Herm & Schrader – “The Dick Trickle Philosophy, ‘We’re gonna die racing’, & Phantom Lightning Delays: Best of 2025”

Podcast: Herm & Schrader
Hosts: Kenny Wallace & Ken Schrader
Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Production: SiriusXM, Dirty Mo Media
Featured Guests: Mark Martin, Tony Stewart, Hermie Sadler, Craig Moore, Charlie, Drew

Episode Overview

This lively "Best of 2025" episode brings together some of the funniest, most memorable, and most heartfelt moments from the Herm & Schrader podcast’s first season. Hosts Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader revisit standout stories, poke fun at each other's quirks, air racing grievances, and have honest conversations about their unending passion for motorsports. Interspliced with classic anecdotes and fresh takes on NASCAR, the hosts are joined by fellow racing luminaries, making for a raucous, unfiltered celebration of racing culture—past, present, and future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Herm & Schrader Dynamic and NASCAR Self-Awareness

• [02:27–05:06]
  • Kenny and Schrader riff on the podcast’s origins and the fun of their odd-couple friendship.
    • Kenny Schrader: “I like spending time with you.”
    • Kenny Wallace: “We’re always honest… We have fun. And Everybody loves us because we pick on each other.”
  • Discussion of NASCAR’s rare self-criticism during the Daytona and Xfinity races; praise for the organization’s openness in admitting mistakes.
    • Kenny Schrader: “It’s when you’re screwed up and think you’re okay, that’s when you’re really screwed up.”

2. Dick Trickle: Racer and Philosopher

• [05:07–07:58]
  • Kenny recounts legendary “Dick Trickle Philosophy” stories; Dick’s wisdom applies to both racing and life.
    • Wallace, quoting Trickle: “Do you know why we get married? So we can have somebody witness our life... We always pretend wives are a pain in the ass, but we love them, can’t live with them, can’t live without them.”
    • On vacations: “So we can go back home.”
  • Trickle’s approach after contact on the track: “No, I bumped you. Now, you had to make the decision whether you were going to save it or wreck. And you decided to wreck.” – [07:01] Schrader

3. Owning the “Faux Show Bar & Grill” and Namesake Antics

• [08:09–10:44] Hermie Sadler shares
  • The hilarious story of how trademark trolls tried to monetize his name (which at one time was attached to a porn site), leading to a clever workaround for his restaurant’s name.
    • Hermie Sadler: “Every time I pulled up something that had Hermie Sadler in it, somebody had already bought the rights to my name... So I called my attorney… and said, trademark it right now.”

4. Why Veteran Racers Just Can’t Quit

• [10:44–12:59]
  • Kenny Schrader describes his undimmed passion for grassroots dirt track racing, despite a long career.
    • Schrader: “I guess because I didn't make as much money as all you guys, so I'm still trying to win… What I always wanted to do, and I don't want to do it any less than I used to.”
  • Wallace notes some racers can never leave the track, while others are just done with it—the psychology of “never retiring.”

5. The Value (and Burden) of a Historic Win – Tony Stewart’s NHRA Triumph

• [13:24–18:20] Tony Stewart recounts
  • Winning his first NHRA Top Fuel “Wally” and being the first driver ever to win at IndyCar, NASCAR, USAC, and NHRA levels.
  • Emphasis on what the win meant for his crew, reflecting on pressure and emotion—paralleling Stewart-Haas Racing’s first Cup win in 2009.
    • Stewart [18:19]: “To win an IndyCar championship, three NASCAR championships, the USAC Triple Crown, and now a Top Fuel race… it has never been done.”

6. The Kyle Petty Charity Ride – Camaraderie, Cause, and Community

• [20:24–24:35]
  • Schrader and Wallace discuss their experiences riding with Kyle Petty’s cross-country charity motorcycle event to benefit the Victory Junction Gang Camp, created in memory of Adam Petty.
  • Emphasis on how fundraising for sick children brings the racing community together:
    • Schrader: “You meet people and Kyle talks about becoming family… Everybody’s got a name tag on… you just meet so many good people and people that are all there for the same reason.”
    • Wallace: “This ride is heartfelt… who can argue with helping kids?”

