Kurt Busch On His Illustrious NASCAR Career, Running The Indy 500, & Dealing with Head Injuries

Summary

Herm & Schrader Podcast Episode Summary: "Kurt Busch On His Illustrious NASCAR Career, Running The Indy 500, & Dealing with Head Injuries"

Release Date: May 15, 2025
Hosts: Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader
Guest: Kurt Busch

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Herm & Schrader, hosts Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader engage in an in-depth conversation with NASCAR legend Kurt Busch. The discussion spans Busch's remarkable NASCAR career, his daring venture into the Indy 500, and the challenges he faced dealing with head injuries that ultimately influenced his decision to retire.

Early Career and the Gong Show

Kurt Busch opens up about his entry into NASCAR, highlighting the pivotal moment that launched his career.

Kurt Busch [09:50]: "But at Phoenix, I had raced some Southwest Tour races there, and so had all the others. And my slowest lap, Kenny, I honestly, like. I'll tell you the truth, was everyone's fastest lap in the practice session. And so I went out there and started ripping around in the Xide truck."

Kenny Wallace recalls how Busch's undeniable talent led him to secure his first NASCAR ride through the infamous "Gong Show" at Roush Racing.

Kurt Busch [10:47]: "And I went to an old friend, a mentor of mine, named Mark Martin. And I asked Mark, I go, mark, why did you stay in it so many years after you said you were going to retire? And he says, kurt, because the phone kept ringing. I said, done. You got it? I understand. Yes, sir."

Dominating NASCAR

Busch reflects on his illustrious NASCAR statistics and what they mean to him beyond the numbers.

Kurt Busch [05:28]: "You don't think about stats when you first start out and you're just driving, driving, have fun... it's honestly the first thing you know, the team and the team camaraderie with everyone. Because that's the family that I enjoy now in NASCAR after I've been, you know, from full-time racing now just hanging with 2311."

Kenny Wallace commends Busch's driving prowess, emphasizing his ability to keep the car neutral yet aggressive.

Kenny Wallace [06:27]: "Is your ability to drive the car neutral? Does anybody ever tell you that you can drive a car loose?"

Kurt Busch [06:49]: "Yeah, those are the comparisons that I've seen over the years with different teammates... it's always like I was a percent or 2% looser on the crossweight."

Venturing into the Indy 500

One of the standout segments of the episode delves into Busch's ambitious foray into the Indy 500, showcasing his versatility as a driver.

Kurt Busch [13:11]: "It was a journey. I mean, January 1st I didn't have a contract, but mentally I went to work and I would run to the gym... I just signed with Stewart Haas racing in the Cup Series. And with this adventure, I wanted to challenge myself with something new where I thought I could do well."

Busch shares vivid details of his rookie test and actual race experience, demonstrating his adaptability and skill.

Kurt Busch [16:03]: "I was doing 217 talking to Elvis. I'm like, you ready? You ready? Oh, wait, the corner's here. I gotta go... And I was like, just don't turn in too early... that was the Indy rookie test."

Despite not winning, Busch finishes a commendable sixth place, underscoring his talent and determination.

Kurt Busch [20:23]: "Learning to go through turn two wide open, and you're going to lift a little bit on the straightaway, but by the time you go through four, you got to hold it... That's all I could get was sixth out of it because those guys are about ready to hand me my lunch."

Dealing with Head Injuries and Retirement

The conversation takes a poignant turn as Busch discusses the severe impact of head injuries on his career and personal life, leading to his eventual retirement.

Kurt Busch [25:53]: "In the fall, low level day for Kurt Bush and team. It's like, dude, things change once you start accumulating all of them."

Kurt Busch [29:25]: "That's why it was a tough decision, but it wasn't like the one moment from Pocono. It was a lot of things then."

Busch candidly recounts the struggles with concussions and their lingering effects, emphasizing the difficult choice to step away from racing for his health.

Kurt Busch [30:32]: "But my arthritis and different things swelling up in my body now because I'm working out too much. That's why it became too much. And I said, you know what? I gotta make this decision."

Reflections on NASCAR and Teams

Busch reflects on his relationships with various racing teams and his role beyond being a driver.

Kurt Busch [32:07]: "With Finch... we almost won Sonoma. It was the setup. I tried to remember as much of the setup I had won the year prior in the shell car with Penske."

Kurt Busch [33:35]: "It's work in all areas, you know, whether it's, you know, I was at a Toyota event with their Supra program and seeing some of the drivers over there... it's like, all right, let's look at it this way."

Busch highlights the importance of teamwork and his contributions as a mentor and advisor within the racing community.

Opinions on Current NASCAR Issues

In the latter half of the episode, Busch shares his insights on various contemporary issues within NASCAR, including the next-gen car, technical inspections, and record fines.

Next-Gen Car

Busch expresses concerns about the rigidity of the new cars and the ongoing need for development to enhance safety and performance.

Kurt Busch [49:35]: "It needs its continued development. I think we've seen a lot of cars hit this year and the rear gets crumpled up in a better manner."

Technical Inspections

Comparing NASCAR's inspection process to IndyCar's, Busch advocates for greater transparency and the introduction of independent officials to maintain integrity.

Kurt Busch [51:09]: "I like it. I just wish it was transparent that all teams could see where everybody was... Maybe we need a third-party independent set of officials."

Record-Setting Fines

Busch discusses the implications of hefty fines on teams and suggests that while they are necessary, the distribution of fine funds could be improved.

Kurt Busch [52:46]: "I mean everything is so close. But when you mess up and you're out of that box, you gotta get your hand slapped."

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Busch reflects on his journey, expressing gratitude for the support systems that have enabled his successful career while acknowledging the personal sacrifices made along the way.

Kurt Busch [44:11]: "It's been fun though. I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it in. I mean, I'm a blue-collar kid from Vegas making $18 an hour, which was big money back as a teenager."

