← Herm & Schrader
Herm & Schrader
Mike Wallace: Handling Heartbreak While Living His NASCAR Dream
00:54:50
This Kenny Conversation with Mike Wallace originally aired on 9/6/2023
Loading summary
Transcript171 lines
- [00:02]
A
Early in my NASCAR career I was racing in Nashville, Tennessee. Had the whole field down one lap except for two cars. All I had to do was pit under green flag and make a nice simple pit stop and I would have won the race. So I come down pit road, they put the car on the jack and the car fell off the jack which should have been a 16 second pit stop turned into a one minute pit stop. I I lost the race and finished third. I was crushed. NASCAR is full of crazy stories. Make your race day story even More Epic with FanDuel FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, is giving all new customers a shot at $200 in bonus bets. New customers could bet $5 and get 200 bucks in bonus bets if their first bet wins. FanDuel has many ways to bet on your favorite drivers and races from from individual race winners to prop bets to which drivers are going to take home the championship. Some of the drivers that I'm keeping my eye on is the great Kyle Larson. One saying about Kyle Larson to be the man, you have to beat the man. Get in on the NASCAR action. For a chance to win big, just visit fanduel.com kenny that's fanduel.com kenny for your shot at $200 in bonus bets
- [01:25]
B
must be 21 plus and present in select states For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 in presenton D.C. first online real money wager only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit fanduel.com rg call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny in New York.
- [02:12]
C
America's Best Network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our 5 year price guarantee and now T mobile is available in US cell best mobile Network Based on analysis by Google of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network the combination of T Mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk, text and data exclusions like taxes and Fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.
- [02:41]
A
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything you need for your vehicles. Well, listen, I've got two great brothers. I'm spoiled. They love me and I know it because they've showed it to me my whole life. We've had a Kenny Conversation with Rusty and now Mike. I am so excited to have you on, brother. Thank you for being on Kenny Conversation.
- [03:16]
C
Well, it's really cool, Kenny Conversation. We know you always talk. Now you got a conversation channel.
- [03:26]
A
Well, listen, I'm going to do you identical that we did, big brother. Rusty. Going to get my glasses on here.
- [03:34]
C
Am I supposed to go get a pair of those, too? Look my age.
- [03:38]
A
No, you look good. You've always looked a little younger than me. You look great. So, you know, when we do Kenny Conversation, we remind everybody whether it's Joey Logano, whether it's, you know, Rusty or Tony Stewart. So, Mike Wallace. Mike Wallace, 1990 NASCAR Winston Series Mid American regional champion. That's a big deal. Now. Four wins in the NASCAR Xfinity Series. 497 races in the Xfinity Series. Five wins in the Truck Series. 115 races in the Craftsman Truck Series. We're coming to the end here. 197 NASCAR Cup Series races, 14 top tens. I remember some top fives in there, but in the end, 809 NASCAR starts. Brother, that. That's a lot of NASCAR racing.
- [04:49]
C
Well, it definitely was a lot of NASCAR racing. I don't think I kind of met your record. A year in the 900 or something range about that. Just to be able to say you run 800 NASCAR races are, to me, it was a big deal. You always wish you could have run more and had a better record and all that, but, man, think of all the people have never run any. So I feel fortunate.
- [05:11]
A
Yeah, I agree. I feel the same way. So when. When I read those stats off to you, kind of the same thing. I asked Rusty, you know, and I know where we come from. We come from Arnold, Missouri. We're Jefferson county rednecks. We make it to nascar. When I read those stats to you, where does your mind wander to? What. What's it make you think about?
- [05:38]
C
Well, honestly, when you mentioned the Winston racing series in 1990, you know, that was the start of everything when you think about it. Yeah, you know, we were the. As you said, we're the Arnold Rednecks, which is a pretty high class word. To use anymore. So. And Arnold's become quite the little metropolis. But, you know, 1990, I had dirt raced for many years. My wonderful closest friend, Brad Willard, at 11 in Missouri, and I got together. Brad had broke his neck in a racing incident and says, hey, you know, we got this NASCAR thing and if you can help me, I got a car I bought, but I need a motor. And so we just put the deal together and literally hermit. It was magic. You know, we won what, 22 out of 26 races that year, and second and fifth and then. And won this. At that time, I don't know that we realized how big it was. Could have been you that told me or someone years ago says, oh, you got to get a championship attached to your name. You know, you got to get a championship, whatever it is. Not just a local track championship, but, you know, we won that Winston racing series at that point. I was incredibly envious of you and Rusty. Not really, but I mean, you guys are. You were established NASCAR racers. I mean, you got. We were just kids from St. Louis and we'll say St. Louis Arnold trying to do something. Dad did it for fun and went and won that championship. And lo and behold, that championship opened the door for me to go to Martinsville later that year, you know, a month later, basically a month later. And I ran well down there and you know, then we worked really hard from there on.
- [07:26]
A
Kenny, conversation. Like I always say, I don't assume our listeners listen to every show. So we call audibles. It means we. We're all over the place. You said that Brad Willard helped you. I, I always feel like nobody can stand on top of the mountain. And I did it all myself. It just never works that way. Are you saying, are you saying Brad Willard was the turning point in your career? Did it change your trajectory? Was it Brad Willard that made it possible for you to go to nascar?
- [08:05]
C
Yeah, well, you know, as I always want to say, you want to make sure you name the people that helped you because, like, you're not going to do this yourself, you know, I think the whole Wallace family can go back to the legendary don Kern in St. Louis, Missouri. 100 don's provided motors or helped all of us along the way. He was involved in my championship winning 1990 season. Dan Altoff, who owns the nicest trucks in the. In the Missouri area, helped support it. And then Dan. Dan. And then Brad came along. And Brad, I competed against his family owned i44 Speedway, you know, and still do, right? Oh, yeah, they do. They just reopened it last Week and ran a, you know, a race down there and got it all cleaned up, looking good and everything and going to try to keep it going. But Brad says, let's try to go racing. He had bought a left hander car is what it was. He had bought a left hander chassis. He was going to race himself. And then he got it. You know, I knew Brad, but like we both agreed we didn't know each other well. He says, man, was I ever surprised. He says, I thought you were some smart ass rich kid from St. Louis.
