← Herm & Schrader
Herm & Schrader
Mark Martin: Sharing Unfiltered Opinions About The State of NASCAR
01:27:27
The entire NASCAR world will be talking about the latest Kenny Conversation with Mark Martin
Loading summary
Transcript131 lines
- [00:01]
Kenny Wallace
Be sure to catch Chumba Casino at Atlanta motor speedway on June 28 as a major associate on the number 23 Chumba Casino Toyota Camry Already signed up to Chumba. You can get free coins simply by logging in every day, anytime, anywhere. Wow. I Love Atlanta on June 28th. That racetrack has some of the most exciting finishes in NASCAR to this day. Chumba Casino, proud partner of 23xi Racing, offers over 200 games including slots, blackjack, roulette, bingo and scratch cards. But did you know they also have social live casino with live presenter experiences for games like live blackjack and roulette. No matter what you choose, Chumba Casino is always fun and always free to play. Sign up to Chumba Casino and receive your free welcome offer. Play for fun. Play for free today@chumbacasino.com free welcome bonus at sign up 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweets coins. Follow Chumba Casino on social or log in every day for free daily coins. No purchase necessary. VGW group void where prohibited by law. See TNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino.
- [01:30]
Huggies Commercial
The new Huggies Snug n Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry. How soft are we talking? Unbelievably soft? Irresistibly soft? Doesn't your baby deserve a diaper that's oh so gentle on their tushy? Huggies Snug n Dry helps keep them comfy, cozy and protected. Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection. More parents choose the new Huggy Snug n Dry softness versus Premium Diaper Huggies. We got you, baby.
- [01:59]
Kenny Wallace
Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything and anything you need to fix your everyday vehicle up or even your hot rod. Okay, deep breath everybody. You are looking at one of the greatest race car drivers of all time. And I don't. Mark, I don't use the word great lightly. Just a little reminder. Five time Iraq champion, ASA champion, 40 cup wins, 49 Xfinity wins, ran 20 truck races and won seven of them. NASCAR hall of Famer, the great Mark Martin. Mark, how you doing?
- [02:53]
Mark Martin
Living the dream, Kenny. Good to be on with you.
- [02:56]
Kenny Wallace
Thank you, Mark. And for everybody that wants a really in depth conversation of Mark Martin, we've already done a Kenny conversation with Mark. So go right here on YouTube and you can find that incredible interview where we go in depth with the man you're looking at right now. Okay, Mark, you and I are dear friends. That is our disclaimer. I've known you since I've been a kid and we have a good time on social media and we've got a hot topic right now. Let's start like this. NASCAR went to Mexico City, Mexico, and boy, it really made a lot of the fans mad. They did not like it. And our social media lit up. Richard Petty came out and said some things, and we're here to discuss it. What, what is your opinion, Mark, on NASCAR going to Mexico City, Mexico?
- [04:03]
Mark Martin
I'm a fan, so I didn't have to go to Mexico. I thought it was a great race track, and I thought it was a great race. And there seemed to be a lot of enthusiasm around it. You know, I saw some complaining. I'm not sure I would have wanted to go to Mexico. I know that there were certain things that, you know, logistics that weren't great. You know, one of the things was that the haulers had to leave Michigan rain or shine, Sunday night for, you know, I mean, that could have been a major problem if they had had rain Sunday. So, you know, there's plenty of things that you could question about all of that, but from a fan standpoint, I had no problem with it. You know, I have no problem with going to Canada. I don't really know why we want to go overseas, but that's not my business. You know, I did go over. I don't know if you went over to Japan to race, but I did go over one year. Rusty went multiple years. I don't know about that, you know, but. But that's not my business as a race fan. And that's all I'm trying to do is represent race fans. Today I saw a great race. I didn't see any. Any problem with it from my standpoint.
- [05:32]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, we're going to break all this down, and I want to interrupt this conversation one more time to let everybody know Mark Martin, the NASCAR hall of Famer, and myself were having fun today. We're playing devil's advocate. Mark has become the voice of our older generation. They love Mark for his brash opinions. He doesn't care, just like I don't care. And, and Mark, we've seen Richard Petty come out and we're going to get to his comments here in a little bit. So just want to make sure everybody understands that we're having fun today. This is not a. A and moaning session. This is a nice little debate about where we're at in NASCAR and why. Why do the older NASCAR fans Why are they so upset? Okay, Mark, let's get back to Mexico City. Mexico. I see our older generation. They're like, why did we go to Mexico City? Why didn't we go up to the road course, race there? Up above, you know, what was that? Mid America up there, up, up above. N. Milwaukee. Road America. Excuse me. Why did we not go back to Road America? It was standing room only. The people were in the grass. Wisconsin loves racing. Why didn't we go back to Richmond? So the, the fans rally cry is we should have went back to Road America where it was standing room only. Now, I want to take the first dib here because I don't want to lay everything on you. Listening to Ben Kennedy. It seems like NASCAR's adamant, Mark, about this global footprint that Ben Kennedy keeps talking about. It's like they feel like they're as good as they can be in America and they, they want to start this global footprint so much to where they. They took Steve Phelps and put him for international seas operation. And now Steve o' Donnell is the NASCAR president. So with Steve Phelps being in charge of overseas, my simple question to you, Mark, is, is NASCAR alienating some tracks that have deserving dates in America, like Road America?
- [08:02]
Mark Martin
So this is something that I, you know, can't really speak on because I'm not inside the internals to understand, you know, how going international could impact our sport in a positive way. They have. They're privy to that. And whether they're right or not or whether their dad is right or not, I can tell you, I can understand going to Mexico and I understand why fans would rather that have been Road America. I get it, okay? But, you know, they could possibly expand their audience, you know, in Mexico by, you know, giving them a race and getting people fired up. There was a lot of fan enthusiasm at that race. So I understand from that standpoint. But one of the things that you said was, and I've said this all along, what's wrong with. What's wrong with being the size we are? What's wrong with. What's wrong with our sport? You know what. What was wrong with our sport? Why do we have to sell out to big money? I mean, we all made it in the 80s when Rusty and I went NASCAR racing. There wasn't much money in the sport, and we got rides and we drove cars. You know, why do we have to sell our soul 100% and change our product 100%? That's the question. And a lot of old people believe that. But you know what? I'M followed by a lot of young people that I'm shocked if they got to see me race. If they got to see me race. They were little kids, if they even did. There are a lot of people that follow me that, you know, weren't race fans in the 90s or 80s. And, you know, some of them follow me because they like my content and have respect. I also, another point I'd like to make is why do people love the races on YouTube from the 90s? Why? They're not as exciting as today's racing, but. But yet they say they are. Why? Because they're different. That's why.
- [10:35]
Kenny Wallace
You know, I want to say this. The young fans love you because you're brash. You like Gucci mane, you're hip hop, you're a badass. There's three things right there. You, you are brash. I mean, you're like a young Rusty Wallace. Rusty was very outspoken. You've went opposite. You went focus on that race car to now you're outspoken. Rusty's went quiet because Rusty owns nine dealerships. He doesn't want to get in trouble. He doesn't want to hurt any of his sales at his dealerships. I get it. I get it. Let's do this. Everybody. Early in the show here, we're not nine minutes in and, and Mark and everybody, we had NASCAR owner Ben Kenny right here on Kenny Conversation. And we flat asked, you know, NASCAR owner Ben Kennedy. I said, ben, NASCAR fell mightily. Why did it fall? And I want everybody to listen to what Ben Kennedy had to say right here.
