Rick Mast: Selling A Cow To Race In NASCAR

Summary

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Herm & Schrader: Rick Mast – Selling a Cow to Race in NASCAR

Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: Kenny Wallace & Ken Schrader
Guest: Rick Mast
Producer: Dirty Mo Media / SiriusXM

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Episode Overview

This episode features beloved NASCAR veteran Rick Mast, joining Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader for a lively, heartfelt, and at times, deeply personal ride through racing history and life lessons. The conversation spans Mast’s rural Virginia roots, his humble beginnings in racing (including truly selling a cow to get his first race car), the historic Brickyard 400 pole win, the realities of fame, and rich, funny, and sometimes emotional reflections on what it all means. The discussion is both hilarious and touching, filled with stories never before shared so candidly.

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Main Discussion Themes

• Rick Mast’s upbringing in Rockbridge Baths, Virginia
• The transition from rural farming life to NASCAR
• The epic tale of the first Brickyard 400 and winning the pole
• Navigating NASCAR’s changing landscape and traditions
• The value of humility, hard work, community, and change
• The friendship and mutual admiration among “the Kennys” and Rick Mast

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Key Segments & Insights

Hometown Roots & Humble Beginnings

[03:56–11:18]

• Rick Mast shares about his tiny hometown of Rockbridge Baths, VA (pop. ~100), the local history, and the healing moss of “the Bass” resort once frequented by Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee.
  • “You just light up, you know, when that racing stuff showed up in the mail.” —Rick Mast (02:10)
• Mast’s upbringing was simple—country, resourceful, “very Tom Sawyer existence.”
• Explanation of the friendly rivalry between West Virginia and Virginia.
  • “Around here, it’s not a big deal…but you get to that line, it becomes serious.” —Rick Mast (09:14)

First Brickyard 400 – Making History at Indy

[11:49–32:10]

• Kenny Wallace introduces the Indianapolis Motor Speedway moment: Mast set quick time and won the pole for the inaugural Brickyard 400.
  • “You are etched in history forever…at 171.726 mph. You are in the history books forever.” —Kenny Wallace (12:01)
• Rick reflects:
  • The event’s hype—two years building up, 50,000 fans at a tire test.
  • Overwhelming press attention, new rules (the “yellow coats” and formality of Indy), and a culture shock for NASCAR teams.
  • “I ain’t never seen so much press…there were people there I never seen before. It was the damnedest thing.” —Rick Mast (15:58)
• Detailed walk-through of a lap at Indy: Taming the flat, fast, intimidating corners—“At the end of the straight, all you see is a friggin’ wall…you gotta make a sharp 90-degree turn and it’s flat. Your foot says keep it in, your brain says you stupid ass, this can’t work!” (19:49–22:03)
• Sharing a special moment with Dale Earnhardt Sr. before the race, and the pressure delivered directly by Bill France: “Do not embarrass me or this sport.” —Bill France, recalled by Rick Mast (29:13)
  • “At that moment, Dale Earnhardt was humbled.” —Rick Mast (29:53)
  • “You know I’m leading that first lap, Rick.” —Dale Earnhardt Sr. to Rick Mast (29:58)

Tradition, Change, and the Magic of Indy

[32:41–36:12]

• The shifting significance of Indy for NASCAR—transitioning to the road course, and the loss of “the magic” of the original Brickyard event.
  • “It was totally magical…hard to put a word to what that event was.” —Rick Mast (34:32)

From Selling a Cow to Racing

[40:24–44:47]

• The origin of Rick Mast’s racing journey: literally selling his 4H calf to buy his first race car.
  • “I sold this dude for $575…went and picked up that ’57 Chevy race car that was wrecked, with a motor and a little trailer, and that’s how it started.” —Rick Mast (41:04)
  • “Sixth race out, we won with that car.” (42:22)
• A run-in with the law for speeding (“before I had my driver’s license”), paying his own fine after a judge’s stern warning, and using his race winnings to do it.

The Power of Calm & a Transformative Friendship

[44:47–57:54]

• Kenny Wallace describes a pivotal moment when Rick advised him to “calm down” on pit road at Dover, a piece of advice that changed his life.
  • “You don’t know this, but you saved my life.” —Kenny Wallace (45:56, tearfully)
• Rick’s approach: growing up witnessing fights at the track, realizing the value of peace early, plus lessons from legends like Richie Evans.
  • The last words Rick heard from Evans before his fatal crash: “Work hard, treat people right, and be happy.” (50:05)
  • “It made me realize there’s a bigger picture than this lap you just ran.” —Rick Mast (51:07)

Success, Survival & Earning a Cup Ride

[57:54–62:59]

• Reflecting on helping others, the importance of empathy, and the challenges of making it in NASCAR without backing or a “clique.”
• The story of landing the Skoal sponsorship with Richard Jackson while $50,000 in debt—the behind-the-scenes of making it, including the decadent sponsor trips and the instruction not to “embarrass the company.”
  • “If you win on Sundays, that’s just icing. All I ask is, do not embarrass me.” —Lou Bantle, CEO of US Tobacco (62:21)

The Sacrifices and Lasting Impact of Racing

[63:09–65:28]

• The cost of commitment to racing—putting it over family and faith until making it to Cup.
  • “I put it before God, before my family, before my finances, because all I knew was I had to have my race car on the track at 8 am, and I had to be able to win.” (63:20)
• A companion anecdote from Jeff Burton on similar sacrifices and the after-effects on family.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On racing’s impact:
  “My daughter Brooke does not like NASCAR today…she said, ‘Dad, I saw what it did to you.’” —Kenny Wallace (64:44)
• On staying grounded:
  “It’s kind of like being anointed by the Pope, you know?” —Rick Mast on being accepted by Richie Evans (49:29)
• On helping others:
  “You…come across to me as one of those guys that’s just good-hearted, sober. I wanted you to succeed.” —Rick Mast to Kenny Wallace (56:05)
• On beginnings:
  “We call it a shop: it was four poles and a stick over the top.” —Rick Mast (41:30)
• Motivational mantra:
  “Work hard, treat people right, and be happy.” —Richie Evans / Rick Mast (50:05)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Rick Mast’s Hometown & Family Roots: 03:56–11:18
• The Brickyard 400 – Setting the Pole: 11:49–32:10
• The Magic & Decline of Indy: 32:41–36:12
• The Cow Story & Early Racing: 40:24–44:47
• Kenny’s Life-Changing Conversation with Rick: 44:47–57:54
• Getting the Skoal Deal / Making It Big: 57:54–62:59
• Racing Sacrifices & Family Reflections: 63:09–65:28
• Emotional Closing Remarks: 65:28–66:58

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode delivers everything fans love about Herm & Schrader: rich stories, raw honesty, big laughs, and genuine affection between friends. Rick Mast’s storytelling is full of humor and humility, while Wallace and Schrader bring out deeper insights and humanity—showing what it really takes, and what it sometimes costs, to live a dream in NASCAR.

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For More

• Listen via Dirty Mo Media on all platforms.
• Follow on social (@DirtyMoMedia) for updates and gear.

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Summary by [Podcast Summarizer AI] — For listeners, new and old, who don’t want to miss a single story worth hearing.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Rick Mast]

The wrongs we must right, the fights we must win, the future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are marines. We were made for this.

[Kenny]

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything and anything you need for your car, truck, whatever it is. This next guest is most likely my longest friend in nascar. The Great. Now don't hide, Rick Master.

[Rick Mast]

I'm not hiding. I'm not. Hey, man, let me tell you something. Back in the day, I spent more money if that Jigs catalog. That Jigs catalog was like a. It was like a Christmas wish. Remember the Sears wish book we used to get at Christmas? Oh, yeah.

[Kenny]

We still.

[Rick Mast]

Well, the JAGS catalog was like that to me. For me, you know what I mean? I used to get stuff from those guys. Never could afford to buy stuff, but I scrambled enough money together and I'd buy me something and that. That UPS package would come. I'd be the happiest side of the man when that stuff would come.

