The Two-Tire Gamble That Cost Christopher Bell The Iowa Win

Summary

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Herm & Schrader Podcast Summary

Episode: The Two-Tire Gamble That Cost Christopher Bell The Iowa Win

Date: August 12, 2026
Hosts: Kenny Wallace (“Herman”) & Kenny Schrader
Guests/Contributors: “Deets” (regular contributor)

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Overview

This episode brings the signature mix of irreverent storytelling and deep racing knowledge as Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader dissect one of the season’s most talked-about NASCAR decisions: the tire gamble at Iowa that saw Ty Gibbs steal the win from Christopher Bell. The conversation is filled with insights on tire strategy, racing surfaces, NASCAR’s evolving approach to scheduling and race length, and the health of grassroots and national racing scenes. Along the way, the hosts touch on dirt race heroics, standout drivers (including the Quaffle brothers), and give their uncensored takes on everything from fan experience to leadership at NASCAR.

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Main Discussion Topics & Key Insights

1. Racetrack Surfaces and Tire Strategy at Iowa

[06:26 - 10:21]

• Ty Gibbs’ Gamble: Ty Gibbs took two tires late on Iowa’s rough, worn surface, while Christopher Bell took four, leading to a dramatic finish.
• Surface is Everything: Both Kennys stress that the condition and age of the racing surface changes everything:
  • Kenny Schrader: “What you’re racing on is the key to everything, boy.” (05:50)
  • The old, slippery Iowa pavement required delicate throttle control; new tires “didn’t seem like that big of an advantage.” (10:21 - Deets)
• Schrader recalls Dean Roper’s advice: “There’s a thousand spots in that, that gas pedal.” (08:32)

2. Repaving Debate & The Future of Iowa

[09:37 - 19:05]

• Debate on whether tracks should be repaved or allowed to stay gritty and worn for better racing ("cheese grater" analogy and comparisons to Wilkesboro and Darlington).
• Announcement that Iowa is being repaved, with hosts noting the signal that NASCAR will return.
  • "They're going back to Iowa." (15:33 - Wallace/Schrader)
  • Noted optics: 30,000-seat sellout looks fantastic for TV and fans, compared to partially filled massive venues.

3. Driver Etiquette and Late-Race Dynamics

[11:41 - 15:18]

• Discussion on Brad Keselowski refusing to yield while being lapped at the finish, affecting Bell’s shot at Gibbs:
  • Schrader: “We’re racing … That’s what we’re supposed to do is race.” (13:11)
  • Deets and Schrader joke about the politics of bumping a teammate who’s also the owner’s grandson.

4. NASCAR Scheduling and Showmanship

[16:35 - 20:07]

• Observations about NASCAR releasing next season’s schedule one race at a time—a break from tradition that keeps excitement and demand high.

5. The “Point Them to Death” Philosophy – Second Place as Strategy

[21:08 - 24:35]

• Christopher Bell's “bridesmaid” frustration: seven 2nd places, yet solidly championship-eligible.
  • Schrader: “Fifths and sixths will win you a championship.”
  • Deets references Matt Kenseth’s 2003 title: “He pointed them so bad they created the Chase.”

6. Mechanical Issues and NASCAR’s Rulebook

[24:56 - 31:35]

• Denny Hamlin’s struggles with brakes pre-race: “I’ve never felt beat before the race started.” (27:56 - Wallace paraphrasing Hamlin)
• NASCAR’s reluctance to allow brake pad changes due to “R&D” loopholes—explored by Deets.
• Discussion of parity in the current car: “They are dead set on everybody’s stuff being the same.” (28:37 - Wallace)

7. Stage Breaks, Race Length, and Fan Engagement

[29:29 - 39:33, 41:06 - 43:13]

• Praise for NASCAR’s tweak: If a caution falls within 10 laps of a stage break, they combine them—”shortening races without shortening races.” (43:13 - Wallace)
• Stage breaks double as built-in concession and restroom breaks for fans.
• Schrader: “I like stage breaks … It’s two yellow flags you know when are coming.” (34:14)
• Debate on overall race length: Deets argues for shorter races outside of the "crown jewels."
  • “Take it off … Anything beyond [the major races] is fair game.” (38:21 - Deets)

8. NASCAR’s Health: Teams Expanding, Crowds Growing

[44:39 - 48:45]

• Ford’s plans to build a four-door Mustang and what it signals about automakers’ engagement.
• Haas Factory adding a new O’Reilly team:
  • “The doom and gloom is greatly exaggerated. People want to build NASCAR teams … It is the big time.” (48:44 – Wallace)
• Local tracks and national series boasting big crowds: “Everything is packed everywhere.” (45:17 - Wallace)

9. Dirt Racing Scene: Ownership, Expansion, and Energy

[49:59 - 54:41]

• Chase Briscoe buying into Brent Marks Racing for the High Limit Sprint Car Series.
  • Schrader: “You couldn’t be no more dirt background than Chase Briscoe.” (50:45)
• Both High Limit and World of Outlaws series are thriving, even if they’re dividing the field a little—dirt racing remains hot, collaborative, and fan-friendly.

