Terry Phillips: Missouri Racing Royalty

Summary

Herm & Schrader Podcast: “Terry Phillips: Missouri Racing Royalty”

Release Date: July 2, 2026
Hosts: Kenny Wallace & Ken Schrader
Guest: Terry Phillips

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Episode Overview

This episode is a heartfelt and hilarious deep-dive into Missouri dirt racing heritage, with Kenny Wallace sitting down for a long, winding, and candid conversation with his childhood friend Terry Phillips—one of dirt racing’s all-time greats. Together, they reflect on growing up as “disciples” of Larry Phillips (Terry’s father, legendary short tracker and newly-minted NASCAR Hall of Famer) and Rusty Wallace (Kenny’s brother), the pain and pride of being raised by tough, demanding racing fathers, and the realities of making it in the dirt racing world. The discussion is loaded with stories—some funny, some tender, some tough—about family, legacy, racing’s changing landscape, and life’s biggest lessons.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Growing Up Racing: Sons of Giants

• Early Days — Disciples of Legends
  • Kenny and Terry share memories of their youth, growing up in the shadow of Larry Phillips and Rusty Wallace, icons of Midwest racing.
  • Both recall the harsh, no-nonsense environment—“they were mean. God, they were mean.” (KW, 04:14)
  • Terry on Larry:
    • It was “tough” growing up the son of Larry Phillips—focused on nothing but racing, with little patience for other interests (05:06).
    • Larry’s relentless drive, work ethic, and toughness are cited as both blessing and burden.
    • “Didn’t see it as a kid, but it was tough...I don’t think I’d have it any other way now that I’m almost 60.” (TP, 07:26)
  • Kenny notes how Rusty was “mean, too,” and their own sibling dynamic.

2. Family Nicknames & Legacy

• “Terry Jean” and Family Ties
  • Stories behind Terry’s nickname, “Terry Jean”—an identity he’s carried since youth.
  • Kenny reflects on how some names stick, laughing about his daughter "Brandi Lee" and the country naming tradition (09:34).

3. Celebrating Terry's Stellar Career

• Incredible Racing Stats (13:26–14:41)
  • Kenny reads off Terry’s staggering accomplishments:
    • 116 Lucas Oil MLRA wins, 94 MARS wins, 40 USMTS wins
    • Multiple series championships, and National Dirt Late Model Hall of Famer.
  • Terry credits much of his drive to his upbringing, deflecting modestly: “It kind of sounds like...we’re getting old!” (14:41)
  • Quote:
    • “You get old enough, then you get to looking back, damn, I was pretty good.” (TP, 14:41)
    • Dick Trickle stories, and how legends like Trickle and Waltrip personally respected Larry.

4. The Sponsorship Game: From Broke to Backed

• Terry details the early days of hustling for sponsorship—Kenny Wallace was his first-ever sponsor (19:31).
  • “You was the first actual sponsor that I ever had my own. So I appreciate that. That...helped out a lot at the time.” (TP, 21:23)
• Relationship with Andy’s Frozen Custard—over 21 years together, real pride in long-term friends and sponsors.

5. On Dirt Racing Culture & “Teammates”

• Kenny asks about two-car “team” operations in the Ozarks (23:31).
  • Terry says shared-shop teammate arrangements are rare in their region; most go it alone, due to cost or logistics.

6. Larry Phillips: Finally, a NASCAR Hall of Famer

• The Call Everyone Waited For
  • After decades of frustration, Larry Phillips is finally inducted as a DRIVER, not just a pioneer (25:33–28:30).
  • Terry’s phone “blew up” when the announcement hit, and Rusty Wallace personally called to confirm.
  • “If Larry Phillips is not a NASCAR driver, who the hell is?” (TP, 28:20)
  • Emotion and exhaustion after so many years of campaigning for his father’s recognition.

7. The Springfield Golden Era

• Kenny and Terry reminisce about the Ozark “hub” of racing greatness, listing the local tracks and legends—Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace, Larry Phillips, the Allisons, Donnie and Bobby (31:28).
  • Generational Change:
    • Racing used to be building cars by hand, now it’s about “clicking away” and tech.
    • Terry appreciates having “seen the real old school” era.

8. Technology, Teams, and Late Model Headaches

• Transition in Racing Tech (36:37–44:59)
  • Terry describes the challenge of adapting to modern late model technology—computers, shocks, and setups—and struggling after being brought up “old school.”
  • A storyline unfolds: frustrating years in late models, a surprise return via a borrowed car, a lucky helmet, and rediscovering speed and fun, illustrating that “the car matters.”
  • “If you drive a bad car long enough, it will destroy you.” (KW, 47:57)

9. Financial Realities of Modern Dirt Racing

• Can You Still Make a Living? (49:58–55:53)
  • The economics have shifted drastically:
    • Larry Phillips’ biggest win: $10,000. Today’s purses rise, but expenses do too; only “maybe 15” late model drivers truly make a living.
    • Most racers scrape by unless backed by “sugar daddies” (KW, 54:20) or business sponsors.
    • Strong gratitude for genuine sponsorship—Andy’s Custard now a national name thanks in part to their program.

10. Family, Wisdom, and Perspective

• On Grandkids, Aging, & Life Lessons
  • Terry happily reports four grandkids, enjoying family life, and notes his daughter handles his Facebook presence (57:49).
  • Shares advice borrowed from his famously gruff father:
    • “I don’t know whether to buy you a new motor or a damn stage for your comedy act!” (Larry Phillips, 59:33)
  • Kenny tells stories of how Larry was an influence—sometimes gruff, sometimes deeply kind.

11. On Having Fun, Letting Go & Enjoying the Ride

• Both men reflect on learning late in life to value having fun, not just grinding for results.
  • “Have a little fun because you don’t care.” (TP, 65:46)
  • “You gotta enjoy what you’re doing is what I’ve learned...I know I’m getting to the end...I just want to have some fun.” (TP, 64:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They were mean. God, they were mean. I remember your dad.”

  • Kenny Wallace on Larry Phillips and Rusty Wallace (04:14)

• “I'm not going to sugarcoat...It was tough. I mean, he was 100% about racing, nothing else. But looking back, I'm sure it kept me out of a lot of trouble.”

  • Terry Phillips on being Larry’s son (05:06)

• “You was the first actual sponsor that I ever had my own. So I appreciate that...it helped a lot at the time.”

  • Terry Phillips to Kenny Wallace (21:23)

• “If Larry Phillips is not a NASCAR driver, who the hell is? I mean, this guy, five-time national champion...his whole life was racing.”

  • Terry Phillips on Larry’s Hall of Fame wait (28:20)

• “You get old enough, then you get to looking back, damn, I was pretty good.”

  • Terry Phillips (14:41)

• “If you drive a bad car long enough, it will destroy you, ruin you.”

  • Kenny Wallace (47:57)

• “Gotta have help. You...make money on TV, but that's not very many people.”

  • Terry Phillips on the economics of dirt racing (53:08)

• “We live life backwards, don't we? Where the hell was this when I was young?”

