Mark Richards: The Dirty Truth About Dirt Racing

Summary

Podcast Summary: Herm & Schrader – Episode: Mark Richards: The Dirty Truth About Dirt Racing

Release Date: July 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Herm & Schrader, hosts Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader delve deep into the world of dirt racing with guest Mark Richards, a legendary figure renowned for his innovative contributions to dirt super late model racing. The conversation spans Mark's early beginnings, his entrepreneurial journey with Rocket Chassis, the challenges faced in the racing industry, and the evolving dynamics of local and national dirt racing scenes.

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Early Beginnings and Introduction to Racing [02:24 - 06:20]

Mark Richards shares his roots in dirt racing, influenced heavily by his father, who was an avid racer in the 1950s. Growing up in West Virginia, Mark was immersed in the racing environment from a young age, attending local tracks like Morgantown Speedway, Interstate Raceway, and Pennsborough.

Notable Quote:

Mark Richards [03:27]: "I'm a dirt racer, and my dad built the racetrack. I was like 4 years old. He built the racetrack across the street which was Interstate 79."

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Formative Years and Mentorship [06:20 - 16:52]

Mark recounts his teenage years, building cars under the mentorship of Buddy Parker and later working closely with the legendary Ed Howe from 1979 to 1984. Ed Howe's expertise, particularly in scaling cars, profoundly influenced Mark's engineering mindset.

Notable Quote:

Mark Richards [15:10]: "I learned real quick that this Ed Howe was way ahead of everybody else."

Mark also discusses his partnership with Rodney Combs, forming the company WRC, and their extensive travels racing across various tracks, including interactions with notable figures like Rusty and Mike Wallace.

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Entrepreneurial Journey and Rocket Chassis Formation [16:52 - 37:04]

Transitioning from hands-on racing to building cars, Mark details the inception of Rocket Chassis in 1991 alongside Steve Baker and Scott Perky. Faced with financial hardships and industry challenges, Mark and his team innovated by creating the "Rocket" car, which significantly impacted dirt racing dynamics.

Notable Quote:

Mark Richards [41:49]: "When you put money into something and you make it to where you're racing for more money, it just costs more money, and that's where we're at."

By 1991, Rocket Chassis had built over 6,200 cars, establishing itself as a cornerstone in dirt super late model racing.

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Challenges in the Racing Industry [37:04 - 58:15]

Mark candidly discusses the financial struggles inherent in dirt racing. Despite winning significant races and accumulating gross earnings, the high operational costs and reliance on sponsorships make profitability elusive. He draws parallels between dirt racing and professional sports like the NFL, emphasizing that only a select few truly make substantial money.

Notable Quote:

Mark Richards [78:04]: "This team never had money. It takes money. ... It takes somebody to lead that crew, and you got to have a great crew, and it takes a great driver."

Mark also touches on the personal sacrifices required, highlighting the impact on family life, particularly referencing his son Josh's early immersion in racing and subsequent burnout.

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Impact of Streaming and Technology on Local Racing [58:15 - 66:14]

The conversation shifts to the effects of digital streaming on local dirt racing. Mark argues that while national exposure has its benefits, it has diluted the presence of local heroes and reduced attendance at smaller tracks. The accessibility of races online has inadvertently undermined the community-centric nature of local racing events.

Notable Quote:

Mark Richards [63:00]: "We have killed the local heroes with, with the streaming and the access to make fans national fans."

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Driver Development and Team Dynamics [66:14 - 84:47]

Mark elaborates on the critical factors for successful driver development, emphasizing car control, experience, and financial backing. He narrates instances of nurturing young talent like Brandon Shepard and Hudson O'Neill, illustrating the complexities of transitioning drivers from local to national stages.

Notable Quote:

Mark Richards [79:15]: "It takes money. This team never had money. And difference that I feel like I've been here all these years and through the hard times, the good times, whatever."

The discussion also highlights the importance of strong partnerships and effective crew management, citing Scott Perky's exceptional work ethic and contributions to Rocket Chassis.

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Future of Dirt Racing and Concluding Insights [84:47 - 100:25]

Mark shares his vision for the future of dirt racing, advocating for the preservation of multiple racing divisions to maintain competitiveness and diversity. He underscores the necessity of sponsors in sustaining teams and improving the overall quality of racing events.

In the closing segments, Kenny Wallace lauds Mark Richards as the "king of dirt super late models" and expresses admiration for his relentless dedication to the sport.

Notable Quote:

Kenny Wallace [98:56]: "You're the king of dirt super late models. If it stopped right now, you're in the hall of fame."

Mark concludes by reflecting on the personal relationships forged in racing and the enduring passion that fuels his commitment to the sport.

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Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth exploration of the intricacies of dirt racing through the lens of Mark Richards' illustrious career. From grassroots beginnings to industry leadership with Rocket Chassis, Mark's insights shed light on the financial, technological, and personal challenges that shape the world of dirt racing. His candid discussion on driver development, the impact of digital media, and the future landscape provides valuable perspectives for enthusiasts and aspiring racers alike.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• Mark Richards [03:27]: "I'm a dirt racer, and my dad built the racetrack. I was like 4 years old."
• Mark Richards [15:10]: "I learned real quick that this Ed Howe was way ahead of everybody else."
• Mark Richards [41:49]: "When you put money into something and you make it to where you're racing for more money, it just costs more money."
• Mark Richards [63:00]: "We have killed the local heroes with, with the streaming and the access to make fans national fans."
• Mark Richards [78:04]: "It takes somebody to lead that crew, and you got to have a great crew, and it takes a great driver."
• Mark Richards [79:15]: "It takes money. This team never had money."
• Kenny Wallace [98:56]: "You're the king of dirt super late models. If it stopped right now, you're in the hall of fame."

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This rich and detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the conversation, providing listeners with comprehensive insights into the world of dirt racing and Mark Richards' pivotal role in shaping it.

Transcript

[Kenny Wallace]

I am jacked up about the race at Sonoma. Especially Tyler redick in the number 45 car. Man, that race Zigs and Zags. They got a tight 180 degree corner right before you come to the start finish line. Up the hill, down through the S's. Any moment you're thinking they're going to run off course. Man, I love Sonoma. The thrill of race day. Sonoma meets the non stop excitement of Chumba Casino. High energy, full throttle and always a good time. Chumba Casino is a social casino where you can always play for free. No purchase needed. Claim free coins every day with daily boosts. Play over 200 games with new ones released weekly. Social live casino brings the energy. Play blackjack, roulette, live slots or baccarat alongside live hosts and real players. No downloads needed. Just click play and have fun anywhere anytime. With over 1 million players. Play for free at chumbacasino.com free welcome bonus at sign up 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweeps coins. Follow Chumba Casino on social or login every day for free daily coins. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void. We're prohibited by law. See TNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. My favorite part about having US cellular home Internet is all the things it lets me do. Its quick connection lets me enjoy things like streaming my shows, keeping up with my friends online, taking work calls without lagging and not having to stress about cost. Switch to US Cellular and do the things you love with the Internet. You love just $39.99 a month when bundled with a wireless plan. And if you don't love it, you have 15 days to let us know. Terms apply. Visit uscellular. Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com because they have it all. But right now they have Jeep parts, pickup truck parts. So go there and get it all. You are looking at one of the most innovative dirt super late model race car builders in history. The great Mark Richards. Mark, how are you doing?

[Mark Richards]

Oh, we're doing great, Kenny. We're happy to be on here with you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, I know you, but I don't know you real good.

[Mark Richards]

I find you.

[Kenny Wallace]

I find you extremely interesting because I feel like in a strange way you and I kind of came up the same way. So let's spend 10 or 15 minutes at at the. At the Making of Mark Richards.

[Mark Richards]

Who.

[Kenny Wallace]

Who is Mark Richards? And let's go like this. When you started, I know you had about three dirt tracks around you. Morgantown Speedway, Interstate Raceway, the legendary Pennsborough. But there was also an asphalt tracking in Heidelberg in Pennsylvania. But then, but then you sprinkle a little bit of Rodney Combs in there and you know, Rodney goes nasty. We're just starting. Thank you so much. So are you a dirt racer or are you an asphalt racer?

[Mark Richards]

I'm a dirt racer and my dad built the racetrack. I was like 4 years old. He built the racetrack across the street which was Interstate 79. We ended up being the promoters of it for 15 years, Steve and I did from 1990 up until 94. I watched my dad build the place when I was 4 years old. So I was really a dirt racer. So my dad had raced in the 50s and he had really good cars back in those days. And they were racing five, six nights a week because there was all kinds of little speedways around here. I wasn't born until 1960, so my dad had done went broke in the racing business. And when I came along, he was a race fan by that time. And he was in the construction work and he did the work over here at this racetrack for the guy that still owned. Well, he's not here now, but the guy that owned the property, the family still owns the property and that has turned into the auto auction. So the racetrack is gone. So that's where my ties started. My dad would take me to Morgantown Speedway, to Pennsborough, to all the local tracks around here. And he was a big race fan. But there's one thing my dad always said, because he went broken racing in the 50s, he said, you can't make a living in racing. But on the other hand, my dad would always say, if you work hard enough, you can get anything you want. So it kind of, you know, was a double edged sword there with that because once I got introduced to racing and we, we traveled to a lot of the local dirt tracks and then we started going to Heidelberg. And Heidelberg was the track up here by Pittsburgh. And that's where all the big asphalt runners back in that day would come in. Ed, Hal, Tom Meyer, all them guys would come in and race. Gary Blue, Bobby Allison, all them guys back in that day. And I'm a little kid, I'm a kid 10 years old in the stands watching these guys. And you know, I watched Ed Howe come in with these two green cars and win like crazy like those. Like Ed Howe was the legend in that day. And I still say he's the guy that's got us more so to where we are in short track dirt and short track late model racing because there's a lot of people that have sprung off of that AD Howell deal. You know, Dylan, did you know Port City, did you know Junior Hanley? Did you know there was all kinds of guys that sprung off of Ed Howe? And you got to realize Ed Howe was out of. He was pretty much out of it. By 1985, he was out of it. I was fortunate enough to be with him from 79 to 84, and those were my real really earning years.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, so we're, we're going to go there. Let's back up a little bit. You, we're going to get to Ed.

