Irish Saunders Sheds Light on the NASCAR Tire Wars and Chasing a Dream at Hoosier Tire

Summary

Podcast Summary: Herm & Schrader — "Irish Saunders Sheds Light on the NASCAR Tire Wars and Chasing a Dream at Hoosier Tire"

Episode Details:

• Title: Irish Saunders Sheds Light on the NASCAR Tire Wars and Chasing a Dream at Hoosier Tire
• Hosts: Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader
• Release Date: February 27, 2025
• Platforms: Dirty Mo Media via SiriusXM

---

1. Introduction and Background

The episode kicks off with Kenny Wallace (Herm) introducing Irish Saunders, the iconic face of Hoosier Tires for four decades. Set against the picturesque backdrop of Swan Lake Resort in Plymouth, Indiana, Irish shares personal insights about his upbringing and deep-rooted connections to the racing community.

Herm:
"You're looking at one of the most important people in the world of auto racing. That is Irish Saunders."
[01:02]

2. Early Life and Introduction to Racing

Irish reminisces about his early exposure to racing, growing up in Lakeville, Indiana. From a young age, he was immersed in the racing scene, participating in motocross and assisting his father in race announcing at South Bend Motor Speedway.

Irish Saunders:
"When I was six months old, I was going to races. My father... I was a race track brat, per se."
[04:22]

3. Joining Hoosier Tires

In the summer of 1976, inspired by Hoosier's expansion in Lakeville, Irish sought employment with the company. Despite initial negotiations over compensation, Irish's passion and longstanding relationship with the Newton family secured his position. This marked the beginning of a 43-year tenure with Hoosier Tires.

Irish Saunders:
"Bob called me to come down there, and after a five-hour conversation, he offered me the job. I knew I didn’t want to back down in life."
[08:03]

4. The NASCAR Tire Wars with Goodyear

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the intense competition between Hoosier and Goodyear during the late '80s and '90s. Irish provides an insider’s perspective on how Hoosier entered NASCAR’s Cup Series in 1988, challenging Goodyear's dominance with bias-ply tires before transitioning to radial tires.

Irish Saunders:
"In 1989 at Daytona, Goodyear introduced radials, which were superior to our bias-ply tires. Despite the setbacks, we built and shipped tires daily to Daytona, culminating in Schrader’s pole position in the Daytona 500 on Hoosier Tires."
[20:39]

5. Influential Relationships and Memorable Stories

Irish shares heartfelt anecdotes about influential figures in racing, including Bob Newton, the visionary behind Hoosier Tires, and legendary drivers like Jeff Gordon and Rich Vogler. These stories highlight the collaborative spirit and mutual respect within the racing community.

Irish Saunders:
"Rich Vogler never forgot where he came from. He'd fly back to Plymouth after every race to discuss improvements with our engineers."
[17:00]

Herm:
"Haters are all failures. No one who is truly brilliant at anything is a hater." — Joe Rogan"
[41:20]

6. Challenges and Retirement from Hoosier Tires

Despite the passion and dedication, increasing costs and mounting pressures led to challenges within Hoosier Tires. A particularly distressing incident occurred in October when Irish was physically assaulted by a disgruntled individual at IRP, symbolizing the growing animosity faced by tire manufacturers. This event, coupled with persistent complaints, ultimately led Irish to retire from Hoosier.

Irish Saunders:
"After 36 years, and facing constant criticisms, especially after that assault at IRP, I decided it was time to step away from Hoosier."
[56:44]

7. Personal Life and Legacy

Beyond his professional life, Irish provides a glimpse into his personal journey. He discusses the tragic paralysis of his son, Eric, and the resilience his family has shown. Additionally, Irish touches upon ongoing projects aimed at making racing more affordable and accessible, ensuring his legacy continues to support the racing community.

Irish Saunders:
"After Eric was paralyzed, we focused on adapting his racing to his new needs, ensuring he could still compete and enjoy the sport he loves."
[52:04]

8. Conclusion and Reflections

The episode concludes with reflections on the evolution of racing and the challenges faced by tire manufacturers in maintaining quality and affordability. Irish emphasizes the importance of community, innovation, and persistence in overcoming obstacles, leaving listeners with a profound appreciation for the intricate dynamics of motorsports.

Herm:
"This was an incredible journey through your life and the racing industry, Irish. Thank you so much for sharing these stories."
[72:46]

Irish Saunders:
"It's been an honor, Kenny. Thank you for recognizing what we've built and continuing to support motorsports."
[74:13]

---

Notable Quotes and Highlights

• Early Passion for Racing:

  • "I was born and raised... I was going to races all my life."
    — Irish Saunders
    [04:42]

• Building Hoosier’s NASCAR Presence:

  • "We had to make tires that were fast but durable enough to last the race."
    — Irish Saunders
    [25:03]

• On Relationships and Trust:

  • "Bob Newton saw something in me from a young age. He was like a second father."
    — Irish Saunders
    [10:33]

• Facing Adversity:

  • "The cost of racing is getting so expensive... if one of those things goes away, they'll find another hobby."
    — Irish Saunders
    [60:05]

• Legacy and Innovation:

  • "Racing was about fixing problems and improving continuously."
    — Irish Saunders
    [62:37]

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers an in-depth exploration of Irish Saunders' monumental contributions to Hoosier Tires and the broader racing industry. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the turbulent tire wars with Goodyear, the internal dynamics of Hoosier Tires, and the enduring spirit of innovation and resilience that drives motorsports forward.

For those passionate about racing history, tire technology, and the stories that shape the sport, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

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[Irish Saunders]

Daredevil is Born again on Disney plus. Why did you stop being a vigilante? The line was crossed. Sometimes peace needs to be broken.

[Herm]

Chaos must reign.

[Irish Saunders]

On March 4th, the nine episode event begins. I was raised to believe in grace. But I was also raised to believe in retribution. Marvel Television's Daredevil born again. Don't miss the two episode premiere March 4th only on Disney Plus.

[Herm]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for anything you need to fix your everyday vehicle up or your hot rod. Well, you are looking at one of the most popular people in the whole world of auto racing industry. That is Irish Saunders. Irish was the representative and the face of Hoosier tires for 40 years. And we're going to talk all about Irish. He's retired now from Hoosier. Irish, how you doing man?

[Irish Saunders]

I'm doing great Herm. I'm doing absolutely fantastic.

[Herm]

I love the logo in the background. Where are you at?

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, well I'm at beautiful Swan Lake Resort in Plymouth, Indiana. Here. It's a golf resort with hotels and and indoor pool and spa. Two 18 hole golf courses. Herm, do you golf?

[Herm]

I am a golfer but you know, you bring up this other subject, Irish. I was unloading a race car a couple years ago. I torn two tenants 80%. So right now all I can do is chip. But yes, I like golfing. Can't drive right now but you know a one wood or.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, I can drive her. I can drive the golf cart real, real well but I can't. Yeah, I can't drive the rest of it.

[Herm]

Yeah, I can't drive the golf ball but well, you know I've raced at Plymouth when they put dirt on it. Now it's back. Now Plymouth Speedway is back to asphalt. But when I raced at Plymouth on Dirt. I stayed right there. Beautiful resort. Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

That's awesome. Yeah, it's two 18 hole golf courses here, Herm. It's on 520 acres and it's just, it's the best kept secret in northern Indiana. I've always said that. I mean, I was, I was born and raised here in Lakeville, you know. Yeah. You know, I live two miles. I live in the same house I was born and raised in and it's two miles from where Hoosier Tire corporate was at.

[Herm]

Hold on, that did not go over my head. Did you just say you still live in the house you were born in?

[Irish Saunders]

Absolutely. Bought it from my parents two miles from Hoosier.

[Herm]

Oh, my God, that is incredible. And you, and you still feel, feel good about it?

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, I feel great. I feel great. You know, the community here has been great. Went to school with the Newton girls. I mean, I mean, it's, you know, Bob's, you know, two daughters, went to high school with them. I mean, it's just, it's been a great little community. Lakeville is, you know.

[Herm]

You know what, let's, let's start right there. All right, everybody, that is Irish Saunders and we are going to celebrate his career. So when I read up on you, of course everybody knows you. You are the face of Hoosier Tire, even though you've retired, you know, and everybody knows that, man, you're looking at right now one of the most important people in the industry because Hoosier Tire is so big. They're everywhere. But let's start right there in Lakeville, Indiana, the Plymouth, Indiana area. Let's start right there. How in the world did you get involved in racing as a kid?

[Irish Saunders]

Well, you know, Herm, it goes back to when I was born. When I was six months old, I was going to races. My father, he was, he was from North Dakota. I'm sorry, South Dakota. And he moved back here. He was on his way to the Ed Sullivan show with a dog and pony show.

