Steve O'Donnell: There's A New Sheriff In Town

Summary

Herm & Schrader Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Steve O'Donnell: There's A New Sheriff In Town
Release Date: April 30, 2026
Podcast Hosts: Kenny Wallace (“Herm”), Ken Schrader
Produced By: SiriusXM, Dirty Mo Media
Episode Guest: Steve O’Donnell, Newly Minted NASCAR President

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Episode Overview

This lively episode features NASCAR’s new president, Steve O’Donnell, joining Midwest racing legends Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader. The conversation is loose, honest, and full of the irreverent humor the Herm & Schrader podcast is known for. Wallace dives deep into O’Donnell’s path to the top job, his view on NASCAR’s history and culture, the importance of authentic personalities, the evolving fan experience, and the future direction of the sport—including hot-button topics like hybrid and electric vehicles and attracting new fans. The episode is equal parts storytelling and genuine insight into the current state and future of NASCAR.

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Steve O’Donnell’s Backstory & Personality

Early Life and Education (00:53–05:46)

• Born in New Jersey, raised in Massachusetts, and even spent part of his youth in Egypt, thanks to parents in education.

• Quote:

  “We, you know, went to an international school. Probably about 60% American kids... I loved it. I mean, I got to travel a lot, learned a lot.”
  —Steve O'Donnell (02:40)

• Family settled in Florida; O’Donnell attended Rollins College.

• “I actually went there to try and play baseball… maybe had a few too many beers and didn’t make the team. But I got some lifelong friends that are still there.” (05:27)

Entry Into NASCAR (06:06–08:39)

• Started in minor league baseball and event promotion; worked at the Florida Citrus Bowl before joining NASCAR in 1996.
• His first NASCAR job involved “handing out hats in victory lane,” selling sponsorships, managing contingency programs, and generally starting at the bottom.
• Quote:

  “You had to interact with everybody. And you better be nice to everybody or you’re gonna be out of there pretty quick.”
  —Steve O'Donnell (08:24)

First Non-France Family NASCAR President (10:09–12:36)

• Wallace notes the historic significance:
  “You are the first NASCAR president in NASCAR history to not be a France. That’s gotta make you speechless, I would think.” (10:55)
• O’Donnell humbly frames his new role as just “trying to make things happen and grow the sport,” emphasizing the importance of humility and consistency.

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Leadership Philosophy & Approach

Visibility and Accessibility (13:52–16:30)

• Wallace observes O’Donnell’s presence at the track, comparing him to “old school” leaders like Bill France Jr.; O’Donnell says being at the track is crucial.

• Quote:

  “Part of it is just being there... you’d be amazed at how many conversations or people you catch up with—through all walks of the garage.”
  —Steve O’Donnell (14:31)

• On being approachable:

  “I want to be approachable. ...why I’m in this job... honestly, turn, putting people in positions to grow the sport beyond me, because I love doing that.”
  —Steve O’Donnell (16:30)

Vision for Driver & Fan Connection (17:23–19:10)

• O’Donnell seeks to “get NASCAR back to rocking,” making drivers accessible and reviving the garage mood.
• Wallace notes the unique access fans have to drivers, which O’Donnell values deeply.

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Talladega Weekend: Atmosphere, Winners, and Cultural Shifts

Recapping Talladega (21:18–24:12)

• First time attending Talladega as president, O’Donnell describes the unique atmosphere:
  • Three first-time winners (ARCA, O’Reilly, Cup).
  • Huge “boost with superstars,” referencing Michael Jordan, Cletus McFarland, Jason Kelce on pit crew.
  • Observes a notably younger crowd enjoying the infield party scene.
• Quote:

  “If everybody in America could go experience that just one time, I think you’d be a fan for life.”
  —Steve O’Donnell (24:03)

Changing Fan Experience (25:26–26:40)

• Describes new amenities (e.g., The Barn in Talladega’s infield) and shifting expectations around entertainment, value, and amenities.
• Anecdote: Attending The Masters—“No phones, $2 for a beer, $2 for a sandwich... cool experience. That’s what it’s all about.” (26:01)

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NASCAR’s Evolving Audience: The Power of Celebrity & Social Media

Celebrity Impact, Social Media, and Podcasts (28:39–33:26)

• Discusses the impact of celebrity attendees (Michael Jordan, Cletus McFarland, Jason Kelce, Marshawn Lynch) drawing in new audiences.

  “All those guys bring new eyeballs, but it’s got to be authentic. And so with Michael Jordan... he’s a true fan. He stays all race, stays after the race, and he is there.” —Steve O’Donnell (30:04)

• Cletus McFarland’s 5 million YouTube followers and authentic engagement.
• Podcasts are now critical to marketing and connecting with fans; long-form allows personalities to shine and real context to emerge.

The Shifting Cultural Narrative of NASCAR (33:26–39:56)

• Wallace and O’Donnell discuss why NASCAR’s “cool factor” waned and how it connects to fan/drivers’ relationships, changing tracks, and cultivating new versus legacy audiences.

  “We chased some new fans at the risk of losing some of the old ones. And... the new fans would really appreciate this sport if we kept doing some of the things that drove the sport as we grew.”
  —Steve O’Donnell (36:24)

• Learnings from overbuilding large tracks and their impact on racing quality (38:40+).

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Personalities, Inclusivity, and the Next Generation

Driver Personalities & Cletus McFarland’s ARCA Run (41:47–44:26)

• Authenticity and relatability are keys for NASCAR stars—both legacy and newcomers.

• O’Donnell praises Cletus’ blend of humility, effort, and authentic love of racing:

  “He didn’t come in and say, ‘I’m the man, put me in the Daytona 500 tomorrow because I have all these followers.’ I think he respected the sport and said, ‘I want to make it, but I want to do it the right way.’” (41:47)

• On licensing/approval for Cletus: other drivers’ and fans’ standards must be uniformly applied; he's progressing through the right steps.

Personalities in Victory Lane & Modern Star Power (45:27–50:32)

• Wallace relates Carson Hocevar’s Talladega win to iconic personalities (“Ayrton Senna,” “Frank Sinatra”).
• O’Donnell: “He stayed after, signed every single autograph… just how he handles himself, you know, I’m going to Chili’s, and brought the whole team… just had a little party. It was old school.” (46:08)
• The importance of drivers hustling for sponsors and connecting with fans is highlighted as vital for growing and sustaining teams.

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NASCAR’s Stance: Personality, Passion & Language

Letting Drivers Show Personality (51:19–54:32)

• O’Donnell is clear: NASCAR wants drivers to show more emotion—just not weaponize cars or get physically out of control.

  “...Personality is what people are all about… if you came in second, you’re pissed off... Show some emotion.” (51:55)

• On cussing: NASCAR is more relaxed but still attentive to context and family-friendliness.

  “We want drivers to be themselves, but we also want to make it so some kids can tune in, too.” (54:17)

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The Future: Electric and Hybrid Cars, Brand Rivalries

The Electric Vehicle Question & the O’Reilly Series (56:33–62:30)

• O’Donnell corrects the record: there’s no plan for an all-electric national series in 2030. NASCAR is ready to pivot if fans or OEMs demand it, but retaining "the essence" of racing—speed, sound, horsepower—is the priority.

  “I don’t see a day... that anyone’s knocking down our doors from the oem saying we need an electric series at the national series level.” (62:30)

• Discussion of OEM involvement, relevance of crossovers, and F1’s struggles with hybrid tech as a cautionary tale.

Brand Wars & Pride (64:32–65:55)

• Wallace and O’Donnell agree: empowering brand loyalty—Ford vs. Chevy vs. Toyota, etc.—is core to NASCAR’s ethos and growth. OEMs are beginning to use drivers more in campaigns, which is a positive development.