- [11:44]
Ben Kennedy
I would attribute it to a couple of different things. You know, one is the financial crisis of, of 08. Right. If you think about a lot of our fans, a lot of our fans travel to the racetrack on the weekend. They bring their friends and their family. They would fly sometimes some of them would camp in an rv. You know, it's not just the cost of buying the ticket. It's the cost of actually traveling and going to a race. And, you know, it, it wasn't inexpensive for a lot of people, you know, back in the day. So I would say that along with a lot of our fans being true blue collar workers. And Jim, you know, has said this before. If you think about our core fan base, you know, it, it, it is and has been and, and probably will continue to be a lot of our blue collar fans. And I think they were hit particularly hard during the financial crisis of 08. And we started kind of this, this slow downward decline after that. And we talked about some of these other things. You had a lot of big name drivers that retired year after year and you saw ratings and viewership like clear metrics, fan attendance, relevance. You know, everything that we were looking at was continuing to decline. And you could attribute it to a deal. Junior not being in the car for that weekend, or Jeff Gordon and not being in the car for that weekend. So I think that was a part of it. And then I would say the other component is just. And this kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier around the productions building and content is. In 2006, our biggest competitors were other sports leagues, right? It was the NFL and NBA and NHL. And in a lot of ways they, they still are all of our competitors today, but our competitors are also just frankly, anyone that is making content. You know, people watching YouTube videos, people watching Netflix, people watching, you know, videos or, or pictures on Instagram or X. You know, content is everywhere today. And you know, we're, we're competing against that for our fans attention, for people's attention, for potential partners attention. And it's a completely different world from where we were almost two decades ago. So I think there's a handful of things. Those are the three biggest that, that come to my mind.
- [13:57]
Kenny Wallace
Mark. You know, Ben said it was a perfect storm. You know, we had the economy. And then one thing he said that, that I did agree with. I do got to go with it now, and I do want to give him an attaboy. You know, NASCAR made some mistakes and I wrote it down here. I don't think I've ever seen a sport lose all their heroes at one time. You know, you, Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace, Tony Stewart, Bobby Lamani, Jeff Burton, Dale Jr. Jeff Gordon, Kenny Schrader. I mean, Mark, listen to these drivers that all retired in a very close span. I don't, I don't think that's ever happened. Any sport, they lose one or two players, but that was not good for our sport. That's my opinion. What do you think?
- [14:51]
Mark Martin
Oh, I agree 100%. And I remember the anxiety early on when Rusty and I got to nascar. We were talking about David Pearson and Richard Petty and Kale, Yarborough and Benny Parsons, Bobby Allison and all the, you know, all these greats. And they were timing out also, you know, Richard, all these guys, Richard the King. And there was, there was a lot of anxiety about that. Of course, we did have Dale, you know, Dale Earnhardt and, and Dale was good. Because any driver that rose up, there was high rivalry. Like people either loved Earnhardt or hated him, and they would get on board. You know, the ones that didn't like Earnhardt would get on board with anybody that could challenge him. So, you know, we continued right on, even though we lost the superheroes of the sport, the guys that came before us. But I agree 100%, it doesn't seem like there's been enough super high rivalry, super. You know, first of all, you had to water down the personalities, and that hasn't helped. I truly believe that the drivers today are not nearly as vanilla as they appear to be. And I'll guarantee you, Jimmie Johnson was not. In fact, Jimmy Johnson is one hell of a character, but he never, never showed that because of the commercialism of the sport. And I think that that has stopped these next generation as emerging as big superheroes. I watched the race Sunday, and I'm looking at those guys out there, and they're driving their asses off. It's incredible, you know, and, And. But yet so many people don't. They don't realize that, you know, and they're just. There's just not enough superheroes.
- [17:08]
Kenny Wallace
I want to give my take on what you just said. And, you know, sometimes when, you know, you take a chance at saying it, know, be saying, I don't know if I should let people know this. You know what I mean? Jeff Gordon, he wants his driver's vanilla, and. And that's what I want everybody to know. You know, Jeff wants robotic. He wants corporate drivers. He doesn't want anybody, you know, bucking the system, you know, and we know that Rick Hendrick, Mr. H. And you drove for him. And, And I'm not going to put any words in your mouth, but did you see any of that? I mean, by the time you got to Mr. H driving at Kellogg number five, you were a badass. And they probably weren't going to tell you anything. But did you see any of that, that Mr. H was buttoned up?
- [17:59]
Mark Martin
No, but I came in under a really unique situation, much different than Jimmy came in. You know, Rick really, really wanted me to come drive there, and I really didn't want to run full time, so I turned him down. You know, twice I turned him down before finally agreeing to do it one time. If he'd give me two more years at 24 races, I would. I would do one season just because I wanted to try to win one more time and experience that. So when I came in, like they weren't going, you know, there was zero pressure on me to be anything different than who I was. And. But but, yeah, you know, Jimmy came in, he was a rookie, you know, I mean, he would. He would want to conform. And that's one of the problems that we have, is there may not always be pressure to conform. It may be that that's what you think people want or expect from you, therefore, you do it. So I'm not sure that they're always, you know, I'm not sure they're always stifled down. I think that they think that that's what's expected of them in some cases. And so we. That's what they. What they are.
- [19:25]
Kenny Wallace
I see right now something playing out. You know, Dale Jr. Is trying to, you know, say, hey, Carson Hosovar, you're like my dad. You're like Dale Senior. You remind me of my dad. You know, Dale Jr. I see him trying to help the sport by creating a character. He's trying to create Carson Hosavar. But, you know, there's difficulty in doing that. I mean, what is your opinion? I want to go back and forth. I don't want it all to be you. I don't want this much pressure on you. What do you think of Dale Jr. You know, there's no doubt in my mind that you, Mark Martin, made Joey Logano. You bragged on him. You told everybody Joey Logano is the man, and you were right. And now here's Dale Jr saying, Look at Carson Osvar. He reminds me of his dad. What do you think of Dale Jr. Trying to create that driver that we're looking for?
- [20:27]
Mark Martin
Dale Jr. Is the greatest asset stock car racing has probably ever had in history. Right now, what he's doing for the sport is immeasurable. And he. I'm going to tell you something. I. I have an idea of how hard he works at it. This stuff isn't coming easy. Dale Jr. Is working his guts out to make stock car racing better and make it great. So kudos to Junior. As far as host of our goes, he's right. I mean, we need Jose Bar to continue being a rocket ship, and we need him to bounce off of people and stuff. You know, we need Chastain to get back a little bit more on the chip. Why? Because we need some. We need some of that villain, some of that people love, you know, like they did with Earnhardt. They either love your style and love what you do and condone every mistake that you make, or they hate you. And that's good. You know, that's good if they hate you because that puts enthusiasm, gets people's blood pumping.
- [21:47]
Kenny Wallace
Hey, it's Dale Jr. Did you know that we've got brand new merch from our star stripes and beers collection available now. We've got tanks, tees, beach towels and more. Just in time for summer. Check it all out at shop.dirtymomedia.com what.
- [22:02]
Huggies Commercial
If you could use your home equity to pay off your debt without monthly payments so you could focus on reaching your other financial goals? With a home equity investment from HomeTap, you can get access to your home equity in cash, get closer to financial freedom and get more out of life. Learn more and see if you pre qualify for an investment@hometap.com Subject to eligibility, terms and conditions apply. Get access to your home equity in cash. Visit hometap.com to apply in minutes. That's hometap.com this episode is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. It's fun having a baby that loves to move, but it can be challenging to find a diaper that can keep up them. Huggies Little Movers is designed to move with your baby. With either the double grip strips or the new HugFit 360 degree waistband. You can be confident relying on Huggies little movers for your active little ones. Huggies Little Movers made with double grip strips or the new HugFit 360 degree waistband so your little double can keep moving like you Huggies. We got you, baby.
- [23:05]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, now my opinion, the one thing that made and this is dedicated to everybody out there that wants to complain. We're having fun with this. Everybody. I'm smiling. Mark's smiling. This is dedicated to our old people. And I say old people with a lot of love. It's just a shortcut. It means our old generation. So please don't take this. We tease on social media. This is dedicated to the old people, our generation. So in our generation, we had Jimmy Spencer. You mess with the bull, you get the horn. He was an animal. You had Rusty Wallace cussing all the time, getting fined by nascar. Rusty Wallace got that potty mouth and then he'd kick your ass and win on the racetrack. Then you, you know, you had Mark Martin, you know, who was respected by the working people because Mark would say, you're catching me. You've caught me. You, you came from a straightaway back. You caught me. I'm gonna pull over and let you go because we're running a 500 mile race here. So I saw this, you know, bag of bolts and nuts. You had Spencer going nuts. Rusty cussing earn our saying, I'm knocked the hell out of You Mark's saying, I'm gonna pull over because I don't want none of this. And then the old fans, they loved you because you represented. I drove my ass off all day long, you know, and you showed humility. We are. We don't have those bad boys nowadays. And so I just want to let everybody know, you know, I like what you had to say, and I want to give examples, so. I agree with that, Mark. All right. Something that I want to talk about that does shock me a little bit. We lost the great dale Senior in 2001. Believe that's exactly right. But. But the fans were relying on Dale Jr. To take over his daddy's spot.
