← Herm & Schrader
Herm & Schrader
Jamie Little: Rewriting The Rules Of Racing Television
01:03:46
Originally airing 2/21/24, this Kenny Conversation with Jamie Little covers every corner of motorsports
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- [00:00]
Kenny Wallace
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- [01:10]
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- [01:59]
Kenny Wallace
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- [02:01]
Commercial Announcer
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- [02:02]
Jamie Little
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Commercial Announcer
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- [02:05]
Jamie Little
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Kenny Wallace
So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?
- [02:12]
Jamie Little
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- [02:21]
Kenny Wallace
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Jamie Little
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- [02:28]
Kenny Wallace
Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jags, the leader in high performance aftermarket car Parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything you need to fix your vehicle up. I have worked with this lovely lady. She is the first lady of motorsports tv. I've done my notes. The great Jamie. Little Jamie. How are you?
- [03:03]
Jamie Little
Hi, Kenny. I'm doing great, you know, down here in Daytona, getting ready to kick everything off today. But it's a perfect way to kick it off, being on your show. This is awesome.
- [03:12]
Kenny Wallace
Well, thank you so much. And it is Valentine's Day. Yes. It's always fun to timestamp. Yes. Are those. Is that from your husband?
- [03:22]
Jamie Little
Yes. My husband sent flowers when I checked into the hotel room yesterday. They were waiting for me. So. Nice little touch.
- [03:29]
Kenny Wallace
There is so much to say about you. Obviously, we just touched on it. As you said, he made a nice touch for you. Get your day started. Great on Valentine's Day. Boy, I tell you what, you got it going on. You're married, you got a boy, a girl. But I want to kind of get right to it with you, you know, I. I'm a. I'm a girl, dad. I'm married with three daughters. And I admire you because you're a sportster, you're a wife, a mother, you work. You're hardcore, in my opinion. I've been around you a lot. So that's my disclaimer for everybody watching. I know Jamie. I'd worked with her. Let's start like this, okay? Let's start like this. Jamie Little from South Lake Tahoe, California, married son and daughter, first lady of motorsports tv. That's what we nicknamed you, okay? Because you, you have done it all. Been in American motorsports for what I can count now. Feel free to correct me. Been in American Motorsports for 27 years on major network TV. Worked for ESPN, ABC. Then you went on to work for Fox in 2015. And that's where you're at right now. And now a drum roll stuff that, that only you have done. The first lady on air for the Indianapolis 500. First lady to be a pit reporter for the Indy 500 and Daytona 500. First lady to do play by play for major American motorsports race. It was the 2021 ARCA Menards race. You were. You were the lead. You were the lead. You were the head honcho. And then I, I put in something right here. Pit reporter for the cup series. And you just report on every damn thing FOX TV ask you to do. Now feel free to add, but as you listen to everything I just said, and I do this with all of our great athletes, when I say all that about you? What goes through your mind?
- [05:54]
Jamie Little
Well, first and foremost, that I've been around a long time, Kenny.
- [05:57]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. But like Bill Young.
- [06:00]
Jamie Little
Well, thank you. Another thought is that, you know, I'm humbled, you know, to hear anytime you can be the first at something is pretty awesome. And it's not something I set out to do. It's just the way that my life has taken me and my love and passion has driven all of that. You know, it makes me smile when you go through those moments that I've had in my career, the first or, you know, covering a different sport, because I've always loved what I do so much, and I think that's why I've been able to stay around for so long, because it's genuine, and people connect with that. They like watching somebody who loves doing what they do and understands it. And the fact that I still get to push those limits and still such a huge part of motorsports is pretty awesome. This is my 25th year covering motorsports on television, but, yes, I've been around for an extra couple of years. Like you said, Kenny, when I was in college, you know, I was. I was going to all the racetracks for supercross and motocross and interviewing whoever I could, writing for websites, whatever I could to get ingrained in the sport and learn the athletes and share their stories with whoever would listen. And. And it seems like, you know, in my mind, it seems like all the steps that I took happened quickly. You know, I was, you know, 2000, I started covering the X Games, and I signed on with espn. And then suddenly, you know, I went from live announcing supercross to doing the TV for it. And then I jumped into IndyCar 4 wheels. All of a sudden, in 2004, and then 2007, I jumped up to NASCAR. So there's been. I mean, all these steps were the perfect timing for me. You know, it's. You don't just jump from. From 0 to 100 in motorsports and expect it to last. So, you know, in my mind, it felt like it happened quickly. It was like I was covering supercross, doing everything I loved, and then, boom, I got a new opportunity. What. What do you think about IndyCar? I'm like, well, it's racing mentality. I don't know much about it, but I'll figure it out. And I was covering my first race, my first ever pit stop two months later. So things like that are kind of special and fun to look back on.
- [08:07]
Kenny Wallace
I would say that you and I and everybody in motorsports were wired a little differently and part of Kenny conversation is it's fun. You know, it's not an interview. We call it a conversation because, you know, when you guys. When you have guys like Tony Stewart, John Forson, we call audibles, we go everywhere. Yes, I want to kind of do that at the start right here. I have followed you on all social media. I watch you, you're everywhere. You do it all. And we're going to get to that. I have all that in my notes, and I asked John force this. And it just seems appropriate with you and I. And I don't mean to. This is not a belittle to any other lady, but it seems like you have something that others don't. And I don't know if it came from your mother, your father. And here's what I mean by this. You're a sportster, you're a gamer. I see your workout. You are intense as all get out. So before your journey even started, you had to have that in you. Where did that come from?
- [09:14]
Jamie Little
Yeah, that's interesting, Kenny. And. And I think first and foremost is that I never looked at a job that was something a woman couldn't do. And I think that comes from my mom. I was an only child, raised by a single mom. I grew up in Lake Tahoe. So Lake Tahoe, you're outdoors, it's tough. You grow up being tough there, you know, things I did, I rode horses. I worked out of stables to earn money so I could have my own horse and. And get things and toys that
- [09:44]
Stephen Dubner
it
- [09:44]
Jamie Little
was asking the boys down the street if I could ride their quads and their dirt bikes. Like, that's what you did for fun.
- [09:50]
Kenny Wallace
I knew it. I knew it.
- [09:53]
Jamie Little
The smell of gas. Like I was addicted from the time I was six. I actually remember the first time I ever rode a motorcycle. I was five years old. My dad was a drummer. It's when my parents were still married. My dad was a drummer and he kind of was big time. He signed with RCA Recording and. And my mom was a showgirl, so they both were in entertainment. Yes. But I remember my dad, that he worked late, came home with his buddies, and he had a dirt bike and I asked him to take me for a ride on it. So I sat in front. We went off these trails up in Tahoe, and I literally. Kenny can remember the feeling that I had. The freedom and the smell. Everything that was about riding that motorcycle, I remember. And it never left me. And it was something that it's hard to understand because I didn't have brothers around My dad wasn't around from the time I was seven on up. He didn't raise me. And my mom was a girly girl, you know, she was kind of into sports, but she didn't understand why at 12 years old, I came home one day and all my horse posters were down, and all my McGrath and Supercross posters were up. It was like, who the. Who the hell is this girl that I have? So it's something that was just in me when I was young. Kenny. And to go back to your question, you know, my mom just. She taught me that if you're asked to do something, you say yes, and you figure it out later. It's not a matter of, oh, well, no woman's done this before, or that's all, guys, how am I going to fit in? I just never had that mentality. And I've also had a mentality of outworking the next person. I'm not afraid of working hard, doing what it takes to jump in. I mean, can you imagine? I was 29 years old, I came into the cup garage. Hey, Jamie Little here. Going to cover the Cup Series, and I had to learn everybody. I mean, and you can't be afraid to work. You can't be afraid to go up and introduce yourself and make friends and learn these people and make those relationships. So I think that's something that's really powered me through all these years and has been part of my staying power.