[Kenny]

You're making me happy right now. Along those same lines, do you remember when we would run to the mailbox to read the speed sport to get racing news? Did you have that?

[Rick Mast]

We had speed sport we had here where I lived. It's called Tri State. Okay. And it was just like speed sport, but it was racialized. From Virginia, North Carolina, Maryland, Pennsylvania, in the Northeast, that deal. So I'd get tri State and speed sport. You know what I mean? It was. It was the same deal. Same deal. I can go back so far as. Remember my dad used to get. What was that thing called? Southern Motor Racing Journal or something? It was. Is those guys. I forget the guy's name. If I said the name, you know, it. It was a weekly publication that came out in the 70s, right? Just about cup racing. And we'd get that thing every week. It was. It was like, you know, I don't know. You're like me, man. That stuff would come in the mail, the racist stuff. You just light up, you know.

[Kenny]

We had the grand national scene back when you and I ran the Bush Grand National Series. Then it become the Winston cup scene. And it was. It was the only form of reading anything about racing, who did what, and now these babies have taken over.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah. Can you imagine? Can I, can you just imagine if we'd had that crap in the 90s, for me, I, I would either have been a hero or fired or in jail. I don't know. I don't know where it would have ended up, but I couldn't resist it.

[Kenny]

I've. I've gotten myself in trouble, but I've learned to navigate it. Well, Rick, let. Let's start like this. The reason that I called you to be on Kenny conversation is you are one of those people that is admired by everybody. You are loved. You've got a lot of fans. I think it's just because you're genuine. My wife Kim, we're sitting on the couch and she says, she said, yeah. She goes, you got to get Rick masked. Yeah, you. You called her Raquel Welch. Because I said it. But listen, I want to, you know, once again, I just want to let you know the reason that we called you. Are you aware of how big your fan base is?

[Rick Mast]

No. No.

[Kenny]

Isn't that something? Well, let's start like this. Racer Rick, 66 years old right now. You look really good. And you know, if, if I wanted to have a name from where I was from. So in other words, Dick Trickle from Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin. But I'm going to tell you what, buddy, you're leading the way. Rick Mass from Rockbridge Baths, Virginia. That is so badass. Tell me about that. Rock Bridge Bass, Virginia. How many people are in this town.

[Rick Mast]

And you know, our whole county. Rock Bridge is only when, when the colleges are in a session. I think we're like 32, 000 for the whole county. You know, it's maybe a hundred in Rockbridge Bass, a couple hundred in the mailing address. When the colleges aren't in town, which is VMI and W&L, then it goes down by about 8, 000. Okay. But you know where I, where I rock bridge Bass, it's named rock bridge is. We have a thing here, one of the natural wonders called natural bridge. Okay. Yeah, many times. And so the, the county's name came from that. And then where I live, rock was bass. Right down below me, a mile below my house is a. It was a resort. It's a. It's like a 30 by 50 pool. And, and natural warm spring waters come up in this pool. Right. And it was a resort in 1800s and early 1900s. Stonewall. Used to go out there all the time. Stonewall Jackson. Robert E. Lee. Had a place back. He's got a little cabin still there on it near that property. Ulysses s. Grant. All these people used to go and sit in these waters and get healed right? Well, and come to find out. And even when I was a little guy, moss would grow on this, on this pool, right? And when I was little, little boy, if I got stung by beer, poison ivy, my mom would run me down there, put the moss on me, right? Spread the moss on me. And it worked. It. Honest to God, it worked. So Johnny hayes. Did you know johnny hayes?

[Kenny]

And, and johnny hayes, he ran u. S tobacco skull. He was the man.

[Rick Mast]

He was the man for goodwill. I did a lot of broadcasting, too, with ken squire and all. They were all buddies. But anyhow, Johnny was a big, big, big time civil war buff. So when I started going to school, he. He and anne, his wife, would come up here and stay with sharon and I, and we would go out, you know, around the battlefields of Virginia looking. Well, this the bass. I knew the family and the. The man is a famous artist. And he died. Made Pierre dore, right?

[Kenny]

Sounds like a french name.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah, he was french. He was a frenchman. Could hardly speak english, but, yeah, he's famous in that world, I guess. Well, anyhow, the place was for sale and I had Johnny here one dad. I took him down there just walking through the property, and I told him they were selling it. He got all hyped. He'll come out bad. I says, well, I don't know. I'll call. So I called the daughter and she moved away at that time and told her I'd like to buy this place. Is it for sale? I said, yeah, well, I've already given it to the lynchburg college. They have a dora arts center over there. I've already given it to lynchburg college. And I said, well, I would love to have it. And she said, you. Are you serious? I said, yeah. She says, let me think about this. She called me back, says, rick, here's the deal. If you want to buy it, I'm going to tell the college to get. To get it assessed, get the thing fairly assessed, and they've got to sell it to you for that amount of money. So we did that and went and signed the papers. Johnny wrote the check. I'm the one buying it because she knew me, but she didn't know johnny. And I knew that she would fall in love with johnny, right? Anyhow, we bought the thing and Johnny bought it. And I guess maybe two months after he bought it, he called me one Day said, rick, we need to get these paperwork straight. I said, what paperwork? He said, oh, the house down there, the bass. I said, what do you mean? He says, it's all in your name. And I wrote the checkboard. I says, yeah, so what's the problem? Let me tell you something, you son, he, he, he. He enjoyed that thing. And in fact, Anne still lives there a lot. You know, we lost John a few years ago, but that's the rock bridge bass. That's where the name the bass came from for Rockbridge.

[Kenny]

I'll be darn. Thank you.

[Rick Mast]

Very calm, a very Tom. Saw your existence as a child, you know, just strictly country. You know, you got a bucket of boats and you're sitting there trying to make a go kart out of it, that type of deal.

[Kenny]

And we're going to get to that too. We're gonna get to that. I want, I need you to educate me. So I was in natural bridge and I was doing a little TV to help promote the racetrack, and I accidentally said, west Virginia in Virginia.

[Rick Mast]

And.

[Kenny]

And they stopped the camera and they said, kenny, this is, this is Virginia. I said, oh, I'm sorry. So I know we had the war, Civil war, things of that nature. Teach me why there is still a little civil war going on, maybe, fun as it could be, but between West Virginia and Virginia. What's the deal?

[Rick Mast]

Yeah, I guess. I guess when you go to that state line, the closer you get to the state line, we're right at the outskirts of it. But if you go over the mountain here, 30 miles to Covington and Clifton Fords, that's what it really becomes prominent. You know, they. The. Honestly, the further you get over there, over here where we're at, it's kind of a joke, right? Yeah, it's a deal. Like the people felt the people of West Virginia were beneath them, okay? Yeah. And the people of West Virginia felt like the people of Virginia were these pompous ass, arrogant people, right? So that carried on for generations. And like around here, it's not a big deal. I be jokes about it, but you get to that state line, it becomes serious. You know, it's like an Auburn Alaba, Alabama Auburn robber or Virginia Tech UV Alb. I mean, it's real, right? And you know, I've always heard it and joked about it and heard people joking about it, but there's a million jokes out there both ways that go both ways, right. When you talk about West Virginians or Virginians and some people really care, it a little bit more serious than it should be and what it really is, actually, I think. But years ago it was a big deal. I mean, it was a serious deal, but not so much now.

[Kenny]

I'll never forget that, man. Stopping right away. It scared me. Like, what did I do wrong? Virginia.