10. Rising Stars: The Quaffle Brothers Story

[52:57 - 56:30]

• Carson Kwapple wins second straight O’Reilly race; both he and brother Caden praised as “good, humble kids.”
  • Travis, their dad, celebrates their shop-first mentality on social media.
  • Deets: “Best compliment I could give them: I hope my boys grow up as good as those two boys have.” (56:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On racing surface wisdom:
  Kenny Schrader: “There’s a thousand places in that gas pedal … You just give it there ‘til you feel those rear tires aren’t going to take anymore.” (08:32)

• On the sellouts vs. optics:
  Kenny Wallace: “It just makes NASCAR look so good when we sell out a 25 or 30,000 seat racetrack.” (15:38)

• On stage breaks:
  Kenny Schrader: “It’s got them racing a lot harder for that first hundred laps and second hundred laps … they’re just racing harder all the time.” (35:54)

• On leadership:
  Deets: “I think this is the best leadership group the sports had in close to 30 years, 25 at least.” (43:13)

• On NASCAR’s trajectory:
  Wallace quoting Candace Spencer: “NASCAR is headed up … The business model is so bad that people are lining up to buy a team.” (49:59, 49:28)

• On why dirt racing is thriving:
  Deets: “Dirt racing is working … Instead of someone coming along to be a partner, pavement racing always tries to compete and split the field.” (52:13)

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Dirt Racing & Life: Race Week Recap

[57:48 - 62:51]

• Big weekends at Florence, Pevely, Knoxville:
  • Josh Rice takes home $75k at North-South 100.
  • Chris Windom and Logan Shuhart score huge wins at Pevely.
  • Kyle Larson wins the Capuccino Classic; fields of 80+ sprint cars at Knoxville.
• Bucky’s gas station humor: an accidental Midwest travelogue and ode to the beloved megaplex truck stops.

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Jokes & Personality

[64:54 - 66:06]

• Deets on marriage:
  “Maturing in marriage is realizing that when your husband says he’d do anything for you, he means fighting bad guys and dragons … not folding clothes and washing dishes.”
• Show wraps with Kenny’s chaotic dirt racing travel itinerary and a tribute to Wallace’s brother Rusty, who’s being inducted into the Sturgis Motorcycle Hall of Fame.

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Closing Thoughts

• NASCAR is on an upswing: more teams, healthier local scenes, strong leadership, crowded races.
• The right balance of race strategy, smart rules, and community is keeping the sport fun for fans and competitors alike.
• Grassroots and dirt stars are still the backbone—and new faces are rising the right way.

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For listeners:
This episode is loaded with classic Herm & Schrader banter, rich technical insights, and unfiltered wisdom. If you didn’t catch the show, this summary packs the big stories, racing philosophy, and cultural flavor—Midwestern candor, jokes, and all.

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Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Guest/Speaker | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------------|--------------------|-------------| | Opening banter & fair season in St. Louis | Wallace, Schrader | 02:42-04:43 | | Surfaces and tire strategy at Iowa | Wallace, Schrader, Deets | 06:26-11:41 | | Driver etiquette: Keselowski and Bell/Gibbs finish | Wallace, Schrader | 11:41-15:18 | | Iowa sellout, the optics of modern NASCAR crowds | Wallace, Schrader | 15:18-18:39 | | Schedule announcements and speculation | Deets, Wallace, Schrader | 18:39-20:07 | | Second place, championship philosophy | Deets, Wallace, Schrader | 21:08-24:35 | | Denny’s brake issues & NASCAR parity | Wallace, Deets, Schrader | 24:56-31:35 | | Stage breaks, race length rules | Wallace, Schrader | 31:35-39:33 | | Race and schedule length discussion | Deets, Wallace | 39:33-43:13 | | Ford’s new Mustang and team health | Wallace, Schrader | 44:39-48:45 | | Dirt expansion, Briscoe & sprint cars | Schrader, Wallace | 49:59-54:41 | | Carson Kwapple’s emergence; Quaffle family praise | Deets, Wallace | 52:57-56:30 | | Weekly dirt race recap & Bucky’s digression | Schrader, Wallace, Deets | 57:25-64:45 | | Junkie marriage joke & show wrap-up | Deets | 64:54-66:06 | | Tribute to Rusty Wallace & Sturgis Hall of Fame | Wallace, Deets | 66:47-69:49 |