- [11:50]
Kenny Wallace
You talk about growing up with horses and motorcycles, both scary things. To me, horses are huge. You know, I'm scared of horses because they bucked me and my mom off, and I don't want nothing to do
- [12:03]
Jamie Little
with horses but just horsepower, right?
- [12:06]
Kenny Wallace
Oh, see, that's. That's why. That's why you're so good at what you do. So are you. Are you a tomboy?
- [12:13]
Jamie Little
I am. I. I think that, you know, as I've gotten older now and got married and I have kids, I. I think that their more feminine side comes out. But I still, at the core, am a tomboy. You know, I do everything fast. I push people over to get to the front. Like, that's. I don't do it mean. And you should see me driving. I piss a lot of people off. Wait.
- [12:37]
Kenny Wallace
I love you.
- [12:38]
Jamie Little
You know, every. Every curve is like, how can I get through this faster or better? Like, I just. There's. There's part of me that I'm like, I'm a boy. I think like a guy in some ways, that I'm like, who am I? And it's Very funny, Kenny, because my. My husband Cody, he runs bakeries. Nothing. Bunk cakes. We have three of them. That's his baby. But he is in charge of all women, and here I am working with all men for the most part. So it's kind of funny. We always have a lot to laugh about and talk about.
- [13:08]
Kenny Wallace
You make me laugh right now because you said, who am I? And there was a time I was. I was in my bathroom, and I was in front of the mirror and I was practicing something, and it was just me.
- [13:21]
Jamie Little
And.
- [13:21]
Kenny Wallace
Oh, my God, I was so embarrassed. My wife came by. She came by and she caught me practicing it, and I went, oh, no.
- [13:30]
Commercial Announcer
I.
- [13:30]
Kenny Wallace
And I looked at Kim and I said, sometimes I don't know who I am. And she said, I know. And she just kept on digging. Man, we do some things to get through what we have to do. And it just seems to me that you. You don't mean to, but you have separated yourself from the rest. And I did not write this down because I knew you and I would get into a good conversation. You know, I deem you and everybody else deems you the first lady of motorsports. So you work around Shannon Spake, Caitlin Vincy. I know you all are equal. I know you all really care about each other, but do you find yourself and. And the ladies, you know, ever at all comparing anything? Do you ever say, hey, do you ever run into this? You know, racers will talk chassis setups and things like that?
- [14:28]
Jamie Little
Yeah.
- [14:29]
Kenny Wallace
What is it like for the ladies on tv?
- [14:32]
Jamie Little
Yeah, I. I think that there is that camaraderie with women, that there are things that you ask, you can talk about that you just can't talk to a guy about. You know, we can complain to each other as women, but as a dominated sport, I'm not going to go bitch and complain to the guys in the garage. You know what I mean?
- [14:50]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [14:51]
Jamie Little
So it is nice. Like, Shannon and I, we came into NASCAR together in 2007. We were on the ESPN team together. And right away, you know, we had that bond because we could talk about things that we wouldn't talk about with anybody else. We can understand each other and what. What we were going through. And it's nice to have that because there's not a lot of it in the garage. It's gotten much better. There's a lot more women than there used to be, but still, it's. It's not the same. There's a lot of guys, so it is nice. And Shannon and I now both working at Fox together, It's. We still talk all the time. We see each other all the time. And I'm so proud of her. And. And you know, the women in our sport, and Kim Kuhn is another one that does a great job on NBC. And. And there's so many women out there, Kenny, that are in the wings waiting for their chance to get into this sport and do what I do. And. And that motivates me every day. You know, I want to be here as long as they'll have me. And I just. I'm so excited to see the number of women that are out there that want to do what I do. I mean, it's fun. This is a great job. Kenny, you and I don't have jobs. This is fun. And we happen to get paid a good amount of money to do it.
- [16:00]
Kenny Wallace
So I feel comfortable talking to you like this. One more thing about the ladies in motorsports and then we're going to move on. And I got so much to ask ladies in motorsports, especially for you, where you're at, you work for the biggest network, I think in tv, you're on national tv. I mean, you're big time. You're everywhere. Well, I mean, I really feel that way. How can you get any bigger? I mean, we all have bigger goals. You're in a position right now where you're big time and this is me talking. Do you feel like there's more work to do for the ladies? Because, I mean, it seems to me like, you know, besides taking Mike Joy's job, which probably would be next, you know, he's getting of age. What work is there to do left for the ladies in tv?
- [16:54]
Jamie Little
Well, I. You mentioned it. There's that one job that we've never seen a woman in. I've been just so excited with the opportunities you mentioned. The Arkham Menard series that I started covering as play by play lead announcer in 2001. I still do that. Last year I got to do the truck series, split it basically with Adam Alexander. And that was incredible. Got to call the championship race in Phoenix. I mean, that was crazy. But, you know, to still get to do these new things and things that excite you and make you nervous, make you lose sleep. I mean, at my age and how long I've been doing this to still get those emotions. Sometimes I ask myself if I'm damn crazy. I'm like, why do I keep getting myself in these positions out of my comfort zone? Life is good as a pit reporter. Call it. Call it that. But no, it's not good enough. For me because I'm very competitive. Kenny. Yeah, and this goes back to your question earlier. You know, what drives you and what set you apart? I think just being competitive in all ways and always wanting to be the best and push those boundaries and pushing myself, that's just how I live. So, yeah, I think that there's only one spot really, that women haven't. Haven't done, and that is the lead play by play role for the cup series. I don't know if I'm going to be broadcasting long enough to ever get that opportunity. There's people before me that have been here longer, been doing the job longer. Adam Alexander, perfect example. He would be the next guy in my mind. But I'm happy where I'm at right now. Who knows what will happen with the Xfinity series. We know that that's moving to the CW next year. So who are they going to pick? Maybe they'll pick another woman to do play by play. That would be great. But Kenny, I'm also a believer of the right person for the job. I'm not a believer in put this person here because we need this face, we need this gender or we need, you know, we need a female here. I, I believe wholeheartedly in the person that deserves it, who has worked so hard to get to this point, who gets the next opportunity. That is something I believe in. I don't want to be given a role just because I'm a female and I fit the bill. I want to be there because, hell, this chick's been in the sport for 25 years. Let's give her a chance. And, and I kind of feel like that's what happened when I took over the play by play role.
- [19:12]
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- [20:00]
Kenny Wallace
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. You know, I don't feel like I was roughing you up, but we have to ask these questions.
- [20:06]
Jamie Little
You know, the tough stuff, Kenny, I'm here for it.