  “If we can get more of that... we need more OEM partners and guys associating with the brands and… showing them when we’re at our peak.” (64:32)

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Memorable Quotes & Standout Moments

• “You are the first NASCAR president in NASCAR history to not be a France.” —Kenny Wallace (10:55)
• “If everybody in America could go experience [Talladega] just one time, I think you’d be a fan for life.” —Steve O’Donnell (24:03)
• “We want drivers to be themselves, but we also want to make it so some kids can tune in too.” —Steve O’Donnell (54:17)
• “He [Cletus] respected the sport and said, ‘I want to make it, but I want to do it the right way.’” —Steve O’Donnell (41:47)
• “...Our fans are the most passionate in all those sports. They love the sport and it is their sport. And I think a lot of our fans felt like you took that away and you took kind of that essence of nascar.”—Steve O’Donnell (36:24)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Steve O’Donnell’s early life and background: 00:53–06:06
• Beginnings at NASCAR, working “from the bottom up”: 06:06–08:39
• Historic moment: Not a France at the top: 10:09–12:36
• Leadership style—being visible at the track: 13:52–16:30
• Reviving the “fan connection” and driver accessibility: 17:23–19:56
• Talladega weekend and reflections: 21:18–24:12
• Fan experience innovation; The Masters and Talladega amenities: 26:01–26:40
• Impact of celebrity and influencers, social media reach: 28:39–33:26
• Why NASCAR lost/later regained “cool” status: 33:26–39:56
• About Cletus McFarland and next-gen personalities: 41:47–44:26
• Driver authenticity, post-race fan/sponsor engagement: 45:27–50:32
• Allowing more driver personality, stance on language: 51:19–54:32
• Clarifying the electric/hybrid narrative: 56:33–62:30
• Brand rivalries, “what wins on Sunday” discussion: 64:32–65:55

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode is candid, passionate, and self-deprecating—equal parts nostalgic and future-facing. O’Donnell’s leadership style is open and relational; he wants NASCAR’s leaders, drivers, and fans connected and visible. He sees the future shaped by authentic personalities (from viral YouTubers like Cletus McFarland to new-wave racers like Carson Hocevar and Jesse Love), evolving fan experiences, and readiness for technological shifts, all while fiercely protecting the “essence” of NASCAR: community, horsepower, and brand rivalries.

Closing Thought:
“Keep doing that and don’t be afraid to call me and tell me where I am screwing up, which I know you will now.”
—Steve O’Donnell to Kenny Wallace (66:35)

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*For anyone inside or outside the racing world, this episode is a masterclass in how tradition, leadership, and fan passion shape a modern sport in flux.

Transcript

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation. Brought to you by i55 Federated Auto Parts Raceway park right here in Peavely, Missouri. Dirt racing every Saturday night. Okay everybody, I don't say this very much, but deep breath. I got, I'm taking a deep breath. The boss is in town. The president, the newest president of nascar, Steve o'. Donnell. Steve, how are you doing?

[Steve O'Donnell]

I'm doing great man. Happy to be on Herm.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, it means a lot to me, you know, I have fun and I want to let you know I respect you. I respect your position. Chip Weil was my PR guy back in the day.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh my gosh.

[Kenny Wallace]

And he became the president of the Daytona Speedway. Paul Do Shaw, he was my buddy and he became the president of Toyota and, and now I consider you my friend. And now you're the president.

[Steve O'Donnell]

You're making it happen. You're making it happen. I love it.

[Kenny Wallace]

I thought I would have fun with you at first. So Steve, I want to celebrate you and we're going to get into the bolts and nuts. Let's start like this. 57 years young. You're a young man. I especially like this. Born in New Jersey but raised in Massachusetts. What was that all about?

[Steve O'Donnell]

No, I moved to. My parents were education so I was born in Jersey and then we moved up to Massachusetts for a little bit. My dad was a principal and my mom taught. And then I lived overseas actually in Egypt.

[Kenny Wallace]

I see that.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep. And then I've been in Florida, I think. Geez, I don't know, 40, 40 some years now in Florida it says your

[Kenny Wallace]

family moved to Egypt and you lived near Cairo. What was that like?

[Steve O'Donnell]

It was wild. It was wild. We, you know, went to an international school. It's probably about 60% American kids. And, you know, a lot of people whose, you know, folks maybe were working the oil industry or travel, that kind of thing. So I loved it. I mean, I got to travel a lot, learned a lot, and we'd come back to the States, you know, every summer I'd be. Be in Pennsylvania, around all those dirt tracks.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah, the Pennsylvania posse.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh, man, that hardcore. Hardcore.

[Kenny Wallace]

One of my car owners in the past, Felix Sabata, says, you have to be worldly. It. I think you're worldly. Are you worldly?

[Steve O'Donnell]

I'm not sure. Some may say that. But I do have an appreciation, you know, for, for what's out there and, and maybe some possibilities for the sport, you know, longer term if we do it the right way. One, one thing I've, I've seen Kenny is when, when we take some races, you know, we've had some races in Europe just like our, our touring series. And the passion of those fans, man, is unbelievable. When they see NASCAR and then, you know, when Jim brought that Garage 56, I. I've never seen people in France cheer on an American car ever in my life. But it was, it was really, really cool.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, there's a lot to say about that and I really never thought about that. But, you know, I just got back from Nurburgring. I was over in Europe.

[Steve O'Donnell]

It's a good spot, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm going to tell you what you know before, I want to still talk about you, but while we're on this moment, overseas, they are head over heels. Ferrari versus Mercedes Benz. It seems like the automakers, you know, Porsche, Mercedes from Stuttgart, Germany, I think that's healthy. Does from your point as the NASCAR president, do you like it? Fans love their automakers.

[Steve O'Donnell]

I think it's awesome. And the passion. You see Ferrari right when they're racing in Italy and just the flag waving and everything, I think they're on to something. You know, it's, it's. We kind of had some of that and you know, hopefully as Dodge kind of comes back in, maybe we'll see more of that and drivers who are kind of with their specific OEM partner. But no, I think it's great for the sport.

[Kenny Wallace]

I don't hear people talk about, you know, your beginnings. I want to show your respect. And just one more thing here, my friend. You went to Rollins College. You're worldly. You went to college. Your mom and dad are smart. Tell me about Rollins College. I mean, I guess that was part of your life.

[Steve O'Donnell]

It was, man. Pretty. Pretty small school. It's In Winter Park, Florida. I think it's only about 1800 kids. I actually went there to try and play baseball. Herm.

[Kenny Wallace]

But you're tall enough.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, but maybe, maybe had a few too many beers and, and didn't make the team. But I got, I got some lifelong friends that are still there. Grew up. My son actually just got married last week and he went to Rollins as well. So it was cool to kind of be back and see some of the, see some of the folks.

[Kenny Wallace]

So before you started your journey with nascar, it, you know, I studied up on this. Says you work for a communications company. You were down at, what, the Daytona Cubs, and later you worked at the Florida Citrus Bowl. Tell me about that early part of communications.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, so I think one of the things that, that helped me, you know, when I first came into nascar too, is it's almost like minor league baseball was almost like working for a track. So I was out, you know, had to sell tickets, group sales, put promotions together around different events that we did at the ballpark. You know, I know you're a big Cardinals fan, right? And you, if you go to the minor league games, right, you don't have a lot of big name players, so you got to just sell the sport and what's happening. So I've lear a lot about that, was able to do a lot of cool things as part of that, and then ended up over at the Citrus bowl in Orlando and got lucky enough that NASCAR said, hey, man, maybe this guy could, could come on board and got a job in 96. And it's been a, it's been a fun ride.