- [09:10]
A
They all think that of us.
- [09:11]
C
And I said, well, you had the rich party. You might have the smartass, right? But didn't have the, the rich part at all, right? You know, if everybody realized how our whole family has struggled and worked really hard to get everything we got, you know, they would be shocked. But Brad took it amongst himself. And we've just. We ran one year together, okay? We ran one year together. We won the Winston racing series. We won two track championships. I44 and Bolivar USA Speedway along with those championships. And then I got an opportunity. I told him, I remember riding down the road one day, going to Bolivar. I said, man, if I, you know, you ever think you could do this right? You know, I could never short track race again. I can go NASCAR racing. Yeah. You know, and for some reason, and I remember a gentleman sitting in the backseat, Jerry worked at Consumers grocery store. I said, jerry, you know, I don't need much sponsorship money. I only need like $350,000. That's it. And he goes, mike, I could retire off of $350,000. I says, no, you couldn't. That wouldn't get you nowhere. Jerry Maguire was in Consumers grocery store. He says, 30 $350,000 at 10% is $35,000 a year. I make 28,000 a year working at Consumers. So yes, I'd have a raise on top of it. And it was funny, just you had to be in the whole conversation, just riding down the road to enjoy it.
- [10:41]
A
No, no, I totally get that. You know, listen, I'm going to say this. It's not you. It's my opinion you have always been much smarter than Rusty and myself. You've always stood out. You graduated high school early. You know, Rusty and myself, we were, you know, hardcore racers. You, you bring up numbers really well. I feel like one of the reasons that you went to NASCAR after Rusty and myself was because you really loved money. You know, Would you say I'm right or wrong about that?
- [11:22]
C
I'm going to Share a story to answer your question. And you'll love it, because we all know him. Mike Allgar. Gator.
- [11:28]
A
Gator.
- [11:29]
C
Justin Allgaier's dad. Yeah. I remember. I was down in our building in Valley park next to the one you were last in.
- [11:36]
A
Yeah.
- [11:37]
C
And I'm talking to him on the phone, and we're talking about you and Rusty.
- [11:40]
A
Yeah.
- [11:40]
C
And I remember this conversation like it was yesterday, and this was 35 years ago. He was Mike, you know, and you got to know Gator. Everybody does. He talks a little accent, and he goes, the difference between you and them boys, you won't give up what you got. You got money. And he says, you're not going to give it up to go racing. And he goes, you got to. You got to put it all on the line if you're going to go. And literally, we. We spoke about six months ago. I called to get Justin's number from. And he goes, man, all these years later, I was wrong. One night, he says, you did finally do it. But, yeah, probably. I mean, there. You got to remember that when you have a family, you got security, you got everything that the average person's looking for. Right? You got a nice home, you got a nice family, you got a little bit of money. Not crazy money. But.
- [12:27]
A
Let me stop you right there, though. This is. This is where I'm guilty. I know you so good because, you know, hell, we. We shared the same bedroom. Right.
- [12:37]
C
Got the same mom and dad, too.
- [12:38]
A
Yeah. Right. Well, I would say the big thing, though, was that, you know, we had Uncle Gary, who owned, okay, Vacuum and Janitorial Supply, and you were in charge there with Uncle Gary. You ran the commercial side. So at the time, you were making good money. And in your defense, that's hard to give up, you know, and you're running around St. Louis, and you're winning every mike. You won 11 weeks in a row at Tri City Speedway in Granite City, Illinois. So you're making really good money because you're helping run Uncle Gary's business, and you're winning everything. I mean, that's hard to give up and take a chance.
- [13:23]
C
It is hard to give up because, you know, when you say making good money, I was making money. That's considered good money today back then. So. Yeah. And it was very hard, and it was a real big challenge to want to do that. But, I don't know. I. It was a huge challenge. But it was you and Rusty, or Rusty and you that motivated me.
- [13:50]
A
Yeah.
- [13:51]
C
You know, you think about it, it's like how do you, how do you get that desire? What drives that passion? And it's like, well, I got two brothers that did it. You know, we come from the same mom and dad, we know all about this stuff. Yeah. And, and I think the driving force of it. But I, you can ask my wife Carla, she'll tell you this. I've told Brad Willard numerous people, if I didn't try it, I was going to regret it the rest of my life. I would never, you know, if I would have just stayed working in the vacuum cleaner store and janitorial supply business and never gave it a shot. Right. I would have just regretted it my whole life. It's like, you know, there you're winning races, running up front. It's like, I could have maybe done that. Well, we, we all, we went all in. And you know the crazy part about all in? Some people don't realize this or they don't know the story. And I'll share it a little bit when I talk to my uncle Gary, our loving Uncle Gary, uncle we call him. I went to him and I says, I asked him and I tell everybody the story. The few that I tell us to the same story. He had just come off of being off out of the business for one year to build a new house, right. Gone. Never came in. We surprisingly had the best year we ever had in business. And I says, this is what's going on. I got this opportunity. I says, I need you to work with me. I said, you always tell me I race too much and I don't pay enough attention to the business, but somehow we're doing okay. I says, but I got this opportunity. I says, you know, I won that Winston racing series. I went to Martinsville and I run really good and got a guy that offered me a deal. I says, I gotta try, I gotta try to be a race car driver. I said, but do this for me. Let me take off for the rest of the summer, which is going to be six months, and I'm going to try to go race. And if for some reason it doesn't work, I'll quit racing 100%, come back here and run this business and be 100% dedicated to it. And he looked me square in eye. I still remember, I can tell this. He says, no, I'm not going to support that.
- [16:02]
A
Yeah.
