Racers are Racing and Lawyers are Talking

Summary

Herm & Schrader – Episode Summary

Podcast: Herm & Schrader
Episode: "Racers are Racing and Lawyers are Talking"
Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Kenny Wallace (“Herm”) & Ken Schrader
Producer/Guest: Craig Moore

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Main Theme

This episode is a classic installment of Herm & Schrader: two veteran racers and friends candidly riff on all things motorsports, from recent races and old stories to the explosive state of NASCAR, dirt events, and the blockbuster legal showdown shaking up big-league stock car racing. It's occasionally irreverent, always racing-obsessed, and packed with heartfelt, unfiltered wisdom from two guys who have lived their lives at the track.

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Table of Contents

• Show Opener & Format Change
• Volusia, Turkey Night, and Turkey Derby Dirt Roundup
• F1 in Las Vegas – Racing, Riches, and Reflections
• Gateway Dirt Nationals & PRI Show
• IHRA’s New Stock Car Series & Power Dynamics
• The NASCAR Lawsuit – Explosive Allegations & Fallout
• Personal Reflections & The State of the Sport
• Jokes, Goodbyes, and Final Thoughts

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Show Opener & Format Change

• [01:33] Herm: “It is hard to believe that we've lasted this long.”
  The guys open the show reflecting on it being their last episode of 2025. Producer Craig Moore announces it is also his last show due to schedule demands.
• [02:28] Craig Moore: “My one day off is Monday when we record it. And I can't do a whole year of not having any days off.”
  Kenny & Herm thank him for his work, prompt stories about the intensity of racing and radio broadcasting.
• [03:11-04:09] Herm & Schrader: Reflection on the challenge of balancing racing with media gigs. Herm compares their lives to the stamina required in regular jobs.

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Volusia, Turkey Night, and Turkey Derby Dirt Roundup

Volusia & Florida Dirt Racing

• [04:24] Herm: Notes Kenny’s recent trip to Volusia and his rare “cross to the dark side” in making a social media video.
• [05:03] Schrader (on track conditions):
  “Oh my gosh, it was just as smooth as can be... What we want is good wide racetrack where the surface is good all the way across. And they have really... It's going to be a phenomenal Speedweeks.”
• [06:42] Recap of Volusia’s week – Drake Troutman is discussed as recent winner.
• Reflection on how Florida racing doesn’t translate back home in the Midwest.
  • [07:30] Herm: “Whatever you do in Florida, leave it in Florida. The tracks just don't...they don't work anything up here.”

Wall Stadium & Turkey Night

• [09:10] Discussion about Wall Stadium's annual Turkey Derby (New Jersey dirt racing tradition).
  • [16:17] Craig Moore: “That’s where the great Ray Evernham got his feet wet.”
• [09:51-14:19] Turkey Night Grand Prix at Ventura Raceway (California)
  • [13:50] Herm:
    “Corey Day wins the 84th running of the Turkey Night Grand Prix from Ventura Raceway.”
  • Noted as a major American midget race, with a who's-who of past winners.
  • [14:48] Herm (on using live highlights):
    “I'm literally on Flow on my phone watching the highlights. It's so easy to do.”

Notable Moments & Quotes

• [12:46] Schrader (on streaming woes):
  “Was having trouble with my streaming Saturday night during the Ventura race...So it was late and I decided it was a good time to go to bed.”
• [14:49] Herm: “Corey Day... He's going to drive for Hendrick next year... The kid's got a lot of talent.”
• [15:31] Max Zackam wins the Turkey Derby.
  • [16:36] Schrader (on Wall):
    “It's got a lot of bank, but it's like Bowman Gray with bank...almost like a rule you have to hit the car in front of you in the middle. Everybody runs over everybody. It's a little challenging.”

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F1 in Las Vegas – Racing, Riches, and Reflections

• [18:20] Herm opens up about Brad Sweet and Casey Kane attending Las Vegas F1 and ponders why F1 is such an “elite” fascination.
• [19:25] Schrader:
  “It's expensive. I like a couple of movies, you know, they made...I mean, I hear $300 million budgets and stuff.”
• Herm shares a story about visiting Ferrari in Modena, Italy, witnessing extreme fan devotion even in the off-season.
• [21:23] Schrader:
  “Well, I think you...I think you need to be wealthy if you go there. I don't think you can just act it. I think you need to be wealthy if you go there.”
• [21:44] Schrader (on F1 infrastructure in Vegas):
  “They built a lot of permanent structures out there for that race.”
• Discussion of F1’s appeal—man and machine, status, the ONLY truly international motorsport.
  • [22:21] Schrader: “Well, it's only a worldwide thing anyway. The only worldwide racing.”
  • [23:55] Herm: “Is there something to be learned there, Kenny? They only run 24 races.”
• Thoughts on scheduling — NASCAR used to be just 28, now more, and whether a shorter season would leave fans more engaged.
  • [25:28] Craig Moore: “When the NFL season ends, you want more. When the NASCAR season ends, you're kind of like, okay, take a break.”

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Gateway Dirt Nationals & PRI Show

• [27:17] Schrader:
  “I've never ran the Dome...I'm amazed that it's been nine years now, and I'm amazed that has grown...35,000, it's got to be the biggest attendance for a dirt race.”
• [28:53] Herm: “Is it a theatrical event that celebrates...I always say it's about celebrating dirt racing...they come out with these paint schemes...gentlemen, if you want to be invited back, make us remember you.”
• Comparison to Chili Bowl and how certain dirt events become “must-runs” in the offseason.
• Discussion of Performance Racing Industry (PRI) Show and how certain races line up to keep racers busy all winter.
• Shoutout to Jason Fager, whose car is painted as a tribute to Schrader’s old Kodiak car.
  • [31:44] Herm on Fager’s evolution as a driver: “He's really the best, I think Jason Fager's ever been.”

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IHRA’s New Stock Car Series & Power Dynamics

• [35:12-36:35] Herm & Schrader:

  • IHRA (International Hot Rod Association) is launching a new stock car series with a simplified rule book, limiting expensive technology and making racing more accessible.
  • The owner of IHRA is a rich electrician who won a contract from Elon Musk.
    • [37:11] Herm: “We need the weird people because they're the ones that got all the money. Smart people, we stay broke.”

• [36:34] Schrader:
  “They're leasing [the racetracks]. So the tracks haven't said, hey, we want you to come to our place.”

• Scheduled races at Pulaski Motorsports Park (VA), Cordell (GA), Newport (TN), Anderson (SC), Stalham (IN), and Memphis (TN).