[Mark Richards]

How?

[Kenny Wallace]

Because I find that extremely interesting. Mark, let's go down south for a little bit. When do you make the move? You go to nascar, you go down south. Tell me about that little jaunt.

[Mark Richards]

I, I never really made a real jaunt back. Let's back up a little bit. Morgan Shepard drove to my brother. My brother had all kinds of drivers and I was the guy. I was 13 years old and my brother brings a race car home. Now my dad's telling me, you know, you can't make a living in racing. But he loved racing, so he took me to all these races. And then my brother brings a car home and my dad's mad because he doesn't want me to fool him with a race car. You know, he doesn't want me in the pits, he doesn't want me doing none of that stuff. By the time I was 16, I was building cars because my brother had brought a guy from Georgia that worked for Clint Smith's dad, Roscoe Smith.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow, what a name. What a name.

[Mark Richards]

His, his name. I mean, he had a guy that worked there. His name was Buddy Parker. And Buddy moved up here and I worked with Buddy for about a year and a half. And Buddy was one of the old time builders. He could go in the junkyard and get frame rails off of a 57 Chevy and front clip off of a 69 Camaro and spindles off of a 64 Ford. And you put all that stuff together. And that was a late model in that day. That was back in the 70s. By the time I was 16, 74, 75, I was building those cars. Well, Rodney Combs came along. Morgan Shepard was driving for us and for my brother. And we was at Newport Speedway in Tennessee and they had an NDRA race, the first NDRA race back in the day. And Morgan said, I'm going to qualify. There was 147 cars, and he said, I'm going to qualify and put that car on the front row. The first two cars didn't have to run a heat race. He was third. Well, he had to leave that night and go race a sportsman race. Back in that day was NASCAR sportsman.

[Kenny Wallace]

Up in South Boston, which is now Xfinity.

[Mark Richards]

Yeah, Xfinity. And Morgan says, get somebody to drive it in the heat and I'll come back tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm just a young kid, you know, and my brother, he owns this stuff. He's 20 years older than me. And Doug Kennemer, which was a World 100 winner back in the day, if you look on the world 100. And my brother was really good friends, and we needed a driver to run it in the heat race. And Doug said, look, if I don't make it, I'll run it. Well, he made the race, and we talked Robert Smalley, which was the. The head guy at ndra, we talked him into letting us move that car to the tail of the 16th race from the pole of the first heat to the tail with the 16th. We moved the car to there with 147 cars there. There's 20 some cars in a heat race. So my Rodney Combs comes over. I didn't. I didn't even know Rodney Combs. So Rodney Combs comes over and Doug brings him over and he says, this guy will run the car if he doesn't make it in his. He. Well, Rodney was running third and is he. And he'd set in a car and he'd been wanting to run a car like Doug Kennemer ran. And our car was a lot like Doug Kennemer's back in the day. And anyhow, he got in the car before the heat, and he looked at me and I knew when he walked off, he was coming back. He winked at me.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And he was running third in the heat race. And just so happens he spins out on the last lap, he comes and gets in that car and drives it from the tail and wins the heat race with it. And the car that I built.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Mark Richards]

And wins the heat race with it. So now Rodney's our driver because him and his owners got into it. And, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't really a good deal. And, you know, Rodney ended up driving our car and he raced for us. And I got to know Rodney. Rodney was. Rodney and I are like brothers because we spent. I was 19 when I got 18 when I got around Rodney the first time, and was with Rodney until I was 26. And we did a lot of stuff running up and down the roads, and we ran across Rusty and Mike back in those days when we were running up and down the road, Rusty Wallace and Mike Wallace, and I can remember the 6 car that Mike drove very well, like we as an i70 and places like that. But anyhow, Rodney ended up for my brother. Well, then this guy named J.D. stacy comes along, which you probably know who J.D. stacy was, right? A lot of people knew J.D. stacy or knew of J.D. stacy in the 80s because he was.

[Kenny Wallace]

A coal miner, right?

[Mark Richards]

Was.

[Kenny Wallace]

It wasn't.

[Mark Richards]

He sold coal mining equipment.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay?

[Mark Richards]

That's where he. That's where he came from. He was selling a piece of mining equipment that the Dutch government was promoting, and he had open checkbook. That's where a lot of the money was coming from back in the day. So he walked in my brother's shop. He was up here selling a piece of mining equipment. My brother was wanting to get out of racing at that time, and he was wanting to move to Alabama. So with another coal miner, his name was Dick White, with another coal miner, they walked in the shop and they said, we want to buy everything here, and we want him to go to work for us. Pointing at you. Are you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. Yeah. He wanted me to go to work for him because they had heard I was building these cars, you know, like when I was a teenager. So he bought everything my brother had, J.D. stacy did. And there was a guy driving force, David Spears at the time. And he was a great driver. He was from Campbellsville, Kentucky. He was a great driver. He raced two races, won both of those races. And he was at the shop. We were getting ready for another race, and the next thing I know, he's gone. So one of the guys that worked there said, I took him to the airport. He wanted to go to the airport. So he went to the local airport, got an airplane ride out of here, and flew back home. Well, back then, there was no cell phone, so you really couldn't keep up with nobody. It was no way to get back in contact with him. So he had to get back to the house before I could find out. Well, he got nervous because of all the money that J.D. stacy was, you know, using and all that. So he got nervous. He'd never been around anything like that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Did he think it was illegal money? Did he think it was bad?

[Mark Richards]

I don't know whether he knew that, but we went to eat and JD had probably 30 people there. This hot, you know, high end restaurant back in the 80s.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And the night before. And David Spears is like, he's never. He told me, he said, I've never been around nothing like that. So they said, get some. Get somebody to drive. Well, Rodney had drove for my brother, and that had went bad. That ended not well because he blew up every. We blew up every engine my brother had and just about put my brother out of racing. But Rodney drove hard, and he was hard, like on the engines. So we blew up all these engines, and my brother and Rodney, they parted ways. But I liked Rodney, and Rodney and I become friends. And I said, well, we'll get Rodney Combs up here to drive. So I called Rodney and he moved. He came up here, met with Stacy, met with Dick White, the guy that was in with Stacy. And they told him they'd pay for him to move to West Virginia so he could be right here. And he was down the road a little ways. A company that we formed was called WRC back in the day, and Rodney and I formed that company with Dick White. Dick White was the W, I was the R, and Rodney was the C. And Rodney said, look, I can come and do it with one exception. I said, what's that? He said, we got to run Ed Howell's house cars.

[Kenny Wallace]

And you're building cars?

[Mark Richards]

Well, well, I was half. You know what I mean? I really wasn't like Ed Howell. You know, I'm some local kid from West Virginia that got a, you know, a love for racing, and I'm building cars. So I get a chance to go work with this guy that I watched when I was 10 years old when these races at Heidelberg, you know, just dominate.

[Kenny Wallace]

So the big moment for me right.

[Mark Richards]

Now, it's a big moment for me because I. That was the guy. I still say he changed the landscape of where we are today because I learned to scale cars. Nobody was scaling cars. Everybody had a weight jack. And you walked around with this weight jack and this hydraulic weight jack, and you checked weight, and Ed was scaling cars. I learned real quick that this Ed Howe was way ahead of everybody else. And there was a guy there named Herbert.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me interrupt your. Yeah, let me interrupt you. Hold on. I. I don't. I'm sorry. I find Ed Hal, he's like. He's Dutch. He's. You know, guys like Mike Eddy, Bob Sener, I can put them all in a circle. I can put Bob Senaker, Mike Eddy. You know, Ed, how these people are of a different Breed from Beavertown, Michigan, extremely smart. Okay. Now, I just wanted to let the fans know this. Go ahead.

[Mark Richards]

Well, he was like the ultimate guy back in those days, you know what I mean? Like when his car showed up, they won. So I now I've got the opportunity at 19 years old to crew chief Ed Howe's dirt car program. That's pretty big, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

That's bigger than big because I'm 60 years old right now and I was born in 63.

[Mark Richards]

I.

[Kenny Wallace]

Not much difference between you and myself. And there's so much to say, but I want to keep hearing your, your line here, how, how you got to where you're at. This is good stuff.

[Mark Richards]

So anyhow, we go, we go racing, I go, I don't know this guy, you know, Ed, really dry guy. Like he does. Serious 100%. There's no yes with Ed. How a lot of people, I mean, I may have got a little bit from Ed. You know, I've always been pretty serious.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And people didn't understand me. But when Ed got away from the racetrack, Ed was a great guy, but at the racetrack there was no bs.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And you know, he would do the craziest stuff, like when you were away from the racetrack and you were just going down the road, he's, he's liable to say the craziest stuff you ever heard or do the craziest stuff you ever seen. He just was a kid. I mean, he was like a big kid, but at the racetrack this guy was dead serious and there was no bs. And Rodney got me introduced to Ed and then we took over that house car program. So now we're racing with jd, Stacy, Ed, house cars, and we're racing out of West Virginia with a shop that Rodney had up the street from here or down the street from here. And Rodney and I form a business with this other partner which we later bought out. And you know, we're racing all over the country and Stacy would come and race with us. He would come to the races with us as much as he'd go to those NASCAR races. There was a guy named Booby Arrington. Did you know Booby?

[Kenny Wallace]

I know Booby very good. He's the one that originally started taking all the pit equipment, the tires to the.

[Mark Richards]

He was a guy after that, did that, But Booby was JD's right hand man. And when JD would come to the races, the dirt races, we got to know Booby. Rodney had some asphalt experience and JD was on me to become a Cub crew chief. He's like as hard as you work and all this stuff you do building these cars and, you know, I'm not. It's different today. I can't do it. I could never even think about doing what I did back in those days. I could go for three, four days and not sleep right. And work on cars, build cars. I'd go to Ed's, build a new car and not go to bed until it was done. And that might be three days, you know, that you never even thought about going to sleep.