Kurt Busch [54:32]: "Always for a racer. We come from a racing family and we're always here to help each other in the NASCAR world, my friend."

Kenny Wallace closes the conversation with heartfelt appreciation for Busch's transparency and contributions to the sport, leaving listeners with a profound understanding of the complexities behind a NASCAR career.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kurt Busch [05:28]: "You don't think about stats when you first start out and you're just driving, driving, have fun."
• Kurt Busch [13:11]: "I wanted to challenge myself with something new where I thought I could do well."
• Kurt Busch [25:53]: "I can't race."
• Kurt Busch [51:09]: "Maybe we need a third-party independent set of officials."

This episode offers an intimate glimpse into Kurt Busch's racing life, his triumphs, adversities, and the personal decisions that shaped his illustrious career. For fans and newcomers alike, Busch's candid reflections provide valuable insights into the high-stakes world of NASCAR.

Transcript

[Kenny Wallace]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com to fix your vehicles up. Man, I am so lucky right now because I believe we have one of the greatest talents in NASCAR history, Kurt Busch. Kurt welcome to Kenny Conversation.

[Kurt Busch]

What's up my friend? Kenny, how are you buddy?

[Kenny Wallace]

Thanks for the I'm doing really good. You got one hell of a backdrop there of the Wood Brothers. Where are you at?

[Kurt Busch]

So I'm at Charlotte Motor Speedway. We just finished painting the walls pink. I've been doing a program real quick, just sponsor plug, but it's for a foundation. The Pink Window Nets Window of Hope. And so I was like man, I got to get Kenny on the show real quick while I have good wi fi here at the Track. And I looked around, and this was the best backdrop. I mean, I got Dale Senior and Junior right here. Kyle and I are over there, but it's above the door. So I was like, the Wood Brothers, man. You can't go wrong with the Wood Brothers, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

You do. You got it going on. And, you know, the kitty conversation is just that. We're going to be everywhere. But, yes, October, Breast Cancer Awareness Month. And I know Jegs is going to have me wearing pink. So you've been doing that for quite a few years, haven't you, at the Charlotte Motor Speedway?

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, this is the third year that I've been involved with Window of Hope, the race track. They've been painting the walls pink, they said. Eleven years.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Kurt Busch]

And it's a cool collaborative initiative that all of our community, you know that Kenny, like Martinsville painted the curbs pink. Different tracks do different recognition moments. And for me, when I do different programs, like with the military, and you meet some of these men and women who have served, every story is different on how they got there or, you know, their injury, you know, and every story is different with the ladies with their breast cancer and the survivors and some that don't, and some of the families that are still here giving back to the community to help the ladies.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, Kurt, let's get to it. My friend, my brother Rusty always says, herm, it's sad to say you have to remind people, because they remember what they want to. So I'm gonna say this. Just give me a minute. I'm gonna. I'm gonna read all this off, and then I want your opinion. Okay? Kurt Busch. 776 NASCAR races over 23 years, 34 wins. Now listen to this. Here we go. This is going to give you goosebumps. 2003 IROC champion. 2004 NASCAR cup champion. 2010 Coke 600. Where you're at right now, right in that media room, 2010 All Star winner right there at Charlotte. 2011 Bud Shootout winner. Now, this is one of my favorite ones right here. 2014 Indianapolis 500 rookie of the year, and then winner of the 2017 Daytona 500. Now, Kurt, in my opinion, you. You've truly done it all. When I. When I read those stats to you, where does your brain go?

[Kurt Busch]

You know, the first thing that comes to mind is all the race teams and the privilege that I've had to be at this top level of NASCAR for so long. It's the people, and all the different teams and sponsors have raced for it. That's honestly the first thing you know, you don't think about stats when you first start out and you're just driving, driving, have fun. You know, I've won stuff, I've wrecked stuff. You know, it's the first thing that really just comes to mind though is the team and the team camaraderie with everyone. Because that's the family that I enjoy now in NASCAR after I've been, you know, from full time racing now just hanging with 2311. It's, it's about the crew members, the team and the family of nascar.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well, you know, I think from driver to driver, I think about incredible talent, how you're able to drive a car so neutral. I jumped in one of your cars one time and I couldn't go as fast as you.

[Kurt Busch]

I remember all that in Phoenix.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's, that's another story. But know, my point is, is you're so talented, I, I had to tighten the car up. And I think one of the reason you're, you're so great and one of the greatest and you're definitely going into the hall of fame. But is your ability to drive the car neutral? Does anybody ever tell you that you can drive a car loose?

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, those are the, the comparisons that I've seen over the years with different teammates. You know, going back to when I first started racing with my dad, it was his setup. I just drove it and I go, dad, it's, it's too tight.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, you were born that way. You were born loose.

[Kurt Busch]

I want to be up on the right rear tire. But yet, but yet I love the asphalt. Like, I, I struggled on dirt. I mean, I started on dirt in a little dwarf car, which is basically like a legends car. And then when we got into the legends, it was because we could travel and go to different tracks with the same engine. You know, the spec series style, tech inspection. And so we went around to a bunch of asphalt tracks. And my dad, he had his legend car, but it was always like I was a percent or 2% looser on the crossweight.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'll be damn. Isn't that something else is sitting there at 48 and you're down around 45, 46. I love it. So, you know, everybody, you know, we, we can't, we can't go too far back because we'd be here five, six hours. But I want to, I want to hit this button and I want you. I'm gonna, I'm gonna say this and you tell me if it's accurate. So Paul Mecca, when he was with xide batteries One of your early sponsors, he said that you got the ride in nascar, your very first ride, because you entered the Gong show with Roush Racing, and you were. You won. You were the best driver. Is that true? Is that how you got into nascar?

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, it was. It was a tryout series.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, my God.