[Rick Mast]

Same way. We're the same way. Now. The Blue Ridge Mountain goes through the center of Virginia, right? And we're in the western part of Virginia. Well, we're the same way towards eastern Virginians down. I mean, there's a, there's. In fact, I told Donald Trump when he was running for president, I met him one time, him and Pence, and I told him, I said, y' all going to win this election. And when you do, I'm going to come and visit you, visit you in a couple years. And we want to take up Blue Ridge Mountain and we want to succeed from a west west rest of Virginia. We want to become West Virginia from everything west of the Blue Ridge Mountain. We want any part of that. So it's just funny how these territorial things work out, man. Yeah.

[Kenny]

Blue Ridge Mountain, Shenandoah river, man, what a great song. You know, I went to Winchester, Virginia for the Apple Blossom Festival.

[Rick Mast]

I saw that.

[Kenny]

Really had a good time. Well, Rick, let's call an audible here right now, okay? Let's. Let's go to racing. And then I want to come back to the start of your career.

[Rick Mast]

Okay?

[Kenny]

So we are all known, whether we like it or not, we are all known for something we do that's big in life. And there, there's so much to you, and I know that, and I respect you a lot because I know how you got to where you got to, but let's see.

[Rick Mast]

The feeling is mutual, by the way. But go ahead.

[Kenny]

Thank you. Let's immediately go to Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the very first ever Brickyard 400. NASCAR decides that we, you, I, all of us, we're going to invade the Indianapolis Motor Speedway with these taxi cabs that we're driving, and we're going to go on the holy ground of IndyCar racing. And when we go there, the man that I'm looking at right now, you, Rick Mast, you are etched in history forever because you run the fastest lap in NASCAR history. You, you set quick time, you start first. You're on the pole for the very first ever NASCAR race at Indianapolis motor speedway at 171.726 mph. You are in the history books forever. Just talk about that moment in time and maybe we can go back and forth.

[Rick Mast]

Kenny, the thing about that, I, I, equate that deal to the fight at 79 at Daytona on CBS. Oh yeah, I equate it to Winston coming to the series. The reason I say that when you're in the moment, you don't kind of realize what it is after the fact. You look back and you understand it better. You got a clear understanding. But you know, two years before it happened, we knew it was happening. And that's, that's what everybody talked about for two years in the garage area in the indie. Indie, indie. It was the damnedest thing for two years. And then everybody goes up there for that tire test and we have what, 50, 000 people show up for a friggin tire test. I remember going out, I remember going out to one of that steak restaurant, I forget the name of it. Not too far from racetrack, got the.

[Kenny]

Real hot sauce for the shrimp.

[Rick Mast]

That's it, that's the one. I'm sitting there eating. I'm sitting there eating and people come over and get biograph, right? No, that's when it first dawned on me maybe we're onto something because we're not in that market at all. I mean, the closest to that market is what, Michigan, I guess, at that time. And I'm not a prolific winner, right? I'm not a Dale Earnhardt or Rusty Wallace. But people come over and get my autograph, I'm like, huh, maybe something to this thing, right? So then the hype and all the crap leading up to that race will finally we go up there and test and it's the same thing every time we practice. You know, you go up there and you get pounded with autographs everywhere you go. And anyhow, we finally show up for the race and it's like the damnedest thing. I mean, you know, and we changed a lot of stuff. I mean, you know, I remember before we go went up there, we got coached on the yellow, the yellow coach, the yellow jackets. Oh yeah, right. The guards did that bunch. They coached us on the yellow guards. This is not a typical NASCAR deal with security guards. These are the yellow coats or the guards. They do things differently and we will abide by their rules. And the way they do it, I'm like, damn, you know what I mean? You can't do this, you can't do that. You know, you're on and on and on. So you know, even NASCAR was bowed down a little bit, right? Like, all right, we got to do it their way to show up because there was some animosity going on. I remember the quotes from a lot of the IndyCar guys, you know what I mean? They did not want us up there, and they made their. They made their opinions known, and. And that was cool. It's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it was friendly and because, as you well know, we all get along, us and Indy car guys, we've always got along great with one another. There's never been that type of thing. But they didn't want us to do solid grounds, right? And so we had to fight that off a little bit. And then we finally get up there for the race week. I'm reading articles, Kenny. I'm reading articles and quotes from my guys, my drivers, and I'm not recognizing the quotes. The. The quotes. I need to dig some of that stuff up. Maybe you can do it sometime. But some of the quotes were not quite, like, normal. They were like. I don't know. They were like, how can I say this? Buttoned up, wine and cheesed? Or, you know, it wasn't the same.

[Kenny]

We say, real good. Thank all the boys back at the shop. And they're like, yeah, but in the bonnet up.

[Rick Mast]

Yes, it was that. It was that.

[Kenny]

Put the hood down, put the window net up. And it.

[Rick Mast]

Honestly, that morning of qualifying, I woke up and I was reading the paper, and I was reading some of that crap, and it started to irritate me a little bit. It honestly did. I'm like, what are you doing, man? This ain't us. Right? So part of the. One of the. One of the stories about sitting on the pole when I sat on the pole, and we're in the. In the. In the press room. Well, there's press in the same. Kenny, I'd never seen you. I knew you like, you. I knew all the press guy. I knew all the beat writers before, followed us every week. I knew. I go in this press room and I see those guys, and I see, like 70% of people there I'd never seen before. Right. I mean, this place was packed with press people. I mean, it's the damnedest thing. From all over the world, you know? And I'm up there and I'm doing my thing, and finally, Steve Wade, that freaking Tom Higgins, bless his heart. Yeah. Somebody in the back hollers, tell us about the cow.

[Kenny]

Because I'm gonna ask you about the cow later on.

[Rick Mast]

And I heard him, and I knew who it was. And they said it again, tell us about the cow. And I got so freaking tired of talking about that stupid cow. Right. We'll go into the cow story a little bit. But anyhow, I brought the cow up and, you know, just tell them about the cow. And somebody said, well, what was this cow's name? I said, well, it didn't have a name after midnight. Then it become baby.

[Kenny]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Kenny]

Let's be be race car drivers here for a minute. So you and I know the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is intimidating because we go down the front straightaway. It is a hallway. We got grandstands on the right, grandstands.

[Rick Mast]

On the left, Right.

[Kenny]

You're cheating death entering turn one. When do I turn off into the corner? Do I chop the corner? Do I. Can I arc it? Will I get loose?

[Rick Mast]

Exactly.

[Kenny]

Down the short shoot, you know, barely let off the gas. So tell me in your mind, get in your race car for me. And they're. They're tapping on the hood, fired up. Tell me about that moment, that lap.

[Rick Mast]

Going, going out on the track, going down the back straight. We're getting up to speed, coming down the front. Straight away, you're wide open, right? And you're going whatever the speed is 190 or whatever we were going then. And what I tell people about that track, you get down in the straightaway and you're going that tremendous amount of speed at that time when we're going anything that fast. We're looking at a. Ahead of us at a big sweeping bank racetrack, right? You see the turn, it's banked. You're going to go in there wide open hard and you're going to get in the bank and everything's going to settle down. You go down the end of the front straightaway at Indian, all you see is a friggin wall in front of you, right? Going this way, going this way and you're like this can't work, this can't work. You know, that's the thing that I felt and I talked to other guys about, everybody I talked to had the exact same feeling. How's this going to work? You're going 190 miles an hour and all of a sudden you got to make a sharp 90 degree turn and it's flat and you don't have banking to, to, to, to, to. To catch the car, right? But it's such a long sweeping turn that it works. But you, you know your, your foot's telling you to keep it wide open. Your brain say man, don't do this, you stupid ass. It's not going to work. And you have, you had to get over that quickly, you know, you just.

[Kenny]

Did anybody help you get over that?