[Kenny Wallace]

And that's the way we were back then. Yes.

[Mark Richards]

That's the way the racing was, Kenny, because we had to build everything.

[Kenny Wallace]

And we loved it.

[Mark Richards]

And we loved it. And I loved it. I love my experience with Ed Howe. Herb Brand. You know, Herb Brand is.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, don't know that name.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. Bren was the guy that started Bren transmission. Herb was. He was. He was Ed's partner. Well, he was the engineer there, and I got to really know Herb well. We're still great friends. He sold out of the Bren transmission thing, but when I'm racing, he's texting me. He's 80 some years old, and he's still into it. So anyhow, this J.D. stacy, Rodney and I were running all over the country. We're at I 70. We're at tri City back in the day, and Rusty and Mike and I don't remember you that much back then, but I remember them that much back, you know, a lot back then. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

For everybody that's listening, what you're talking about is our tracks around the St. Louis area. Yes.

[Mark Richards]

Well, yeah, well, we raced all over the country back in those days with a little box van and an open trailer. I mean, it was nothing for us to leave east side of Ohio and say, all right, we're going to Kansas City tomorrow to race, and we're in a box van. And we. And we did that stuff. It was crazy. But I got to know Mike and I got to know Rusty, and like I said, I don't remember you that much back in those days, but I do remember them really well. And I'll have a funny story about Mike here a little bit.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, this is Dalenhardt Jr. And for the latest Herman Schrader gear, you need to go to shop.dirtymomedia.com We've got plenty of options for everybody, and we're adding new stuff all the time, so go to shop.dirtymomedia.com I am jacked up about the race at Sonoma, especially Tyler Redick in the number 45 car. Man, that race zigs and zags, they got a tight 180 degree corner right before you come to the start finish line up the hill, down through the S's. Any moment you're thinking they're gonna run off course. Man, I love Sonoma. The thrill of race day. Sonoma meets the non stop excitement of Chumba Casino. High energy, full throttle and always a good time. Chumba Casino is a social casino where you can always be play for free. No purchase needed. Claim free coins every day with daily boosts. Play over 200 games with new ones released weekly. Social live casino brings the energy. Play blackjack, roulette, live slots or baccarat alongside live hosts and real players. No downloads needed. Just click play and have fun anywhere anytime. With over 1 million players, play for free at chumbacasino.com free welcome bonus at sign up 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweeps coins a la Chumba Casino on social or login every day for free daily coins. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void. We're prohibited by law. See TNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. Smokey the Bear. After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips, Smokey Bear lives with within us all.

[Mark Richards]

Learn [e-mail] and remember, only you can prevent wildfires brought to you by the.

[Kenny Wallace]

USDA Forest Service or State Forester and the ad Council. Yeah, so we, we've established your your start and if we keep going the way we're going, we'll be three hours and they'll have to be a part two. So we've let everybody that knows who you are right now. You're the innovator of rocket chassis. You're known as one of the smartest people in 2024. Your cars win all the time. Now let's, let's move forward a little bit. Mark, what I want to know from you is that engineering mind you have what I call Ed Howe, Bob Senec or Mike Eddy. Very serious at the racetrack. We don't mess around. Did that come from your dad? Did that come from your mom? Or did you have you are. Have you been emulating Ed how all this time?

[Mark Richards]

I think it's a combination of a little bit of my dad and probably a lot of Ed. How Because I respect that guy a lot. I respected that guy a lot and you know, he was my mentor. And when people say where did you go to school? I say Beaverton, Michigan.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Mark Richards]

Because I lived up there. I mean when I say live there, I was there A lot. You know what I mean? I was back and forth from wherever we were racing. I mean, a lot of times we would leave the racetrack and drive straight back to Beaverton, Michigan to build a new car and not even come back to our home shop, you know, at the time. And Rodney and I got in business by selling our cars on the road and, you know, we, we would race and be successful and sell our car and then have to drive straight to Michigan to build another one and two or three days I'd have a new car on the truck ready to go again and we'd sell that car and you know, back then we'd make maybe five, ten grand on a car and that we didn't have any money. Rodney and I didn't have any money to say, to speak of as much to be in business. But that's how we got in business and it's pretty much how Steve Baker and I got in business.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I want to go with Steve Baker now. I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult your intelligence. I'm dumb on this part. Tell me about Steve Baker. Who is Steve Baker?

[Mark Richards]

The best partner anybody could ask for.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Mark Richards]

In any type. Any type of business, yes. The reason we have been so successful, when I say I have been successful, the reason I've been successful, it's been because of Steve Baker.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Mark Richards]

And the reason Steve Baker's been successful, he will tell you it's been because of me.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And you're a good team together. Together we made a great team. He called me one day and that was after I sold out to Rodney. I sold out to Rodney in 1986. I got married in 85 and I was on the. I was going to work every day, working till midnight. Well, I figured out that wasn't going to work. You know, I was driving 40 minutes to work and going there 8, 9 o' clock in the morning and not coming home to 1 o' clock in the morning and just got married. So I figured out that that wasn't going to work. So I quit. Here I am 26 years old and been in business with Rodney since, since 79. You know, we were in business seven years in 1986. I sell out to him and I'm just going to get me a regular job because I'm like, I can't do this racing because there wasn't much money in racing back then. Racing wasn't where you could just make a living at it. You had to work really hard and there was very little money and that's why I didn't go to nascar, because, you know, Stacy wanted me to go down there. When he bought the Osterlin team. When Dale Earnhardt was driving for Osterlin, Stacy said, stop in because we need Rodney to drive this car and we want you to train under Dale Inman. So I. We wrote we stop in there one day at the old Austrian shop. I remember Ron Austin.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yep.

[Mark Richards]

And. And they're showing us around. Booby's showing us around, and JD's showing us around. And they said, I met Dale Inman. And they said, mark, you're going to work under Dale Inman. I mean, really, if that was the direction I wanted to go, what better opportunity could you got?

[Kenny Wallace]

Richard's crew chief.

[Mark Richards]

Yeah. So Dale was in there working for Stacy at that time at Austerlin. So we decided that we were dirt racers that day. Rodney and I decided that we're going to keep dirt racing because we like the life we got. You know, we're dirt racers. Well, they said, if you don't take this deal, we got a guy that's stopping in here in a little bit. So we're just hanging out there. So this guy pulls up in this little Porsche, gets out. He's got hair flowing down over his back. Looks like a girl, got silk shorts on. Which you got to realize this was probably 81 or 82.

[Kenny Wallace]

I can't wait to hear who this is.

[Mark Richards]

And Dale. And here, Dale Earnhardt had just quit the 2 car. He was driving that car the week before. Dale Earnhardt.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Which in those days, you heard Dale Earnhardt, you didn't think of it the way you think of it now or, you know, a few years.

[Kenny Wallace]

He was wrecking everybody's stuff.

[Mark Richards]

Yeah. So he didn't like Stacy's deal. And they had the wrangler on the car. So that changed over to that Stacy pack whenever they did the vitamin deal. And this guy walks in, gets out of this little Porsche, walks in, and JD says, I want to introduce you to Tim Richmond.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's who I thought you was gonna say.

[Mark Richards]

And he said, if you guys, if you guys don't want this deal, Tim Richmond is here and is going to take over driving this car. Well, I've never heard of Tim Richmond. None of us had, you know, because back then it wasn't all the media. All the stuff online like there is today. News was slow, so we had to figure out who Tim Richmond was. Well, we get to reading the papers, Tim Richmond wins this USAC race. You know, he's winning well, let me tell you something. About a month after that, everybody knew who Tim Richmond was because that guy was unbelievable, you know, in a cup car. And, you know, that was my. My connection that almost made it to nascar. That's when I changed my path in life and. Or pick the. The right lane instead of the left lane at the Y. And I went to the dirt stuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, so let's fast forward. I want to say I'm sorry that we can't do every little thing. So. I know, Dave, I know. I know of Davey Johnson. I raced him in the Busch series. I knew he was a great dirt racer. So, Mark, we're fast forwarding.

[Mark Richards]

Yes.

[Kenny Wallace]

So Davey wins a really big race in one of your cars with your. Well, with one of your front ends on it. Okay. With the legendary blue front end.

[Mark Richards]

He actually, it was. It wasn't the blue front end yet, but I'll bring you up to speed. Steve and I goes in business at 86.

[Kenny Wallace]

Gotta go quick. We're a half hour already.

[Mark Richards]

Steve says, all right. You know, Ray Callahan wants us to go into business. And I. And I. That's when I left Rodney's and I said, I'm going to do something different in life. And I. I was diddling around and I didn't really have to be back to work that quick, but I was trying to figure out where I wanted to go. So Steve's a great guy, and I wanted to be. I wanted to go in business with Steve. So Steve says, let's sell bullet cars. And we built a little shop here on the property where we're at now. My dad give me an acre of ground, and I built a little 4,000 square foot shop. And that's what we started in. So we were selling bullet cars, picking them up in Indiana, putting them together, and we were selling quite a few of them. We'd sell 75 to 100 of them a year, which was quite a few in those days.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's a lot.

[Mark Richards]

And. And then. And then it got bad. It got. It went bad. A master built came along and the bullet thing slowed up and we couldn't sell a car. So make a long story short, I'm gonna fast forward here. I had Callahan to build me a car, a bull. It was a bullet car, quote, with the changes that I wanted for Rocket. Or not. I didn't know Rocket. The changes I wanted.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And we put this car together, and Davey Johnson had just came back from the Busch deal and he was trying to get a dirt ride. And Davey and I Are again, me and him's like brothers. And I know Davey well, and Davey wanted to drive, but I wasn't sure I wanted Davey to drive. So he finally called my wife at the time and my son Josh, and talked them into it because he was friends. We were all friends. And I said, okay, I'll let you drive. So we went to West Virginia Motor Speedway, and this car was new, and he won two races that day. There was double features, Stars events, which they were big events at that time. He won both races that day, Beat Donnie Moran, beat the top guys. Well, the car was different when I got home. Ray Callahan called me on Monday, and he said, that car is a lot better, but there's not going to be any more of them. Well, we sold five that day. And I said, what do you mean there's not going to be any more of them? He said, I should have never built that car. In a way, he was a little bit right, because that car kind of changed the way you drove. And back before that, there was a lot of sideways sliding through the corner, and this car had to be driven straight. You know, it was more of a dry track car.

