Herm & Schrader Podcast – “Jeff Burton: We Took Their Sport From Them”

Date: January 22, 2026
Hosts: Kenny Wallace & Ken Schrader
Guest: Jeff Burton
Network: SiriusXM, Dirty Mo Media

Main Theme

Kenny Wallace welcomes Jeff Burton for an open, candid conversation dissecting the last 20 years of tumult and transformation within NASCAR, the fan backlash, and the return to tradition in 2026. Through laughter, memories, and honesty, Burton analyzes where NASCAR has gone wrong, why—and what course corrections the sport is making to regain fan trust and excitement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jeff Burton's Multifaceted Role in NASCAR

• Color commentator for USA Sports and a central figure for the Drivers Advisory Council (DAC).
• DAC’s Mission: Foster a collective driver voice on issues of safety, competition, and communication with NASCAR leadership.
  • “It’s important… for drivers to be involved in their safety… not to… NASCAR does an incredible job. There’s a leader in the industry… but having the drivers involved… having the driver’s voices heard about what they’re actually experiencing in an effort to put the best racing on.” – Jeff Burton (04:46)
• Recent move: Hiring Chip Wile to manage the business side of the DAC, freeing Burton to focus on key issues (03:39).

1.1 Burton as a Pioneer for Safety

• First to show up at Daytona with a full containment seat and the HANS device, inspiring change despite skepticism in the garage.
  • “You looked like you were in a cocoon… But, Jeff, how brave you were… Tell me about those days when you were driving for Roush….” – Kenny Wallace (05:35)
  • “…Life’s evolution, right?… And what I learned about the safety thing was, some people didn’t want to know…” – Jeff Burton (07:08)
• Burton admits initial resistance to mandatory safety equipment, before recognizing its necessity after witnessing repeated tragedies.

1.2 Active Track Safety Inspection

• Drivers (guided by the DAC and Jeff) now collaboratively walk tracks with NASCAR and proactively address risks (09:43).
  • Examples: Mexico City’s track limits, Atlanta Motor Speedway’s wall design (11:53).

2. Industry Transitions and the Role of Veteran Drivers

• Wallace likens Burton’s continued involvement to Tom Brady’s enduring presence in football—“You’re still in it because you love it, not for money.” (14:10)
• Both Wallace and Burton reflect on their generations giving back to NASCAR after driving—through advocacy, media, and mentoring. (13:17)

3. NASCAR's 20-Year “Firestorm”: What Went Wrong and What’s Changed

3.1 The “About Face” and 2026 Changes (16:00)

Wallace lists a litany of seismic shifts as NASCAR strives to reconnect with its core audience:

• The “Hell Yeah Tour”: NASCAR’s new marketing, proudly embracing its “redneck” roots.
• Dismissal of Steve Phelps as President, a response to fan pressure.
• Simple “Chase” points system returns (26 races, top 16 advance, 10-race playoff).
• Inclusion of internet figures like Cletus McFarland, new country music partnerships.
• Tony Stewart racing again in the Truck Series—the return of legends.

3.2 Burton’s Honest Systemic Analysis

• Points system implemented “all the stated goals,” except growing the fanbase.
  • “…every goal that was put in front of that group got met… But… [we] didn’t grow the fan base.” – Jeff Burton (26:57)
• Fans rejected changes that felt “inauthentic”—they want NASCAR to be itself, not a copy of stick-and-ball sports.
• “…the one race championship thing created a scenario where drivers were telling me, ‘Look, if I don’t win a championship, whatever.’ That’s not good… Fans need to believe in the authenticity of the championship, and many didn’t.” – Jeff Burton (31:18)
• Notable quote on fan alienation:
  • “I think what happened was, we took away their sport. They owned it, and we changed their sport.” – Jeff Burton (33:45)

4. Communication Breakdown & Fixing Fan Trust

• Wallace and Burton agree that during the last two decades, NASCAR failed to clearly communicate with its core fans about decision-making and actively listening to their input (35:45).
• “…There was some acknowledgment. But what are we doing about it?… I think the biggest mistake wasn’t in trying something different. It was in not adjusting quick enough to get back.” – Jeff Burton (38:08)
• Social media complicates fan engagement (“Your algorithm will go to where you want it to go…” – Burton, 37:24).

5. Points System Debate & Revivals

5.1 Simplicity and Transparency

• The new Chase-style points system praised for being easy to explain, which is “vital.”
  • “It needs to be quick and easy to explain. And you know, certainly this one’s way easier than the previous one.” – Jeff Burton (54:53)
• 16 drivers in the playoff “gets more sponsors into the mix,” essential for the sport’s business model. (49:08)

5.2 Focus on Drivers

• Mark Martin lamented modern coverage for emphasizing points and cutoffs over drivers.
  • “…I got so tired of watching TV and the announcers kept building up the playoffs, the cutoff. And he said, we forgot about the drivers.” – Kenny Wallace, quoting Mark (43:23)
• Burton says broadcasters must balance highlighting top performers and telling deeper stories about the field (44:42–45:39).