[Herm]

Oh, my gosh.

[Irish Saunders]

And he broke. And he broke down in South Bend, Indiana, Right. With his car. And he met my mother here in South Bend and they got married and I was born and they lived in Lakeville, the same house, like I say, I lived in. So I was going to races all my life. And you know, Herm, back when I was like 11, 12 years old, my mother would, I'd sit in the grandstands with my mom and my dad would be up in the tower and he'd be announced in the races. And back then you had the reel, the real tape recorders, Remember those? And I would sit there and I would announce the races while my dad was announcing. I do it myself. Well, just so happens, dad was announcing at South Bend Motor Speedway here, right? And a gentleman by the name of Louis Freeburn, it did that Freeburn track grinding. Do you remember that? Back in the day?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

He owned South Bend. And it was the summer of. It was the spring of 72. He says, hey, he says, your dad was playing a video or a recording of you announcing, and you sound pretty good. He said, how would you like to announce with your father? I'm like, yeah, great. So at 12 years old, Herm, I started announcing with my dad, right?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

So I've been around racing all my life. I raced motocross. In 1972, I started racing motocross until, I think 1979, I did that. So I was involved in that also. But I really loved racing. And my dad announced at different racetracks. So I was a racecrat race track brat, per se, that I would go to all the races. Kind of like your family, you know, you went to all of them, right? And I really enjoyed it. But during, I went to school at Lakeville elementary, and then I went to laville High School there in Lakeville. And in the summer of 76. So let me back up, rewind one more time here. In 74, Bob Newton had Hoosier was in South Bend, Indiana, and what he did is he moved out to Lakeville to build the recap shop because he was doing recaps. And he did that in Lakeville in 74. And as I'm riding the school bus, Herman, we drive by Hoosier on the Main highway on U.S. 31. I'm looking, I'm thinking, man, how cool would that be just to go there and work at that place?

[Herm]

Racing tires.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, how cool would that be? So. So the summer of 76, during summer break, I went in there and of course, I'd known Bob and the family because I went to school with the daughters, right? @ Leville.

[Herm]

Let's give a shout out to Mary Purvis right now. Mary, we love you. She is so good to me. She sponsored my dirt car. Mary Purvis, we love you, Mary.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, let me tell you something about Mary real quick. We have a lot of things in common, because you know what? We share the same birthday. March 17th. Oh, and that's how I got the name Irish. I was born on March 17, which is St. Patrick's Day.

[Herm]

I'll be darn.

[Irish Saunders]

And yeah, she's just. And I want to just let her know that she is one year older than I am, just so.

[Herm]

Oh, she. She would do it to you?

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, I 100.

[Herm]

She would give it to you too, so.

[Irish Saunders]

And I know she's. She's. Yeah, she's working on a book for her father about her father, too. I know she's working on that right now too, which will be very good, you know, but. But during 76, I went. I went in there and I started working on the dock. And at that point in time, there was 15 employees. That's all we had. That was it. Fifteen. And I worked there for two summers. And then I dated this gal that her dad was. Had a mobile home RV lot that they. They sold mobile homes and rv. And as soon as I graduated, I went to work for them and was a sales manager there. And then one day, well, I. I broke up with this gal, right? And her. Her mom didn't care for me, so it got ugly. And so Margie and Mary told her dad said, you know, you got to look at hiring Irish to come in here and do PR stuff and advertising stuff. And so Bob called me. Would have been New year's Eve of 1980. And he called me to come down there, and him and I sat because Hoosier always. Back then, they used to shut down for two weeks right over Christmas and New Year's. And we sat there for five hours, Herm. And reminisced about old racing, you know, you know, Don Gregory and. And. And Bob Senaker and Terry Seneca and Rich Seneca and all these racers, you know, which I knew growing up. And we reminisced about that. And he came to me and he goes, well, I'd like to hire you, but he said, I'm going to pay you this money. I'm like, wait a minute, Bob. That's half of what I'm making now. I am not always looking for a deal, right? He's always looking for a deal. Yeah. So I said, hey. I said, I don't want to back up in life. And he goes, well, okay. He said, I'll tell you what I got to do. He said, I got to talk to mother, which was Joyce Newton, right? Said, I got to talk to mother and find out. So Kenny, I no longer left Hoosier, drove back to my house. I still live with my parents two miles away. And the phone rang and was Bob. And Bob's like, I talked to mother, and she said, yep, we'll go ahead and do what you want. She said, let's try it for six months and if it works out, we'll just continue. But if it doesn't work out, we'll just separate and be friends. Well, it's definitely just kept going, you know. It just kept going.

[Herm]

I'm thinking that, you know, sometimes when people tell me stories, I put my self in that place. I'm thinking that Bob Newton, the owner of Hoosier Tires, when you and him talk for five hours, you obviously had something in common. Or else you don't sit there and talk for five hours. What was the age difference between you and Bob?

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, let's see. I want to say it was 30 years. 30 years. Bobby. Kenny.

[Herm]

What is. What is it? Was it an emotional talk? Why did the owner of Hoosier tires, Bob Newton, why did he like you so much?

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, it was. I don't know. I mean, him and I just clicked, you know, he was. To be honest with you, he was like. Him and Joyce were like second parents to me. Right.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Growing up. I mean, he was always there for you. He. He had passion for racing. I had passion for racing because of racing motocross. I never raced cars before in my life, but I raced motocross. And so I had that. That drive and that urge to go one step further and, and try to win and. And that's what he had, you know, he was. He was a racer's racer, you know, and he always said kid. He always called me kid. Sometimes I wonder if he knew my name because he always called me so he'd say kid. Just always remember, you always got to be humble. He says I always made my living sleeping on creepers and eating bologna sandwiches, you know, and I never forgot that.

[Herm]

I. I know your area very well because I, you know, obviously, besides my brother, Rusty Wallace, racing in asa, I raced in asa. I spent part of my childhood up in the. Right up there, you know, Indiana, all the ASA races. And one thing I've always noticed about the people, you know, I'd say in the Michigan area, more so. And you're right there by Michigan, is they're Dutch. Dutch people like Bob Senaker, Mike Eddy. These people are very quiet. I always knew. Bob is a very. I call him staunch. Staunch to means mean. Means we're not playing around, although we'll drink some beer at night. Was there any people that you knew were Dutch that were very, you know, serious all the time? What was Bob like? Was he Dutch or not?

[Irish Saunders]

Gosh, you know, I. I don't know, but he was. He was Pretty serious. He. Once in a while, he'd crack a joke here and there, but he was very serious. And I got to tell this story real quick before I forget it. Your buddy and our buddy Schrader, right?

[Herm]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

So we're at Nazareth, Pennsylvania, in 1982.

[Herm]

Schrader would say.

[Irish Saunders]

19. Oh, we were back then.

[Herm]

Right.

[Irish Saunders]

And. And we were at Nazareth, Pennsylvania. It was a final Silver Crown race of the year. And I don't know if you ever heard this story before, but it was a final race of the year. Ron Schuman was leading the points. Right. And we're there with Bob and Schrader's run second in Blackie Fortune's car, the Rose Brother trucking car. Right. The 39 car.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And in hot laps, he blows up. Well, Benny Laba, who was a Hoosier distributor, him and Bob, they worked at Bendix together. That's where they first started. Ben Laba and Bob Newton.

[Herm]

Was that brakes Ben breaks.

[Irish Saunders]

Yes. Yep. It sure was. Here in South. In South Bend. Yep. Right. They worked at Bendix, and Benny was a distributor. He also owned the cars that Sheldon Kinzer drove, the sprint cars and Silver Crown car.

[Herm]

Big names.

[Irish Saunders]

Big names. Yep. And I remember Schrader coming down there, blew a motor in hot laps. And he comes down to Benny and he says, Benny, he says, we blew up. He said, I got a shot at winning this championship. I can beat Schumann, and I need a car. We don't have another motor. So Benny, he says, hey, you got to talk to the big guy. So he has to go down and talk to Sheldon. So I heard. I never saw this part of it, but I heard this many a times. He's. He puts his. You know, Sheldon had humongous hands. I mean, big hands, right? And he said. He puts his hand on Schrader shoulder. He goes, schrader, I'll let you drive my car. But they're under one situation or one. One. One deal here. He said, what's that? He says, your firstborn son, you name him after me, I'll be doing.

[Herm]

And Schrader told me, but I never knew the moment. Yeah, Sheldon Schrader.

[Irish Saunders]

Sheldon Schrader. Yeah. Yeah, Sheldon Schrader. And he goes out and he wins. He wins the race, Right? Or maybe he ran second. He was good enough that he won the point. So he. We got the. We got the points championship. So we go back. Well, the night before was, as we've all said, it was pretty ugly the night before. So we weren't, you know, but we Were going to celebrate the next night, Right. We've all had those nights before, right?