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“If winning’s the only thing, we’re all in trouble.”
— Kenny Schrader (24:51)

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Transcript

[Herman Schrader]

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[Kenny Schrader]

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[Kenny Schrader]

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[Herman Schrader]

via virtual prebaid guard card typically takes 15 days after rebate submission price guarantee on Talk text and 5G data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Herman Schrader on the Dirty Mo Media platform from the middle of America in St. Louis, Missouri, starts right now. The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. I'm looking at Kenny Schrader right now.

[Kenny Schrader]

He is a drinker on this show. I mean, yeah, you.

[Herman Schrader]

How in the world did we agree to do a podcast?

[Kenny Schrader]

I like spending time with you.

[Herman Schrader]

That makes me happy.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, it's all about making you happy.

[Herman Schrader]

We're always honest.

[Kenny Schrader]

We don't know that we're not in trouble, and sometimes truthful. What makes you think you're not a little different?

[Herman Schrader]

You're weird, too. Herman Schrader.

[Kenny Schrader]

Right now is even a little bit earlier than it usually is. We got an early start.

[Herman Schrader]

Kenny Schrader wanted to start 15 minutes early. That makes me happy. Does that mean you were getting ready to, as you say, shove off?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Yeah. We're going to Canada for four play days and a race, and then over to New York for a couple play days and New Hampshire and then Massachusetts and then hustle back to hopefully run Lincoln, Illinois, two weeks. You know, Springfield fairs coming up.

[Herman Schrader]

You see me smiling because you know me and I know you and deets. I don't know if you know this about Schrader, but in the St. Louis area, when fair time starts up. Decoyne, Springfield, the locals remember, you know, the AJ Foyt, Marion Dreddy days. They'll head over to Du Coin for their funnel cake. And I smile because that is the history of St. Louis, isn't it, Kenny?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. They got funnel cakes. They got a beer tent, too.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. Okay, everybody. We just learned the truth. The fares are. Yeah, we'll race the car, too.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Not all funnel cakes.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

So, okay, well, Kenny, before we get talking about Iowa and everything that happened up there during the NASCAR weekend, what did you do over the weekend?

[Kenny Schrader]

Man, I got to stop thinking about. Oh, I went to. Well over the weekend. I didn't do anything. We raced Thursday night at Plymouth. Indiana was a tribute to Bentley. Warren and Stuart was there. Newman was there. We're on those little. The All Star midgets, they call them. I mean, the regular midgets with the Ford Focus engines. Had a great time. We didn't do any good. Hustled back, and we went to the World Outlaw sprint cars. We're at Peebley Friday and Saturday, and Rusty and Barb Bishop, former CEO of Federate, was in town, stayed with us. We went out there and then we gave rides yesterday. We did a play day out there yesterday. So it's been pretty good weekend. Just didn't get to race.

[Herman Schrader]

I have to brag on you. I Witnessed the videos. I know you don't own i55 Federated Auto Parts Raceway park anymore, however you set the template you created. I saw that crowd on Saturday. Wow, it's. It was incredible.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, World Outlaws, you know, that's their event. They do a lot with it. Josh Carroll obviously owns track now and what a surface they had. They, they had the sprint cars and the midgets there Saturday night in all that heat Saturday and never had to redo the track. Didn't take rubber. They were running all over the place. They have really got that track surface figured out. And like we see anywhere, even on the asphalt, you know, track surface, what you're racing on is the key to, key to everything, boy.