  • Kenny Wallace on aging and wisdom (56:44)

• “Have a little fun because you don’t care.”

  • Terry Phillips on racing mindset (65:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:00–05:06] – Childhood stories: racing legacies and tough love from racing fathers.
• [10:36–14:41] – Celebrating Terry’s stats and racing accomplishments.
• [19:31–22:05] – Sponsorship history; Andy’s Frozen Custard story.
• [25:33–29:46] – Larry Phillips finally makes the NASCAR Hall of Fame.
• [31:28–34:20] – Springfield’s racing golden age and building cars the “old school” way.
• [36:37–44:59] – Modern racing tech, late models, returning to victory after struggle.
• [49:58–55:53] – Comparison of racing economics: then vs. now.
• [57:49–59:33] – Family updates; the joy (and jokes) about grandkids.
• [64:56–65:46] – Importance of fun and shifting perspective with age.

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Summary Tone

Authentic, irreverent, and full of Midwestern “racer’s wisdom” and ribbing, the episode brings both laughter and real emotion. It’s at once a history lesson, therapy session, and a blueprint for surviving—and thriving—in the tough world of grassroots motorsports.

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For Listeners

Whether you grew up idolizing dirt trackers or you just love an honest conversation between legends of the sport, this episode is full of history, life lessons, and warmth. Kenny and Terry’s chemistry and storytelling make it a must-listen for any fan of racing, family, or good stories.

Transcript

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation. Brought to you by i55 Federated Auto Parts Raceway park right here in Peverey, Missouri. Dirt racing every Saturday night. You're looking at him everybody. Man, he has done so much in the world of dirt racing and my childhood friend, the great Terry Phillips. Terry, how you doing?

[Terry Phillips]

I'm doing good. Good to see you this morning.

[Kenny Wallace]

Do you have coffee? You know I have my coffee mug.

[Terry Phillips]

You know I've seen little parts of coffee with Kenny. I didn't know if that's what we were doing, but I thought I'd have one with you anyway.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, man, I love you so much. Listen, everybody, this is a disclaimer. When people found out about three years ago, they were kind of shocked. Terry Phillips and myself, we grew up as disciples of the great Larry Phillips and Rusty Wallace. So we were. We were riding in those race trucks to Pacola, Oklahoma, or Fort Smith, whatever you want to call it. Try. Try State Speedway. And Terry, do you remember those days?

[Terry Phillips]

I do. I do. We had. It was a lot of fun back then, you know, and. Well, when Rusty Wallace and Larry Phillips wasn't around, we had a lot of fun.

[Kenny Wallace]

My gosh. And that is a subject, you know. God, that is a loaded. Let's just start right there. I think that's a good one. We're going to celebrate your career. I'm going to remind everybody everything that you've accomplished. We are going to get to you, Terry. But you and I grew up in that environment. We grew up with your father, the great Larry Phillips, who just got inducted or is getting inducted into the NASCAR hall of Fame. Your father was great. My brother, Rusty Wallace, or as my fans tease me, my brother Rusty. Rusty is great. So you and I grew up with these bigger than life characters, but they were mean. They were mean. God, they were mean. I remember your dad.

[Terry Phillips]

I'm glad you said it first. You know,

[Kenny Wallace]

I. I'm just explaining to everybody and laying the groundwork. And then I want you to talk. I remember being downtown Springfield and your dad working his butt off and he looked at you and he said, terry Jean, go get me a stick of tubing down there at Seaburg's. I gotta finish this man's race car. What. What was it like growing up the son of Larry Phillips?

[Terry Phillips]

Well, it was tough. I mean, I'm not. I'm not going to sugarcoat. It's not, you know, it's not a popular thing to talk bad about him. I'm not talking bad about him, but as a. Let's just start with very deserving to go into hall of Fame. In my mind, probably the greatest driver it's ever been. Just surprised it hasn't happened already. I just thought because he was so ornery, you know, And Rusty told me, no, I don't care how, you know, how ornery was or whatever, but I think they're just getting to know him, really, you know, how many races he won, all that. But it was tough, you know, I mean, I started our relationship wasn't a. You know, I was Playing baseball and stuff. I was really into baseball and, you know, but I started seventh, eighth grade, junior high, walking to the shop, started, started working, seventh, eighth grade, you know, and. And, you know, the coach came to pick me up one day. He ain't got time for that. We're racing here. You just need to go on. I mean, I was devastated, you know, heartbroke, but kind of get it now. I wasn't going to make a career out of playing baseball, that's for sure, you know, so. Didn't see that as a kid, but it was tough. I mean, he. He was 100% about racing. Nothing else, you know, for us, playing with kids or going to their game, you know, anything like that. But looking back, you know, where I was, I was raised. He wasn't around a lot when I was young, but the people that I grew up around, most of them are no longer with us, you know, in jail, just things like that. A lot of people don't know that, but looking back, I'm. I'm sure it kept me out of a lot of trouble, let's just put it that way, you know. But then, you know, as far as, you know, a little bit later, I just thought it was a job. And then, man, I really started getting into it, and then. Then I was just crazy about racing. Then, of course, you know, 14 or so, I'm ready to race, but that wasn't going to happen, you know, so. Yeah, he used to tell me, he goes, you ain't going to start too young like a lot of these kids and develop bad habits and, you know, it's going to take forever to break them and all that. And then as I got older, I think he just wanted me to work on his car, not mine, is what I'm pretty sure is what it was, but. But it was tough. I'm not gonna lie about it. I mean, the old guys around here, they know, you know, they know. But I don't think I'd have it any other way now that I'm almost 60 years old and. And had a pretty successful career, you know, so it laid the groundwork, that's for sure.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. So I know you're a tough guy, but I want you to know I love you. I hate it that we didn't really grow up, you know, for so many years together, because, you know, I. I went asphalt, you know, I went nascar, and. And you became one of the greatest dirt racers of all time. You know, my. My big brother, Rusty was mean, too. And when Rusty and myself would get into it, he'd look at me and he'd say, damn it, I'm trying to give you suggestive criticism. And I'm like, damn, what a way to put it. But. But, you know, I just want to let you know that, you know, when I look back at your father and. And I told you this a year ago at Springfield at the Turkey Bowl, I said, you know, Terry, I gotta stop for a minute. I always want to call you Terry Jean, because I just like that it's so country. It sounds like that's what everybody called

[Terry Phillips]

me for a long time. It sounds weird now, you know, because everybody calls me TP But Scott Kaiser and some of the older guys that's been around with Terry Jane and, you know, know when somebody else calls me that, it's like, why are you calling me that? But anyway, yeah, that. That was my name for a long time.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, because your dad would holler out, you know, Terry Jean. You know, I got. I got a middle daughter. Her name is Brandi Lee, and it just rhymes. It just Brandi Lee, you know, and. Yeah, so I'm glad you added to that just now. So now it's T.P. and I don't know you as T.P. you know, I know you as growing up together, watching, you know, your dad, Larry and Rusty. But. Okay, so we're talking to Terry Phillips, everybody, one of the greatest dirt racers of all time. And we're gonna go through some stats right now. And I. I'm in shock when I look at these, just because, you know, I've. I've been doing my deal. You've been doing your deal, and I know how good you are. But we're going to celebrate the man that you're looking at right now, Terry Phillips. So, Terry Phillips, national Dirt Late Model hall of Famer. Well, when they called you up for that, what'd you think?

