Ricky Craven: Injuries, Redemption & The Darlington Finish We’ll Never Forget

Summary

Podcast Summary: Herm & Schrader – "Ricky Craven: Injuries, Redemption & The Darlington Finish We’ll Never Forget"

Episode Details:

• Title: Ricky Craven: Injuries, Redemption & The Darlington Finish We’ll Never Forget
• Release Date: August 7, 2025
• Hosts: Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader
• Guest: Ricky Craven

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1. Reconnecting with a Legend (02:05 - 05:22)

Kenny Wallace kicks off the episode by welcoming Ricky Craven, expressing deep admiration and highlighting their long-standing friendship spanning over four decades. Ricky reciprocates the sentiment, reminiscing about their early days in racing and the bond they've maintained despite geographical distances.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (02:39): "I can't begin to describe to the world what you mean to me and like four decades of friendship."

2. Humble Beginnings in Newburgh, Maine (05:22 - 08:35)

Ricky delves into his roots in Newburgh, Maine, discussing how his father’s involvement in racing ignited his passion for NASCAR. He vividly recalls watching his father win races, which solidified his ambition to pursue a career in motorsports from a young age.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (04:33): "From an early age, I had this enormous advantage in terms of parlaying my life into a NASCAR driver."

3. Overcoming Tragedy: Injuries and Mental Health (08:35 - 16:24)

Ricky shares a harrowing account of his 1997 accident at Texas Motor Speedway, which left him battling severe injuries and depression. He describes his path to recovery, emphasizing the importance of finding balance by building a log home in Maine, which became his sanctuary for healing.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (07:54): "I need some balance in my life. I have no balance."

4. The Power of Mentorship and Financial Savvy (16:24 - 22:28)

Highlighting the critical role of mentors like Stan Reserve and Bob Behr, Ricky discusses how their guidance shaped his racing career and personal development. He transitions into his passion for investing, illustrating the significance of financial literacy and the impact of compound interest on long-term wealth.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (17:44): "The power of compounding is the greatest thing that anyone can teach a young person."

5. Transitioning to Media and Maintaining Connections (22:28 - 39:54)

Ricky reflects on his shift from active racing to becoming an ESPN analyst. He opens up about his struggle with depression post-retirement and how reconnecting with racing through media helped him regain purpose. The conversation also touches on his deep friendships with fellow drivers like Jeff Gordon and the mutual support they offer each other.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (23:35): "You gotta wanna."

6. Memorable Races and Enduring Friendships (39:54 - 62:08)

The discussion moves to some of Ricky's most memorable races, including his dramatic win at Darlington in 2003. Both hosts and Ricky reminisce about the intense competition, camaraderie among drivers, and the unbreakable bonds formed on and off the track.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (52:23): "That race defines me."

7. Personal Struggles and Resilience (62:08 - 99:15)

Ricky opens up about his personal life, including overcoming a divorce and dealing with the emotional aftermath of his racing injuries. He emphasizes the importance of a positive mental attitude, continuous self-improvement, and the value of surrounding oneself with supportive individuals.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (83:21): "You will get out of life what you put in it."

8. Historic Finish at Darlington and Legacy (99:15 - 105:09)

Ricky recounts the legendary finish of the Darlington race against Kurt Busch, detailing the tension and strategy that led to his victory. He reflects on how this race encapsulates his career's highs and the lessons learned from intense competition and perseverance.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (99:56): "That race defines me."

9. Conclusion and Future Aspirations (105:09 - End)

Kenny and Ricky conclude the episode by celebrating their shared experiences and the enduring friendship that has helped them navigate the tumultuous world of NASCAR. They discuss future plans and the importance of continuing to engage with the racing community.

Notable Quote:

Ricky Craven (105:09): "I want to spend that weekend with you."

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Key Discussions and Insights:

• Friendship and Support: The deep bond between Kenny Wallace and Ricky Craven is a recurring theme, showcasing how mutual respect and support have been pivotal in their careers and personal lives.

• Overcoming Adversity: Ricky's journey through severe racing injuries and subsequent depression highlights the importance of mental health and resilience in overcoming life’s challenges.

• The Role of Mentors: Mentors like Stan Reserve and Bob Behr played crucial roles in Ricky’s development as both a racer and an individual, emphasizing the value of guidance and experience.

• Financial Literacy: Ricky’s passion for investing underscores the significance of financial management for athletes beyond their sports careers.

• Legacy and Impact: The historic finishes and memorable races discussed serve as a testament to Ricky's skill and determination, cementing his legacy in NASCAR history.

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Conclusions:

This episode of "Herm & Schrader" offers an intimate glimpse into Ricky Craven's life, capturing his triumphs, struggles, and the unwavering friendship with Kenny Wallace. Listeners gain valuable insights into the mental fortitude required in professional racing, the importance of mentorship and financial planning, and the enduring bonds that transcend the racetrack. Ricky's recounting of pivotal moments, especially the unforgettable Darlington finish, provides both inspiration and a deeper understanding of what it takes to succeed in the high-stakes world of NASCAR.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ricky Craven (02:39): "I can't begin to describe to the world what you mean to me and like four decades of friendship."

• Ricky Craven (07:54): "I need some balance in my life. I have no balance."

• Ricky Craven (17:44): "The power of compounding is the greatest thing that anyone can teach a young person."

• Ricky Craven (23:35): "You gotta wanna."

• Ricky Craven (52:23): "That race defines me."

• Ricky Craven (83:21): "You will get out of life what you put in it."

• Ricky Craven (99:56): "That race defines me."

• Ricky Craven (105:09): "I want to spend that weekend with you."

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This summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, providing a comprehensive overview of the key topics discussed, memorable moments, and the profound insights shared by Ricky Craven. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to their conversations, this summary offers a meaningful glimpse into the lives of two NASCAR legends.

Transcript

[Kenny Wallace]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation brought to you by jegs, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for everything you need to fix your everyday vehicle up or even your hot rod. Oh deep breath for me. I love this guy. One of my longtime friends and I sure do miss him. I call him the Great because God, he's won some cup races. The great Ricky Craven. Ricky, how are you doing?

[Ricky Craven]

I'm doing, I'm doing great and I can't begin to describe to the world what you mean to me and like four decades of friendship and you know like we're geographically we have been disconnected but God some of my favorite memories are with you in the early days of racing.

[Kenny Wallace]

Man, we have so much to get to and let's, let's Start like this. Ricky Craven from Newburgh, Maine. Newburgh, Maine. You know what? When I think of you in the early days, let's just start like that. You know, I always tell our guests, this is Kenny. Conversation. When you aim at that, Ricky, because I'm not interviewing you. We're having a conversation.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And when I first saw and heard of you, you were in that blue car and you were kicking everybody's butt. I mean, I know you're analytical, and I want to explain that to everybody. You're very analytical and that you were that way with your chassis. And that's why I think you were so successful right away. But let's talk about those days. Newburgh, Maine. Is that right? Is that where you're from?

[Ricky Craven]

Correct. Yeah. Small town in the northern. I'm sorry, in the central, southern part of the state. And then like the last 30 years I spent on Moosehead, which is the northern, central part of the state. Moosehead is a lake, the largest lake. And. But yeah, I'm a Maine boy. And from very early age, just like you, my dad raised. And from an early age, I had this enormous advantage in terms of. Of parlaying my life into a NASCAR driver.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

And that advantage, Kenny, same advantage you had, was that I sat in the grandstands in the early 70s, watching my dad drive a 64 Fairlane Rally Red with a number 12 on the side. And I have vivid memories of him winning the heat, the semi feature, and the feature which they called the Triple Crown. I was like 6 years old that night, and I knew exactly what I was going to do with the rest of my life. I love the smell, I love the sound. I love the excitement. I mean, I still get caught up in it, just describing it. And I mean, that was the catalyst for me. That's the only advantage I had, was what I just described. And we all had it.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, when you think of me, I'm St. Louis and like I said, you're a main guy. And I always hear you talk about Moosehead. What does the deal with Moosehead? Like, it's. It's close to you, isn't it?

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's part of my DNA. And we would go to Moosehead as a child, like the. You know, when we weren't at the racetrack, we would escape to Moosehead. And when I got hurt in 1997, I nosed into the concrete at Texas Motor Speedway. 180 miles an hour. I wake up in a helicopter. I go through trauma at Parkland Hospital in Dallas and it changed the course of my life. When I was released I didn't, I didn't know where I was going, what I was doing. I certainly didn't think I would ever race again. I mean that was the immediate reaction. But when I, when I got to a point maybe a month later after being released, I said I need some balance in my life. I have no balance. And you know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. I was extremely driven. But it came at the, at the expense of like having fun or enjoying my life. And so I immediately like I would say about three months after my, my, my incident at Texas Motor Speedway, I flew to Maine and I looked at eight pieces of property. I settled on the one I liked the most. I borrowed some money and I had my, our log home built. And that was utopia. That, that was. That's basically. That was sort of the center of my universe. My place to escape and recharge the battery.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, we all need that. And I don't know where you're at right now, but you said log cabin. Explain where you're at right now. You got that wood look. Trophies, helmets. Where are you?