[Herm]

Oh, yeah. Y.

[Irish Saunders]

And we go back and we're down in the bar celebrating having a drink. And Schrader looks and goes, where's Bob at? I said, well, Bob's up in room 213, right. Whatever. It was.

[Herm]

Bob Newton.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep. He's up in the room because Bob. I never saw Bob drink ever. Bob was not a drinker at all. Him and Joyce, never. So he says, well, let me call him. So he calls him up, he says, bob, we just won the silver crown championship for Hoosier. You need to come down here to the bar. We need to have a drink. That was the only time in my life that I always said, Bob came down and he had a 7. 7. When it was all said and done, he said, well, I'm going back to the room. Here's $100 bill. Next round's on me.

[Herm]

Wow.

[Irish Saunders]

That was the only time.

[Herm]

That's a badass move by Bob to get up out of bed.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

When you don't. When you don't want to drink.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

And we've all been there before. You're like, oh, man, I just feel like laying down, you know. Stay right there for a minute. Irish, I said at the start of this, when I was introducing you, everybody knows Irish Kenny Schrader. Obviously, everybody knows that we are lifetime friends. We do. Herman Schrader, you know, comes out every Wednesday morning on the Dirty Mo media platform. But one thing I known about Kenny Schrader that I'd like you to respond to is it's like when Schrader started in that open wheel world, it's like everybody knows him everywhere. He can go anywhere. And I mean, with any form of. I mean, we're talking AJ Floyd. What is it about Kenny Schrader and that open wheel world? I mean, everybody knows Schrader. Is that one reason why stories like that. That's incredible.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, here's the thing, Herm. And you're no different than he is because of the fact that your characters. And you look at it now. I mean, no, seriously. I mean, you know, you look back at the. Kevin Olson's. Right.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And you know, Naked Nick. Right. Gomrick.

[Herm]

Nick Montgomery. Yep.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. Yep. So, I mean, Nick Gomrich and Kevin Olson and Kenny Schrader, you're. They're characters. They were characters. Everybody loved to be around them, you know, and one thing. And we'll get into some of the Tony Stewart stories and Jeff Gordon stories here, but one Thing I always remember about Schrader, he never ever forgot where he came from.

[Herm]

Boy, no kidding. I mean, right now, to this day, hey, Kevin Olson. You know, when I first met Kevin Olsen, he was a little bit older. Then I went to the Chili bowl and, and I started learning a little bit Kevin Olson. He might have been a character, but boy, I read a stories of him and Jeff Gordon going over to Australia or New Zealand, wherever it was. But Kevin Olson was a badass open wheel midget racer. I mean, he could win, couldn't he?

[Irish Saunders]

He, he was, he was unbelievable and, and without a doubt, some of the most fun that I have.

[Herm]

You listen, I, I know everybody knew Kevin as fun, really eccentric, really different. But boy, when I really studied, I didn't know anything about him. But I met Katie at Terre Haute and Schrader looked at me and said, hero's daughter. And when Schrader. Schrader knows that I don't know a lot about the early days of open wheel. So Kenny Schrader always gives me a shortcut and he looks at me right now and he goes, hero. Hero means this guy is dying. Done it. Hey, this is Dalenhart Jr. And for the latest Herman Schrader gear, you need to go to shop.dirtymomedia.com We've got plenty of options for everybody and we're adding new stuff all the time, so go to shop.dirtymomedia.com if you love your phone.

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[Irish Saunders]

Daredevil is born again on Disney plus. Why did you stop being a vigilante? The line was crossed. Sometimes peace needs to be broken and chaos must reign. On March 4th, the nine episode event begins. I was raised to believe in grace, but I was also raised to believe in retribution. Marvel Television's Daredevil born again. Don't miss the two episode premiere March 4th, only on Disney Plus.

[Herm]

Okay, listen, we. We gotta celebrate you.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah.

[Herm]

Okay, let me. Let's start like this. And we'll get back to some stories about Scott Bloomquist, Tony Stewart, things like that. But let's stay at Hoosier. So we've established now that the Newton family fell in love with you. They hire you, you're there for 40 years. And I want to go right to a story that I think might take a little bit of time. And that's the reason we don't. You know, we like to keep this at an hour. Irish and me and you, we could have three part. Five parts.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

I want to go right to the tire war with nascar. And I know we're skipping a lot, but we've established where you're from, how you got to Hoosier. We've done a good job.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

Tell me about this time. Do you remember when Bob came out of his office? How did it happen? From your recollection, how do you remember? Who's your tire going? Okay, we're going to make some tires, and we're going to do the NASCAR cup series. Tell me about the Goodyear Hoosier tire war.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, yeah, that was 1988 and 89. Bias plies. Right. And Bob entered it in 88. Right. And our first win. And I'll never forget, this was Rockingham with Neil Bonnet. Right. Be.

[Herm]

Darn. I didn't know it was Neil. I was going to say Jeff Bodine.

[Irish Saunders]

But yeah, no Neil Bonnet, because Jeff Bodine comes later. It comes in 94 when we return back. But 88 and 89, we'll go through it. And NASCAR was to the point where they had to. They said, bob, if you're going to be involved in this, you got to bring enough tires for every single one of the teams. Because if there would ever be a problem. Well, you know, we got to be able to. For one manufacturer, we got to be able to step in and. And supply the whole field.

[Herm]

Wow.

[Irish Saunders]

So we go through 88, and we're learning things and we're getting better. And I. Right. Back then, I was helping with the Busch grand national deal, which I was having to race at that. What was it? Was it the Cox car that you drove? Was that what it was?

[Herm]

I drove the Cox Treat Lumber. My first year was 1989. 90. 91, but yeah, right in that. Okay.

[Irish Saunders]

And Herm, I used to like. Man, I got to be Wallace. What in the heck? And Robert Presley and. I mean, we're just. Just. Let's. Come on, Joe. Bessie, can you just dump. Can you just dump Wallace, if you get a chance, just get to the bumper.

[Herm]

Joe Messi in the black 7 car, I think. I don't remember. But. But go ahead.

[Irish Saunders]

So, so, yeah, so back then we were doing that and. And I'm going to go Fast forward to 89 Daytona because you'll love this one. So that was when Goodyear first came out with radials, right?

[Herm]

Oh, yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And they introduced their radials in 1989 at Daytona. Well, they had some problems. And I remember Bill Elliott crashed on the back stretch and broke his leg. And Goodyear said, I think we're going to withdraw from the Daytona 500.

[Herm]

Holy moly.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. So we're, we're at the hotel room and it was Bob Newton, Terry Newton, his son, Dennis Sherman, who was a big part of who's retire. Dennis was like, he was, he was awesome. He was just absolutely awesome. And I'll never forget, we were at the hotel and the phone rang and it was Bill France. And Bill's like, bob, he says, goodyear's telling me that they're going to pull out, and I just want to make sure that you've got enough tires that you can supply all the cars for Daytona. And Bob's like, yep, sure bet. We can do it. No problem. No problem. He hung up the phone and Terry and all of us were looking at each other like, wait a minute. How are we going to make this happen? And I'm going to tell you what, Herm. We had tires every day, building them, shipping them down to Daytona every single day, back and forth in 89. And that's when our buddy Schrader on the pole for the Daytona 500 in 1989. And that was the one and only race at dwarf1daytona, was on Hoosier tires.

[Herm]

Okay, this is unbelievable. I, you know, they, we don't have selective memory, but you are reminding us all. What year was that again?

[Irish Saunders]

1989.

[Herm]

1989 with the Daytona 500. The complete field was on Hoosier tires.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, all except for Dave Marcus.

[Herm]

Oh, yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Dave Marcus still wore his Goodyear hat and had his Goodyear tires on, but he was lapsed down. But if I'm not mistaken, I think Earnhardt senior, he might have started on good years, but the first pit stop he came and he put Hoosiers on.