[Kenny Wallace]

I, I think it's fair to say that you, you started at the bottom and you've worked your way to the top. And something that I saw that caught me off guard, I'm like, whoa, time flies. You've been with NASCAR for over 30 years. I mean, 30, 31. Is that right?

[Steve O'Donnell]

That's right. It is crazy. I was like, man, I'm old. You know, it went by quick.

[Kenny Wallace]

We're going to get to the bolts and nuts pretty soon. Everybody, we're talking to NASCAR president Steve o'. Donnell. You started out with NASCAR when you went to work for them handing out hats in victory lane?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

When you first went to work for nascar, what did it feel like? I mean, did you feel like, I'm going to work for a company or you're like, oh, my gosh, this is nascar?

[Steve O'Donnell]

No, no, the opposite. Yeah, this is nascar. But it, it was, it was wild because I, I showed up And Jeff Ding, who's over with Track House, was my boss. And we, you know, we went to the NASCAR headquarters, which at the time I think maybe had 30 people. So I walked in, I was like, this is a cool building. And he said, yeah, now this is not where we work. We're down on Blue Road by the river. What's down there? And we had three kind of main jobs. It was Victory Lane, pre race, and then we did all the contingency programs, you know, the decals on the front quarter panel. My job was to go out and sell those companies and try and bring some money to the. To the competitors. And then we lugged around coolers everywhere with the Gatorade program, when we used to be with Gatorade with old Ed Scholl. So it was a good time. I learned a lot. You know, you got to see everybody, right, from the CEOs in Victory Lane to the security guard, and you had to interact with everybody. And you better be nice to everybody or you're going to be out of there pretty quick.

[Kenny Wallace]

I want to have fun just for a minute. I know Jim France has a place, as you would say, down on the river.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Was it that. That tan building that you all were working out of?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Next to the Armory building?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep. Exactly. Right? Yep. Yep. We had a warehouse in the back. It was me and Jeff Dowling, and we just. That was our spot. And it was good. Good. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Daytona Beach, Florida, really is nascar. I think about all the history. You know, obviously, I was a CUP Crew Chief in 84. I started racing in, you know, the Busch series in 89. I was lucky to learn a little bit about Daytona. It begs this question. Now that you're the NASCAR president, how have things changed? Where are you located? Have you stayed in the same place?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, so I probably split my time Daytona and Charlotte. So, you know, you know, we got the office downtown in Charlotte and then up at the R and D center and the media center. So I. I probably split 50, 50, and then probably go to the majority of the races. So I'll be in Daytona usually, like, come back from the races maybe Monday, Tuesday, and then try and get up to North Carolina and split some time. But a lot of time at the racetrack, too, because that's where everybody is. And it's also where you. You get a lot done just by being around.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Okay, Mr. O', Donnell, are you ready to go now?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Let's go. Let's go.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I know you're ready, and I appreciate that. I always like to explain to people where they come from. We see that a lot with the drivers. You know, what's your mom and dad do? Where'd you get your money? And it is interesting. The people do want to know. So I think we laid it down, everybody, once again, talking to NASCAR president Steve o'. Donnell. His past is really interesting. He is worldly, and he is your newest NASCAR president. Okay, the first one, it gave me goosebumps. You are the first NASCAR president in NASCAR history to not be a France. You are not a family member. Man, that's gotta make you speechless. I would think.

[Steve O'Donnell]

I, I, I kind of knew that, but didn't know it. Right. And I think, you know, Mike Elton always, always would tell me, you know, just remember that every morning right when you get up, you know, you're, you're working for nascar. You are not NASCAR in terms of, you know, if, if you ever left here tomorrow or got told to be on your way, you probably wouldn't get as many callbacks and as many people reaching out. And, you know, it was kind of a good lesson for Mike because it was like, you know, you better be the same person you are, and no matter what role you have at nascar. So, yeah, I'm humbled to be, to be that person. But, you know, know, I look at it as just another person trying to, to make things happen and grow the sport.

[Kenny Wallace]

I mean, this tongue in cheek. I've always thought that one of Mike Helton's advantages was he was tall in stature. One of one of my dear friends, Bob Sergeant.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I tease Bob all the time. Yeah, and we know that. We talked to Bob, and I said, what's it feel like having NASCAR think something of you? You know, you all had him there running the Richmond weekend. And, and I always tell Bob, I say, bob, one of the vans you have is. You're tall. And buddy, I'm gonna tell you what, Mr. O', Donnell, you are a tall man. I like that because I feel like it's, you know, you look like a boss. You're tall. You said you wanted to play baseball. I just, I don't have a question. I just want to let you know that I think you and Mike, you and Mr. Mike Helton, you both are tall, and it's good.

[Steve O'Donnell]

If I could do half the things Mike did, I'd be a happy man, because the respect that guy's got is well earned, obviously. But it's incredible, and it's universal in the garage, which is great.

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[Kenny Wallace]

So this is my opinion and it is a question. My opinion is, you know, I'll be 63 in August and I've seen a little bit, I can remember when Bill France Jr. Was smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer at one of our softball games and I went over and I sat on the picnic bench. I think we're up around Watkins Glen and always saw him around the racetrack and I feel like you are bringing that back. I was at Austin, Texas at code and there you were, your feet had to hurt, you were walking everywhere. Are you bringing that back?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, I think we've got to do that, you know, and we've got some new folks too at NASCAR and some that have been there a long time. And I think it's important to be at the track, have a presence and a lot of times I think for a while, Herm, we got to a point where while, you know, so and so didn't go because I don't really have anything to do and I feel weird, you know, if I'm not doing anything. And part of it is just being there, sitting outside the hauler and you'd be amazed at how many conversations or how many people you catch up with through all walks of the garage. Right. From somebody driving the hauler to you getting in the in the car to go out there and race. And that's where ideas come from. That's where I think people see that we're all in this together, you know, no one wants. It's a long season, as you know, right. It's a Grind. And, you know, no one wants to see a. Somebody floating in maybe once every, you know, two months to say, hey, how are things going? I mean, we're all part of this. And I think it's really important to me and everybody at nascar.

[Kenny Wallace]

Years ago, I was on a commercial airliner with the great basketball player Larry Bird.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh, wow.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah, it was pretty cool. And we were talking, you know, of course, I did my very best to not, you know, rough him up. We were sitting next to each other, and we were part of Miller Brewing. We're going to Vegas. So when I got my nerves up, I said, you know, I did that same old deal. God, you're so popular. You know, do people attack you? And this has to do with you being at the racetrack. I mean, you're Steve od Donnell, you're the NASCAR president. But Larry Bird said, you know, people stare at me, but they're almost afraid to come up to me. I. I think it's good that you're there, because most part, people are going to be afraid of you, but you're going to have those people that do want to come up. And. And I think if somebody comes up to you six times in two days, I think that's a lot because people are afraid of the leaders.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, I agree with you. And sometimes I think, you know, Harvick's told me this a few times, and it's true. And I think I got this from my mom. You would have this, you know, she wouldn't smile as much. And I'm the same. I don't realize it. Like, I'm walking through the garage and in a good mood, but someone will be like, hey, man, everything all right? And I'm like, yeah, what. What's going on here? And so my wife, always someone, just. Just smile a little bit more. And I'm like, okay. Because I want to be approachable. I. I love people. To me, while I'm in this, why I'm in this job is, you know, why I'm still here, hopefully, is I just love the conversations, being around people, honestly, turn, putting people in positions to. To grow the sport beyond me, because I love doing that. I love coaching folks. So that's, you know, to me, I'm definitely a people person and want to have. Want to be approachable, for sure.