[Kurt Busch]

I met Paul. I saw Paul Mecca at the Gator Nationals this year. And so that's 25 years later from when I first got the opportunity to do this Gong Show. So Roush Racing. Jack Roush, he's old school. There was a show back in the 70s or 80s, I remember it, called the Gong Show. And so five. Five guys got invited. And the long and the short story of this is basically, there was the Northwest Tour champion, Southwest Tour, there was the Goodies Dash champion, Robert Huffman. There was somebody from the Northeast, maybe it was a Solder from the Midwest. I think it was Tim Solder.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And then it was Gary Lewis, Northwest Tour. I was Southwest Tour. And the five of us, we got a set of tires and we got 20 laps of practice, and they got another set of tires and they made us do a 50 lap run. And so the second test session, what track was this? The second test session was Phoenix International Raceway. The first one was Toledo, Ohio. And I got my. My rear end handed to me by Toledo, Ohio. I about wrecked the truck on lap zero.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And.

[Kurt Busch]

But at Phoenix, I had raced some Southwest Tour races there, and so had all the others. And my slowest lap, Kenny, I honestly, like. I'll tell you the truth, was everyone's fastest lap in the practice session. And so I went out there and started ripping around in the Xide truck. Greg Biffle was there supervising. We had Max Jones, the general manager. And I knew at the end of that day, I called my dad on my old flip phone. Yeah, I go, dad, I did really good. If I don't get the job, I know that I'm just as comparable to whoever got the job. We can still do this, you know, maybe we got to go to Winston west or find other cars to drive. And it was about two months later, I got a phone call from the president of Roush Racing, Jeff Smith. And he says, how do you like Detroit weather? I'm like, I got the job.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I got the job.

[Kenny Wallace]

I don't care what's freezing.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. And so I got. I got the job. And then my first race was Daytona in the truck, and I finished second, and the rest is history. I raced against your brother Mike. Him and I were rivals in the trucks.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well, you know, when I listen to a story like that, I think about how you earned where you're at in NASCAR 110% by talent alone. I can't brag on you enough just because I've raced around you before and I. I see what a great driver you are. So something. You know, there's so much to talk about, but we got to condense it. Hey, it's Dale Jr. Did you know that we've got brand new merch from our Star Stripes and Beers collection available now? We've got tanks, tees, beach towels and more just in time for summer. Check it all out at shop.dirtymomedia.com creativity.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kurt Busch]

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[Kenny Wallace]

You'Re double that you did when you went into the Indy 500 and then you went to the Coke 600. Now we know you broke a motor in the Coke 600, but Kurt, how in the world did you jump into an Indy car and finish six in the Indy 500? That tells me your talent level, but just give me some highlights of that whole journey in the Indianapolis 500.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, it was a journey. I mean, January 1st I didn't have a contract, but mentally I went to work and I would run to the gym, which was three miles. I would go and work out with the instructor. I did different martial arts movements. I did different pilates, yoga. I just, I wanted to change my game in motorsports. I just signed with Stewart Haas racing in the Cup Series. And with this adventure, I wanted to challenge myself with something new where I Thought I could do well. I thought I could finish 15th was my goal. I'm like, I can go to Indy, and I think I can beat half those guys.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And I got the ride with Andretti Autosport. That contract came together in April. And so to have two quality teams, that's the number one thing to do, is I had an SHR team and I had an Andretti Autosport team to help me do the double. You know what I'm saying?

[Kenny Wallace]

It's that team. I'm writing that down. I didn't know it was with Andretti. That's really interesting.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. So that's where you want to go to do well, and you got to have the quality teams behind you. And my indie rookie test, you know, they had sent me out there. My first lap, you know, a bug starts. Bug started hitting my visor on the back straightaway, and I'm like, oh, my God, this is so cool. I haven't been on dirt in forever, and I haven't been in an open cockpit in forever. And so bugs are hitting my visor. I'm like, yeah, I get to pull a tear off again. I was just like a kid. The first rookie test, right at the end of the day, once I got wide open all the way around and that sequence, Michael Andretti's there getting it wide open for the first time. He goes, what's the toughest corner at Indianapolis? And I said, turn one. He goes, you're spot on. Right, Right. You see where he's going with this, Kenny? He goes, hey, what's the toughest corner? Second toughest. I go turn three. He goes, what's the easiest corner? I said, turn four. So you time it to where you go through turn four wide open, then you still lift on the straightaway, and then you're wide open through the corners, right? And then you got to lift a little bit on straightaways before the next corner. So he says, go through turn two wide open, and then go into three. And you're going to lift a little bit on the straightaway, but by the time you go through four, you got to hold it wide open through four. Hit turn one. Hit turn two. Hit turn three. So it was, you know, just getting up to speed, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

I really like this.

[Kurt Busch]

I'm wide open through. Through four, and now I'm coming to one, and it's time. And I had this long conversation with myself down the front straightaway.

[Kenny Wallace]

God.

[Kurt Busch]

And I'm doing. I'm doing 217 talking to Elvis. I'm like, you Ready? You ready? You guys ready? Oh, wait, the corner's here. I gotta go. And I was like, just don't turn in too early. And I was wide open through one. Made it. I'm like, oh, my God, I suck. Oh, here's turn two. Hold it right up and go through two. And then by the time I did three and four and back through one, things started to settle. And now I'm doing two hundred and nineteen miles per hour average speed. That was the Indy rookie test. You know, when we're there for practice and qualifying. Now we're doing 231, my lord. 231. And after I did my first practice qualifying run, Tony Stewart comes over and he goes, hey, did turns one and two just turn into one corner now? And literally you're going so fast, the brain can't digest that there's even a short shoot anymore. That's how fast the IndyCar gets around Indianapolis.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me ask you this. You know when you got up to speed and you held it wide open, you're doing 219. How do you end up getting to 230? Do they trim it out more or.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, they do two things. So basically they just add boost and then they're taking downforce off the car because now that you're going faster, you can take downforce off because you get it from the speed.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you're gaining. Yeah, I get it. Got to get at the speed to get all the downforce.