[Herm]

This is unbelievable. I forgot all about this.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

So, okay, so now, you know, I understand this. You know, if you're going to get into the sport, you know, you would think that, you know, when one tire maker is the only choice and another one comes in, okay, we agree with all the rules. So These were tire wars. I guess you had to somehow try to be better than, than, than Goodyear. So now we're gonna. Now listen, I am not putting words in your mouth. I'm talking and you're gonna correct me. These were called the tire wars. Now why would I get rid of my good years and go to a Hoosier or vice versa? Why would you get rid, you know, so what do we do? Just make it a little bit softer rubber. And then we were in a tire war.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, you had, you had to. Back then, you have to get so close on the edge. Right. And you have to make softer tires. You have to be able to qualify. The whole thing was getting qualified. Right. But you still had to make them things so you could qualify. Herm. But you still was able to say, like, hey, 10 laps into this run, we're out of tires. You can't do that. So it was a, a real tough balancing act that you had because you had to make them fast but had to make them live too. But in 89, Goodyear had come out with the radials, and the radials were superior to what we were with bias flight. And we didn't have radial capacity back in 1989. Yeah. So going forward, we, you know, we worked on it. We got our radio so we could have radio building stuff. So we come back in 94. Right. So we, we pulled out in 1989, we come back in 94. Right. We're going to go back into it. And, and Kenny, that was with Jeff Bodine. It was sacks. We had Greg Sachs, the both Burtons, Ward and Jeff. And, and we tested. Bob had his own, at that point in time, he had his own twin engine plane that he had here in Plymouth, Indiana. And I'll never forget, this is our routine for the whole. Up until the Brickyard and I'll get to the Brickyard. But we would leave on. Well, we'd be in the office all day. Monday, Tuesday morning, 5am Wheels up. We'd fly to where we were going to test with, with, with Jeff, with Bodine. Right. We test there, get done with the test, get back in the plane, fly back to Plymouth, be in the office on Wednesday. And then back then I was overseeing the Bush grand national stuff. So I'd have to go on Thursday. Then Bob would come in on Friday for the cup stuff. And we do that routine after just one after another. But we tested every single week. We tested someplace at a track.

[Herm]

So as I'm listening to you, you know, if you and I are sitting At a bar right now, I would look at you, and I'd say, irish, were you guys making any money doing this, or was this a dream of Bob Newton's?

[Irish Saunders]

This was a dream of Bob Newton's dream. This. This is a dream. And I. And. And so we'll go to the brickyard, right? 94, first brickyard. Right?

[Herm]

Got.

[Irish Saunders]

So we tested Herm. I think we tested four times, maybe five times at the brickyard because Bob wanted to be good at this inaugural race in his home state, right?

[Herm]

Yeah. Close to home.

[Irish Saunders]

And do you know who sat on the pole at that race?

[Herm]

Was what year?

[Irish Saunders]

1994. The first brickyard.

[Herm]

Oh, that Rick Mast. Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Yes. And he was on who's your tires?

[Herm]

I'll be darn.

[Irish Saunders]

Yes.

[Herm]

Wow. Two great reminders already.

[Irish Saunders]

So. So we were good in the race. And just so happens that Brett and Jeff, I think they had some family issues going on.

[Herm]

Oh, my God. That was unbelievable.

[Irish Saunders]

And Brett got into Jeff and spun, and I'm like, you got to be kidding me. We could have won it. And of course, Gordon wins the race. Right? So after that, I'm sitting to myself thinking, you know, this is a lot of work. And I told Joyce. I said, joyce, I said, bob's wife. I said, joyce. I said, I think I want to just focus back on short track stuff Because I was getting guys like Jan Leedy and some of these nascar modified guys, because I was still doing that, the modified plus. I was doing the six finish, and I couldn't go back then. It was a bush. But I still couldn't focus all my time on the short track stuff. And they'd give me the call and say, iris, you forgot all about us. You did this. So I said, joyce, I think I want to back out of this bush grand national deal, maybe find somebody to do it. She hollered over across the hall, bob, get in here. And she says, iris just said, he's going to not want to do this bush grand national deal. She says, I think you and I need to have a talk, Bob. And right after that, he withdrew from nascar.

[Herm]

Wow.

[Irish Saunders]

Because it wasn't a money maker at all.

[Herm]

This is so heartfelt because I go back in my childhood. I can feel myself right now at Anderson, Indiana. I can feel myself up there at Grand Rapids. And, you know, I know that area people, engineers are innovative. I'm thinking of Bob senaker and Ed Howe. You guys are innovators of racing in that area, and you guys lived a dream. But in the end, you said this story, you know, Your local racers are calling you back. Irish, please come back to our local short track racing. This was. Was it. Was this a dream fulfilled?

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. I mean, for Bob? I believe so. You know, Bob was not very good at politics. He always. He. Him and I were different on this thing. Bob always said, kenny, I don't ever want to owe you, and I don't want you to ever owe me. Well, you and I are the opposite, Herm. I want you to always owe me, and I want to always own you. Right. I want to always owe you. Right? So. But, yeah, it was a dream. And I'm telling you, Bob, he said, you know what? Joyce and I own Hoosier, but it's all the employees that make this thing work. It's from down to the people that load the trucks, that unload the trucks, that build the tires, that the employees is what really made it, and they had the passion for it.

[Herm]

You know, obviously, I studied you. I got my notes right here. And on. On one of my areas, I said, what was your relationship with Bob Newton? And now. Now I don't have to ask the question. He really. He really put a lot of trust in you. He was lucky. Listen, I'm not speaking for you, but I'm just saying I know Mary Purvis. I know the whole deal. You know, Mike Allgar, who's your tire Midwest. He. You were the right man for the job. He. Bob was lucky. He was lucky that you went by in that school bus and looked at that building. How much do you miss Bob?

[Irish Saunders]

Every day. Every day. It's like missing your father, Kenny, is what it is, you know, Every day. And there's certain things I'll never forget. He taught you a lot of things in life. Like, I'd be driving him, and we'd be going to a race. I'm like, hey, Bob, I got to pull in here. I got to get gas, right? Wait a minute, kid. Go to that next station. It's one penny cheaper.

[Herm]

He would tell you that. That was a dad.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. And, you know, he always told me when I first started, he said, just remember one thing, kid. He says, always spend my money like it's your own. Because when you give that hat or that jacket away, that Hoosier jacket away to somebody, I might reimburse. Not reimburse you for that. And you might have to pay that out of your own pocket. And that was the whole thing. Going through Hoosier, I always had that mentality that I'm going to spend money like it's my own.

[Herm]

Wow. That's so heartfelt at T Mobile.

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[Amica Insurance Representative]

Every day our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart.

[Irish Saunders]

Heart.

[Amica Insurance Representative]

But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Herm]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Irish Saunders]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Herm]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

[Amica Insurance Representative]

At ama, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Am Empathy is our best policy.

[Herm]

We're moving right on along here. So now you get back to the short tracks.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep.

[Herm]

Okay. Okay. Well, that was. That was great stories and I really want to thank you. Those are two highlights. That's. That's pretty incredible. Pretty much the whole field at the day. What year was that again? I'm gonna Write it down.

[Irish Saunders]

1989.

[Herm]

Yes.

[Irish Saunders]

That's when, hey, DW did the Iki shuffle. Remember that? Yeah. When you look at it, there's Hoosier tires on her. He's got the Hoosier decal. Oh, gosh.

[Herm]

Yeah. DW Charlie Marlowe, my buddy and YouTube manager. Charlie, talk about that. That's a good one right there. What year? I bet that some. Some board game, you know, trivia. That is incredible.

[Irish Saunders]

I just.

[Herm]

I just thought of something.

[Irish Saunders]

I got one more story I got to tell about. About cup stuff, right?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

You remember our buddy Brad Knoffsinger, right?

[Herm]

Oh, yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Okay, so, Nafi, I'm down there. Bob sent me down there to go see all the. All the Bush grand national teams one time. And off he was doing the petty drive, right? He says, come on over here to Charlotte. He says, I'm going to give you a ride in that car. I'm like, all right, I'll do that thing. So I get in there and he goes, okay, now cinch up. Get. I mean, pull down Hard, you know, Said, all right. So we go out there and we make a lap, and Kenny, you can probably. I hope you can relate to this. We're going around there, and we're probably running. Those things were like 170 or 180 mile an hour.

[Herm]

We're running fast enough.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, fast enough. And I'm riding in the passenger seat, and as we go into the corner, I feel that I hear this car is just bang, bang, bang, bang. Just pounding, you know? And I'm like, we got done. I get her. I said, brad, is all these tracks this rough? He goes, oh, no, this is Charlotte. This is one of the smoother tracks of them.

[Herm]

Oh.

[Irish Saunders]

I'm like, wait a minute. I said, you're lifting. Because the car's getting so upset. He goes, yeah. So as I get in there, and I got thinking to myself, kenny, if I can make that tire so it goes over the bumps a lot better, you'll just stay in the throttle, right? So I instantly. We didn't have cell phones back then. I instantly. I called back, I talked to the engineer, the head engineer, John, back then. I said, hey, is there any way you can change this construction? I told him a couple of things to do, and I said, we can try it to get it to go over these bumps and smooth it out. Yeah, yeah, we'll try it. We'll try it. So we went down, did a test, and it was with Nemachek, and Jeff Bodine was there. DW was there. And I'll never forget dw. He. He always wanted to feel good, right? I mean, he had to have that comfort level for him, right?