[Herman Schrader]

And that's going to be our segue into Iowa. Before we get to do that, I'm going to give a shout out. I went to Kalamazoo Speedway. Kalamazoo, Michigan, had one of the best times ever because on the back straightaway behind the Kalamazoo Speedway, little Kalamazoo was there. Carson Hosar's mother had no idea. I learned so much. She's like Johnny Benson's mom. I don't know what it is about the northern mothers. I mean, even Stuart Friesen's wife races and outrun Stuart this week. But the wives and the mamas, they are the ultimate tomboys. So Carson Hosar's mom runs the quarter midget track and boy, is it beautiful. It is manicured. And saw Kurt Spalding up there, you know, the mod racer and the same. Yeah, he up there with his grandson. So that was number one. But the racetrack is so worn out and we qualified 16th out of 37. We run 12th, but I couldn't get the gas pedal past halfway and. But I had a really good time up there. And we're back home now and. All right, that's enough of me. But what a segue, Kenny. Surface is everything. Changing subjects, everybody. Ty Gibbs wins the NASCAR cup race. I'm just kind of setting the boys up here. Ty Gibbs takes two tires. Kenny and Deets two tires on a wore out surface. Christopher Bell takes four tires. So you're thinking Christopher Bell is going to go blowing right by him. They couldn't get the gas pedal down. The surfaces wore out. Seabell was sideways every time he tried to give it more gas. Kenny, I want to start out with you. When I was growing up as a kid, you taught me there's a thousand spots in that, that gas pedal. Tell me about that.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, Dean Roper taught me that, you know, and that Midget, you know, he said, hey, this is no throttle, this is full throttle. There's a thousand places in between there. You know, it's not just no throttle, full throttle or half throttle. He said, there's a thousand places and no matter what surface you're on or what car, you just, you just give it there till you feel them. Rear tires are not going to take anymore. And because once they're spinning, they're not, they're not going forward. So, you know, we typically see some, some of our better races at those tracks that, that get worn out. When they get worn out, they get wider. The surface, you use more of it, although it didn't look like they were using near all of it yesterday. But, you know, it got plenty wide enough. But there's not just one fastest place like there usually is on new or real good pavement. You know, there's one fastest line here. There's no grip anywhere. So it makes, in my opinion, makes for better racing.

[Herman Schrader]

You know, when we watch the race, Dietz, you could see, you know, that they're saying this is the last race on this pavement and you could visually see why there's tar all over the racetrack. It, it shocked me going into one. Towards the end, a lot of guys were putting their right sides like almost in the tar. And you know, we're taught to really not do that because, you know it's hot. But they were able deets to put that right side right in that tar strip. I don't know what was going on there, but they're going to repave it. So my question, you deets as a race fan, do you want it repaved or do they wait till it falls apart and we have a red flag because asphalt's blown out of the pavement.

[Deets]

Well, that's a tough situation because I've told people all the time it's like they're going to pave hickory during this off season. I don't think Hickory has been paved in at least 30 years. And I think worn out racetracks always put on great races because like Schrader said, you're not locked down on the bottom. But you know, he was also saying they don't use the entire racetrack. Well, part of the reason why is because what's on the very outside, I think from the original pavement, but right there in the middle, they had to repave it. And so they were taking it to the very top of what had been repaved, but they couldn't go beyond that. So one question I would have is like, so if you think about Darlington and Rockingham and how they wore out tires, you could put four new tires on and you'd pick up three seconds. That's what was odd to me about yesterday is. Is how it didn't seem like new tires were that big of a. An advantage, and I think it was because of the old pavement. But like I said, at Darlington and Rockingham, when you put new tires on, it would. It would pick you up for, you know, five or 10 laps.

[Herman Schrader]

I think we saw the same thing at Wilkesboro, where the track is so damn slippery, you will just bust your ass in a heartbeat, you know, and the new tires don't last that long. Like, you know, like they all say, it's like a cheese grater. You put the new tires on, they last so many laps, and great strategy, and they put a stopwatch to it, and they said, okay, Ty, I think we can get away with rights because the lefts don't have that many laps on it. Kenny, I want to go to you something that surprised me, and I want to talk about driver etiquette at the end of that race, and I want to give credit to Brad Keselowski. He's the. He's great. He's won everything. I mean, look, he's won a lot. He's a champion. At the end of that race, he was being lapped, and he did not give way. He raced them like the leaders are coming up. You know, usually you kind of pull down because, I mean, Christopher Bell was right on. You know, Ty gives.

[Capital One Announcer]

But

[Herman Schrader]

help me understand. What do you think the philosophy of Brad Keselowski was right there?

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, how many laps to go was that?

[Herman Schrader]

That was it. Coming to the checker. It was like, whoa. Maybe he was pissed. That's my philosophy. Maybe Brad was mad he was getting lapped, but he literally raced him into three.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, we're racing, you know, now, you know, I don't. I don't. I mean, there's. That's. That's what we're supposed to do is race. Yes. Sometimes you pull over and let them go. They're racing for the lead. I saw the last little bit. Christopher made that run with what, 11, 12 laps to go or something? Kind of got up on his right rear a little bit, and then, you know, I mean, it was going to take. It was going to take a whole lot for Christopher to get around him because he just didn't look like he had it. So.