[Rick Mast]

No, no, we were all on our own trying to do our own thing, man. Everybody wanted to be heroes at that racetrack. You there was at that first year. There was no going back and forth and helping folks as years went on then we all did that like you do at every racetrack. But in that first year, no it was, it was none of that. You just had to try to, had to figure. And the neat part about it, what I loved about that thing we first got there, you remember they had the time and m. Things in the. Embedded in the racetrack. So you go out and make a lap and you would come in and you'd go over to the little building where they had the scoring sheet, timing sheets. You pull out the sheet and you would look at your car and like enter and turn one to the apex and from the apex to exit and turn one and through the short shoot. And it had that same deal in all four turns. The track down, you break the track down and you could look at your speed in that one section and you could see every others, every other swing out there, the cars exactly what they were doing in that same spot. So you could see where you were losing speed, gaining speed. But to me, it was like tiptoeing. You would turn one, you, once you get through the, the fear or whatever you want to call it of making the course. This reminded me of Bristol. First time I went to Bristol. Yeah, I'd never been on a high back racetrack. Never been out of where I is was that I remember on the, the day before, I was there watching some other cars, running them on the outside of the track, watching these guys going to turn, and I'm like, how in the world is that working? So when I first get out there in my race car, I, I run about 50 warm up laps on the April thing, and I look at the guys going around me up there, I'm like, I remember coming out of getting on the track in three and four, going wide open, going in one. I mean, all I remember is you got the guys are going there, letting out the gas, turning the wheel, right? So that's what I did. I just wanted to turn hard, let out the gas and turn. The next thing I know, I'm going down the back straightaway, right? I'm like, oh, okay, that worked, right? It's kind of the same feeling. I had it in the first time. I got through turn one without killing myself.

[Kenny]

I agree. Okay, so let's go back to that one moment in time. Dale Earnhardt senior, number three, the man in black. He, he is. Quick time.

[Rick Mast]

Yes.

[Kenny]

Then, then you fire your car up, you make your lap, you're faster than him, you're on pole, you're the man. When you came down pit road, could you hear the fans? Could you see the fans? Tell me about that moment rolling down.

[Rick Mast]

It was a damage thing. It was like, it was like when you like at Rocket have a few times when I would lead, you could see the fans doing all that stuff. But it, but at Indy, you come, I mean, when you qualify, you come down pit road. If you've done real well setting the pole, you'll see a crew guy going like that or something. Hello. Came down pit road is like, what in the world is going on with these people? Yeah. And I really at that moment didn't know it was about me at the time. Right? But it was about, you know, because that announcer, you know, he was great, man. He was like the queen squire. That guy forget his name at Indy.

[Kenny]

And he's on it.

[Rick Mast]

He's on it. A new track record.

[Kenny]

It's a new track record.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah, yeah. But anyhow, that was cool. And we come on in and of course you had cut the car off and push it in, you couldn't drive it in, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had, you had to push it and do all that. And then, then it was just set there the rest of the friggin day in. In pure torture, watching 80, 83 cars qualify or 84 or whatever it was, you know, and really when it, when I came in and did that, I'm like, you know, it made me get me in the top 10, you know what I'm saying? Really? Yeah, I did. Because the thing of it is, we've been quick. We've been, we're quick in practice. We were quick up our testing, we were kicking, we were like second or third quickest. The last happy hour practice or whatever before qualifying. And it had rained that morning. And I'm like, you know, and that track is very sensitive. None of us really know what the track does. So I go to aj. Aj. He was sponsored by us to buy.

[Kenny]

AJ Foyt, the greatest race car driver in the world.

[Rick Mast]

In the world. No doubt.

[Kenny]

You will talk to him.

[Rick Mast]

Yes. Because I knew AJ because he was sponsored by U S Tobacco, also with the Copenhagen brand. And we had spent first three years together with Skull. Skull would take me and aj, Harry Gantt and Snake Verdome, right? We were the four drivers that they sponsored and they would take us places. You know, they had a mansion in Watch Hill, they had a mansion in West Palm beach with Dominican Republic, Casa de Campo, reficient trips out west. So I knew these guys and I knew AJ well. So anyhow, when that happened, that morning it rained, I went to aj, I said, aj, here's what my car was. It was neutral, man. It was tiptoeing. Neutral, perfect. It's right. What's it going to do? What's this rain going to do? And he told me, and I don't remember what he said, but he told me how the car, the track was going to be. Here's what track's gonna be from what it was, right? So we bait. I remember it's two rounds of wedge adjustment we made based off of AJ's comments, right? And when I went and qualified, everything was tiptoeing, just perfect, you know, it just, it was balanced perfect. I'm like. And those two rounds of wedge, I know, probably set me on the pole, you know, it probably did. And I don't remember which way it was. I don't remember if it's tight or loose or whatever, but I just remember that happening.

[Kenny]

Yeah. Wow, what a story. And. And Indianapolis Motor Speedway is almost religious, like to them it's, it's, it's. There's a racetrack, but it's like, oh, go ahead and comment on that.

[Rick Mast]

Oh, man, it's. It's like an aura. You go through the gasoline alley, the headboard or where that thing is, you go under. You like, you know, the whole time you're up there because you listen, man, you're listening for two years. And. And then you have NASCAR telling you to bow down to the yellow people. I mean, the yellow coat people, right?

[Kenny]

Yellow gate guards.

[Rick Mast]

Yellow gate guards. And you're like, you know, and when you get there, then you've got all the. The great IndyCar drivers, you know, making their opinions known about these hallowed grounds. And stock cars don't belong there. And so you listen to this stuff for two years, and when you finally get there and the place is so massive, it's just massively big. And the way it's set up is real pristine bridge, shiny concrete everywhere. You know, the garage areas of pit areas, and everything's done differently. And the gasoline alley sign and all the stories you read and everything you hear, you finally get the race car to go out on the track, and you're almost getting chills on this thing. You're like, you know, should I be on here? And you had to put that. You had to put that crap out of your mind. You had to. You had to make sure you. You understood yourself. I belong here. You know what I mean? We belong. And I belong here. You had to. You had to put that mindset out there. If you didn't, he was going to whip you. Because Indy's a tough Indy. That track will whip. You know that, that track will whip you. Trying to make a fast lap, you know, it's just art. It's very, very hard to do that there, you know?

[Kenny]

Yeah, there. There's a. Come to find out, there's literally a creek that rolls underneath the front straightaway. I watched Kyle Petty do a special on it and. And you talked about it. You're not allowed. We are not allowed to have our motors running in the garage. We cannot drive our cars through the garage area. Why do you think that is?

[Rick Mast]

I don't know. It was, it was. It was a precedent that they did. That's what they did with the Indy cars. So if that's what they do with any cars, that's the way we're going to do it with the stock cars. In my mind, that's, you know, everything the way they did with Indy cars for, you know, a century. That's what we were going to do, it was just going to be a stock car instead of Indy car. But we're going to keep everything the same. Y' all not coming in here with Yalls ways. Your NASCAR screwed up backwards southern ways of doing things. We're not going to do it like that. We're going to do it like we do it. We're just replacing the tar a car for a car. And that's. That's kind. I'll tell you. It was a. The driver's beat on. During race day in the driver's beating. I was sit beside Dale. Bill France was giving a speech, right?

[Kenny]

Dale Earnhardt Senior.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah, D. Senior. And I'm sitting side down. And he was talking about the privilege of being there and the task ahead of us and on and on and on and on and on, you know, and you're sitting there like, man. And he finally, he says that when we start this race, gentlemen, he said, well, we go down that. Take the green flag and we go down that first turd. Do not embarrass me or this sport. And he looks straight at me and Earnhardt.

[Kenny]

Because you're on the front row.

[Rick Mast]

Because we were on the front row.

[Kenny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rick Mast]

We're riding around the driver introduction, me and Dale at the back of the convertible and we go down and honestly, this is the only time I've ever seen it. Well, I shouldn't say that. The intimidator was truly humbled, Kenny. Oh, yeah, he looked at me. We were going down the front stretch and hordes of people on both sides of us, right?

[Kenny]

350.

[Rick Mast]

I never seen that many people. Dale looks at me and he says, rick. I said, yeah. Can you believe all these damn people came here to see us? Right in that moment. Dale Earnhardt was humbled. And then right after that, he looked me said, you know, I'm lead that first lap, Rick. I said, bring it on, big boy.