[Herm]

Yeah, yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

So we put these new tires on Bodine. He's good. Nemacheck's like, oh, yeah, badass, you know. Awesome, awesome. Nemechek's favorite word was awesome, by the way.

[Herm]

Awesome, awesome, awesome. So you know what mine is? It's a four letter word. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

There's a couple of them. So anyhow, put these tires on dw. And he goes out there, and he comes in, he goes, well, that's a good set of tires right there. He says, that's just like sitting back in your old recliner and you're. And just watching tv. He says, I'm drinking a cold one. I'm like, I guess it be good. And then those tires are the one that Jeff Bo ended up winning the Winston that year.

[Herm]

And. And, you know, 1984, I'm a cup crew chief for Joe Rupp and Levi Garrett Carr, and the Tires evolved. You know, there was a time they didn't even know what stagger was. But, you know, when engineering started coming in, they would rate the tires, you know, rate them like a spring, you know, put, you know, air pressure, you know, so you were ahead of your time, Irish. That was a very smart move on you. Where did you know? How did you know to do that?

[Irish Saunders]

I. I don't know. I mean, I just. I don't know. You know, racing motocross when I was a kid, I felt a lot of different things, you know, I mean, and I knew as a racer, there's. You got to have that. You know, if you feel. If you don't feel that you can hold that thing wide open, you're not gonna. You don't want to get hurt. So what do we got to do on our part? The tires, the spring, Right. What do we got to do to get that thing to absorb the energy so that you can keep the throttle down and drive through them bumps? Right?

[Herm]

Yeah. I'll never forget, brother Rusty teaching me so much. And he would say, herman, believe your ass. So in other words, you know, I'm not Jeff Gordon. Jeff Gordon was a gift from God. He could handle his car the way he could. But in other words, you know, I'm just saying, you're right. Because when I would think, you know, everyone, all race car drivers, there's a time where you, you know, there's that little gremlin in the back, you kind of doubt your talent. You're like, okay, maybe I'm not pushing the limit. And me and Kyle Busch talk about that. He says on his data with, you know, the teams he's been with, how drives. Kyle Busch drives on the other edge of the spectrum, where he's almost going to spin out. But that's just what he does. He doesn't know he does it right well. Well, what Rusty meant was, you know, my talent. What. What God gave me is like, when I think I'm going to wreck, I am. I will rather.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

So you're saying when you were riding in that race car, you're like, this is not good.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, No, I just knew. I mean, that wasn't. That wasn't a good feeling. I knew that. You know, I just knew that. So. So it was really. It was good that I understood. And, God, I mean, it just. I mean, I got to go back and tell a quick Jeff Gordon story back in. Gosh, I'm trying to think. He was 13 years old then. We were at East Bay Raceway, and this Kid comes walking up and he's got this hoosier hat on and it's down over his ears. The hat's way bigger than the kid's head, right? And he says, Mr. Saunders, which I, he's calling me Mr. Saunders, should be Iris. Mr. Saunders shakes my hand, he goes, my name is Jeff Gordon and I'm hoping that I'm going to be one of the best race car drivers ever. And I'll never forget that. And then of course, I met John Bickford right after that. You know, John introduced himself to me. Meeting Jeff, you know, so it was like great, great times. I remember, this is what I remember one time about Jeff is that Rich Vogler, when he got killed at Salem. I was there that night. Rich and I were very, very close. And Kenny, out of all my life, that was probably the closest that I wanted to retire because I'm like, I can't be close to my friends and this happens, right? So I called Joyce and Bob and they said, don't, don't come home tonight. Because, you know, Salem to Plymouth, it was probably a four hour drive. Don't come home.

[Herm]

Dark back roads.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep, yep. Don't come home. So just so happens there was this young kid by the name of Jeff Gordon that drove me. He had his learner's permit, drove me to their house, John and Carol's house in Pittsboro. And I stayed there that night. And I mean, but it's, you know, it's just, it's just part of life.

[Herm]

You know, what is it? You've seen a lot. So I think you're one of the best to ask. You've seen a lot. You've seen more than me, I mean, because, you know, I'm an asphalt guy and now I run dirt. But you've, you've seen open wheel, you've seen all types road course. What is it about like a Tim Richmond, a Rich Vogler. These guys were out of control, but in control. Yeah, Dave, you know, when I think of Vogler, I think of Tim Richmond and my brother Mike Wallace. It's like, oh, they're going to wreck, but they don't. And they drive every lap. Like that was Rich like that.

[Irish Saunders]

Absolutely. Rich Vogler would tell you, Kenny, I drive every lap to win, whether it be practice, qualifying, heat, race or the feature. And Vogler was this, you know, he had his pilot's license, right? And he was down there in Brownsburg and he never ever would say anything bad about the tires if we had, because there were some races we had Bad tires at. For. On dirt. But he would. The next day, he would get on that plane, fly to Plymouth, Indiana, come over here to the plant in Plymouth and talk to the engineers about what we got to do to get better. But, yeah, he was. He was 100%. Every lap he ran.

[Herm]

Oh, my God. This. This is such a heartfelt conversation. I'm going to try so hard right now. I want to. I want to find this quote by Joe Rogan. I'll look for it as we continue to speak. We'll come back to it. Okay? So every time I try to move forward in this conversation, I know we go, you wow me. You wow me. I mean, you truly do. Yeah. But you know what? You're making it easy on me, Irish, because you're telling your story, and I think it gives everybody a good look inside your life. What I liked about what you just said was that Rich Vogler was not a hater. He was a. He was a fixer. Great. Here. No, that's not it either. But. But my point is, is that leaders fix things. Here. Here it is, right here. Haters are all failures. It's 100 across the board. No one who is truly brilliant at anything is a hater by Joe Rogan. So, in other words, there are people in life that they just moan and complain. And what you're telling me about the great Rich Voger is he didn't. He said, we got to fix this, right? That is the difference between, you know, the flock that follows the leader. The. The leader fixes things. The flock, they just, you know, they take the easy way out. And I say that. I'm gonna say it one more time. Haters are all failures. It's 100 across the board. No one who is truly billing at anything is a hater. So. So Rich Vogler never hated anything. He's always trying to figure out how to fix it.

[Irish Saunders]

Right?

[Herm]

Yeah. That's good stuff.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

I really like that.

[Irish Saunders]

He was good. And. And I can tell you another quick story. Our buddy, Bentley Warren, right?

[Herm]

Oh, you know, I got him on my list to call. I got his phone number.

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, you gotta. Yeah. I think you definitely need to call him. He would be, as. He would say, this would be a wicked good time, Right? Wicked good. So you remember. Do you remember Doug Hebron, right?

[Herm]

Oh, yeah. 100.

[Irish Saunders]

So I'm at Sandusky Speedway. I'm trying to get into super modifieds on the asphalt. Goodyear had it, all, right. And I'm trying to get in there. So obviously, you know, Hebron And I are down at the bar having a few beers and I said, man, I said, I just got to get somebody running these tires. Doug, he goes, bring those four over. He said, we'll put them on Freddie graves car. He said, I'll run tomorrow. He ran him at sandusky and he won. And I'd had him on Bentley before, but Bentley was on a goodyear deal and he on purpose would go out there and blister tires. He'd go fast, but he'd blister them. So all of a sudden, because Dougie and Bentley were teammates with Tom hebron when Tom had the cars, right?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And anyhow, he got Bentley to do it. And I'll never forget this. We went up there and I did a test with Bentley at oswego. And everybody's on. On good years. And back then you could run a 1720 was good. On good years. We were going 1680s, right. And man, we're all high fiving each other, Herm. We're like, oh, we're gonna win.

[Herm]

We're gonna win everything, right?

[Irish Saunders]

And I'll never forget this. And I hope nobody forgets this to this day. Bentley. Warren looked at me and I think you can relate to it, Herm. He says, remember one thing. The faster you go, the harder it is to pass.

[Herm]

You know, this reminds me of something Kenny Schrader taught me when I started race. Now. Now you're making me connect the dots. Because, you know, Kenny Schrader's taught me a lot about dirt racing. And now that you're telling me this, all the open wheel guys, they always had to save their tires. Those big champ cars.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep.

[Herm]

Schrader would say to me, you can put on any tire you want. Put a soft one on. He goes, I can make them last. Because I guess those open wheel guys knew they knew how to ruin a tire, didn't they?

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, big time.

[Herm]

But then they knew they knew how to save a tire. What is that, Irish? Is that an open wheel thing?