[Kenny Wallace]

Before we get to the Teladega weekend, which I think is exciting, I. I want to tell you my feelings about this. I've listened to you. I listen to every word you say. And something that I keep hearing Verbatim, over and over since, you know, since the wintertime. You said, I want to get NASCAR back. I want to get it to rocking again. You know, I want to make the drivers accessible. I mean, I believe you. I mean, I can see it. How important is you? Is it to you? I mean, listen, we all see it, you know, I mean, nothing is like it used to be. You know, it's like asking the 102 year old lady what's changed? What's changed? And she said, everything's changed.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep. I don't like it. I don't like it. Yep, yep. I think no, it's, it's, that's our sport. And what people love about our sport is the ability to show up at a racetrack, see you, maybe even have two second conversation with you, right? Or even point and say, man, I saw Kenny Wallace. How cool was that? And we got away from that a little bit. There was so much pressure, right? A lot of things going on in the industry, but it's not going to happen overnight. But I think the mood in the garage feels good. You know, we got a lot of work to do, but I'm excited about the drivers. We have drivers coming up through the system. So a little bit, it sounds really kind of small time, but it's also having a little fun. Look, this is big time racing, right? There's a lot of pressure on everybody to win on Sunday, win on Saturday, but also I think just to remember how lucky we all are to be part of something, we could be doing a lot of other things, right, that some folks are having to do and, and, and they're tuning in, watching the sport, which is really cool.

[Kenny Wallace]

Once again, my, my opinion. And, and then a question. It would have been very easy in my opinion. And you're here to straighten me out. You know, the France family go, okay, Ben Kennedy, but they chose you. And then what I really liked was Ben got on social media and said he was jacked up that you were the NASCAR president and he's ready to go, man. I mean, you know, when we look at, when followers look at leadership, that's what sets the tone. It really made me, I was smiling when I read that. Ben made a great statement. He's ready, he's ready to go. He's your team member.

[Steve O'Donnell]

He 100%. And Ben is a kid who, you know, has done it all. Like, you know, he came up in the sport, right. He raced and I think has a tremendous amount of respect because he did that. You know, he's put the helmet On I didn't do that and I got a huge amount of respect for anyone who's ever done that and a lot to learn in that space. But I think Ben, one of the highlights of my job is watching him grow and continue to grow. And he's a guy who works his ass off every day, wants to be a part of this, wants to see it keep going, wants to work with everyone in the industry, which is key, you know, and I think we got a great partnership and, you know, I'm going to do what I can to see him keep growing. And I think the folks, at least that I talk to, unless they're BS and me and some may be doing that, but I think a lot of people have a lot of respect for him and the fact that he does show up and he doesn't have to at times. Right. But he's there and he's done it and he's going to continue to learn.

[Kenny Wallace]

As you know, we've had him on Kenny conversation. I said, ben, did, did it suck having to quit being a race car driver, knowing, you know, I mean, he won Bristol. I mean, this is not. But you know, he gave me the typical answer, oh, I had to do

[Steve O'Donnell]

it, you know, so he still misses it. He's definitely. Yeah, yeah. If, if you get him. Yeah, he'll, he, he, he'd say it. Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

Still, he's, he, he's a racer, so. All right, let's go to Talladega, everybody. Deep breath. We're talking with NASCAR president Steve o'. Donnell. You went to Talladega last weekend for, is your first time as the NASCAR president. And it was, you know, everybody, it was like, it was like they knew you were showing up because I think you, you were handed a great weekend, a lot of happiness. And, and here's what I mean. And I want you to respond. You went to Talladega your first race weekend and you had three first time winners. We had a first time winner in Arca, first time winner in O'Reilly, first time winner in Cup. We saw a really big boost with superstars. You know, obviously you got your Michael Jordan, you got Cletus, you had Jason Kelsey. Just the freshest memory you got. Tell me about that. That darn Talladega weekend.

[Steve O'Donnell]

It was awesome. And I got, I think I got pretty lucky.

[Kenny Wallace]

It was awesome.

[Steve O'Donnell]

I mean, I got there Friday, you know, and the ARCA race. So, so everything you would have won, right? First time winner. But you also were coming down to, we could have had the first ever female winner, right? With Isabella, who was. And then you had Cletus, like. And Squirrel. And you're like, what's going on here? And Cletus is a couple laps from winning the race. It was fantastic. So that alone, it was like, this is really cool. And then it led into, you know, Saturday, Sunday, which were incredible. I mean, seeing what happened with the winner, Jason Kelsey, actually on the pit, you know, pit crew, which was crazy. And then Sunday, I thought, you know, listen, I know Cosin Horsevar can be, you know, a little bit divisive, maybe in the garage area. But, you know, people want personalities. People want drivers to be themselves. And I said it post race. I thought that was the coolest celebration I've ever seen. That was just, you know, I wish you didn't hit the wall there at the end. But it was cool as hell and the fans reacted. And then one last thing, Kenny. I got asked, I think, in the press conference about our demographic and is it aging. And so Saturday night I went out on the boulevard with some of my closest friends. And yes, I'm telling you, it was packed. And I don't think I saw anybody over 30 and just people having fun, having a great time, and kind of looked at a couple guys, and Tim Clark and I were like, it seems like we got a pretty good young group here having some fun. So to me, Talladega just everything about the racing, and we got some work to do on the racing, don't get me wrong. But. But in terms of the atmosphere and. And what happens and the passion, if everybody in America could go experience that just one time, I think you'd be a fan for life.

[Kenny Wallace]

There is so much to unpack, and I'm going to do my very best, and I want to get. I want to get it all in here. And Talladega taught me a lot. Let's stay right there for a minute. I love my baseball Cardinals. I love my St. Louis Blues, you know, City STL, soccer. One big change that I see happening in all sports, and I see it at Talladega is you along with everybody. Societal shift. There's been a big societal shift. People want to be entertained. Going to the bathroom. I mean, they go to the bathroom and it's like they've been gone an hour. Where are they? And they're up in the midway watching the race on the screen or talking to a friend. Now, I see that happen at Busch Stadium. I see it happen at Enterprise arena, you know, for the Blues, and then, of course, Energy center for our soccer team. So with that Being said, I studied Talladega, this big new barn in the infield. Yeah, people are going to Talladega. They're going into the barn and they're watching the race on the TV from inside the racetrack. What the hell is going on here?

[Steve O'Donnell]

No, it's a different experience. Right. And people want to kind of have that shared experience, I guess. And you can go in there and, you know, there's some air conditioning. But we learned some things about, you know, TV screens everywhere, concessions that are pretty cheap, which is great. It's what people want. They just want to have a good time and be around people. So that's been really successful and it's a model for us, I think, to do at other tracks as well and take a look at it. I had the opportunity. I've never been there in my life, but first time ever, I got a chance to go to the Masters on Friday with a couple of our drivers.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh my.

[Steve O'Donnell]

And unbelievable. But what was so cool was no phones, $2 for a beer, $2 for a sandwich. You're in and out. And it was just a cool experience. That's what it's all about. It was just being part of the, being around people, watching the sport and a very cool experience. So I think we've got to do more things, you know, outside of just racing. So, you know, there may be somebody who comes to the race for the first time trying to learn, but we need to make sure they have a good time. Right. Got to make sure the restrooms are working, the concession stands are moving pretty quick so they can get back to doing what they want to do.

[Kenny Wallace]

Man. When I was a kid, Ed Bloom, he was the promoter over here at Tri City Speedway. Yeah, yeah. And, and Ed was a great promoter. And, and way back in the 70s when my dad raced, he preached nice bathrooms.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Thousand percent. That's. Yep. First thing, if you want to, if you want to get it right, you better have that going. Same thing with restaurants, right? If you go into a restaurant and someone's not taking care of that area, you got to wonder what's going on elsewhere.