[Terry Phillips]

Thought it was pretty cool. You know, I. They kept saying something about, you know, first father, son in it and that. But I think the Kaziskis, which helped me get in it, they didn't realize that I wasn't in it. They told me, you know, and. And help. Help me get into it. But the only problem was, it was during the pandemic, so we didn't go, you know, and then the next year, they had two of them, so I got in 2020. So it was a unique situation, but I ended up going to Florence and going to it and raced. I hadn't raced late models in quite a while and made the show and all that. You know, but, but that was, that was a really neat deal. I didn't think much about it. Like I said, a little watered down. Larry Phillips.

[Kenny Wallace]

We.

[Terry Phillips]

And I'm still that way. It's just, it's just bread in. Tell me about what, what are we doing next weekend? I mean, we're worried about the next race and then like, the stats and all, I have no idea. And people ask me, these kids, how many races you want? I'm like, I have no idea. You know, I hear things every once in a while, but, but, you know, had a pretty successful. You know, I, I put a couple kids through college and, and attorneys and things like that. So I guess it's a successful career, I suppose.

[Kenny Wallace]

You have a beautiful family. Actually, I was running dirt about two years ago, old Number one Speedway, and one of your daughters showed up and I thought, man, she's too pretty to be the daughter of you, but she was wonderful. She was wonderful. And it made me happy to see her because, you know, I haven't been able to really see any of your kids. I see them from afar, maybe in some pictures, but. Okay, there's a method to my madness. Everybody. The man you're looking at right now, Terry Phillips, is in the National Dirt Late Model hall of Fame because of this. Now, get. You're gonna have to give me a little time. Everybody. Brother Rusty Wallace says, herman, it's sad to say, but you got to remind people because people remember what they want to. So here we go. Terry Phillips, 116 career Lucas Oil MLRA series victories. That's pretty insane. Now this next one, I got a story for. I was watching Fairberry last year, and, you know, Mars is running Fairberry, and they're like, oh, Shannon Babb has won 30, you know, Mars races. That's, that's, that's leading. That's, that's number one. They come back like five minutes later and they said, excuse us, we are very wrong on that. The leader in Mars racing is not Shannon Babbitt, 35 wins. It's actually Terry Phillips at 94. So 94 career Mars Racing Series victories. That's insane. 40 career. Now, this is in the mods, as you would say, terry old model, 40 career USMTS series victories. Six time Mars Racing Series champion, four time MLRA series champion. And of course, as we just said, National Dirt Late Model hall of Fame. And, and Terry, it rolls off. I mean, you know, it is. Your, your sheet rolls off. It's like I told Kyle Larson, I said, kyle, your, your success rolls off. The sheet. Now, when. When I say all that to you, what's that. What's that make you feel like? What's. What goes through your brain when I tell you how great you are?

[Terry Phillips]

Well, it's humbling, I guess. I don't. I don't. I don't know. To be honest. I'm. I'm not a stats kind of person or. Or anything like that, but. What. It kind of sounds like Kenny's. We're getting old. That's right. And what. It sounds like, you know, been doing it a long time, but. But it does sound kind of cool. You get old enough, then you get to looking back, you know. Damn, I was pretty good. You know, I talked Dick Trickle a few times, and, you know, I seen him at the Prelude at Eldora, and he said, your dad, I'm telling your dad was one of the best. He said, you know, there's. There's. I think he said four guys in my book, and I can't. Can't remember exactly what he said. He goes, you know, that's probably the best driver it's ever been. He goes, me, you know, I'm. You know, I'm number one.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Confidence.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. He goes, your dad, Richie Evans, I think, said Tom Rafner or somebody like that. You know, I'm like, well, yeah, I love hearing that. You know, I've been to a couple cup races, not very many. I went, hung out with James Inc. That used to work for us here, you know, when he was a crew chief. And Schrader got a hold of me, and we started going through the garage and I met Michael Waltrip and. And I think Richard Petty and guys, and there. He introduced me. And, you know, Schrader, we're good buddies, you know, And. And he goes, this Terry Phillips, and they all look. And they go, is this Larry's boy? And then kind of hit me, you know, it's like, they know him. You know, I mean, they really know him. And. And of course, Schrader, he's like, now, hang on, this man now, Terry Jean. Now, he. He. He's his own racer. He wins a lot of. I'm like, kenny, it's okay. You know, he's taking up for me. He don't want to just. People know me as Larry's son, you know, And. And. But I had a quick story. I met Michael, and he's, like, asking me these questions, and I'm. I'm just looking at him, and. And I'm like, now what. What's Your name, of course. He's full of it, you know, And I'm, yeah, a little bit like that. Yeah, I'm like, what's your name again? Well, Michael Walter. And I go, didn't you win some race here while back or something? He just won the Daytona 500. Was shortly after that. Well, by God, my name is Michael Walter. I'm on the Daytona 500, you know, and I just looked at him. Grand. You're, you're messing with me, you know, or a few choice words. But, but it was really neat to see people that, I mean, you just, you just, you know, you don't, you don't really realize that we're just stuck, stuck in this shop working. You were just kind of that blue collar type, you know, with a lot of, a lot of good sponsors, good partners in, in my deal, you know, and you just kind of do your thing and, and then you hear it and they, you know, they recognize him and all that. And it's. Especially the older I get, it's just, it's just damn cool.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you bring up a good point. We do get stuck in the shop, you know, working on these race cars and you come up for air every once in a while and it's not very seldom because racers are hard on themselves. We never think we're good enough. We, we're always trying to make money and it's, it's a hard way to make money because you can be as good as you want to be, but you gotta have sponsors.

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[Kenny Wallace]

Man, I'll tell you what, in my desk drawer here, this is really cool. Actually, it was Michael Waltrip that gave me these. Check this out. Andy's Frozen Custards. And you know, when I see that logo, everybody, I think of the man you're looking at. I think of Terry Phillips when I see Andy's frozen custard. This is the gem of a frozen custard stand in the Ozarks. But they're up here and they're a lot of places now. I mean, you can, you can win in all the races you want to win. Terry. But we got a sponsorship, don't we, buddy?