[Kurt Busch]

And then there's little things they did. You know, I can't get into too much of it, but it's amazing. It's basically, they just turn up the boost and here you. Here you go.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. What's the difference between running wide open in an Indy car at Indy and let's say, going to your first super Speedway? I assume it would. Would it be Daytona or Talladega? And so what's the difference between holding it wide open at Indy in an Indy car or running wide open at Daytona or Talladega for your first time?

[Kurt Busch]

Remember back in the day, like at Daytona and especially Daytona, Talladega, not so much, but you had to have handling in your car and still be able to hold it wide open.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Now it's just super simple, Right? We're just wide open. That was what the IndyCar was like. It was the old school NASCAR car where the tires would drop off and it took the big balls to hold it wide open and still keep your speed. And with the IndyCar, there's the weight jacker. I can change cross Weight.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, my. I didn't know that.

[Kurt Busch]

You can change cross weight in the car. You can change your fuel settings. There's a sway bar adjuster. I had a sway bar adjuster.

[Kenny Wallace]

Did you use all those adjustments?

[Kurt Busch]

I, I, when I wrecked and practiced, I stopped messing with stuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

Reminds me of a dirt racer. Daryl Walter once said, I get rid of that brake adjuster, I'm messing myself up.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, Yeah. I was just like, after the wreck, I'm gonna keep it simple. Stupid. And in the race to finish up this story, I just went out there to not make mistakes. I didn't want to speed on pit road. I didn't want to hit any tires or any crew members on pit road. I took everything at around a 90% level until halfway. And when I got to halfway, why did I change my mentality? I said, you're done learning. This is all you're going to learn. You got to go now. And so at halfway, you know, I was able to go to, like, full fuel and had the power. Our pit sequence had been on the right pit sequence, and we started moving up. Next thing you know, I'm running ninth.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

A couple guys wreck. I'm running seventh.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Townsend Bell wrecked off turn two, right where I did in practice. And the team says, hey, we got to take downforce off for this final set of tires. That's how you win this thing. And I'm like, man, I already have the yips. I already have the, the wiggle and turn to.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

I just watched a guy wreck right where I did.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Kurt Busch]

The guys, we can't do it. We're like, no, we have to. I'm like, no, we can't. We got to leave the downforce on it. And so came off pit road in six right behind Juan Pablo Montoya.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Kurt Busch]

He's behind Elio Castro. Nevis, you're there. Ryan Hunter Ray won it. He's right there. Marco Andretti's in the mix. I'm like, Will Powers behind me. Sebastian Bourde is behind me.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm like, you're with all the big boys.

[Kurt Busch]

I'm like, and you are one. So when we took that last restart, this is like 10 to go maybe. I went to go to pass Montoya on the outside of turn one because I had a run on him and he wanted to just take me up to the marbles. And I'm like, this is a Colombian. I already had trouble passing the Russian earlier.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Now you get into the country and the nationalities and just how mean. Yeah. And so I was Like I checked up on Montoya, now I'm blocking Will Power, the Aussie, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, the nationalities, that's awesome.

[Kurt Busch]

It was really cool. And I'm like, man, I got to figure out how to keep my momentum but not lift too abruptly and settle right here. And that's all I could do. That's all I could get was sixth out of it because those guys are about ready to hand me my lunch.

[Kenny Wallace]

So when you, when you lift in those, do you, do you do like we do at Daytona? Do you drag break while you're. Because you don't want to come all the way out. How, how do you lift but not give up? You know, sucking air into the motor.

[Kurt Busch]

So you lift on the straightaway with those cars, but you do it very light. Like everything is very light and very nimble with your, with your movements and then you're wide open through the corners. So it was just a matter of the right timing and not losing momentum through the corners to kind of block and, and hold sixth place.

[Kenny Wallace]

Absolutely unbelievable. So I had talked to Chip Ganassi and I said, chip, I said, you got all this going on in IndyCar. You're a champion, you've won everything. Why do you run nascar? And Chip Ganassi said, we're in NASCAR because that's where the show's at. So is that right? I mean, why did. I mean, I know it costs a lot of money to stay in IndyCar, but do you believe NASCAR is the show? Is it, is it just more than indie racing?

[Kurt Busch]

You know, it's a, it's a delicate balance. But in all motorsports, you know, NASCAR in America is the top notch show like that. There's 25 teams that show up over here with a chance to win. IndyCar doesn't have that many. Our budget is probably six times the amount of money per car as an Indy car. Yeah, Indianapolis has that, that aura, that 250,000 people and that one race a year. Yeah, our Daytona is just as big, but we go and travel 36 races and we've got minimum 70,000 people that are at our events every week. That's, that's what he's talking about with the show and the production.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Creativity is at the heart of everything you do. And Adobe Creative Cloud helps you take your projects to the next level no matter what you're working on this semester, build pro level skills and create your best work. With Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere Pro and over 20 other powerful creative apps, students save over 65% on Adobe Creative Cloud. The Go to toolkit for everything from class projects to standout portfolios. Make your ideas shine in and out of the classroom. Visit adobe.com students to save big today.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Kenny Wallace]

I think that's interesting. Well, thanks for talking with me about India. I don't feel like that's been talked about enough. I feel like what you did there was absolutely unbelievable. And I truly believe that all race car drivers, we know how good each other is and none of us want to brag on each other and. But, you know, hell, I'm 60 now and I just want to brag on you because what you've done has, has been incredible. So had my brother Rusty on, and Rusty and I had a great conversation about the wrecks that he was in at Daytona. And we were talking about recovering, you know, from his Daytona wreck. And Rusty said, Rusty said, you know, to this day, when I get in the shower, he said, you know, and if I close my eyes and I'm, you know, washing my hair, he says, I, I get dizzy and I feel like all race car drivers, even me, I mean, I had a positional vertigo. You know, I lost a championship because of it. So you've been world news lately. You decided to retire from nascar because as hard as you tried, you just couldn't be where you wanted to be. So, you know, just looking back up your announcement a couple weeks ago, just address that a little bit, you know, about how you feel right now and what's up.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, I mean, long story long. There's never a long short story, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

You were world news and I appreciate you talking to me about this.