[Irish Saunders]

I think it is. Because you remember Bob Fry that used to run sprint cars, win the little 500 with Glenn Nibel?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

I'll never forget when Glenn Nibel called me and said, hey, Fry is going to retire. He said, we got to find somebody that can be in this. In this race. I said, hey, let's call Bentley Warren. He's good at the Oswego Classic 200 lap race. He knows how to conserve stuff. He'll be great. And I'll never forget that that Nibel and him got there and he should have won the first year there, but I think he hit. Bounced off the. Off the wall and had a flat tire. Had to come in. He made. And don't quote me on this, but I think it was like seven or eight laps under the green made up after he came in and put tires on. Bentley was amazing. Bentley was badass to the bone. 100%.

[Herm]

Okay. Irish. Sometimes I get in trouble. You know, when I did Mark Richards that, you know, as part owner at Rocket Chassis, I went on like an hour and a half and everybody's like, you should have went longer. Then I got this group over here. It's too long, but we're at 45 minutes. So we're going to. We're not going to fast forward, but we like these to be an hour because they just do good in an hour and we'll come back another day. But we still got 15 minutes, so.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

All right, let's. Let's skip forward now. Your, your, your back short track racing. Your stories are incredible. Not just are you designing tires, making tires. You're going all over America and you're meeting all these drivers. You're the face of Hoosier Tire. We lose Bob Newton. We've done talked about Bob. Continental tires buys Hoosier tires. Tell me about this moment. Where were you? When did you go? Oh, my. Okay, so tell me about this time.

[Irish Saunders]

So Bob had had a relationship with Continental in general back in the. Because, I mean, they built the street tires, right? The Hoosier performance street tires back in the.

[Herm]

I never knew.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep. Yep. With all those tires that were built by Continental or General back then back in the day, actually Kelly Springfield, which is Goodyear was building them when we were cup Racing in 94. So Goodyear was building who's your street tires back then. But yeah. Oh, yeah, there's. Oh, Hermes.

[Herm]

And that's the rest of the story. Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

So.

[Irish Saunders]

So Bob had a relationship with. With Continental and Dennis Sherman, John Dessall. They put this together with Joyce that Continental would come in and I believe it was eight years ago and purchase Hoosier. Right. And I'll never forget Nico Seltzer, who is the CEO of Continental over in Germany. He came there and spoke in front of us and he says, we know nothing about race tires. We are a street tire company. We're buying this company because you are the largest race tire company in the world and you know how to do it and we're not going to change anything. Well, that lasted for a little while.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And you know, it's all about the people that made Hoosier. Right. I mean, all the people that are there. Engineers, our distributors. Our distributors were a key and still are to this day. Or. Well, when I left, they were still. But I don't know today. But they were key in making and building the relationships with all the racetracks, all the racers, and making the product shine. They were a big part of it.

[Herm]

I. I can't believe that I have not been following you on Facebook. And when I went on your Facebook before this conversation, I scrolled your Facebook and you love Ryan Priest and you love. You love Justin Allgaier.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

So you. You've made relationships. And when I see how much you love Justin Allgire. I'm assuming that's because his dad is Mike Allgire.

[Irish Saunders]

Yes.

[Herm]

Who is the largest Hoosier tire distributor. He's in Springfield, Illinois. It's Hoosier Tire Midwest. So you. I can understand, you know, things being different when somebody else comes in. How big. How big is Gator? How big is Mike Allgaier in your life?

[Irish Saunders]

Gator is a huge part of my life. I go back to this story with Terry Young. So back in the day. So I go back to this story, and I can't remember the year Herm. What it was, but all of Iowa was on McCreary tires back then, right?

[Herm]

Oh, I remember.

[Irish Saunders]

And I said, I said, gatorade. I said, why don't we take your bus? It was motorhome. I said, you and I will just go and we'll visit every one of these racetracks.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

He says, yeah, let's give it a whirl. And we did it. We switched everybody over to Hoosiers just by making that road trip. And I'll never forget. I still have it to this day. Terry Young took a hundred dollar bill and what he did is he blew it up. And he wrote on there, I will never doubt thee again, Terry Young. And he signed it to you. To me. Yeah. So I still have that to this day. To this day.

[Herm]

Badass.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep.

[T-Mobile Representative]

At T Mobile, we'll give you four free 5G phones and four lines for only 25 per line per month with eligible trade ins. And no, it's not a contest. It's every day for a limited time. Everyone's a winner on America's largest 5G network.

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[Amica Insurance Representative]

Every day our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more. More human.

[Herm]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Irish Saunders]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Herm]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

[Amica Insurance Representative]

At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica empathy is our best policy.

[Herm]

I gotta go back to Bob Newton for a minute, because when we interview people and we put them in a position. Bob Newton saw something in you because you made moves that even Terry Young had to admit. Yep. I'll never doubt you again.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

Big Bob knew that about you at a. At a child age. I think that. I think that's awesome. I think that says a lot about great innovators. Recognize people for the job. And you were the man for the job for 40 years.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. 43 to be exact.

[Herm]

Yeah. Richard Petty.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. Oh, man, I never thought about that.

[Herm]

Well, that's the way us goofy racers are.

[Irish Saunders]

Don't you.

[Herm]

Don't you sit down at a restaurant that's kind of just a normal. It's got a number on it. Oh, look, I'm at an Earnhardt, table three, you know.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, yeah, I mean, hey, here's a crazy thing. So. So, Herm, you know my son got paralyzed racing motocross, right? He raced for Tony.

[Herm]

I got him on my list.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep. So. So Eric. Eric got paralyzed in. In night. In would have been the fall of 2010. Just day before his 18th birthday, he got paralyzed. And what's really crazy is his number was 349, but his pro number was 449. And he gets 449 of Medicare. That's what he gets a month now. Wow. Isn't that crazy how that number 49. It's really crazy. But. But, you know, again, I've been so blessed. I'm so fortunate to have friends like yourself and Tony and Travis Pastrana and Kevin Harvick and Dale and all these people just built a relationship. But I've always said, you're only as good as the people you surround yourself with. Right? And I've always tried to do that. And surround. I mean, you might call me, say, hey, Irish, I got to have that, Herm. I don't have the answer for that, but by God, I know the person I can get it for and I would do that. You know, I want to take a.

[Herm]

Little time and tell you that I'm sorry about your boy Eric being paralyzed, but you're the man for the job. You're a wonderful father and I've seen everything you've done and you've given him the best life possible. After. After that accident. How is everything going with Eric right now?

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, they're doing great. As a matter of fact, now that I have some free time, I really don't. I'm busy now. But they both Eric and Garrett, my youngest son, which. My youngest son, he never wanted to race motocross at all. At all. Herm. But we go here to Plymouth and after, after we had purchased the track at Plymouth, we put him in a front wheel drive the first night out and he wins. And I'm like, where'd this come from? You know?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And so he's winning. So now we're going to. This year we're going to run wing sprint cars on dirt.

[Herm]

Oh, my.

[Irish Saunders]

Garrett's going to run the little 500 for Brad and Tara Armstrong. And we're working a program with GM performance to try that 525 in that. In that car. Try to get the cost down on engines right. For everyone. And then we're bringing back Thursday Night Thunder at IRP with the focus that.

[Herm]

Made Jeff Gordon Thursday Night Thunder.

[Irish Saunders]

So. And they're going to do All Star races. They're going to get Tony to come back in. I think Pastrana wants to. I'm going to talk to Ricky Carmichael about running a midget, but Eric is going to run a midget with hand controls. And you know who's going to be his crew chief? Mike Fedorchek.

[Herm]

Oh, my gosh.

[Irish Saunders]

He's the one that designed the hand controls for Eric's race cars. Mike Fedorchek. Yeah.

[Herm]

So he made the munchkin that run races. The rumble.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah. Yep. Raceway park back in the day. That was him. Mike Fedorchek.

[Herm]

Wow. Well, that's awesome. That makes me happy. Okay, well, I was feeling sorry for you a little bit. And you're the man for the job. You've taken your children and you're. You, you win the Superman dad award. That makes me very happy. Congratulations.

[Irish Saunders]

I've got a great family. My oldest daughter, Nicole, she, she went to races. She's got a couple grandkids now. We've got. Now my wife.

[Herm]

How many kids you have? How Many kids?

[Irish Saunders]

Well, I got three. I got. Nicole's the oldest, then Eric, he was the chosen one, which you asked Nicole. She'll tell you that. And then I have Garrett, which is my youngest. He's 28. And then I have two grandchildren. Isla, which was born on my. My birthday also. She's. She's going to be two this year. And Weston, he's going to be four. So just so you know, I got west in a quarter inch, too, by the way.

[Herm]

My God, you're going to be a race car driver.

[Irish Saunders]

Whether you like it or not, you're going to do it, you know.

