Herm & Schrader Podcast – "How Ray Evernham Changed NASCAR Forever"

Dirty Mo Media | October 2, 2025
Hosts: Kenny Wallace & Ken Schrader
Guest: Ray Evernham (NASCAR Hall of Famer, legendary Crew Chief)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Kenny Wallace sits down with NASCAR Hall of Fame crew chief Ray Evernham to unpack how Evernham’s relentless innovation, organizational expertise, and partnership with Jeff Gordon rewrote the playbook for modern NASCAR. The conversation spans Ray’s early days in New Jersey, the fateful transition from driver to crew chief after a head injury, his pioneering approach to team building, and the rise of Hendrick Motorsports as a dynasty. Packed with behind-the-scenes stories, technical deep dives, and memorable moments, the episode explores not only how Evernham changed racing, but how his impact still reverberates throughout motorsports today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ray's Racing Roots and Turning Points

• Growing Up on the Jersey Shore
  • Ray recalls starting out as an asphalt modified driver in Hazlett, New Jersey, racing against legends like Richie Evans and Jerry Cook.
    • "I'm from the Jersey shore, not the Jersey Shore you see on TV. The real Jersey Shore." — Ray [03:19]
• Career-Altering Injury
  • In 1991, a serious wreck at Flemington left Ray with a brain stem injury, forcing the end of his driving career.
    • “For the first time in my life, I was the weak link...I was holding the car and the team back, and I just said, you know, guys, I'm done.” — Ray [09:24]
• Opportunity Knocks with Jeff Gordon
  • Recommended by Andy Petrie, Ray first worked with a young Jeff Gordon in the Busch Grand National days, leading to a partnership that would change NASCAR.

The IROC & Penske Influence: Learning to Organize to Win

• Inside the Penske Culture
  • Ray credits Jay Signore (IOCR) and Roger Penske with teaching him rigorous team organization, man-hour tracking, and preparation, which later informed every championship team he built.
    • "That organizational stuff Jay Signore taught me allowed us to do our job more efficiently...leaving more time to figure out how to make the car faster." — Ray [11:21]
    • “Inside the Penske organization...it is a winning culture. It's a continuous improvement culture. And it's military.” — Ray [13:30]
• Practical Wisdom on Winning
  • Advice from Penske: "The unfair advantage simply just means outworking your competition to find a way to win." — Ray quoting Penske [13:10]

Transition to NASCAR: Trials, Clashes, and Community

• Brush with Alan Kulwicki
  • Ray’s stint at Alan Kulwicki’s team was short-lived—personality clashes culminating (literally) in throwing tools.
    • "By the third or fourth day, we were literally throwing stuff at one another in the shop." — Ray [18:16]
    • “I quit. You’re fired. Whatever...I stormed out the gate.” — Ray [19:30]
• Unsung Helpers & The Power of Racing Community
  • Ray shares gratitude for the often unsung supporters (like the Barkdahl family), and reflects on the racing community’s impact on his journey.
    • “The only thing we can say to those people is thank you. You didn’t waste your time on me, you didn’t waste your money.” — Ray [21:44]

Re-Engineering the Game: Baby Ruth Car & Chassis Innovation

• Transforming the Baby Ruth Ford
  • Hired by Ford/Bill Davis Racing, Ray revolutionized the front-end geometry on Jeff Gordon’s Busch car, immediately boosting performance.
    • “I checked the front ends...they had never checked any of that...I built a whole center link, welded up holes, put taper in there...we go to Rockingham and sit on the pole.” — Ray [27:12]
  • Kenny: “You put a real long A-frame on that thing with a lot of spacers...this sticks in my head.” [28:36]
• Early Experimentation With Spring Setups
  • Ray shares early stories of out-of-the-box setups (massive rear spring changes) that paved the way for daring future innovations.
    • “I’m gonna go up 100 pounds on the rear springs...and we go down there and win the race.” — Ray [30:35]

The Hendrick Years: Building a Dynasty With Jeff Gordon

• Genesis of the #24 Team
  • After their Busch success, Gordon was approached by multiple Cup teams, but insisted on Ray as his crew chief—a condition only Rick Hendrick honored.
    • “Jeff’s got an offer...but he told them ‘I want to bring Ray’...The other car owners said ‘no,’ but Rick said ‘you’re going to be the crew chief...Take it or leave it.’” — Ray [34:25, 43:22]
• Culture Shift and Engineering Revolution
  • At Hendrick, Ray implemented stringent standards (“plus or minus zero” not “an eighth”) and pushed for dedicated pit crews and unleashing engineers.
    • “No more 350/400 in the rear...No more plus or minus an eighth. We’re gonna make it plus or minus zero.” — Ray [45:58]
    • “By ‘95, ‘96, our Hendrick cars were so far ahead of everybody else…” — Ray [46:55]
• Pioneering the Modern Pit Crew
  • Ray was the first to recruit fresh athletes as dedicated pit crew specialists, reducing four-tire stop times from 20+ seconds to under 15.
    • “We sometimes used eight or nine men. You could only have seven over the wall, but they did not have to be the same seven at that time.” — Ray [67:06]
    • “You knocked five damn seconds...The Wood Brothers are the legends, but you...changed the game.” — Kenny [68:55-69:09]

Mantras, Leadership, and Team Psychology

• ‘Refuse to Lose’—and Other Motivational Slogans
  • The “Refuse to Lose” mantra was co-opted (with permission) from UMass basketball’s John Calipari and set the tone for team culture.
    • “You couldn’t go in the bathroom and stand in front of the urinal without having to read something motivational.” — Ray [57:40]
  • Ray pulled from Pat Riley’s book “The Winner Within,” creating a wall of goals: Upstart → Contender → Winner → Champion → Dynasty.
    • "I still have that checklist here...from nobody to upstart, upstart to contender...champion to dynasty." — Ray [59:34]
• True Teamwork With Jeff Gordon
  • The success of the Gordon/Evernham duo was built on trust, communication, and mutual respect.
    • "He would say to me, 'I feel like this when I'm turning the wheel...'" — Ray [39:37]
    • "Your job is to fix what [the driver] is saying is wrong... Until you can drive that car faster than that guy, don't tell him how to drive it." — Ray [40:47]