[Kurt Busch]

No, it, for me, you know, when I was with Ganassi and Monster Energy was looking at, you know, moving the sponsorship to Ty Gibbs, and maybe another driver was going to take over. And then Ganassi sold the team. It was like, you know what this is. I'm good. I'm satisfied with where everything ended up, you know, by winning Daytona late in my career, winning a championship early in my career. Yeah, I get running indie, running a pro stock car down at the Gator Nationals way back.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow. You know, I missed that one. But I did see that.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, I got you. I was going to get that one in there, nhra, but a phone call came in. A phone call came in from three different people. One was Denny Hamlin, one was Toyota, the director of their motorsports program, and one was this guy, the goat, named Michael Jordan. Wow.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And those three wanted me to come and race for them and start a second car at 2311. And I said, guys, I think I fulfilled everything that I wanted to do. But I'll tell you what I did, Kenny. I tell you what I said, guys, thank you. Let me think about this.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And I went to an old friend, a mentor of mine, named Mark Martin.

[Kenny Wallace]

Mark the Kid Martin.

[Kurt Busch]

And I asked Mark, I go, mark, why did you stay in it so many years after you said you were going to retire? And he says, kurt, because the phone kept ringing. I said, done. You got it? I understand. Yes, sir. And so I called Denny back, I called MJ back, I called the director of Toyota Motorsport, and I said, I'm in. And I said, monster, we got ourselves a team that we're going to go build and we're going to win together. I said, we did that at shr. We did that with Ganassi. Let's go do it again.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And so that's how the 2311 ride came about in the number 45 car. And, you know, I had to get. I dig deep. You know, I'm 44 at the time. You know, 44 years old. And, you know, the gym is tougher each day to get out of with your body's hurting more so. And now there's more therapists that I'm working with and massages and doing yoga and.

[Kenny Wallace]

Me, too, right?

[Kurt Busch]

Ages.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you're right. Right. It really is.

[Kurt Busch]

And so the season was going well. Things started off great in 2022 with the new team, and, you know, we wrecked a couple times. Bristol dirt. That one. That one. I knew I was thrown for a loop. I. I was. I was seeing things. Yeah, the lights were moving, like you said, with rusty vertigo and things like that. I didn't feel right. And I almost didn't get approved to race Talladega. I was under concussion protocol in the underground. I got approved on Saturday before Talladega. I worked my butt off that whole week. Right. And I'm going for the lead on the last lap around Kyle Larson. And he comes up, changes lanes, and I hit the wall. 39 GS in the trial.

[Kenny Wallace]

39. Jesus.

[Kurt Busch]

And back in the infield care center I couldn't walk. Like, I fractured my right foot. I wrecked at Dover. I wrecked at Darlington. There was the Coke 600 here.

[Kenny Wallace]

I.

[Kurt Busch]

It was like a ping pong ball bouncing off cars at the end of stage. Yeah, it was bad, man. I went through a bunch of wrecks. That's what led up to, you know, Pocono and that wreck. I was. I was gone. I was in outer space. I knew it. The doctors knew it, and they said, you can't race.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And it changes things, you know, and the rehab and everything that I'm going through, still, I'm much, much better from where I was a year ago at this time. And I have to thank all the doctors. The Toyota Performance center has helped me a ton with the workouts and the stretching and just the continued effort. But my arthritis and different things swelling up in my body now because I'm working out too much. That's why it became too much. And I said, you know what? I gotta make this decision. And I want Tyler Redick, you know, to make it feel like it's his car, like it's his team, and that'll help us advance quicker. And so it was a tough decision, but it wasn't like the one moment from Pocono. It was a lot of things then. That's why I wanted to tell you this. Long story. Long.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, I know. I need it. I needed every bit of that because I believe it's a decision. You know, when Tyler got in the car and you were an. I mean, I learned a lot from you. Because I grew up in the day where my brother Rusty didn't care for Ryan Newman just being his teammate, and Dale Senior didn't like Mike Skinner being his teammate. And I. I really thought that you caring for Tyler Reddick was really pretty incredible. You showed a lot of love, a lot of support there. And without you telling that story right there, you know, that. That. That gets me to where, you know, what a ride. And you. You went all the way. And so now that. Here we are in Kenny conversation, that leads me to this. I see you wearing that Monster Energy hat. I see that you went and watched Danger Boy. Deegan. He wrapped up a championship. Monster Energy has you everywhere. Without getting too deep, I guess you work for Monster Energy drink. I guess you're still with Michael Jordan and them, and it seems like you're busier right now than you've ever been.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, I mean, being a brand ambassador with Monster, going on my 12th year with them, you know, they have some legacy programs for some of their older riders like Carmichael, Jeremy McGrath, you know, Solberg, one of the rally guys. You know, I'm. I'm one of their first NASCAR guys. I got the first checkered flag for Monster in Kyle Busch's Xfinity car back at Richmond in 2012.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And so, yeah, it's been fun. I mean, it. We're always up to different cross promotions. You know, I was looking to get to an F1 race this year and hang out with our Monster group over there. Lewis Hamilton and different, you know, MotoGP guys like Valentino Rossi, different rally guys like the Solberg family.