[Kenny]

You let the first beginning lap.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kenny]

Tell me about going down. Okay, you got Dale Senior on your outside. You're going into turn one to 400, 000 people in the grandstands. That's. That's not an exaggeration. That's real. Tell me about your mindset. Getting on the gas and beating out, running Senior into turn one to lead at least the first two. Two laps.

[Rick Mast]

Well, I knew, I knew the whole time setting up for the first lap. If, if we could come off of two with him, me at least my momentum or did even with a fender or so in front of him. I knew if I could do that, then turn two, I could beat him, right? And. And I kind of thought maybe what he would do. So go down in turn one, and he just does this. He does one of these numbers, right? And I got a real good bite with the car and jumped back in the gas quick and kind of beat him off of that. And then we're kind of like this Entering turn two, going in, and by the time I got off of two, I cleared him. And actually he ran the thing. He was. His car turned on him a little bit, got tight, and he run that thing wide open, Run right into the wall. You know what I mean?

[Kenny]

That's a start.

[Rick Mast]

It's a start. He. He hit turn two wall coming off the turn, too. Yeah. I mean, that's how much, you know, he wanted to lead. He wanted to lead that first lap, and everybody did. Hell, they were fighting. Every time we go up there, dude, they were fighting. Your brother was right in the middle of it. That one time with. With dale to be the first car out on the racetrack in that tire test, they got in the dirt, Almost a pissing fight Trying to get the first car out. Every time you did something with that race, you, had to be the first. First to get out on the truck, first to be out there for the practice, first be out there for happy hour, first to qualify. I mean, it was just. It was dirt thing you ever seen. You had. I guess you had to be in that environment in that moment to really understand.

[Kenny]

Right now.

[Rick Mast]

It was ridiculous.

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[Kenny]

Changing our ways just a little bit right now. So at that time, you know, some 20 years ago, it was the biggest thing in life. NASCAR is going to Indy, right? And now it's ruined. You know, the. The racetrack was. Was not good enough. So they said, let's run on a road course through the middle of it, right?

[Rick Mast]

And.

[Kenny]

And now next year in 2024, we're going to go back on these hollow grounds. Does it surprise you how much life has changed that Once, what we thought was the most unbelievable thing in the world. Now, now it's, now it's boring. We don't even want to watch NASCAR on the big track.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah, I, I don't get it. I mean, I do, and I don't. Kidding. I'm like, we can sit here and banner back and forth for two hours about how we got to the state. We got to. Right? But the thing, the thing about the deal with Indy, the test was, all right, we're not getting, we're not drawing big crowds, let's do road course. Well, hell, they didn't draw crowds either, right? They didn't draw any more with the road course than that, so. Or let's at least now, let's put it back to tradition. Tradition. You know, put it back the way it was. I mean, as you know, it's a lot of. It's about TV numbers now more than the grandstand numbers. I mean, we know that TV's driving or sport. That's. That's an accepted fact. And it was sad to me to see that thing go to the road course. It was sad. I understood it and I got it and I went along with it, but at the same time, it was sad to me because I know what we were. I know what it was. I know what, I know what. 400,000 people showing up that track that they felt. I know what we as competitors felt. You know, it was, it was not, not outworldly or something. It's hard to put a word to what that event.

[Kenny]

Magical. Magic.

[Rick Mast]

Magical. It was, it was totally magical. And it just fell in line with so many things that added to the progression of our sport into a mainstream sport. You know, that was, that was one of them. I mean, you go, you, you, you take our series again. We. Our closest venue then was, was Michigan, right? To that, that, that market in that area. We show up there and 400,000freaking people come there, watches it. That's never seen us before. Right. And I guarantee you most of these people have been right, you know, and the King's World deal and all that stuff that goes on out there and Peevely, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Kenny]

I'm a Midwest boy.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah. I mean, in, in. It just, you know, it's kind of like the first year I did my fan club, right? Yeah. First year I did my fan club, who do you think the number one state was? The first year I did my fan club, we had members joining the number one state. By first year, you'd never.

[Kenny]

New Hampshire, Iowa. Iowa. There's a lot of dirt tracks in Iowa.

[Rick Mast]

I have more members for my fan club from Iowa than anywhere. Second was Pennsylvania. Third was Virginia. By my third year, my fan club, Virginia become first. But I was the first year, right? And. And I'm thinking, damn, you know, this thing. You realize the sport's bigger. Been running up down the east coast, Kenny, like we used to do from South Boston to. To. To Oxford, Maine, to Birmingham. You know what I mean?

[Kenny]

You realize you and I started kind of. I mean, you were down south, obviously, you lived there, but I came down to. To join you.

[Rick Mast]

And. And you.

[Kenny]

And I started in the Busch series and, you know, even though it was the second largest form of racing in America, the Cup Series, then Busch series, and maybe IndyCar, but the Bush series, which is now the Xfinity Series, we made a living running, you know, three hours around home. You know, Myrtle Beach, South Boston, Orange County, Hickory. Those were our tracks.

[Rick Mast]

That's right.

[Kenny]

We were on national TV every week, and all we did was leave home that morning and we were back home that night.

[Rick Mast]

That's right. That's right.

[Kenny]

Okay. All right. Let's. Let's have some fun now. Thank you so much for your perspective on Indy, because that is you. And I think it's just badass. And you are Mr. Indy. So I want you to comment on this. You are from Rockbridge, Bass, Virginia, but you have a business administration degree from Blue Ridge Community College. You're a smart man.

[Rick Mast]

Very smart. One of the smartest people I know. Ask me. Just ask me. You.

[Kenny]

You've got some very. You and your wife. You and your wife have done an incredible job with your. Your children. As we know, one's somewhat of an executive at Atlanta. Maybe not an executive, but he. He's big time. Your other one's out west. So tell me about getting this business administration degree. The reason I ask is I think it's somebody like a Ryan Newman, you know, at Purdue. Tell me about you getting that degree.

[Rick Mast]

My dad. It was simple. My dad said I was going to college. He always said it. And I. And Kenny, let me tell you something. I hated school. I remember the first day when I went to school, to first grade. I hated it. And when I graduated as a senior in high school, I still hated it. Yeah, the social part of life. They had a lot of good buddies, right? I played some sports. I played a little basketball, did some things in high school. But, you know, by the 10th grade, my whole deal was racing. That mean I started racing in my 10th grade. And. But in the middle of all that, I, I, you know, my dad said it's going to school. And I didn't really have. I didn't have good enough grades to get in freaking community college. Right. My sister, My sister was a, was in that system and she was. She ended up being a damn doctor. I mean, she had a doctor and she was a smart family. Yeah, she was. And in fact, she helped me get in this little community college. And honestly, this is no joke, Kenny. I was there two years at the same time I built my first asphalt car. I would go to those classes and I would leave, run back to shop, and I'd work on my race car. That's all. Yeah, and, and then working at this, at the, the shop over here, making money. Right. And that's what I did. I made money working as a mechanic. I worked with a race car with school there for two years. But I, I learned more. I put more effort and Learned more in 2 years of community college than I ever did in 12, in the, in the others deal. And I don't know why, it just interested me more. You know, I, I mean, we had a government class. We had a. I know some mathematics classes and different things. And. I don't know, it was two years ago. I'm glad I did it. You know, looking back, some of the stuff I did learn, I did use later on in life. You know, there's a salesmanship class.

[Kenny]

I remember some things in my brain, simple things. And I'm going to give you an example because I want you to answer this. So I remember fifth or sixth grade having a tough time spelling the word vegetable right. I spelled it out. Veg E table. Okay.

[Rick Mast]

Right.

[Kenny]

Childlike example. What were some of the things that you learned in community college? Maybe just one that you remember.