- [20:08]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. And, you know, like I said, I'm a dad. I have three daughters. I got grandbabies coming up. And, you know, it's always been about, you know, the ladies have not got the chances that the guys have got. I. I've watched some ladies come along. Right now I got my eye on this Jade Avedisian, who's a great open wheel midget racer. Toyota's, you know, really supporting her and, you know, we've had her on Kenny conversation, so. So thank you for that.
- [20:35]
Jamie Little
Now, Kenny, to your point, that's a really good example right there of females coming up. Yes. It's the ones that put in the hard work. The ones that are making statements and getting the job done in a great way. And you talk about female race car drivers. Well, we can all only get to a point until somebody else has to help us. They have to give us the yes. They have to write the check. If you're a race car driver, Toyota backing these women that they believe in can be the next, you know, big thing, the next truck series driver, ARCA driver, whatever it is. But for somebody like me, I could be great at my job. But unless my producer says, hey, we're going to give you a shot in the booth, I never get that shot. Danica Patrick is not Danica Patrick. Without Bobby Rahal saying, we're going to put you in an Indy car and you're going to run at this top level. It's just the way it is. You need somebody to give you the yes and somebody who believes in you.
- [21:26]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, same with me. You know, there, there's. First of all, this is not about me, but we can talk and compare like, like everybody else does. I definitely didn't deserve 905 NASCAR starts. However I had to. I had to go get my own sponsors, stay in the game. And that leads me to this. Okay? We know the executives that run our sport, and sometimes, you know, you and I, we have to push that button and tell our producers what we want to do, what we want to see. You know, they need help. Our directors, producers, you know, our bosses, they need our help. They don't run the show. They might tell you yes or no. But so leads me to this point. You went to Jacob Bowman and you said, hey, I want to do more. Jacob Bowman is what I would call the boss of talent. That's. That's what this old redneck calls him. Yeah, the boss of Fox Sports talent. He's the one that hired, you know, Joe Buck and. And, you know, Troy Aikman and you and I. Yeah. So when. When you want things, we have to go get these things. We don't sit back and weigh them because we have to install that idea in their brain.
- [22:45]
Jamie Little
Yes.
- [22:46]
Kenny Wallace
You went to Jacob and you said, damn it, I want to do more.
- [22:50]
Jamie Little
That's right.
- [22:51]
Kenny Wallace
Tell me about that phone call.
- [22:53]
Jamie Little
Well, it was interesting, Kenny, because, you know, I've been a pit reporter forever, so have I thought about doing play by play? Sure, the ideas crossed my mind over the years, but I'm like, that's a guy's job. Like, that's just. You need to have that male voice, that powerful voice up there. That's just not something that I could see myself doing. Plus, I love being in the middle of the action, you know, and being up in the booth, you're away from the action, you're seeing overall event, and you're calling it just so much different than as a pit reporter. So, you know, when one day it was during the off season, in gosh, it was the end of 2020. Lee Diffie, who to me is one of the best play byplay guys of all time.
- [23:34]
Kenny Wallace
I mean, that Australian accent, right?
- [23:36]
Jamie Little
Yes. Track and field. He does cross. I can listen to his voice all day. Yeah, but, you know, we're. We've been friends, but not somebody that we pick up the phone and call. Well, he calls me out of the blue one day and I'm like, hey, Lee. He's like, jamie, you know, you're. I'm not even going to try to.
- [23:54]
Kenny Wallace
Go ahead.
- [23:57]
Jamie Little
He's like, jamie, you're gonna think I'm crazy, but listen, they're putting women in play by play roles in football and NBA. It's time they do it in nascar and you need to be the one to do it. And I'm like, well, I'll be damned. That's interesting. He said, yeah, I. I think you're the one to do it, so you should probably look into it if that's something that you want to pursue. I hung up the phone. Kenny called. My husband went home. I'm like, he's damn right. Why not? Let's just give it a chance. I mean, maybe it won't go anywhere. I emailed Jacob Bowman right then, and I said, hey, Jacob, if there's ever an opening, a practice qualifying, if there's any. Any time there's an opening for play by play, I'd like to give it a try. So he said, let's get on a phone call and I want to know more about it. So we chatted. He called me a week later and he said, would you want to do play by play for the Arke Menards Series? And I was like, the Arke Menard Series? I've never covered that series.
- [24:49]
Kenny Wallace
I don't know their names yet.
- [24:51]
Jamie Little
I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. So that's. That's how it was hatched. And. And Kenny, this goes back to. And I don't want to keep going on and on, but go ahead. Something I learned from your brother, Rusty.
- [25:03]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [25:03]
Jamie Little
I worked with him at ESPN for many years in ABC. So it's 2006. If, if you remember, they put. They put rusty on the IndyCar series broadcast with us to get ready to go cup Racing in 2007 when ESPN was coming back with the NASCAR contract. So he worked with us in IndyCar. Your brother had to figure out IndyCar and all these names and just this whole new world, Right? So we're at like, our season wrap party, and. And he's like, so, Jamie, so you're coming with us to NASCAR next year, right? And I was like, no, I don't. I don't know, Rusty. I said, everybody and their mother is calling our boss and telling them they want to be in there, they want to be part of nascar. I just don't want to be another one of those people. And he goes, jamie, let me tell you something. And I'm trying to be your brother right now.
- [25:49]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, do it.
- [25:51]
Jamie Little
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you want to do it, you need to let them know that you want to do it.
- [25:56]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [25:57]
Jamie Little
And that never left me, Kenny. I. I went out, I did the X Games, I think was coming up right after that event. I finished up the X Games, walked straight up to my boss's office at the stadium, and I said, hey, guys, you know, I just want you to know you probably already have your team filled for nascar, but I just want you to know that if I'm being considered that I really want to do it. I want to do NAS card before I'm 30. And I just. I. I didn't say it before. They said, okay, thanks for letting us know. And they called me two months later and. And they said, you're part of the super team and you already were before you told us. So I learned that from your brother. And it is so true, Kenny, that if you want something in life, if you want something in this sport or in your career, you need to let people know that that's your intention. It might not. Not always work out, but you have to let people know your intention.
- [26:45]
Kenny Wallace
I want to say that my brother Rusty, my brother Mike, they are truly the love of my lives. I've been using that phrase a lot lately, but my brother, along with the great Dick Trickle and some other people, but more so, Rusty has taught me so much. I once said to Rusty, I said, brother, you're like a rock. You're like a boulder. Nobody gets you. And I was the third child, you know, I was always wanting. I was the mediator. But Rusty taught me, you know, get them before they get you. That's why Rusty Wallace and the late, great Dale Senior number three, the man in Black, you are not going to get those guys. Even Jimmy Spencer said to me one time, he said, I was never as mentally tough as your brother Rusty and. And senior. So I want to compliment you on that, because this is something that I've never talked to anybody about. And. And just because you brought it up and you can see how serious my face is, Rusty always taught me. He said, it's sad to say, but you got to remind people because they will remember what they want to. I have people that ask me the stupidest stuff. I'm like, I've already. I've already ran like six. You know, I've already. You got to remind people every once in a while. And it's not that you're bragging on yourself.
- [28:06]
Jamie Little
Yeah.
- [28:07]
Kenny Wallace
You know, the story goes, Jacob Bowman, that Fox said Troy Aikman, where. Where your. Your super bowl ring. So when you hold the mic, you remind the people, because kids in her 20s, like, who the hell's Troy Aikman? Right?
- [28:20]
Jamie Little
Yeah.