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[Kenny Wallace]

all right, listen up everybody. We are, we're with the president of nascar, Steve o'.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Donnell.

[Kenny Wallace]

We are going to talk to him about the race cars, but we're talking to him about the sport right now. Okay. Talladega Weekend, I kind of did some math and okay, the Masters had no cell phones. That's wonderful. Let's get rid of cell phones. However, that's never going to happen.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. Michael Jordan was there, maybe not, you know, in full force. I know he gets to the track a little late, but it's still, you know, Jamie Little with Fox. She does her interviews with him.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

All of Michael Jordan's friends are like, damn, I didn't know he owned a NASCAR team. Now, now, you know, Charles Barkley commented on it. Now all Michael Jordan's buddies are, are watching nascar. They're engaged because of Michael Jordan. Okay, that's that. I want to put these two together. Cletus has right at 5 million followers. And like he told Jeff Gluck, he's got a big funnel. Everybody that follows Cletus is a lot, you know, drifters, rally racers, drag racers. Okay. He has almost 5 million followers on YouTube watching his videos.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Huge.

[Kenny Wallace]

Jason Kelsey was there, legendary. He'll be a hall of famer in the NFL. He was with the Philadelphia Eagles. He hands the gas can over the wall to Corey Day's team who won the O'Reilly race. Now if I add it up, it's 8 million people that most likely aren't going to watch NASCAR. In your, in your marketing brain, which you're, that's what you specialize in. What does that mean to you?

[Steve O'Donnell]

So you've, and you forgot one guy who was there, Marshawn Lynch.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Sorry about that.

[Steve O'Donnell]

No, no. So, so Marshawn, just a quick story, came to Daytona and he was asked on a podcast, you know, he could say anything in the world.

[T-Mobile Legal/Disclaimer Voice]

Right.

[Steve O'Donnell]

What's your, what's your greatest sporting event? You've ever been to outside of the NFL. And he said, the Daytona 500, they said, where do you want to go next? He's like, I'm going to turn 40, and I want to celebrate my 40th at Talladega. So he showed up on his own with his guys. He's got another huge following. Right. So all those guys bring new eyeballs, but it's got to be authentic. And so with Michael Jordan, what's great about him? Well, obviously, everything's great in terms of the basketball and championships, but. But he's a true fan. Like, he stays all race. He stays after the race, and he is there, which is great because you can have a celebrity at a race, is kind of in and out, and they ask you, you know, what do you think about nascar? And he's like, he or she? I don't really know. And it doesn't do a lot to help you, but when it's authentic, it's great. And so Marshawn lynch brought his folks there, and he's talking about doing a show or a podcast, and he's like, we got to teach people more about nascar. You know, if my guys are coming and it's the first time, you know, what. Who they root for, how's the sport work, what happens? And so they're all. All these guys are in. Once they come, they have a great time. So, you know, we need to do more of that. You know, the media landscape's changing, as you know, Right. With podcasts now, people are tuning into your show. They want to. They want to spend the time. They want to hear what your opinion is. And that's big for the sport. Gives us new avenues, for sure. Because, as you know, growing up through the sport, Kenny, we. We were undercovered, right. We weren't competing with those big Four. And a lot of the sports writers, they didn't grow up with nascar, so you had to really push for coverage. But now we got a shot with all this new media that we can be out there.

[Kenny Wallace]

One of my questions that you just said right there, but it was towards the end, podcasts, they have become this powerful tool, not just in talking or learning, but a marketing tool, because it answers a lot of questions to where, you know, when we didn't have it, you know, wonder why they do that. I can't believe they do that. Well, here I am right now with you. I'm sure you recognize the. These podcasts. They are Theo Vaughn with Ella Langley.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Huge. Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

Talk about podcasts.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah. I think what's. What's really cool about it, and I'll get myself in trouble here with all the fans. But, but typically you would do a quick interview, right? And it's three sentences. And you don't really get to get into things and be like, I like that guy or that guy's an ass, which I'm sure I'll hear it from the fans. But I think it gives people the opportunity to see personalities that come on as guests interact. And then the podcaster has an opportunity to really dive into a topic. And it's not just kind of one quote that's taken out of context. You can hear people explain, you can spend more time on a certain topic if you want to. And I, I think it's great. I mean, I spend a lot of time, you know, when I'm in the car driving or whatever, put something on, listen what's happening. And you learn a lot too. And it's, it's, it's entertaining. I mean, you put on a hell of a show.

[Kenny Wallace]

We try. We try. I love NASCAR so much that it, I do get emotional and everybody gets mean. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go where my brain tells me to go. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back and it's all gonna make sense here. I loved, I loved disco music, you know, I love the Bee Gees. And then all of a sudden, I think it was Boston day. They started smashing all the, all the records and it's like, get rid of it, you know? And then all of a sudden, rock and roll, you know, Aerosmith and AC dc you know, I think you, I think you see where I'm going with this. And all of a sudden it was cool to not like NASCAR anymore. And, and now, now here are country music's everything so much that to where Aerosmith and Sammy Hagar and all these guys have moved to Nashville. Everybody on the end knows it. Nashville has become crazy. Is there something about psychology? I mean, okay, I'm not going to blame this all on nascar. I think there was a huge societal shift. Why did we start smashing? Why did we get rid of disco? Why did everybody fall out of love with rock and roll? Am I way off base or what the hell's. What am I thinking? You know, I mean, why was it cool, like, not to like nascar? Now here we are coming back.

[Steve O'Donnell]

I think there's a couple things I think about with that, Herm. So you, you know, your, your generation of drivers, right? Coming in, Everybody knew, almost 1 through 43, knew every driver's name. And the sport was hugely popular, and the drivers, I think, had to do more outside of the race car to. To really make things happen, not only for yourself. Right. But for the team. And the money got pretty big, which was great. You know, we wanted more and more going to the drivers, to the teams, but we. We lost a little bit of that interaction with the race fans because the drivers were now asked to do so much for a sponsor. The sponsor money then all went into the race car. Right. Versus activating drivers. So that. That connection we lost a little bit. And then on NASCAR side, you know, we went from North Wilkesboro, we went from Rockingham, and we tried to grow the sport. Going to California or going to Vegas, probably a decent move, but we did not do it in the right way. Right. We just kind of left versus saying, hey, if we're going to go to the LA Coliseum, we better be at Bowman Gray and you better not alienate those fans that have been with you, you know, through the run. And so I think our fans are the most passionate in all those sports. They love the sport and it is their sport. And I think a lot of our fans felt like you took that away and you took kind of that essence of nascar. And so, you know, we won't get that back immediately, but I feel like the garage area and the industry kind of recognizes that we got a real shot here to. To win some people back. Won't be easy. You know, we've made some mistakes and we. I mean, nascar, but there's some things we can do to. To put ourselves in a position to, like, give us another chance with some of those fans because we chased some new fans at the risk of losing some of the old ones. And I think the. The new fans would really appreciate this sport if. If we kept doing some of the things that. That drove the sport, you know, as we grew. If that. If that makes sense.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. And. And I'll add to that. Respectfully. I would never tell you anything. Respectfully. Oh, you know, I. Obviously, I worked for Marcus Smith in SNI.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

I do about 10 shows a year, and we pack them in trackside live. The drivers come out. But. But I said to Marcus, and I don't think he's going to mind me saying this, I said, marcus, why did you keep building all those big mile and a half tracks? And response was very knowledgeable. He said, kenny, we couldn't fit the people in to the tracks we own, so we made the tracks bigger.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

And it sounded so simple that there were 200,000 people at 90% of the races. We got to build bigger because we got to fit people in. Was it that simple?