• [37:23] Schrader (skeptical): “Oh yes, we need another association and another set of rules. Yeah, most definitely. Bring it on...We'll just have to see what happens.”

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The NASCAR Lawsuit – Explosive Allegations & Fallout

The Lawsuit at a Glance

• [38:00-51:00] The Main Event: NASCAR faces a monopolistic practices lawsuit from 23XI Racing (Michael Jordan, Denny Hamlin) and Front Row Motorsports, who refused to sign the newest charter agreement.
• Grounds: Teams objected to “take-it-or-leave-it” demands over charters, broadcasting money, and more transparent governance.

Notable Revelations & Quotes

• [39:00] Herm: “Steve Phelps, our president, said Richard Childress needs to be taken out back and flogged. He's a dumb redneck.”
  (This quote is from an internal email, now public due to the lawsuit.)

• [39:30] Herm: “Steve O’Donnell came out and said SRX Series is our competition and we need to put a knife in the SRX series...”

• [40:17] Schrader: “When SRX was at its best, they were having ratings that were good compared to Truck and Xfinity...”

• [41:49] Schrader (on 23XI’s position):

  “I have a big problem...somebody comes into a sport...invests millions...and then they want to change it. Yes, all the teams would like to have more money...But Penske signed, Rick signed, Wood Brothers signed, Coach Gibbs signed, Richard Childress signed...A couple teams decided that it wasn’t going to be that simple.”

• [43:14] Herm:
  Reflects on how the Race Team Alliance was created so teams could get more negotiating power: “It started with all the car owners signing...It made that group strong...Then they went to NASCAR and they said, hey, you guys get a billion a year; we want more.”

  • Defends 23XI and Front Row as “scapegoats” for the rest.

• [45:00] Schrader:
  “There could be financial help...if they do win. But what's it going to do to our sport?...How many fans are we going to piss off? How many sponsors?...Nothing good can come from it, I don't think.”

• [46:44] Herm (on Mark Martin’s perspective):
  “Mark...calls them gimmicks...They have destroyed our sport for the last five years by saying the points are no good, the TV’s no good...It hurts me because it made me and you a good life. We are in trouble right now.”

• [47:35] Schrader (on drivers vs. owners):
  “Drivers...just puppets...If the 36 drivers that run them charter cars...not a One of you are coming back...it’ll take a couple years, but there’ll be 36 more guys. You know, the car owners are vital.”

Richard Childress Fallout

• NASCAR President Steve Phelps’s derogatory comments about Childress leaked—creating uproar.
  • RCR (Richard Childress Racing) contemplates legal action.
  • [48:40] Herm: “The judge said, gentlemen, you better solve this behind closed doors because you're getting ready to burn the sport down.”

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Personal Reflections & The State of the Sport

• Universal sense of sadness, worry, and even bitterness about what the lawsuit, leaks, and infighting are doing to the sport and its future.
• Herm laments the good old days, reflects on how “the race team alliance” changed the negotiation dynamic forever.
• Noted that NASCAR is promising a new points structure, but there’s skepticism that the legal battle may complicate everything.
  • [53:26] Kenny Schrader: “We don't know if the...judge and the jury is going to tell them what they're doing with [points].”
• [53:55] Kenny Schrader:
  “There's going to be some big hurt feelings.”
• [54:06] Herm:
  “This reminds me of when you and I would start the races at Bristol and you just go around apologizing to all the drivers before the race starts.”

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Jokes, Goodbyes, and Final Thoughts

• [33:51, 54:16] Classic Cornball Racing Dad Jokes:
  • Schrader: "What did the symphony conductor name his twin girls? Anna one and a two." [34:12]
  • Craig: "Why did the coffee taste like dirt? Because it was ground just a few minutes ago." [54:34]
• [55:41] Herm: Heartfelt goodbyes to departing producer Craig Moore.
• [55:45] Herm: “And listen, everybody, this is our last show. You will hear the best of coming forward.”
• [56:12] Craig: “Why can’t dinosaurs clap their hands? Because they’re extinct.”

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Most Memorable Quotes & Moments

On the Lawsuit:

• Herm [39:00]:
  “Our president, Steve Phelps, said Richard Childress needs to be taken out back and flogged. He’s a dumb redneck.”
• Schrader [41:49]:
  "Somebody comes into a sport...invests millions...and then they want to change it."
• Herm [43:14]:
  “All they are is scapegoats. The other car owners are like, man, I hope they win this damn thing.”

On the Future:

• Schrader [53:55]:
  “There’s going to be some big hurt feelings.”

On Racing Culture:

• Herm [28:53]:
  “If you win the race, it’s awesome. But people just...they come out with these paint schemes...Gentlemen, if you want to be invited back, make us remember you.”

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Key Timestamps

• [01:33] – Reflection on show's longevity; Craig’s exit.
• [04:24] – Volusia dirt race review.
• [09:51] – Thanksgiving racing traditions; open-wheel dirt culture.
• [13:50] – Turkey Night Grand Prix: Corey Day wins.
• [15:31] – Wall Stadium Turkey Derby: Max Zackam wins.
• [18:20] – F1 in Las Vegas and the allure of elite auto racing.
• [25:28] – NFL vs NASCAR season length debate.
• [27:17] – Gateway Dirt Nationals: growth and spectacle.
• [35:12] – IHRA’s new stock car series announced.
• [38:00-51:00] – The NASCAR monopoly lawsuit: breakdown, emails, and industry-wide tension.
• [53:26] – The new points structure and looming legal gridlock.
• [54:16+] – Jokes, reflection, heartfelt send-off to Craig Moore.
• [55:45] – Final goodbyes, episode conclusion.

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Overall Tone & Takeaway

This episode offered an unvarnished, at times bittersweet portrait of a sport at a crossroads: nostalgia for racing’s glory days crashes headlong into legal, financial, and cultural upheaval. Herm & Schrader’s banter, humor, and irrepressible affection for the racing community lightens the mood, but their honest worries for the future—and reverence for what made racing special—stick with you.

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For listeners craving racing’s real story, warts and all, this is about as authentic—and occasionally hilarious—as it gets.

Transcript

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[Herman Schrader]

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[Craig Moore]

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[Herman Schrader]

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[Herman Schrader]

I'm looking at Kenny Schrader right now.

[Kenny Schrader]

Is he a drinker in the show? I mean.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. How in the world did we to do a podcast?

[Kenny Schrader]

I like spending time with you.