[Rick Mast]

Takes four bits to make a bite.

[Kenny]

Say that again.

[Rick Mast]

It was a computer class and it takes four bits to make a bite. I think it's five, four bytes to make a gigabyte or something. Yeah, I just. That's the only thing I remember about computer class because it wasn't Windows, it was computers. Just remember, dude, this 1976.

[Kenny]

But had a computer.

[Rick Mast]

But had a computer. And all they taught us about was how many bits it took to make a bite. Right.

[Kenny]

Yeah.

[Rick Mast]

I didn't understand what the hell it was.

[Kenny]

Okay, so moving on, we're changing the story right now, so I apologize in advance about what? A lot of people right now, A lot of people right now, they don't know. But when I first started racing with you okay, sir, you need money? You want to build a race car and you're doing all this. Tell us about this damn cow story, dude.

[Rick Mast]

When I was my dad, my dad, I grew up, had a little farm and he had Black Angus cattle. And so I always had a little calf, as when I was a little boy, I had a calf and he would give me a calf out of one of the, you know, one that was born and I would take it down. We had a little shed down there, and I'd keep it in there and I would raise it and feed it and do that and sell it, you know, It'd be a 4H calf, basically. And so the last one I ever had, I guess was in the 9th grade or 10th grade is when I was 15 years old. I had raised this little calf and it was, it was a steer and I forget what weight it was. A damn. Is that Danny? It was a good cat. It was a good, good steer. Anyhow, I sold this dude for $575. Natural bit of speedway as you've raced it many times. Guys up here, out here raced. An older Fella, had a 57 Chevrolet race car. He's gonna quit. I used that money and went. I got that check cashed it went and give him $575 and picked up that 57 Chevrolet race car that was wrecked with a motor and a little trailer. And that's how the thing started. Brought that car back to our little shop. We had, we call it a shop. It was like four poles and a damn stick over the top of it, right? And in fact, we tried to. I tried to paint that thing that winter. I borrowed some kind of prank paint can from somebody. It was cold as hell. I painted come in the next day. All the painted run off the side of it. You know, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, right?

[Kenny]

What year was it?

[Rick Mast]

1973.

[Kenny]

Wow.

[Rick Mast]

Not 73.

[Kenny]

Yeah, not terrible. Long ago. I mean.

[Rick Mast]

So anyhow, we took that car to D bridge and my sixth race out, we won with that car, right? And I had just gotten a speeding ticket, Kenny. And it was before I had my driver's license. And it wasn't really a learner's permit, but it's like something you had before your driver's license. Anyhow, I got a speeding ticket and I went before the judge and he says. And we talked about it and of course I was guilty. 41 and 25 right here in friggin Lexington. Damn goofball cop that nobody ever liked. We finally read his ass out of town. But anyhow, he. The judge looked at me, said, rick, you. You. This is your. This is your deal. This is your fine. I forget what the fine was. He says, you have to pay for this fine. I said, okay. He said, no, I don't mean your daddy or any of your relatives. You have a way. You're in school? Yes, sir. Are you working, too? Yes, sir. He says, well, what could you do to make this money? I said, well, I got a race car run down the racetrack. You know, I win, I can get.

[Kenny]

You're gonna speed, dude.

[Rick Mast]

He had these little reading glasses, like these things. He did this. He looked at me like that. And I said, boy, you guys, you have screwed up. You have screwed up here, right? He did not like that at all. But anyhow, right after that, I did win the race. And you know what I mean, it was like 40 bucks or something. You pay the fine. So that was the beginnings of that cow car.

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[Kenny]

You know, I don't think that's a funny story. I think that's a very inspiring story.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah.

[Kenny]

Because, you know, you're a rancher and you're raising and doing good, so. Okay, I wanna. I wanna say something that I remember you teaching me, and I want you to comment on it. And you might not remember this, but it. It helped me. It changed my life. And you did. You don't know this, but you saved my life. As you know, I was. No, I mean this. I'm very serious when I say this. So as you know, I can't help it, but I was born hyper. The whole deal. So I'm at Dover, and you and I are sitting on pit wall 1989 1990. 91. Somewhere in there. And you looked at me and you said, do you plan on racing for a long time? And I said, yes. And you said, kenny, you got. You got to calm down. Now, you might not remember that, but I remember it like yesterday. And I was probably venting to you that my car wasn't doing this.

[Rick Mast]

Right?

[Kenny]

Yeah. When I look back on that time, I look, first of all, I look up to you because I think you're awesome and you're.

[Rick Mast]

You're.

[Kenny]

You're a calm natured athlete. Where does that come from? And when you told me that, as you're thinking right now in your head, where did you come. Where did you come from? I mean, how did you grow up calm? And I. You know what I mean?

[Rick Mast]

My dad built Natural bridge Speedway in 67.

[Kenny]

Your dad built that racetrack?

[Rick Mast]

Sure. Did he open it in 67?

[Kenny]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is a big story here now. Okay, Keep going.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah. And I would witness as a little boy during the week, the phone ringing off the wall at the house and people calling and just lambasting my dad, cussing and raising. My dad didn't. He didn't hardly have a pot needed in those days, but he was able to make things work. Right. I would listen to people just lambast him all week long, you know, competitors. And it still goes on today, same deal. And I would go to the racetrack as a little boy, I'd watch guys down there, I mean, get in fight. I mean, not playing, you know, not Mickey Mouse. And I mean, fights, I'd watch all this stuff. And then when I started racing, I had to deal with that. I had to deal with that same stuff myself. And in the early days, it's kind of like Schrader told me one time, he said he told a guy, was mad at him, let's sit down, have a beer and drink, talk about it instead of fight, you know? Well, I, I came to that conclusion a lot earlier in life because some stuff I went through here locally, early, you know, with. With. With rough housing or fighting and stuff that you learned, you know, what it really meant to get in a fight. You know, you got in a fight, it wasn't like, you see now, it wasn't that a fight then was a fight.

[Kenny]

I mean, you're like, punching you in.

[Rick Mast]

The face, you're going to. Somebody's going to end up standing and some guy's not right. And I witnessed that and a lot and went through a little bit of it and, you know, over a period of time, and I'LL tell you something else that happened, Kenny, in 1980, whatever. We were at Martinsville. I didn't have. For the big double hitter, you know, the modified. I didn't have radios, right? I had wiring harness, but I didn't have radios. I just couldn't afford them. I went up to Richie Evans, the great Richie Evans, the Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty of Northeast racing, Greatest it ever was, I guess, modified. I just went up to him, introduced myself. I said, rich, you don't know me. I said, but I'll drive it. 22 car was like in the Bush Series or whatever. It was like, I guess he's bush then. I don't have radios. Would you rent me your radios after the race Sunday? And we talked for a little bit. I think it took him back. Anyhow, we ended up making a deal, right? So the race, his race is run first it was over. I go, I would grab radios, his crew guys radio out of his car. I even use his helmet because the earpiece is made in the helmet. I put his sweaty asshole helmet on and run my. Oh, gosh, yes. True story, true story. And the race is over. We run the race. I take my stuff back to Richie. I said, richie, here, I appreciate it. I would, you know, so thankful. How much to owe you? And he looked at me, said, rick, I don't know. I've never rented radio before. I don't know what it's worth. I said, well, I'm not sure either. I mean, I just tell me and I'll pay you, because I finished that day. So I had money, right? Yeah. And we sit there and he. He didn't know what to do. He finally said, you're going to be here for the next race this spring or the fall, whatever it was. I said, yeah. He said, meet me at the Dutch Inn on Saturday night. Buy me a beer. Let's call it even, right?

[Kenny]

Yes.

[Rick Mast]

Like, it's like being. To me, it felt like being anointed by the Pope, you know?

[Kenny]

Yeah, this is Richie.