[Steve O'Donnell]

So think about this too, Kenny. So built all those big tracks, right? And instead of saying, all right, here's the race car and what would be the best track we could go on or if we were all going to build mile and a half, we should have said, all right, we better make sure this race car races really good on those tracks. Right. It didn't happen. Right. The racing wasn't, wasn't really great. And a lot of the tracks that were built, they put the pavement in for long term. Almost like, okay, if we're going to have pavement, I'm going to make this up right at Chicago. Better last 40 years with no thought to like, no, it may have to last five years because it'll be better for the racing. So all those things. Now when we look at any decision we make, all that stuff factors in, which is good. But it took obviously some tough lessons to learn to get that right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Man, this really is like baking a cake in a recipe. See, I didn't look at it the way you did. Okay, we went to Fontana, the racing was God awful. The cars would come by and then three seconds later another car would come by and you're right, we, we did not take that into factor. But then when the, the asphalt got super old, then the racing was okay. God, I don't want your job.

[Steve O'Donnell]

No, no. But here's what's good now though, at least. So again you'd say, well, what took you so long? Well, at least now, right, when we're repaving a track, you know, it's built in. This is better have grip as soon as possible, better have tire wear or if not, what tire can Goodyear bring to the track? So all those guys are working together. Won't always be right, but at least we're factoring all this stuff in no matter where we race. And even considerations now, you know, if we're going to add a track or a new venue, you know, we got to make sure that the mix of tracks is right. You know, you can't have too many road courses because you're in a totally change of style of driver. You can't have too many intermediates. So I think we're close in terms of the balance right now. Certainly want to see some more short tracks for sure, but we got to improve our racing on the short tracks as well.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, let, let's go back to Talladega a little bit. First of all that was my favorite part of our conversation so far. Well, you sounded like a racer. You know, I mean, you know, hey, you know, listen, back in the day, we built a car for Daytona. Talladega. We built a short track car. We built an intermediate car. So what you said made all the sense in the world. You know, we built the bigger tracks, and then the racing wasn't as good. Okay, Cletus McFarland. His real name is Garrett Mitchell. Don Perdoma is a dear friend of mine. Talk. We talk every week. He calls me and he goes, man, I know you're up on that NASCAR stuff. Tell me about this Cletus. I said, snake, look, here's the deal. You're a badass, brother. Rusty's a badass. Roger Penske, Ganassi, all you quality guys, all you wealthy guys, you know how much I love you. You guys are super smart, and I. And I really look up to you guys. However, not everybody has to be Roger Penske and Chip Ganass. And they don't have to be dead serious. I said, this Cletus is brilliant. I said, I. I spent time with him. He can. He can fly a helicopter. He could do an airplane. He's a marketing genius. I just am shocked that he's in awe. He. He's in awe to be with nascar. He doesn't need you guys. He loves nascar, but he does it in a humiliating way. I'm Cletus McFarland, and I had to explain that to Bone. Not everybody has got to be Matt Kenseth or Jeff Gordon. Not everybody's got to be buttoned up. Look at me. I'm miserable.

[Steve O'Donnell]

I think you just nailed it. You absolutely nailed it. Is. Is our sport, when it's at its best, has drivers who you feel like you could go have a beer with and have a good time, or maybe if you don't drink, right, you can just go hang out at a restaurant. And they're just people you admire and people but you. But you feel like you could sit there and they talk to you. And Cletus, man, he does that a thousand percent. He's a guy who, no matter who you are, I've seen him at the track. I've seen him in everything he does. He makes time for everybody. And the guy could do, as you said, whatever he wants, right? He's been great for nascar. He's put in all the time. During the ARCA race, his live stream had over 100,000 people tuning in. I mean, it's unbelievable, right? Just unbelievable. Unbelievable. And he, but he's great and he's authentic about it. I mean, he didn't come in and say, I'm the man, you know, put me in the Daytona 500 tomorrow because I have all these followers. I think he respected the sport and said, I want to, I want to make it, but I want to do it the right way. And I think it's pretty cool seeing his journey and what he brings to the sport and got a hell of a lot of respect for what he does outside of NASCAR as well.

[Kenny Wallace]

I would never, you know, be nervy and say, you run it all. I know everybody works under you. Where are we at right now with the people that approve Cletus? And Cletus was gracious. He said, guys, this sucks, but I gotta run some more races. Door bumper clear. They were happy, you know, they were the first to criticize, you know, Dale Jr. That all that whole bunch. Kyle Bush, he doesn't deserve to be in O'Reilly but, but he was gracious in defeat. Where do you see Cletus right now? To where he can run some O'Reilly races?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, I mean, so first off, unbelievable performance at Talladega. Right? I mean, that was, that was awesome to see. His next race will be Nashville. So I think, you know, from there he's got a shot to just keep on going. And you know, we, we want him to do well, but we also want him to, you know, you got 39 other drivers, right, that you got to keep in mind. And you know, what do they see? What do they want to be part of? And they all want him to succeed as well. But we got to make sure that, you know, we got the right qualifications out there and we can look at the next person who comes in who maybe doesn't have the social media following, right? He says, why am I not approved? And it's not fair for us just to just to say it's okay for this guy, but he's doing it the right way and I think it'll be great to see what he does at his next race.

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[Kenny Wallace]

so we're still at Talladega and it's time to go to the cup race. Man, this Carson Josevar, he is a ball of fire. I mean he, to me, you know, everybody's talking about how different he is and you know, he reminds me of, I said it reminded me of Ayrton Senna. He looks like Ayrton Senna, the Italian look, you know. And we did a Kenny conversation. But, but he's also a little bit of Frank Sinatra. I mean he's, he was gonna make you all wait until he got that deal right for his, his celebration. I think all of us were going, what the hell is he doing?

[Steve O'Donnell]

I thought he was stuck in the car. I was like, oh, we're gonna have to send like emergency vehicles out there. And I mean poor. I literally was like, ah, the poor kid, man. We're gonna have, we're gonna ruin his moment because we're gon somebody out there and get his leg stuck for maybe on it. Yeah. I was like, what's going on? And then all of a sudden, just when you thought, right, that was wild. And, and then watching him, Kenny, like Victory Lane, that guy stayed after, signed every single autograph, you know, walked into the media center and said, hey, sorry I waited but I wasn't going to miss this opportunity. And just how he handles himself, you know, I'm going to Chili's and brought the whole team to Chili's back in North Carolina and just had a little party. So it was just, it was old school. It felt like, you know, back when we were, when we really had things right. You know, I think he's bringing some of that back as well.

[Kenny Wallace]

I just want to make a statement. When you talked about the racetracks and the cars didn't put on a good show at the bigger tracks, the recipe for disaster was when the drivers started not doing commercials, not going to the restaurants. And I worked my ass off because I didn't, I didn't have enough talent, so I had to have a sponsorship, you know, I mean, I was good, don't get me wrong.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh, no, yeah, you're. But, yeah, Stacker D, everybody, right? You're out there. You hustled your ass off, man. And. But I helped the sport, too. That was huge.

[Kenny Wallace]

You can name my sponsors like you just did. Square D's, you know, Red Dog, Stacker.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Absolutely.