[Kenny Wallace]

What a name. Valentino Rossi, right? Sounds like a wine.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, he's Italian. You know, with Brittany Force and hra. You know, with all the different Monster Motorsports programs, I get to go around and talk with some of these legends and hang out. But there's also like the Monster Army. It's the younger kids in the BMX world, snowboarding. There's the different development programs, even like the bull riders and those guys hanging out, talking with them, teaching them the championship mentality, teaching them that this brand can be a lifestyle for you. If you want to be part of this, this is a family. And so the Monster people have been like family to me. Toyota's been incredible and things. At 23:11, I'm basically just another set of eyes, a consultant with the team, helping Bubba, helping Tyler, you know, just verifying things with the crew chiefs, you know, seeing things in the engineering department. I was hanging out in the meetings, going, yeah, that's, you know, I'm calling.

[Kenny Wallace]

People out and I call that D Bull you. So you can debull, you know, when people are. Are saying the wrong stuff because you've been there, done that.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. And it works in all areas, you know, whether it's, you know, I was at a Toyota event with their Supra program and seeing some of the drivers over there and a couple young kids, couple older guys and just talking through some of their issues and struggles. And it's like, all right, let's look at it this way. And so it's been fun to give my perspective back from so many years of racing cars.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Creativity is at the heart of everything you do, and Adobe Creative Cloud helps you take your projects to the next level no matter what you're working on this semester. Build pro level skills and create your best work. With Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere Pro and over 20 other powerful creative apps. Students save over 65% on Adobe Creative Cloud. The go to toolkit for everything from class projects to standout portfolios. Make your ideas shine in and out of the classroom. Visit adobe.com students to save big today.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one boat insurer. We've all made mistakes on the water, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make. Being uninsured. With progressive Boat Insurance, you can choose coverage for most mistakes you or other boaters could make, helping you float carefree all season long. Quote Today Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates number one rating based on boat market share data from Rate filings.com.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, boy, you. And you've got great perspectives. So you've drove for some great race teams, just like all the great race car drivers have. Roush, Penske, Chip Ganassi, as you mentioned, Stewart Haas, third furniture row in there. Now, listen, those are great race teams, but I'm gonna say this. You had a little stint with Phoenix racing, and you're gonna, you know, you win basically Sears Point, you know, and right then, everybody went, okay, look, we knew Kurt was great, but now this puts him on a godly level. You took that Phoenix race car, James Finch. You took that car, which could hardly qualify for a race. Tell me about that moment when you took basically a car that wouldn't even make a race and you're. And basically you win. I mean, tell me about that damn moment.

[Kurt Busch]

That was a magical race. That was a magical, like. Like, it was almost like I was gonna be like, I'm done, guys. I'm out.

[Kenny Wallace]

The crotch chop.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. Yeah. I had a. Had the fallout with Penske. You know, we. We finished at Penske in 2010 and 2011. We finished 11th in points. Yeah, finishing 11th in points with multi million dollar sponsorships, you know, running out of gas or having bad pit stops or tough year. I wasn't in the groove mentally. Like it was. Wasn't where I wanted to be. And, you know, I took a step back, actually. I interviewed with Richard Petty to race at Richard Petty Motorsports. I went to levelcross, North Carolina, and.

[Kenny Wallace]

Got to go to a legendary level cross.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. I got to see the museum. Got to meet King in his office.

[Kenny Wallace]

Ooh.

[Kurt Busch]

And the offer wasn't right. This wasn't the right offer. And I said, no, thank you, sir. And so.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow, you turned the King down because he. He shot you low. He didn't respect you.

[Kurt Busch]

Well, it was a weird. It was a weird sequence. I mean, he was even at Daytona the next year saying, kurt Bush is unsponsorable.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, wow.

[Kurt Busch]

I couldn't get into a banter or an argument with King. Right. That's when Monster Energy called. They're like, hey, we'll sponsor you.

[Kenny Wallace]

What a story.

[Kurt Busch]

Rest is history on the Monster side. But with Finch. Finch was funny. He gave me an offer to race for him. He goes, we'll split the person half. Whatever we get, I'll give you half. I'm like. I said, all right, I'll take that. And we almost won Sonoma. It was the setup. I tried to remember as much of the setup I had won the year prior in the shell car with Penske. I had the setup in my mind. And, yes, I drove the car. I drove the wheels off the car. The rear end was falling out.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Broke.

[Kurt Busch]

And I couldn't pass Boyer for the lead because it was like swapping ends on me. And it was like, man, I had to win. It was so close. And I had to nurse at home to finish third. Tony Stewart got me on the last lap, and Stuart comes up, and he goes, how'd you even finish? The rear ends falling out of the car, literally.

[Kenny Wallace]

We could see it on tv.

[Kurt Busch]

It was big. But, man, if I could have won that and if I could have won with Furniture Row, which we should have. Furniture Row and Barney Visser. It was so awesome. Like, Visser is a. Is a very Christian man. A great Christian family.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And after racing with Finch, which is the opposite end of that spectrum, I'll just leave it there. Those two years helped me work my way up from a D level team, C level, team B level team, and back up to an A level team. Because that's when Gene Haas called The summer of 2013, when I was with Furniture Row.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well, you know, we all go through those situations. We've all had the journey. God knows that I've been through some crazy stuff, but I. I, you know, listen, I. I relate with you. You know, I. I drove for Furniture Row, and. And Barney, you know, he's a Christian, and, you know, he. And then you go with Finch, and he. He's got a drink in his hand, always a bracelet on, and. And you're. You're dealing with two complete different dynamics. And, you know, I can relate that we have to be able to fit in everywhere. And you're dealing with such different people in nascar, and you. You. And then you got, like, the owner, then you got the motorman, then you got the body, man. And you're right, as you said earlier, dealing with these young kids, I can definitely see where you're a big help to monster energy drink. Because driving the Car is the easy part. It's, it's capable, it's keeping. It's. You got to become like human resources. You got to keep people from fighting each other so you can go fast.

[Kurt Busch]

Yep. And that's, that's part of what I didn't understand when I first came into the sport. So back to the Gong Show.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. They didn't teach you that?