[Kenny Wallace]

If you can, for a minute. I know this is going to be hard on your brain. What was. What was different in that car? You don't got to tell me one thing, but what was different about that car?

[Mark Richards]

We narrowed that car up. That car had a wide. The original how car, or the original Bullitt car was a wide track car. It was really wide. So we narrowed the car up three inches. We straightened the. The leaf springs were really angled, so that made them stiff. So we straightened the leaf springs up and made the car softer, made the suspension softer. And look, the Bullitt cars in the day were really great cars, but they ran fast in the mud. They didn't run fast when it was slick, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

So where the money was made.

[Mark Richards]

Where the money was made. And we changed the front end geometry. I had him to put some different spindles at that time. AFCO was big, and AFCO had a front end. And I put the AFCO front end on that car. It was way before the blue front end car. And anyhow, we built a car. And then Callahan calls me on Monday and says, there's not going to be any more of them cars. And I said, you're forgetting, I built cars. You know, I. That's. My history is building cars. And I just hired the boy that had took my place at Rodney's because Rodney had moved to Charlotte. He went in with Richard and Did the driving school thing with Barry Graham and Rodney and Barry Graham and Richard did that driving school thing together and Rodney left here and moved to Charlotte. Rodney also did a lot of stuff in the die cast business with action with Fred and all that back in the original days. But anyhow, I hired this kid that works for Rodney. Had just gradually, gradually.

[Kenny Wallace]

I want to say something about that. It blew my mind that such an incredible dirt racer. I mean Rodney Combs back then was equal to Bloomquist Moyer and all of a sudden one day just he's selling diecast cars. I high end and I admire Rodney and I know Rodney. It. I just wanted to say that it just. We all change in life but we change.

[Mark Richards]

And Rodney, Rodney had done very well in Australia and he had done well. He took WRC to Charlotte and I think he sold out to Pete Pistones son or son in law or somebody. Ended up buying WRC off of him. And then he started that driving school with Richard and Barry Graham from Australia. And then he sold out of that to Rich, the bush team and everything. He sold out and got his portion out of it and then he went to Florida and kind of semi retired and that's how he got back into the die cast thing. And that's what he does today. Rodney's 10 years older than me. That's. I always know how old Rodney is because I know it's right at 10 years. So.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right. So how do we get to now? Now we need to get to Rocket Chassis.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. So Steve and I go in business in 86 and we called it Mark Richards Racing. We sold bullet cars. So now Callahan's not going to build these cars. This is where we're at. Callahan's not going to build these cars. And I'm like, you're forgetting I built cars. Well, I just hired this kid that worked for Rodney and he's. I gotta say he is another piece of this company that since Rocket Chassis started he's a big piece of it.

[Kenny Wallace]

He's still there.

[Mark Richards]

We built over 6200 cars since that in 1991. Over 6200.

[Kenny Wallace]

I like this. I will say that loud and proud. I had, you know, I, I did my studying on you. You were two pages. I was you know, at 5,000. So now you're at 6,200. Are you okay? This is. Let's hold, let's hold it for a minute here. Are you now the number one D. Have you surpassed C.J. rayburn? Have you surpassed at how. Where are you at? I know I Think the biggest. Where you at?

[Mark Richards]

I don't know what kind of records they had. I know. I kind of know what GRT did, and I kind of know what Callahan did with the bullet thing that I think they were close to 3,000 when they went out. And I don't know if there was any records kept of the Rayburn thing. So I'm not going to claim that. I'm not going to claim that we're bigger. But you got to realize, Kenny, we've been doing this for over 30 years. And there was years we were building over 300 cars a year in the heyday.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you're.

[Mark Richards]

You're the biggest.

[Kenny Wallace]

Now I'm gonna brag on you. So Larry Shaw is a very good friend of mine, and Larry built that mod about four years ago. Never raced it, but he put 5,000 on it. He said, kenny Wallace. I talked. I talked to Shaw every week or so, and he said, kenny Wallace, I just outdid Ed Howe. I said, what are you talking about? He goes, 5,000. So everybody respond right here, right now, in my opinion, you are the number one most built dirt car in the history of dirt racing. I wanted to brag on you. That's. That's my results. So go ahead.

[Mark Richards]

So we hire this kid and there's three of us, and we're actually going. When. When Callahan says there's not going to be any more of them cars. I was at a crossroads because I was a quarter of a million dollars in debt. I had no cars sold except the five I sold that day with that car winning. And now he says, we're not going to build these cars. So I walked out in the shop and Steve Baker was there and Scott Perky. This is the guy that works for me. Scott Perkey. Scott Perky. I said, we got two options. I said, we got. I had no inventory. $2,000 would have covered my inventory. I owed a quarter of a million dollars in debt, and I had to make the decision to go to work.

[Kenny Wallace]

Listen to this, kids. Listen to these kids.

[Mark Richards]

I look, in any time there's a small business, Kenny, somebody has to make a decision, and it's usually a serious decision. In order for that business to be successful, somebody has to make that decision. So I went out in the shop and I. And I got Steve, my partner, and Scott, the only employee we had and the only guy getting a paycheck, because you got to realize Steve, and I wasn't even getting a paycheck paycheck. I was selling used cars, used trucks, trying to make enough money for Steve and I to live. On top of that, we had. We took the racetrack over across the street, and it was like Brian Shirley selling cars.

[Kenny Wallace]

So you go race dirt cars.

[Mark Richards]

Well, and we took the racetrack over, and we were doing fairly well with the racetrack. And Steve and I wasn't taking no money out of the company. And the only person was getting paid was Scott. He was the only guy getting a check from Mark Richards racing at that time. Well, Davey drove the car, won those two races. He said, that thing comes off the corner like a rocket. I said, there's our name. Love it. So Davey actually dubbed the name the day the name came from Davey Johnson dubbing rocket chassis. And we started, and I told the guys, I said, look, we got two choices. Either I declare bankruptcy, we declare bankruptcy, or we get to work. And they said, let's go to work. So there was three of us, and I built. I stayed there on Thanksgiving weekend in 1991 and finished the first car. And when that. When Scott and Steve came back on Monday, I had the car done. The first rocket. The ridge, the original first rocket. Car number one, Serial number number one. And, you know, we had no idea what was going to happen because it was new territory for us at that time. I mean, I'd built cars prior to that, but not heading into a direction where it's going to become a business like it ended up being. So the first year, we sold like 60 cars. And, you know, Ray Callahan was right. I got to give him credit that he felt like those cars was going to be hard to change the way people drives because people drove sideways.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Shaking on entry.

[Mark Richards]

And you remember the days of guys like Ed Dixon and guys like that back in the day, they knew sideways, Violent, violent. So these cars wouldn't run sideways, they'd spin out. So I. It took me about a year and a half or two years to figure out how to keep them from spinning out. Number one, the steering was too slow. That was one of the biggest things that we changed was speed of the racks up, because back then it was a two and a half inch rack. So the guy was, you know, sawing on the wheel like crazy trying to keep up with this thing and couldn't keep up with it. So we shortened the steering arms. There was a lot of stuff that we'd done in the day to get it to where we could race these things. And by, I'm going to say, two, three years later, we're building 150 to 200 cars a year, and people's coming. We got. We're starting to get, you know, all kinds of guys in our cars. And then tim hick comes along and we're running a house car program with him in 1992. It started a year after we started building cars. I didn't have any money. He didn't have any money. I said, look, I'll furnish a car. You furnish a motor. We buy an old junk van and an old junk trailer. We start racing. Well, about 1996, the dirt late model industry was starting to change because we were starting to get a lot more people paying attention, A lot more people building these cars. We had grt in the business. We had master build in the business. Callahan was starting to get out of the business because his son got. His son got sick and. And ended up dying at a young age. I mean, Brett passed away, and his son was the. The key to that business. So this kid that works for me now is welding, Helping me weld these cars up through the 90s. And by the late 90s, I'm starting to get to where I'm out of the welding part. And now Scott's taken that over and we've hired somebody to weld with him. One thing I want to say about Scott Perky, over 6200 cars, he's welded on every one of them.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's amazing. Scott perky, ladies and gentlemen. Remember that name.

[Mark Richards]

He's welded on every one of those cars that has been built.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's a tough man, because I call that foundry work, you know, rusty mike and myself. Dingleberries in your ears. Got to be a professional welder.

[Mark Richards]

Scott is one of the most efficient guys I know. It would take two to three people to keep up with him and do what he does, what he's done over the years, because he's constant motion, like he's working as he's going to do something else. He's making something else happen. So he might be nauseous. A piece of tubing over here, cutting a piece of tubing, and over here, bending a piece of tubing. All three jobs going on at once one time. So it's just hard to find people that have that kind of drive. And he's got that ed hal demeanor about him. Like he's serious guy, you know, he doesn't. And. And some people get offended by the way that, you know, that type of personality is. You understand what I'm saying? They don't understand. Yeah, I wanna.

[Kenny Wallace]

I've heard everything out there. I've heard that you're a hard ass. When I was around Larry Phillips and my brother Rusty, there was no time for any.

[Mark Richards]

You, you know, Larry. Well, right.

[Kenny Wallace]

So, I mean, I watch somebody come up to Larry Phillips at Springfield, you know, I'm maybe nine years old. Larry, give me your autograph. And Larry turn around and say, boy, here's a dime. Go call someone care. I don't got no time for you right now. I grew up with my feelings getting crushed. Nobody hurts my feelings, you know, Mark. Nobody. I grew up.