[Kenny Wallace]

Autozone. So that's my point. This kid gets on a jet. I think they left his pickup truck at Talladega. I think the motorhome driver said, I'm going back to pick it up. Yep, I saw that on social media. But here he takes the trophy that you all gave him and takes it into the people that are spending money with nascar. When was the last time we really. I mean, I think they're starting to get it now. I'm seeing Quapple do that with Arby's.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh, yeah. No, everybody and the sponsors are seeing. What's great, Kenny, is I think, you know, the sponsors, you wanted a certain type driver. You know, here's. Here's our messaging and here's what we do. And I think we worked with Goodyear on this, you know, Goodyear for a long time, right? Would have, you know, a lot of hesitation on a tire and putting more wear in it because you know what could happen. We don't want Kenny Wallace sailing one into turn two and a tire blows and, oh, my God, you know, we have a Goodyear issue and, you know, that hurts them selling tires, right? Retail. But what we've seen is instead of nobody thanking Goodyear anymore, you know, now that Goodyear is putting in the effort, they've always put in the effort, but really, really, really done a nice job of trying to build in where you're hearing it from the drivers and you're hearing people talk positively about them. And that's the same thing with the sponsors. I think they're letting these drivers have their personalities. You know, Zillich, when he's at Red Bull, is going to be awesome. I'm hopeful Jesse Love, right, gets a sponsor. It lets him just be him. Cool kid, you know, and that really matters in terms of sponsors letting. They're going to sell more product if they let their guys be who they are.

[Kenny Wallace]

I. It's. It's almost embarrassing for me. I. Because I don't realize I'm old now. You know, when. When you get. When you get old, you don't know it. And I was at the Chili bowl and Jesse Love was hauling ass at The Chili Bowl. And I'm like, I walked up to him, I said, jesse, my name's Kenny Wallace. I know who you are. But I said, jesse, I didn't know that you were an open wheel midget racer. I mean, he was in the Amain until he wasn't, and he got flipped. But you do see those people. I mean, I'm happy to hear you say his name. You have your pulse on those drivers, don't you?

[Steve O'Donnell]

A thousand percent. They're the future. And what's cool about them is they realize, you know, the opportunity. So when we're out on the boulevard, you know those guys Friday night, you know, you go, you see a Zillich or Jesse Love just moving around with the fans, taking it all in and saying, hey, this is part of it, right? And that's, that's what's cool part about our sport. And fans love to see that also. You're not going to see that at the Super Bowl. Right? You're not going to see, you know, guys walking around, you know, two days before the super bowl, interacting with fans and giving out some things to the fans. You know, that's, that's what's great about our sport.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. All right, everybody, we're closing in on an hour. We want to thank the new president of nascar, Steve o', Donnell, for being with us. We're at Talladega. We've talked about a lot right now, but we still got a little bit to go. You said something and social media grabbed it. Of course, I loved it. So I retweeted it everywhere. You did a press conference saying that in the past, you may have handcuffed the drivers a little bit, but now you're wanting to show that personality. And, and I understood that. We went through that time where all the drivers cussed, FCC or whoever they are, they're gonna find us. Everybody clammed up. Everybody got too perfect. Tell me about that statement you made.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, I mean, we, listen, we're the government, right? We got to have thick skin. No one likes a referee. And I get that. So anybody, you know, you want to take us on, on a bad call, that's, that's, that's okay, right? You should, but it's more just, just being yourself and, and, you know, letting drivers get out there. And if, if they're going to get into it with one another, that's fine. You know, what we've said is don't use your car as a, as a weapon, you know, under caution or something. That could, that could get somebody hurt. Keep the big guys on pit road away from drivers. If. If two guys are going to be out there, you know, we don't want these.

[Kenny Wallace]

Fight fair, damn it.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, we don't want these big. But personality is what. What people are all about. They want to know who you are. They want to know that, you know, if you came in second, you're pissed off if you tried something and it's okay to say and show some emotion. So we've learned along the way, too, and I think we're. We're trying to work with the drivers on, you know, what should the line be if there is one. Just so you know, we don't put them in a weird position going forward. But, you know, Probst and Elton. So I think Elton's got a great, great demeanor with those guys and is doing a real nice job in terms of how we want to go forward as a sport.

[Kenny Wallace]

Recently, I believe, up somewhere in Pennsylvania, maybe Port Royal, you know, they run a sprint car race. Guy dropped the F bomb twice on the loudspeaker, and they said, you're done. I don't know what's going to happen, but, you know, it caught everybody. You know, when you watch flow, which I know you all are hooked up with, Michael Riggs being flow, good friend, does a great job. We got dirt vision. Got dirt vision over there for the world of outlaws. I think that, you know, flow and dirt vision, we thought we could go over there and just let our mouth fly. And then we realized, hold on, these guys are getting 300,000 views. It's almost like mini TV now, you know?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Oh, yeah, it is TV. I mean, it's. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

So you gotta listen. Nobody cusses more than me. I'm the worst. It's Wallace tradition. But people would say, kenny, why don't you cuss on national tv? And I would say, because you can't. I could turn it off. So you still can't cuss in nascar, can you?

[Steve O'Donnell]

You know, it's a good question. I think it's happened. So. So what you. What you can do? Do we want to encourage it on a network race? No, but the days of, like, finding someone, you know, I think Dale Jr still gets ticked off, like, why did you guys find me? And I think the rul. The FCC would come after you if that now I think, is as totally relaxed. So I can't recall a time. I know some guys have said some stuff in the past, but, you know, look, we want drivers to be themselves, but, you know, we also want to make it so some kids can tune in, too. And, you know, depends on the broadcast. Depends where we're seeing it, what the circumstances are. And, but our goal or our objective is not to be fine in people for language.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. And I want to remind everybody, because when I can remind everybody, I will. It's like, it's like Rusty says, right. I made that. I made it famous. It's sad to say. You got to remind people because they remember what they want to. We were at, I believe we were at Rockingham, everybody. And maybe brother Mike's. My brother Mike's mouth was caught arguing with Shane Meal and. Or Dale Jr. Cussing at Talladega. And the FCC didn't like it. Not. Not nascar. And so, you know, was that before you or. Right.

[Steve O'Donnell]

That was. No, I was in competition. And that was one of those that, you know, if, if you, if kind of forced your hand. But, but all that stuff, I think is. Has been relaxed for the most part, which is good. So don't go crazy with it. Hermit.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Well, no, no, but, you know, what we're doing is we're breaking some things down here. Why did we get to where we get. Why did we go to so many. Mile and a half. Because we had so many people, but we forgot that the car is not going to perform. So. Okay, everybody, deep breath. Once again, we're closing in on the end here. And this one made world news, not even national news. Your. Your buddy John Probst, who works for you, and, and you tell him, go out there, see what the future is. And we all know that everybody slides everything to Adam Stern because he's quality. Everybody expects it. Everybody likes Adam Stern. Never met him in my life, but everybody likes him. So Adam Stern, in my world, that's where I see it. John Probst, he says that in 2030, we're going to be looking at electric vehicles in the O'Reilly series. So you're the boss. Tell me what's up.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, so John actually didn't say that. So I'll correct the record. Adam Stern, who I do respect, got that one wrong and then didn't talk to us. So what. What John is saying is if you look at, like, we have that electric vehicle that all three of the OEMs put together as kind of a showcase. And if I go back, we say five years ago, one of our OEMs said, if you are not hybrid within the next two years, we are out of NASCAR. Oh, okay. So we're gonna. We better start looking at that. Within a year, they Said, if you are not electric, we are out of nascar. So then we, we didn't say we're going all electric, but we said we'd put a car together. That same group then when we presented the potential for an electric series, said, well that seems really dumb. That's not nascar. That's not entertaining. We said, we, we agree. So what we did was we, we put that technology in place just to showcase that we could, depending on where the world goes, you got to be ready for, for looking at things. We looked at hybrid and so where the next piece was around the O'Reilly series. So all John was saying is that if you look at the truck series, right, we got into trucks, we ran some exhibitions. They were the best selling vehicles in the US and the world. So we said, hell, let's try these and race them. And our hardcore fans think it's the greatest thing ever, right? So that worked well. Now what's on the street number one selling vehicle is crossover vehicles. Nobody was saying that immediately we're going to put this in this series, but we are going to look at, would people, would people tune in? If you had crossovers racing, could it, could it just be an exhibition series? Because if you look at the O'Reilly series where you raced, the OEMs are not spending any money to support the race teams because it's not one Ford