[Herman Schrader]

That makes me happy.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, it's all about making you happy.

[Herman Schrader]

We're always honest.

[Kenny Schrader]

We don't know that we're not in trouble already. And sometimes truthful. What makes you think you're not a little different?

[Herman Schrader]

You're weird. Herman Schrader. Herman Schrader on the Dirty Mo Media platform from the middle of America in St. Louis, Missouri, one last time in 2025 starts right now.

[Kenny Schrader]

It's the last time. 2025. Who would have even thought it went to December?

[Herman Schrader]

It is hard to believe that we've lasted this long. We've been through two producers. I mean, we're shipping them out as quick as they come in.

[Kenny Schrader]

Kenny, I know we must be bad to work for work with. What do we think we bad, Craig?

[Craig Moore]

No, you guys are awesome. I love working with you guys.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. Well, this is your last show.

[Craig Moore]

It is? Yep. My last show. This was a contract deal for me.

[Kenny Schrader]

I love working with you guys. It's my last show. I'm getting the hell out of here.

[Herman Schrader]

I'm done with this stuff. All right, Craig, go ahead. We love you to death. Tell all your fans. The fans love you. I've seen what's going on with you.

[Craig Moore]

Because I was just asked to do it till the end of the year and my one day off is Monday when we record it. And I can't do a whole year of not having any days off.

[Herman Schrader]

Makes sense to me.

[Craig Moore]

That's why.

[Herman Schrader]

Makes sense. Well, thanks for. Thanks for taking on this big job.

[Craig Moore]

No, it's been great. I love working with you guys. I, you know, I, I've known you and, you know, from the past, Herm Schrader. This is my first opportunity to really get to know you and it's, it's been awesome. I really have enjoyed it.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. That's why you're quitting. Okay. No, I understand why. You gotta, you gotta have, you gotta have one day. You gotta have a day. Yeah, yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

You know, when I, you know, when we lost the great Buddy Baker and I did that, you know, Sirius XM channel 90 and that same thing with me, I finally said, man, I am honored. But after three years, I mean, man, it was just, you know, you sit there and you go to the racetracks, Kenny, you know, Thursday night and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday you come home and then, you know, the radio guys are just. I don't know how you do it all the time, Craig. I mean, you guys never turn off, do you?

[Craig Moore]

No, we, it depends on what you're doing. Like, we're, you know, with no race broadcast, we're kind of turned off right now. So there's a. The engineers are doing a lot of work on the studios. I've gotten, you know, I've been involved in that a little bit, but yeah, once January comes around, it's, it's back to it. We're getting ready for Bowman Gray, then Daytona and, and away we go.

[Kenny Schrader]

Do they still do the media tour?

[Craig Moore]

They do, yes. It takes place at the location I work at the NASCAR production facilities in Concord.

[Kenny Schrader]

That's pretty neat, Kenny.

[Herman Schrader]

I see something that made me happy. You went to Volusia and I, you came to the dark side a little bit, though. You made a video. You made a social media video. Tell me the.

[Kenny Schrader]

Just how good the track was.

[Herman Schrader]

It was beautiful.

[Kenny Schrader]

Oh my gosh, I can't wait to go down February. Last week of January. You're gonna run last week of January, that first three day deal?

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, might as well.

[Kenny Schrader]

You're gonna do, you're gonna do the type, the deal you've been doing.

[Herman Schrader]

I'll do what you, yeah, I'll do what you tell me to do, but yes, I'm gonna drive for Hoffman.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good deal for everybody. That's good.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah.

[Kenny Schrader]

But they, they got some new clay and oh my gosh, it was just as smooth as can be. Started out a little slimy, you know, and they blow that off. That's great. There's no grip any place. I mean, you're down there trying to get that left rear against the inside wall. Or you're out there. We've got the right rear bouncing off the top. Got a little crummy, crumbly cushion. No big ledge. I mean, it's great. It just didn't make any difference where you ran. It's just, it made. What we want is good wide racetrack that where the surface is good all the way across. And they have really. It's going to be a phenomenal speed week, speed weeks down there.

[Herman Schrader]

So listen up, everybody. We looked over on SiriusXM Channel 90, and Larry McReynolds has made history by.

[Kenny Schrader]

He.

[Herman Schrader]

He is going to talk about the NASCAR court case. Larry Mack is so we will later, but we, you know, surprising. There's a lot of racing that went on. We got, you know, obviously, Kenny, you were down at Volusia. We have their Turkey bowl up at up north. We got Turkey Night in Ventura. We got F1 in Vegas. So we will talk about one of the biggest stories in NASCAR history, the court case. But Kenny, let's start right there at Volusia. Tell me about that week. Who won and what was up?

[Kenny Schrader]

Damn. Good question.

[Herman Schrader]

Drake Troutman.

[Kenny Schrader]

Drake Troutman. I was home and watched it in the living room Saturday night because we tested Thursday down there. And this was after we'd run at Springfield week four. And we thought we made some headways and we went down there and we, we hadn't. We. We think we got it now, but we were really bad and then got tore up and. Oh, hell, who was it? A couple weeks ago, they interviewed him. Northeast Modified Fuller. Yeah, we broke an interest rod.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. It was time to go home. We were struggling. It was time to go home, Kevin. So we broke an interest ride.

[Herman Schrader]

Kevin Gundaker said something to me years ago about going down to Florida. And you've been down there way more than myself. But, but I do like what Kevin said. I said, you know, Kevin, I said, every time I go to, you know, what was East Bay, that's gone now, or Ocala or North Florida, Volusia. I said, every time I try to bring any of that knowledge back home, it just don't work. He goes, herman, of course, Kevin is in the dirt. Super Late Model hall of Fame. He says, herman, whatever you do in Florida, leave it in Florida. The tracks just don't. They don't work anything up here. So it's a tough area down there, Kenny.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. And when we go down, you know, like, we get. We picked up a new lethal car for Glenn Styers. I talked Glenn last night. He's going down for the first week. It's the last weekend of January. He's going to run the ump mod and his 360 car. And then the next week, he'll run the ump mod and his 410 and sprint car. And then the next week, he'll run his late model and his center steer.

[Herman Schrader]

Now, you know what the normal. You know what the normal person would say. What does that guy do for a living?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, it works.

[Craig Moore]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

He owns Oshawigan, right?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, yeah. Ashwick and Speedway. Yeah, but that's not what he really does for a living.

[Herman Schrader]

Tobacco.

