makes you tick? I don't know. You know, what do you. Why are you doing this stuff like that? So that's, That's. That's the most fun thing I do. Just because it's like, almost an excuse to talk to people about life. I mean, you. You're amazing at these. Like, I, I look forward to yours every year maybe more than anybody, so.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, you're therapeutic for me. I find that when people ask me questions about things, sometimes, you know, it's fun. It takes me through there, kind of answer myself.

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[Kenny (Host)]

so the third one, which is the last one for right now until you make up more, was it a good race? To me, this one gets everybody's goat, meaning this is the one that makes everybody check themselves. Because for me, it's like, I could say, man, that was not a good race. And then all of a sudden, you look on your poll and there's 30,000 people that voted, and you were like, wow, I'm way off base. I'm not, you know, because all these people think it was a good race. Maybe. Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm a little rough around the edges. Maybe it was a good race, but my driver just didn't do good. So was it a good race? Where were you at? How did that moment start?

[Jeff Gluck]

So it was 2016. It was the second race of the year. It was Atlanta at the time, and NASCAR was trying another one of their new packages. I think it was one of the lower downforce packages or something. And they had said, we're try trying this package so we can improve the racing at intermediates. Yeah. So I just thought, okay, well, after the race, why don't I just ask people, was it good? Did you like it? Did it work? Essentially, right. Did what NASCAR was trying to do work? And then, you know, maybe the next week was Vegas or something. And I just thought, okay, well, why don't I ask it again and then I can compare it. So then I just asked it again and, like, seriously, that was all it was at the time. I had never any intention of, I'm going to start this thing, and now I'm going to be doing it for, you know, seven years. Every single race, every week, it was just, hey, you know, this is a. This is a sport where we talked about a little bit earlier, but, like, NASCAR is always about the fans, or they always say, we're trying to make the fans happy. That is rules, package changes, format changes, playoff changes, all sorts of things. Right. And it's all about the entertainment. It's all about the fan. So that is my question. Did it work? Did. Did you like this?

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff Gluck]

I've gotten a lot of blowback over the years from people saying, why, you know, people in. Within the industry don't ask people this. You're. You're making them think of whether it was good or bad. Not everything needs to be good or bad. Maybe they just enjoyed it and. And that's it. But I'll tell you what changed it. When I started covering Chili bowl and Knoxville Nationals and started getting to those more, because as you know, with dirt racers, a lot of the, the conversation is about, well, the track wasn't really that good tonight. Yeah. And sorry it was. It got rubbered in too much or it turned to be one groove and you know, or too much water.

[Kenny (Host)]

Right. Yeah, right.

[Jeff Gluck]

Right.

[Kenny (Host)]

Half farmer so and so.

[Jeff Gluck]

But that is a, that is a fair. I mean to, to me, I view dirt racing as like the most pure racing on the planet. Right. Like that is, that is the essence of racing. And so I thought, well, if those guys are talking every week about was it was, was the track good, was it good racing? And because their, their entire point, even though they are true racers, is to make the, they're trying to make the fans happy and entertained so that the fans will come back and like their product. They're not looking at it and going, well, yeah, it's, it's a one groove track and it's all rubbered in. But too bad we're going to do this because this is how we like to race. No, they're like, no, we, we need, it's about the show, what will make a good show for people. So that sort of alleviated my.

[Kenny (Host)]

You felt good stuff.

[Jeff Gluck]

Exactly. I thought if Brad Sweet is coming up after the race saying, yeah, you know, we just kind of missed it tonight track prep wise and hopefully next time we come back here we'll make, make a little bit less dusty or whatever it is. Yeah, I thought, well that's totally fair then why can't you ask that? So I'm going to keep going.

[Kenny (Host)]

Oh yeah, you have to.

[Jeff Gluck]

But I have heard from, from nascar. They've told me like, hey, we do, we do look at the poll and you know, it's something that we use along with other things. And I do want to remind people though, it's not a scientific poll, it's still a Twitter poll. Right. Like you're supposed to only be able to get one vote and I think it, it does a good job with that. But it's not, it's not like, you know, it's, it's an online poll, so take what you want out of it. It doesn't, it could be right, it could not be right. I don't know.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, it's all good and it gives us all something to look at and you should be commended for definitely. If everything you've done those three things. Quiet track 12 questions. Was it a good race? It's like somebody, you know, an artist, whether they sing, whatever they do, you, you've got three hits and, and I think that's awesome. All right, buddy. So, man, oh, man, 50 minutes. The fans always tease me, Jeff. They go, you. You keep talking about time, but I. But I like to tell my guests, we're already 50 minutes into this, so we're. We're coming to an end here because the Herminator really likes to keep it under an hour. Me and you start drinking more, we're getting cottonmouth. And so I ask everybody in NASCAR this. It started to be only drivers, but now it's people that are in the sport. Three things. So your opinion on NASCAR today? What is it?