[Ricky Craven]

I'm in North Carolina and I built this because I. What you just described is what I enjoy. You know, sort of the, that's the decor or the atmosphere and the environment that I would spend every day of my life. So I built a man cave. I'm looking at a hundred year old wood stove that came out of the north woods of Maine. And you know, probably my favorite time of year is when I can fill that wood stove and have my coffee at 4 in the morning. But we're all from somewhere, Kenny. And you know, the things that we all revert back to when we're sort of in crisis mode is, is. Is home.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

And when I got injured, when I, when I had my accident at Texas Motor Speedway, Maine was part of the resolve I had. You know, it's part of. It gave me a place to heal and it's been in my life ever since.

[Kenny Wallace]

I totally get it. 100. When I was on Dale Jr. Download, I told Dale Jr. I said I moved back to St. Louis because I was tired of everybody in Concord, North Carolina. You know, I try to go to McAllister's Deli and somebody walk up, hey Wallace, you run 15th. What happened? How come? I'm like, my Lord, I'm trying to go eat in Concord and they're judging me on where I finished in a cup race. So I said to hell with it. I came back to St. Louis. And it was the best decision I ever made. So I just want to tell you. I get it. I.

[Ricky Craven]

Part of that's your fault, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a mean look. Okay. Like, you don't like. There's nothing about you that says, you know, prick.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're a prick.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, I got called a prick a few times in my life.

[Kenny Wallace]

Perfect.

[Ricky Craven]

But you don't have that. You're too damn friendly, too nice. And I say that tongue in cheek, but really, the world loves you. And the world loves you because you're real. And you and I have had that conversation a hundred times. I don't have to define that. People want real. And that's why you were so popular in the garage area. That's why you're so popular in the. The NASCAR community and in life.

[Kenny Wallace]

So we're really good friends. And I know we've said that five times, and I don't want to come across as, I don't know, corny, but we compliment each other all the time, and you're very analytical, and I want everybody to know that as we talk the next hour here. I've always admired you for your investing. You're very smart, in my opinion. You're very smart. You're great with money. I mean, you're as. You're as. As good as an investor as you were as a race car driver. Where did this analytical side. This. Where did this come from? It. Was it your mother, father, on your own?

[Ricky Craven]

I think it was out of necessity. You know, first off, growing up in Maine and. And not. Not the. Not the. The NASCAR universe, it's not obvious that I could or would become a NASCAR driver, but at an early age, I had the advantage of knowing what I wanted out of life, and I wanted to be like my dad. And watching him at Speedway 95, and, you know, the smell, the sound, the excitement, it is part of my DNA. It's just like I. I love all aspects of it. That's the simple side of our sport, what I just described. Right? Yeah, The. The analytical part of it was that I just felt like. I've always felt like I had to work harder because maybe I didn't have the same talent. And at first, I never. I didn't think that way early on, but I certainly. Listen, when I got teamed with Jeff Gordon.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, boy.

[Ricky Craven]

1997, I came to the realization I might not have that kind of talent. Okay. And so what I. But. But with that said, I still went to Victory Lane.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

The highest level of motorsports. And, and the way I got there was my, my level of commitment. That's that, that's how I feel. That's how I felt like I demonstrated it. And, but, you know, everything comes at a price. And you know, as far as investing, I've made a load of money investing and I've lost a load of money. Gambling and the stock market can be each of those. You know, it's like the temptation for the next trick, the, the next great thing. And, but I love Kenny. I love helping people, particularly at this point in my life. Yeah, I'm 59 years old. I have, I have a reasonable amount of knowledge. And the one thing that I wish school gave us more than, than, than what it does and certainly college. I didn't go to college. You didn't go to college. But I believe you need mentors more than you need professors. And you know, I had mentors and some people need professors.

[Kenny Wallace]

But who was your mentors?

[Ricky Craven]

My mentors would have been as an example. And I had many. But, but the two greatest mentors I had was Stan Reserve, who was standing driver. And that was, you know, that application would have been building and driving and my, and, and Bob Behr, who everybody in our world knows. And Bob taught me. Bob was the most pragmatic person I ever met and the most logical person I ever met. And I remember in. I'm 16, 17 years old, I win the, I win the late model feature at Unity Raceway on Saturday night. And I've got all this enthusiasm and I've got enough money to buy four Goodyear tires. And I convinced the team, my crew of guys who all had jobs, you know, had to be at work at 8 o' clock Monday morning. I convinced them for us to travel to Oxford Plains Speedway for the open competition race the next day. There were seven or eight every year, and they were typically combined with the old NASCAR north, which became the Bush Grand National north. We went down 80 cars, only 36 spots. We win the heat race, we start outside front row. And the great thing about Bob Bear, what, what differentiated him from all other track owners that I, that I came in contact with is that at the end of the race, you could walk up into the grandstand and into the suite and his wife Sandra would write the check. You got paid that night, that day. So the race ends and, and we, we were okay. And I finished, you know, 10th or 12th and. But I need my money.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ricky Craven]

So I go up, I wait, and I go upstairs. And Bob Bear stood at the top of the Stairs. And he greets me. He greeted all the drivers or owners, and he greets me. And he said, hey, kid, thanks for coming. You were at Unity. You won last night. And I said, yes, sir, I sure did. And he goes, how many people were there? And I. And I'm thinking, I just want my money. And Bob, you know. Bob, right, you know, yeah. And Bob says, how many people were in the grandstands? And I said, oh, a lot of people. It must have been 10,000 people. And he goes, bull. And I was taken aback. I mean, it scared me.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

But I've always been quick on my feet. And I go, it was half full. It was half full. And he goes, oh, yeah, about 2200 people. He goes, yeah, 22. Yeah, that's a good answer. Don't ever try to bull me again. And it had a profound effect on me.

[Kenny Wallace]

Never forgot it.

[Ricky Craven]

No. And listen, just a few years ago, myself, Mike Helton, one of the greatest short track racers in the world, Mike Rowe, we were pallbearers together for Bob.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh.

[Ricky Craven]

And, you know, he had just an enormous influence on me as far as life. So let me go back to the analytical side for a minute. I told you, I've made enormous money investing and lost loads of money gambling. And everybody I know that's been in the market does the same thing, by and large. But the power of compounding is the greatest thing that anyone can teach a young person. The inertia and the momentum is incredible. Yes. And as an example, if you bought a hundred dollars and we all had $100 in 1984, if you put $100 in Home Depot in 1984 when they came public, you would have over a million today.

[Kenny Wallace]

That is so awesome.

[Ricky Craven]

That's one example. That's just one example. There's many others, you know, Coca Cola, Microsoft, Aflac. Aflac's not obvious, but they're a dividend aristocrat. And so, yeah, I'm a little analytical.

[Kenny Wallace]

I love it.

[Ricky Craven]

But, Kenny, I'm analytical because it's part of my confidence. Like, the more I study and the more I learn, the more confident I become. And if I just fly by the seat of my pants, I'm screwed. I'm absolutely screwed.

[Kenny Wallace]

So I want to make sure everybody knows this as we get started here. You are as popular as a NASCAR analyst when. When ESPN carried nascar. And you were. You were so good, you got rave reviews because ESPN would put you up there and you analyzed situations in these NASCAR races, and you were as. You are as good as anybody. On analyzing a NASCAR race. And I want to remind everybody that not just were you a champion, a winner, but you were damn good on tv. And then obviously, espn, you know, they shut down their NASCAR deal, but you were the man at espn. And I just wanted to remind everybody, as we listen to Ricky Winner, champion, ESPN analyst, and then ESPN got out of nascar.

[Ricky Craven]

Can you allow me to expand on that?

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, yeah, please. Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

So I really felt like my whole entire professional career, not the early days my professional career. I had 25 years behind the wheel of a race car, but I always felt like if I could get to 40, then I emptied the tank. That's. That's hand on heart. That's how I felt. And I got there. I retired. Essentially, I retired the year after I won Darlington. So I've got plenty of money. I've got two. Two homes, a bunch of property, investment property, and no debt. And within six months, I was depressed. I went to my doctor three times, told, man, I just don't feel well. And he drew blood. And he did everything. And after the third visit, he sat down and he said, what are you doing? And I go, I mean, I'm buying a few stocks and trading stocks and I got property. He goes, what are you doing? I said, I'm not doing anything. And he goes. He says, so you went from 200 to 0? He said, there's nothing wrong with you. I've run every test there is around. There's nothing wrong with you. I said, there's something wrong with me. He goes, you're depressed. And I go, really? And he goes, yeah. He goes, get your ass back in the game. Just get in the game something. And by the grace of God, I get a call from Jack Obringer two weeks later, and he says, what are you doing? I said, well, I bought this farm from Benny Parsons years ago, and I bought a tractor and I'm baling hay. I always want to bail hay. And he goes, I love it.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm laughing.

[Ricky Craven]

And he goes, he says, I don't know how much you like it. I hate it. I hate it. And he goes, come up here and do television for two weeks. If we like you and you like it, we'll give you a year contract. And I go by. And he goes, you don't want to do it? I go, no, I'm good. I'm on my way to the airport. And I swear to you, Kenny, the moment I got in the studio, it came back to me. I mean, oh, my gosh, I got some skin in the Game.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

And I felt some pressure, which I didn't realize it, but I actually like pressure. You know, a certain amount of pressure is important, critically important to me. And I had 13 years with worldwide leader in sports. And I realized then I will never, ever retire again. And I mean that. See, not everybody's like me, but there are people out there listening that know what I'm talking about. Me. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me say this. I. You, you've. That was very provocative. So I want to respond because therapy, you know, therapy is this nasty little word. Oh, you're doing therapy. I'm like, well, I talked to a friend too. I always say, Ashok Chagar, my cpa, my accountant, he's my life coach, he's from India, he sees things differently. And I would always talk to him about retiring. Retiring, retiring. Ashok looked at me one day, he says, my friend, in that broken English from India, my friend, I have people, they, they sell business because they supposed to retire. They sell business, they call me, two years later, ashok, I am dying. I need to start business back up. And, and he would say, quit saying you're going to retire. And, and then, you know, became the legendary Clint Eastwood, Toby Keith. This was the one that changed my life. Don't let the old man in.