- [25:18]
Mark Martin
It.
- [25:18]
Kenny Wallace
It lasted to 2006. It was. It was Kenny Schrader. And then I verified it. 2006 was the peak. You would have thought it would have died right away, but it went to 2006. And then NASCAR took a nosedive, some 70%. We saw the fans leave the sport. It flocked. Flocked away that very moment. Mark, we're going to be precise right here. This is a big part of the Kenny conversation today. 2006 was the last big moment of nascar in your mind. I'm not asking you exactly, but what do you remember happened? I mean, I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you a starter push. I remember those people not liking that car with that damn that wing on the back. What do you think happened when NASCAR after 2006 started nose diving?
- [26:20]
Mark Martin
Yeah, I think that the drivers bashing the car didn't help. And this is one time when I think that nascar, you know, I don't think NASCAR should. I don't think there should be a narrative. I don't think that something should be put out. And this is what you follow. But I don't think we did ourselves any favor. NASCAR did, you know, in general, give any favors with bashing the car so bad. You know, racing's Racing. It was. Was not a great race car, but over a period of time, by 2009, it was a great race car. And by 2010, the wing was gone, and it was an incredible race car. And by 2012, it was unbelievably fast, the fastest thing, you know, that we'd ever seen. So the race car didn't help things. This is just my opinion. I think the TV deal that was signed, sold, sold us out. And it took time for that to catch up. That's where the chase came in. That's where you couldn't predict that. Always before we got that huge TV money. See, I was told that was going to be billions. It was going to be so much more money once we got that TV deal. Oh one, you know, well, I didn't know I was making damn good money. You know what, I didn't notice I got more money. I mean, I'm sure I made more money, but it was, it was not that much.
- [27:55]
Kenny Wallace
And I don't change you.
- [27:56]
Mark Martin
It didn't change me, it didn't change my team, it didn't change anything. Except now when it rained during practice, they just call practice off because it wasn't tell they couldn't televise it. And I was like, you could always predict everything in NASCAR prior to the big money TV deal. After the big money TV deal, it just threw me for a loop. All these decisions were being made that were different than it ever been before. And it clued me in to, oh, so TV's the boss. Like we'd never just not had practice and then just went into a race, but now we do because we can't televise the practice. It's kind of weird and I will give it, you know, the economy crashing really hurt too in 08. So, you know, it was a multitude of different things that all came together.
- [29:02]
Kenny Wallace
Cal Petty says it right. If, if, if you want to know how NASCAR is doing, follow the stock market because those big companies, you know, and Mark, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I went and got my own sponsors, but we needed six and $10 million and more. You know, it was $20 million a year to run these teams. So it ain't like we're, you know, playing around here. Sometimes you got to do things you don't want to do.
- [29:29]
Mark Martin
Right.
- [29:30]
Kenny Wallace
I want to go back to you talking about TV having the power now. No doubt. See, everybody knows I've been in TV for 15 years. For the people that don't know, I worked for Fox Sports out of la, the main channel. And you know, we started out with speed tv and boy, Mark, that hurt right there getting rid of a dedicated TV channel because I want to go to something you said when we had speed, that's where all the practice sessions were. Do you think it hurts that we lost dedicated, dedicated speed tv. Do you think it hurt us when we lost speed?
- [30:16]
Mark Martin
Yes, I think it did. You know, that was, I think it was an important part of our sport. You know, we had, we had rabid fans at, you know, up until this point we had fans that would watch practice, would watch the pre race show, would watch the show till it went off after the race. Then during the week, you had speed, you know, channel all during the week, you know, you could. Every night, you know, you would have RPM tonight.
- [30:44]
Kenny Wallace
He kept it going, kept it going.
- [30:46]
Mark Martin
So the momentum continued all week after a race. And back then, winning a race was different. Big, big, big now because it put you into the playoffs, and that's a whole different story. But it's a different big. Back then you were just a bad. If you want to race now, you're not as bad of a. Because if you were running 20th and had nothing to lose, you could throw a Hail Mary and win a race. When you were running 20th back then, you couldn't throw a Hail Mary because you couldn't afford to finish 35th because you were trying to stay on the playing money. So the theory of the playoff system and the winning, you're in and all that is sound. I get it. Also, I think people are tired of it. You know, they don't. It changed things so much, but it was built on a sound theory, you know. But I think you're right. I think this. You won a race. There was big stories all week. Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night, following right up to the race weekend. That was. That was important.
- [32:05]
Kenny Wallace
We're talking about TV having control over nascar. You bring up a good point. I know for a fact that TD is the one that said, let's run at the LA Coliseum. No doubt. They. That was. That was fox. I know that TV wanted that dirt on Bristol. I know that. So that is my opinion. Like I said, everybody, I don't want to put everything on Mark's shoulders. I gotta have an opinion, too, for this to work. And when Mark says something, I try to bring the receipts. So there's that. Okay, this is a big one and I'm going to go with it because you just brought it up. You took a poll about two weeks ago and you said this poll was very important to you and you put it on X and you said, do you want to see NASCAR go back to 36 points? Races we race all year long and drivers get rewarded with consistency. Like you said, you can't win every race. And sometimes, sometimes you might run 8th, sometimes you might run 15th, but you had to finish the race nowadays. And here's where I'm going to go. I'm going to give you an example. Richard Petty come out today on his show. Richard Petty come out and said, I don't like a guy being 32nd in the points and he wins the Mexico race and now he's in the playoffs. And Richard Petty went so strong he said road course and ain't nascar. You know, Richard's provocative. And Richard said I don't like a guy 32nd into points halfway through the year went in a road course race and he's in, he's in the playoffs. And I, and I, because road course and ain't, you know, he's old school. You know, Richard's the guy that said he didn't like women in nascar. And you know, that's just an example. You know what I mean? So your poll was overwhelmingly your fan base wanted the old points back. Just talk about what Richard said and your thought it's time to bring back all 36 races.
- [34:26]
Mark Martin
So this is not my heel to stand on or to die on, it's the fans. I truly believe people discount any kind of poll, okay? I desperately wanted that poll to be taken by all race fans, not my race fans, not old people. I'm not followed by all old people. Okay? I wanted that to, and I'll tell you right now, all I wanted is to know what the fans want. And I know your question is, well, does it matter? Are we going to get anywhere? No, it doesn't matter. But the fans want someone with a voice to stand up and say what they think. So I am the race fans voice and I'm going to say something a little inflammatory. Now I will shut the heck up. That's why I put the poll out. If the poll came in different, I'd never say another word. But the poll told me that they want me to stand up for them and voice their opinion. And I'll tell you something, NASCAR is not going to put that poll out.
- [35:45]
Kenny Wallace
Right.
- [35:46]
Mark Martin
They don't want the answer because they don't want the fans to know that it's not up to the fans, it's up to the TV and the people. That's why I don't like committees. The people on the committee are all beholding to the almighty dollar. And so there's no way they're going to go back to 36 races because they think that that won't please the TV networks. So you've got people, race car drivers, team owners, journalists and all these people that don't want that poll to really come out because it contradicts the What? The money. And listen, the money's important. The sponsors are smaller than they used to be. The TV money is important. But I have always contended, just like I said, I never noticed any more money that I got. You know, these teams should have never started spending so much money in the first place, is what I say. If you took money away from them, would they go away? No. They would cry and moan and cut. You know, and every race team, all 36 teams now, you know, probably have. I'm just guessing. I'm not in the pits. Probably have 10 sets of stickers in the pits. Dude, when I beg to drive Roger Hamby's car back in 1983, and he didn't have one set of stickers all weekend, and you drove that car and you raced and you performed better than the equipment, and then after you did that for a while, like Sterling Marlin did, then you got a chance at a better car. And I just. I don't want everything to go back like that. But I'm just saying I don't think the integrity of our sport's important to me. I feel like what I accomplished in my career is being diminished by gimmicks.