[Kenny Wallace]

coming up this weekend.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Not one, right? So wouldn't you want to at least look at what series you could have where the OEMs would say, Whoa, I'll pour some money into the race teams, I'll support you guys, I'll support up and coming racers. That doesn't have to be the O'Reilly series. It could just be an exhibition, but we at least want to see. And if fans like it, great. If they don't, it'll be like the electric car where we kind of just showcase what we can do and do some things. So, you know, I think there's a place for, you know, if we were going to race some electric cars around colleges or something that they wanted to see or if we wanted to do some hybrid things, but you know, we're not going to lose the essence of the series and just flip a switch and say, all right, this is new. We'll make sure that the fans, you know, have showcased that they believe in this and they want to go see it and they want to support it.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm old enough now to not, you know, ask you for a finite final answer. I won't do that because I I think that's dumb. I recently went to Europe and, you know, I was over there accidentally with some high end people, billionaires, and I just said, I'm gonna ask them. And I said, does the European government or people in UK or Germany, all over there in that land, do they force these automakers to go hybrid? And he looked at me, goes, oh, absolutely not. He said, kenny, you got to remember, Mercedes owns the Formula one team, you know, I mean, basically, right? Ferrari, you know, you know, Steve, I forgot that in Formula one, these are actually like, like Chevrolet owning a team, thousand percent. So they want to push that hybrid that is in F1 right now that everybody dislikes. They're going through some growing pains. They got, they got the engine, the combustion engine. Then they got a couple, I call them alternators, and they charge that battery and it goes 50 battery. And it's. They're the, you know, they're doing some tweaking on it. Are you watching that play out over there every minute?

[Steve O'Donnell]

And, and you look at what's the essence of Formula one, Herm. It's the car at top speed and the drivers at top speed, right? And they're taking some of that away, which is the essence of the sport. You know, what do our fans say? We want more horsepower, we want more noise. Right? And so we need to chase that in a smart way, not go away from that. And so you've seen the OEMs now say, you know, the idea that a V8 was just going to go away. Now it's okay because you got some alternative fuels and you can do some things. So I'd rather chase that. I'd rather chase, you know, how can we get to more horsepower? Do it in a smart way where we don't cost the team owners a gazillion dollars and the engine builders, but if we can do that in a smart way, absolutely want to continue to deliver what NASCAR is all about.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, it's kind of like being the little brother and watching big brother Rusty, and he taught me how to get around Martinsville. I think it's smart that you got your eyes on Formula one because, you know, they're, they're making some tweaks. But Nigel Mansell, one of the greats, you know, he's doing TV and, and they're like, this is a disaster. I mean, so much to where Max Verstappen says, I'm quitting.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Hey, we're hoping Max will come over and marry. We'll have some fun, and let's get after it. So that would be great.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, so we're coming to the end here, everybody. We are with NASCAR president Steve o', Donnell, and we're talking about the ever, ever big announcement last week. Steve, I still have some more stuff to ask, but I want to thank you. I think that was a very big moment, you straightening out the. The ev. Situation. Basically, you're just saying that, look, we're ready at all times and if we need to do something. But we're not saying we're going all in right yet.

[Steve O'Donnell]

No, we're. I. I don't see a day of. Of at least today that. That anyone's knocking down our doors from the oem saying we need an electric series at the national series level. You could certainly see some type of series maybe if it had some backing from OEMs. And, you know, ABB has been a great partner of ours. I think they want to do some things around colleges. Sure, we'd look at that. But, you know, I think we. We're happy with where we are right now.

[Kenny Wallace]

I love that. Expect Mike Charlie to edit that up and have that out tonight by nine.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Fantastic.

[Kenny Wallace]

And way I. I do help Saint Louis University give them a little money. Those kids are down there making. They make everything themselves. It's a battery.

[Steve O'Donnell]

That's where we need to be. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And they race each other.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

So I understand totally what you're talking about. Got to get this in there. Dale Jr. Is a friend of mine, very close, and. And, you know, he's the one that called me and said, would you do Herman Schrader? Would you share your Kenny conversation? So I'm just kind of letting you know that, you know, Junior and myself, we do work together with Mike Davis.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

So.

[Kenny Wallace]

So Junior is like, listen, basically, what wins on Sunday don't sell on Monday because everything's SUVs. And somebody said to me, since a fan said, kenny, since what wins on Sundays doesn't, you know, sell on Monday, I said, listen, it's simple. It's car against car. And then Junior come in with, like, a love letter. It shocked me. Oh, he was so brilliant, so smart, what Dale Jr said. So it would just seem to me that it would just be competition for pride. Shouldn't it be Ford against Chevy, Toyota, you know, Ram? I mean, shouldn't we just be happy to fly the. You know, I want each fan to love their automaker.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yeah, no, that. Listen, if we can get more of that, you know, we need more OEM partners and. And guys associating with the brands and then you know, showing them when we're at our peak. It's. It's. The OEMs are talking about their drivers on national TV. They're. They're seeing them at dealerships. You know, that. That's been. That's been missing. It's coming back. You're seeing some of those guys use our drivers now in ad campaigns. So. But we got to make sure that, you know, the people writing the checks in Detroit or in Texas, you know, say, hey, we're selling some vehicles because of nascar, and our fans are the most passionate. They're going to go buy those vehicles. So we got to make sure that what we're racing matches up, in some case with what they're selling in the future. And, you know, it's changing so rapidly. You know, you can't do it overnight. So we just want to. We want to be in step with them in a way, but also make sure that it works with the team owners and what they want to see out there.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I want to put an exclamation on this. Formula one. Okay, you cannot go buy a Formula one car.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Nope.

[Kenny Wallace]

So. So my biggest, you know, debate with that is like, listen, everybody, it's working over there. And they. They. They go buy a Mercedes Benz. They got tractor trailers. So to me, it was always, you know, it. I got it. You know what wins on the brand?

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep. If you get the brand out there. Yep. Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

The end. Thank you.

[Steve O'Donnell]

That's it.

[Kenny Wallace]

You. You just button it all up for me. That's very good. All right, my friend, once again, congratulations. You are the president of nascar. I appreciate you taking time out to be on Kenny Conversation. And listen up, everybody. There he is. There's two ways to watch Kenny Conversation with NASCAR President Steve ODonnell. You can go on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show and see him. And then if you're on your way to the next NASCAR race, you can go over to Dale Eart Jr's Dirty Mo Media podcast and you can listen to Steve ODonnell. Is that it?

[Steve O'Donnell]

My friend Herm, I would be remiss if I didn't say, listen, man, there are a lot of things you could be doing in life right still, and I know you still race, which is awesome, but the time that you still take, the passion that you still have for this sport, you're at the racetrack, you're moving around. I appreciate it because you stayed all in, man. You've always been all in, and you are a guy who makes it fun. So keep doing that and don't be afraid to call me and tell me where I'm screwing up, which I know you will now.

[Kenny Wallace]

Now it's sorry for. Sorry for saying my friends, so much. You know, Tony Stewart does that all the time. He always says. Him and Shrader, they say sorry.

[Steve O'Donnell]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

My friend. It's just by habit what we do, man. Yeah, I guess I'm a lover. Okay, everybody, until the next Kenny Conversation. Goodbye, everybody. Check out dirty mo media on twitter, facebook, TikTok and instag.