[Jeff Gluck]

I think NASCAR today is in the best place it's been in the last decade. But when I got in nascar, it was. That's going to be tough to ever match that. That was, like, in the early 2000s, through the roof. Yeah. But it went down for a while, right? Like, and it was not in a good place for a while. And I felt like a lot of the moves they were making were bad moves. And I was very upset about a lot of it because I just felt like, man, I've seen the sport be great, and I know it can be great again. And I don't know why they would try to do some of this stuff. I just don't get it. But I feel like the current leadership has done a way better job of trying to be smart about things, particularly with the schedule, you know, making sure that there's enough new elements to have something to talk about. But they're also, I think, realizing, like, hey, we've. We've got to keep some core things on our schedule, and sometimes it's a correcting mistake that goes back that. Like, I think the indie road course, for example. Right. Like, I didn't like that. I didn't like Bristol Dirt. Now they're going back. They've reversed both those. Right. So it's like, okay, they tried something. They didn't. It didn't work. But, you know, at least they. They change it up. They keep it different. They give us some Chicago street race I thought was a smash hit. Yeah, I'm excited about Iowa. You know, hopefully they can go international, Montreal or something at some point. So I think. I think their hearts are in the right places. I think that they. I think I. I have a lot more confidence in the current group than, say, know, five, six years ago, even. So. Yeah, that's. That's my. That's my opinion of that, I think.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah. Yeah. I like Jim France, Ben Kennedy, Steve Phelps. I like Jim the most just because I think he's old school. I, I, you know, he just, it just reminds me of the old, you know, Bill France days. Okay, so two more here. What is your opinion right now of the next gen car?

[Jeff Gluck]

I just think, I mean, first of all, they end up backing into this unbelievable occurrence that I'm not sure anybody could ever thought would happen, which is to make the intermediate tracks the best tracks in nascar. Like, who, who would have ever. Even when you're saying, all right, we're gonna do this next gen car and here's, here's the thing, we're having this next gen car, it's going to be particularly good on road courses. And because we're doing all these things and it's going to be sort of almost like a sports car, Nobody, not one sane person would have said at the time, hey, you know what? I bet this is going to make the mile and a half tracks the best they've ever been in NASCAR history and pretty much ruin the short tracks and the road courses.

[Kenny (Host)]

Right?

[Jeff Gluck]

Like, how did this happen? I don't know how it happened, but it has saved these places, like Kansas, Charlotte Oval, places like that. Now it's like, you gotta, oh, my gosh, you gotta watch these places. It's gonna be awesome.

[Kenny (Host)]

And just when Fontana got really good.

[Jeff Gluck]

Oh, my gosh, that is so painful.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff Gluck]

But I don't know how you're gonna fix the short tracks at this point and the road courses, but the short tracks are really concerned to me, because that, that was like the thing that you could always count on as, like, this is going to be, this is legit. Right. Like, so I almost wonder, like, if they go another year and the short track racing's still not that great. Like, can you, Is it, would it be possible in some universe to develop just a car that races on the short tracks, a next gen for short tracks, and then keep your current next gen for the mile and a half and super speedways, whatever.

[Kenny (Host)]

Because it should be able to, because the front and the back of the car literally bolt on.

[Jeff Gluck]

I mean, could, could. Is it possible? Like, yeah, because I don't, I don't. What I'm worried about, Kenny, what happens five years from now? If this is just how the short tracks are and the new fan and all stuff, they go, oh, this is, they, they have never experienced how great short tracks used to be. I, I don't want people to lose that because that is the heart of nascar. That's the soul of nascar. So that worries me.

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah. Coming to the very end Here now. So this year we saw the record penalties, fines. You know, of course, Hendrick was all. All the teams together. $400,000. And by the way, we've been doing this so long that the sun is changing. I know it's getting on your. It's okay. I love it. I love it. That's how this is the last one, so. Yeah. But let's be obvious. There it is. So what is your opinion on the fines and penalties and the way they go about tech inspection? So precise.