- [16:02]
C
And I went, damn, that wasn't. I'm thinking to myself, that wasn't the answer I was expecting, you know, not
- [16:09]
A
your, your dad's brother.
- [16:11]
C
Yeah. And I finally looked at him, I go, you're making me do something I don't want to do. I said, now I'm going to turn into a regular employee. I'm going to quit in two weeks. Well, you can't do that. I says, I am. And then he kind of got upset and he goes, well, make sure you leave your truck in your fuel card when you leave.
- [16:33]
A
And legendary shell fuel card. Legendary.
- [16:38]
C
And it's like, okay, I went home because Carla and I talked about this. And I'll be honest with you, if it wasn't for her originally going, look, I'm behind you. I don't, we don't know what we're going to do, but if you want to do it, try it. And man, what a story. Then it was sink or swim. I mean, got two children basically without a really good paying job. And I'm glad he did that because I can guarantee you 100%, unequivocally, if he would have said, okay, come back in six months, you would have never heard of Mike Wallace as the race car driver because everything went wrong in that next six months and, you know, we would have moved back to St. Louis and that would have been the end of it.
- [17:21]
A
Hey, this is Dylan Hart Jr. And for the latest Herman Schrader gear, you need to go to shop.dirdemow media.com We've got plenty of options for everybody and we're adding new stuff all the time, so go to shop.dirtymomedia.com@strayer university, we help
- [17:37]
D
students like you go from is it possible? To anything is possible by offering access to up to 10 no cost gen ed courses so you can reach your goals affordably and fast. Visit strayer Edu to learn more. No cost gen ed is provided by Strayer University affiliate sofia. Eligibility rules apply. Connect with us for details. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by shed as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
- [18:07]
A
So, Kenny, conversation is one hour. And this is a deal where, you know, we could go for six hours. But now we've established your record in NASCAR. Nine wins. 800. 800 nine NASCAR starts. That's incredible. You don't, you don't stay in NASCAR. 800 nine starts if you haven't done something right. So you did it all right. And now we've established how you left St. Louis, which that story is absolutely amazing. And here we are. So let's start Kenny conversation. What have you been up to? What is Mike Wallace? What are you doing nowadays?
- [18:52]
C
I am. It's not A smart aleck answer. It's just. I do exactly what I want to do.
- [18:58]
A
That's right.
- [18:59]
C
You know, I. Last weekend, I had nothing better to do. I flew to Miami, Florida, with Doug Herbert. We had lunch. Yeah. On Sunday, I flew to St. Louis and picked up a vehicle and drove it back. I have three wonderful grandchildren, you know, that are three miles from me. We got some real estate, and it just. It's hard to say what we do. I do a podcast, you know, it's called Fast Car to NASCAR with Mike Wallace.
- [19:26]
A
Know all about it. Very famous. And that. Good job, bro. That thanks you've been doing.
- [19:30]
C
You know, you. You've been always the. The. The saving point or the person that inspires everybody. You've been on about three times. Everybody calls and says how great it is to have Herman. And so I do that. And I think that keeps me in the loop of the race world a little bit. And I've learned a crazy amount. I've learned a lot more about the people I used to race with and around doing the podcast than I ever knew about it when I raced with them. And I don't know, I just stay busy. I stay busy and I'm never. I wake up every day with something to do, fun to do. We've had some real estate that's done very well for us, so I don't. Don't have to worry about where my next dollar is coming from. I'm okay there. Yeah. And, you know, just.
- [20:13]
A
I always tell people, you know, I brag on my brothers all the time. I always tell everybody, I have a saying for you, Mike. I tell people, I say, listen, if the world's coming to an end, you want to be with my brother Mike, because he is never in doubt, always moving and shaking. And, you know, out there in Salisbury, you've done some incredible jobs with big buildings. You've rehabbed them, you've sold them. You know, Rusty or myself. Now I got into real estate. But you've always been that way. I think you're a lot like Dad, a little bit like Uncle Gary. Where do you get that? Business, entrepreneurial. Where do you get that from?
- [21:03]
C
I don't know, Herm. I think what it amounts to, you know, there's a lot of things or there's a few changing points in my life, and it's just not about round net racing, you know, And I think, to put it in perspective, and very few people know about it. Of course you do. We're very attached to it. My wife and I lost a Child Mikey, when he was 2 years old. And that changes your whole perspective on life. My saying has been for many years, if it's changeable or fixable, it is only an obstacle of life. So what. What bothers a lot of people doesn't bother me in the least. Yeah, you know, I don't make problems out of little things. And in regards to the real estate world, which, you know, I was racing and I said, you know, I realized that was coming to an end and it didn't have a lot of money to mess with, so I went and bought old buildings.
- [21:56]
A
Yeah, you know, you're very good at it cheap.
- [21:59]
C
You know, what would be considered junk. And my son Matt, Bobby Mies, our great friend that, you know, you help, you know, you grew up around. We go down there and we. We'd physically work now, like I'd hired out, we'd physically work and take them old buildings and turn them into something and we'd rent them out. And then all of a sudden somebody go, wow, I'd like to buy that building. Here's what I offer you. And we'd look at each other and go, really? That much? So, you know, I think it's just a drive, a passion. I don't like sitting around. I'm not a boring. I don't like being bored. If somebody says, oh, you're retired. You know, you're retired. And you sit around, that's not me. I constantly. My wife tells me I work too much. She says, why are you always, never satisfied? You always want more. More. I says, it's not that I want more, it's just I don't like doing nothing.
- [22:50]
A
Yeah, you know an audible right now you brought up Baby Mike 1984, you went through the worst tragedy in life. And I want to fast forward because I thought it was incredible how you helped people along the way because of that. Tony Stewart, he was upset because he didn't win a race, and he. You've taken what you've went through, and I believe that you've helped everybody. You know, there's some people that run third in the heat race and they're just devastated. Oh, I didn't make the transfer spot. And because of what you've gone through with Baby Mike, you've straightened a lot of people out in life. Tony Stewart told me this, quote, unquote, Tony Stewart told me this. Mike Wallace helped me more than three therapists could ever help me. What's your thought about that?