[Kenny Schrader]

I mean, he's no tobacco. Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. Good stuff.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, boys. I guess we will Wall Stadium, too.

[Kenny Schrader]

You ever been to Wall stadium? They had their races up there.

[Herman Schrader]

I was there once for a Bruce Patron deal. Maybe me and you were there.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, I only been there once. We ran fourth on turkey night. Or Whoa, Wasn't turkey night. It was Saturday. It was a weekend. That's like turkey night, you know, Turkey night at Ventura. It's not turkey night anymore.

[Herman Schrader]

So this is what you're talking about?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. I don't know which one it is, but it's wall. They run it every year. Oh, no, it's not. But Turkey. Turkey night. I mean, I used to go to Ascot for years. Go. And when turkey night was at Ascot and Thanksgiving night is when you ran.

[Herman Schrader]

I want to stay right there for a minute because I love this about you. It appears to me that the open will people are the one that take this very serious. And I know you do, too. I know it's not emotional, but I know how much you love racing. That's what you do on Thanksgiving. You race. And it appears Kyle Larson this year. Talk about that whole society there where we race on Thanksgiving weekend.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, it's just they haven't raced for. I saw some notes. What was it? 84 year. What was your notes? Because it was one back to back.

[Herman Schrader]

Great. We got your notes right here, buddy. You said 80.

[Kenny Schrader]

What was it? How many years was.

[Herman Schrader]

Doesn't say. But Craig Moore made these wonderful notes. He says Turkey bow. Corey Day joins Ronnie Householder. 1936.

[Kenny Schrader]

Kenny.

[Herman Schrader]

1936.

[Kenny Schrader]

That's how long I missed the first couple years.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, you will. And then Roy Gussing, 40 to 41. AJ Foyt, 60 to 61. Schumann Gurney. We're just giving everybody an idea how big this turkey night is out west.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Schumann wanted and Larry Howard's car a bunch of times.

[Herman Schrader]

79, 80, 81. 82. Then he came back in 9293. Billy Boat. 95, 96, 97. Brian Claussen. I'm almost done, guys. Brian Claussen. 09. 10. Christopher Bell. 2017, 2018. And as a backto back winner, Corey Day just did it. Kenny. Last time we talked about him, he was upside down. Couple weeks ago at Placerville.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, that race has been a lot of different locations. The Agogenian family still promotes it. 98 laps used to be 100.

[Herman Schrader]

Why is it 98?

[Kenny Schrader]

That's a Indy cars are always number 98.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, so we got two turkey races and we got to clarify them. We have the one you were just talking about up at the racetrack.

[Kenny Schrader]

Stadium.

[Herman Schrader]

Stadium, yeah, that's a turkey race. And then which one are we going to talk about first?

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, I don't know. I just. I didn't. Was having trouble with my streaming Saturday night during the Ventura race, and they were about a third of the way through, and mine kept going off and on and kept stopping. So all of a sudden when the race is over, it went off, but I was only like a third of the way in the race. So it was late and I decided it was a good time to go to bed.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, well, let's go with dirt. That's our favorite. So out at. Kenny, have you ever raced out there where they just got done racing? I got brain fade. What's the name of that track right on the ocean? Newport. No.

[Kenny Schrader]

Oh, right on out. Adventura.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, yeah, that's it. Ventura.

[Kenny Schrader]

No, I don't think I've been Ventura.

[Herman Schrader]

I tried to go there. We were racing Fontana California and that's that. During that time you, I, Kim and we were having a good time and man, the traffic we just couldn't get from the cup track to Ventura because of the traffic. We literally couldn't race because, you know, the. The highways were jammed up. Okay, let's go to flow real quick here. Here it is. Corey day wins the 84th running of the Turkey Night Grand Prix from Ventura Raceway. The only. Listen, it's all good. I'm just playing race fan here.

[Kenny Schrader]

Pretty Larson run right around the bottom. Something like six seventh. Something like that. I think Larson runs six seventh. He started for. He had to run a B. He runs second in a B to get in. And it. It. The track looked like it was going to migrate to the bottom. It has the last couple times, I think. So I don't know if it rubbered or not. This year it was clean, as you.

[Herman Schrader]

Would say it was Clean.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Dyson personally won a wild sprint car feature.

[Kenny Schrader]

That was good.

[Herman Schrader]

I saw that Sprint car guys were roughing each other up. I mean right rear and the left rear. And Carson Macedo sent Mitchell Moles. Did you see that one in turn four?

[Kenny Schrader]

I don't remember.

[Herman Schrader]

You know what I'm doing? I'm cheating right now. I'm literally on flow on my phone watching the highlights. It's so easy to do.

[Announcer (Dirty Mo Media)]

Look at this.

[Herman Schrader]

Watch this. I gotta show you something. You just, you just have your phone right here and there's everything. Look at that. They going into turn one and two. Okay, so that's it everybody. Cory Day wins. And so reminder Kenny, exciting times for him. He's going to drive for Hendrick next year. We did talk about this. He's going to drive in the O'Reilly Auto Parts full time.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, he'll do good. He'll do good. The kid's got a lot of talent.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, go back up north. I don't see anything on our notes about that. We will just acknowledge that they did race up, up at Wall Stadium. Is that what you call it, Kenny?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, Wall Stadium.

[Herman Schrader]

Oh, here it is. I got it all.

[Kenny Schrader]

I don't know if it's wall sitting, Wall Speedway.

[Herman Schrader]

Look at this, Kenny. Right there. There it all is. Okay, so Max Zackam wins the turkey derby at Wall Stadium. And that is Max Z A C H E M. Where's that at, Kenny? What city?

[Kenny Schrader]

Wall. Since. I don't, I don't know. It's in New Jersey.

[Herman Schrader]

Wall Stadium.

[Kenny Schrader]

Daughter went to school in New York and we flew up there one Thanksgiving and then Ann flew home and I hopped in a rental car and went over to. And ran over there that weekend. Flew home Sunday.

[Herman Schrader]

They set up.

[Craig Moore]

That's where the great Ray Everham got his feet wet.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Yeah. It's very special to Ray.

[Herman Schrader]

They. They advertise it as racing on the Jersey shore. The street address is Wall Stadium Speedway, Wall Township, New Jersey.

[Craig Moore]

They.

[Kenny Schrader]

It's. It's like, it's. It's got a lot of bank, but it's like bowman gray with bank. And it's almost, it was just so aggravating. It's almost like a rule. You have to hit the car in front of you in the middle. You know, it just. Everybody runs over everybody. It's. It's a little challenging.