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, we do. We sure do. And I'm, you know, I've been real fortunate. Speaking of Andy's, I was thinking. I think we've been. You put them on the map 1 years, 21 years, you know, and Don Babb, a fella here, that CEO of hospitals and stuff, he was with me maybe a couple more years than that, you know, back in the day. I. And I've got a, you know, several other ones that's been with me a long time, I guess. You know, where a lot of dirt racers go. Through them. I try not to use them up. We become friends, you know, that kind of thing. And, you know, you. You keep them, you know, fortunately, got to keep them. But, you know, I went for a long time broke and in begging people and, and, and working on their car. Yeah, if you get my car going, I'll sponsor you. You know, all them stories that never pan out and, and then one day, unfortunately, I was at a funeral of Tony Ropers, and we went, we went. He was there and I was leaving. Pulled out my, My little Nissan beater truck and started pulling out of the parking lot like my Mariner. So, boy was running down through there, running across the parking lot, stopping me, and this guy named Herman Wallace stopped me and said, I'm gonna sponsor you. So Kenny Wallace, you. You was my very first sponsor. I had sportsman pickup covers and some of my dad's sponsors on, on my car, you know, kind of come along with it, I suppose. And. But you was the first actual sponsor that I ever had my own. So I appreciate that. That kind of, that, that helped. Helped out a lot at the time. I mean, you don't even understand how much that helped. So. But anyway, I got these other, you know, some other ones that I've had for a long time, and it, you know, these kids, they win races and they can rattle off. I think they. I'm not sure. I'm sure that some of them work on the cars, but I think they just think about what they're going to say, but I'm not very good at that. I've had them for years, and I can't ever remember everybody, you know, but they know who they are and how much they help me and, and much appreciated and needed for sure, you know, so to keep. Keep us going up and down the road and going in circles, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. And it's. Terry, it's hard to be perfect. It's hard to make everybody happy. And it is a Tough discipline. I call it a discipline. So, you know, I know you and you know me, and, you know, people confuse me with being silly and happy. A lot of people from afar. Afar think I'm silly. I'm like, no, I'm happy. Don't confuse the two. And. And I know that you and I are a product of how we were raised. With that being said. You said something a while back here about five minutes ago made me think.

[Commercial Announcer]

You.

[Kenny Wallace]

You said, Dick Trickle, said Tom Refner. Well, because that. I want to ask you this question, and I know why Dick said that. Dick Trickle and Tom Ruffner, they started, like, as kids together, and when they were trying to make a living, they both said, okay, we're gonna build these race cars, Tom. You run this one, I'll run this one, and we'll make a living. Short. End of the story. In your time, it could be you. It could be you, Terry Phillips, or your dad, Larry, who. Around the Springfield area, it don't even got to be in your time. Do you ever remember seeing two guys race kind of together and the cars in the same shop or just, you know, sharing the money? Is there anybody like that in. In the Ozark region?

[Terry Phillips]

No, not really. I. I know my dad had people drive for him through the years. You know, Brumley.

[Kenny Wallace]

Terry Brumley?

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, Brumley. Bill Jones. I had a boy named Jeremy Payne from Arizona drive for me for two or three years. You know, I've had Ryan Gustin drive my stuff, you know, different things at the time, but not a solid, you know, teammate or whatever. But, yeah, that's hard. It's really hard to do with one car keeping up with it and financially and then. And then having to. It's real tough, you know, but, say, back in my dad's day, it was probably tough because the money wasn't there, but it was a hell of a lot cheaper than it is now, you know, so. So it's. It's pretty uncommon to see that, you

[Kenny Wallace]

know, we have a lot to get through. Everybody, you're looking at the great Terry Phillips. The reason I say he's great is because he is. I read his. Read his stats. National dirt Late model Hall of Famer Terry Phillips. Let's take a twist. Now we have to celebrate your father. Listen, I've celebrated my brother. You and I are not where we're at without your dad or my brother or even my dad, Russ Wallace. And. And it did take too long, and I was exhausted. I. I couldn't do anymore. Mark Martin couldn't do anymore. We screamed Larry Phillips. Larry Phillips in the NASCAR hall of Fame. And we. And I gave up 14 years later. So a couple weeks ago, we learned that your dad is now in the NASCAR hall of Fame. How did you hear about it? Who called you? Tell me the process.

[Terry Phillips]

Well, I got a. A picture of them putting him in from. Actually Brandon Willard, The. The family that owns i44 Speedway. He sent me a. In a. And I text him back. I said, is this real? Because we've been, you know, teased for years, you know, and. Yeah, you know, people thought he got put in when they put him in that top 75 greatest drivers of all time, you know, which was cool.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Terry Phillips]

But it's. He still wasn't in. And. And then all of a sudden, my phone just blew up. I mean, at the end of the day, I had to shut it off. And then people are calling me and listen to NASCAR deal it, you know, I don't, to be honest, but we don't even listen to radio down there. We're, you know, part of that old school is, you know, that's a distraction. But. But not really. Just. I just don't. I don't listen or keep up with a lot. Can I.

[Kenny Wallace]

Can I say something? I gotta interrupt you. You remind me of that song, Barbara Mandrell. I was country when country wasn't cool. Terry Jean, you are country, buddy, and I love it. And don't you ever change. Okay, so go ahead.

[Terry Phillips]

Well, I've been told that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, buddy, you are. You are. But that's awesome. But keep going. Okay, so you finally learn it's real. You're. You. You're. You don't even listen to radio, but go ahead. Sorry.

[Terry Phillips]

So, yeah, we're just. It's. My phone starts blowing up and I'm like, well, this is happening. I've drove down the road. I. I drive the tow rig 10 hours home straight all the time, just. Man, a boy that. That works for me. And, And. And young guys, they, like, sleep, you know, so I'm up there, but I think about a lot. What would I say? That kind of thing. And, you know, I mean, I'll be. Well, I'm jumping around myself, but who called you?

[Kenny Wallace]

How'd you. How'd you find out about your dad being in the hall of Fame?

[Terry Phillips]

Well, I seen that. And people calling gradually, I guess, come over the phones, you know, and then them. Rusty called me and I'm like, man, this God real.

[Kenny Wallace]

I call Russ, you know.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, God called you.

[Commercial Announcer]

I haven't.

[Terry Phillips]