- [38:03]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, deep breath, everybody. That's what we wanted right there. And Mark's got to take a drink of water. And I'm going to ask everybody that's watching this, because I can hear you. I can see y' all right now. You're like this right now. Everybody take a deep breath. I'm gonna say something that Darrell Waltrip said. I got it in my notes. Mark, I was preparing for you when you said yes. When Mark Martin said yes, Herman, let's do it. I started preparing. Daryl Waltrip said this years ago. Just because I complained does not mean I don't love nascar. What we're finding is the people that love nascar, they're the ones complaining. And I do want to let everybody. I know that. I know that. And, Mark, you just said that you put your life and soul into NASCAR and you feel like it's being diminished by. And I'm. Now I'm going to put words in your mouth. Basically, drivers are buying rides. When you and Schrader. Schrader drove for Juni Dunleavy and then got hired by Mark, by. By Hendrick. You guys drove for lesser teams, ran good. Then they said, okay, now we let you drive the big car. Okay. Hell, I got a headache.
- [39:21]
Mark Martin
And, you know, Kenny, we don't have to agree on. We don't have to agree. We're. We're great friends, and you have different perspectives than I, so. Well, you know, we might not always agree. That doesn't mean we're not best friends.
- [39:34]
Kenny Wallace
No. And I do want to put this out and I haven't told a lot of people this. There's no doubt in my mind that our sport is not as good as it used to be. There it is not. However, there has been the biggest societal shift in, in motorsports history and the world and, and I can go on and on, but this, this right here, that cell phone has changed the world more than we will ever recognize. I don't care where I go. Could be. I was up at Twister Tavern eating lunch yesterday and I saw some 70 year old ladies. They're beautiful. And all of them were on their phones. They weren't talking to each other.
- [40:19]
Mark Martin
I know. You know, Kenny, and I've said that too. People have asked me 15 years ago, why was the client of NASCAR and I would hold up my phone. It's this more than anything. And here's just a perfect example. I'm a huge fan, right? But I can, every second to second, if I'm doing something, I've got Jeff Gluck and Bob Hykras and, you know, all these great tweets of knowing everything that can go on. Or I can just go to the app and I can watch the race, follow the race, or I can go to the NASCAR app and see lap by lap, you know, so if I miss it on tv, I don't miss the race. So TV ratings are going to be more of a challenge than ever before. A lot of that has to do with that, that phone.
- [41:11]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, we got a lot to talk about, everybody, but let's stop right there because that's something that really hit me like a ton of bricks. And I do it. Kenny Schrader and myself, we're busy running our dirt cars. We can't watch every NASCAR race. So what I do is when, when I'm racing my dirt car on Sunday at Quincy, Illinois, I got to be ready for Herman Schrader on Monday. I take this phone, I go to, I go to Prime Video, I go to nascar and. And I scroll for five minutes and I know everything I need to know. So now I'm not being counted. I'm not watching the race because I'm doing something else. Mark, do you think NASCAR is being consumed totally different now because in our day, you only had one way to watch it.
- [42:03]
Mark Martin
Yeah. And you didn't miss it, you know, because you loved it. And you still. But you don't, you don't, you know, you don't miss it. Now if you're not watching it on tv, doesn't mean you don't want to watch it on tv. But if you got something else to do back then, you just didn't do it until the race was over. Now you can go ahead and do it and not miss, you know, every bit of it. You know, you can miss, not miss some of it.
- [42:26]
Kenny Wallace
So we're on course here, everybody. We know that our older people, they don't like prime video because they can't find it. Sons, the daughters, got to get it for you. You got to get it up on that smart tv. Got to get the other remote, you know, go to other devices, scroll on over. You got to get it, Mark. They're getting a lot less people watching on prime, but they're thrilled to death. You can put it on Fox. It'd be free. You'll get a million more views. What is your thought on that concept?
- [43:00]
Mark Martin
Okay, well, first of all, I had prime probably for 20 years because, you know, I don't go to the store. I get everything from Amazon. Dude, it's ridiculous. You can get anything in the world.
- [43:13]
Kenny Wallace
I got a grinder for grind my tires. Kim got it on Amazon.
- [43:17]
Mark Martin
You know, and honestly, I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but it's so damn convenient. You know, I'm not a fan of Bezos. I'm not a fan of Killing Main Street. You know, I'm not a fan of all that. But it's so convenient. So anyway, I had it. I didn't even know, you know, I never watched. I never used it before. So it's good for. For Amazon Prime. So they're paying more for it than Fox would. See, that's the thing. That's one of the things that's not kudos to nascar, in my opinion. Now, here's just my opinion. Kudos to nascar. They sold the TV rights for more money than it's worth.
- [44:04]
Kenny Wallace
I want to interrupt you because this is where I bring the receipts. You know, all the TV executives are still my friend, and they like. They like it that you and I kind of poke the hornets nest. They not gonna say it. They call me up, they say, herman, keep it up. Keep it up. I know for a fact that Fox is pissed that prime come in and took their five races from them. Now, now, most go ahead.
- [44:32]
Mark Martin
Prime paid more money because Prime's trying to build their. You know, they're trying to build that app. So, you know, it's really. They pay more than I think that. I think. This is my opinion. I think they paid more than what it would be worth, just real dollars, because they're trying to build the CW or they're trying to build, you know, the. These apps, you know, these. You know, they're trying to build that up. So they're investing in the growth. My opinion.
- [45:05]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, let's play devil's advocate. Mark Martin, you are nascar. Do you take the prime deal? Do you take it? Because they did. NASCAR took it. Would you have taken it?
- [45:20]
Mark Martin
I don't know, because I'm not privy enough to all of that. I'm not immersed in it. You know, obviously, like you say, why would you take a billion less to stay with the network? Although, you know, I'm the guy that stayed with Jack Roush for 19 years when I had opportunities to go to different situations. However, faster cars, you know, Devil's advocate, be hard to take less money and be loyal. Although one of my points about NASCAR selling it for more than what I think it's truly worth. Kudos to them, Good job. But now they even more than ever, have to deliver ratings and eyeballs on the tv. So if that means, if that means turning NASCAR into wwe, you know, I don't want to see that. And I would have, like I said before, I would take less money to not have to go there. Now it's NASCAR's job to deliver viewers to prime and everybody else, it's their job to grow, grow this because they sell it for so much money. The teams want all that money. They don't think they're getting enough. Now, you know, the drivers don't make what Rusty and I made. They want. Everybody wants more money. You know that. Everybody says they're starving to death, but yet, you know, there's billions and billions of dollars being coming in from the TV thing. So it's, it's, it's. It's a damn mess. And I'm not, you know, I'm not going to side with that, all of that, you know, other than to say, I wish that we stayed our own sport. Like, if, if you allow me to go off, off the rails here a little bit, I have a problem. The, the word playoff is very catchy. It's wonderful, except we ain't playing, nobody plays, and there's not two people out there, you know, that's. It's not the same as ball sports. And I don't like it being called playoffs because it's not a playoff. Even the championship last round, if it was really a playoff, there'd be four cars on the track, not 36. I just don't like that whole premise. I don't like playoffs. I don't like calling it overtime. I'd rather call it green light checkered. Our races aren't timed. They're trying to make it like ball sports because the TV people, and I've heard this from some, they want the casual fan to be able to relate to the other ball sports because they think that those fans might watch and if they flip over there and they're not a race fan, but they see sparks flying and, and everybody running over each other on these restarts, they might watch. The problem is when that's not going on, they might not watch. The old people will watch the pre roll show, the race and the post ratio. They'll watch it all. Except they don't like what they're seeing now, so maybe they won't. And I just, I think there's a problem with all that.