[Ricky Craven]

Oh, my goodness.

[Kenny Wallace]

And, and you, it's not about retiring. I, I was out in Sturgis and everybody's heard this story. Actually, I'm going to Sturgis tomorrow. But I look at Don Perdom, the Snake, greatest drag racer, you know, top three.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And then Walker Evans, who just died 12 time off road truck champ. I looked at both of them, Ricky, and I said, you know, I'm going to be 60. I'm thinking about retiring, quitting racing, Ricky. Both of them came out of the lawn chairs and said, no.

[Ricky Craven]

No, I.

[Kenny Wallace]

Got, I got lucky, Ricky. I, I. Because, because I bit into that. Because what I learned is people that don't have the, you know, Dick Trickle said, you got to wanna, you gotta wanna. And too many people shut, shut down.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I, they saved me and I.

[Ricky Craven]

Did that, I did that during COVID and it got me in trouble. But, but you know, you mentioned Walker Evans and Don Trudeau and there was a. Two quality human beings, badasses, winners, champions. They're winners. So they're different disciplines than you. Yes, but they're hardwired the same. Like, it's one of the great joys in my life is having the time to connect with people that I knew of but knew nothing about them. And it's Fascinating how much we think alike. And the things that bother me, bother them, or the things that they get satisfaction from are the same things I get excited about. And it's, you know. But you know what's interesting, Kenny? This conversation. It would take hours for us to describe the nuances of, of, of this, but, yep, I did not. I, I was different than some other drivers, I think.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, you were.

[Ricky Craven]

You.

[Kenny Wallace]

You are different. I am different.

[Ricky Craven]

Well, one of the things that I had to do when I climbed in the car, I had to hate everybody else I competed against. I mean, I, I, I have vivid memories of that. I really, I, I had to hate them because that, that worked in my favor. That's all. I mean, there were things that I like. When you really augur into Dale Earnhardt and you spend quality time with him, like you have or I have, you come to the realization I'm not as tough as that guy.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Okay. I mean, I don't care how badly you want to be Dale Earnhardt, you're not going to be him. And, but that doesn't mean you can't beat him. And you, you, you actually told me that one day. You said that he told you, you're not going to beat anybody. You win.

[Kenny Wallace]

You outrun them.

[Ricky Craven]

You outrun. Explain that, because.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, it was very, very. It's right up your alley in mine because it has to do with the brain. Whenever Earnhardt said, don't ever use the word beat, because in Earnhardt's mind, that meant you killed them, they were out.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

He says, he said, use the word outrun because tomorrow they might outrun you. Yeah, but listen, that was his. I told that to Junior, and he's. And, And Junior laughed it off as it was funny. But people use their own brain to come up with their own conclusions or illusions. I know that's cliche, but Earnhardt was on guard. I don't ever beat anybody because I don't want to set myself up for depression, because if tomorrow, you know, I beat them, they're done. They'll never get me, and then tomorrow they outrun me. So he said, I outrun him tonight, I outrun him this weekend. So you don't be depressed when they outrun you. Hey, this is Dylan Hart Jr. And for the latest Herman Trader gear, you need to go to shop.dirtymomedia.com We've got plenty of options for everybody, and we're adding new stuff all the time, so.

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[Kenny Wallace]

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[Ricky Craven]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Like, half of it is. I just want to talk about how much fun we had outside the car. Like. Like, you know, that we could hate each other on the track for 100 laps or for 300 miles or 500 miles, but we love each other when we're away from the track. And like, I'm thinking. I'm thinking in the last 20 minutes, I'm thinking about the early days when we became friends and how easy things were and how foolish we were. And for example, here's an example. Do you remember the time that you and I and Jeff and Bobby Labonte and Jeff Gordon, we rented a 182. It might have been a Cessna 185. And we went to Richmond to do this autograph session. It was Val Lesor who recruited us. And you. There's no greater hero in your life that I'm aware of, no greater hero than Rusty. Like, he's always been somebody you look up to and sort of the, The. The crescendo of heroes. And. And so you always wanted to replicate Rusty when you had the opportunity. When, when we, when you and I and I had no money at the time, but when you and I won a hundred thousand dollars plus in two weeks in New England.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's on my list.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah. When we did that, like, we were rusty for in that moment, yeah, we were badasses.

[Kenny Wallace]

There was nobody better than us.

[Ricky Craven]

He was the first person we called. Right. But I remember that flight. I remember the flight sitting across you and I sitting beside each other, sitting across Bobby and Jeff, and we owned the world. And we're flying in this plane. And by all accounts, we probably could have died in that damn thing, Right? But no way.

[Kenny Wallace]

We were awesome.

[Ricky Craven]

But we. Listen, we had our private claim, didn't we?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ricky Craven]

And we.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, I want to show you this. Everybody, I have a conversation with two. Two PA. Two pages. I'm like Larry McReynolds. Look at this. Three pages, and I haven't even got to the start yet. One page, two page, three page.

[Ricky Craven]

I get it. I get it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. I want to tell you something. You taught me one of my biggest lessons in life. After this, we're going to have to start having a conversation about your career, because you and I get wrapped up in philosophy. You and I, we love philosophy. And. And the great Dick Trickle would be right here with us. Yeah, he was. He was. Dick Trickle was one of the great philosophers, just like you. He said, my boy, as long as you can justify. May not be right for somebody else, but as long as you can justify it. So I want to tell you something, how you changed my life. And I want to thank you for this. Everybody told me that I was too nice. I laughed too loud. And then for me to be a successful cup driver, I had to be more serious. I'm like, well, what the hell? I'd already won, like, six Xfinity races. And I'm so. I'm in the Cup Series. You're in the Cup Series? I'm walking down pit road at Bristol Motor Speed, where I'm getting ready to qualify, and I. I'm acting, and. And I put on this face. I get real. I'll take my glass. I'm like this.

[Ricky Craven]

I'm going.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm going. I'm going to qualify. I'm a badass. I'm mean, I hate everybody. Forget it. You destroyed me. You looked at me, you said, herman, you're sitting on pit wall. You said, herman, stop it. Come here. I went over and you said, quit trying to act tough. I said, son of a. She caught me. After that day. After that day, I said, screw it. I'm gonna be Kenny Wallace.

[Ricky Craven]

Oh, my God.

[Kenny Wallace]

Thank you, Ricky.

[Ricky Craven]

Hey, along those lines, I remember. I remember saying to you on another occasion, I said, kenny, I've thought a lot about this, and you're different than anybody else I know, okay? You're different than any other friend I have. If you can bottle up you. If you can bottle up what you are and who you are and what you represent in your core values and your personality and put a cork on it and. And save it for after you Hang up your helmet. You're going to be filthy rich. I mean, I remember saying that. And you probably didn't take that advice, but you have done it. I mean, you really have. There is nobody on social media that can match you. And it's because it's sincere, it's genuine, it's real. Those are things that are, that are paramount with me, particularly now at this point in my Life.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, we're 37 minutes into this. We got. And I knew it. Okay, okay, everybody. That was about me and Ricky. Now it's going to be about Ricky. And we could go. Like you said, we go all day. I'm afraid if you and I met for coffee, they'd have to run us out of the restaurant because the sun would be going down. Okay, I hope everybody enjoyed that. There's, there's a great lesson there. And Ricky on the same way. Money isn't everything, and I'll just leave it at that. Okay, here's the way I want to start this. I'm going to read your stats and. And then after that, we're going to go to the Oxford 250. We're going to go to that weekend at Loudon. But let, let me read your stats. And I do this for every great race car driver only if you do.

[Ricky Craven]

Me a favor and don't spend too much time on it, because you can't blow it up to be bigger than it was. I mean, I'm proud of it, but it wasn't that big.

[Kenny Wallace]

And sometimes this makes you reminisce. I, I tell Kyle Busch, I tell Tony Stewart the best. I tell them their stats and they always go. They go right away to the bad one. What is it about? And this is the first time. This is, this is the effect you're having on me right now. I, I want everybody to know that I've done this a hundred times. And every time I tell the race car drivers, the competitors how great they are, the first thing they do is they tell me how bad, what race they didn't win. I'm like, what is it about athletes? But I'm going to see how you respond. So here's Ricky Craven, everybody, and I'm gonna miss some stuff and feel free to stop me because that's what I like. Okay. 1981 Unity Raceway Rookie of the Year 1990 Bush North Rookie of the Year 1991 Bush North Champion 1991 Bush North Most Popular Driver 1992 now we're going south. NASCAR Bush Series Rookie of the Year now we're you following everybody? Now we're going to the pinnacle 1995 Winston cup rookie of the Year, the highest form of Motorsports in America. 278 NASCAR cup races, 2 NASCAR cup wins, and we will get to these. Darlington, that incredible checkered flag with Kurt Busch beating and begging, and you win and the great Martinsville win. Now we're, we're switching 142 NASCAR Xfinity races, four wins, 26 truck races, and one win now for a total of 446 NASCAR races in all top three series. But this is where it gets big. You are in a very elite group. You are one of very few drivers to. You won in all three series. You won in Cup, Xfinity and Truck. Now, I can go on and on, and I, I do have a lot of thoughts about Unity Raceway, but let's get there in a minute. Your thoughts on, on your stats.