- [28:20]
Kenny Wallace
So good point. Good point. And a great reminder. So let's call that audible when I read or watch you on social media, it seems to me that you remember where you came from. You love motocross. You are an ex games girl. And if I'm wrong, straighten me out right now. But it just seems to me that that that is your child. And tell me about when you started. And you. You already told me about horses and motorcycles you grew up with.
- [29:00]
Jamie Little
But.
- [29:00]
Kenny Wallace
But these. You know, you were a pit reporter for espn, abc. You covered the summer and winter X Games. Tell me about that time in your life.
- [29:11]
Jamie Little
It was pretty awesome, Kenny. Especially, you know, the older I get, the cooler it sounds that I was a part of X Games for, like, you're a badass. That was really. It was an amazing time in my life, and I Worked my butt off to get to that point. I graduated high school in 96 in Las Vegas. I moved to Vegas at 13. That's when I left Tahoe, and. And I didn't know what I was gonna.
- [29:36]
Kenny Wallace
When did you leave Tahoe? What age?
- [29:38]
Jamie Little
When I was 13.
- [29:40]
Kenny Wallace
How did you do that?
- [29:42]
Jamie Little
So, well, my mom and I moved to Vegas. She took a job, so we moved to Vegas. So I go from this small little town to this huge city right at that time in your life, for a girl, that's probably the worst time to move to a place like Vegas. I was just an independent child, and, and I, I, I figured life out. But at the point when I graduated, Kenny, I wasn't going to college. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I knew that I love dirt bikes, and I brought my dirt rider magazines to school because I didn't care about school. And I moved to LA all by myself. Went there, and I very quickly realized that I loved motocross. And there was something there, something attracting me. Watch the races. And I'm like, I can do that. I can be that person. I want to be that person talking to them. And in 98, when I was living in California, I went up to a guy with a microphone, an ESPN microphone at one of the races. And I was like, hey, I want to do this for a living. And he's like, you can, you can hang around, kind of like an intern if you want to go to local races and do interviews and all this stuff. So I did that for a couple of years. I'd get up early on the weekends, go do that. So in 2000, I called up Felt, now, Feld Entertainment, that runs Supercross. I called up the boss there, and I said, hey, I really want to try out for being a live announcer. And they're like, all right, well, we'll give you a chance. We know you've been around, so we'll give you a chance. But it's race by race. You know, you screw up on the first race, you're done. So no contract. So I go out there at Anaheim 1, the opening round of Supercross in 2000. Yep, yep. Still the opening round, all these years later. And I guess I did a good job, Kenny, because they kept me there for four years. And in that time, I picked up the phone and called the boss at ESPN. I think this was 2001, and. And he knew who I was. And I said, hear me out. And I basically sold myself and said, give me a chance. Let me do X Games. I won't let you down. He's like, all right, I'll give you a chance. See how it goes. And that boss, Rich Feinberg, was my boss at ESPN from 2001 until our contract was up with some with NASCAR in 2020.
- [31:48]
Kenny Wallace
Legendary name, right?
- [31:51]
Jamie Little
Exactly. In motorsports, he was. So I guess the moral of the story is find out who the boss is and call and tell them to give you a chance. That's basically what I did every step of the way.
- [32:05]
Stephen Dubner
Hey, there. It's Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio, and we have just made a new show, a TV talk show. It's called Better in Person. We have the kind of guests you don't see on every other show, and we have the kind of conversations you don't hear anywhere back.
- [32:21]
Jamie Little
I'm like, yes, Chef.
- [32:21]
Kenny Wallace
Be home with the pork.
- [32:24]
Jamie Little
You have the opportunity to make this little corner of the world into your ideal world, your dream world.
- [32:31]
Stephen Dubner
You can watch better in person on the Freakonomics YouTube channel. You'll find a new episode there every week.
- [32:37]
Commercial Announcer
This is how a conversation works with
- [32:40]
the Discover Cashback card. It's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases, activate and earn 5% cash back at different, different categories each quarter on up to fifteen hundred dollars in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants, it pays to Discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.
- [33:09]
Kenny Wallace
This leads me to when I watch some of your great, you know, Instagram videos, you're a sportster. I mean, you work out immensely. You're chiseled. I watch you golf. I watch you golf. I watch you ski. And your videos are inspiring to the ladies. It's not bragging. It's like, look, ladies, this is what I'm doing. We're grinding. We're in the airports. We got to keep our immune system strong. We can't be sick. We got to be on the air. So, you know, tell me about this workout, you know, that you do, which enables you to golf and to ski with your family. Tell me about this workout.
- [33:54]
Jamie Little
Well, I think that the main thing is just keeping your energy up. You know, it's about being healthy and. And it's good for your mindset. I think working out for anybody, no matter what level, if you're intense or you're just a walker, you're a runner. Whatever it is, there's something that happens. It's called happy endorphins that get released and gives you more energy. It makes You. Your outlook on life. Better. Things aren't as hard as they seem. And. And that's just been a part of me. And working out gives me that energy and that drive boosts your immune system, all those things. But I've been. You're talking about the sandbag workouts that I do. I've done it for years and years.
- [34:32]
Kenny Wallace
I love those.
- [34:34]
Jamie Little
You know, I'll go through periods of time where I'll post videos, and then I go in the garage and there's guys in there, they're like, buying sandbag want to know about. It's so cool because it is something you could take on the road. You know, you could go buy your sand at Home Depot or whatever, dump it in your bag and. And you got your workout. And I get daily updates, you know, on the workouts. I still. I do like Orange Theory workouts now, too. I love. Because I can do that in all the towns we go to, and it's a big part of my life, but I'd say I work out maybe three to four times a week. I'm not obsessive about it, but when I can do it and get my heart rate up and. And release those endorphins, that's what it's all about. But, you know, it's. There's just so many great benefits to it. And being on the air. Yes. You need to care about how you look and how you present yourself. That's all part of being on tv. And if. If I didn't want to do it, I shouldn't be. You know, if you don't want to do that for television, you shouldn't be on it, because it is, you know, people are looking at you. You have to be aware of what you look like and how you're coming across. And I want to be that positive person for people to say, hey, working out is important. Eating healthy is important. Having a positive outlook on life and looking at the good and not the bad is important.
- [35:44]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. First of all, I agree with you 110%. And I call that don't give up. A lot of people, Jamie, give up on their bodies. And, you know, I get made fun of all the time because I'm eating grilled chicken, salmon, a good salad with balsamic vinaigrette dressing. I quit. Coke, Pepsi, Sweet. And my friends, my. My friends that we, you know, I've always been the runt of the litter, but I, you know, it's all about my cardiovascular. You know, my. My family, they all. My dad had a heart Attack their arteries, get clogged up. So I just want to tell you that I agree with you and, and I, I'm with you and I just wanted to add a little bit more on that is that we have to take care of ourselves because we do love life. I mean, you love life, right?
- [36:34]
Jamie Little
I love life. And I, you know, energy is everything to me. I'm a high energy, energy person. No matter what I'm doing, chasing my kids around.
- [36:43]
Kenny Wallace
Yes.