7. Modern NASCAR Controversies: Rough Driving & Driver Discipline

• [25:28–31:39]
  • Discussion of Carson Hocevar’s aggressive driving, Ricky Stenhouse Jr.’s viral sound bite (“No, that’s too expensive” [26:11]), and parallels with notorious rough racers of old (e.g., Ernie Irvan).
  • The show explores whether wild, controversial young drivers like Hocevar are “good for business.”
    • Wallace: “Ticket sales are noticeably up when fans think a driver is going to wreck people. It’s crazy… but it’s real.”
    • Charlie: “I get Ross Chastain about three years ago vibes… great for business.”

8. Points Systems, Playoffs, and What Makes a “True” NASCAR Champion

• [31:39–36:14, 54:34–60:07]
  • Discussion of Wallace’s social media poll finding fans want the old 36-race, season-long points system — echoes of Richard Petty’s outspoken disapproval of the playoff format and road course “win-and-in” rules.
    • Drew [33:54]: “They don’t want the answer because they don’t want the fans to know that it's not up to the fans. It’s up to the TV and the people.”
    • Wallace: “I feel like what I accomplished in my career is being diminished by gimmicks.”
  • Old point system meant drivers like Bill Elliott (11 wins in 1985) or Rusty Wallace (10 wins in 1993) still might not win the championship.
    • Schrader [56:37]: “The people that want the old championship… those guys have already shown their superiority… I also understand why someone likes the playoffs. You’re not going to make everyone happy.”

9. Phantom Lightning Delays and Modern Race Control

• [37:45–40:45]
  • A humorous look at recent “phantom” lightning delays at races, where spectators are evacuated with no visible storm in the area.
    • Charlie: “If there was lightning coming down the road, it could be really bad, so I get why they do it, but as a fan, I would probably hate it.”
    • Wallace [39:17]: “The race ended, like, around midnight. What do you know about lightning delays?”
    • Schrader: “Well, I know you don’t want to get hit by it.”

10. The Pull Between Family and Racing Obsession

• [41:00–44:18]
  • Wallace describes Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s emotional interview after a short-track Cars Tour race, torn between love for racing and family obligations.
    • Wallace: “He said he can only run four races because the races are too hot for him… He’s raced his whole life. He almost started to cry.”
    • Schrader: “I just go race… but I’m more of a fan of the normal family life he has now and what he does to protect it. Makes me happy.”

11. Why Some Drivers Move On, Others Never Will

• [44:18–49:12]
  • Analysis of retired drivers who never look back (e.g., Jeff Gordon, Rusty Wallace), versus those who “can’t quit” (Schrader, Wallace, Tony Stewart, Kasey Kahne).
    • Charlie [46:26]: “Baseball, you don’t see a lot of former players getting together in an old man’s league, but you do with hockey.”
    • Schrader: “He [Jeff Gordon] doesn’t want to [race anymore]… He wants to do his job at Hendrick Motorsports, just like we want to race.”
    • Wallace: "People ask me all the time, do you miss NASCAR? And I said, no, because I still race all the time."

12. On-Track Drama: Team Orders, Paybacks, and Playoff Tensions

• [49:42–53:02]
  • Wallace and Schrader relive moments where multi-car teams and family ties (like Ty Gibbs vs Denny Hamlin) complicate playoff battles.
    • Wallace: “If we’re a four-car team and you’re not in the championship race… let me go. We’re all racing for the win but… let me go.”
    • Schrader: “The neat part will be what’s in how it comes across in the team meeting… It’s a little different when it’s the grandson of the owner.”