[Ricky Craven]

My first thought is, you know, they, they could have and should have been better. I mean, they all say the same, but, but, but. All right, so this is probably the most important answer I can give because my identity, my identity in the world is primarily a result of what you just described. And that is a, that is the influence of nascar. Oh, my goodness. Do you know what, do you know what the word NASCAR and that logo meant to me when I was a kid? And you do know, and like that that was my objective in life. I wanted to be a NASCAR driver and I wanted to be a successful NASCAR driver. And to that end, I was, you know, I, I won two races. So no, we won't blow it out of proportion, but I did win two races against two champions. Dale Jarrett Martinville and Kurt Busch at Darlington. And Kenny, I've got, and I know that you know this, but sometimes, you know, in my seriousness, it may not be front and center, but I have this enormous debt of gratitude to nascar. Not just, not just the founders, the creators. Creators of nascar, but everyone involved. All right, everyone. And that's far reaching. And my gosh, my life is enhanced because of the opportunities I got capitalizing on those opportunities and then the relationships that have continued for. You know, I had lunch with Jeff on Thursday last week. We always get together. We've stayed connected. You know, like there are a lot of people that, that follow us and we disappear and they think, where did he go? He must not, he must not even watch racing. And, but the fact of the matter is we do not lose touch with each other when we need each other and when we have the opportunity to.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me Interrupt you? Because I've said this a handful of times. Kelly Earnhardt, wonderful lady.

[Ricky Craven]

Wonderful.

[Kenny Wallace]

Said it perfectly to me. I mean, it was beautiful. You know, she said, kenny, I love you. You are a no maintenance friend. And I, and I said, oh, my God, I know exactly what you mean.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

So in other words, the same thing with you. We may not talk all the time, but if you call me, man, I immediately pick up and I'm there for you. I love those type of friends. You don't got a damn. Oh, go ahead.

[Ricky Craven]

A few years ago, I hadn't seen or heard from you in a little while, but I was in Florida at Amelia island with Kenny Schrader invited me and both of us, and we had a great, great event and we had a great time. And it's midnight, and Kenny and I are having a cocktail, and he goes, you, you've seen Kenny?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, brother.

[Ricky Craven]

Kenny Wallace. And I go, so Kenny. And everybody knows who he's talking about. And I go, no, but I missed the hell out of him. And he goes, well, hold on, it's midnight.

[Kenny Wallace]

Only a Schrader does straight. Nile.

[Ricky Craven]

Ricky's here and he misses you. It's midnight and we have a, we have a 30 minute conversation. I mean, it's real, folks. It's real. Like, you know, the, the connections we made in racing are lifelong. Not with everybody, but they're pretty.

[Kenny Wallace]

What aggravates me, Ricky. And listen, I'm 99 positive there's 1% of. I call it D bullshitting. I, I, I love life, but I, I spend more time thinking about how good NASCAR was for me than to moan, people hate me right now. Some people dislike me right now because, because I think NASCAR is awesome. And they just want me to complain about nascar. And I said, listen, I'll complain a little bit, but go ahead.

[Ricky Craven]

But here's the thing. And it's uncomfortable. I know it is, but again, you're real. So I saw just recently where you said, nascar, you owe the world an apology.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, they do. That was my one bad thing of the year.

[Ricky Craven]

How did you come up with that? But, but listen, you didn't undress anyone. You just made a point and you said what other people were thinking. But, you know, we can't go through life at this point being apologists for nascar. We can't. What we can do, however, is we can bleed NASCAR because they changed our life. And because of that beautiful. I'm always and you're always and Rusty's always and Mark Martin, one of our favorite people will always have allegiance to nascar. Always. It doesn't make them perfect. I mean, there's things right now that need some attention. They just do. I mean, to your point, you said we need more. Know, I think I'm paraphrasing, but you said NASCAR is hired somebody to, to, to, to be more appealing to the blue collar pe.

[Kenny Wallace]

Adam Stern, who is the go to guy for everybody. You and I know everybody inside the industry, the racetracks, the presidents, they call me. And this Adam Stern is quality. And Adam Stern says NASCAR has reached out to a firm to, you know, NASCAR starting their way to go back and make it right with the old fans. That's what I was referring to, Kenny.

[Ricky Craven]

Some, some of this, some of this is, is foolishness, right? Like what you read and what you hear. And some of it has substance. You know, actually NASCAR is in a reasonable place. I mean, it's, it's. But there, you know, the one thing that, that concerns me is you can't, you can't use expressions like we want to appeal more to blue collar people because that was horrible. Well, no, not you. I'm not referring to you. I'm just saying in general, like our fan base is our fan base. We don't have to distinguish between blue collar and white collar. Our fans are our fans. But if we're going to use that, then let's expand on it and say, okay, being analytical. We had blue collar drivers. I mean, we had blue collar drivers.

[Kenny Wallace]

Dale Senior.

[Ricky Craven]

Why. That's why it was so appealing. They were, they were people that the fans related to. Now that's not a knock on our drivers of today. It's a different world. It's a different era. But listen, I already disclosed that Bob Bearer was one of my mentors. And parallel to Bob Bearer in a lot of regards would BE Bill France Jr. And I gained a lot of wisdom from him. I listened. I didn't speak much. I just listened to. And that pragmatism and that logic and that intuition is what helped build the momentum and the inertia that carried us for years. Like I, as ex. As an example, if I were ruling nascar, I would require every one of my executives, every single top level executive to stay home for one week. No matter how important you think you are. The sport will be fine without you. I learned that after.

[Kenny Wallace]

We will race with you or without you.

[Ricky Craven]

Yes. So every one of you need to stay home and you need to lock yourself in your home and you need to watch our broadcast. I want you to watch the race only then Will you understand how good the product is? Okay, that's what we're selling. And so if they're at the racetrack and they're coming back and they're giving us an evaluation from their perspective, it's irrelevant. Fans don't get the same perspective that they get from the box or they don't get the same perspective you and I get from behind the wheel. And they don't get the same perspective the crew chiefs give them from on top of the box. And by watching the race, they would get a true illustration of how big a Fiasco the last 20 laps of Martinsville were last fall. Okay, like that was painful. And you have to feel for the customer. I've always referred to them as the customer. And if we don't refer them to them as the customer, then we're going to lose our customer.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

You bring up a very good point, Ricky. You know, TV is big because you're sitting on your couch, you're watching tv, oh, I gotta pee. And then you and moan about this, but boy, when you're at the racetrack and like you said at the start, you smell the rubber, you see the blood, sweat and tears. Everybody's, you know, this is serious stuff. When you're at the racetrack, it's like people don't complain. You know, it really is two different, you know, outlooks. And I appreciate you saying that it.

[Ricky Craven]

Is Kenny, but also they're two completely different universes. Okay, yes, the number of people that can actually travel to the race has diminished for whatever reasons. But the audience that we can reach through television is like exponential.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Provided we're entertaining.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's it. Are you not entertained? That's what the circus man would say. Are you entertained?

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a lot. There's a lot to celebrate in nascar, but it's never. It's never perfect. And, you know, I think you ask people, what do you watch? Why do you watch it?

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. I can see right now I'm going to have to change my. The way I approach you because we are analyzing everything and I love it. I absolutely love. This is one of my favorite Kenny conversations of all time. Because you and I are blood brothers. Okay, let's do bullet points. You and I will never ever forget our early days. You won the Oxford 250 and we worked on our car, Our cox treated lumber car. Okay. You won the Oxford 250. This is. This is like the Daytona 500. You win the Oxford 250, we're at your shop, and six days later, I win the Bud 300 out of your little one car garage.

[Ricky Craven]

We.

[Kenny Wallace]

We probably won a hundred thousand dollars. One of the greatest weekends of my life. What do you remember about winning the Oxford 250? It was huge.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, I remember. I remember sitting in the grandstands watching my heroes when I was a kid.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Take, you know, my heroes. Ralph Mason, Stan Mazerv, Dave Dion, Dick mccabe, Robbie Crouch, Joey Karofis. They took on Butch Lindley, Harry Gantt, Morgan Shepard. I mean, it was just this race was the biggest thing in New England Every July. So long before I wanted to win the Daytona 500 or the Darlington or Michigan or I wanted to win the Oxford 250. That's what it meant to me. I mean, it was personal and I checked the box. But what I really remember, Kenny, is it was two of the greatest weeks of my life. And you know what I'm talking about. It was two weeks where you and I hung out like high school buddies.

[Kenny Wallace]

We were.

[Ricky Craven]

And every day and we're doing different things. And I won at Oxford and you got roughed up somewhere along the line. And then, like, I'm actually thinking about my buddy and thinking, you know, I'm getting all this attention. During the following week, I'm getting all this attention. And the racing gods said, I got this and you win New Hampshire. That was an enormous win. And you were battling for a championship.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

So, I mean, the planets were aligned. I do remember I remember celebrating after you won, like the next day. I remember, though, immediately after you calling Rusty. And it's just you and I. You go, hey, I can't say what you said.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, could I. I kicked her ass. Charlie. Charlie will beat this out. So it's okay. Oh, my go.

