Herm & Schrader Podcast Summary

Episode: Mark Martin: Sharing Unfiltered Opinions About The State of NASCAR
Released: June 19, 2025
Hosts: Kenny Wallace and Mark Martin
Guest: Mark Martin, NASCAR Hall of Famer

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Herm & Schrader, host Kenny Wallace engages in an in-depth conversation with NASCAR Hall of Famer Mark Martin. The discussion delves into the current state of NASCAR, exploring fan sentiments, the impact of media deals, the evolution of the sport, and the challenges it faces in retaining its legacy while adapting to modern trends.

NASCAR’s International Ventures and Fan Backlash

The episode opens with Kenny addressing the controversial decision by NASCAR to hold a race in Mexico City. Investors and longtime fans expressed dissatisfaction with this move, preferring traditional American tracks like Road America or Richmond.

• Kenny Wallace [04:02]: "NASCAR went to Mexico City, Mexico, and boy, it really made a lot of the fans mad."

• Mark Martin [04:02]: "From a fan standpoint, I had no problem with it... I saw a lot of enthusiasm around it."

Mark acknowledges the logistical challenges, such as the haulers needing to leave Michigan unexpectedly due to weather concerns. However, he emphasizes the importance of expanding the sport's international footprint to grow its audience.

Impact of Media Deals and Financial Challenges

A significant portion of the discussion centers around NASCAR's lucrative but transformative TV deals. Mark attributes the sport's decline post-2008 financial crisis to a combination of economic hardships, loss of iconic drivers, and shifts in media consumption.

• Ben Kennedy [11:44]: "The financial crisis of ‘08 hit our blue-collar fan base hard, leading to a slow downward decline."

• Mark Martin [27:54]: "I think the TV deal that was signed sold us out. Decisions started being made based on TV needs rather than the sport’s integrity."

Mark criticizes the prioritization of TV ratings over the authentic racing experience, highlighting how practices are now influenced by television schedules rather than sporting merit.

Loss of Star Drivers and Its Consequences

Kenny and Mark reflect nostalgically on NASCAR's golden era, lamenting the departure of beloved drivers like Rusty Wallace, Tony Stewart, and Jeff Gordon. They argue that the simultaneous retirements created a void that affected fan engagement and the sport's marketability.

• Kenny Wallace [14:51]: "We lost some of our heroes all at once, and that wasn't good for our sport."

• Mark Martin [14:51]: "There hasn't been enough superhero-like rivalry, stopping the next generation from emerging as big icons."

The hosts emphasize that while new talents are emerging, the lack of larger-than-life personalities hinders NASCAR's ability to captivate broader audiences.

Evolution of NASCAR’s Points System and Playoffs

A heated segment discusses the shift from the traditional 36-race points system to the current playoff format. The conversation references a poll conducted by Mark, revealing that a majority of fans prefer reverting to the old system to reward consistency over seasonal performance.

• Mark Martin [34:26]: "The fans want someone with a voice to stand up and say what they think. I am the race fans' voice."

• Richard Petty’s Commentary [34:26]: "A guy 32nd into points halfway through the year won the Mexico race and is now in the playoffs."

Mark argues that the playoff system, while designed to increase drama, often undermines the achievements of consistent drivers and prioritizes short-term results over long-term excellence.

Technological Advancements and Changing Fan Engagement

The hosts explore how digital platforms and technology have transformed how fans consume NASCAR, impacting TV ratings and in-person attendance.

• Kenny Wallace [39:33]: "The cell phone has changed the world more than we will ever recognize."

• Mark Martin [41:11]: "Fans can follow the race on apps and miss parts of it on TV, complicating traditional viewership metrics."

They discuss the decline of dedicated channels like Speed TV, which once provided comprehensive coverage and maintained fan engagement throughout the week. The shift to streaming services like Amazon Prime poses challenges for older fans who prefer traditional TV.

NASCAR’s Adaptation and Future Prospects

Despite the criticisms, both hosts acknowledge positive developments, such as Stellantis (parent company of Ram) re-entering NASCAR, signaling confidence in the sport's future.

• Mark Martin [77:09]: "I applaud Stellantis coming back—it’s fantastic for teams, fans, and the sport."

They highlight the resilience of NASCAR, noting that while it faces challenges, the sport continues to sustain and even grow in certain aspects. Mark remains optimistic about the return of established manufacturers bolstering NASCAR’s appeal.

Personal Reflections and Mutual Support

Towards the end of the episode, Kenny and Mark share personal anecdotes, reflecting on their careers and the mental toll of competitive racing. They express gratitude for each other's support and emphasize the importance of camaraderie within the NASCAR community.

• Kenny Wallace [70:00]: "Mark, you have helped me a lot, and I've helped Mark. We need to be friends with people."

• Mark Martin [70:14]: "We all make mistakes... You have to be proud of what you accomplished."

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with a balanced acknowledgment of NASCAR's current standing, recognizing both its enduring popularity and the areas needing improvement. Kenny and Mark reaffirm their love for the sport and its fans, despite the ongoing debates and changes.

• Mark Martin [89:52]: "NASCAR is healthy. It is sustaining or growing."

• Kenny Wallace [91:53]: "Mark, thank you so much."

Notable Quotes

• Mark Martin [04:02]: "From a fan standpoint, I had no problem with [Mexico City]. I have no problem with going to Canada."

• Ben Kennedy [11:44]: "The financial crisis of ‘08 hit our blue-collar fan base hard, leading to a slow downward decline."

• Kenny Wallace [14:51]: "We lost some of our heroes all at once, and that wasn't good for our sport."

• Mark Martin [34:26]: "I am the race fans' voice and I'm going to say something a little inflammatory."

• Kenny Wallace [39:33]: "The cell phone has changed the world more than we will ever recognize."

Conclusion

This episode of Herm & Schrader offers a candid and insightful examination of NASCAR's evolution, balancing nostalgia for the sport's past with constructive critiques of its present trajectory. Mark Martin's unfiltered opinions, combined with Kenny Wallace's complementary perspectives, provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing NASCAR today.