I Saw him when he came and introduced my dad at the Ozark Area hall of Fame years ago. Yeah, I mean, he died in 04, so it was, you know, 02. 03. Was sick, probably. 03. I can't remember. But I, I never really talked to Rusty, but, you know, we. We were around each other a lot when I was a kid, and, and he called. I knew, I knew this deal serious. He was wound up and. Tell me about it. And, And I'm like, now, now, see, this is cool. And I've talked to Schrader about it. I, I'll be, I'll be honest. I was, you know, like you said, exhausted. It's like, it's, it's. Then I was aggravated with NASCAR kind of in my mind driving up down those roads. I'm like, man, if they put him in as a pioneer, may not even go, you know, it's just like, if Larry Phillips is not a NASCAR driver, who the hell is? I mean, this guy, five time national champion, you know, seven or eight region, you know, his whole life was racing, and then. And that was just really a small part of his career, you know, I mean, his dirt racing probably won more than he did in on pavement, but he could do either one pretty damn good, you know, so. But then Rusty's like, by the way, he must talk to Schrader, because I've talked to Schrader about this a little bit, but he goes, by the way, LP got put in as a driver. I know he's a pioneer, but he's going in as a driver, damn it. You know, and he wanted me to completely understand that. So I've got a little better attitude about it, let's put it that way. So it's just been disappointing for a long time, you know, and, and, but finally he's in. I've accepted that. And, and it's. It's cool.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. I want to share something with you that Kelly Earnhardt said to me. We are good friends. I don't know why, really, but we just get along really good, earn hearts in myself, and I want to share this with you. And this is my message to you, too. And I think it would be Rusty's message to you. Kelly said to me, she said, herman, I love you because you're a no maintenance friend. I thought, man, that is awesome. You know, we don't need friends that got to call us all the time. And, you know, hey, look at me. I'm your friend. And so, you know, we all, you know, Rusty, we don't talk that much because he's doing his deal, I'm doing my deal. But you know, Terry, if you ever called me and said, you know, I need this or that, oh my God, I'm there. I mean, hell, I'm there. And, and that's what Kelly said to me. And I, I think that's why Rusty was so excited towards you. I think that's what I'm trying to get to. You know, Rusty probably hasn't talked to you in 20 damn years, or like you said back in. Oh, whatever. But by God, we all grew up together, you know, running Ozark Empire Fairgrounds right there in Springfield with, you know, Mark Martin and Larry Phillips and Rusty Wallace. I mean, just speak to that right there. I mean, that group that you and I grew up around. Stop and think about that. You and I grew up with three NASCAR hall of famers at our local tracks. Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Larry Phelps. Holy crap.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, I remember, you know, that they bring the Allison's in to try to beat my dad, you know, Donnie and Bobby. And I got to know Bobby a little bit, you know, Bretman's and trickles and I mean, it was, it was. We didn't know it at the time, but that was the hub, you know, I mean, there was a lot of great racers there at one time. And you know, people compare now to then I'm like, well, there's. You can't compare. You know, things have changed so much. But. Well, I mean, did he race again? Because, you know, today's racing's tough. Everybody can buy it. These kids are good. Collect away. Yeah. Bolted on, click away and talk to all of their buddies, you know, and I did this and I did that. It's tough as a 59, almost 60 year, I'm racing with these kids, you know, and, and, but back then, man, them guys went to the junkyard and fixed things, made things, you know, and, and I had a buddy of mine tell me, you know, you was raised in the right era. I go, was it then? I look back now, I'm like, I gotta. You know, Manu, we were. I mean, we got to see the, the real old school, you know, a car off a lot or a junk, you know, and make into a race car to bolting things on and things just get progressing being, you know, easier but a lot faster, you know, where everybody's fast, you know. But I guess I'm right in that stage in the dirt race in any way of, of, of, you know, I had a head start. I felt when I was winning all those MLRA mars races, I was ahead of the game. I mean, just because of my dad. Now, we didn't. We wasn't alike far as the race. And he. Somebody said, you keeping that boy in touch, you know, keeping him minded. And he goes, I ain't been able to tell him what to do since he's 16. Well, you know, my dad would change suspensions every night, you know, and. And, yeah, I always kind of had his standard setup and kind of worked on it. I watched Billy Moyer over there, you know, changing a spring. I'm like, you know, that's a lot easier. That's. That's cool. And he's always fast, you know, and my dad, he's. I will have lace spring on, put it on cantilever, you know, in one night or something. You know, he's. He's wide open, like a mad scientist, but just a different style. But, you know, I was a little ahead of the curve. I felt. Now, looking back, I. I didn't think so at the time, but, you know, I could take sandals and rebuild them and all that, you know, where most people couldn't. They were just buying them.

[Kenny Wallace]

But I. I remember coming in the shop there, and your dad had a cigarette hanging out his mouth, and he had a left front upper a frame and bolted to the perch, but the perch wasn't welded to the clip. And he'd tack it. He'd tack it, and then he'd run it through a camber curve. And he, you know, he was looking for something. But I think that, you know, listen, I don't know your father like, you know, and my God, but I have these visions. And I was afraid of your father. I mean, because for me, he. He. He was bigger than life. I'm like, holy Larry Phillips, you know, my God. And you're right, you know, him and Jerry Sifford Ciffert would make your dad some spindles. And your dad, I mean, he. He was. It was just. He just worked so hard because, you know, your. Your father was a great race car driver, but one thing I admired about him is he understood that the car had to handle to win. And I think sometimes these young kids think it's always them, you know, oh, I'm no good. I'm like, no, you're. Don't handle. There's a method for my madness, the segue out here. Yeah, this is. This is my opinion. You're great. That's my opinion. And you. You went and ran modifieds and, you know, straighten me out if I'M wrong here, but let me try this. You were a little disappointed with your model, your late model program. You were. You're like eh, late models, you know. And it went off to your model in the last three weeks. You become a hero. You, you back to a Longhorn. You won two in a row at Legit. And I don't know where else but that process of, of thinking, is it me? Is the car? What is it? Just I know you pay attention to your chassis. Tell me about what happened here the last month.

[Terry Phillips]

Well, so I hadn't. Yeah, you know, I had car late models there and I was just struggling. This new technology bringing NASCAR basically into our dirt racing, especially the late model deal. You know the, the, the Dinos and the springs and the, you know, late models are limited on, you know, our modifiers. We can put 18 bars under it if we want to. You know where, where late models has gotten four bars and. Which looks like a spaceship to a lot of people, but it's pretty simple stuff. But so they go to the springs and shocks and you just spend and spin and spin and try and, and you got to have experts to kind of help you out and all that. And maybe because I'm old school, I'm, you know, I can handle this myself. Well, as time went on I, I mean I had admit to myself that it was as much as. For one, I don't even know how to work a computer still. I'm surprised his phone's working. But. But so I got kids that do it for me. But, but it was just, it was just tough. It was just tough. And I'm like, man, do I want to do this? I mean this is so different than when I was raised and it pounded in my head and, and, and I was struggling. Won a few, you know, there at the end. But it's like man, hard to make a living, you know. That's what I'm still trying to do. And. The modified deal come along and, and Joe Garrison from GRT passed away and. And man, I basically was on my own again. I started building some cars and it's kind of, it's just tough. It's, you know, I haven't.