[Ricky Craven]

God. I got, listen, I got pictures and video of that. I really do not.

[Kenny Wallace]

Not.

[Ricky Craven]

But you know, you've heard this expression, right? You don't know what you don't know, right? Holy. That's what. That was part of our advantage back then. We. Listen. We really didn't know what we didn't know. And you know what else? We didn't need to.

[Kenny Wallace]

No.

[Ricky Craven]

All we cared about was being racers.

[Kenny Wallace]

We wanted to be.

[Ricky Craven]

Want to be like Rusty or, you know, want to be like Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt.

[Kenny Wallace]

Tell me about that. I. I was, you know, when I came up there, you know, I, I knew you were famous. You were already kicking everybody's butt. And then when I got there, I was shocked that you done all this just in this. You know, I guess it would, you know, it was a little single car garage, and there was. To me, there was plumbing supplies in there. It's like somebody just let you use some space.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You invaded somebody's office. I mean. Yeah, it was about that spot.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, it was my son's, named after him. It was at E.J. prescott. And I didn't pay any rent. It was just. It was just part of the cause, you know, it was one of, like, there's a million examples of things that had to happen for me to, To. To reach Victory Lane in the Cup Series. And, and that 1990, 1991 period where I went out on my own, I borrowed like 50 grand and I, I wanted to be a NASCAR driver. I was ready. The opportunities weren't necessarily there, so I created my own opportunities. And oh, my gosh, I remember. I mean, it's the hardest I've ever worked, but it was also the most rewarding. And 1991 was magical. But listen, I, I'll.

[Kenny Wallace]

When I think about, is it emotional for you? I. I detect. I mean, though, you know, you went on to win two cup races, but we all emotionally, you know, you can talk to Warren Buffett and we all are a product of our early childhood. We could be 90 years old. And you. I thought those days were so glorious.

[Ricky Craven]

I don't have that energy that I had back then. Honestly, I do wake up wishing I had it, you know, my enthusiasm for life. I've always had an Enormous amount of enthusiasm. I try to take everything I learned and parlay it into helping my children in some way, some form. And I told him early on, you need to ask questions. All. Ask as many questions as you be curious. And I won $50,000 in Oxford that week in 1991. 1991, I think it was $51,250. I had no money. I mean, Dick Demig with Goodyear gave me two sets of tires and I bought two others. I wrote the check and I really, I really, I mean, I, I, I had enough money to clear the check, but just, I've done it and I win the race. And I didn't go to bed. I did not go to bed. I thought, what am I going to do with this money? So I gave it to me. I gave the crew members 1,000 bucks a piece. I remember it because they killed themselves all year.

[Kenny Wallace]

Awesome.

[Ricky Craven]

And then I took, I think $25,000 and I put it into the Magellan fund of Fidelity. It was run by a gentleman named Peter lynch, who was sage. I mean, he was sort of a disciple of Warren Buffett. He was extremely successful, averaging crazy returns like 20% annually. And that's where I learned the power of compounding and just leave it alone and ignore it. And I remember wanting to know more about investing. And so what I did, Kenny, from that point on, right then, because I had a little bit of money, from that point on, I always spent the money to upgrade. And I sat in first class so that I could ask questions to the people who are reading the Wall street journal. I wore their ass out. I mean, there were people that just didn't want to talk, but I'd ask them questions because that was my opportunity.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I'm stopping right here. Okay, look, here, I wrote, I wrote this down. It says Brad Sweet and Charlie Munger. Yeah, I want, I want the racers. You know, some of the dirt racers get mad at me because I, you know, like Nick Hoffman listens to me. I said, be careful. Don't be a dirt daubert. Be a racer. But like when I talked to Brad Sweet, who is a four time world of outlaw champion who now owns High limit, still racing. I saw him on social media. You know, Charlie Munger was, you know, Warren Buffett's very best friend and a partner in crime. What is it about you and these successful racers? You're not all, you're, you're smart beyond your years. Yes, you're winning, but you took that money and, and I, I thought of you right away. When, when Brad Sweet talked about Charlie Munger. Normal people don't know who Charlie Munger is.

[Ricky Craven]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Which. He was Buffett's right hand man. Yeah, one of the great investors. But at an early age. How old were you when, when you won that Oxford? 250 and thought to invest your money?

[Ricky Craven]

24 years old. The only thing I knew about investing, the only thing I knew was my grandmother. Craven, Catherine Craven, she helped me get a savings account. And back then you had a little book and you take to the bank with your $20 and they would record it in your book and you, so you knew what you're. And I love it. And she bought, she bought certificates of deposit which had a coupon of five and a half, six and a half, seven and a half percent. And whenever, and whenever the CDs were high, she would tell me, Richard, this is a good time to put a little money in a certificate of deposit. And I did. But listen, the only thing I can contribute on that end is that like anybody that has courage, I've made plenty of mistakes. Like you learn from the most painful things in your life. And I am consumed. I really am. I love reading and knowledge. I friggin love it. And I, you know, but I'm lazy. I can't read because my vision's not what it once was. But I listen to audiobooks a lot and Charlie Munger, it's just fascinating. Like Charlie Munger would have taught you that Costco was a brilliant opportunity. And you say Costco like I think it's hot dogs. I want that company that, I want that company that's going to, going to allow you, that's creating the software that's going to allow you to pay your bills with your cell phone. I want that company because that's sexy. But the problem is they had to raise so much capital and there were so many people in that arena that the best they could hope for is to get bought out by Microsoft. Right? So that's not a good investment. A good investment was just taking the practical approach, like Walmart is just a phenomenal investment. If you bought it early on and then somebody says, well, you had to buy, no, you didn't have to buy it early on. You could have bought it 20 years later and still made loads of money. And that's what Costco was. Costco was a creation of something that everybody needs. And they did it on the highest level, they did it at the same level NASCAR did, motorsports. And guess what? It's not over. The problem with Costco Right now, however, is that it's trading at, like, 35 times earnings, and it's not growing at 35% necessarily.

[Kenny Wallace]

Listen up, kids. It's not that I'm interrupting Ricky. It's just he's like me. I asked him what it was like to win at 24 years old at Oxford, and his answer was, I invested some of the money right away, and that's what you dirt racers need to do. Like Superman, Jonathan Davenport got the farm. And, you know, and here we are talking about stocks again. It's incredible.

[Ricky Craven]

We have. How much time do we have left?

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, we got as time, as much as we want, but we like to not go over an hour and 20 minutes. If we go to hour 30, Charlie, we might break a record. But Dale Jr. Was an hour 20, and you. I think you. We can be three hours, but.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Kenny Wallace]

I want to hear what you have to say.

[Ricky Craven]

No, I'm not worthy of that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you are.

[Ricky Craven]

Speaking of Dale Jr. All right, so this is where it's fun. Like, this is totally off the cuff. You mentioned Dale Jr. There are certain people that you come in contact with and you see them in one light, but that might not be who they are at the core.

[Kenny Wallace]

True.

[Ricky Craven]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Ricky Craven]

Dale Jr. Is one of the finest human beings I've ever come in contact.

[Kenny Wallace]

With and so smart.

[Ricky Craven]

And I. And I never would have acknowledged that when he was racing, when he did. When he did the Rolling Stones interview or whatever. And he's given the world a middle finger, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Like, that wouldn't have been my assessment of him then. But then you realize when he opens up to the world and he becomes real and he shares with the world the challenges he had and how resilient he was and how dependent he was on his sister and his sister was on him and still are, I say, my God, I got that sister. I've got that sister. I've got a Kelly. Her name's Lori. She's my only sibling. We are inseparable. My God, I love my sister. She loves me. And you think about, you know, again, the friends you have, like Jeff, you. I'm not gonna bullshit anybody. There's only a handful, maybe two. Maybe two hands, right? Like real people. But I went through a divorce a few years ago, so some people could qualify at a midlife crisis. And it was a. It was. It was a bump. It was a little bit of a bumping ride. I think most divorces are. But at the same time, I decided to raise a little hell because I never got to raise hell. When I was a kid, I was around adults, when I was 15 years old, racing cars. You mature early.

[Kenny Wallace]

I. I will say that you were very mature early.

[Ricky Craven]

So. But I also had. I also had sort of the. The platform to do it.

[Kenny Wallace]

I.

[Ricky Craven]

You know, I had my. After actually, before my divorce, my. My wife said, I. I fell in love with this boathouse in a cove on Moosehead. And I said, we really should buy that. And she. And. And she was. She blessed it. And. And so after the divorce, we sold everything, and I used the. The boathouse as my sort of my. My forum to just raise how. And Dale Jr. Somewhere along the line, said, hey, let me show you this. And he, you know, he. I'll get into it someday with him, but he had enormous influence on me, and it was all personal. And when I think back there, you know, that brief period, there were people. After I got divorced, there were people in my life that didn't get the best version of me. You know, they didn't get the real version of me.

[Kenny Wallace]

And.

[Ricky Craven]

Jeff Gordon got a little tiny bit of that, but he never turned his back on me. You know, he. He is just. He's one of my best friends, and. And he know anybody, and you know that, like, he's just a genuine human being. And Dale Jr. Is a genuine human being. It's easier for me, Kenny, to describe the people that I wasn't close to than it is the people I was. People ask me all the time, who were the people you were closest to? And on the racetrack, I didn't want to be close to anybody. But outside of racetrack, God, I've made some really, really strong connections.