- [24:00]
C
Well, I can. I remember the day, I remember the time, I remember when it all happened that I met Tony, I mean, I knew Tony, but didn't know him well. And, and we won't get into the details of it, but it was a July 4th race in Daytona. I won the race that night. Earlier that day, we had a conversation and I offered, I shared what had happened in our life, and I offered if he was so miserable, I offered to trade him positions.
- [24:27]
A
Yeah.
- [24:28]
C
You know, if you got that and, you know, if your race car is that bad, let me drive your race car. You come drive the cars I drive.
- [24:36]
A
Yeah.
- [24:37]
C
And you know, your old buddy Eddie Jarvis was his truck bus driver early on. Just a bus driver for him. He introduced us. And it just so happened I won that night at Daytona.
- [24:51]
A
Big win.
- [24:52]
C
Big win. That was in victory Lane was Tony Stewart standing there with this huge smile. So, like two weeks later, I'm walking behind the pit box at Joe Gibbs Racing on a Cup race, and Joe Gibbs stops me. Coach Joe Gibbs. And he goes, hey. He says, I want to thank you. I says, for what? He says, I don't know what the conversation was with you and Tony, and I'm not going to ask you what it was, but Tony looked at us and said he had a conversation and literally his kind of, like, outlook on things is way different. And he says, you were inspirational or whatever you said to him, so thank you. And then a few weeks later, that magazine, the ESPN the Magazine, might have been to. A month later, Tony made a mention of our conversation. And I don't know, he just. Number one, he's a great guy. He's an incredible person. And I don't know, you got. Maybe some people don't realize how bad bad is. Yeah, right.
- [25:56]
A
I always say when people talk about people, I'm like, well, hold on now. You don't know everything.
- [26:01]
C
Yeah, there's, you know, there's a lot of stories people don't know. I. And I do, since I thought I said this to you before, but just always remember if it's changeable or fixable, it's just an obstacle in life. It's when you can't change it or fix it is when it's really bad. Right.
- [26:20]
A
I agree. So we. I didn't want to. I didn't know how to approach that. You brought it up. It's uncomfortable for me. I, I love you so much.
- [26:31]
C
Uncomfortable for everybody. It's just, it's, you know, I, I remember because unfortunately for you, it falls right when your birthday was, you know, so I, you know, when that happened. But it is what it was and is and never forget about it. Never gets easier, gets harder and harder. But that's a. That was a part of our life that's real, real difficult. And, you know, we proceeded past that. And I think that's given us, when I use the word us, that's my wife and I, my family and you know, giving us that strength to do things, you know, never let that, oh, I can't do that. Or look what he's got, you know. No, just go out and earn it.
- [27:12]
A
I still think of Baby Mike to this day. He would do that little dance and wiggle. But, brother, I love you so much. So let's stay on that genre. You win Daytona and we do want to take a 180 here. Daytona, Talladega. Damn, man, you could. You could hold a class. You were. When the Craftsman Truck Series first started. You won the very first Craftsman Truck race ever at Daytona. Then you come back, that race you're talking about, that July race in the red Geico car, I mean, you flat get it on you. You ran an incredible finish in the Daytona 500. You run fourth at Daytona. Tell me about this speedway stuff. You are so good at it.
- [28:04]
C
Just hard to beat Talent Hermit. That's right. That's right.
- [28:09]
A
Damn it. You're just good. There you are, though. You don't mess around. You go through the middle, you get it done.
- [28:15]
C
You know, everybody says there's a contributing point to something, and I will say this. And whether you want to believe it or not, we all throw these stories. You know, the Earnhardt name sticks in everybody's mind forever. And you always throw it. But I was up. I was. Then this is a true story. Early in my career, I just moved down here and I went up, I bought. Got a hood from Richard Childress for a charity that I was doing. And I asked Dale Earnhardt if he would sign it for me. And he says, the only way I'm going to sign it is if you come up and hang out at the farm all day.
- [28:48]
A
Oh, damn.
- [28:49]
C
And it's like he didn't realize that was a big thing to me. You know, I get to hang out with Dale Earnhardt, anybody, you know. So I went up there and literally got there at nine o' clock in the morning and I stayed till four. And we talked. We talked about racing, we talked about Daytona, Talladega, all those type of things. And I think I learned things that the average person didn't get that exposure to. And then I enjoyed the racing there. I liked racing at Daytona and Talladega, you know, whether it was whatever restrictor plates, whatever restrictions and you know the old story, racing to, to, to go, you got to go somewhere. They're not. And I remember Hornaday and I talking about it. He goes, man, he says, you went through the middle. I didn't know if I was supposed to follow you, but I did. And he says, holy crap. So, yeah, just fun. Would really love to go race there, continue to race there. But that, you know, my last big race was driving Kevin Harvick's truck there.
- [29:49]
A
Telade. Right.
- [29:51]
C
And, and that. The Anderson maple syrup truck. And won. I won the race.
- [29:56]
A
Yeah.
- [29:57]
C
You know, so I drive.
- [29:59]
A
Right.
- [30:00]
C
Pardon?
- [30:00]
A
Talladega.
- [30:02]
C
Yeah, yeah, Talladega. I have a, that was 2010. I have a 1000% batting average driving for Kevin Harvick. Yeah. One race, one win.
- [30:14]
A
You bring up Kevin Harvick. You know, everybody drives for car owners. You know, it's never one or two. It's more. When you look back through your career, what was the. In your NASCAR career, whether it was Judy Dunleavy or Marc Reno or. I don't know who it was. What was the con? What was that period of time that you were the happiest? You really like that team? You like that moment?
- [30:46]
C
I would be shorting anybody if I didn't say every part, every series. But the one that made me, you know, I got to name two of them because I can't name one. That's fine. When I drove the two truck for Jim Smith and one Daytona and one Bakersfield and, you know, ran up front and almost won the championship, all of that, the depth of performance of that vehicle allowed me to run well.