[Craig Moore]

Here you go, Kenny. That. That's where it is right there.

[Kenny Schrader]

Hey, it's close to water.

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[Herman Schrader]

We are going to go to F1 just because it is interesting. It was really neat. Brad Sweet and Brad Sweet and I have brain for Casey Kane. Brad Sweet and Casey Kane were in the grandstands in Vegas. They loved it. And I'm going to start the conversation like this, okay? F1 in Vegas. Brad Sweet, Casey Kane were there as fans. Not sure about the race but it is about elite status. So Max Verstappen wins and people are just partying because they're, you know, Max wins by one mile and the cars go by. Then five seconds later another car goes by. So what is it about Formula one now? We, we already know but for the sake of the show. What is it, Kenny?

[Kenny Schrader]

You're asking me about Formula one?

[Herman Schrader]

You're a racer.

[Kenny Schrader]

I don't have a clue.

[Herman Schrader]

It's expensive.

[Kenny Schrader]

It's expensive. I like a couple of movies, you know, they made. But no, I mean it's, it's expensive. I, I mean I hear $300 million budgets and stuff. I know that might be more than that now.

[Herman Schrader]

So when I went over to Europe last year and my friend John Scottoni we, we went to Rome and then we got on a train, we went to Modena where Ferrari was. So Lewis Hamilton, you know, leaves Mercedes and goes To Ferrari, Kenny. The fans over there. I wished our fans. It reminds me of our old days. We were there in the winter and the fans found Ferrari. We were there. It was a total timing deal. We were just very lucky. The fans were hanging on the fence in the winter because Lewis was at Ferrari and so was myself and John. They have their own racetrack. The fans were going crazy.

[Kenny Schrader]

So how many of them fans were them fans there because you were there or because Louis was there?

[Herman Schrader]

You know, you know, Formula one to get a hold of things. They said, okay, because all the Ferrari, Mercedes, they all build their own racetracks. They build their own wind tunnels. And Formula one said, okay, stop. So that it's illegal for the teams to run on their own racetracks. Only if they have a new driver has to be approved. They cannot use their own wind tunnel. So all that money. But my point is, is even the poor people love Formula one. I. I think they dream of being wealthy is what they're telling me. It's this elite status. You can go there and act wealthy. And why is that?

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, I think you. I think you need to be wealthy if you go there. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think you can just act it. I think you need to. I think you need to be wealthy if you go there.

[Craig Moore]

Even as a fan, some of the. Some of the social media posts I saw about food prices were just unreal. But hey, more power to them.

[Kenny Schrader]

We were out Vegas for the SEMA show. They built a lot of permanent structures out there for that race. I mean, they're not. It's not like they move everything out of the way and make a lot of room and stuff. I mean, they built, you know, bring in all this temporary stuff. They built a lot of permanent buildings out there for that race.

[Herman Schrader]

Well, I'm trying. Everybody. For everybody that's listening to the show today, what is it about F1. What is it? It's just. I think it's about man and machine. Okay, so.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, it's only a worldwide thing anyway. The only worldwide racing.

[Herman Schrader]

That's right. You just led me right down here. Do you know, they are like Kenny Schrader. Kenny, you would love Formula one. Do you know they are still racing? They're the only autosport. Do you know they still. They have to go to Abu Dhabi to determine the championship? Max Verstappen just won Qatar on Sunday. Yesterday.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like it. I don't like carrying a passport. If I gotta have a passport, I'm in the wrong place, other than Canada.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, so F1 races in a different country 24 times. Max Verstappen wins Vegas and Qatar this weekend. That's two in a row. He's closed in on Landon Norris, and basically, if Landon Norris just finishes in the top three, he will win the Formula one championship. But Max is. Here he comes. They truly race all year. They start in March in Australia. Only 24 races, but they go from March to now, December.

[Craig Moore]

Well, think about having to transport everything from place to place. You. You know, it's not like you have a NASCAR hauler. You just go down the road, you got to load these cars, and everything goes on. Container ships, from what I understand.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Is there.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, they're like, every other week, aren't they? They skip a week.

[Herman Schrader]

Is there something to be learned there, Kenny? They only run 24 races.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, I don't think so. I don't think it's our deal. I don't think it relates to NASCAR. I don't see 24. When I started full time, we were only 28.

[Herman Schrader]

Holy moly.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Well, you were there before. I was.

[Herman Schrader]

I know.

[Kenny Schrader]

I just. It was only 28. Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. So in 1984, I was at cup, crew chief for Joe Rutman. And then I was in an apartment right there, and my door. My door was getting knocked on, and it was Kenny Schrader and Ernie Jumper.

[Kenny Schrader]

I talked to Ernie yesterday.

[Herman Schrader]

How's he doing?

[Kenny Schrader]

He's. He's moving slower, but he's coming out Saturday for the Dome watch party.

[Herman Schrader]

Is he still gambling down at the casino? My wife sees him every once in a while.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah? Yeah. Yes, sir.

[Herman Schrader]

Good stuff. Okay, so Formula 1 runs 24 races. They race all year long. They start in March, end in December. And there's. In my opinion, there's something there. I'm not going to advocate for anything. I'm just going to say, I heard Dale Jr. Say one time, I like the NFL. They only have 16 games a year, and they leave you wanting for more. Sometimes when you race so much, it's like, oh, they're racing again. Where were they at this week?

[Craig Moore]

That has always been my point, Herm. I've. I've been saying that for years. When the NFL season ends, you want more. When the NASCAR season ends, you're kind of like, okay, take a break.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Craig Moore]

And. And then, you know, you start getting. I'm not saying that the NASCAR season's too long, too short, whatever it may be. I just know that when you leave fans wanting more at the end of the season. That's a good thing.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. I love racing as much as Kenny Schrader does, and I, I think that's a. And here's, here's the people's rally cry. Well, you give them a week off and they go do what they want to do. I'm like, duh, listen to what you just said.