[Deets]

I don't know, like a bumper.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah,

[Deets]

yeah, right.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. Yeah. You're going to Bump your teammate. Well, we see that. We've seen that a lot of times. But wait a minute. We're going to bump your teammate who is your owner's grandson? I don't know. I don't know if that's a smart decision. Are the team's going to run 1 2. I mean, I. By no means. If Christopher could have passed him the way you're supposed to, I'm sure, you know, he couldn't catch him. You know that. Two races for Ty this year. We talked about Ty and how much better he's getting. He's won two races already. He's been right there. He's. He's doing a. He's doing a great job. And people can say whatever they want about the grandson, whatever. Someone's got to turn that wheel and work those pedals and he's the only one in that car and he's getting it done. As far as we. I got off sub there. As far as Brad, hey, he's racing. I just soon finished on the lead lap to not. So if you pull. If you let them go, okay. If you race their ass off, that's okay, too.

[Herman Schrader]

So for anybody thinking that Christopher maybe should have popped him, well, he couldn't because Brad Kozlowski was there. You're going to dive in. You're going to. But anyway, it just. It just kind of caught me off guard and I just wanted to discuss that.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, I got. I got. Just for the show, I got one thing that I really like. We're repaving that track, right?

[Herman Schrader]

Yep.

[Kenny Schrader]

What's that? What's that tell us?

[Herman Schrader]

They're going back.

[Kenny Schrader]

They're going back.

[Herman Schrader]

They're going back to Iowa.

[Kenny Schrader]

Not just for a year.

[Herman Schrader]

And that is in my notes. Okay, let's go right there. Before we get to Christopher Bell and Denny, let's. I like this. This is an audible and I don't mean this in any way, but good. They sell that track out, they sell Wilkesboro out. And we've talked about this before, but now we've got a lot of examples of this. It just makes NASCAR look so good when we sell out a 25 or 30,000 seat racetrack, you know, and then all the hubbub and on the opposite, you just can't get people to understand that Bristol and Indianapolis seat hundreds of thousands. And so when there's 70,000 people at Indy, it's like, oh, the sport is failing. But, boy, that was a good look, you know, with 30,000 seats sold out, it's just a mind warp.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

What do you think that?

[Kenny Schrader]

I think that this Saturday night, right down the road at Knoxville, they'll be right around that same number of people, you know, for the sprint car race. So it's a racy part of our country, more open wheel than anything, but a lot of. A lot of good racing up there. And yes, it looks good. Anyway, now, we had this discussion a couple of weeks ago. Myself, I'd rather be racing in that big city with 70,000 people and that skyline of the city in the background. I think it's better, but it's also cool to go to those places that, you know, have half the seating and fill it up and, you know, I don't know, the thing. Big thing. And I guess TV numbers will tell us more than anything. TV numbers. And the poll. The poll to see what everybody thought of the race. But yeah, I mean, I look like I say I'm a supporter. It's. We're not on life support. Like I heard mentioned by somebody before.

[Herman Schrader]

All right. Was Iowa a good race? 60%. Literally 6.

[Kenny Schrader]

0.

[Herman Schrader]

60% yes. 40% no. So that's a big win because we know anything over 50 is good. Of course we want more. But I want to say this. My opinion is that right now optics are everything, and it just looks good. I'd rather, you know, the Daytona 500 is sold out at a hundred thousand. I'd rather us, you know, and they easily have taught us. They take the grandstands down. That's what they do. They, they take them down everywhere. It just looks so good when you got 50,000 or less seats and it's sold out. So.

[Deets]

But besides that, it's a supply and demand thing, and it, it makes that ticket more valuable, makes you have to buy it earlier. And if I'm not mistaken, I think they said yesterday that they're going Back to Iowa July 3rd and 4th is. Where is when that race is going to be next year. So the cup race will actually be on July 4th because it's on a Sunday.

[Herman Schrader]

That is another audible. Okay, everybody, we're going to go back to Denny Hamlin and Christopher Bell, but let's, let's keep going right there. What is NASCAR doing? I have never, in the history of NASCAR, I've never watched them release the schedule for next year, 20, 27. They're. They're releasing it one racetrack at a time. Does anybody have a theory on that? You know, usually it's dead secret, and maybe you might hear it from a friend, but they have released like six dates already. But not the whole schedule.