- [48:58]
Huggies Commercial
Real businesses like Malibu Apothecary rely on.
- [49:01]
Mark Martin
Spectrum to keep them connected. We're a fragrance company, but we also have a lot of technology that we use. Spectrum is really the backbone of any.
- [49:09]
Kenny Wallace
Of the business we do here.
- [49:10]
Mark Martin
Having a reliable fast Internet service that can fit my budget is really great. I traded a 9 to 5 for 5 to 9.
- [49:18]
Huggies Commercial
It's a lot of work, but I love it. Spectrum business Internet starts at $40 a month when bundled. Learn more@spectrum.com business restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas.
- [49:29]
Mark Martin
You're not just working on assignments.
- [49:31]
Huggies Commercial
You're building your future with Creative Cloud Pro. The real world creative skills you gain.
- [49:35]
Mark Martin
Don'T just help in class.
- [49:37]
Huggies Commercial
They set you up for career success. Get access to over 20 pro level apps like Photoshop, Illustrator and Premiere Pro. Powerful tools to turn school projects into a standout career ready portfolio. And right now, Students save over 55% on Creative Cloud Pro.
- [49:52]
Mark Martin
Visit adobe.comstudents to learn more and start.
- [49:55]
Huggies Commercial
Creating your future today.
- [49:58]
Kenny Wallace
You know, you make me think, you're making me think different. You know they have these people that study keywords. I want to say it again. The word keywords. So what I'm listening out of you is the word playoff over time. These are keywords that might resonate with the ball and stick people.
- [50:23]
Mark Martin
Yeah.
- [50:24]
Kenny Wallace
So nascar, what you're saying, nascar. I gotta tell you, you've really made me more aware, smarter. I never looked at that that way. So NASCAR has implemented the word playoffs over time because that's what the ball and stick words are. And that those people over there go, oh, I know what playoff means. I know what overtime means. Wow. I just. That a boy. Mark.
- [50:51]
Mark Martin
One more, one more thing to add to that. They're looking and you'll hear, you'll hear this. They're looking for in the playoffs that game seven moment. Dude, I don't watch ball. I don't even know what game seven means, you know, and a lot of people do and I don't. That's fine. But it's all geared toward the ball sports. That all comes from the TV people believing that we've got to get these new viewers. And so they are getting some new viewers from that. I don't. And they're getting some new viewers or extra viewers for the cutoff races in the playoff. I get that they can see it, they can see who's how many people are watching it on TV and they see that and I, I get it. But my counter to that is how many are you losing? Because they don't like that. The old people that don't like it. I hear a lot of complaints about stage racing as well. And honestly I only have a problem with stage racing when the races are too short. But it's not about me. I want to represent the majority of the fans and boy, I hear a lot of people complain about stage racing and I get why we have it and I don't hate it. Other than when there's a road course is short and you got a 15 lap stage or 18 or 20. That's not. I would like to be longer than a fuel stop so that, you know that that strategy still has to play in. But um, you know, there's, there's. There again. I, I would not stand on this hill to die on about the 36 points races. Except that's what I believe the majority of the race fans. Every way I've tried to figure it out. I believe more than 50% of the race fans would rather see that. I also believe it will never happen and I believe that there'll be a change, you know, in the, in the points deal. I think that the points itself needs to be revisited, how they're awarded and all of that. But I think you could do 36 races. People say, well, I don't want to watch it when you know, somebody wins the championship. Three races left, what's the chances of that?
- [53:24]
Kenny Wallace
It's rare. It's happened, you know, but it's rare. It's rare.
- [53:28]
Mark Martin
And 92 is rare too. Where they frickin tied, they tied. What about Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards? Tied one year when they had the Chase, they were basically tied in 92. Bill Elliott and Alan Kawicki and Allen didn't try to win the race he tried to lead the most laps.
- [53:53]
Kenny Wallace
God, what a deal.
- [53:54]
Mark Martin
In order to win the championship, they've been trying to recreate that drama ever since. You can't make every race a three wide photo finish. You just can't. And it's okay for somebody to run away with a race. It's okay for somebody to run away with a championship one time. You'll have a barn burner, you know, the next time. I keep saying that this past year's Super Bowl I didn't think was any good. And I only watch one football game a year and it's a Super Bowl. Stop me. I'm gonna watch it again next year. Cause it'll be good. I mean, some of them are outstanding. This particular one, one you can't. So what are you gonna do? Change the rules so that it's overreaction if you have a bad race or you have a runaway race or, or if you have a bad championship or whatever. See, my, my fear of this playoff system has always been, let's say there's 40 cars, is the champion finishing 36. What if every one of them went out of the race? Yeah, and my scare immediately when they came out with it was that. And you know what? I was so wrong. The winner of the race, the winner of the championship won the race every dang time ever. Except I think once, and then he ran second or so. I mean, it was ridiculous how good it worked out. And so therefore I was wrong. But it's still open to something really ugly going on. And you know, Joey being a 20th place in the points, winning the championship last year, that, that, that, that was, should have been the nail in the coffin for, for that playoff system. The one race, the one race thing. And there's, you know, there's debate whether it should be three races or whether it should be four. Five. You know, still most of the fans want 36. I would, you know, I would not bash NASCAR if they went to 10. I think five is too little. I still don't feel like it's a, it's a large enough sample. You know, even five races, you know, is, is a small sample.
- [56:16]
Kenny Wallace
It seemed like nascar. Now to your point, I'm going to bring the receipts. Mark talks, and then I tell you what happens. Me and Mark are helping each other. We're listening to each other. It seems like NASCAR agrees that Penske has a stranglehold on the Phoenix Raceway right now. So they said, okay, everybody, we hear you. You know, Joey Logano's winning all the championships. Ryan Blaney, you know, so they said this is going to be the last year. 2025 is going to be the last championship race at Phoenix. And now they're going to start moving that last championship race. Maybe it's going to go back to Miami, Homestead, you know, then maybe the next year it's going to go to somewhere else. Do you like that mark that they did? They did. That's one thing to listen to. What do you think?
- [57:12]
Mark Martin
I like that. And I, you know, I'm, I'm the first one to commend nascar. Remember, I keep saying kudos to them for, you know, selling the TV package for a monster money. Good for good on them. Good on them for moving that around. Still, I don't believe, you know, it helps with the problem, but I think they'll. One of the problems is a one race championship take all. And I don't think we'll see that. I think that, I think that will change. I just don't know if the sample size is going to be big enough. If, if they change it to three races, that will just make the competitors and NASCAR feel better, but it won't move the needle with the race fans. Three races still, you still can't, you know, really, you just need to be damn good every race for 36 races. And if somebody, if you have a flat tire or somebody puts you in the wall, you go want to whoop their ass because it's, it could ruin your entire season. Now if something goes bad, your, your season's not ruined by any means.
- [58:29]
Kenny Wallace
And so, hell, hell, driver, drivers don't have to race because their wife had a baby. My wife, my wife, she was in labor and I said, I got to go run this Xfinity race at Bristol. And I run 100 mile an hour in my car.
- [58:46]
Mark Martin
I was lucky. You know, my son was born in December. But, you know, I, I would have, I don't, you know, I would have missed, I would have missed it, dude. I. You did. I drove. Broke up all the pieces. You know, hurting bad, heartbroken after my dad's accident, you know, it just, that's what you did. You did not miss a race. It was not even a consideration. And so it was different. And here's the thing, and we talked, we touched on this. Winning a race was a different kind of big deal back then. And what I say is, TV guy, people need to work harder. They need to change this to more traditional and stick with what we are and who we are to the core, who we were. And TV Needs to work harder to make it exciting. They can. They just. They. It's going to be easy for. Have playoffs and cutoff races and all this stuff. Work harder, make this interesting. Go to people's shops. Follow these drivers around. Look at these teams. Look at these crew chiefs. Look at how they bring other information into it and bring other interest into it, okay?