- [36:43]
Jamie Little
You know, traveling all over the country, whatever. It is so important. And it's a decision that we make when we wake up. Right, Kenny? I mean, you have to have something in life that gets you excited to get out of bed in the morning. And I have a lot of things that I'm excited about. But when you feel good and you look good, I mean, it goes, it goes such a long way and, you know, if I can inspire one person, then that's awesome. That's, you know, that's part of my job and part of my responsibility as somebody in the media.
- [37:11]
Kenny Wallace
So we might go back and forth and the viewers are learning this now.
- [37:17]
Jamie Little
Yes. I want to go back to X Games too. So go ahead.
- [37:20]
Kenny Wallace
Okay. Well, yeah, you're right. I got you. But okay, let's, let's talk about this for a minute. You do, you do such good for society. And it seems like you love animals, whether it's animal rescue or. I'll be flipping through the TV channel and you are on the biggest dog show there is in America. And I see how hard you work, how much you prepare. That dog show is a big deal. Just tell me and, and I know that. Tell me and hold on, let me back up for a minute. I know friends that are psychologically not in the right frame of mind and basically doctors will prescribe them a dog.
- [38:06]
Jamie Little
Yes.
- [38:06]
Kenny Wallace
You know, to. It's better than medication because sometimes dogs just give unconditional love. So let me ask you this whole round question. Tell me about animal rescue. Tell me about your dog show that you're. I don't mean dog show. It's just a short name. Yeah, it's a big deal. Tell me about all that.
- [38:26]
Jamie Little
I'm obsessed with animals. I mean, wild and growing up in Tahoe, it's like I, I just have had such an affinity for animals. There's just something like they spoke to me when I was young and trained horses, started riding at 8 years old and, and like I said, I worked at a stable, so a rental stable, 365 days a year. People would show up and Ride through the snow. And I'd have to take them out unguided tours. And I was 9 and 10 years old, so I'd get tips at the end. I'd be super nice. I learned how to deal with people and how to manage people in that way, and that's how my mom allowed me to get this horse. And I got a young horse that had never been ridden before. It was, like, 900 bucks. And I trained that horse. And I was just in love with animals, and my mom would never let me have a dog. So what did I do? I grew up, and now I have four dogs at home. And I'd have showed her.
- [39:17]
Kenny Wallace
Didn't you?
- [39:20]
Jamie Little
Yeah.
- [39:20]
Kenny Wallace
Mom, come. Come to my house.
- [39:22]
Jamie Little
Yes.
- [39:23]
Commercial Announcer
Oh.
- [39:23]
Jamie Little
And she does. And my dogs are freaking nuts. I've just got crazy dogs that are allowed to do whatever they want. Yeah. But, yeah, Kenny, you know, it's. It's one of those things in life that things cross your mind, and you're like, dang. Like, that's. That's my calling. And back in 2016, all of a sudden, when I signed with. Or 15, I guess it was, when I signed with Fox, I had some downtime. When this first half of the season ended, I had some downtime. And so I. I found a huge animal rescue in Las Vegas, the Animal Foundation. It's one of the largest in the country. It's. It's so Sad. They get 100 dogs and cats a day, people turning in, finding whatever. Vegas is terrible with homeless animals. So I started going there. I started giving them my time, and. And I started walking dogs and learned all about this whole world of rescue and how heartbreaking it is and sad and. And how I can make a difference as well. So I really got on that bandwagon of, let's get back to the shelters. Let's raise awareness. I started something called a shelter surprise. So when we go to a town where there's nascar, I mean, I've gone all over this country. I'll find a rescue organization that needs some help, and I'll go on their. You know, their website, and you get, like, they have their needs list, and I take, like, all the dog food, the dog beds, whatever they need, and then I take pictures of some of their animals, and I post it all on social media so that people following me and watching NASCAR know that there's a great animal rescue with some awesome dogs that need to be adopted. So I've been doing that for a long time. I've got a pit bull at home. I've got a pitbull mix, a pug mix, a golden retriever, and I'm looking every day always for more dogs. So. Yes, bring it on.
- [41:03]
Kenny Wallace
Kenny, I want to commend you for doing that, because that, That's. That's the work of a Mother Teresa. You're do. You're doing the right things. You know, there's an old saying, you're going to heaven for sure. Well, you're awesome because you do all the right things. I heard something. You know, all of us sportsters, we're into sports psychology, and I hear things that people don't hear. I'm not the whisper. Okay, but. But you said. And, And I'm part of these. Every once in a while, I go on the Cal Petty Cherry ride.
- [41:40]
Jamie Little
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Kenny Wallace
And I see what goes on out of. Out on the west coast. Okay. I see it. It's. It's a entertainment tipping industry, and I tip big. I want to make that clear.
- [41:54]
Jamie Little
You.
- [41:54]
Kenny Wallace
You said, you know, you worked with the horses and the people that rode the horses and they. They tipped you afterwards. Yeah, tell me about that right there. Because it seems to me that might have made you go, oh, I do a good job and I get a big tip. Was I hearing wrong or was that. Was that part of your life, learning that if you do something good, you get a reward?
- [42:20]
Jamie Little
Yeah. And. And it also taught me hard work leads to gifts, and you can work hard and make money. And look, I can have a horse here. And I earned his, you know, his keep. That's how I had a horse. I had to work. I had to. You know, I went to school Monday through Friday, and then on the weekends, I was working at this stable and. And it was long, long hours. You're drinking water out of a hose, out of well water.
- [42:42]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [42:46]
Jamie Little
I mean, it was the best childhood I could have ever imagined. Kenny. I wish that my. My kids had that right now that they had to get out there and get uncomfortable. That's the key about life, I think, is getting uncomfortable, because all we're doing as people right now is finding more ways to be comfortable. And that's not good for your health. It's not good for your mental stability. So, Kenny, back then, being so young, I realized, like, you work hard, you make people happy, you do things for them, and you're rewarded. And if you do a bad job, you don't get anything. And you also realize some people are assholes, and some people are very caring. I learned a lot about human nature as a young girl 8 to 12 years old. In those moments of being a tour guide, my.
- [43:28]
Kenny Wallace
You just. You just took this kind of like therapy for me, too. I'm up here. I'm up here at my restaurant that I really like, Twisted Tavern. And. And the cook came out of a Super Bowl Sunday just a little bit ago, and he was moaning, and I looked at him and I smiled. I said, buddy, I love you. I said, you don't have you, Everything's good. And everybody around said, oh, he's like that all the time. And, you know, it kind of. It kind of turned him around a little bit. And I love your spitfire energy. I love your pma. I love your positive mental attitude and getting back, you know, I'm 60. I was born in 63. I'm a lot older than you, but how about you? You talked about drinking out of a water hose. A friend of mine taught me that in the summer when you're really hot, that you would. I would take the water hose and run the cold water over my wrist. And that was known back in those days to cool you down. I don't know if it's because your. Your blood flows through there, and I don't know where the hell I'm going with this. I just turned. I just turned it. I just turned it to John Force just now.
- [44:36]
Jamie Little
Kenny, it wouldn't be your show without stuff like that. I love it.
- [44:40]
Kenny Wallace
I. And I love your story. You. I think you're my sister because you're young, but I grew up like you did.
- [44:49]
Jamie Little
So you. You asked me about X Games and living in that era, and I didn't really answer it. I kind of explained how I got
- [44:57]
Kenny Wallace
there, but let's go go at it again.