[Herm]

Okay. I want to get to a part that made you extremely worldwide famous. And then I want to talk about the drivers like a Scott Bloomquist. But, okay, so you're. You're with Hoosier Tire, you're at a racetrack like you always are, and the tire might have some issues, and you're doing what you do. You're Irish Saunders. Your. Your quality control. You're trying to take care, you know, like Rich Vogler. What do we got to do to fix this?

[Irish Saunders]

Right?

[Herm]

And you come up against a man last year that assaults you, gets physical with you, knocks you down. This makes worldwide news. And not long later, you said, look, I've had enough. Tell me about this man assaulting you over the Hoosier tires.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, it was in October, and I'd went to irp. I hadn't been to a Silver Crown race. And Kenny, I've been traveling all over the country this year trying to fix problems, whether it be with the cars, tour with asa, with the modifieds, with whatever it might be. So I'm traveling all over. Right?

[Herm]

Right.

[Irish Saunders]

So I go. I go to irp, and of course, I start walking through the pits, and they all start complaining about, oh, the product, you know, on dirt and the product on asphalt. My tires shrink and they grow right to your face.

[Herm]

Right to your face.

[Irish Saunders]

Oh, yeah, they're all right. To my face. They're all complaining, right? As I walk down pit road, I make. I make my rounds. I just go from one all there, and they're all complaining. Something I've heard all year long, right? So the races are over. A couple guys come to me and say, I would have won this race, but my right rear shrunk a quarter of an inch. And I finally, the one guy said, if you fell the quarter of an inch, you should not be doing this. You should be Formula one racing. Because if you got that kind of a feel and you can't handle it, you know, and so I leave the pits, I drive out of the pits and I said, ah, I need to talk to Seymour's about midget tires. So I drive around and you know how the tunnel is going underneath the tunnel there in turn four.

[Herm]

You walk?

[Irish Saunders]

Yep, I walk through the tunnel. I get to the top of the tunnel and here's this guy, big guy, probably six four, six five, probably 260 pounds, got a beard, wearing a Brady bacon T shirt. He looks at me and he says, hey, you're pretty brave wearing that Hoosier shirt in this pit. Do you know that? I'm like, hey. I said, I'm working on some stuff, you know. And he goes into the, oh, the price. These tires are this. And they're just garbage and all this other stuff. And he points to me and he says, and you, my friend, are single handedly ruining racing. I'm like, wait a minute, I'm not ruining racing. He goes, well, maybe it's not you, but it's your effing company. And he shoves me on the ground and takes off underneath the tunnel. And people went to try to find him, they never could find him. Don't know who he was. And at that point in time, I called my wife, I said, this is it. And she goes, you know, it's probably time. She goes, 36 years of being together, she says, and this all we hear all night long is complaints. It might be time I called Tony. Tony's like, we need you, but you don't need that Harvick the same way, you know. So I reached out to a lot of my friends to ask him. And I just got to the point where I went to the president and told him, and he just said, well, I'm sorry. And I said, well, okay, I'm done. And that's. I'm done from Hoosier, not from racing.

[Herm]

Yeah. And so when the, the owner said, okay, that's basically what's sad is Hoosier tires is gone, the family's gone. So there was nobody to go, man, Hoosier or, you know, Irish, you've. You've been here for us forever. You know, this makes me think about what is going on with society more so today. That was not back. You know, when I grew up in racing, we were all into fix issues. It was, you know, it was like everybody was together, you know, to fix issues.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep.

[Herm]

So this onslaught of hate, you know, it goes with every tire maker. I mean, I ran usmts where you're running the American racer You know, we've heard about McCrary. We've. Hoosier, Goodyear, and I know, you know, this Irish, but it's with everybody and everything, everybody hates everything. What. What is going on? What do you think?

[Irish Saunders]

Well, I, I. You know what I think, Kenny, is. I think the cost of racing is getting so expensive anymore. Right. And. And here's the thing. I look at, Herm. You were very lucky in your career that you made a living off racing, right?

[Herm]

Yeah, I did.

[Irish Saunders]

You made a living, right? Yeah. But think about it, Kenny. Most people that race, they do this as a hobby. This is a hobby. And hobbies got to be two things. They got to be fun, and they got to be affordable. And if one of those things go away, they're going to park their stuff and they're going to go find another hobby to do.

[Herm]

Good point, Iris. So you're. You're saying that the local racer is taking the money out of his fan. Their. Their family's mouth, and so instead of buying dinner, they're buying a tire.

[Irish Saunders]

Yep.

[Herm]

And if that tire has an issue, this tire is my whole. My whole life. It's the tire's fault. Wow. Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Hey, I've never heard a driver say that I screwed up. Have you ever heard very few drivers say, hey, you know what? It was just on me tonight. Right. It's usually, oh, the setup was wrong, or the shock wasn't right, or the tire wasn't right, or I didn't have enough stagger or whatever. You know, I mean, there's. There's only one guy that's happy at the end of the night, and that's the guy sitting in victory Lane.

[Herm]

Right. You bring up a good point. And over the last three years, I've tried when I do these coffee with Kenny's, I admit, you know, hey, I drove bad last night. I told Nick Hoffman that the first night at Volusia. I said, man, Nick, I said, if you want to load up, I said, I. I'm driving horrible. And he looked at me, Herm, all we got to do is put on a new nose. You're fine. Let's go. We recovered. But. But you're right. I think it's immaturity, even with old men that pushed you down.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

You know, I'll get on social media, and I'll see people MF Tony Stewart. I will see people MF Kevin Harvick, Jimmy Johnson. You could win it all, and they still hate you. Yeah, that's where we are.

[Irish Saunders]

I believe so. You know, everybody hates a Winner. Right.

[Herm]

Well, I'm sorry that happened to you, Irish.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, I appreciate it, but that's, that's all part of life, you know? I mean, again, I wanted to make sure through my career that if you came to me and you said, man, Irish, I just. These tires aren't doing this particular thing. And. Okay. That I take a mental note that Kenny Wallace told me that. Now if Kenny Schrader comes and tells me the same thing and Tony Stewart tells me the same thing, then. Now I better start looking at. Okay, engineering. Here's what we got to do. We got to make these so they'll do this. I got to make them. They got to turn better. They got to have more drive. What do you got it? We're trying to fix that problem. I always wanted to try to fix a problem for everybody, you know? Yeah.

[Herm]

Yeah, I like that. Okay, well, so now you are. Well, I'll never forget this phrase. Felix Sabatis told me this. The word content. Content means you're satisfied. So I, I, I take it you're, you're not satisfied. You're still digging. And as you try to retire, I'm sure everybody knows what you're good at. So. Okay, now you're gone from Hoosier Continental Tire. Now what are we doing?

[Irish Saunders]

Well, I'm out here at the golf course doing some, doing some promotion stuff. Right. Trying to make an awareness for this, for this place. And this is a crazy story, and I know you, you have a very good relationship with Sunoco, but there was a gentleman. You remember the old Torco race Fuel back in the day?

[Herm]

I do.

[Irish Saunders]

Okay, so a guy by the name of Chuck Newton. Yeah, Sunoco. I see it. So Chuck Newton, no relation to Bob Newton from Lafayette, Indiana. When Torco had their. He had his problem back then. This gentleman by the name of Chuck Newton bought all the equipment from Torco and he hired the blender. Okay. And this is in 2008, and we ran it in the motocross bike. And, you know, he's no relation to Bob. Right. But here's the crazy thing about it. Chuck Newton's wife, her name was Joyce, just like Bob Newton's wife.

[Herm]

This is meant to be whatever you're going to tell me.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, so. So he's like, hey, Irish, I don't know anybody in the industry. Would you, Would you try to help me put party A and party B together? And, and I can do that. So. So I'm helping Chuck do that a little bit now. Right. With that. And I'm also helping GM Performance with this crate motor deal. Because I firmly believe we got to get the cost of racing down some. Right.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

To make it this. This hobby affordable and fun again, you know?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

I'm doing those things right now, plus racing with the boys. So I'm involved in a lot of stuff still. I'm not. I'm not going to sit still, you know. Not going to sit still.

[Herm]

I love it. Okay. We're. We're going to. We're going to end like this. I want to know a story about Scott Bloomquist. Was Scott big with hoosier tires?

[Irish Saunders]

He was huge. He was absolutely huge. But you got to go one step further. Where I first, you know, when I first met Scott. Through Randy. Randy Sweet.

[Herm]

2. 2. I'm going to say this, and I'm going to let you go. Two of the most crazy people and two of the most brilliant people in our lifetime.

[Irish Saunders]

100% 2.

[Herm]

Einstein's kind of like an Elon Musk. Like, Elon is weird. People badmouth him. But the most brilliant mind of all time. So. Yes. Okay, tell me about Bloomquist and Randy Sweet.