6. What Really Happened to NASCAR’s Popularity?

6.1 Ben Kennedy’s “Perfect Storm” Theory

• 2008 economic collapse, mass retirement of star drivers, generational transition.
• Burton’s conclusion: In the chase for new fans, NASCAR neglected its base—“the guy already taking his kid to the race”—by changing the sport they loved (57:33–58:12).
  • “That possessive feeling is what… we need. We need people to feel like it’s theirs.” – Jeff Burton (58:20)
  • “We all tried too hard. That’s simple.” – Jeff Burton (57:32)

6.2 Acknowledging Mistakes, Inviting Fans Back

• NASCAR is now actively admitting errors and trying to fix them: “NASCAR has acknowledged the mistakes not just in words but in action.” (60:49)
• Burton appeals for fans to give the sport another chance:
  • “…Let’s appreciate the fact that NASCAR said, okay, we got to change this. Yeah. …NASCAR needs you.” – Jeff Burton (60:45–61:30)

7. Practice, On-Track Experience & RV Culture

• Wallace raises the issue of NASCAR restricting practice, possibly damaging race day atmosphere and infield attendance.
• Burton nuanced: Practice reductions were cost-driven but maybe “taking our product away doesn’t seem like the best way to promote.” (64:14)
• Acknowledges that other major motorsports series allow far more on-track action.

8. Why F1 Succeeds with Dull Racing & The Global Expansion Push

F1:

• “Just different”: Fans abroad embrace process and personality as much as competitive parity. Netflix's "Drive to Survive" boosted interest among new demographics. (68:04–68:54)
• In contrast, U.S. NASCAR fans expect (and demand) race drama in every event (69:56).

NASCAR Abroad:

• Wallace and Schrader have mixed feelings about the urge to push NASCAR internationally (70:32).
• Burton: All sports face pressure to try new things, but “when do you do something different? And what is that different? You can’t always stay the same.” (71:36)

9. Is the Firestorm Over?

• Burton: “I think we all believe this is the right step… But none of us really know… There is no magic pill that we’re going to take that’s going to get us back to the max popularity… This is a step toward what we all hope is the right thing.” (73:32–75:44)
  • Authenticity, tradition, and driver credibility are prioritized moving forward.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Safety Innovation:

  • “I wasn’t the only one doing it, but I became really interested in it and wasn’t afraid to get smarter about it… Every one of us, if we really think about it, we all knew we were going to get hurt. I mean, it was part of the game, and let’s just try to limit it.” – Jeff Burton (08:14)

• On the Points System Firestorm:

  • “I think what happened was, we took away their sport. They owned it, and we changed their sport.” – Jeff Burton (33:45)

• On Transparency:

  • “NASCAR needs you. Right. They really made some decisions they thought were best for you and they were wrong. Yeah. So they're righting the ship, they're righting it... I would ask you that you give NASCAR a second chance and to appreciate that they ultimately did make some decisions, that your voice was heard…” – Jeff Burton (61:30)

• On Trying Too Hard:

  • “We just, as an industry, we just, I think, try too hard.” – Jeff Burton (59:36)

Key Timestamps

• 03:39 – How the Drivers Advisory Council is structured and its evolution.
• 06:25 – Burton's story on bringing safety innovation into NASCAR.
• 09:43 – On walking tracks to identify safety issues collaboratively.
• 16:00 – Wallace sets the stage for NASCAR's recent “about-face” (marketing, presidency, points system, celebrities, etc.).
• 25:53–29:00 – Burton’s breakdown: why the old system failed and how authenticity matters most.
• 33:45 – Burton: “We took away their sport.”
• 43:23 – Mark Martin’s lament about the coverage’s focus on cutoffs over drivers.
• 54:05 – Explaining the simplicity of the new playoff/points structure.
• 57:33 – How the drive for new fans led NASCAR to neglect its core.
• 61:30 – Burton’s appeal for fans to give NASCAR another shot.
• 64:14 – Discussion about NASCAR practice, on-track events, and fan engagement.
• 73:32–75:44 – Is the “firestorm” over? Burton’s sober summary.

Conclusion

Jeff Burton delivers a brutally frank, yet deeply hopeful diagnosis for NASCAR. He acknowledges past missteps—most notably, efforts to please everyone by changing what made NASCAR unique. Now, with a return to its roots, simpler points, fan-first marketing, and a transparent willingness to admit mistakes, the sport is asking jilted fans for another chance. Both Wallace and Burton agree: there’s no quick fix, but with authenticity, humility, and civil debate among all stakeholders, NASCAR’s best days may yet be ahead.

Final Word:
“Having drivers feel that [winning a championship] means something, having drivers agonize over not winning one, having fans believe it’s much more authentic. How is that part wrong? Yeah, that can’t be wrong. But does it ultimately… get more viewers watching? Only time will tell that, but for sure it is more authentic to what this sport has been in its past.”
– Jeff Burton (75:22)