- [44:59]
Jamie Little
Yes. So I would say anybody that's, you know, 30 to 70, watch the X Games at some point in your life. And the X Games is amazing. Young athletes doing incredible things that we never thought was possible. Well, I got to be part of it during the heyday, the biggest years that X Games has ever had and will ever have, because you can't do anything beyond what they've already done on a dirt bike or snowmobile, you name it. But I was there when Travis Pastrana, you know, actually, let's go back a little bit. I did the Gravity Games for NBC in 2000. Carrie Hart, who's now married to Pink, the singer. That's how I got into this whole mess. I. I didn't. I left that part out. When I was 15. Carrie and I went to school together. He raced dirt bikes. I thought he was the Coolest guy ever. I thought his friends were cool. Let me hang out, ride dirt bikes with you guys. And then after that, I just went a step further and wanted to be part of the sport. So fast forward, I'm covering Carrie at the Gravity Games on NBC, which was like a competitor to X Games. Carrie Hart goes out there and pulls the first ever backflip. Didn't ride out of it, but he came down and landed and what a moment. It was just an amazing moment. I just relived it recently for some reason. I. It came up and. And it was just like, wow, that's so cool. I got to be in the middle of that. Brian Deegan was there. Haley Deegan was there, I think in 2000 or 2001, right when she was born.
- [46:23]
Kenny Wallace
Yes, Brian, I have his name already for you.
- [46:26]
Jamie Little
Yes. And then Kenny Travis Pastrana pulled the first ever double backflip. And I reported, I had just talked to him before he got on his bike to go do it inside. It was the Staples arena back then in la. He told his mom, mom, if anything happens to me, know that I love you.
- [46:44]
Kenny Wallace
Oh, my.
- [46:44]
Jamie Little
And I reported that on the air as he went out. I mean, Kenny, I saw some things. I saw athletes die. I saw athletes get paralyzed. I saw athletes break these historic barriers that'll never be broken and do things that we still talk about today. That was just an incredible moment in my career when people come up and mention, like, X Games. It's just, just. It brings back so many great memories because how much fun was that to be part of?
- [47:10]
Kenny Wallace
And I'll, I'll add, born in 1963, like, I was, you know, sports in my mind were settled. You know, you played baseball, you played football, soccer, hockey, tennis, and that was it. And when this X Games come along, it's like, this ain't real. What's going on? I mean, what are they doing? And so you're right. You. You, Jamie, you were literally on the forefront of creating a new sport. Would you agree with what I said that you were there when they created a new style sport?
- [47:46]
Jamie Little
I was part of it. I mean, it started, you know, mid, mid-90s, but where we were really seeing the impact was 2000, 2001, 2, 3, and 4. When we started seeing just the backflip, the front flips, the three 60s on dirt bikes. And I mean, the evolution of motorsports. I think so many people just were aware suddenly of the power of motorsports and these young athletes and what they're capable of. And oh, by the way, NASCAR was at its height at that same time as well. Unfortunately, we lost dale senior in 2001. I remember that moment. I wasn't into NASCAR, and obviously in the way that I am now. I watched it, but in Supercross, like, we all just mourned that moment, but it was such a high point for motorsports. X Games and Supercross and NASCAR were all just on this high at that time.
- [48:39]
Stephen Dubner
Hey there, it's Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. And we have just made a new show, a TV talk show. It's called Better in Person. We have the kind of guests you don't see on every other show, and we have the kind of conversations you don't hear anywhere back.
- [48:55]
Jamie Little
I'm like, yes, chef.
- [48:56]
Kenny Wallace
Be one with the pork.
- [48:58]
Jamie Little
You have the opportunity to make this little corner of the world into your ideal world, your dream world.
- [49:06]
Stephen Dubner
You can watch better in person on the Freakonomics YouTube channel. You'll find a new episode there every week.
- [49:11]
Commercial Announcer
This is how a conversation works.
- [49:15]
With the Discover Cashback card. It's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Act activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to fifteen hundred dollars in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants, it pays to Discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.
- [49:44]
Kenny Wallace
In. In your opinion, you're around all these great athletes when you look at a Travis Pastrana. And now listen, I've been around Brian Deegan a lot. He's. He's got me beat for hyperactivity. And, yeah, he's a badass dude. I mean, you know, I'm around Brian, and he's blinking and he's ready. He. I met. I met my match. When I met Brian, you know, it turned out this is Haley Deegan's father. But what. What do they have that other humans don't have? A Pastrana and a Deacon. What do they have? Yeah, right. What makes them? I mean, you know, I think they're the ones that when I watch, you know, the monster Jam trucks right now or. Or I watch snowmobiling. Those X Games now have those guys doing flips, trucks, and. And snowmobiles and. So Brian Deegan and Pastrana. Just a quick blurb from you about them. What are they like?
- [50:51]
Jamie Little
Well, it's interesting because they come from two different backgrounds. First off, I met Brian Deegan. I think I was probably 18. He must have been 20, 21, maybe a little younger, but he was racing Supercross. But he Was what you called a privateer. You know, he was one of those guys kind of doing it on his own. Didn't have the big factory support. He was just out there. And I remember him being kind of like a loner, almost. Like he was just kind of his own guy, just trying to make it, trying to be somebody. And then he wins a race. I think it was at the LA Coliseum, actually, where he won his first Supercross race. And it kind of unleashed this guy. And we started seeing the evolution of Brian Deegan, that he had this side to him, hip on his shoulder. F the world, we're gonna create this brand. And he did. He took it to another level. We went to the Gravity Games, back to that time when Carrie did the backflip and Brian was there. Brian, he had created something called the Metal Militia. And it was like these guys that were part of this metal militia. Use your imagination. They were just hardcore dudes. Like, it was almost like a biker gang for dirt bikes.
- [52:02]
Kenny Wallace
Bad boys, as they say on the West Coast. Gnarly.
- [52:06]
Jamie Little
They were gnarly. They were young punks, and they were doing incredible things and making good money, and they were on a national stage. But Brian and his guys got everybody kicked out of the hotel. Like, they were just. They were raucous. They were nuts. And Brian was such a little punk to interview. Like, he just had this. Like, he just, you know, like. But. But he'd laugh all the time. And I knew who the real Brian was. So it's so funny, all the years later now in NASCAR that his daughter's racing in nascar, he's still that Brian Deegan. Obviously, he's come around. He shows his soft, sweet side, but he's just. He's a different, unique character. And he is just. He's built an empire. I mean, he's done incredible as a businessman, what he's done with his kids. He has three kids, all involved in motorsports. And then there's Travis Pastrana, that was like, the golly G straight. A freaking genius kid who was, like, doing things that, like, 12 years old that nobody should be doing on a dirt bike. Like, he was just so talented. And then he realized, like, he was good at everything. You tell him to jump off a bridge on his dirt bike, sure, I'll do that. He did anything, and immediately the world just picked him up. He was in the motocross videos doing all this crazy stuff. He was on tour around the world. And, I mean, how Travis Pastrana is still upright. I. And I don't say that lightly, like, the amount of concussions, the bones he's broken in his body. Just go ahead and go. People watching this. Go. Go Google Travis Pastrana injuries. It's insane. Insane what he's endured and he's still racing. It's crazy.
- [53:43]
Kenny Wallace
I gotta tell you, I'm so happy inside right now because I could hear your passion just now.