- [60:09]
Kenny Wallace
And this is funny because that's why, you know, 30 minutes ago, I said, we miss speed TV. And it's funny how history repeats itself. And I'm. I'm gonna be a. Right now, we're like. We're like, oh, look over there on Netflix. I got a Formula one special. NASCAR needs to do that. NASCAR needs to follow the teams like Lamont said on Sanford and Son, you know, over he say, listen here, big dummy. We used to have that Speed TV go to everybody's race shop every single day. Yeah, Speed tv. Speed TV went to. They. Steve Burns would interview the drivers at their race shops. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. You make a good point, Mark. I. I brought the receipts right there. Okay. This can go on for hours. I just want to show everybody that. Two pages, two pages of notes here. Now, Mark Martin and myself, we've complained for 55 minutes, and boy, was it fun. We feel good. It's time to go to lunch. Okay. Oh, God, that's funny. Okay, Mark, I'm not saying we need to wrap it up, but let's. Let's go to the other side now. And I'm not going to ask, we're not going to brag on our sport, but let's. Let's go the other way now, and we got to answer these questions. Here's one that I got right here. NASCAR is. This is me. I'm riding this. Okay? NASCAR is the biggest motorsports in America, and it's not even close to. They average 2.5 million to 4 million people watching every week. I mean, what are we going to say about that?
- [62:12]
Mark Martin
Yeah, there's no disputing that. You know, it's what every stock car driver in the whole nation aspires to be a part of. So, yeah, it's the greatest stock car, and it's the hardest, too. And, dude, those drivers out there, they don't get enough credit. Every single one of them is under pressure and is doing their homework. And just because they didn't build the cars doesn't mean they haven't busted their butts. I mean, Sims and studying data and all this stuff, these guys work hard at it. It's just a different kind of Work, but they. They still work hard at their craft. And when you see someone come in, that's really good from another discipline, let's say svg. You know, look at him. I mean, he. He. He makes them look bad on road courses, but when they get on ovals, as talented as SVG is. Yeah, dude, it's hard. And just look at the Xfinity series when one of those drivers tries to step up from Xfinity to cup. Woohoo.
- [63:27]
Kenny Wallace
Hey. Okay, let's talk about that for a minute. I love this, because these are not in my notes, and I'm listening. Kyle Larson. Now, I want to back up, everybody. This is the point in the show. We've complained for 55 minutes. We're talking good now, so close your ears if you don't like this part. Okay? Kyle Larson said, and. And I liked it. And. And he knew when he said it. Kyle Larson said, my job is to embarrass these Xfinity drivers like you did Mark. And I responded to him. I said, listen, I had to race Mark Martin in that Winn Dixie Ford. I had to race Dale Senior, Dale Jarrett. I had to do that. Did you like Mark? Did you like Kyle Larson saying, my job is to embarrass these Xfinity drivers when they think they're ready to move up?
- [64:21]
Mark Martin
That was. I admired Kyle for his honesty. You don't see that all the time, but certainly I would have felt. I felt the same way. Yeah, I loved it.
- [64:34]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, it was badass. And the reason I liked it was because, Mark, I had to race you all the time. And. And, you know, my God, you were incredible. You're. You know. No, I mean, you're. You know. Listen, I'm gonna go off a little bit here. I want to let all the racers know that are watching this. And I'm gonna say this about Mark Martin. Mark Martin's ability to open the entry up. And Mark even said this to me. Mark said, herman, we grew up chopping those corners in asa. When I saw the corner coming up, I went to the entry because we ran the bottom all the time. Well, Mark, your ability to change your driving style when you got the nascar, your ability to go down that back straightaway at Charlotte and make that big arc. And then, buddy, you were coming down the hill, and you was in the gas, and we weren't even back to the gas yet. That was. That was your. That was your go to. Whether you know it or not, I'm here to tell you, you killed us because you would open you Would. I'm gonna say it like this. You arc the corners so unbelievably more than anybody. Oh, you ate that white line up in Charlotte and you just killed us. I just want everybody to know.
- [65:53]
Mark Martin
I'm glad they didn't have that SMT or whatever it is back then, you.
- [65:56]
Kenny Wallace
Know, see what you're doing.
- [65:58]
Mark Martin
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not a huge fan of that now, but. But, you know, one thing you could say, too. You could come up to me at any time, Kenny, and ask me what springs I had, what setup, and I'd tell you, you know, that's the thing of being a Kyle Larson. I don't think Kyle Larson is worried that somebody's going to beat him. He, you know, he's very confident. At that time in my career, I was so confident that I wasn't worried about, you know, sharing whatever it was that I had.
- [66:34]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, I'm. I'm so disappointed in myself. My mother was. My mother would say, okay, Kenny, you didn't get what you wanted in nascar, but you look at your life now and. And I. I have found peace now. But me and you had several talks about this, and you have helped me, Mark. And I want to thank you in front of everybody. I. I never forget. And I'm. I'm staying on course here and this little therapy for me. I'll admit it. Jimmy Spencer said something to me one time that was so provocative. He said I wasn't mentally strong enough as Dale Senior and Rusty Wallace were. Dale Senior and Rusty, they were mentally strong. I mean, you could never get them. I wasn't mentally strong enough. What a dumbass I was back then to not come up to you, Mark, and, And say, mark, I did it at the end of my career. Everybody, I. I looked. I looked at. I looked at Kevin Harvick and I said, kevin, tell me what you do here at Atlanta. And. And Kevin Harvick, if he's watching this, he'll know. He said, put your two feet out. And Kevin put both of his feet on my feet. And Abi, damn, he would let up 90%. He would never be let up 90. And he dragged a break. I started doing it the last two races at Atlanta, and I was so much better. Damn, Mark, why did I not ask you to do that to me and help me?
- [68:07]
Mark Martin
I don't know, Kenny. We. We all make mistakes. I can relate to, to. To you, Kenny. You know, I had, like you, you had a great career. I had a great career, too, but I wasn't you know, I did. I didn't achieve everything. And so, you know, I. I just, like, you have to be proud of what I did accomplish, and you need to be proud of what you did accomplish. And we did what we did, and the circumstances weren't different. You know, things could have been different, but they weren't, and we got what we got.
- [68:45]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, great point. And I do want to let everybody know that. That Mark has helped me a lot, and I've helped Mark. Mark has called me, and you got it. You got it. You. You got to be friends with people. And we're going to switch tones right here. But I want to say this. When I got married to my wife, Father John, in Pre Cana, those Catholics, I'm a Lutheran. Kim said, we got to go to Pre Cana. And I said, what's that? She said, that's where, you know, Father John makes sure we're compatible. I said, well, if we ain't, we're still getting married. And. And he said to me in Pre Cana class, he said, kenny Wallace, what are you going to do for a living? And I said, well, Father John, I'm going to race cars. And the next thing had come out of his mouth, haunted me my whole life. He said, be careful, young man. Competition will kill you. So here. Here we all are. I think of Bjornborg, the great tennis player. He didn't get what he wanted, so he gave all his trophies away. Mark, we're horrible to ourselves, all of us. Competition. Just eat. You live on it.
- [70:00]
Mark Martin
Yeah, I. I certainly let it diminish my. My life, you know, my. My joy in life. And I desperately regret allowing it to diminish the joy in my life.
- [70:15]
Kenny Wallace
How about Kenny Schrader looking at you and said, you know, Mark, you could have had a lot more fun and. And you were still going to win all those races. I mean, that was. That was provocative, but it was very nice.
- [70:27]
Mark Martin
Well, I love. Of course, I love Kenny, and I was one of the first to order his book. As soon as it came up for order, I put the order in. And he must have seen it, because when it came, he wrote a note in it and autographed it. And it was something about. Something about he wished that he had had just a little bit as much talent as I had, but he wished that I had had half as much fun as he had, you know, which is pretty cool. That's trader, you know, so, yeah, I wish I would. I wish I would have enjoyed my career more because I was so grind. I ground so hard.
- [71:14]
Huggies Commercial
Spectrum business keeps real businesses like Rise Bakery connected.
- [71:17]
Ben Kennedy
As a business owner, my Spectrum services help simplify my day. Everything we do is easier knowing that we've got a reliable connection and it helps our business just run really smoothly. Even though our techniques are very ancient, we rely just as heavily on technology. Spectrum allows my business to go from surviving to thriving.