[Kenny Wallace]

Things got hard.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, it just got real hard. So in the end, I've teamed up with Tanner Mullins here. Now he builds cars. Hard work, 31 year old, but you'd think he's from our era, you know, I mean that's why I like him. Hardworking kid and family and we travel together. And now I'm starting To get better, you know, I got somebody to talk to about. What are you feeling what I'm feeling, you know, and we work real well together, so that's. That's going pretty good right now. And. But the late model thing just. I'll be honest, I'm at old number one. Like, he's talking about my. My. My ex son law, Kyle Beard. He's. He's. He's the daddy to my two, you know, two of my grandbabies, and I'm down there visit them and, hey, dad's racing tonight at all number one. You want to go? I want to go see my dad. I'm like, I'll take you. You know, we. We go out there. I'm sitting in a lawn chair and the. The fella, Sean man's his name that owns. Owns cow beard stuff and his son races. They're like, he's. He bugs me. He's out. Vado want me to drive. Not bug me, but wants me to drive his. His late model all the time. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm not that interested. I'm in this mod. I got my brain on this, you know, and. And anyway, I take my grandkids to. To go watch their dad race. And it started, hey, drive my car. Said I'm all right, you know, Drive my car, you know, all night. And he's like, I said, dude, my head's so big, you don't even have a helmet to fit my head. You know, bring my stuff. Well, he comes dragging out a helmet. That half ass fits me, you know? And I'm like, well, I'm pretty big boy, you know. You don't have a suit. I got one that's a little too big, you know, and put it on. It's. I can barely get it on. I'm like, all right. My grandkids are bugging me, wanting me to race against their dad, you know, and it's exciting. I got. I'm like, I guess, you know, I have like almost four years. I got in the thing. I snuck me in. Basically, they're lined up for the feature. I haven't even hot lap this guy. Haven't done nothing. I got in the car while they're lined up and we go out there and I guess in the. Man, this thing don't even have any rear brakes, and the carburetor's chugging, you know, and it's a little track, and I'm like, oh, boy, you know, this. This is gonna be a man. When I kind of got Me, I fell back to like fourth or something. And I'm on and I'm starting to pick them off. I'm getting me a little rhythm. And they had a yellow and I got this Kyle beard win, which he wins there in a modified late mall. That's his home track. And he, he's an animal there no matter who comes in. And he's leading this thing. I got beside him on the last lap and so he won. And I second in this same guy's car. I think his son run third. And we go to the infield and you know, the old owner down there, we're kind of buddies, you know. I get out of the car and he looks at me, you cheating? Some. He said he didn't know I was there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Snuck Terry Jean in the car.

[Terry Phillips]

Yes, snuck me in the car and got a second, you know, got beside him. And then I don't know, like Tuesday, I'm taking my truck to get it serviced, you know, Peterbilt. And I got a couple kids. My got that fabric case for me and my, my crew chief. They're. They're young guys, you know, of course they're all about late models, you know, and, and all that. And I get this call from a guy that works on them guys car. What kind you want? I go, what are you talking about? Well, you want a black diamond or a Longhorn? I got it on speaker. I go, what are you talking about, Sean? He's buying you a car. You need to be in a late model. He's. I mean, he's a done deal. He's buying you a car. I'm like. And I look over and them boys, they got their horns up, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, you know,

[Terry Phillips]

they're doing. They're doing the Longhorn. Next thing I know, they go to buy a three race old car from Ethan Dotson, which good friend of mine. And he always pitted for me and know him well. And I get this car and I guess the rest is history. I just race it every once in a while when. When I. But I tell you what, I got this car and you win. I raced at Batesville and we had motor issue, but I went out there for hot laps. Like I said, haven't been in one a long time, especially Baseville, you know, you're hauling ass there and. Yeah, and I go out there and I can't even reach the gas. But I went and fitted to see at their farm and I marked the mark, the interior. I said this. They didn't have an engine in, so I said Put the gas pedal right here. And they. I think they put the top of the pedal to the line. I couldn't reach the gas pedal. And I go out there and I can't. I'm scooting forward. I'm like, I got at least hot lap this thing, you know, Never even been in it or. Or anything. And so we fixed that and I had to go right out for qualifying and went out there, went two laps. Never lifted this turn like a pavement car. Second quick. Overall, I'm like, huh, this is a good car. I think I can still race late models now, you know, so. So I got in a good car and it made me look good, let's put it that way. And I, you know, I always feel like driving. I'm still, you know, even from a modified. I. I feel I'm probably better. My style is better in a late model, but I'm all right in a modified too, you know, But. But it's just. It don't matter where you can steer them around, but the rest is, I mean, kind of history. I, you know, I enjoy race. He modifies. I used to run late model and I tell them, modify guys, I says, modifies my vacation racing. So it started really pissing them off. So I had to quit saying that. And then now the late mall is my vacation racing. So I raced it every once in a while and it went pretty well. And I told my wife, she goes, what do you think about that car at home? It's still a lot of late model talk too. Let's just put it that way. That interests everybody a little more in my world, you know, but.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, I mean, that's what you. You make. That's what you made. 90% of your name, your. I read all your stats. They're all late model.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And anyway, I told her, I said, you know, if I had this car, I probably wouldn't have quit four years ago because this is pretty cool. I don't have to do much. I'm not getting my head all into that. It's just a. I got a basic setup and I tweak a little, and it's worked pretty good. So I'm not. You can overthink them things so easy. And it is. This wears you out till you're just sick of it, you know, that's kind of where I was before, and I'm just not going to let it do that. I go in, no big expectations, and I seem to run better. It's funny how the mind works.

[Kenny Wallace]

Boy, that's all. That's another hour show right there. I've laid in bed before thinking, you know, I'm a late bloomer in dirt race, and I started dirt at 44 years old. And, you know, I've started chasing my own stuff here over the last five years. Up until then, I had Billy Smith, who was a good dirt racer here in Farmington. But I would lay in bed thinking about, I mean, just, you know, I run Eldora or I'd run volusia and be 110 mods and I'm get all worked up. And it was like over the last two years, I said, you know what? I'm gonna go to bed. And I had to shut my brain off. I know we all do it. I know we all do it. I just want to say this. I feel like I have to. This is not about me whatsoever. It's all about you. But I just want to say that, you know, my whole NASCAR cup career, I struggled, and that's no secret. But Steve park got hurt and driving that famous number one Penzo car. And I was in a what used to call bush series. It's O'Reilly nationwide. You know, all these sponsors, it's the same series. And I'm at. I'm at Darlington, and I'm in that, you know, that O'Reilly car. And they said, kenny, Steve park is hurt. Will you drive his number one Penzo car tomorrow in the Southern 500? I'm like, hell, yeah. Terry Jane. I started last in the cup race, and I come from 40th and drove through the field and got up the fourth and broke a oil cooler inside the radiator. You know, they had the oil cooler inside the radiator. And I thought to myself and Mark Martin come up to me, it was Mark that said, herman, I know what you're thinking. And I said, mark, I'm wondering what the hell have I been driving all these years? Just like you said that old car, you'd go in the corner. And I got up underneath Dale Jr. And passed him. You know, if you drive a bad car long enough, it will destroy you, ruin you. And my friend, I'm glad that you were able to experience this, because I. I got. I got a bite of the apple, but then I had to put the apple back down.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

So this, this is a good story to all the racers out there. Don't give up on your race car. Because the man you're looking at right now, Terry Phillips, one of the greatest of all time, it's. That's a Hell of a story, Terry. Yeah. So. Well, that's. That's. That's awesome. We coming to the end here, and I know we could go forever. I like to keep these babies around an hour. We talked about your father in the hall of fame. We talked about you growing up around your dad, talked about how great you are. You got a wonderful family now. You. You're a man now. It's, you know, you. I'm 63, you're 59. I'm 62. But don't be afraid to answer this question. Dirt racing today. Million dollars to win. JD has won all those. Hell, JD Built a ranch. Superman John, he built a ranch with that Eldora money. We saw a man come up there at mansfield, say, here's $88,000 to add to that 1200,000 win. But for the most part, these races pay 10 to 12,000 to win in dirt late models today. How does that compare to when you ran the late model for a living? I need late model expertise from you. Today's world, where a motor costs 60 grand. A Durham Ford is 60 grand to 20 years ago. Where is dirt late model racing today? Can you make a living? Well, I know you can if you're winning, but give me your thought.