- [53:48]
Jamie Little
Your.
- [53:49]
Kenny Wallace
Your happy time in your life really came out just now. Thank you, Jamie. That was. That was really awesome. Yeah.
- [53:55]
Jamie Little
Such a fun time. Yeah.
- [53:57]
Kenny Wallace
You know, and. And Kenny, conversation is all about you. And this is what you're thinking, this is what you're in your mind. I want to keep bragging on you. This one blows me away about you. And this shows the sportster in you.
- [54:12]
Jamie Little
Oh, boy.
- [54:13]
Kenny Wallace
You won the 2008 Toyota car race in the pro celebrity race over Mike Skinner.
- [54:19]
Jamie Little
Yes.
- [54:20]
Kenny Wallace
You drove a car. You out running. You did it. Tell me about that time, Kenny.
- [54:27]
Jamie Little
That was the best day of my life until I got married and had children.
- [54:30]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, it's all good. We know what you mean,
- [54:35]
Jamie Little
Kenny. It was so cool. Let me back up real quick. So when I started covering IndyCar, what the first thing I did when they asked me if I would do it, I went and signed up for racing schools. I mean, I. I did any kind of racing school. I went to Skip Barber and I went to. What was it like, ESPN had this Russell racing school with open wheel cars at Sonoma Raceway. I got my racing license. I wrecked a car. Like, I loved it. Like, I thought, man, I. If I could, I would race. But I should probably stick to my day job and continue on this path of. Of announcing like I'm doing. And I loved it. So when Toyota came to me in 08 and they were like, we want to put you on this celebrity roster. To do this, I had to take a weekend off. Like, I had to go to training in the middle of the desert for, like, it's Lancaster, California for three days to drive these race cars. You're with instructors, you're with all the other celebrities. And I went balls to the wall, Kenny. Like, I was there not to just run a race and be like, look at me. I wanted to win that race. Yeah. Kevin Harvick told me I better go out there and bring back a trophy. Tony Stewart, like, these guys were telling me, like, don't. Don't make us look bad. Like, you represent this sport. Go out. And I freaking did, Kenny. I went out there, oh, my God. I got all up on the guy that was leading the race. He started mirror Driving. I drove him right into the wall. Like, I didn't touch him, but I don't care.
- [55:54]
Kenny Wallace
Drive me.
- [55:55]
Jamie Little
Yes. Yes. So he looks in the mirror, drives straight into the wall. So I take the lead. One lap to go. Skinner had to start behind all of the celebrities. So when you're a pro, you have to start behind the celebrities. I see him come, and I'm like, oh, like he's an. He's a truck series.
- [56:11]
Kenny Wallace
He's a real race car driver.
- [56:13]
Jamie Little
Yeah, exactly. So we're racing Kenny. I'm holding him up, hold him off. The last corner is a hairpin. He tries to spin me out. I stay in the gas, kept it straight, crossed the finish line, and I won that freaking race. And it was the second time ever in 32 years that a woman won the overall. And I climbed that damn fence like Elio Castro Neves.
- [56:33]
Kenny Wallace
Yes.
- [56:34]
Jamie Little
I was on that podium spraying champagne with Mike and all the interviews. And the next morning, Kenny, I woke up in the hotel room and I was like, did that really happen? Was that real? Open up my door. The front page of the Long beach newspaper with my picture on it. It's the day of the IndyCar race, by the way, and I'm on the front page, and I'm covering that IndyCar race. I'm like this. It doesn't get better than this. So from that moment on, Kenny, I understood what it was like for you and all these drivers that I worked around. That feeling of winning is unlike anything you can describe.
- [57:06]
Kenny Wallace
Yes, you're right. And it. Psychologically, whatever hurts in your body, it doesn't hurt anymore. As you say, the endorphins, the exhilaration of. You didn't need anybody, but you feel so light now. You're so happy.
- [57:20]
Jamie Little
Yes.
- [57:21]
Kenny Wallace
Whenever I've won big races, I just. I say, I'm just so happy. It's, you know, that's the best way I can explain it. But yes. And once again, that's. That's what separates you. You know, I. I asked John Force, I said, john, I said, what do you have mentally and physically that nobody else has enforced? Thought about it for a while? He looked at me, said, but what you have over everybody is you do it. You rode motorcycles, you ride horses, you've raced cars, and, oh, no, by the way, you know, you do. To tv and. And that's what pays the bills. And that's an audible right now as I'm talking. Do sometimes you ever find out that you got to do things, you know, that pay the bills, you know, Like, I did tv, but I was a race car driver, and I always reminded people of that. I mean, I know you're gonna say you love TV because that's what you're doing. And the bosses do listen to this show. Okay, let's have fun. If I was to say you could been a sportster in anything and made 11, or. Or do TV and your bosses would understand, what would your answer be?
- [58:40]
Jamie Little
I think. I think my path worked out exactly like I would. I would hope it would, Kenny.
- [58:45]
Stephen Dubner
Okay.
- [58:46]
Jamie Little
I raced downhill, mountain bikes, too, for a while. Travel. Oh, my God, talk about freaking nuts. That was my.
- [58:53]
Kenny Wallace
Let me have that. Let me have that. Mountain bikes.
- [58:55]
Jamie Little
I didn't race professionally. I was definitely a novice, but I raced downhill at multiple places and. And that feeling of winning, that feeling of competition, all of it, I fed that. I fed that desire. And I continued to when I got in race cars and I got to do those things. But this is really, I think, who I am. I think I'm better as a voice for things of racing and spreading the good news about racing and. And the athletes, the drivers that we cover all the time. That is my calling. My calling wasn't to be a race car driver or, you know, a bike race or anything. This. I found my calling. But I got to have a lot of damn fun and a lot of good competition along the way.
- [59:38]
Kenny Wallace
I knew 90 of this about you, but you. You filled so many holes, and I. I'm just, just. And so complete right now because I. Once again, I know it's my third time I'm repeating this. You know, I have Brooke, Brandy and Brittany. I know.
- [59:53]
Jamie Little
Beautiful family, Kenny. Well, babies, I love it.
- [59:56]
Kenny Wallace
You know, my brother. My brother Mike's daughter, Chrissy, she raced, so. Man, I'm having so much fun. We're at 55 minutes already and I. I gotta ask you these other questions. I know you're in Daytona. I know I. I need to let you go. But let's. Let's get to the end here and. And ask you some things about not. Not your personal life, but you.
- [60:22]
Jamie Little
You.
- [60:23]
Kenny Wallace
You are so, you know, worldly. You become famous a handful of years ago with starting a company. Nothing. Bunt cakes. Tell me about this business. You do good things. Every once in a while you go to give some free cakes away. Nothing. Bunt cakes in Indianapolis. That's where you live. Tell me about this business you say you and your husband got going.
- [60:49]
Jamie Little
Yes, it's actually a national brand, Kenny. So we're franchisees. It started in Las Vegas and I just. I love the cake. Anybody that's heard of nothing, bun cakes always says the same thing. It's just. It's joyful. It's something that you share with people, and they're never going to be bummed when you give them a cake. Right?
- [61:07]
Commercial Announcer
Right.