[Mark Richards]

I don't mean to hurt. I don't mean to hurt feelings, but what a lot of people took and didn't understand. And if you listen to what I'd said, Steve and I didn't have any money. We're almost bankrupt. When you're at that point. Yeah, serious, Serious. Because you could go on, you could go under. And I kept my nose to the grindstone. And when Josh was here and my son drove and, you know, he had a very successful career in dirt cars. That was just me and Josh and one other guy. We ran this race team out of here. We didn't have any other help. And we work. Look, I work seven days a week because to run a race team at the level we're trying to race, even. Well, we race today. We were trying to do that in 2008, 2009, when Josh. Josh started in 04. So I can say 04. We were trying to do that. And I didn't have any money to pay help. So you work your butt off if you want to make it. And back in those days, I was still working like I was at Ed Howes. You know, work for a couple days, not go to bed, right. And, you know, I did all the jobs and then get in the truck and drive the truck to Kansas City or wherever it may be, Nebraska or South Dakota, and take my kid racing because you got to realize my kid never raced anything except a dirt late model car. He never raced a go kart. He never raced a great car. He never raced a modified. He climbed in the first day. Steve Francis was driving for me, and Josh never did ask to get in the car. And he'd come in one day after school on this four wheeler on two wheels, 15 years old, riding around us. We're in the infield, practicing across the street at the dirt track across the street that we was running. And I said, hey, you want to drive that car? And he said, I don't care. I don't care. I said, we'll get in there and drive it. You Got to realize he grew up with me and was on the road with me from the time he was 5, 6 years old. So he understood racing.

[Kenny Wallace]

He absorbed the knowledge without teaching.

[Mark Richards]

He absorbed way more of it than I thought he did, right? But at the racetrack, he was driving a pack car at six years old. He wanted to drive a pack car six years old. And I seen he could do it. I got out one day and I said, there you go. He ran for two hours at 6 years old. Now, who put. I mean, what kid gets in a car at 6 years old? A full size car, an old run in car that we ran the track in with and drive for two hours.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's when you knew you had something special.

[Mark Richards]

Well, so he gets in this car with Francis that day. Francis had been practicing. He gets in the first lap. He was within four tenths of Steve. And about six or eight laps later, he was right there at Steve speed. And Steve turns around and looks at me. Steve will verify all this. He said, there's your next driver. I said, yeah, you might be right. I said, it looks like it. So Bart Hartman drove for me the next year.

[Kenny Wallace]

Bard Hartman, man, what a name.

[Mark Richards]

He drove the house car. And Josh, we was dragging him along, and when I was home, I'd take him local racing. And by the time he was six, eight races into it, he. He could go run an outlaw race and make the race like with 70 cars there. And we did that at Lernerville. Six races into it, there were 77 cars there. You know, I take Josh on the road that first year, and Bart sees he's starting to run as good as Bart and beating Bart some nights. And Bart's like, at the end of the year, he said, look, man, you just. He was really great about it. He said, you need to take him racing. So the next year was our first year out on the road, and he won rookie of the year. And he won his first world of outlaw race the next year at Lebanon Valley over in New York. He won over there at Howie Commander's track. And that was Josh's first win. Because he didn't run local, we had him out running the Outlaws 25 races into his career. He was on the road with us. So he grew up quick and. And raced a lot and won a lot of races in his career and won championships. He won five or six national championships. And, you know, he just decided that he wanted to do something different in life.

[Kenny Wallace]

I am jacked up about the race at Sonoma, especially Tyler Redick in the number 45 car. Man, that race zigs and zags. They got a tight 180 degree corner right before you come to the start and finish line up the hill, down through the S's. Any moment you're thinking they're going to run off course. Man, I love Sonoma. The thrill of race day. Sonoma meets the non stop excitement of Chumba Casino. High energy, full throttle and always a good time. Chumba Casino is a social casino where you can always play for free. No purchase needed. Claim free coins every day with daily boosts. Play over 200 games with new ones released weekly. The social live casino brings the energy. Play blackjack, roulette, live slots or baccarat alongside live host and real players. No downloads needed. Just click play and have fun anywhere anytime. With over 1 million players. Play for free at chumbacasino.com free welcome bonus at sign up 2 million free gold coins and 2 free sweeps coins. Follow Chumba Casino on social or login every day for free daily coins. No purchase necessary. VGW group void where prohibited by law. See TNC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. If you're alignment in charge of keeping the lights on, Grainger understands that you go to great lengths and sometimes heights to ensure the power is always flowing. Which is why you can count on Grainger for professional grade products and next day delivery. So you. You have everything you need to get the job done. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. I have to talk to you about you and your boy. I know you love your son very much.

[Mark Richards]

Oh yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

When my wife and myself got married, Father John who married my wife and myself, he said, be careful. Competition will kill you. You know, I've broke out in hives before, you know, worried about, you know, doing good in my career. So. Father John's right. Be careful. Competition will kill you. Me and my brother Rusty, we have been in knockdown drag outs. I mean, it's. It's been brutal stuff I don't want nobody to see. So knowing you love your boy so much, Josh, and knowing you've done it all, I mean, when you look at your boy's stats, they're hall of fame. I mean, your boy is one of the greatest erasers of all time. It's all there is to it. That's where I've been scrolling right here. You know, he's like you said, you. You nonchalantly said he's five champions now. These aren't These are big ones. So for everybody, you know, let's d. What, did your boy just get burnt out? Is. Is that what happened?

[Mark Richards]

I. I think because he started at a such a young age, like I said six years old. He was in the truck with me running all over the country.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And, and he never got a child really to be a kid. Does that make sense?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And like he never went to the, he never went to the prom. He never did a lot of stuff that normal kids was doing, nor did he want to either. Wanted to be with me and he wanted to be on the road. He wanted to be racing. I never will forget the first year he drove. He almost won the national up at Cedar Lake and that was the first year. And he beat Bloomquist in the heat race by half track and they end up doing a crazy pill draw for a dash. And well, make a long story short, I'll go into it. He starts 15th in this race. Dale McDowell's leading the race. Josh catches him with like eight laps to go for set. He's second and catch Dale McDowell and he'd never been to Cedar Lake and it's the first year he drove, ended up breaking an axle tube off. He lost brakes. The axle didn't break clear off. The axle stayed in. But he, he lost his pedal because the, the wheel was moving back and forth and he lost his brakes. So when it was over, like the last five laps or so. So when it was over, I said, how did you know how to drive that car? He said, I drove it just like Davey drove it when he won here in 2000 in our car. Now that was 2005. And in 2000, Davey Johnson won the race. And he was in the infield with me at 12 years old, walking around the infield. And here he is going to win a. A race at Cedar Lake the first year he drove because he, he was watching.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

So he got. I mean he spent a lot of time like me. I've made a lot of sacrifices. I'm going 200 nights a year still today. And that takes sacrifices to do that. You got. You gotta make your mind up. This is the direction that you're going. And you know, not every, it's not for everybody, I can tell you that. It's not cut out for everybody. And people ask me today, why are you still doing it? And truthfully, the love I had for the sport and the passion I had is the reason that I did it for so long. Now it's my business and I. It's A, it's a necessary evil because somebody has got. In order for us to build cars, somebody's got to be out there proving the cars. And, you know, that makes it a tough deal just to say that you're going to quit because nobody's going to do it like you do it. You know what I'm saying? Nobody's going to. If I did this with another team, that team's not going to feel comfortable giving that information to other competitors. So when I, you know, gather information and we do data and we do all the stuff we do, I can do whatever I want with it because it's what we did, not what another team did. So that's why we still run this program. I'm 63. I've been doing it since I was 13.

[Kenny Wallace]

So you inspire me. I'm 60. And they, they want to know why the hell I'm still doing this. And I said, I asked, I asked, you know the great Don Pradome, the drag racer, Walker Evans, you know, 12 time off road champion. I said, hey, I'm thinking about quitting. Both of them were drinking together. Don Perdom, Walker said, come up out of their lawn chair. And they said, no. The Snake said, I miss drag racing so much. Walker said, I. I won my Last championship at 62. So, Mark, I hear you. I think what you're saying is if you quit, you die. You, you know what, you die.

[Mark Richards]

And that's with anything. I see people, you know, that works their whole life to retire. And around here, the coal mining was the big industry around here. And coal miners would say, you know, I can't wait to retire. Usually about two years max.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Okay, let's change everything right now. Let's change the whole dynamics of, of this conversation. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. This is gonna be fast paced, so, so keep up with me. This is going to be weird, different for you. Okay? I just want you to comment on this when I say it to you. Dirt racing's changed. Nobody even welds anything on their cars anymore. You just buy everything bolt on 100. Okay? That's good stuff. Plus, I didn't like welding anyway because it, it hurts me. The Dingleberries. Yeah, I love Bolton on my car nowadays. That's awesome. Okay, another one. Dirt racing and rocket chassis go hand in hand together. This is me. You guys need each other. You need the world of outlaws, you need Lucas Oil, you need all the divisions. Do you all go hand in hand? Do you all need each other?

[Mark Richards]

We all need each other, right so.

[Kenny Wallace]

We don't need to get rid of any divisions. We want everybody.

[Mark Richards]

No, we. We need the divisions. Because if it becomes one division, then what happens is there's less travelers. So when you have a big show like the world 100 or the dream, there's less guys that are going to be competitive at that level. And, you know, if you narrowed it down and let's just say there was just the world of outlaws and no. Okay, now you got whatever the points is, is what you're going to have following. If they're paying 12 spots at the end of the year, you're going to have 12, maybe 13 or 14. That's going to be it. If there's a rookie hanging out there in 13th, that's going to get a rookie check. You're going to have 12 to 13 cars. But if. If Lucas has got spots paying 12 over here and Lou and world outlaws has got spots paying 12. You got 24 cars out there that are national cars.