[Irish Saunders]

Well, Randy Sweet, I don't know if you knew this or not. Did you know that Randy worked for Bob Newton?

[Herm]

No idea. Wow.

[Irish Saunders]

Okay, so you remember the triple disc clutch? Who's your triple disc clutch?

[Herm]

Well, absolutely. I ran quartermaster stuff my whole life, but I still do.

[Irish Saunders]

Guess who started that. Randy Sweet. Randy Sweet. When I was working on the dock. Right. During those summers, Randy Sweet was working for Bob. He was still racing. Had the number 17 car. Right. And he would go to races. And I mean, he was. He was a genius. Randy Sweet was so far ahead of his time. It was unbelievable. Unbelievable. And I'll never forget what he told me. He says, air's free. You got to use it. To this day, I keep thinking about air is free. You got to use it. Right. But Randy was. He was such a innovator on. He was way ahead of himself, Herm. On a lot of things. I mean, the triple disc clutch brought it over from. From over in England and got the triple disc. The Hoosier triple disc clutch started and was selling hard parts back then, besides selling recaps. And he was. He was great. And. And then he started Sweet manufacturing. Right. And he, he always told me, he goes, I learned from Joyce Newton, make sure everybody pays their bill.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

I mean, he was. He. But he was great. And he helped a lot with a lot of. He did a lot of things. And Scott. Scott was. I. I didn't really have too much Dealings with Scott, that was more Shannon Rush. He did a lot of stuff with Scott because Shannon overseen all the dirt, late model stuff. Right.

[Herm]

I. I know Shannon. I'd like to give a shout out to Shannon. Hi, Shannon. So is it true? I don't want to back, you know, you against the wall, but was it true that Scott Bloomquist got free Hoosier tires his whole life?

[Irish Saunders]

Well, he was a. He was one of our. I mean, here, listen. When you're racing somebody, there was people that you had on tire deals, right? And to make sure that he was an influencer, that he was going to go out and win and promote the product. And, yeah, there's. There's a lot of guys that got free product to help us do that. That was instead of running an ad in someplace, right. You would use tires instead, you know, to make. You make these influencers get on your product. I mean, it's no different. It's no different than. Because of my background with Moto. I was overseeing the Moto stuff. So I was real close to getting Carmichael to start promoting and running Hoosiers.

[Herm]

You know, and they're smart. They're smart. They can help you, too.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, absolutely. It's. It's. It's helping each other, you know, I mean, that's how it worked. But, yeah, Scott. Scott was on a tire program with Hoosier 100%. He was. And there was, back in the day, Buck Simmons, Larry Moore, Charlie Schwarz. I mean, I'll just go on and on and on. There was tire programs out there, you know.

[Herm]

Yeah, but. But you. You do make me happy. And I'm smiling because Randy Sweets, boy, and myself, in our early days, I mean, I'm. We're talking like children. I'd go to these ASA races, and, man, Randy Sweet was brilliant, but. But wild. And, you know, I want to thank you for bringing up Randy Sweet's name in. In. I mean, he was the innovator. I can remember all of us going to Winchester, Indiana, and we could hardly turn the car, so we'd run negative caster in the left front, positive in the right front. And when you go in the corner, if. If you were to just let go of the steering wheel a little bit, that thing would turn to the left all by itself. So, Randy. And I'm not telling you anything you. You don't know. I'm telling this for our viewers. Randy created the power steering for all short track, all racing. All short track racing. He made it compatible. He put, you know, the rack and pinion on power Steering. He was brilliant. You're right.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember, Herm, I got to ask you. Do you remember a racer by the name of Denny Nyari?

[Herm]

Oh, My God, yes. 100%.

[Irish Saunders]

Okay. So as I was growing up through my childhood, Denny was my hero. All right.

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

I'll tell you one more quick story here of Bob Newton. Bob calls me up in the office. This is in the early 80s. He says, Kid, he says, how are we going to get this asphalt program off the ground? I said, bob, we got to get Denny Nyri to start doing testing. He says, how can we get a hold of him? I said, dial 289-8661. That was his number.

[Herm]

Oh, my God. You still remembered.

[Irish Saunders]

I still remember. Yeah. I still remember his number. Right. So I knew that Denny was. Everybody respected Denny. He was always a straight shooter. And Denny started doing the testing. And to this day, I will give Denny Nyri credit for Hoosier as what they're at today in the asphalt world. It was Denny. Denny was very honest. If he. He come in, he'd say, those four tires, throw them in the dumpster. There's no good when we tire test, Right?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

And, I mean, I remember our compounder once said that compound should work. Can we sneak him in somewhere else? And we'd sneak him in like, four. Four sets later, he'd go out there and run three laps. He'd come in, he says, I thought I told you to take that set and throw it in the dumpster.

[Herm]

He picked a good ass.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah, he had a good ass. He could feel that stuff, you know, feel it. But Denny was phenomenal. He was great. And. And to this day, I give Denny Nyrie a lot of credit for where Hoosier's at for asphalt.

[Herm]

And as we talk about history, I know basically one of your local tracks there is South Bend. Have they tore it down yet? Is South?

[Irish Saunders]

Not yet, I think. As a matter of fact, I talked to the guy that owns it yesterday, and I think they have it sold, but it will not be a racetrack anymore. It'll be. It'll be gone.

[Herm]

Well, as Schrader would say, not time to be sad. Obviously, they don't want it there, so let's move on.

[Irish Saunders]

And. And, you know, Kenny, the thing I always say with racetracks now is I use this thing. There's not enough inventory to fill the shelves, and the inventory is fans and race cars, and the shelves are race tracks. And that's. That's. That's my saying now that I tell.

[Herm]

People, you Know, Bob Sargent would say to me, kenny Wallace, we have too many racetracks. And, you know, he. I'd say, bob, but when you stop, I mean, right here in St. Louis, we can. I live okay from where I live. And I'm just. I'm just going on what you just said. I like what you said because I've heard this through Bob Sargent. And when I think about Bob, I'm like, you know, he could be right. Because right where I live. Fifteen minutes down the road is Federated I55 Speedway. Thirty minutes over here is Tri City Speedway, Granite City, Illinois. One hour here is Highland. Hour and a half is Brownstown. Now they're getting ready to tear down Belclaire, like, March 10th. And they got like $20 million of COVID money. Now right across the river, they're getting ready to build this beautiful dirt track. So I don't know how we're gonna do it, but we're gonna have, like. And you got Quincy. We're gonna have dirt tracks out the ass.

[Irish Saunders]

Yeah.

[Herm]

And I don't. I don't know how they're all going to get along, but it's.

[Irish Saunders]

It's, It's.

[Herm]

It's going to be something to watch. And hopefully they will be able to do it because we did in the day, but in the day we had so many more race cars.

[Irish Saunders]

Yes. Right. Right.

[Herm]

Yeah. Well, as I always end. There he is. Ladies and gentlemen, Irish Saunders. The stories are unbelievable. It took me to an hour and 10 minutes because you were so awesome, Irish. I want to thank you so much.

[Irish Saunders]

Now, Herm, it's an honor to be on your show. Thank you and your family for what you've done for motorsports. It's been great. And what you're doing for motorsports today, I still want you to always do me a favor and always be a character, please. Okay?

[Herm]

Yeah.

[Irish Saunders]

Because can you. Can you top Cletus McFarlane, though? Can you top Garrett Mitchell?

[Herm]

By the way, I did get a hold of Garrett Mitchell, aka Cletus McFarlane, and he said, let's do it. So we're going to do a Kenny conversation with him, and I will be in one of those Crown Victoria races. And if any of you have made it this far, which, you know, when we do this, people, you know, they listen to 20 minutes, they shut it off, they turn it on again. If you've made it this far, everybody, I just made an announcement. Yes, Cletus McFarlane is coming on Kenny conversation. And yes, I will be in a Crown Victoria race. Okay, everybody, listen up. Remember, this is a reminder. This is just not on YouTube, but we are in podcast form. We are on Dirty Mo Media platform. Kenny Conversation is over on podcast at Dale Junior's Dirty Mo media platform. So remember, if you want to put it in your ears while you're mowing the grass, go right on over there to Dale Jr's Dirty Mo Media. We are. If you want to look at Iris's pretty face, you. You stay right here on YouTube. So, Iris, thank you so much.

[Irish Saunders]

Thank you, Kenny. It's been an honor and I really appreciate it very much.

[Herm]

All right, until the next Kenny Conversation. Goodbye, everybody. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, Tick Tock, and Instagram.

[Amica Insurance Representative]

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[Herm]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Irish Saunders]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Herm]

Don't worry. We'll get you taken care of.

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[Irish Saunders]

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