- [31:11]
A
Yeah.
- [31:11]
C
Now we fast forward to only an eight race stint in 2001 with Peter Suspenso as my crew chief. I got to drive the mobile one Penske car.
- [31:24]
A
Yes.
- [31:25]
C
That was a. That bought myself 10 more years of a career.
- [31:30]
A
Yes.
- [31:30]
C
What it did. But every Thursday night, we and the road crew, my phrase it, myself and the road crew would go out to eat. I learned how to break beer bottles and champagne bottles with my palm of my hand from those guys. And they, they, I found out they liked me so much because I admit it, when I was wrong, if I did something in the race car, I'd say, well, I had, I did this wrong. Sorry, guys. And go, holy crap. We haven't had a driver that's told us they've done anything wrong. It's always the car. So that stint right there was the greatest in the world. I thought it was going to be a continuation career and then it closed up even though I got offered really great rides and I turned down thinking I was going to go drive for them again and then it closed up. But so it would have been Jim Smith's 2 truck, the ultimate truck that won Daytona and strong performance no matter where we went. Then to my career's about over. Nobody's got confidence in me. I get the opportunity in 2001 to go drive the last eight races in the mobile 112 car and run up front every race.
- [32:42]
D
The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today in a place tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and its many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
- [33:11]
E
Need to restock inventory, cover seasonal dips or manage payroll. OnDeck's small business line of credit provides immediate access to funds up to $200,000 exactly when your business needs it. With flexible draws, transparent pric and full control over repayment, you can tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. Apply today@ondeck.com and funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic. Bank on Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [33:43]
A
You are in the 12 Roger Penske mobile one car and you're going to win Phoenix. Brother Rusty's behind you and he's not going to pass you. He can't get past you. We love Rusty with our life.
- [33:59]
C
I don't.
- [34:00]
A
I'm not where I am without brother Rusty. But you're going to win the race. I guess it's a fair assessment to say that you. You didn't stay there because you're his brother. You know, what the hell you doing, you know, in front of Rusty? I said all the bad stuff just now. So how bad did that look? Did. Did that hurt when you realized you couldn't stay in the car? Give me your opinion on that whole area right at that time.
- [34:34]
C
Well, let me tell you what, what really hurt. I I ended up running. I led that Phoenix race forever. Okay? Jeff Burton ended up getting by me and winning the race. I run second.
- [34:45]
A
Yeah.
- [34:46]
C
Cup, the cup race, the cup car and this what I'm telling you this story, this is a non exaggerated, this is exactly how it came down story.
- [34:54]
A
Yeah.
- [34:55]
C
Okay, so I run second. We do all the stuff with the team, you know, I walk back, you know, we one time had motor homes and all that stuff. We were pretty big time, you know. So I'm walking to the motorhome lot. Richard Childress is coming from the other direction. We run into each other or you know, merge together. At the gate he looks at me, he goes, man, you prove to the world you're a hell of a race car driver. He says, how would you like to come drive for me next year? He said, better off. I'm offering you an opportunity to come drive for me next year. I says, richard, I would love to. I says, but I was told the other day, other day two weeks ago that I was going to drive this 12 car again next year. They took me, they brought me up to the shop and showed me the Daytona car for next year and it's got my name over top of the door already. I said, I regretfully am going to turn you down. I said, I never thought I would ever say something like that in my life to Richard Childress. Yeah. So if you remember, that was the year of 911 and we had to make up the makeup race at Loudon the week after Phoenix, Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving week
- [36:08]
A
and freezing up there. I remember I was in a car.
- [36:12]
C
Yeah. So we then go to Loudoun and run well up there and come back and there's a quote, a team meeting called on Tuesday at Penske Racing. Now we just come from running second at Phoenix. Go to loud and make up the 911 race that you know, tragedy set in that year. We're making it up. Far as I know. I got a solid ride. But at the same time my older brother told me they're going to close that team up. Believe me, you're not going to have a ride. Just let me, I'm telling you what's going on. I said, I don't believe you. This is Tom Delos, who was a partner, showed me a car. He said, I don't care what they say, you're not going to have a ride. And I ignored him. You know, so we come back home and on Tuesday they Monday, they'd send a note out Tuesday, come to the shop. Walked in that shop at 9 o' clock on Tuesday morning, whole team sitting there and everybody's kind of thinking, getting a congratulations and what's going to, you know, transpire. Here comes Walt Zarnicke walking In and literally in less than five minutes, he fires the whole entire team and says, we're closing up.
- [37:24]
A
Oh, my.
- [37:25]
C
The 12 car is being closed up. It's not going to exist anymore. And, boy, you're talking about a group of devastated people. And me, of course, because I'm, you know, at that moment I'm thinking about myself and.
- [37:38]
A
Well, absolutely, you have to take care of number one. When you're in nascar, you fight for yourself.
- [37:44]
C
Nobody, you know. So literally a couple hours later, I call Richard Childress t at that opportunity, trying to fill that opportunity. The problem was that opportunity was a week and a half ago and he had already found somebody to put in the car, and it blew that all apart. So a devastating go from the highest of highs, literally the highest of highs in racing, right. To the lowest of lows. Right.
- [38:09]
A
So you also had Jack Roush wants you to drive his car. What was that story about?