[Kurt Busch]

No, I did a couple interviews maybe when I was a Southwest tour racer. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Got into trucks. Here's a quick story. 1996.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

I had won all three divisions at the local short track in Vegas the year 2000. Four years later, I qualified a cup car at Dover, 10th.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's badass.

[Kurt Busch]

I went so fast through all of the different racing ranks.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And now I got Dale Senior, you know, making fun of me. That, that you're with the Middle Finger over in Daytona. You know, it happened that fast those four to five years. I didn't, I wasn't ready for the media, I wasn't ready for sponsors. I wasn't a professional.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're ready to win, though.

[Kurt Busch]

I just wanted to race.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And so that's why that journey was so great for me after the Penske years to build back up. It was like I just started over. Like, hey, can I have you ride Finch? I'll go win with you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And then with Barney, working my way back up. And that's when I started to like. Oh, it is more about the team. It's not just about the driver or winning.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, you think winning. You know, there's an old saying, Harry Gant told me years ago, he says, winning's not everything, it's the only thing. And I will never forget that. And so it is hard to hear that, that you gotta have it all. And I understand what you went through.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, you gotta, you gotta wear all nine hats. Right. Nine, ten hats of all the areas.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Kurt Busch]

It's been fun though. I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it in. I mean, I'm a blue collar kid from Vegas making $18 an hour, which was big money.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Back, back as a teenager. And look at where everything turned out. Now my little nephew is 8 years old. I'll be at Millbridge Raceway tonight and his team and the guys there, it's now a third generation with us.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm going to ask you a question. We're 40 minutes already. We're coming to the very end here. But I started asking this questions to some of the greats and you're one of the greats. You did all this. I rattled off all those incredible stats. I mean, I, I make, you know, I make notes. I mean, you've done it all. You know, there it all is. You've done it all. But then when I talk to you, you hear it, but you right away go back to some of your childhood. Is it. So my question is this, Is there that gap in the middle of your life where you, you almost kind of forget all the greatness you have.

[Kurt Busch]

There? There's the, the ego that helps. I think a lot of drivers make it to a top elite level to be the best of the best. This top 1%.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you're there.

[Kurt Busch]

There's, there's the humility that you learn along the way because like on your stats there, there's 776 starts, but there's only 34 wins. So how many times do you lose?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

You know, there's the tough days, there's the great days. You know, I remember when I was a rookie in cup and I got a top five, me and my buddies would, would have a barn burner party.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

And then, and then like times when you get interviewed after a top five later in your career, the media goes, yeah, just, just another, you know, you know, low level day for, for Kurt Bush and team. It's like, dude, things change once you start accumulating all of them.

[Kenny Wallace]

You hear that, don't you?

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, it's like, no, this is a damn good day. And it's like, they're like, nah, he.

[Kenny Wallace]

Didn'T win while they're eating donuts and getting fat in the media center.

[Kurt Busch]

There's all the emotions all the way through and things you digest as a 22 year old when I first got into cup are very different than when I was a 44 year old finishing up my racing career. And so again, I'm very blessed. And you have to learn all of it. You have to learn. Nobody knows it right off the bat.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

You know, you look at drivers in Formula One like a Max Verstappen. Well, his dad raced in F1. That's how he might have gotten that opportunity. Yeah, there's, there's a good core group of us in NASCAR and an IndyCar that, that were just barely trying to scrape their cars together to get to the go kart track and wanted to work their way up. And I'm a lucky enough kid because there's tens of thousands of kids just like me that didn't get the opportunity. So that's why I'm so thankful that it's all turned out the way it has.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, we've reminded everybody. And if you're at the end of this incredible Kenny conversation with Kurt Busch, he made it to NASCAR on what they call the Gong Show. He got there because he had the most talent. So let's end like this, Kurt. We do this with all the drivers that are great like you. Three or four questions about. About nascar. You can't get yourself in trouble any more than Tony Stewart. Let it all out. If you go back to Tony's interview, I said, no, don't get yourself in trouble. And he didn't. But let's. Let's end like this. So you're a champion. You've done it all. So what you say matters. What is your opinion on NASCAR today, where NASCAR is right now?

[Kurt Busch]

I like where NASCAR is. Yes. It has areas of weaknesses, it has areas of strength. The key thing that I remember the most coming up through was I got to meet Bill France Jr. I got to meet him at the Waldorf Astoria when I was champion in 04. I got to go to his presidential suite, and when the door opened, I had to cut through the smoke with a knife.

[Kenny Wallace]

Best banquet ever. Waldorf. That's the real. That's the real champions place. Damn it. I love that. Yeah. He's smoking that. He's smoking and drinking beer.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. It was so much smoke, I had to cut through their scissors. Where you at, Mr. France?

[Kenny Wallace]

Where you at, President?

[Kurt Busch]

And he said, son, sit down. I got something to tell you. He said, you're a champion now of my sport. Don't go it up.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Yeah. And I like people really talk.

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah. And I liked that iron fist mentality.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Times when I was in trouble with Mike Helton, it was, you got to fix this.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

Now, what I see with nascar, there is the France family, but there's such a board of directors and others and all these categories and all these things going on that it's a committee and it hurts itself sometimes. There still needs to be that one. Go to, like, we're going this direction type of person. That's what I'd like to see with our sport.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I. I really, really like what you said because I'm older than you and, you know, Mike Helton called me up one day and find my ass $10,000. That's another story. And I had to write a check, you know, to nascar. I got my. My butt in trouble. So I. I like what you said because after that, me and Helen became dear friends.