[Kenny Schrader]

But that's not the problem. It's the problem is the, the people to come out and watch it that many times.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. Well, I would like to see just a little. Maybe by. Hey. As Mark Martin would say, I'd like to see a little bit more like the good old days. Okay, Kenny. We still got more racing. The Gateway Dirt Nationals. So it's Wednesday as we air this. So tomorrow, the Gateway dirt nationals downtown St. Louis. It's the ninth year. It's where the don't. Where the Rams used to play football. This has turned into a barn burner event. Brandon Shepard and Bobby Pierce have won the most races, but you're gonna have the fan. It's Wednesday. I see Ann is scheduling some fans to visit your shop.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, we've done that last two years. There's some stop by. You know, I've never ran the Dome. I'm amazed that it's been nine years now, and I'm amazed that his has grown. And they say this year is going to be exceed everything yet. So, you know, they've done a. They've done a phenomenal job there. It's part race, part hole jumping contest, but they've had the track a couple times. Very smooth. And it, it doesn't make much. Doesn't make a very exciting race. So I, I think that's part of it. We just elect not to go down. But we will be watching every night. We will have. We will have our subscription to Flow and we'll be watching that race every night because it's a barn burner.

[Herman Schrader]

The promoter, Cody Summer announced on Gordy Gundaker's podcast. It's called the Dirt Parlor. It's a good podcast right up here in St. Charles, Missouri. And Cody Summers said we will have 35 to 38, 000 people. They definitely had to open up the second level. Kenny, that is a lot of damn people.

[Kenny Schrader]

Any way you split it at 35,000, it's got to be the biggest attendance for a dirt race.

[Herman Schrader]

Kenny, is. Is it a theatrical event that celebrates. I always say it's about celebrating dirt racing. Yeah. I mean, because when. If you Win the race. It's awesome. But people just. They come out with these paint schemes. Cody Summers says in the driver's meeting, he says, gentlemen, if you want to be invited back, make us remember you.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. No, Cody's done a. Cody's done a phenomenal job. It's. It's like Chili Bowl.

[Herman Schrader]

Oh, good point.

[Kenny Schrader]

Okay, well, Chili bowl won't work, except in January, February, everybody starts going off racing and all the other months, everybody's got to go, but it's something to do. And now it's on the schedule and it works. And it's. It's amazing the amount of people that they're going to have and how many haulers are going to get broke into and how much, you know, like, happens every year. Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

So our city of St. Louis, that we love, they just can't get a handle on themselves. I wish they would. I love St. Louis, but it is not the best city. I wish the mayor and them would bring out more police. But. Hey, Kenny, getting back to what you said, I agree with you. I think all the stars align for the Chili bowl and the Gateway Dirt Nationals, because the next week you'll be at the PRI show. Is there like this little world, you know, this little tour that goes on?

[Kenny Schrader]

No, it's just there's certain things that have got on a lot of the racers schedules, you know, pri's performance racing Industry show, which it's big show, it's not near as big as sema, but everything we need or any racer, no matter what you're racing, what type of vehicle you're racing, the hardcore racing parts are at pri.

[Herman Schrader]

I know a lot of people like Chad Weirs, and they will leave St. Louis for the Gateway Dirt Naturals and go right up 70. So just kind of tagging on to what you said. The date is perfect. Chili bowl date is perfect. It just.

[Kenny Schrader]

We're at. At Gateway Dirt Nationals. I got to be pulling a little bit for more than a little bit. Oh, Jason Faker.

[Herman Schrader]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Schrader]

Painted up his car like our old Kodiak car. And I've always been a Jason Faker fan anyway, and, you know, he's not afraid to bounce through holes, but, you know, he's always. He's always one of the guys there.

[Herman Schrader]

You know, Fager over the last couple of years, you know, he won the Mars Championship this year, but I watched Faker just about every night on Flow, and he has got really good at rolling that bottom. Kenny, he won. He's won a lot of races on the bottom, but he made himself famous on the high side. He's really the best, I think Jason Fager's ever been.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yep. Chub Frank talking about Jason Fager. The high side Hustler.

[Herman Schrader]

That's it.

[Kenny Schrader]

Said they're. They're at. I don't know where they were at. They were someplace 19. Oh, something with where they're running over the infield tires. You know, it's. It's migrated to the bottom, and they're running over the infield tires. And the high side Hustler knocked his left side off while he's straddling the tires.

[Herman Schrader]

Jason last year shocked everybody, and that's when he started rolling the bottom here. Lately, he. He did it. He rolled the bottom in Highland. Not this year, but last year. And the dirt racing. Dirt racing world went what? And he did it beautifully.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, he's.

[Herman Schrader]

It was in there the whole time. Yeah, I saw that. Number 25, green and white.

[Kenny Schrader]

Looks pretty neat.

[Herman Schrader]

A throwback to Kenny Schrader. What a great tribute.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Excited.

[Herman Schrader]

We all admire you, Kenny. You've done it all, buddy. And I mean that with all my heart.

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[Kenny Schrader]

Hey, I got two good jokes today, all right? I'm gonna tell. I gotta tell one of them.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay.

[Kenny Schrader]

Okay. The sympathy conductor.

[Herman Schrader]

Yep.

[Kenny Schrader]

What he. What he named is twin girls.

[Herman Schrader]

I don't know.

[Kenny Schrader]

Anna one and a two.

[Herman Schrader]

Anna is one. And there's an Anna, too.

[Kenny Schrader]

Anna one and two.

[Herman Schrader]

Good stuff.

[Kenny Schrader]

And Waldo. Why don't Waldo go to the therapist? Waldo, you know, find himself.

[Herman Schrader]

Where's Waldo?

[Kenny Schrader]

That's all I got.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, I really want to thank Greg Moore for this. And by the way, everybody, we are going to get to the lawsuit. Okay? Here's the next story. As we say, racing's over. It's not IHRA known as the drag racing. You know, let me put it this way. You have NASCAR and you have arca. You now you have you have nhra, National Hot Rod association and you have ihra.

[Kenny Schrader]

A lot different though than nascar, than narca.

[Herman Schrader]

Go ahead.

[Kenny Schrader]

Two different entities.

[Herman Schrader]

True.

[Kenny Schrader]

Not. Not same parent company.

[Herman Schrader]

True. Okay, so that's good. That's.

[Kenny Schrader]

That's going to come up in that trial.

[Craig Moore]

Wow.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about the trial here in a minute, but International Hot Rod association with a two million dollar purse have also recently launched offshore powerboat racing truck and tractor pulling. That, that's a little bit about ihra and that is in the notes that Craig Moore has given you and I, Kenny. But here's the breaking news in the garage area. Scott Woodruff, who was with Jags for ever 30, 40 years, is a dear friend of mine and he will be on Kenny Conversation. They are starting a stock car series and they are going to dumb it down. They're getting rid of bump stops, they're getting rid of expensive shocks. The rules are out there and they're going to try to give people a place to race. Let me see. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 races.

[Kenny Schrader]

The tracks too.