[Terry Phillips]

It's definitely different. I mean, they do pay. Did you know Larry Phillips biggest race he's ever once 10,000 win.

[Kenny Wallace]

This is what I'm wanting to hear. That's why I kind of laid it out like that. This is awesome.

[Terry Phillips]

Parkersburg, West Virginia. Motor melts down. Oil running out of it wins him 10,000. That's a big. Of course, back then, Eldora, you know, paid more than that. Pennsborough, he'd go to that. But that's about it. That. That would pay that much, you know, so me coming up, a lot of threes, fours, fives. They're getting it up a little higher because, I mean, stuff just costs more, you know, but there's. I'm gonna guess, and I may be high on this number 15 guys with big sponsors might make a living, you know, and Ricky Thornton and some of those guys have done well, but, man, it takes. This is what I tell people. I said, you used to be able to buy your car, make a living. Now you better make your living then. Buy you a car is about what it amounts to. That's what I see. It's just tough. Everybody's, you know, it's just. Can buy anything. But. So I've been racing this late model a little bit, and I didn't even realize there's this many late models around still. It blows my mind that that legit Speedway had 42. It was Trent Barry's first race, which was awesome. I mean, that's a lot of cars. I didn't even know there was 42 cars in the surrounding states. And Missouri, you know, for. That goes. But. But they still keep going because late models is just where it's at. Cuss too much. But it's the. You know, I mean, it just is. It just is. And. And they still. But these little series are paying three to five and that. And you can. You can do. Or I bet you better have. You got to have help even in the smaller, you know, not the big guy. You know, I say you make money on tv. If you're on tv, you make some money. But that was really hard to win. And you know, and the incentives to show up money and all that kind of keep them going. I mean, they have to do that. But, man, this. You got to have help. This. This motor deal. I run Andy Durham motors. We're good friends, you know, and yeah, he's. He's a good dude. And matter of fact, talked to him yesterday. Hey, you. I heard your dad's, you know, in the hall of fame and you're coming to Charlotte. You know, he goes, you. He goes, you mother. You better come by my shop. I said, well, you know, I love. I go. I was thinking about going to longhorn, which is right down the street. I know this. I was thinking about going Longhorn, checking it out, but I really wasn't.

[FanDuel Legal Disclaimer]

Yeah.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, that's about right. That's about right.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's.

[Terry Phillips]

No, I'm just messing with you. You know, he just. Just get a day. I mean, we're good friends, but he's like, dude, you know, they're too expensive. But it. You know, every time I fresh in mind, well, this went up. That went up. You know, tariffs and. And I don't know how much we get overseas and motor parts. But they still use it, you know, to make more money, it seems like. But it's just crazy compared what it used to be. It's very surprising there as many as their late models out there as there is. But I guess there's people out there making money and you know, you're seeing what on tv, but that's not very many people with money. So to help help their bracer.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, I want to add on to what you're saying. I want to add on to what you're saying. I. You know, I did a Kenny conversation With Brad Sweet and, and I said, you know, Brad started High Limit and you know, he won like four World of Outlaw sprint car championships. And listen everybody, you can go back through, you know, the Kenny Wallace YouTube show and you can see all these conversations. But I asked the same thing to Brad, but I asked, I said, how many World of Outlaw wing sprint car guys make a living? And here's in finality, here's what he said. Three of us that have great sponsors and 4, 5 and 6 are hanging on and the rest, they're just there. So you're right. I like the way you said that. You're, you know, you just kind of picked 15 out of thin air. And the rest, I mean they, I call them sugar daddies just for fun. But you, you better have a hoker, you know, Petrov, you better have a construction guy that for the love of racing, they put the crew members on the payroll. I get it, Terry. And thank God that these great businessmen love racing because.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, I mean, in the end you can, you can.

[FanDuel Legal Disclaimer]

I.

[Terry Phillips]

You know, even the Andy's deal, this is. And I probably shouldn't bring, but like the owner of it, me and John Koontz, he passed away and I spoke at his funeral. We become really good friends and in, you know, for a while I kind of doubted that. You know, they've always sponsored me and, and would go now, not so much. But it's like, am I really helping them, you know, with advertising? I mean, region, we all know. I mean I travel, I go all over the country. But now they franchise.

[Kenny Wallace]

They're everywhere.

[Terry Phillips]

Everywhere. Texas. And now I know I do, you know, saying I know I help them because that's all I hear, you know, I'd seen it. Andy's on your car. I was stopping in. That stuff's good, you know. Yeah, that kind of thing, you know. So I'm glad to do that. But, but you've got to find like Mr. Bab, you know, he, he ran a hospital. Nothing to do, no advertisement. Just loves racing and, and it's, it's hard to find those people, you know, and I'm very, very grateful. And the older I get, the more I'm grateful, you know, you, you put things in a little better perspective with, with, with, with this, you know, knowledge of get, you know, your knowledge that you gain when you get older is what I tell these kids. You know, it's just knowledge is all it is. This right here is knowledge.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's kind of sad. We live life backwards, don't we? Where the hell Was this when I was young?

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Can I buy knowledge? Is it at Walmart?

[Terry Phillips]

You know? Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay.

[Terry Phillips]

I think it's on the computers. What they tell me.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, that Google has saved my ass, man. I just Google everything. Get the real answer. Yeah, I was looking for a pump for my swimming pool slide. You know, Poppy here. I'm Poppy, and, yeah, so am I. Oh, well, we're gonna end like that, but they. They said we got a party Friday, and Poppy's got to get the pump working. You just Google pump for swimming pool slide. Pops right up.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. Let's end like this. Terry, you said something to me over 10 years ago that I just loved, and I think this will be fitting. I was in Arizona, and you looked at me and you said, herman, if I knew these grandkids were going to be this great, I'd have skipped my real kids. Where are you at in your life? How many grandkids you got? What's up?

[Terry Phillips]

We got. We. We got four of them. My oldest daughter has three, and then my youngest daughter, which. Which is 32. Yeah, four. She's 34, and she was just texting me. She's my. She. Anything you read on me on. On. On Facebook, that's her, because. I don't know.

[Kenny Wallace]

She loves you, man. She loves you.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, she just had a baby. I mean, he ain't. He ain't but a few months old, so that's pretty cool. And they're. They're one and done, you know, Their husband's a little older, anyway. His name's Phoenix. Phoenix Phillips. I've got two grandkids with middle name Phillips, so that's pretty cool.