[Kenny Wallace]

I know this sounds crazy, but.

[Ricky Craven]

This.

[Kenny Wallace]

Is the way my. My brain works. I'm thinking of Michael Jackson right now, because here's why. Because Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. They didn't have a chance to grow up. Now, I know you know Jeff Gordon way better than me, but Jeff would tell me that, you know, he was a really good race car driver right away. And his dad, you know, stepfather John Bickford, said, okay, let's quit racing a little bit. Let's go water skiing, and then let's go back racing. I mean, this kid's 12, 13 years old at Lee, New Hampshire, smoking the right rear on a winged modified. Yeah, you don't do that at that age. So Jeff Gordon had a God's gift. I mean, nobody can do that. And to me, this day, you know, you got Kyle Larson who's right there with him, but I don't think Jeff Gordon or I don't think Dale Jr. Had a chance to build a tree house, run the creeks, ride their bicycles like I did. Man, I, I blew it out my ass as a kid. I had so much fun, you know, but I don't think, I mean, how were you as a kid? Were you like Jeff Gordon?

[Ricky Craven]

Were you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Did you have to be serious at an early age? I didn't. But did you?

[Ricky Craven]

I think that I was. I think that we all, I mean we, we all were kids in the sense that, you know, you got recess, you got your bicycle, you got your buddies. But I grew up very fast. Yeah, I mean, I, but, but part of that was because I convinced my dad to buy this Chevelle that had roll cage that I drove by every day. It was in the field that I drove by every day on the school bus. And I convinced him to buy that car when I was. Had just turned 13 and it was 150 bucks and hauled it back. We had a two bay garage at our home. That car occupied one bay, which meant somebody had to park outside in the winter in Maine. That's not, you know, but I, but, but it was a. Actually there was a method to his madness in that I got off the school bus and worked on that car every day for two years. And he said, if you get it done, you can race it. Well, I got it done. I was 15 years old. I got it done. And the second race I entered, I had to start last. The second race I entered at Unity Raceway, I won.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ricky Craven]

And guess what, Kenny. Who? The Kyle Busch of our era back then was Bobby Allison. He would leave the racetrack and fly his plane somewhere and race and make a little extra cash and have fun. He was at Unity Raceway racing that night, and I was in a lower division and he came over, he gave me his Gatorade hat and he said, I just heard you were driving that 12 car. He said, you drove the wheels off that car.

[Kenny Wallace]

That is so awesome. You'll never forget that. What we, we never know. I have people that walk up to me all the time now that I'm of age, you know, Schrader doesn't like me to talk about age, but he's starting to fess up that he's 70 now, but I'll be 62 August 23rd.

[Ricky Craven]

He's amazing, isn't he?

[Kenny Wallace]

He really is. He lives life so awesomely the way he. He doesn't apologize. He goes on the road. He does his deal.

[Ricky Craven]

Nor should he.

[Kenny Wallace]

But my point is, is People do say to me a lot, hey, Wallace, I remember when you said this, and I'm like, I don't remember that. But when we said, no different than you stopping me on pit road at Bristol, I remember that. That was very big in my life. So Bobby Allison giving you that hat, here you are, 59 years old. Do you remember that?

[Ricky Craven]

I remember it. And then the irony of it is that. So that was 1982. And then in 1994, I spent several weeks with Bobby trying to convince me to drive the number 12. And I wanted to do it so bad, I'd cry myself to sleep. But I couldn't because I had got. I had taken money from Chevrolet for two or three years. You know, like, you go back to 1991, when I won 10 out of 20. I started 21 races. I won 10 of them. And that was. You know, that was with the sport of Chevrolet. That created some tailwind that puts you.

[Kenny Wallace]

On the map, that remember that year for sure.

[Ricky Craven]

And so Bobby said to me, and I remember it like it was yesterday, and he's one of my favorite people. We all love Bobby because he's just a wonderful human being. God rest his soul. Just a wonderful human being. He never changed. Every day. So he said to me, ricky, you're too damn loyal. And I said, I don't know how to respond to that, because, like, you're one of my heroes. And we're. And we're negotiating, and I want to drive for you more than you'll ever know, but I cannot. I can't do it unless you convert the cars to Chevrolet.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Because he was.

[Ricky Craven]

And he said. He said, I'm not doing it. But you got to remember, Bobby had been through years and years and years of what we wanted.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ricky Craven]

And he wasn't wrong. He wasn't wrong. I thought he was wrong at the time. But what he meant. And what he really meant was, you can be nice all the way to unemployment. You have to seize your opportunities. And fortunately for me, Herb Fischl found out about that whole dialogue, and he came to me and said, ricky, you've been part of the fraternity here at Chevrolet, and I promise you, you'll be in a cup car in 95. And so, you know, I got to tell you a quick story. I don't know if I. It's okay to tell this story now because, you know, it's fun. But I got the opportunity, with Wad L. Wilson as my crew chief, to drive the 41 car because of what I did a year earlier.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Herb aligned the planets, everything's set. And we've got to go to Memphis to meet with Kodiak who was, you know, you've got some heritage with, with Rusty and, and Kodiak. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

That helmet on your left shoulder.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, right. And it's a wonderful group of people in Memphis, Tennessee, sold tobacco, which wasn't the easiest product to market, but racing was one of their, their outlets and a good one. And so they said, we, we got to convince them to sign off on you. If they do, we're good. And this is Larry Hedrick and I. He had a citation jet. We flew there together. Two pilots, he and I in the back. We couldn't have had a better meeting. They signed off, we're coming back. And he says, I hate doing this, but we got to negotiate. And I'm like, oh, here we go. Now remember, I have got no money. I mean, very little money at this point. I've not made any real money because we put all of our money back into racing. I said, I'm going to hold out for a hundred thousand dollar base salary and 25% of the purse. So I know he's going to offer me 50 and probably 15%. So he scribbles on a napkin, he folds it in half and he slides it over and I open it, expecting it to be that. And I open it and it's like 10 times that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ricky Craven]

And I'm holding it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Try not to shake.

[Ricky Craven]

Listen inside, I'm doing backflips and high fives and I'm celebrating, but I'm going, stay calm. I think we can do that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Never let them see you sweat. Never let up.

[Ricky Craven]

Oh, my God. I had forgotten about that and it popped in my head a few years ago. And it's like every time I share that story, people laugh because, you know, that's just a, that's a glimpse of our world, right, that nobody ever sees about or reads about. But you know, like, I scared to death to negotiate because I didn't want him to get pissed off and say, no, forget it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, don't disappoint me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

So, you know, you mentioned it. I didn't think we'd have time and we will just kind of ease over it. There are racetracks that define you. You started racing at Unity Raceway. The first year you won two times, but the next year you won 12 features and the championship you throw in there, what is it? Wiscasset Speedway, Late Models. And you won the track championship and rookie of the year. Was. Did those years define you?

[Ricky Craven]

I think that they do. If you look at where I won and where I ran well and where I didn't run so well, you know, like for example, I won at Martinsville, Darlington. I always ran like a rabbit at Rockingham. I gave away a few wins at Rockingham, but I ran at racetracks that were predicated on my feet and the things I did with my feet, not necessarily what I did with the steering wheel. And, and you know, there's a mystery that exists inside of me. And that mystery is that when I my second year in cup, my second year, I'm only 30 something races into my career, I battled Dale Earnhardt and Dale Jarrett for the win at Rockingham. Yeah, I battled Jeff Gordon nose to tail for the last 80 laps for the win at Darlington. I went into Talladega with like, I think I was third in the standings the tenth race of the year in my sophomore year. And I left with a broken back. And a year later I nosed into the concrete at Texas Motor Speedway. And when I don't have time to tell you what I went through, but I basically gave up three years of my life.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

And I've always wondered, I've always sort of, I've always had this debate in my mind like, what did I lose from the time I got hurt to the time I came back and got the opportunity with a Tide car. And then at some point, you know, and this is actually in the same period I was referring to when I was, when I was not at my best after my divorce you know, like, I had some. I had some frustration that, you know, I was just some frustrations with life. And I shifted my whole frame of mind to, oh, my gosh. Actually, I became a smarter driver after my injuries. And the reason why is because I went to work. I felt sorry for myself for a period of time, and then I went to work, which has always gotten me out of trouble. And I took the opportunity. I studied. I listened to Ray and Jeff on the radio. We had beaten our ass every week. And I'm his teammate. Let me tell you, it was painful. I listened. I watched the way he came on pit road under green. Those are things that I never would have gotten the opportunity to learn real time. Right. You can have people teacher. So I said, you know, Jeff and I had this conversation a week ago or last Thursday. I said, you know, by all accounts, Chase Elliott should have come back a better driver after breaking the leg. Yeah. Because if he really, really, really wanted it the way I know that he did because he won a championship afterward, if he would have taken that opportunity to study, to focus on the things that he otherwise wouldn't have had the opportunity to be exposed to. And that's pretty much how I've gone about my life. That's how I still continue to go about my life.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I think we all have those turning points.

[Ricky Craven]

Listen, you got hurt really bad.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. 1991, you know, I'm gonna win that championship. And, you know, broke the. Broke the rear end and wrecked my ass off. Had a positional vertigo, changed my life. But, buddy, I had to get back on the bike. It destroyed my life.