[Kurt Busch]

Yep. You learn from that. And and he wanted to try to give you a lesson. Yeah, right. But one thing I also can add to that is I see a lot of sponsors block other sponsors. It's like I can't hold up. Like when I was with Penske, there was the Shell gas saver card or something. And I got a call from the president after I won saying, hey, you can't do that. It's Sunoco's victory lane. And I went, I don't care. I just want to race with our race team. You guys go sort that out. So there's the times where sponsors don't even jump into our sport because it's already blocked and we can't do that. We can't hurt each other with different turf and different contracts of who owns what. But that's, that's the way it works.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I, I don't like that either. I just dealt with that. My brother Rusty was supposed to be in Vegas with midnight here in a couple weeks. The great race car. And I was excited for Rusty to go out to Vegas. The race coming up with midnight. And word on the street is that can't go out there because Toyota don't want him out there running that forward around the racetrack. And I'm like, that don't even make sense. You know, pick another excuse, you know, because I mean, all the automakes race with each other and as they always taught me, competition is good. So, okay, so the next one is. Yeah, man, I don't know how you're gonna feel about this one because I feel like it's one thing that added to your retirement, but that's my opinion. What is your opinion on this, this new next gen car?

[Kurt Busch]

Yeah, it's a, it's got its issues and there's been changes made since my accident, since Bowman's. I think Noah Gregson was held out a race or two. You know, it's rigid, it is very stiff and it's built to protect a guy like Priest that wrecked at Daytona.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Kurt Busch]

Wasn't that nasty? The car's built to withstand the 200 mile per hour Daytona Talladega. Big, big wrecks and all the middle sized wrecks, all the smaller bump drafting even is more rigid in this car. That's where we've got to continue to soften it up at certain tracks. And they did that with the rear clip. They've done that with different headrests and inserts. I mean, I exaggerated my wreck because I leaned forward knowing when I was going to back in. But it's like primal Fear if something's coming from behind, you're like, oh man, don't hit me. So my head was away from the headrest and so when I hit, I exaggerated everything. And I don't even remember the car hitting with the right front, so. Because I was in outer space. Yeah, but it needs its continued development. I think we've seen a lot of cars hit this year and the rear gets crumpled up in a better manner. Let's just keep working on it. Let's just keep committed to it. But the sled tests and the data still got to be right. You can't fabricate that stuff. It's got to be real.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right. I agree. So that car is so rigid that everything is within a thousands. Now you used to be where you know, hey, it's within a 16th and now we're down to oh, 20. Just craziness. So what is your opinion on tech inspection now? Now we're, now we're lasers. Lasers. What, what is your opinion on tech inspection?

[Kurt Busch]

Well, I mean it's, it's like it was an IndyCar when I raced there almost a decade ago now. You know, car goes across the grid there, you know, everything gets scanned and lasered. It shows you where you're in the red. Shows you where you're in the green. I like it. I just wish it was transparent that all teams could see where everybody was. Right now NASCAR still has all of that and maybe we need a third party independent set of officials. You know, like the referees in the NFL. Are they employed by the teams? No. Are they employed by the NFL?

[Kenny Wallace]

Never thought about that.

[Kurt Busch]

A third party set of officials. And that's something where that might help with the integrity of things and keeping things a bit more on a transparent level.

[Kenny Wallace]

Last one, we are seeing record setting fines. You know Rick Hendrick who just won 300 races, of course he has four cars, but he, you know, a total of $400,000 in fines. Do you think these fines are okay? They warranted. What is your opinion? And this is the last question. The big fines, I'm fine with it.

[Kurt Busch]

I mean, hey, where does the money go? Should go into the point fund money, Right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Right. I think it goes to NASCAR foundation. But I like what you're saying.

[Kurt Busch]

No, you still gotta the fines and the money points. I mean, heck, they took Denny Hamlin's win away last summer at one of the Pocono races. Right, Right. Because of, of a manipulation to the front area where changing the way the rap was.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Kurt Busch]

I mean everything is so close. But when you Mess up and you're out of that box. Yeah, you got to get, get your hand slapped. And I still like points versus the money. I think people are more upset about points because if you are taking away a race full of points and you finish three spots worse at the end of the year in the point fund money, that's a bigger hit than a hundred thousand dollars.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. And I agree with that because a lot of the contracts are wrote in there where the teams will receive hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe even a million dollar bonus from their sponsor. Well, Kurt Busch, look at you, buddy. You look great. I love your shirt. And I got this from my dad.

[Kurt Busch]

He went to the race of gentlemen and it's out on the beach in Wildwood, New Jersey. Like Ray Evernham and him went drag racing up and down the beach.

[Kenny Wallace]

That is too awesome. And to watch your mom and dad be part of your and your brother Kyle watching you guys race your whole life, I've really enjoyed how they've went about it. They've been at these races, but they stay in the, you know, in the back and. But your mom and dad are wonderful people. And Kurt, listen, from the bottom of my heart, I mean this. Thank you so much for carving a little time out for Kenny Conversation.

[Kurt Busch]

Absolutely, Kenny. Always for a racer. We come from a racing family and we're always here to help each other in the NASCAR world, my friend. I appreciate you having me on, man. Thank you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Thank you. Well, listen everybody, we are in podcast form. Remember, on your way to work you can listen to us. And then on the way home, we are at itunes and Spotify. Until the next Kenny Conversation. We'll see you next time. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Creativity is at the heart of everything you do and Adobe Creative Cloud helps you take your projects to the next level. No matter what you're working on this semester, build pro level skills and create your best work. With Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere Pro and over 20 other powerful creative apps. Students save over 65% on Adobe Creative Cloud. The go to toolkit for everything from class projects to standout portfolios. Make your ideas shine in and out of the classroom. Visit adobe.com students to save big today.

[Kenny Wallace]

There are some things in life that just shouldn't be forgotten, like bringing your keys when you leave the house, setting your fantasy line, and most importantly, having Hidden Valley Ranch to watch the game.

[Kurt Busch]

Especially if wings are on the menu. Those creamy, zesty, cool ranch flavors take each spicy, savory bite to an unforgettable level. Hidden Valley Ranch. Only serious about flavor.