- [71:36]
Huggies Commercial
Keep your business running smoothly with Spectrum Internet starting at $40 a month.
- [71:40]
Mark Martin
Restrictions apply.
- [71:41]
Huggies Commercial
Services not available in all areas.
- [71:44]
Mark Martin
Lights, camera, innovation. Walt Disney Studios chose advanced 5G solutions from T Mobile for business to transform the moviemaking process.
- [71:54]
Huggies Commercial
Together, we kept a remote production hub.
- [71:57]
Mark Martin
In Hawaii in sync with a team in California to bring Lilo and Stitch to theaters this summer. This is Picture Perfect collaboration. This is Walt Disney Studios with T Mobile for Business. Take your business further@t mobile.com now.
- [72:17]
Kenny Wallace
You did. You did. Okay, we don't want to. You can find all this. Everybody go over there on Kenny Conversation. There's another one with Mark. Remember? Well, we got off track there. We're supposed to be complaining. Okay, let's get back on track. Mark, we're kind of winding it down now, and we're playing devil's advocate at this point. We're talking now. We complained for 55 minutes. We're going to do about 10 to 15 minutes of good stuff. Okay. We, we admit that NASCAR is the biggest motorsports in America with 2.5 to 4 million views every week. That's just the way it is. Okay, this one here is complicated, but I just see it. Mark, with today's innovation, can we go back to the old days with this, with, with these motors and the plug in, the computers in and the, and.
- [73:18]
Mark Martin
The cars and the technology. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. That's the, that's the thing. No, you know, there's some things that you can do, but you can't. No, absolutely. You know, once you let technology in, you can't push it back out. Once these teams learn, as Jeff Burton. I were just discussing this a couple of months ago about the fuel mileage. Once you learn it, you can unlearn it. You know, so now every race, guys are. Not the whole race, but people are saving fuel all the time. And, and you can't, you can never. You can't take that back. You can't unlearn it. So it's part of our sport now. It's, it's just what you said, the technology. So much as technology we can't, we can't back. Back away from.
- [74:12]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah, I, I Agree with that. So I don't want to be in NASCAR shoes because. Just a little fun here, everybody. They quit making the carburetor in the mid-70s. Parts stores don't even have carburetors anymore. You know, fuel injection, whatever you want to call it. That's. You know, that. That's what it is now. You go to your local, you know, Joe's Automotive, Al's Auto Service, and. And you pull in there and. And they gonna plug a computer into your car. That's what they're gonna do. And they're gonna tune it with a laptop. Okay, we're not taking spark plugs out anymore. We are. Sometimes us dirt racers are, but. Yeah. So the automakers went to nascar, Mark, and they said, listen, we can't even help y' all because you're running these motors from 1970. I just want you to comment on that, Mark. To automakers getting involved in NASCAR and having them go to, you know, this type of motor because we don't run carburetor. It ain't even around anymore. That.
- [75:19]
Mark Martin
Yeah, it makes. It makes sense, you know, that they would want to modernize a lot of things. You know, if they're going to support the teams and support the. The sport in any way, they. I could see, you know, their input to modernize things. You know, it doesn't have to. It doesn't have to make you like it, but I understand it. If I was them, I would. Would I want to be trying to sell cars on Monday with carburetors on Sunday? You know, I mean, you know, I get it. You know, I mean, I wouldn't want to. If I was the guy pulling the trigger. I wouldn't. I wouldn't send money to NASCAR if they were. Wanted to keep running carburetors.
- [76:07]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, like I said, everybody, we're repeating ourselves here. Fifteen minutes of good about nascar, Mark. We got a fourth automaker coming back in. Ram is owned by Stellantis. Stellantis, whatever you want to call it. Stellantis bought part of, you know, the dot. You know, they bought part of. I'm not saying it right, but you know what I mean? Stellantis bought part of Dodge, Ram, things of that nature. They said, we're coming back in. We're going to start back in on the truck series, but we will go back to the cup series, is what they said, whether they do it or not. Now, this is. This is an automaker that the fans reacted. They were sad. I didn't realize how many Dodge fans there were. Out there. They're coming back and, and Mark, they're coming back because they see something good. What is your thoughts of, you know, we got Ford, Dodge, Toyota. Now we're gonna have a fourth one. What is your thoughts?
- [77:10]
Mark Martin
Oh, fantastic. You know, I, I, I applaud that a hundred percent. This and to your point, they wouldn't be coming back if NASCAR was dying. You know, the sky isn't always falling. You know, if you, if you look at some of these posts on X, you know the sky's falling.
- [77:30]
Kenny Wallace
That's why NASCAR is failing.
- [77:32]
Mark Martin
Yeah, there's plenty to complain about. You could complain, but the sky's not falling. The sport is healthy. It's not, it's not shriveling up. It's actually growing. It is sustaining or growing. And to have Ram come back in is fantastic for teams, for fans, for everyone involved. You know, they will do marketing that will promote the sport and it just, it just opens everything up. It's great to have them. And, you know, if, if it would be great to have even more manufacturers, as long as you didn't have to, you know, keep the engines at 550 horsepower.
- [78:22]
Kenny Wallace
You know, I mean, that's a whole nother conversation.
- [78:24]
Mark Martin
Yeah, I mean, there's no reason, there's no reason. That's not a good exclude excuse because we're trying to attract other manufacturers. But yeah, that's a different thing. It's, it's all positive. It's good to have Ram coming back. I'm excited.
- [78:41]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, so we got one more question, but we're gonna, we're gonna go to social media right now. Perfect Storm 24. Now, Mark, everybody knows that you and I are having this hour and 15 minute talk. Everybody in America right now, they know this is coming out. So this is live right now. Charlie's gonna edit this up. Perfect Storm 24. One question. Mark, why can't you just allow us to enjoy this? This is racing now. It's not 1990 anymore. The stands eventually emptied out and we need to prioritize winning again, which you have. Why can't the armory of misery allow some joy into what we have now? Today I go to five or six races a year and everybody there is happy and loving it. Can you stop feeding into the negativity? And, and Mark, now listen, I just scrolling. Here it is. Everybody sees it on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show. Now, Mark, this is going to be on Dirty Mo Media. This is on the podcast too. So for everybody on Dirty Mo Media, Mark Martin is looking at it. I'm Scrolling. I'm, I'm very open here. You can see my timeline. There he is. Thank you, Kenny. You help keep my mind off the crazy things going on in the world. Sometimes it's hard to. Better to turn everything off and read the Bible. Love on those grandkids. So, Mark, there are some fans that like Jesus. Can't we just enjoy this?
- [80:25]
Mark Martin
Yeah, I don't disagree with a lot of what he said. You know, I don't disagree with that. I'm. I don't think I'm killing joy. You know, I. I am standing up for a segment of fans that from everything that I can glean from every way I can find is the majority.
- [80:49]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah.
- [80:50]
Mark Martin
If someone would show me that it's not the majority, then I'll shut up. But right now I want to stand up for them. It's not what I want. As far as the points thing goes, I'm not always negative. You know, I brag on drivers. I brag on, you know, but I call out. What I see is, you know, so I'm not trying to kill their joy. You know, I think that's an overreaction. I think his is overreaction. But I agree with a lot of what he says.
- [81:24]
Kenny Wallace
I want to. I want to give you an attab, boy, because you do something that I admire and I love you remind everybody how hard these drivers are driving nowadays. I want to say that I feel like these drivers nowadays are copying you, Mark. They look like chiseled out Formula one drivers. They have zero body fat, their fire suits. I mean, I almost feel like if you have a belly in NASCAR nowadays, they shame you. And Mark. And I like how you brag on these drivers because you always say they're driving so hard. And Mark, they are. And you and I know that.
- [82:03]
Mark Martin
Yeah. And they're working hard.