[Ricky Craven]

I don't think there are many people, but I'm one of them that know how difficult a period that was for you. And horrible. It was horrible. And you were compromised. There was. There were things that only time could resolve. And you were a hell of a racer, Kenny. You still are. I mean, I. I can't believe. Can't believe you have the enthusiasm that you continue to have.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, that. That brings. So I don't suppress. I have. Oh, this is about you right now. But that is a. That is the side of me. That is that devastation, you know? God, it was horrible. Let's just. Let's just go on. Okay. Brutal. The worst. Because I was the man. I was the man. And after that, it knocked the ever living out of me. I mean, I was seeing stars. You know what?

[Ricky Craven]

Like, that's what you. What you just gave us was an illustration of what you went through.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Okay. What you just gave us So I want you to snap out of it because nobody likes that side of you, okay? They want that kitty back. Get that kitty back.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. I mean, I was winning. I was winning. And then like, you, you know, I, I mean, I like you going, you know, after your injury, you went to loud and set on the pole and they still let you go. Yeah, well, you know, after that bad wreck, you know, I. I won right away at Martinsville.

[Ricky Craven]

But I can't believe that you can remember. Listen, you know, I just answered my own question. I was going to ask how do you remember that? But remember it?

[Kenny Wallace]

I didn't remember it. I got a secret. When I interview people and I'm not going to give it up, it's. Well, tell you when we get offline, it's. You can go down some rabbit holes and there's incredible articles. Yeah, but, but you know, I studied hard last night.

[Ricky Craven]

You have, you have equity in my life. I have equity in your life.

[Kenny Wallace]

No doubt.

[Ricky Craven]

That's an expression that I use with people that I'm close to. I mean, God, I love helping people. But I only. But, but, but that's a derivative of the fact that I've been helped by a lot of people. Like, you know, and the other thing I say, listen, I know we're going to run out of time, but I just want to get this in there somewhere. Like, you will. You will get out of life what you put in it. And you don't realize this when you were young, but you and I kind of, kind of touched on this recently. As you grow older and you gain wisdom, the among the things you control is who you associate with.

[Kenny Wallace]

Y.

[Ricky Craven]

And you become who you associate with to some degree. Like, just associate with people who compliment you, associate with people who make you feel good. Associate with people that, that you would want to be in a foxhole with. And, and then, and then don't be rude and don't dismiss people, but just favor the people that are. Are your people.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm laughing to myself because I, you know, I race a lot of dirt still and fans love heckle and me because of my popularity. And we'll be at a racetrack, I mean sat, you know, Saturday night, Highland Speedway, little. Little video racetrack. But I'll be at the back of my trailer, be done working on my car, and I'll look up and you can see a fan. They'll pick the pace up and here they come, and I'm like, here comes a heckler and they just want to get a shot in. And I, you know, I don't know what drives these people. They just, it's their chance to gain superiority, superiority over me. Just they want to belittle me just one time and then they're done. And I usually them tell, are you done?

[Ricky Craven]

You know, I had, I had a life changing experience. I had a life changing experience riding in the pickup, having qualified on the front row with Jeff Gordon in the late 90s. Yeah. And like, we're all sensitive to, you know, sensitive to that. Right, right, right. Oh, my gosh, Kenny, I'm telling you, I've never heard. I've never heard the level of disdain that I heard. This is back before I knew it existed. To be honestly, like, this is 1996. Okay. And the men and women are calling Jeff names that I never heard. I mean, and I'll be damned if some of the kids aren't saying it. I mean, it was awful. And at that point I realized.

[Kenny Wallace]

How.

[Ricky Craven]

Tough you need to be. And that is one of the things that Stan Maserv told me. When I was 15 years old, I won six consecutive races. When I was 16 years old, seven would have been the record. I was leading the race. The caution comes out. The guy that I'd been beating every week was 20 years older than me. On the restart, he turns left, cuts down my right front tire and sends me off. You know, I'm done. I come in the garage, I throw my helmet. I'm 16 years old. I want to fight. No. And Stan said, hey, how you act in the next few moments is going to define you for a while. He said, if you're going to do this and you're going to do it well and you're going to have success, you have to have skin like an alligator. And I said, I mean, it took me. I'm not that bright. Hell are you talking about?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. You know, but you, you don't go ahead.

[Ricky Craven]

Jeff Gordon had it. I mean, Jeff Gordon was, you know, everybody has an adversary and his was Dale Earnhardt and they all hated Jeff for a period of time.

[Kenny Wallace]

And is he kicking their ass? He's a normal person.

[Ricky Craven]

Jeff Gordon's a tough son of a gun.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well. And I want to say this, I want to add my thoughts to this because I love this subject. Just when I think my feelings now this things I've learned. I'm. I'm different now. Just when we think our feelings are getting hurt, just go to a winners. Nowadays we have social media, the that people talk to Kevin Harvick, Denny Hamlin, people, people despise these winners that. I mean, these people, they hate Joey Logano. They hate Denny Hamlin. You're right, Ricky. When you become a winner, the things that people say to you, you wouldn't let them say to your wife. I mean, it is a lesson how you don't know them, but. But it is. It is amazing psychological warfare with your brain to. I don't know these people. They're. They're losers.

[Ricky Craven]

I have to say that we. You know, I believe, and I want to believe. I mostly want to believe because I have no way of confirming it, but I want to believe that NASCAR's best days are ahead.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Having said that, I'm grateful that you and I and so many of. So many of us competed in the greatest period of nascar.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, we did.

[Ricky Craven]

It's just. I mean, it's incredible. Right?

[Kenny Wallace]

I tell people every day. I said, listen, I admit it. I was. You know, I was there when NASCAR was just ramping up. But you and I were right there.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And, buddy, we got out when it went. When it, you know, went from 300,000 people down to 70,000. Okay, look, I got a couple more that I really got to get in. You are now officially the longest, and I love it. Let's just hit on two things, okay? Two things.

[Ricky Craven]

Anything.

[Kenny Wallace]

1997 Daytona 500. You are part of. You know, they always say the core four, but I just thought that this was so badass. The Daytona 500. You are driving for Rick Hendrick. Jeff Gordon WINS the Daytona 500. Terry Lamani second. Ricky Craven's third. And there is that legendary pitcher. I mean, here's this guy from Newburgh, Maine. He wins third. You know, you win third in the Daytona 500, and the 300 cars are coming under the line. Looking at that picture, what's that make you think about? So I have.

[Ricky Craven]

I have actually a lot of emotions looking at that picture.

[Kenny Wallace]

I do, too. And I'm not you.

[Ricky Craven]

I have to preface it by saying that life goes so fast. And when I was in the game, I never paused to reflect on any of it, because I was always looking to the next week, the next race. So I've done a lot of that in the last 20 years and had the. And I. 1, 2, 3. In the Daytona 500. It was my debut for Hendrick Motorsports. And I remember. I have vivid memories of standing in the infield afterwards and not wanting to leave because I felt like, oh, my gosh, I'm on the cusp of greatness. I am going to have a phenomenal season and followed it up the next week with a top five at Rockingham. And after two races, Jeff's leading the points. I'm second in points. And a few weeks later, again, I got blood coming from both ears. I wake up in a helicopter with no vision. I'm all busted up, and I sign my next of kin while they're wheeling me into the trauma unit because I got no family with me. I remember Jeff Gordon sitting beside my bed that night, holding my hand. That's how deep our friendship is, just like you. And consequently, my days with Hendrik were over at that point. They were over because I had all of these emotions and these, you know, all these insecurities that are associated with being outside, you know, watching somebody in your car. Oh, my gosh. It's the most horrible experience of my professional life. I want to say my life, but it wasn't professional life. Horrible. But it made me so much better when I got the audience at espn. I could illustrate to people. I could describe that feeling when a driver was sidelined and how painful it was. And Dale Sr. When he broke his sternum, I think it was at Talladega, when he had to get out of the car, they allowed him to make a lap. He actually choked up. I mean, he showed a human side with a fire suit on. I've watched that interview a few times, and that's the effect it has on us. And so on one hand, 1, 2, 3, in the Daytona 500, it demonstrates the potential. On the other hand, Rick Hendrick had been diagnosed a couple of months earlier with leukemia.

[Kenny Wallace]

I remember.

[Ricky Craven]

And Rick Hendrick was never able to come to one of my races.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'll be darn.

[Ricky Craven]

I'm telling you something I've never shared with anyone other than Jeff, because we're. Because we have these kind of conversations. But if ever somebody needed the guidance of Rick Hendrick, it was me when I came back from those injuries, because on several levels, on many levels, I was compromised, and my confidence was shot. My attitude was fragmented, because when you have a head injury, like, there's some crazy things that go on. That's one of the things that kind of connected Dale Jr. And I later in his career is that I could understand some of the things he was going through. And so if, you know, you don't have many regrets in life, but the ones you have, they stick with you. And I regret that I. I regret that I didn't capitalize on my opportunity of Hendrik, you know, but on the. On the tail end of that, I became A better driver for Cal Wells and Tide and had my. Made my best days.

[Kenny Wallace]

I. I'm right there with you. I was, like, intent on that. I mean, that was very emotional for me because I experienced the exact same thing.