- [38:18]
C
This is a great. Jack Rausch had reached out to me, want to know if I would replace Jamie Murray, drive the Crown Royal car. Without a doubt. Love to. You know, that was a huge compliment to me. And he, believe it or not, Zach Brown, who runs today, runs McLaren, right? The orange and black cars, the McLaren cars. He. He had had a marketing company back in the day, and he was the guy that brought UPS and Crown Royal and all that into the sport. He, Zach Brown, who's the head of McLaren today, come to our motorhome and Carl is in there. He called, arrange a meeting and come and sat in our motorhome at Daytona and wanted to know if I would be willing and open to drive Jack Roush's car. He and Jack would like to have me come drive the car. Crown Royal would like to come have me drive the car. They got a little hang up, though. Not 100% sure, because Irwin, who is a big associate sponsor, they thought did a lot around Jamie and they hadn't got the clearance from them, but they wanted to have everything in place that, you know, they got everything squared away. And he said, well, other than get the Irwin people, which they're. They're invested in this for a lot of money. He says, I think we got a deal only to come back and say we can't get the Irwin people to change and I'm sorry, you know, that we can't live up to the deal.
- [39:50]
A
Right? Yeah.
- [39:52]
C
And so, you know, you had all those deals that are close, had opportunity. Thought I was going to go drive for the Wood Brothers. At one time, had went to the Wood Brothers Jack Roush called me. Actually, Jack sent me to the Wood Brothers, called me and says, hey, go up there and visit with them. And so I went to Stuart, Virginia, sat down, left there thinking I'm, you know, the old story, right.
- [40:14]
A
The most famous team in nascar.
- [40:16]
C
Yep. And then it comes back to, well, they've somehow Ford Motor Company wanted rookie Rudd, so they went after Ricky and found the money to hire him. And,
- [40:28]
A
well, so, you know, let me make you feel a little bit better. My career was over too, and I jumped in that Pennzoil car set, quick time at Rockingham, out, won the damn race. And, you know, is what it is. And that's the way these stories are. Pretty incredible to look back, because when we listen to the Dale Jr. Podcast, he. He does this just about every show now where, you know, Dale Jr. Has become very famous. You know, it's kind of like that little children's rhyme one.
- [41:03]
C
Done.
- [41:04]
A
So the Dale Jr. Podcast now has these people in Tony Urie Jr. It's like, oh, damn. So that was the story 20 years ago. It is a shame that. But. But, Mike, it's credit to you. It's credit to you that you, you know, during those days, you don't go out and go, hey, you know. But Dale Jr. Is now making this very famous where we're hearing the end of these stories. Are you watching those stories on Dale junior Podcast?
- [41:37]
C
A little bit. A little bit. But I gotta share. You mentioned Dale Jr. And I have to share this because this was just a highlight, another highlight in my career that hardly anybody knows anything about.
- [41:47]
A
Yeah, tell us.
- [41:48]
C
Okay, so I'm driving the number nine car for Barry Owen. Oh, I'm at Bristol Motor Speedway. Dale Earnhardt got hurt the week before, or he'd been hurt for like two weeks, right? He's been hurt, like, really bad hurt. And all of a sudden, one of the guys from Richard Childress Racing comes over to me. Danny Lawrence is who it was. I remember Danny Lawrence comes over, he says, hey, Earnhardt wants to see in his trailer. Can you come over there? I'm driving for Barry Owens in a nine car FDP car. It's like, sure. I go over there, I walk up front, and I so remember Teresa Earnhardt was sitting there. Dale was laid up on the couch. And then Richard walks in, and Dale looks at me, goes, look, I'm hurt. He says, and I might have to get out of this car tomorrow night. And I need somebody will drive this, saying, I think you're the best person in here to drive it. He Says, but you gotta promise me, that is, if you want to do it. You won't make an ass of yourself. That's exactly what he said. Don't make an ass of yourself. I says, well, first of all, thank you very much. I mean, for considering me. There's 40 other bush drivers over there, right? Yeah. They come and get Mike Wallace. Richard says, man, we're all good. Everybody's great. We're looking forward to it. And I still remember this. He looks at me. Dale looks at me. Dale Earnhardt himself. He goes, all right, go out there, fit yourself in that car. See if we can. You can change in and out of it. He says, once you get settled in, you take that thing out and practice some.
- [43:25]
A
What track was this?
- [43:26]
C
That was at Bristol Motor Speedway.
- [43:28]
A
Oh, damn.
- [43:31]
C
So I got a lovely fast forward. So we set the car, everything. I'm gonna make it fit regardless, right?
- [43:37]
A
Oh, hell, yeah.
- [43:38]
C
If this Chocolate Myers walks up to the window and he said, all right. They told me, you're supposed to practice. Tighten up and go out there. I'm dry. Practice the three car. Wow. Richard Childresses.
- [43:50]
A
That's big.
- [43:51]
C
Dale Earnhardt. So we come back Sunday and. But now this time, Earnhardt. Dale Earnhardt. I still have it in my closet. I have it in a drawer up. It's. I got a GM good red shirt that's got Dale Erode in the collar of it.
- [44:04]
A
I'll be damned.
- [44:05]
C
He says, here's a shirt. Where's hat? He says, where are you right now? This is Earnhardt. Tell me. He says, wear your normal uniform. That was a highly Myers uniform or FDP uniform I had at that time. He says, put this shirt on. It was a black gm, good red shirt and the hat. Leave your uniform down and make you. And sit up on top of the pit box. Oh. So I. There's this cool picture of me sitting down like a damn starter man.
- [44:30]
A
Yeah.
- [44:31]
C
But Chocolate comes up to me at the start of the race. He goes, where's your. Where's your street clothes at? He goes, you might as well go get them damn things. He says, he's not going to get out of that car. I said, no. He said he was. He says, I'm telling you, he's not going to get out. He's going to end up lapsed down and he's not going to get out. But thank you for being here. So the end of story was he ended up nine laps down, but he wouldn't get out of the car. But he asked me to drive the car and I practiced that car.
- [45:04]
D
The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and its many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
- [45:33]
E
Cash flow crunch on Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today@ondeck.com funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by On Deck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans in amount subject to lender approval.
- [46:05]
A
Well, you, you know, Dale Senior and Rusty were a lot alike. They didn't like teammates and they didn't like anybody on their turf. You know, it's it. We all know that Dale Sr. Didn't like Mike Skinner. Just being around him, you know, he probably liked Mike, but just like, get away. I think that's Mike. I think that's from being born in the 50s, something like that. You know, I'm the man. Don't be around me. And yeah, I think Rusty and Senior were a lot alike.