[Rick Mast]

Yeah. We go back for the next race, and I'm standing on pit road. Then the modifiers are practicing, and we're on the back stretch. And I'm just watching them because we've been on the track yet, and I watch Richie come out of turn two. I watch him go in turn three. I see his left front wheel kick out, right. He locks up. He goes right in the wall.

[Kenny]

Oh, no.

[Rick Mast]

I know.

[Kenny]

I know where you're going with this. I'm so sorry.

[Rick Mast]

And we lost Richie. The one part of that story I forgot to tell you when we were sitting there that morning before the race. I'm trying to joke with Richie a little bit. I say, richie, I said, normally I'd bet on you to win this race day because you always win every time we come down here. I said. But my guy said, they seen you being dragged out of the Dutch Inn this morning at 4:30 in the morning, right? Richie was a partier, right? Richie loved to party. My guys, of course, they were up too. They said. And I said, I don't know if you got drug out of the. You were drug out of the. That's in. At 4:30 this morning. You would have mean from partying. I don't think I'll bet on you today. And he said something and I gigged him a little more. I think it irritated me. Finally looked at me. Let me tell you something, boy. He said, you only hear a blink of an eye. He says, work hard, treat people right and be happy. Right? I'm like, okay. When he hit that wall, Kenny, I was sitting there looking at it. And then when the rescue went there, and I remember Andy hall come by me said, we lost, Richie, right? And I remember thinking, work hard, treat people right and be happy. Right?

[Kenny]

Wow.

[Rick Mast]

And I kind of. I kind of accepted that mantra, you might say. And I. It changed how I started looking at things and doing things right. It made me. I guess it made me realize, you know, it was a little bit bigger picture than this lap. This last lap we just ran and what the car is doing, which leads into your deal, right? You know, you get so wrapped up in that moment of what you're doing, you know, you're just like. I mean, you know the deal. Kenny in nascar trying to get up through where any. Any of this race should really dab it. I mean, you're like trying to put out the hells of fire, the fire hills with a squirt gun, you know what I mean? And sometimes you need divine intervention to help you.

[Kenny]

Everybody that I've interviewed, every conversation I've had, even the greats, they right away go to the negative. They're not happy with their championships or their wins, right? They say they're scarred for life.

[Rick Mast]

I can believe that from the bad stuff. I can believe that because you're so. I try to tell people, like in the 80s, when all I knew is I had to get the cup, I didn't know. I sat on the pole one time at Dover in a bush race, coming out front of the car, Jerry Punch goes by to do a interview, a pre recorded interview for the tv, right? And the next week Jerry comes to me, says, rick, we didn't use that interview last week. I said, why? What do you mean? He said, well, you got out front of the car, you had grease on your face, you were sweaty. I was trying to interview you. He said, well, you could tell the last thing you want to do is be talking to a camera. I said, okay. He says, you want to be a cup driver, right? I says, more than anything, Jerry. He says, people know you. People are watching you. We thank you. You have the talent to do it. He said, but if you're gonna do this, you got to fix it, right? So I did. I went to work, then I took a Carnegie course and I started becoming media friendly. Yeah, yeah. I took a corner their jerk. I called it what I did. I called their jerk. I said, ned, what I need to do, that's what I did. Because I didn't know. All I knew is my car had to win. If it won somehow another that would get me there. It's like right now, the same deal right now. If a guy's been a cup owner, you know, all he knows is if he wins, this thing will work out. If he don't, he's going to hell. Right?

[Kenny]

Yeah.

[Rick Mast]

And. And anyhow, we did the Carnegie deal and through did Jared. And then I started reaching out to the media guys, making, making, forming relationships with them, you know, doing all that stuff. And because I didn't know how to do this, I, I didn't. You know, from this area where I met, it's kind of secluded. If you've been here, you were here. It's secluded from the rest of the race, of the world. You had the Hickory bunch, you had the Richmond bunch, you had the Caraway bunch, you had the Birmingham bunch, you had the Manassas bunch, you had the Maryland bunch, right? Clicks, clicks, the clicks. I wasn't in one of those clicks. I didn't know what anybody else was doing. I never knew what anybody else is doing with their race cars. All those guys knew what they other guys were doing, right? So I was self taught and everything about my chassis and everything I did about building my cars. I mean I was right here in this shop where I'm sitting building my race cars. You would be doing what I thought you needed to do. That's how I did it. It wasn't from help from anybody. And damn, I've done got off track. What the hell?

[Kenny]

No, no, no, no. This, this is so good. It's unreal. No, you're still on track.

[Rick Mast]

You okay?

[Kenny]

I. I asked you, you know, I'm going to remind you where we're at. I'm the same as you. Yeah, okay, so you, you told me one day on pit road, you said, kenny, you gotta calm down. And it. This story you're telling is unbelievable. You're saying that, you know, you didn't grow up in any clicks. Everybody had their own little deal, right? And that you watching Richie Evans die right in front of you and him telling you work hard, treat people good. Oh, I just want to. I want to tell you what you just told me is, Is unbelievable. And one of the greatest stories that. That 10 minute segment right there is very heartfelt. And I want to say to you that you wanted to make it to NASCAR so bad that you went to the Dale Carnegie course so you could learn how to talk to the media, right, with your head up, represent your sponsors. So that, that leads me. God, we're already at an hour. This is insane. Okay, so you end up driving. You go, you take the Dale Carnegie course. Let's change paths now. Let's change.

[Rick Mast]

One second, one stop. When you came to me with that.

[Kenny]

Right, right.

[Rick Mast]

That day, you were, you were. And you brought this up, me before, years ago. Then that made me remember. Back to it. Yeah, that's. That's how I'm still able to remember. If you hadn't brought that up a few years ago, I probably forgot about. But the deal was, Kenny, I was, I would help anybody, do anything. But if, if, if there's somebody I didn't really care for, you know, I didn't do. I didn't do anything. Right. You know, I'd be cordial, nice. But you were one of those guys. I mean, I watched you when you came in. Oh, hell, here's, here's Rusty Wallace's brother, right? Hell, he'll be like the rest of these guys they had to fight with, right? And it become apparent very soon that Rusty was making Kenny Wallace earn this on his own. You know what I mean? Can help you get there a little bit. But when you're there, you better do your own deal, man. Your ass gonna get kicked out. And I watched you. And I was around you and I was around Raquel Kim. And you know, you're one of those guys that. And I'm better at this than I used to be. I used to be pretty good at. But I'm better now. I could, I could. I feel like I'm a good person. Good at Judging people's heart. I, I go off of people's heart, right? I don't give a damn what you say, what you do. I want to see what your inner being is, right? And you, you always come across me as one of those guys. It's just good hearted, sober, right? And I see so many guys in your position. I was in that position. I know exactly what you were feeling, what you were going through. And. But I, I wanted you to succeed, right? And in that moment when you were where you were at and you're so encapsulated in that moment that you couldn't, you know, release it enough to be able to make rational decisions. And that screws you up in racing, man, if you don't, if you get tired. I've seen guys ruined careers running, I can say names and you know them too, of getting in that mindset, and it completely screws them up. And they can't think about the bigger picture because all they're worried about is the last two races and the car is doing this and I can't fix it. Right. Well, you got to get out of that a little bit. You know what I mean? And that's where you were at that point. And I was just trying to, you know, just make you see a light. It's different. And you're not the only person ever said that to something like that, dude. But, but anyhow, that's the reason I did that. So.

[Kenny]

I love you. I love you. And I haven't told anybody I love him yet on the 32 episodes that we've done. And you saved my life that day. Appreciate you so much. So, all right, if you're gonna make me cry, so I gotta keep going here. Okay? You go to Dale Carnegie. You want to make it to the big time. You do, you, you end up being sponsored by the largest tobacco company I think in America. Skoal, right? Just a capsule of your time at school. I mean, was it Leo Richard Jackson, who is your owner? You know, tell me about that moment. You know, you just told us you were with AJ Foy, the greatest race car driver of all. You were Don Perdome, the greatest drag racer. Tell me about that.