13. Crew Chief Calls and (Mis)Fortune in Race Strategy

• [64:10–72:04]
  • Emotional breakdown of Denny Hamlin’s near-miss at Phoenix: the heartbreak of a late caution when in sight of victory, and the scrutiny over tire calls.
    • Wallace: “He’s got a 2.5 second lead with four laps to go… it was so emotional.”
    • Schrader [69:18]: “The biggest difference was you had Kyle Larson, one of the best, obviously… in front of you with two tires, several cars in front.”
    • Schrader [71:35]: “Denny was behind the decision [to take four tires]. So there it is.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:07] Kenny Schrader: “Dick Trickle philosophy. You can learn a lot there, boy.”
• [07:01] Kenny Schrader (on Trickle): “No, I bumped you. Now, you had to make the decision whether you were going to save it or if you were going to wreck.”
• [13:24] Tony Stewart: “It brought me back to the first race that Stewart Haas Racing won together at the All Star race.”
• [18:19] Tony Stewart: “To win an IndyCar championship, three NASCAR championships, the USAC Triple Crown, and now a Top Fuel race… it has never been done.”
• [26:11] Charlie (on Stenhouse): “He was asked, are you going to talk to him tonight? And he said, no, that’s too expensive.”
• [29:25] Schrader: “He’ll get over Charlie Black Eyes, but he’ll get over.”
• [31:39] Wallace: “Richard Petty come out today… Richard Said I don’t like a guy 32nd into points halfway through the year, winning a road course race and he’s in the playoffs.”
• [33:54] Drew: “They don’t want the [fan] answer because… it’s not up to the fans.”
• [36:14] Wallace: “I feel like what I accomplished in my career is being diminished by gimmicks.”
• [39:46] Wallace: “The final analysis… erring on the side of safety. There’s no lightning, but boy, it looks like it could happen.”
• [49:01] Schrader: “It’s not a nerve. It’s what somebody wants to do… You like spaghetti, I don’t. Just do what you want.”
• [56:37] Schrader: “Those guys have already shown their superiority… I can also understand why someone likes the playoffs.”
• [67:36] Craig Moore: “It was the opposite. Danny took [four tires] and everybody else took two.”
• [71:35] Schrader: “Denny was behind the decision. So there it is.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:27] – Herm & Schrader’s origin and NASCAR self-critique
• [05:07] – The philosophy of Dick Trickle
• [08:09] – Hermie Sadler’s Faux Show Bar & Grill story
• [10:44] – Why Kenny Schrader still races
• [13:24] – Tony Stewart on his historic drag racing win
• [20:24] – Kyle Petty Charity Ride for Victory Junction Gang
• [25:28] – Rough racing: Carson Hocevar and business of bad boys
• [31:39] – The points system, fan polls, and Richard Petty
• [37:45] – The weird world of “phantom” lightning delays
• [41:00] – Dale Jr.’s family vs racing dilemma
• [44:18] – The psychology of retirement and never letting go
• [49:42] – Team orders, Ty Gibbs vs Denny Hamlin
• [54:34] – Whether the best drivers always win the championship
• [64:10] – Denny Hamlin’s heartbreak at Phoenix and the tire call
• [67:36] – Crew chief strategies dissected

Tone & Language

The show combines blue-collar Midwestern candor, racing bravado, affectionate ribbing, and genuine soul-searching. Storytelling is colloquial, peppered with self-deprecation and unfiltered honesty, punctuated by heartfelt tributes to peers and brash, crowd-pleasing punchlines.

In Summary

This “Best Of” episode distills why Herm & Schrader is so beloved: two racing lifers swapping stories (some possibly true), laughing at themselves, debating the state of the sport, and throwing out nuggets of hard-earned wisdom—sometimes profound, usually irreverent, and always straight from the heart.

Whether you’re a longtime NASCAR nut or a “new race fan,” this roundup is the perfect crash course in the joys, controversies, and family that define American motorsports.