- [82:06]
Kenny Wallace
Yeah. And they're working hard in a different way than you and I did. I learned, you know, listen, Justin Augar came on Kenny Conversation. Justin Argyle said, I'm going to be 40 next year. It's my last year. I'm going back to Springfield. It was a shocking interview. A lot of people know about it, but they. It looks like some people don't care. But Justin Augar makes most of his living, Mark, in a surprising way, he's on the Chevrolet Sim 247 for these cup drivers. Just to hear, you know, you and I went testing, we went to the racetrack. Talk about that for a minute, Mark, where, you know, I mean, some of these drivers, you know, David Reagan for Ford. David Reagan for Ford. This is fact. Justin Allgar for Chevrolet. They spend their whole life on these sims like you and Rusty did on the airplane simulators. Talk about that. Mark.
- [83:03]
Mark Martin
Yeah. You know, there's so much work that goes into this. It's a different kind of work, and I respect it. I'm not one of those guys that, you know, I'm a huge fan of a guy that gets his hands dirty. Chris Buescher, you know, Tom a Jet Ski. Ryan Preece. These guys have built their own race cars and stuff like that. I'm a huge fan of that, but that doesn't mean I'm not a huge fan of Kyle Larson or a huge fan of Jeff Gordon. He never got his hands dirty, but he's one of the greatest ever. Greatest talents. Worked hard, had to craft. These guys today, they work hard. I have nothing but. But, you know, yeah, it's different. But I don't have to be negative about it. I can respect the work that they put in.
- [83:59]
Kenny Wallace
Mark. I feel like most of the labor we do a lot of. Now, there's. Listen, there's. We're still cutting grass, we're still digging ditches, but not like we used to. And I really feel like we're getting fat because there's no more labor intensified. And this has to do with nascar. What we're doing now is we're working so much smarter that we don't sweat like we used to. And. And, you know, you got. You got to work to keep your weight down because, you know, you and I, we were so labor intensified. Right? So nowadays it's. Everything's about. I mean, I see all this hard. What do you do for a living? Oh, I'm on the computer all day long. Type it. It's like, really? That's what you do? That's. That's hard work, you know, because I'm typing. Mark. It is a different work environment nowadays. You know, when we don't put our cars on the scales and dirt racing anymore, we load sticks, spring smashers. It's easier for Lucas Oil 8 models. They're the ones that choose to race so much. But, I mean, just talk about we've got to stay healthier because we're not as labor intensified as we used to be.
- [85:12]
Mark Martin
That's true. And, you know, physical activity is crucial to the human. I mean, we evolved from hunter gatherers, dude, we need to move. And some people are more susceptible than others at this. I desperately need. I'm addicted to working out because it gives me something. Endorphins. Dopamine, you know, it, it gives me something that makes me in much better mood. It enhances my life. And when, you know, when you don't have any of that, when you don't exercise, you don't work out, you don't have that, you know, it all snowballs on you and it cannot be good for your mental state as well as your physical state. I think today's food also, if you really look into it, I think it really has a lot more negative effect. You know, the genetically modified, you know, things that are in our wheat and so many things I don't think our body recognizes as food. They say that, you know, a lot of the gluten stuff, your body doesn't recognize that as a food. And it's done that way to make it grow and grow faster, you know, and all that thing. So I think that my hope is that he's able to, you know, make some progress with our food. Dude, too many young people, I'm not talking young people turn up with cancer nowadays and autism nowadays that, you know, there's a lot of things nowadays that is so much more prominent than it was 50, 60, 70 years ago. And there's something going on with that. I'm not saying it's the food, but I'm not saying it's not, you know, or that's not part of it. So physical activity and feeding your body. I like, I always tried to treat my body when I raced like tomorrow was the biggest race of my life. Yeah, I'm a little slack now.
- [87:39]
Kenny Wallace
No. And remember, everybody, let me remind you why we're talking like this. It's because sometimes we're too hard on these new drivers. Me and Mark, we would go test. Now they're in sims because NASCAR doesn't allow testing and they have that technology. So that's why we're talking like this. It, it, it is just easier now. But you do have to be brain smart.
- [88:05]
Mark Martin
Yeah, well, it's easier physically, but it's not, I don't, I'm not, I don't subscribe to it being easier. You know, it's mental. Mental is work too. And there's a lot more mental stuff. You know, you're spending, you know, I, I couldn't do that. You know, the sim, it made me sick motion. So kudos to all those guys that, that could do that. I don't know what I would do. I tried to do that with Toyota at the end of my MWR career and I went to do the first sim session and I Had to go out back and throw up. Actually, I got sick, and I was like, well, that's out. I can't do.
- [88:44]
Kenny Wallace
Same with me. Same with me. I got. I got dizzy. I'm like, this ain't real. Get me out.
- [88:50]
Mark Martin
Yeah. As soon as that car moved on pit road, my body screamed, yeah, wrong. It knew something wasn't right for the scent.
- [89:00]
Kenny Wallace
They knew it was fake.
- [89:02]
Mark Martin
My body did my mind or something.
- [89:05]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, so two more things and we're done, everybody. Somebody said, oh, no. Okay, this is live, everybody. Bob Pokra said NASCAR announced it has sold all the grandstand seats for the cup race in Iowa in August. Usually Stuck said NASCAR lost a bunch of fans because they took out seats. Okay, we did one positive, we done one negative, and now we're going to end like this, Mark. We're going to end like this. Nascar, as Kenny Schrader said, I'm g. Steal this from Schrader. He said it's not skyrocketing and NASCAR's trending back up. What is your response?
- [89:53]
Mark Martin
I agree with that. It's trending back up. And even if it's flat at. At. At times, that's okay. I don't believe. I believe that's good. You know, we're not. We're not in a downward trend. You know, we are in a transition. We have transitioned from less people at the racetrack for lots of reasons. Dude, it costs a lot of money to take your family to one of these races nowadays, you know, and it's so easy to watch it on tv. It's an experience everybody should witness in person. But, you know, maybe not. You know, not. Maybe not eight times a year. Maybe only once a year.
- [90:31]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, there it is, everybody. We're going to wrap up what we just talked about. Mark Martin and myself, we told you we love nascar. We care about it. Mark and myself, we talked about it. We complained for 55 minutes. But we do admit that NASCAR is trending back up. Mark's got incredible valid points. Mark, the one that you said about the. The key words, that blew me away. That blew me away. And Richard Petty's got an old video out there that's going around social media right now. Richard Petty said exactly what you said. This ain't bowling stick. We're different. I think we did it, Mark. I think we did it justice. Hour and 25 minutes.
- [91:17]
Mark Martin
Hey, I just want to. Before we get off here, we both love the fans. Oh. All our. With all our heart. Even if we get cross or disagree with some of them, we still love y' all.
- [91:30]
Kenny Wallace
Yes. And that is so true. And I'm having fun. Okay, everybody. There he is. The hall of Famer. My God. 40 cup wins. 49 Xfinity wins. ASA champion. Five time IROC champ. Seven truck. The truck wins. You only ran 20 and you won seven of them. The great Mark Martin. Mark, thank you so much.
- [91:54]
Mark Martin
Thank you, man. It's been fun.
- [91:56]
Kenny Wallace
Okay, everybody, remember, this is the Kenny Wallace YouTube show, but we're also right here on Dale Jr's Dirty Mo Media. You if you want to see Mark Martin's pretty face, you go to that Kenny Wallace YouTube show. If you're traveling, you want to listen, you go to Dirty Mo Media podcast. Until the next Kenny conversation. We'll see you later, everybody. Goodbye. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.
- [92:30]
Huggies Commercial
With leading networking and connectivity, advanced cybersecurity.
- [92:34]
Mark Martin
And expert partnership, Comcast business helps turn.
- [92:36]
Huggies Commercial
Today'S enterprises into engines of modern business. Powering the engine of modern business. Powering possibilities.
- [92:44]
Mark Martin
Restrictions apply with McValue. At McDonald's, you don't just get deals on the drinks. You get deals on McDonald's drinks. So when you're breaking a sweat, embrace the chill without breaking the bank. And when your crew is running on empty, keep your wallet full while refreshing the squad.
- [93:03]
Huggies Commercial
Get more than you expect on your favorite medium drinks, like frozen Fantablue, raspberry iced coffee or lemonade. Now at just $2.29, price of participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer, but up.