- [46:36]
C
Yeah. Then the other story with Earnhardt and since we're on him, I was driving Barry Owens his car to Charlotte. He had his own Busch car. We started on restart, came, yeah, you know, he's leading a race, I'm running second. I drove down in turn three and literally hit him in the left or quarter panel and spun Dale Earnhardt out.
- [46:58]
A
Damn.
- [46:59]
C
You know, it's like, oh, hell, this is going to be bad, bad, bad.
- [47:03]
A
Yeah.
- [47:03]
C
So we finished the race and I go find him. I don't let, I don't let no grass grow. I'm beeline down. Where's our heart at? And I looked at him and we'd already created a little bit of this relationship, you know, from up at the farm and stuff like that. And I said, man, I am sorry. I am really sorry. He looked me square and I just as nice as can be. He says, did you mean to do it? I said, well, hell no, I didn't mean to do it. I was just racing hard. He says, we're good then.
- [47:33]
A
Well, that's how he spun everybody else out. He didn't mean to do it either.
- [47:37]
C
Yeah, but it just. It was not like you're a little jerk or a little ass or anything. It's just like, did you mean to do it?
- [47:42]
A
Nope.
- [47:43]
C
And great stories. Yeah.
- [47:45]
A
Yeah. Well, brother to me, you know, we all want. You know, even. Even talking to our big brother, Rusty, who has done it all. I tell everybody how much I love Rusty. How much I love you. Even interviewing Rusty at the end there, you know, he wanted more out of his career. You know, you want. You wanted more. I wanted more. But here we are, you know, we're of age now and life is good. We got our health, we got our children.
- [48:16]
C
So
- [48:19]
A
let's start wrapping it up here. My God, we're already almost at an hour. Let's talk about just for a little bit here, because I think it's very intriguing. You have your daughter Chrissy. You have Matt and Lindsay. You have two girls, one boy. They're all wonderful kids. Equally wonderful. But Chrissy, if anybody's able to go back through the archives, she was unbelievable. She was a great race car driver. Won the Lebanon I44 champion up here in Lebanon, Missouri. The boys did not like her, but she can flat drive. Just. I don't want the whole story, but I mean, just tell me about Chrissy, just how good she was. You had to go with it because she was getting the job done.
- [49:09]
C
Well, she. She was a. She was a talent and still is. Probably a talent. She's got. Actually called me last night. She lives right down the street here. She is going back to Hickory and Tri county to run two races this year. Oh, damn. She made a deal with someone and she's gonna go run a late model. She was just kid with natural talent.
- [49:30]
A
Yeah.
- [49:30]
C
You know, started in those bandolero cars and then went to legend cars. And Kurt Andrews helped her a lot. And they won a lot of stuff and got a late model, good late model, over to i44 and won a bunch of races over there. They won the championship, won what was. At that time, you know, they. That was run under the ASA banner. So she won, literally won the ASA west championship of what was called the Joe Gibbs driven series at that time. She raced Jeb Burton, believe it or not, for the championship. He was over here racing, she was over there. But she's done a lot of really cool things other than being a race car driver. Yeah. You know, she walked a red Carpet at the ESPY Awards. I said, hey, and Lindsay. Well, I said, well, who, like, who walked around you? She goes, well, David Beckham was behind me, but Serena Williams was in front of me. And I went, holy crap, that's like big time. She goes, oh, yeah. And she rang the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange, had articles in the Wall Street Journal, but just she was fast and really didn't have any major fear. It seemed like in it she was a little ahead of her time from the woman's side of things. I remember her running. The great race she ran was at Martinsville and Tony Stewart helped her the whole time. I mean, he helped her all through practice. It was her first race. She running a big time deal, a Toyota truck, driving for Jermaine Racing. And Tony stayed down during her whole practice and I was spotting and then I, then I, I spotted for the race. And Darrell Walter, remember this during the race, this is funnier. She's running well. She, end of story. She finishes 19th on the lead lap, but she gets run in the back of. And I go, well, hunting, it's okay, honey. And Darrell Walter comes across the TV broadcast. He says, I've been called a lot of things from my spotter in my life, but I never said, it's gonna be okay, honey. Yeah.
- [51:31]
A
You know, the race that really impressed me was at Kentucky. I think she qualified third in the truck series.
- [51:37]
C
Yeah.
- [51:38]
A
Got on the inside of Jack's Bragg and got a little loose, spun out. But so that was germane. That was the Jermaine trucks.
- [51:46]
C
She was, anything she did in the truck series was for Jermaine Racing. Bob Jermaine had high hopes for Chrissy. You know, he was going to their Germaine Automotive Group was going to take her places and everything was going well. But you know, I really hate to use the wording because you would think there was a recovery process to it, but the financial Crisis of the 0809010 deal put a burden on everybody, put it on the car business and all that. And that was self funding. They were funding the deal herself. And they just says, we can't do it anymore. And you know, at that time, they didn't go out trying to find a sponsor. She hadn't run really enough to get things, you know, you know how racing goes. I mean, this is a true story. This is not a bs. Lisa Kennedy sent us a letter.
- [52:39]
A
The owner of nascar.
- [52:40]
C
Yeah. Sent us a letter talking about, I read the article about Christie's championship. I seen her article in the Wall Street Journal. I want to help her. I still have the letter. I mean, I have the so and so. Conveniently, I was in Daytona a couple weeks later for something and went and sat down with her. Wow. And she says, I want to help her. I don't know how to help her. She said, I've never found a sponsor in my life. That's when her. Her son, Ben Kennedy was racing. She says, we just make sure he's got what he needs. And I want you to go to Charlotte or you live in Charlotte. I want you to go to downtown and make it happen. I'll have my people make it happen. Well, you know how those stories go.