[Jeff Gluck]

I'm torn. Yeah, I'm really torn in some aspects. I like that they're keeping them honest because I want to. I want to believe that it's as straight up as possible. They're not letting people get away with stuff. They're not letting. Because I want to know, like, hey, the best driver and the best team won. You know, I. I get that part of it. I also really like what they started doing this year, is showing us what these teams are doing. Hey, we're going to call it. Come out. Come on in the NASCAR holler. You'll never believe what time and Jet Ski's team was doing, you know, stuff like that, Right? And I get that was. That turned out to be an old school trick with bleeding the tires and stuff. But for me, not being a true racer. I didn't know that. I never heard of that. You know, I thought, wow, that is so interesting that you could have a bleeder valve like. Like that.

[Kenny (Host)]

Tell the fans what they. Tell the fans what they do, Jeff. They. They put the cheater parts on display. Is this right?

[Jeff Gluck]

Well, it's. It's even beyond that because now they used to just, you know, they put them on a table or something. And I was never technical enough back in those days to go by and say, oh, yeah, that's what they did right there. Oh, I could see it. I don't know. But now they have the series director, they call the media and they say, all right, here's the real one, or here's. Here's a legit one. Here's this one. Look at the difference. And guess what? See this opening? Nope. See, this is going to allow more air. And they explain why it would help you, why they might do this kind of thing, what it was doing. And you. And it's an education. You're like, wow. So first of all, you go, boy, the ingenuity of these people in the garage, it's actually, it actually makes me appreciate the crew chiefs even more because you go. You always think, all right, they're doing something. But what does doing something mean?

[Kenny (Host)]

Yeah.

[Jeff Gluck]

And you see it, you're like, wow, that is really smart. Too bad they got caught. But that's really smart. And then you go, well, good on nascar, because I can't remember what the specific part was this year. The hood.

[Kenny (Host)]

The hood louvers was a big deal at the end of the day.

[Jeff Gluck]

That was huge. Yeah, that was huge. Let more air out NASCAR for one of the parts this year that was supposed to be a 3D printed part or whatever that, you know, was single source supplier. NASCAR had hidden markings in it, a certain pattern, and they didn't tell anybody about it. And then when they. It was only visible to them. They only knew where it was, like these certain lines. And when they thought this one was illegal, they looked. They said, it doesn't have those lines. We knew it. It's not the same. So I. I do kind of like that. I just wonder if it does take some of the creativity and the fun out of the sport, because that's what racing was built on. So, you know, are you going to lose that too much? Are all the cars going to be around the same speed? And then it's purely. Purely about track position, pit stops, you know, clean air. I don't want to hear too much more about that. I want to. I want guys to be able to race. So that one's inconclusive for me a little bit because I. I don't know where it's all going.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, I really appreciate it, Jeff. You've been wonderful. You know, people say, well, tell me about this Kenny conversation. I said, man, it's no different than being at your gas station. And somebody says, what did you think of Bubba and Kyle Larson? And you start talking. And that's what we do here. So listen up, everybody. We are in podcast form. You can listen to Jeff Gluck on your way to work. And since it's so long, you get back in your vehicle and you listen to us on the way home. Until next time, the Kenny conversation just keeps on rolling. And Jeff Gluck, thank you so much, my friend.

[Jeff Gluck]

This was. I mean, I. I'm seriously. This was an absolute honor for me. Thank you so much for asking me to come on. I. Again, Missouri Sports hall of Famer. I'm on Stop it with hall of Famer. That's amazing. But you are. You are so good for the sport. You. You have such good insight. I'm so glad that you have. You know, you were. You were so early on social media, one of the the earliest people in all of NASCAR on it. And now I feel like this is the next evolution of that for you. This YouTube stuff that you're doing, you have embraced yet another medium, yet another part of this, which I am slow on. I'm slow on video. You are all over this, and so

[Kenny (Host)]

you are working for a living. I'm retired. It's just.

[Jeff Gluck]

I mean, you. You continue to push forward and adapt, and this is all about. This is all about adapting. Survive, you know, survive or die kind of thing. Right? Adapt or die. So kudos to you for doing that. This is a great thing you're doing, and I'm glad you're adding this content out the world. It's great for racing. So thank you.

[Kenny (Host)]

Well, Jeff, thank you so much. And we are at that time of Thanksgiving and New Year's and Christmas, so have the best winter ever, and we'll see you at the next racetrack. Goodbye, everybody. Check out dirty mo media on twitter, facebook, TikTok and instagram.