- [61:07]
Jamie Little
So my husband and I were in Vegas. I was pregnant with my daughter. I landed home from a race one day, and I said, honey, I don't want to raise our kids in Vegas. I just. I. I wanted to go to greener pastures. And what do you think about going to Indy? He's from Indy. And he was like, let's go.
- [61:23]
Kenny Wallace
Hold on. This is a Howard Stern moment. Without being mean, because I want. I want to make sure you know I'm not a mean person. I probably know your answer, but tell me, why not Vegas?
- [61:38]
Jamie Little
Vegas was tough for me as a teenager. There's just. I mean, you can use your imagination. There's so much out there. Yes. There. It's toxic. And there's a lot of great things. There's neighborhoods, communities. My parents are still there. I absolutely love Vegas. But the schools weren't very good. The public school system is actually terrible in Nevada. And I just wanted more and better for my kids. And honestly, I wanted green grass. In Vegas, you can't even have green grass. If you build a new house, you have to get turf. Like, there's a water shortage. Like, I want trees that grow naturally and grass and those things for my kids, for my dogs. And Indiana has that. And they have the seasons. You get the crazy winters, and. And you've got beautiful springs and falls. And I wanted all that. And I knew the people of Indiana were amazing. I spent so much time there in all the years I covered the IndyCar series, the Indy 5, 100. I had family there. Cody's family is there. So we moved, and we needed something else to do. Cody, he had Jimmy John's franchises in Vegas. He's like, well, what kind of franchise can we start there? So we said, let's bring nothing bunt cakes to Indiana. People love their sweets everywhere. So now we have three, and it's a national franchise. And. And they do great, Kenny. And we love to give cake. I'm kind of known as the cake lady. The. These days. Forget the racing lady. I'm the cake lady.
- [62:59]
Kenny Wallace
So my wife told me to tell you. My wife, Kim.
- [63:02]
Jamie Little
Yes.
- [63:02]
Kenny Wallace
Says, we want to buy some white chocolate raspberry. Does that make sense?
- [63:08]
Jamie Little
Yes. That's our number one flavor. Kim knows what's up.
- [63:10]
Kenny Wallace
Okay. So do you ship?
- [63:14]
Jamie Little
We don't ship. But for the St. Louis race, Kenny, I would gladly bring our cakes made from our bakery. I will drive them to your house. House?
- [63:22]
Stephen Dubner
You're.
- [63:22]
Kenny Wallace
No. Okay. That's awesome.
- [63:26]
Jamie Little
They'll be chilled. I'll deliver them to you and Kim.
- [63:29]
Kenny Wallace
Okay. You're awesome. I really appreciate that because I was telling Kim about having a conversation with you and. And, you know, bringing myself up to date on things that I don't know about you. So another thing that I don't know about you that I saw on X, and you have it pinned to the top, is you have a mountain home rental in Tennessee. It looks beautiful. Tell me about that.
- [63:57]
Jamie Little
I love Tennessee. Yeah, Kenny, I mean, you know, TV is not going to be around forever. You know, when you get tired of seeing this mug, they're going to be like, all right, we're not giving you a new contract, and I better have my in order and. And some investments lined up. So for you, we got into this rental business, and we found this amazing brand new home in towns in Tennessee. So if you've gone to Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge, they call it the. The peaceful side of the smoky. So it's right on the other side of the mountain. It's like 25 minutes from pigeon Forge. And it's just this beautiful community. Just, you know, it's the mountains, it's the rivers, it's everything. And. And it's a rental, so you can get it on Brbo or Airbnb, whatever, and it's just fun. It's. It's. It's a great little place for us to visit, for other people to enjoy. And, you know, I just like having different business ventures and especially ones that we can enjoy as well.
- [64:50]
Kenny Wallace
And I want to brag on myself for a minute. People said, hey, you got all that NASCAR money? I'm like, nope. I had a lot of rental property, and I invested in real estate. Most of my money was made in real estate. So I just want to brag on you for a minute.
- [65:05]
Jamie Little
Good job, Kenny. It is. My mom always told me that diversify first, but that rental properties, properties in general is the way to go.
- [65:14]
Kenny Wallace
I. I nurtured my stuff, sold it all to David Reagan, and there's more to say, but now there's coffee with
- [65:21]
Jamie Little
Kenny every day doing whatever the hell you want to do.
- [65:24]
Kenny Wallace
And can you believe I'm totally retired? And Charlie right now is behind the camera here. He called me one day and he goes, let me start you a YouTube channel. I told Charlie I Said, charlie, I'm too busy running the dirt car. I don't want to do this. Jamie, this is the most. This is the funnest hobby I've ever had.
- [65:41]
Jamie Little
It's perfect for you.
- [65:43]
Kenny Wallace
I went. I went to Key Largo in December and had the biggest attaboy moment. Ben Kennedy was down there and he said, hey, I love your YouTube show. And I said, that's all I needed to hear because I'm sure I had pissed them off in the past. But come to find out, you know, when you talk from the heart, that happens every once in a while. Well, so, yeah, your real estate now. Do you have Jimmy John still or did you.
- [66:11]
Jamie Little
We just got rid of Jimmy John's in Vegas, so we're building that. That bakery franchise, that. That empire. Kenny. It's all about sweet treats and.
- [66:21]
Kenny Wallace
And mountain homes.
- [66:22]
Jamie Little
That's right.
- [66:23]
Kenny Wallace
Well, all right. So we're coming to the end. This is it. And I do this with every athlete in nascar, but we changed it just a little bit. We don't get so technical. We're going to end the show like this because you know what's up. Jamie knows what's up in nascar. What are your thoughts on NASCAR today?
- [66:51]
Jamie Little
I think NASCAR today is. Is in a really good place, in a healthy place. We're moving, we're changing. We're doing things differently than we've done in the past, yet we're holding on to those things that made us great. Ben Kennedy has this vision. The clash at the Coliseum, racing on the streets in Chicago. I mean, we're trying different things, and we're taking NASCAR to new fans, and that's what we have to do. We have to think outside the box. We have to think about a new audience while also welcoming and embracing those that have stood by us for so long. I think we're in a great place. There's so many amazing, talented young drivers coming up through the ranks. Our pit crew guys, these tremendous athletes that you watched in college football or basketball, whatever it is. It's just. The level is just being raised and. And the sport is so competitive, Kenny. And every year, like, it's media day. Today we're going to hear from these guys. I mean, it's like the first day of school. It's so exciting. We're so proud to be part of this sport, the second biggest sport to the NFL, which is king of all.
- [67:57]
Kenny Wallace
And there you are, the first lady of motorsports TV. 13 years old, moved to Vegas kind of on your own, and you really grew up with just a single parent mom. And this is a message for all of you ladies out there. Look at Jamie go. Listen, everybody, this is it. We are in podcast form now. And boy, that's growing bigger and better. And this is one hour, so you can listen to Jamie on your way to work and then you can listen to her on the way back home. Remember, we're in itunes, we're in Spotify, or right here on on Kenny Conversation. Jamie, thank you so much.
- [68:39]
Jamie Little
Thank you, Kenny. It's always good to talk to you. I'm so glad you're doing this show and I was so happy you asked me to be on.
- [68:45]
Kenny Wallace
Have a great Daytona 500.
- [68:49]
Jamie Little
Thank you. You have a great week, too.
- [68:51]
Kenny Wallace
Goodbye, everybody. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.
- [69:05]
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- [69:34]
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