- [53:23]
A
It's never done until it's done.
- [53:24]
C
That's never done. The other the people that were supposed to make it happen didn't make it happen. And even though the boss told him to find something, didn't. But that's it. But Chrissy was a talent that I really wish. I really wish for her sake she would have had a chance to continue that career, to see how it played out, because I think she would have been, you know, they're playing for right now, you know, hey, we need a girl racing or we need some. She would have been the one that would have. Would approve to make it.
- [53:56]
A
Yeah, I. And I'm going to say this for the people that are watching this, you know, what happened. It's this way. It is this way in nascar. Everybody, all it takes is timing and circumstances. You know, sponsor backs out, it gets too hard. I mean, I think the same, you know, Mike, let's switch to Matt. To me. Matt. Oh, my God. I mean, what a talent I was. I watched Matt win all the time. I go to. I go to New Smyrna and I watch Matt win, you know, the World Series of Late Model racing. He wins. And then. Do you think Matt quit racing because he was worried that it was going to take too much financing and he didn't want to be disappointed. What? Why did Matt not keep racing? Because I know how talented he is.
- [54:56]
C
You know, you would think I know this answer.
- [54:59]
A
Yeah.
- [55:00]
C
But I really don't. I think the one thing he made a. I'll tell you the story. Well, I'll tell you the real story that drove this. I'll tell you the players of it. So he is out at Concord Motorsports Park. He outruns Harrison Burton. I remember, for that big race. Okay, so up to that point, up to that point, we were talking to a guy by the name of Jack Irwin, Right. I'm talking to him for two months. Yeah, we, you know, we like what we see in Matt. Da, da, da. We're going to consider. And I don't even know what being on the Toyota deal involves. I'm thinking instead of going to put you in a ride, only the thing. So on Monday. Now, Matt, you got to understand, Matt and I are driving down the road. I'm driving. And you know how somebody can hear your conversation in a phone.
- [55:48]
A
Yeah.
- [55:48]
C
But you're not intended for him to hear. So Matt's sitting next to me. I called Jack, and I say, jack, hey, you know Mike Wallace. How you doing? Hey, Mike. Yeah. I said, well, I just want to let you know, you know, we're getting close to this conversation about Matt. And I says, you know, he won Saturday night out run Harrison. He says, oh, I know. I was there. I seen it. It was incredible. He says, just an incredible talent. He says, now we got to get down to the most important part. He says, how old is Matt? I says, well, he's 20. He's going to be 21. He goes, that's where our problem's at. He's too old for our program. And I looked at Matt, and you could just see his face just go like this.
- [56:31]
A
This devastating blow.
- [56:33]
C
It. Devastating. He's not even 21 years old yet. He hears the guy that's, you know, you can read about Jack. I don't even really actually know him. You know, I just talked to him on the phone.
- [56:42]
A
They're all good people, but they get. They've been given these or, you know.
- [56:45]
C
Yeah. And so that. That deflated his balloon. And then he continued on and won races and things like that. And nice lady Pat Pendleton, who owned Unkers, was the greatest sponsor for him. Yeah. You know, and then she ended up not being able to continue that, you know, would do anything to do it. She ended up selling her company. And Matt looked at. After that story there, he looked at his mom, and I says, look, I don't want you to break yourselves to make a career for me that I might not have.
- [57:17]
A
What a smart kid.
- [57:20]
C
And he says, he's. I'll be honest with you. And he's watched us in the real estate business a little bit. He says, if you want to spend money on me, just buy me a couple rental houses that I can, man. So basically, I didn't buy him. I just gave him one that we had. And he's. Now He's. He's got 10 of them. He owns 10 houses. And he. He told me the other day it Was really crazy because, you know, he still has two late models, still has his truck and trailer. I begged him to sell it for a year now, and he refuses to sell it. I think that's. He doesn't want to cut the. Cut the cord, as they say. Totally. And he says, you know, I'd really like to go back racing.
- [57:58]
A
That makes me happy.
- [58:00]
C
So he didn't want his mom and dad breaking themselves trying to make a career after he found out there might not be a career.
- [58:08]
A
Yeah, Matt's extremely smart. All three of your children, Lindsay, Chrissy, Matt, they're wonderful people. Well, brother, you know, these are cautionary tales, but you had a wonderful career and, you know, these are things that happen in the sport. I love you so much. Thank you for loving me. And a lot of people say, what's Mike doing? And I'm so happy that we could have rusty on you on back to back. That's what my brother Mike is up to. We get along extremely well. We talk on the phone. And I'm living in St. Louis. Mike is in North Carolina. And brother, thank you for being on Kenny conversation.
- [58:55]
C
Yeah, well, thank you for having me and congratulations to you. You have your whole family back in St. Louis.
- [59:02]
A
Yes.
- [59:02]
C
Got all the kids back there, grandkids and everything now. So your life is all united back. Our kids are here. You mentioned Matt. Him and Sarah had a baby about a year ago. Our oldest daughter Lindsay is pregnant again. She's going to have a baby in January, so. And we're getting ready to go on a family cruise here in a week. Week or a month? Excuse me.
- [59:21]
A
A month.
- [59:21]
C
Yeah, life's good. Life can't get much better. So I'm excited.
- [59:26]
A
Yeah, well, that means the world to me. Well, I want to remind everybody we are in podcast form. You can listen to the Kenny Conversation, the Kenny Wallace show. You go to Spotify, itunes. Listen to it on the way to work, from work, on the way back home. And until the next Kenny Conversation, we just keep on rolling. Thanks a lot, lot, everybody.
- [59:47]
C
Love you, brother.
- [59:48]
A
Love you more. Check out dirty Mo media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.
- [60:03]
D
At Strayer University, we help students like you go from will I To why not? For over 130 years, we've been innovating higher education technology to make it more affordable, accessible and attainable so you can reach your goals. Go from thinking, can I? To yes, I can. And keep striving. Visit strayer Edu to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and its many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.