[Kenny Wallace]

Instead of 12. Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Instead of 12. And you race, the better you get.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Mark Richards]

Do it. The. The great. There's one. Something I want to say. My best. One of my best friends is not far from you right now, and that's.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, Eddie.

[Mark Richards]

Well, schrader's. Schrader's one of my best friends. But Ed told me. He said, richard, this is. When he tells me stuff, it's like fixing my brain. You know what I mean? Yeah. So he told me this, like, three, four years ago. He said, there's three things you need to make a race team good. And I said, oh, yeah, what's that? A drive, a great driver. You need a great crew with a leader, and you need a lot of money. Now, he didn't mention cars, motors, shocks, nothing. And really, when you look at that, that is what makes a race team successful, because the race team will get whatever they need with the money. Yeah, but it takes somebody to lead that crew, and you got to have a great crew, and it takes a great driver. Those are the three things that you need tomorrow.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm eddie. Eddie Petrov has four St. Louis Cardinal baseball tickets. He's in the green seats. And. And he. He gave me four. So tomorrow I'm going to the ball day because of Eddie. He's so nice. Okay. How is dirt racing doing today?

[Mark Richards]

I think on the national level, really doing great. I think on the local level, I think there's a lot of promoters, and we see it all the time. We're losing racetracks. You know, I look at it like A lot of ponds with a lot of fish. If you think about having a lot of fish ponds with a lot of fish in it and you take a pond away, where does that fish go?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, go to the next one.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. Now you take another pond away, where do them fish go?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And pretty soon there isn't enough in that pond for them to eat. And that's what ha. That's where we're at today. On the local level. I think I'm probably going to get. I, I gotta watch how I say this, but we've got a double edged swords going on with the streaming and all the stuff. It's a double edged sword. It's made the top level great, but it's hurt the lower level. And we have no more heroes in this sport. And local heroes, yes, When I say heroes locally, when Ed Dixon was the hero over there around St. Louis, you know what I'm talking about?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Oh yeah. My brother Mike.

[Mark Richards]

Racetrack. When you went to the racetrack and you watched that guy win, you thought he was the greatest guy out there. Yeah. What we have now is we have this streaming and there's a local guy winning a race somewhere at some little racetrack and the guy's sitting in the grandstands watching a world of outlaw race or Lucas race and sees Bobby Pierce win this race. Well, he's watching some guy here. There's no way this guy could run with Bobby Pierce. I just watched this race. Okay. We have killed the local heroes with, with the, with the streaming and the access to make fans national fans.

[Kenny Wallace]

I, I'm really glad you said that without me asking you because that's what I hear all the time. You know, they were basically hoping the late models would be killed off here in St. Louis because we got, we got i55 Raceway and they did not race him anywhere. And we only had 22. There's. They're still barely alive. But we don't have Eddie Dixon no more. We don't have Kevin Gundaker, we don't have Mike Wallace.

[Mark Richards]

No local heroes.

[Kenny Wallace]

No stoolers, no local heroes. And what you said is like, I see it all the time. I'm at a damn baseball game and I'm right there and there's the batter and somebody's on their phone. I'm like, no, you're at the game. Jughead who helps me, he helps me. And he's in my trailer and he's on his phone. I said, what are you doing? He says, I'm looking at the car count. The heat race at Farmer City. I said jug Ed, we're here. It is.

[Mark Richards]

Don't matter, Kenny. My guys do it, too.

[Kenny Wallace]

What the hell Deal with that.

[Mark Richards]

The whole race. We, I, I. I'm not sure we haven't overlooked everything in life with these phones. And I'm sure you've probably seen that cartoon. Nobody sees Sasquatch anymore. You want to know why everybody's looking at their phone?

[Kenny Wallace]

It's the damnest thing ever seen.

[Mark Richards]

Because nobody's looking out into the field or out into the, you know, the woods. You don't see anything anymore because everybody's staring at their phone. I find myself doing it. You probably yourself doing it. Oh, I'm guilty of it.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's the only way I've kept my.

[Mark Richards]

Career going back up 25 years. And you asked me how racing is, I'd tell you it's the greatest thing going.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Right now, I can tell you the national level, really strong. But one of the things that's came along with this is it's when you put money into something and you make it to where you're racing for more money. It just costs more money, and that's where we're at. The local tracks can't keep up because they can't pay more money. But in order for the late models to go there and be competitive, it takes $125,000 car.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

So how do you justify that? Now that $125,000 car running out there at the national level is pretty much the norm. But along the way, and I told Michael Rigsby this and Michael Rigsby are great friends. So I can say it. He knows I say it all the time. This streaming will kill it all. And I told him that 17 years ago.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I just had him started when.

[Mark Richards]

It started 17 years ago. And, and him and I. Because I know Michael from the time he started to where he's at today and, you know, because I'm around racing and we became friends and we're still friends. I'm not sure we haven't hurt the overall picture. Now they'll argue, argue and say, well, we got all these fans online, but what about the local guy at farmer city or the local guy down at Peebley? The local promoter, you know, he doesn't have all those fans in the stands like he had because we got, we got. Don't, don't take this the wrong way when I say it. I don't want the public to take it the wrong way. It's just the way I say things. We have lazy race fans. Kenny It's a lot of work to go to a dirt race. Yeah, it's a lot of work. You gotta drive there. You got to go up there to set the stands and get you something to eat. If you got kids. It's expensive. All right, so back home, an hour and a half, two hours. That's a lot of work, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. When you can sit on your ass on your couch and just watch it on your phone.

[Mark Richards]

Watch it on your phone. You can be doing other things, like you said at a baseball game or a football game or whatever, and get to watch the race as well. It's not a secret. I mean, the property becomes more valuable because the promoter's not making any money. So he gets an offer that's more valuable than what he can do with the racetrack.

[Kenny Wallace]

I have no idea how Farmer City stays afloat. I'll look up there. They'll have nine or ten late models, and faker wins the feature. And I see plenty times our tracks have eight or nine cars each. I mean, right now, 20, 24. Okay, let's move on.

[Mark Richards]

There was a race in Paducah the other night.

[Kenny Wallace]

Schrader told me about it. Go ahead.

[Mark Richards]

Eight cars there for 5,000 to win.

[Kenny Wallace]

And Fager wins it.

[Mark Richards]

What?

[Kenny Wallace]

What was that all about?

[Mark Richards]

There just ain't no local cars. That's what it's all about.

[Kenny Wallace]

$5,000 to win.

[Mark Richards]

It was 5,000 to win, and there was eight.

[Kenny Wallace]

A lot of money.

[Mark Richards]

But in today's world, is it a lot of money?

[Kenny Wallace]

No, it's not. It's not because of inflation. We got this whole inflation deal. I know about your price, but what's a 4 by 8 sheet of aluminum now?

[Mark Richards]

I don't know nothing about price. Yeah, I. I got. I was down in the shop the other day, and I was looking for something, and I was back in one of the rooms where there was stuff, and I pulled these. I pulled this box out, and it had some catalogs in there from 2003 and 2004. It was rocket chassis catalogs. And I put them out on Twitter. They're on my Twitter. I took pictures. Yeah, a bear frame.

[Kenny Wallace]

I saw them.

[Mark Richards]

2004 was 3, 100. That frame today is close to 11,000.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, that's inflation. The cost of metal and aluminum.

[Mark Richards]

Talking 20 years, Kenny. And a complete car, a complete late model car was 16,9. Yeah, that same car today is probably.

[Kenny Wallace]

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[Mark Richards]

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[Kenny Wallace]

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[Mark Richards]

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[Kenny Wallace]

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[Mark Richards]

What I seen in him was a guy that really wanted it. I mean, what I. I would watch him and he was in a greasy old uniform, had one crew guy, and here he is like 17 years old, driving this truck all the way to Cedar Lake. And Josh won the race that year, which it was a national, and he almost beat us in the heat race. And then he broke and he ended up starting in the back of the race and he's up there battling us for second. And Josh was talking about going and spending a year driving the nationwide stuff. Okay. So I started, had to look for a driver. And I'm looking around and this guy has really impressed me. Now there's places that I learned about drivers that experience is important. And when I say experience in different conditions, different track configurations, different parts of the country, experience you've traveled around, you know, tracks are different.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

What's in Illinois in that black dirt isn't the same. What's in eastern Pennsylvania over there on them big half miles like Williams Grove and places like that. So I made a deal with Brandon to come here. I made him stop in Indianapolis. I said, you stop out there and get a new uniform off of Simpson. He had this greasy old uniform. And. And those days, Brandon Shepard would have slept underneath of the hauler outside in a rainstorm to drive this car. That was Brandon Shepard. And that's what I Liked about Brandon and Ed Petrov helped me. My car had Petrov on the front of it on the nose. Take Brandon Shepard racing that first year. Well, we started with the Outlaws because Josh went nationwide racing. And we started with the Outlaws. And I realized this kid don't have the experience. We took him to a couple tracks up in Pennsylvania, and he didn't have experience. Like, he had no idea how to race this tan, dusty dirt like we have over here in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, New York, and over this way, red, dusty, slick dirt. Well, he'd raced in that black dirt out there in Illinois and was really good. So I made my mind up that we went to a couple outlaw races and I seen that he needed some experience. So I thought, well, you will spend this year. We'll take off from the Outlaws and we'll go race the summer nationals. We raced that whole summer nationals. The hottest summer nationals ever in the history of summer nationals. Right? It was. It was over. It was over a hundred, if you remember, right, that year.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, yeah, like.