[Herman Schrader]

Good tracks.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, they're leasing them. So the tracks haven't said, hey, we want you to come to our place.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, so let's give everybody some dirt. The owner won this massive bid from Elon Musk. He is an electrician. So. The owner of IHRA is an electrician who won a big money bid from Elon Musk. And that's Kenny. I've always said that to you. We need the weird people because they're the ones that got all the money. A smart people. We stay broke.

[Kenny Schrader]

You're. You're putting yourself in the smart category.

[Herman Schrader]

You and I both have money, but we're. This is a joke.

[Kenny Schrader]

Who knows? I mean, you know our sport of racing. Oh, yes. We need another association and another set of rules. Yeah, most definitely. Bring it on. You know, it just. We'll just have to see what happens.

[Herman Schrader]

And the race. Yeah. The races start March 21st. Kenny. Pulaski Motorsports Park, Virginia. Cordell Speedway in Georgia, Newport Speedway, Tennessee. Anderson. Oh, Anderson, South Carolina.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Pulaski Motorsports park again. So they must almost bought that track. Going to be there twice. Two times. Stalham, Indiana, back to Newport, Memphis Motors Park. So really hardly any. Only four racetracks. Couple of them. Two times. Okay. And they are going to separate themselves, everybody by dumbing the car down. Normal, everyday shocks, no bump stops. And we will see what happens. But we will talk to the coo, Woody, Scott Woodruff and see why they are different than everybody else. All right, Kenny, you and I are going to. In the last 10 minutes of this show, NASCAR is being sued for monopolistic practices and 2311 in front row Motorsports, they did not like it that NASCAR told them to sign this charter. Take it or leave it. So Michael Jordan and 20, you know, 2311 with Denny Hamlin and Front Row Motorsports, they said, we're not signing the charter. So they, they said we're going to sue NASCAR because they tell us what to do. And by the way, we want more money. And I'm just going to say this. You and I especially, you're much more mature than me. And I know that I'm loud. You're not. It's ugly and it's for everyone to see. The emails have come out and they have learned they've literally burnt the sport down. Our president, Steve Phelps, said Richard Shielders needs to be taken out back and flogged. He's a dumb redneck. Now, Steve o' Donnell came out and said that the SRX series is our competition and we need to put a knife in the SRX series because they saw SRX as a threat, that they were taking the ratings away.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, they, they. Did they match or equal or. I mean, when, when SRX was at its best, they were having ratings that were good compared to truck and Xfinity, I believe. Wasn't that.

[Herman Schrader]

Yes, correct. Correct.

[Kenny Schrader]

I'm just dumbass. I don't know. I thought, you know, if I was NASCAR and you got all these guys and are going to go Berlin and Michigan or they came to Pele or they went to Wheatland, Missouri, and they're going to go there on a Wednesday night, Thursday night, whenever it was, and they're going to create some excitement. I just, I just think that's good for the sport. But, you know, I can understand why I don't much care about the lawsuit because. And, and don't even. As far as talking about it, because, hell, let's just wait and we'll find out what's going to happen. But I have a big problem. I have a big problem. And I guess this was 2311 that somebody comes into a sport and I'm gonna say our sport, they come into automobile racing and they invest millions and millions to put a couple teams together and build this building and everything, and then they want to change it.

[Herman Schrader]

I hear you.

[Kenny Schrader]

No, I, I have a big problem with that. Yes, all the teams would like to have more money. All the teams would like to, you know, cost less and have, you know, to run cost less to operate your team. Penske signed, Rick signed. Wood Brothers signed, Coach Gibbs sign, Richard Childer signed. It's like, really everybody. And, and I talked to a couple of them and, you know, they didn't get everything they wanted. But you read Mr. Hendricks quote and said, well, and you're negotiating. You don't usually get everything you want. But we, we got rid of some stuff that we wanted to get rid of, and we got some more, and we negotiate, and now we're full speed ahead. But a couple teams decided that it wasn't gonna be that simple. That's just looking at just black and white. That's just the facts. Now, I don't know whatever what everybody. What they want, but, you know, want more money. Well, you know, I'd like to have more money, too. Guess what? I don't know who I can sue. I bet if I could get my wife's money, I could sue her.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, I am going to be the bad guy here. In my opinion, our friends. I love Roger Penske. You know how much he's done for our family. And, and Rick Hendrick and all the owners, they signed this Racing alliance agreement. They created the Racing alliance, and all the teams are signed up and they said, we're gonna start talking to nascar. And in the end, you and I know who the drivers are. Then they got the drivers over here. So all the owners and all the drivers went to nascar, they ganged up, and they said, we want more. It's kind of like, how the hell did this start? Yeah, how the hell did this start? Well, it started with all the car owners signing Racing Alliance. It made that group strong. But first we're just going to go get cheap diesel fuel. And then they went to NASCAR and they said, hey, you guys are getting $1 billion a year. We want more. So I think it's great that Michael Jordan is meant to be the bad guy. Obviously, he can handle it. And the other. The. The others make so much money, they don't want nothing to do with it. But before we all pile on 23. What the hell's 23? 11 in front. Oh. I mean, all they are is the scapegoats. You know, the other car owners are like, man, I hope they win this damn thing.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, okay, all the car owners were begging for a. Some kind of a agreement before it went to trial, you know, for them. For them to come to some kind of agreement. And I don't think all the car owners are begging for them to win now. Yes, there could. There could be financial help, maybe, if they do win. But what's it going to do? At what cost? What? At what cost? You know, what's it going to do to our sport? What's it going to do to attendance? How many fans are we going to piss off? How many sponsors are we going to piss off? Hey, this isn't. We didn't. We're not involved in this thing, you know, like a sponsor. We're not involved in this deal to be in the middle of something like this. We'll go sponsor something else, you know, I mean, it's. Nothing really good can come from it, I don't think.

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[Herman Schrader]

Nice.

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[Herman Schrader]

Our best friend in life, Mark Martin and everybody in the sport. You know, I had Mark. Mark was in town here. It's like, mark, what are you doing? He's like, if they let this be Kenny, it's going to delegitimize what me and Schrader did. He didn't say your name, but he's saying the gimmicks now. He calls them gimmicks. So it started back then. This. The lawsuit's just. It's just over here. They have destroyed our sport for the last five years by saying the points are no good, the TV's no good, and I'm like, you. It hurts me because it was. It made me and you a good life. We are in trouble right now, and I pray our fans don't get run off. I hope they come back.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. I don't know. The drivers are. Yeah, okay. Drivers. Just the puppets. If. If we just puppets if. If the 36 drivers that run them charter cars. If. If all of a sudden it's like, hey, not a One of you are coming back. Well, it'll take a couple years, but there'll be 36 more guys. You know, the car owners are vital.