[Rick Mast]

Those school times, dude, when that happened again, it's like it need to be. It's magical. This is something you work for your whole life, man. I decided to deal at Dover Delaware for the next year with Skull Richard Jackson and Johnny Hayes for a cup deal, right? I owed $50,000. I was in debt. My sponsor had got up in the middle of the night and left. This is 1990. I go to Bristol, $52 to my name. We win Bristol, right? I got 50, $50,000 in debt. My creditors in the racing it was BSR, Butch Stevens.

[Kenny]

Yeah.

[Rick Mast]

Mike Laughlin, Carrie Bodenhammer for Tex Pal, right? These guys, all these people I owe all these guys. My sponsor supposed to been taken care of. They didn't do it. I said. I called each one of them up. I said, listen, my sponsor left the middle of the night. He left his company the whole deal. You know, the guy glend do the raven boats. But anyhow, you. I said I could sell them now and pay you or if you wait the end of the year. I think I'm gonna get a cup ride next year. I'm working hard, I'm talking to people. If I get that, I could pay you. If in the year comes and I can't pay you, I don't have a cup deal. I'll sell, pay everyone without a fault. Said Rick, run the real year out. Don't worry about us. You pay us when you can, right? So I've always cherished that. So anyhow, I got the skull deal and we signed it that fall. The next January, before you go racing, I go down to Charlotte and I hop on U S Tobacco, which is go hop on their G4 before here sits Johnny Hayes, right? Here sets Lou Bannell, the CEO of the company. And I've never met this dude before, but he's, you know, he'd fire you, fire you, whatever. He's the one who had to prove what Johnny Hayes recommended, right? I look around. There sits Harry, which a new Harry. There's that snake for dome. Here sets AJ Foy. And right across from me, I'm sitting in this seat and the seat turned to be is Lou Bantle. Right beside him sits this tall guy. Didn't know who he was. His name is Tony George, right?

[Kenny]

The owner of the owner.

[Rick Mast]

And we. We're flying along and Harry wants me to sit there. I mean Johnny wants me to sit there across from Lou to have a conversation with Lou to Lou get to know me, right? And I don't know why the hell Tony George is stuck in the middle of this, but anyhow, Harry looks to be. One time we're flying over the Caribbean. We're headed to. We're headed. Dominican Republican, big resort, right? Harry looks at me, he's a wreck. Let me tell you something, boy. That's. What's that. This is the ultimate right here. It don't get no better, okay? Harry, whatever you say. Yeah, so we go down there, we spend like six or seven days at this resort, just us playing golf and getting. It was decadent. It was decadent, man. They fetus and this whole deal. And AJ was on crutches. He just, you know, hadn't been long out of that bad wreck he had at Elkhart. You know, we broke all his feet, you know, he was on crutches. They were having a. They were having a coup going on in Haiti. And we land this G4. And you know, you go through chicken wire at this airport to get to where you're going. And everybody's got guns and little bellotto guys with little short guys, machine guns blaze and it's all guarded. And hey, AJ's worried to death we're going to get taken over. He said people in Haiti, 200 miles away, they're having a coup. They got a 48 million dollar jet over here. They find that out, they go steals. Now how the hell we gonna get home? We're gonna be. We're gonna die here. But anyhow, that was my first deal to scope. And from there to the end, it was just like that magical kitty. Mr. Bannell took that company from a 50 million dollar gross company to me. And a B&5, which ain't large for a Fortune 500 company in gross. But he was always in top five in, in, in earnings.

[Kenny]

Right, right.

[Rick Mast]

Great guy. All he was about marketing, racing and skull, brother. You know, rodeo and skull. And Mr. Battle told me one time, he says, Rick, he says, if you and Harry win on Sundays, he said that's nothing but icing on a cake for us. We've already done that weekend what we wanted to do. He says the only thing I've ever asked of my drivers. Do not embarrass me. Just do not embarrass me.

[Kenny]

Yeah.

[Rick Mast]

Wow. That's the only thing that that group ever ask of me more than what I was doing. Don't embarrass us. Right? Just cool. Cool deal. Cool deal.

[Kenny]

Well, Rick, I gotta tell you, there's more to say. But we've already been an hour. I'm gonna have to have you back on Kenny conversation. I want to thank you so much. From the bottom.

[Rick Mast]

Dude, we got to do that. What do you. I told you to allow more time for this. You can't. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[Kenny]

You know what? It is crazy how fast it goes, right?

[Rick Mast]

Well, our lives, Kenny, and you know this man, our lives in racing. You can't make up this. No, I mean, like in the 80s, dude, I tell people all the time, I was. My. My intent was being Cup. I put it before God, I put it before my family. I put it before my finances. Right? Because all I knew is I had to have my race car at the track at 8 o' clock in the morning and I had to be able to win. Right? That, that. Now, after I got the Cup, I made amends for all three of those with God, my family and my finances. I did that. But that's always. And you're just so consumed with that. And we're all you, everybody, every sweet. You got through that deal. News days. You know, we all come through different ways, but it was still the same emotions, the same fortitude, the same grit, you know, the same attitudes. Well, and we all fought the same thing, you know, no matter how we did it.

[Kenny]

Jeff Burton was on Kenny Conversation, and he said exactly what you just said. He says, my wife, my children knew that racing came first. And I was telling my family about that last night. And, you know, they all just looked at me because my daughter Brooke, I told Jeff this. My daughter Brooke does not like NASCAR today. And I said. I said, brookie, why don't you like NASCAR? She's 36 years old. She goes, dad, I saw what it did to you.

[Rick Mast]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Kenny]

And, oh, man. Well, we came out. We came out, and you've done a beautiful job with your family. And.

[Rick Mast]

And Rick, you, by the way.

[Kenny]

Thank you.

[Rick Mast]

Yes, thank you.

[Kenny]

Okay, this is it, my friend. You know, I want to let all the fans know that they can listen to you, Rick, in podcast form. We are in podcast form.

[Rick Mast]

Sweet.

[Kenny]

They can. They can listen to you on the way to work on itunes or Spotify, and they can turn around and listen to you all the way back to home. But thank you. Thank you for being on Kenny Conversation. It was wonderful. We're going to do it again because I am more. I have more. And thank you so much, Rick.

[Rick Mast]

Thank you, Kenny. Proud of you, man. Let me tell you something. I'm proud of you. I truly am. I'm proud of you. Case closed.

[Kenny]

Can I get free tickets from your son for the. When the car.

[Rick Mast]

If you ever want to go to the Braves game, you know what I mean? Ricky can fix you up. He's swinging a pretty big stick down there. Now, if you're ever out in Vail, Colorado, and get hurt on the ski slopes. Right, right. Katie, my daughter, can fix you up with the best orthopedic surges in the world and be surprised. You'd be surprised that the people that come through that place, of course they got those HIPAA regulations. She tells a whole lot, but it's. It's pretty phenomenal. Or if you're ever here in. In here at home, it needs to be some tops of lessons. My other daughter Sarah can teach you some lessons too, so I love it.

[Kenny]

Okay, everybody, until the next. Hold on, hold on. Never done this before. In the history of the Kenny conversation, we have never done this. Your biggest fan is right here.

[Rick Mast]

Cool.

[Kenny]

Kim, we are live.

[Rick Mast]

Oh, hey, Raquel. Wait a minute, wait a minute. You look good, girl. First time I saw you walking up with Kenny, I says, my God, Raquel Wilt's got a sister. I don't know if you had a sister.

[Kenny]

All right, well, let's do it just like this. All right, everybody, until the next Kenny conversation. We'll see you all later. Check out Dirty Mo media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

[Rick Mast]

The fight for our future starts with belief in our nation and its promise, in our future, future and its potential. Together, we answer America's call to win.

[Kenny]

We are marines.

[Rick Mast]

We were made for this.

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