[Mark Richards]

Like 14 days. It was over 100. And you know, we actually canceled Lincoln because it was too hot to race the hell. It was the hell hell tour that was. But anyhow, by the end of the year, we missed the outlaw races. I was taking him back to outlaw races. And by the end of the year, we had Brandon outlaw races. So he. Josh is coming back from the nationwide deal. So 13. Josh has an incredible year. He won almost 700,000 in 2013. Won 28 out of 60 races. 60 some races. And we had an incredible year. And Brandon went back and ran the house car or the family car. Not the house car, but the family car, the beefhot car. Stevie ran the grandpa's car. And anyhow, he ended up going to best. Best put him out there on the road getting experience. I got him experience. Then he went back to the grandpa car and got experience. And then best put him out running the Lucas Steel. And the second year at best, he won the dirt track world championship. He come in my trailer and he was terrible. He was like 20th in the B main. And I said, what are you doing? And he told me what he was doing. And I'm like, just bring all that stuff over here. I'll set it up just where our car is. Because Josh was the fastest qualifier, won the heat and everything. Well, this shepherd starts like 10th in the B main, drives up through there and wins it.

[Kenny Wallace]

After you help him, he drives up.

[Mark Richards]

Through there and wins it. And then Josh is leading this race. And Brandon's Coming through the field, Josh tears the nose off when the tires in the infield. So Brandon ends up winning the race. And he told me, he said, I'm quitting tonight when the race is over. And anyhow, Josh ended up third. We got was dragging the nose, and we ended up running third with Josh. And Brandon wins this race and he gets out that car and quits. Wow.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

But now Brandon Shepard has a whole lot more experience than he had in 2012.

[Kenny Wallace]

Now he's really ready for your car.

[Mark Richards]

So then Josh decides he's going to move to Ohio near Aldor, which is where he lives now. And that's where his wife was from. And now Josh is going to drive the best car. And then I called Brandon and I said, hey, you want to come and drive this stuff? And he said, what's he doing? And I said, he's going to drive the best stuff. And he said, no, I'm going to call him because I'm going to tell him he needs to stay there. Well, he called me back and he said, josh says he's moving to Ohio and his wife is from that area and that's where she wanted to live. Should he live 25 minutes from the best team? From where Bess was from, that's where his house is. So anyhow, Brandon started driving for us. In the first year, we won all kinds of races. In the second year, we won all kinds of races. And to make a long story short, since 2016, it's been eight, eight seasons. Up until the beginning of this season, this team's won over $6 million. And that was, averaging, up until last year, averaging about a little over 700 a year. But you still can't make money at that. A lot of people looks at that, man, you made all kinds of money. Well, that's not enough to cover it. You got to have great sponsors.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm going to.

[Mark Richards]

Sponsors.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me stop right here. I'm going to mark this down. I'm going to have Charlie Marlowe. We're going to. We edit pieces of this to get to the good part. So we're going to start right now at 112 and I'm going to ask you the question. Last year I created controversy by saying race car drivers cannot make money. And of course, you know, I don't want to call them rednecks. I'm brutal. I'm brutal because he was brutal to me. So you're going to catch it from me. You cannot make money racing dirt unless you have sugar daddies, people that you know, own coal mines and construct hoker. And you know, Petrov, that's the only way you can make it. Now, I want to hear your opinion on what I just said.

[Mark Richards]

Well, I think we're no different than the NFL. Okay. When it really boils down to it, how many NFL players that make it to the NFL actually make a lot of money? Yeah. How many is there that really makes a lot of money? How many Tom Brady's is there in the country? How many Peyton Mannings is there?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

You know, over the decades, a lot of NFL players make whatever the minimum is.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Okay, maybe 400, 000 a year. And then by the time you pay taxes, they might make 200, 000 for.

[Mark Richards]

And their manager takes a part of it. And the cost of living for them to live that lifestyle, they got a lot of expense, and they end up.

[Kenny Wallace]

Being a cup crew member for pit stops.

[Mark Richards]

Yeah, well, racing's not much different. And the. The few drivers that make it to where you can, quote, make money are. It's. It's a slim number. It's way less than people wants to think it is. And I know you know, it's. It's way less. And you're right. It takes what Ed Petrov tell us. Takes money, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Mark Richards]

Takes money. This team never had money. And difference that I feel like I've been here all these years and through the hard times, the good times, whatever. But to give you a number, today, this team, I don't even count the cars. So let's take the cars out of the picture. Okay. Because it's rocket chassis. Okay. Cars belong to rocket chassis.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. It takes me about 700 a year to keep this team going.

[Kenny Wallace]

$700,000. And that does not count the race cars.

[Mark Richards]

Okay.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

So last year, we won 1,035,000. That's what we took in total gross.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Now, I just told you it took 700 to break even. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

You dominated and made 300 grand.

[Mark Richards]

You got to listen. You're not getting it.

[Kenny Wallace]

I know. I'm good.

[Mark Richards]

The driver and the crew gets 50 of it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah, we're still going.

[Mark Richards]

Wow. Now we're down. Now I won a million dollars, and I've lost 200,000 without my sponsor help.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. So let's say that you go through a year and you don't make a million. Let's say you make 600,000.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. I told you I need 700 right now. I took in 600. All right. I get half of that. Wow. Now I'm at 300. So now I'm down 400. The driver got his percentage out of it. Out of that 600, probably got off the top of my head around 200 and something. I'm down 400. So the sponsorship money is very important. That's where it comes from at this level. So that makes it hard. And. And, you know, you know, I just went through a driver change, and you know that. And when you look at the roster and you take what I look at with a driver, first of all, he's got to have car control. He's got to be able to drive. That's number one. Number two is experience. How much experience has he had at all these different tracks that we're going to go to that somebody already paid for? Because I don't want to be the guy paying for experience. I did it with Brandon Shepard in 2012. I did it with Josh Richards back in 05. I don't want to pay for it. I want to find somebody that has raced all these races, that has been to Granite City, has been to Peebley, that has been to Cedar Lake, has been to Fairbury, has been to Lincoln, Pennsylvania, not Lincoln, Illinois. Williams Grove, Gaffney, South Carolina.

[Kenny Wallace]

I want to brag on you. Yeah, I want to brag on you. So Joe Gibbs hired Joey Logano, struggled, was not ready to be cupped. Then Roger Pensky said, I'll take him because now he's ready.

[Mark Richards]

Because he got experience.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Mark Richards]

Somebody paid for that experience.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, Joe Gibbs. Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

When this last driver change happened, believe me, I didn't want it to happen. I was not ready for it. Okay, I'm just gonna leave it there, and we're just gonna say I wasn't ready. And, yeah, it took me like the. The one before that was Shepard, I was ready for. I'd made my mind up. I'd looked at it, and Hudson o' Neill was my guy. Because Hudson o' Neill had a lot of experience for his age. At 22 years old, he had raced almost seven years at the Lucas level across the country. And somebody paid for him to get that experience, same as I did with Brandon Shepard back in 2012. 2012. Ed Petrov, one of my. I gotta say, one of my best friends in racing over the years. We may not talk to each other for six months, but I guarantee you he knows he can call me, and I know I can call him. That's how you know you've got a friend, Kelly Earnhardt.

[Kenny Wallace]

Kelly Earnhardt said, kenny Wallace, I like you. You're a no maintenance friend. And that's what I like. I like that. Because we don't need to talk, but I have you.

[Mark Richards]

We just know we're friends, and. And I feel that way a little bit about you. I know you a little bit, but I know I can call you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Mark Richards]

Text each other a lot. We know who our friends are. So when the press releases went out, we had a driver to fill the seat. Brandon Shepherd's leaving. Hudson o' Neill's coming in. What I wasn't ready for was this time because I was caught off guard completely. And I'm gonna say, you know when Richard Childers. When Tyler Reddick said he was leaving.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

You know what happened?

[Kenny Wallace]

Not really, but tell me.

[Mark Richards]

But what happened was he was going to drive the rest of the year.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay.

[Mark Richards]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. I'm not going to go into it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. So I'm left here. Yeah. What I'm gonna do. Yeah. And I look at the roster. Lucas, World of Outlaws. Who's been at these races? Who can you get? That list is small. That has experience.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

That can win. Right. Guys. That can win and has experience. All right, that narrowed it down. Well, what. I wasn't ready for that. That happened on a Tuesday, within, I'm going to say, 16 hours. 18 hours. I wasn't ready for.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

My phone was going crazy.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Because the word had got out. At one time, I looked at my phone, I had 50 texts that I hadn't opened, and I had over 30 phone calls that I had I'd missed.

[Kenny Wallace]

And everybody did they all. Did they say, I want number one? Did they say, I want to drive your car? Or number two, did they say what happened? What? What? What? Which one was.

[Mark Richards]

I never answered because my main goal was to get to my sponsors and talk to my sponsors and get a plan together, which a lot of people doesn't understand. The sponsors are number one in this business because without them, I can't do it. I'm not gonna lose 200, 400 grand a year because I can't afford to. I'm not a guy that has a business that sold out for millions of dollars that I can just do this to play. I got. This is how I. I got here, by running it like a business, and I got to keep running it like a business because I don't. I don't have another business that I made money from to be in this business. Does that make sense?

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, yes, Absolutely.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. So now I talked to the sponsors, and a couple of sponsors called because they had heard it, and we kind of came up with a plan, and the list was really short of who could be on it, of whether we were going to go forward or we change our plan as a team. What we do, you know, do we come up, become an R D team, or do we become. Or do we still stay out there and try to campaign a car on the Lucas deal? Well, if you're going to stay on the Lucas deal, you got to have somebody that's in the points. Well, that narrows it down even more. But the biggest thing, it's got to be somebody that the sponsors will approve.

[Kenny Wallace]

Everybody likes.

[Mark Richards]

If the sponsors has a problem with this guy, it don't matter. I'm not. I can't lose a sponsor because I got to have the sponsor's money to make up the difference at the end of the year. Yeah. So it narrowed it down, really. We. We was actually down to two drivers at the end, and I'm not going to go in to say who they were, but we were down to two. So now I'm getting all these texts from all these people, and this is where I'm going to you with Mike, your brother. Oh.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, Mike calls you.

[Mark Richards]

Okay. No, no. I get a text. I get a text from Mike. Now, I haven't seen Mike since Josh ran them trucks for Kyle.

[Kenny Wallace]

Now I'm shocked right now. I can't wait to hear this.