[Herman Schrader]

They're everything.

[Kenny Schrader]

But the drivers are. Drivers don't control this deal. I like to think you do, but.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, this one hurts me, but I gotta address it. Steve Phelps came out. I mean, I'm not going to fight with you on it. It could be the Wood brothers, I say, are probably over Richard Childers. I would say Richard Childers is our second most heartfelt car owner in NASCAR today. I would say Wood brothers. Then Childress, he's.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, no argument.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay. So the problem is, is the judge said, gentlemen, you better solve this behind closed doors because you're getting ready to burn the sport down. Because we're going to have to show all the emails. So now the emails are out there, and the fans and the sport are like, oh, my God. I mean, I know people in the industry, and I'll tell you, when we get off the air, they've called me. I mean, I'm shocked. The ones that called me and everybody in Charlotte, North Carolina, right now, they are worried. They are devastated because the leaders at NASCAR said, we need to take our most famous car owner and beat the. Out of him. And, And. And NASCAR knew this was coming out. It ain't like they go, oh, boy, look what came out. Because they tell them what's going to come out now. They said, Steve Phelps called Richard and they said, richard, we're sorry. Well, then five days later, Richard says, I can't believe you all did that to me. I'm going to read his statement right now. Richard says RCR and Richard Childress are deeply disappointed by the insensitive and defamatory statements made about him and leaked text messages. They believe these comments reflect a historical negative view of team owners like Richard Childress held by some NASCAR executives. RCR expresses disappointment from the. For the NASCAR fans with whom Mr. Childress identifies due to his background. And then at the end, they say RCR states that they are contemplating legal action and consult and consulting with legal counsel. So I thought.

[Kenny Schrader]

I thought there was something in the charter that you couldn't do that, but there you go.

[Herman Schrader]

There you go. Yeah, I'm with you.

[Kenny Schrader]

If it don't make any difference, we'll find out what's going to happen.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay?

[Kenny Schrader]

It's just. It's not. It's. It's. It's not gonna be good. Not gonna be good for the sport. No matter how they rule, it's not good. For the sport.

[Herman Schrader]

And with that, everybody, we made it to 50 minutes and we address the elephant in the room for all of you. I will say that.

[Kenny Schrader]

How long could this thing go?

[Herman Schrader]

Oh, well, they're gonna. Whoever loses is going to appeal it, Kenny. And they're all saying that it's going to go to the U.S. supreme Court because it's one of the larger sports in America. It's not like we're playing softball over here. You know, it's the largest motorsports in America. In America. So they say it's. It's not going to end. Trial set for going two weeks. The loser's going to appeal. It's going to go to this court, and then we're going to see what happens. That's what they say.

[Kenny Schrader]

I talked to Eddie Wood, you know, and they had, they had like till midnight that night or something to sign. I guess it was on some docusign or something. He said him and brother Lynn is sitting there. Oh, okay. Penske signed. All right, Rick sign, coach sign, Childer sign. That's enough for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll. We'll sign, too. But yeah, I mean, everybody wants more.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay. We did our best, everyone. We couldn't trash either side. We just had to talk about what's up. I said what I wanted to say. I think we're all hurt and this is scary business. All right, anything else, guys?

[Kenny Schrader]

Gonna be interesting off season. But there is no off season anymore, you know?

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

[Kenny Schrader]

But I mean, I guess there is compared to what we used to do. We used to be the first and third weekend of January testing at Daytona.

[Herman Schrader]

Hey, in other good news, I don't know when they're going to do it, whenever NASCAR is going to do it, but I am excited to hear the new point structure. Steve o', Donnell, Steve Phelps at Phoenix said we are going to have a new point structure to determine our champion. So when do you think that's going to come out?

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, we don't know if the. If the judge and the jury is going to tell them what they're doing with.

[Herman Schrader]

No kidding. Okay, everybody, we've done our best there, so stay tuned, stay tuned, stay tuned. We can sit here and go, well, here's what they're going to do, but we just don't know. But I sure wish everybody the best, and I don't think we can say anything more that we haven't already said.

[Kenny Schrader]

There's going to be some big hurt feelings.

[Herman Schrader]

Hey, is this Kenny? This reminds me of when you and I would start the races at Bristol and you just go around apologizing to all the drivers before the race starts.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, it's just simpler. It's just simpler. You know you're going to hit them. This is no win.

[Herman Schrader]

Craig, do you have any jokes? I know Kenny already gave us a couple.

[Craig Moore]

I got some jokes. Yeah, but, you know, I. Kenny, you know Schrader over here stealing my thunder on the jokes, but I've got some jokes. So here we go. Why did the coffee taste like dirt?

[Herman Schrader]

Don't know.

[Craig Moore]

Because it was ground just a few minutes ago.

[Herman Schrader]

All jokes are becoming cliches now. I've noticed.

[Craig Moore]

Yeah. What did the cow say to the leather chair?

[Kenny Schrader]

No.

[Craig Moore]

Hi, Mom.

[Kenny Schrader]

Oh, brutal.

[Craig Moore]

I got one more, but it's.

[Kenny Schrader]

You hear about the new restaurant on the moon?

[Herman Schrader]

No.

[Kenny Schrader]

It's got great food but no atmosphere.

[Herman Schrader]

That's awesome.

[Craig Moore]

Why can't dinosaurs clap their hands?

[Herman Schrader]

Don't know.

[Craig Moore]

Because they're extinct. Come on.

[Kenny Schrader]

Need to think about that. That one should be able to catch. Yep.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay. All right, everybody, listen. Craig Moore, we love you. We love you for knowing and loving dirt racing so much. You've been fantastic. Shrader and I are going to miss you.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yep.

[Craig Moore]

I'm gonna miss you guys.

[Herman Schrader]

And listen, everybody, this is our last show. You will hear the best of coming forward.

[Kenny Schrader]

I hope they got a search there.

[Craig Moore]

We.

[Herman Schrader]

We are going to enjoy Christmas just like everybody else in the industry. And until the next Herman Schrader show, you can find us on Kenny Wallace, YouTube or Dale Jr's Dirty Mo Media. Until the next time, we'll see you later.

[Kenny Schrader]

Bye.

[Announcer (Dirty Mo Media)]

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