[Kenny Wallace]

I love it. Phillips. That's a rock group, I think. Philip Phillips.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah. Yeah, I might be. But no, it's. It's. It's great. We. They live in Arkansas, four hours away, so my wife goes down there more me, because I'm gone a lot. But, I mean, we had to buy a big old, like, suburban, you know, one of them Wagoneers. My grandson calls it a Wagoner. We got to get in a G wagon. They call her Gigi. Get the Gigi Wagon, you know, instead of G Wagon. But we had to get a car, you know, so we could get all the grandkids at one time, just in case, you know. So she burns the road up going down there, and I go when I can, and. And. Pretty neat. Pretty neat deal, you know?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Terry Phillips]

I got. I got one little quote here, though. My. My dad, the old mean guy, you know, Larry Phillips.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah.

[Terry Phillips]

He said he used to get on me because, you know, I mellowed out some. But I'm. I'm kind of like you. I'm a little bit of a joker. I like messing with people, you know, you're fun.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're fun.

[Terry Phillips]

He get it. He'd look at me with him eyes bugged out. He'd, my God, that You're just real funny. I don't know whether to buy you a new motor or a damn stage for your comedy act. He goes, you know, that's how Rust. He'd say, you know, that's how Rusty Wallace got where he's at. I've heard that a million times. That's how Rusty Wallace got where he's at, being funny, you know? I said, but Kenny did. That's what I feel. He didn't look at me. He couldn't argue, couldn't argue with me.

[Kenny Wallace]

Listen, your. Your father, although I was afraid of him, you're. And since you've gone there, we'll end like this. Your dad did something that made me feel like a million dollars. Two things. And this is how big your father was in my life. I was leading a race in Miami, Homestead, leading it, going to win, and got down in the corner. Turn three, Miami Homestead, Big Bush grand national race, live on tv.

[Terry Phillips]

And

[Kenny Wallace]

what was his name? Larry Pearson.

[Terry Phillips]

He.

[Kenny Wallace]

He didn't have nothing for me, but he knocked the hell out of me. And I wrecked so bad. And I got out of that car and I went and sat down at the wall. And your dad watched this race on tv. Larry Phillips. And your dad said, I felt so bad for you. I wanted to. If I'd have been there, I'd have come sit right next to you. And I was like, holy moly. You know, Right. Your dad showed some empathy and. And then that wasn't it. The. The very last one he came to Peevley i55, Federated Auto Parts. And you'll probably remember, remember this. He had a gas tank off, you know, when your dad was into the Harleys and the motorcycles. And. And he said, I. I got some signatures on this, and these are the signatures I want. Rusty Wallace, Kenny Schrader, whatever. And I want your signature on it, Kenny.

[Terry Phillips]

I mean, I was.

[Kenny Wallace]

I couldn't breathe. I signed it, and he sent him a clear coat over this. Now, I don't know whatever happened to that gas tank.

[Terry Phillips]

I have it.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're kidding me.

[Terry Phillips]

No. I had fixed. I fixed it all up, but I took all the metal off of it. The sign and all that, and put it away and made it fast. And I don't even ride it because it's too damn fast. But anyway. But I got all the metal. Metal from that. That bike that I'm pretty sure Rusty Wallace give to my dad. I'm pretty sure as a gift. Maybe Schrader had something to do with it, but they showed up with it. I just remember dad talking about that, you know, he goes, rusty was sponsored by it. I want this Deuce is certain kind of Harley, you know, and. And Rusty sponsored by. Just called him to see if he could find me one, and then it shows up, and he goes, and. And the little bastard won't even let me pay him for it. He was, like, aggravated, you know, I wasn't. I wasn't calling him to get something free, you know, and. And all this, But I think maybe Rusty and Schrader give him that bike, and I. I still have it back there.

[Kenny Wallace]

So will you take. Will you take a picture of that and send it to me when you get time? That will mean everything to me. One last thing. Here we go.

[Terry Phillips]

We have a lot of last things.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, I know. I can't help it. You listen. This is a therapy session for me.

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

At the time, I had an airplane, and I flew from Charlotte, North Carolina, to St. Louis. And I was presented an opportunity to, you know, quit racing at 36 years old and go to work for Fox Sports, you know, for a lot of money, because I can talk. And I said, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go ask Larry. And I. And Jerry Sifford was alive. I said, jerry, you want to go with me? We flew up to your dad's shop. That was when he was playing with planes. And we talked about his cancer. And I said. I said, larry, I said, I need some advice. I said, I'm being asked to quit racing and work for Fox. And your dad looked at me and he goes, well, you can't do that. You're a racer. Oh, saved my life. I gave up, like, a million dollars a year because of your dad. So in ending, you know, we're not mean like your dad, but in the end, you know, he really helped me because I know who I am. But people have made fun of me my whole life for being happy. And I'm like, you're confusing the two. I'm just happy, you know, I couldn't win. I can't win nine. Nine of those damn bush races going down the straightaway, you know, 100, 160, top 10. So at the end of this conversation. You drug that up. Thank you, Terry.

[Terry Phillips]

No, no problem. Hey, you gotta. You got to enjoy what you're doing is what I've learned, you know, as I got older here, I'm like, man, I know I'm getting to the end. I don't want to admit it. I can still out drive. Well, I say most, I think all of them, you know, but you got to put things in perspective. And, you know, at the end of my late model career, it was. I mean, it was pretty dismal, you know, And I'm like, you know, I'm on a. You don't realize you're having fun until it just goes to hell,

[Kenny Wallace]

mother, you know?

[Terry Phillips]

Yeah, it just goes to hell, you know, and anyway, it's like, I'm gonna start having some fun. And it's funny how you just like with the late mall, I'm running better, you know, don't overthink it. Have a little fun because you don't care.

[Kenny Wallace]

You don't care.

[Terry Phillips]

You know, I mean, you do. It's. It's him. It's embedded. You try not to. Try not to care too much. Let's put that one.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's not life and death. Now where. When you were raising those kids and you were married like that, you know, you're married, you got kids, it is life or death, you know?

[Terry Phillips]

Yes.

[Kenny Wallace]

All right, everybody. There he is, Terry Phillips. And as we do at the end of every conversation, remember, you can watch this conversation two ways on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show or over there on Dale Jr's Dirty Mo Media podcast. Terry, you got anything else?

[Terry Phillips]

I think that's it. We're gonna have to do this, you know, a little more often. I mean, we don't have to be on camera. We can just have some good chats.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, Mark Martin. We talk every week, Ev. And who would have. I would have never saw that coming in a million years. Hell, Mark took his motor coach and drove up my driveway and spent the night here. I took him out to eat him. And madness. Never saw it coming. So having fun is in your future. Me and Kim, I remember time, maybe,

[Terry Phillips]

maybe a Wallace and Martin may not been such buddies back in the day. I think these pretty big rivals at 1.22 kids.

[Kenny Wallace]

And that's what I say, you know, two kids. Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, and then the dad, Larry Phillips, and they made it to the hall of fame. All right, everybody. There he is. It is awesome. All right, until the next Kenny conversation. Goodbye, everybody.

[Terry Phillips]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter.

[Kenny Wallace]

Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.

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