[Mark Richards]

So I get this text, and it says, have you found the driver for the seat. For the seat of the rocket one?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And it says, would you consider an ex dirt racer, an ex nascar racer, veteran driver Mike Wallace?

[Kenny Wallace]

What in the world?

[Mark Richards]

And I laugh. I go, ha ha ha. Great to hear from you, Mike. I haven't heard from him, you know, and probably since 2010 when Josh was racing them trucks. And I'm like, great to hear from you. And he says, no, I'm serious. I would like to drive that car. And I said, well, we have picked a driver. And at that time, we'd already made the deal with Timmy. And. And he says, well, if you know of any other rides out there, you know, I would like to have a ride driving a dirt car.

[Kenny Wallace]

My brother Mike, like, this is a month ago.

[Mark Richards]

Mike Wallace.

[Kenny Wallace]

My brother Mike's 64 years old. Let me call it. Hey, brother, what you thinking?

[Mark Richards]

Well, you know, I said, he's got to be my age, because back in the 80s when I was out there, I know he was like him and Rusty was. I thought they were right. At my age, Mike was one of.

[Kenny Wallace]

The greatest Dirt racers.

[Mark Richards]

Him and Perv Mike was a great dirt race.

[Kenny Wallace]

Incredible. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

And. And, you know, I. I told him, I said, I got to tell you, this is the most surprising applicant I've had.

[Kenny Wallace]

Absolutely. I'm shocked. He might have been in the vodka that night. Well, listen, Mark, we. We're going on an hour and 25 minutes. I want to thank you so much. Let's. Let's have fun and leave like this. Out of all the dirt racers now, this is going to be difficult. I understand. But, you know, when I think about what I'm going to talk to you about, number one, I want you to tell your story. And. And we did. And we've kind of gone through, you know, dirt racing a little bit. Out of all the race car drivers, whether it's Duvall, Bloomquist, Moyer, Pierce, you name it, and it could be the dad, Bob Pierce. Out of everything you've seen, now, this is what's important. Totality. Totality means build their race cars, chassis. They're not today's drivers. Not today's drivers. I'm talking about the guys that, that, you know, chassis their cars, check their own stagger. Bloomquist, Moyer, Duvall, Buck saying, all those guys, which one. Which one makes you perk up? You're Ed Howe right? Now, which. Which was the guy?

[Mark Richards]

I mean, I.

[Kenny Wallace]

Two of them.

[Mark Richards]

I gotta. You want two, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

You. Yeah, I'm gonna give you leeway.

[Mark Richards]

Well, one of them you mentioned earlier in the show. And. And I give him all the respect in the world, which not many people's going to know. This guy, you know him? Well, I gotta say. Larry Phillips.

[Kenny Wallace]

Larry Phillips. You damn right, buddy. That man.

[Mark Richards]

I gotta say, I went to Florida with him. I was around Larry. Rodney was in Australia, and he called me up and said, hey, I want you to go to Florida with me and crew or crew on my car down there at Volusia. And I knew Larry. Larry was a lot like Ed Howe. And no bull. There was no BS with Larry Phillips.

[Kenny Wallace]

Zero.

[Mark Richards]

Let me tell you something right now. Terry Phillips grew up with a top with a tough dad.

[Kenny Wallace]

Me and Terry talk. Me and Terry, you know, I told Terry Phillips, I said, terry, the reason your dad was so mean is because he grew up poor, he had no money. And like you said, well, that's.

[Mark Richards]

That's what happens. And people don't understand that. They take that the wrong way. And maybe, you know, if you've got a goal and you want to try to achieve that goal, sometimes you can't be a nice guy. All the time. Got no time that makes sense. No time to be a nice guy. And that's what I tell people all the time. I got enough people now. I can talk. Like, I couldn't have did this show back in the day. There's no way I could have took an hour and 20 minutes and sit here and talk to Kenny Wallace. Too much crap to do. I had too much crap to do. But now I got people doing it and it, and it's loosened me up a little bit and I'm able to be, I guess, more human. Maybe that's the right word. Because I was a lot like Larry and a lot like Ed Howe. Yeah. And guys. But I think probably overall and everything that I've seen and everything, I know the guy that could build the car and go win the race, dominate the race, race after race. There's one guy. That's Scott Bloomquist.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yep. Yep. That's what, you know, I, I'm right there with you.

[Mark Richards]

You know, I say Billy Moyer, but I don't think Billy Moyer was the car builder from the ground up. Like, Scott Bloomquist was creative. I went to Scott Bloomquist's place last year. I was allowed on the compound.

[Kenny Wallace]

This is good stuff.

[Mark Richards]

For a long time, you wasn't allowed there. And, you know, after spending an afternoon. Well, a morning and an afternoon there with Scott, because I was there before the CR Crowd came and, and we had a whole crowd of people. And what I got to see out of Scott was, and I respect him for this, is he did his own thing and he built his own cars. And his dad. That's the most incredible story of visiting Scott Bloomquist.

[Kenny Wallace]

He's different, right?

[Mark Richards]

His dad's airplane inventory.

[Kenny Wallace]

I hear about this all the time. Tell me about this.

[Mark Richards]

It's crazy. It's the craziest thing I ever walked into this. This man's up in his 80s, putting these planes together from World War I. He's got all World War I planes and they all fly. He's got a whole garage full, a whole hangar full of them. He's building the, the one he's building right now is a twin engine, 101 foot wide wing spread span. He's got the wings off of it in the building, building this plane, but the planes are immaculate. Kenny. I, I, I'm like, I'm looking at this work and I'm like, he built all this stuff. Some of this stuff was built from scratch. Not even no plan. And then he's got planes that were crashed and he bought Them and rebuild them. And I'm looking at this stuff and I'm like, who did this paint work? He said, I did it. And I'm telling you, it's museum quality stuff. It's crazy.

[Kenny Wallace]

Is it fair to say. I mean this humbly and respectfully? Is it. Is it fair to say that the Bloomquist family is so smart? They're like, Elon Musk's smart, and we can't communicate with them. They're just that. Are they that ahead of us?

[Mark Richards]

I don't know. I mean, they are definitely smart. Scott and I, you know, we started the outlaw deal. Wouldn't have started if Scott and I wouldn't have got together and got those 12 drivers together. Back in 04, we actually, Scott Bloomquist and I put that together.

[Kenny Wallace]

And what was the name of that young gun?

[Mark Richards]

Dirty Dozen.

[Kenny Wallace]

The Dirty Dozen. I'll be damn. Yeah.

[Mark Richards]

Yeah. That's another. Well, yeah, that's another story for another time. We can go into. And there's a lot to that story.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're getting ready now.

[Mark Richards]

I've got a lot of respect for Scott. I think Scott will tell you he has a lot of respect for what we've done, and he's learned. He's learned more about what I've done over the years, because I think for a long time, he didn't understand who I was. And there's like, you. You didn't understand who I was, who I was, everything. Because I was in the shop and I wasn't out running around and talking and. And when I was at the racetrack, I mean, I got a lot of crap. I had a lot of crap to do because, you know, I did everything from changing the motors to grooving the tires to driving the truck to all that back in those days that we were trying to get on the ground and trying to get help. Josh left here in 2016 to move to Ohio to drive for the best team, the number one best team. And I said, you know, I told Baker, I said, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to hire help because I'm getting old enough now that I can't do it like I've been doing it. And I sure can't do it with Josh not being here, because Josh, contrary to what anybody wants to believe, he worked his butt off to do this. Yeah. And there's a lot of guys out there today that drive, that have no idea how much work that guys did 20, 25, 30 years ago to race these cars. And there's a lot of drivers that I got a lot of respect for. Bob Pierce was one of them. Bob Pierce, you know, I got all kinds of respect for Bob, and, you know, he's very fortunate. He gets to race with his kid, and his kid's one of the best drivers, if not the best driver in the country today. I'm going to say Bobby is the best driver.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I agree.

[Mark Richards]

I agree.

[Kenny Wallace]

I've said it. I've said it.

[Mark Richards]

Yes, I got all kinds of respect for Bobby. But over the years, Dale McDowell and Rick Eckert and Steve Francis and guys like that that I ran around with up and down the road, they never had big sponsors, Kenny. Racing was different. We weren't racing for as much money. And they made it happen because that's what they love to do.

[Kenny Wallace]

Made it happen. Make it happen.

[Mark Richards]

Today it's more about how much money, because it takes so much money to run these cars. I just told you 700 grand to run this car. You got to win 1.4 million to break even. So. So if you're given 50% of it back to the crew and the driver, and that's where I'm at. It takes that. If you want to have good crew and you want to have good driver, it's going to cost you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right? Well, there he is, the great Mark Richards. Mark, you're getting ready to be our longest interview ever, and it was well worth it. And we. We need to have a part two. I want to let you know that I admire you. I look up to you. Nobody has built as many dirt cars as you. 6200. You're the king of dirt super late models. If it stopped right now, you're in the hall of fame. And by the way, you need to work on those boys. They need a much better building. That should be your next project. Let's get the dirt super late model hall of Fame in a much more respectful. They got a great idea, but it's got. It's got to be a better building.

[Mark Richards]

I went in there in 2011, and. And my partner's going in this year. Steve's going in 2024. So, you know, I'm. I'm kind of excited for Steve because Steve has put his heart and soul into this, and. And you're right. It does need to be in a better building.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes. All right, well, listen, everybody. Remember, we are in podcast form. You can listen to this one on your way to work in the morning, on your way back home four times and learn all about the great Mark Richards. He innovated he run rocket chassis his whole life. We're in podcast form, itunes and Spotify. Mark, thank you so much, buddy. And I hope to see you at the next dirt track.

[Mark Richards]

All right, Kenny, thank you. I appreciate it.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's goodbye, everybody.

[Mark Richards]

Goodbye.

[Kenny Wallace]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

[Mark Richards]

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[Kenny Wallace]

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[Mark Richards]

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[Kenny Wallace]

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[Mark Richards]

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[Kenny Wallace]

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