[Ricky Craven]

Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Listen, everybody. Head injuries are no joke. My wife was catching my vomit out of my mouth after. After my loud New Hampshire wreck.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah. I've never. I've never shared with people the things I went through in my rehabilitation. But at my lowest point, the repetitiveness of what they, what I was required to do.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

Was very discouraging. And in my right ear, they put me in a gyro that would spin and they blew in my ear and they changed the temp, my body temperature just by 1 or 2 degrees. They did it with my left ear. Fine. They measured your rapid eye movement at the same time that. That determines, like, if you become disoriented and are going to pass out. They. They put the device in my right ear and they spin the gyro and I start puking, I start vomiting. I mean, immediately. And it took a long time to reach a point where that no longer existed. I get to a point where I've plateaued and this is something that would never see the light of day. But now I can talk about anything. My left ear was 100%. My right ear was like 78%. And I said, I can't. And they, I can't, I can't. I'll never get back to driving. And they said, no. I said, I want you to measure Jeff Gordon's ears. Okay. I want. I want you to study Jeff's vestibular system so I can compare it. And then I have something to shoot for. And they said, can't. You can't do it. I said, I know he'll volunteer for it. He's my teammate and my friend. And they said, no, it's irrelevant. You are born with a certain makeup and complex. And so when nascar. Fast forward to what we all lived through when we lost several drivers and then lost Dale. NASCAR implemented some amazing things. Life changing things. And I've always been an advocate of the baseline testing because of what I just shared with all of you. There was no baseline testing then. You see what I mean? So I never. My doctor signed off on me because they said, they concluded that I was 100%. I felt 100%, but my 100% might be different than somebody else's 100%. And you don't know that unless you have that data. And you know, this is that analytical side of me that, like, you know, that's what my recovery was like. Like really small steps, baby steps. And it was agonizing. And full disclosure, if I'm, if I'm brutally honest about this, I probably didn't feel. I probably wasn't back to form until like three years.

[Kenny Wallace]

But you know what? We are badasses because we overcame and we prevailed. And this is. I'm numb right now because I can remember after my New Hampshire deal, you know, I'm like, I'm, you know, I was leading the championship over Labani. I was going to win the championship and I cannot. I got in that car at Rockingham and you remember Rockingham and those white hash marks.

[Ricky Craven]

Yes.

[Kenny Wallace]

And the track was moving on me. I couldn't even get up to speed.

[Ricky Craven]

There's no way you can operate like that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, let's, let's forget we're done with that brutal but really good stuff. That will be a high when. When, when The Kenny Walsh YouTube show and Dirty. This is the things Charlie will highlight because people love bad stuff be. Because it shows vulnerability and it shows that the stuff that you go to. To be overcome. And you and I, you and I overcame.

[Ricky Craven]

We all love perspective. Right. I want to give you an ounce of perspective from somebody that, that I admire, I always have, is Ernie Irvin. We were both at Michigan on this misty morning when Ernie had. Had hit the wall and turned two.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yep.

[Ricky Craven]

And listen, he is a miracle. He is his determination and his resolve. And I'll, I've been on the record for saying this, that Ernie was a championship driver. Like we drivers are the greatest evaluators of talent because we share the asphalt and, and it's, it's. He. Ernie was so good, so good that he came back from somewhat compromised, in my opinion.

[Kenny Wallace]

He won with one eye at Wilkesboro.

[Ricky Craven]

Yes.

[Kenny Wallace]

A Cup race with one friggin eye.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah. But he, but he won. He won cup races. When he came back, I mean, if.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm Robert Yates and Doug Yates, I'm just like, this is unbelievable. They let him get in the car with one eye, a patch over the other eye. One of the greatest miracles in cup racing history.

[Ricky Craven]

Yeah, it's quite, it's quite, it's a fascinating story. And you know, I, I give him and his, his family all the credit in the world because I've been through some of that and you've been through some of that and it's perspective. You know, you need perspective in life. All the way through life. It's great. If you can talk Openly and gain perspective from someone else. It's, it's, it's powerful as hell.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, let's end like this. Hey, let's end on a really. PMA positive mental attitude. All right, 2003, Darlington. You win in one of the most historical finishes in NASCAR history. You, you and Kurt Busch. How the hell y' all didn't wreck a lap before? I don't know, because I can feel that racetrack as I'm talking to you right now. You come off a turn four and you beat him at that time, the closest finish in NASCAR history. Tell me about that whole deal.

[Ricky Craven]

So the. There's a short version, but I'm not going to give you that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Give me the good stuff.

[Ricky Craven]

You have to go back a year. I win the pole position the year before 2002, and I wake up that morning knowing today's the day, I'm going to win the race. And I jump out to the lead and Steve park had come back from his injuries and he was running crazy fast. And he and I were battling like it was the closing laps. We come upon a lap car and we friggin wrecked leading or battling for the lead. And I was. I threw up in my mouth. I was so disgusted with myself. And I sat down in the infield with the window net up and I wouldn't do interviews. I just. I just hate myself for what I did because I know. I know better. Darlington, you race the track. You do not race each other. A year later, we qualify. Horrible. Like 30th, Scott Miller asks me, are we all right? And I go, my God, we're better than all right. We were so good in practice, but we weren't lightning fast. But I learned the year before you don't need to be lightning fast. And we get into the race, and I swear to you, Kenny, I only remember being passed by one car all day, and that was Kurt Busch. Late in the race, we methodically moved forward and the last segment, last 40 laps, I literally had something left in the tank. I literally had. I saved it for when it mattered most. And that was the tail end of my career. And maybe I knew it, maybe I knew it subconsciously. That was the beginning of Kurt's career. And he was lightning fast. And I caught him and I passed him and I bumped him and he got pissed off and he jacked me up with two laps to go. Turned me sideways, went back by me, and everybody thought the race was over, over. And I said to myself, I got one more chance. I mean, in the moment, I said there's no way I'm gonna pass this prick. Okay? That's. I mean, I'm. I'm mad in the car because he jacked the wrecking, but I said I'm so much better than him in three and four that I just got to beat him back to the line off of four. And. And I did not expect the finish to be what it was. I maintain he came down on me coming off of four. He maintains I slid out. I think it was a combination of the two things, and it was some of the best driving I did in my life, the last 500 yards. Right. But that race defines me, which. Thank you. Thank you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ricky Craven]

I mean, that race defines me. Otherwise, people might be talking about my Talladega wreck or whatever. That's all people want to talk about. And I really believe that maybe I had enough. I might have had enough equity with God that he said, hey, I'm going to give you this, but this is all you're getting. Okay, you're done. Because that was really kind of the tail end of my career. Now, the real irony to this discussion is that I didn't really care for Kurt. I mean, it went back to a couple of things that didn't even involve me. For instance, Kurt went three wide at Rockingham and wrecked Terry Lovati. And the next week, he came in and he said, should I go? I saw him, and he goes, hey, should I go talk to Terry? And I said, it'd be a good idea. And he goes, why? I mean, I'm just racing. I said, no, no, no. Nobody wrecks Terry. Nobody wrecks Terry. And he went over and apologized, and it was good. But Kurt was ruffling a lot of feathers early on. Right. Since that win, Kurt has become a very good friend, and he has championed this race and this event. In fact, we're doing a deal at New Hampshire Speedway in September. We're reliving this together at New Hampshire. And he's just a wonderful guy. I think the world occurred, and he's been a real credit to the sport, and he's had his adversity, and he never ran from it. And I think the world occurred because of. Because of how we connected.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well put and a great way to end. And I want to say that I think NASCAR should invite drivers just like that to the NASCAR hall of Fame. And I've always asked Winston Kelly, when he was there, I said, why don't you bring these drivers back one night, you know, at the NASCAR hall of Fame in their. You know, their area, There. That was incredible. I can only imagine the speeches you can give with that great race, Ricky. And listen, everybody, go ahead.

[Ricky Craven]

You and I, every time we cross paths, we'd say, when are you going to come and spend the weekend with me at the racetrack? And I say the next. Next time. The next time. So what are we going to do? Because like, I've got. I've got a bucket list. I've knocked down one of my bucket list.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ricky Craven]

But I do need to. I want to spend that weekend with you.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'll let you know. I'm coming towards the end here. I love racing, but I'm getting. I'm. Like you said, I'm getting tired.

[Ricky Craven]

Don't end it until I get. I want to experience that with you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes, you will. I will tell you. You. Well, I want you to come. Just stay in the little party. I got a little shop up here. You stay up there, we'll go eat. You know, you get in the pickup truck, we'll get the pit pass, we'll race, we're gonna. You're just gonna be my sidekick and I'll. I'll show you everything. And I. I love you, Ricky. I really do. Listen up, everybody. That is it. A record. One minute. My timer says one minute and 40 something. If you want to see Ricky Craven's pretty face, you log on to the Kenny Wallace YouTube show. If you want to listen to Ricky, you log on to Dale Junior's Dirty Mo Media Kenny Conversation podcast. Two ways two way. I about went almost did a Jake Keller. He said. I think Jake said four tires and he hold three fingers up. Thank you, buddy. Yeah, two ways until the next Kenny Conversation. We'll see you all next time. Goodbye.

[Ricky Craven]

Foreign.

[Kenny Wallace]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Possibility means you have a chance. Passion opens the door to all possibilities. When I feel like anything's possible, I.

[Ricky Craven]

Feel kind of giddy.

[Kenny Wallace]

I want to be an astronaut, an.

[Ricky Craven]

Actress to visit another country. All I need is a backpack and.

[Kenny Wallace]

A pair of shoes and I'll find a way. I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. I've never felt like more things are.

[Ricky Craven]

Possible than right now. In the right shoes, anything's possible. Dsw Countless shoes at brag worthy prices. Imagine the possibilities.