Technical Mastery in Action: The T-Rex Car

• The Urban Legend Explained
  • At the 1997 All-Star Race (“The Winston”), the radical “T-Rex” chassis (conceptualized with Rex Stump) was so dominant NASCAR told them never to bring it back.
    • “The chassis was so different…with the floor pan raised, underbody aerodynamics. Man, that thing just…it was like sucked to the ground.” — Ray [78:46]
    • “[Bill France Sr.] said, ‘Tell your boss that car is illegal.’ I said, ‘No...it fits all the rules.’ He goes, ‘It won’t tomorrow.’” — Ray [77:55]
  • Ray’s famously unorthodox spring setup—equal front and rear springs, a massive anti-roll bar—unlocked untapped speed.
    • “I kind of choose [the setup] out of my head. Going back to my modified days and thinking about all that split spring stuff—and it just took off.” — Ray [79:33, 81:05]
• Revolutionizing Suspension Setup
  • The innovation wasn’t just technical, but mental—a willingness to question the gospel of previous setups and use chassis rigidity to allow radical new approaches.
    • “Now, there it is...I hope all you racers heard that; that was for my son-in-law Brody.” — Kenny [82:48]

Evernham’s Legacy: Beyond Hendrick, Into the Modern Era

• Launching Evernham Motorsports and the Dodge Return
  • Leaving Hendrick, Ray took on the enormous challenge of creating a top-flight NASCAR team from scratch for Daimler Chrysler and Dodge.
    • “You always have that question: can I do this without the support of them?...We won in our first year, ended up winning at the Brickyard.” — Ray [84:35]
  • Evernham candidly admits the massive scale and management demands didn’t fulfill him like building and wrenching on cars did.
    • “I wanted to be down on the floor working on them damn race cars.” — Ray [84:35]
• Enduring Appeal for Organizational Expertise
  • To this day, Ray is called on to start up organizations, run special racing projects (like the Heritage Invitational), and consult on racing TV (e.g., SRX, Americana TV).

NASCAR's Business and Future: Reflection and Real Talk

• On Cup Charters and the Business of NASCAR
  • Kenny and Ray riff on the paradox: “If NASCAR’s failing, why do charters cost $40 million?”
• Ray’s Prescription for the Sport
  • Asserts NASCAR can and will thrive as a business, but calls for more driver personality, more driver/crew chief control, and opportunity for “kids who want to race anywhere, anytime.”
    • “I’d like to see more of the personality like yours, like your brother’s, like Dale Earnhardt...I want to know who they are behind the scenes.” — Ray [99:45]
    • “I also feel like I would like to see the drivers and crew chiefs have more ability to adjust the car to suit the way they want to drive it…NASCAR as a business is still going to continue to grow...” — Ray [97:57, 99:45]
    • “Huge Kyle Larson fan for that reason…those guys that will race anywhere, anytime, just because they want to race.” — Ray [100:36]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I felt like for the first time in my life, I was the weak link…I'm done. I'm moving to North Carolina.” — Ray [09:24]
• “The unfair advantage means outworking your competition to win.” — Ray [13:10]
• “We refuse to lose.” — Ray [56:17]
• “I just love working on race cars.” — Ray [84:35]
• “If we can't win here, we can't win anywhere, because everything you could possibly ever need is there.” — Ray on Hendrick [36:00]
• “Why would you spend $40 million if you can't make money? That's just common sense, right?” — Ray [97:57]

Timeline of Essential Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Key Discussion | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:21 | Kenny introduces Ray; reminiscences about their history | | 04:26 | Ray describes racing history, career-changing injury | | 11:21 | Organizational lessons from Penske/Signore/IOCR | | 18:14 | Brief tenure (and clash) with Alan Kulwicki | | 27:12 | Fixing the Baby Ruth Ford's suspension – first signs of genius| | 34:25 | Rick Hendrick hires Ray after Jeff Gordon insists | | 45:58 | Overhauling Hendrick operations, pushing for engineering | | 57:40 | Motivational mantras and building team culture | | 65:38 | Reinventing the pit crew – athlete specialists | | 71:09 | The T-Rex car story – myth, reality, legacy | | 84:35 | Leaving Hendrick, starting Evernham Motorsports (Dodge) | | 91:27 | Ongoing projects: Americana TV, SRX, IROC/Heritage | | 97:49 | Honest perspective on NASCAR business, future of the sport |

Tone & Final Reflections

The conversation is warm, funny, and forthright—Kenny Wallace’s effusive midwestern charm coaxing out raw honesty and countless war stories from Ray. The mutual respect is palpable, and the storytelling is as much about humble gratitude as it is about technical mastery and ambition. The episode is a love letter to racing, to friendship, and to the relentless itch to improve.

Kenny’s closing tribute:

“Life is a journey and we forget sometimes we forget these segments of our life. But you are one of the greatest of all time… Never downplay yourself, because your legend is—you are a legend. And legend means: what did he do? Oh, he changed NASCAR forever.” — Kenny [96:05]

For Listeners

Whether you’re a race fan, a competitor, or a student of leadership, “How Ray Evernham Changed NASCAR Forever” is a master class in grit, innovation, and what it takes to build not just fast cars—but enduring legacies.

Listen on Dirty Mo Media or watch on the Kenny Wallace YouTube Show.