[Deets]

About 12, actually.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, that's new.

[Kenny Schrader]

That's been done in the past. Yeah, they've done that in the past. There's, you know, there's those question mark ones. Obviously there's still. There's still some of them, but that's. That's been done in the past. They just slide something out about next year's tickets. You want to get them now, and season ticket holders and stuff. But, yeah, I don't think that's a big, big change.

[Deets]

I think that part of what that deal is, too, is like what Schrader saying is I think there's some real up in the air. I think they really want to go to Chicago, but obviously to the street course, but obviously that's not worked out. So I think that that's part of what the issue is this year, I would think. I think that probably they've got a deadline. Like, we got to get this worked out by September 1st and whatever the date is. And if we don't, then we gotta move on to something else.

[Herman Schrader]

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[Kenny Schrader]

Like what?

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[Kenny Schrader]

So I wouldn't have to buy a new phone?

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[Deets]

Nice.

[T-Mobile Representative]

Find your reason@t mobile.com

[Herman Schrader]

via virtual prepaid guard card. Typically takes 15 days after rebate submission price guarantee on Talk, text and 5G data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. Oh, no. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away. All through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts. That could make all the difference. Save up to 30% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. Okay, let's go back to the race. But we did. That was good stuff right there. Okay. This is just fun. This is just fun. Christopher Bell has his seventh second place finish. Kenny. As a race car driver, I have. I didn't win a lot. I only won nine Xfinity races. I never won a cup race. But I guess for somebody like Christopher Bell, who is a winner, if you finish second seven, you know, seven times he gives his interviews and he's like, well, I just didn't get the job done. I know I'm no good. I mean, I. Man, I understand. That's hard of him, but, boy, as Earnhardt used to say to me, herman, take those second place finishes that will win you a championship. What's your thoughts, Kenny?

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, fifths and sixth will win you a championship. But, no, I mean, yeah, you know, everybody wants to win or buying local. We're buying a pit pass at the local dirt track. I'm dead set. I'm gonna win that race. They tell me I can't, and I want to run second, you know, I mean, that's the next best you can do. Yes. It would be aggravating, frustrating. But you get on that plane to go home, you don't feel like you did if you finished 15th lap down, you know. You know, you're right there. You're right there. You're beating on it. If you just get a little something, and you know, the little something is in the organization because it was your teammate in front of you. So it. I'd feel pretty good.

[Deets]

This chase plays well to point them to death. And that's what Matt Kansas did in 2003. He pointed them to death. He won one race that year. He pointed them so bad that they created the Chase.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Deets]

They didn't like that. And I'll tell you, if Christopher Bale, you know, you sit here and you look at that. Hamlin and Blaney and some of these guys. But Christopher Bell could go in there and he could point them to death, and he could win it without winning a race. But the championship.

[Stephen Dubner]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

And listen, I'm not Larry McReynolds. I don't remember everything, but didn't Christopher Bell win, like two or three in a row early in the year?

[Deets]

Not this year. Last year.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay. Last year. Yeah. While the years go by fast. Hey, Kenny. I think of the great Dick Trickle. Trickle won a thousand short track races, one of the greatest in our era. And Trickle said, my boy, you won second.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Now, this is Dick Trickle philosophy. He says, that guy in third really wanted your spot. You win win positions, you win every spot. I loved it.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, they pay. It pays. Every spot pays different when you go down there.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. And if winning's the only thing, we're all in trouble.

[Kenny Schrader]

We're all in trouble.

[Herman Schrader]

Not everybody's Michael Jordan, you know. Okay, switching subjects, everybody. Something happened after the race that I want to talk about. It was really interesting. Denny Hamlin was being interviewed after the race, and I'M going to quote him. He says, I've never felt beat before the race started. He knows his equipment guys, and he said he had no brakes. The pedal was super soft in practice. And they put no new master cylinders, calipers. They didn't put anything new on the car. Now this is what Denny said. He said, I've never in my racing career felt beat before this race started. But he says, I thought to myself, and this is what was funny, Kenny, because we talked about this like at Dover back in the day. Denny said, he says, I thought if enough guys could wreck out. He said it and then he said, you know, if I could just finish. But because the track was slippery, letting off the gas early, not using the break, he finished a fifth. He said, you know, he had to really manipulate the car to manage a fifth place finish. But we, we have. I mean, I've started races like, oh, I'm just miserable. I'm like, oh my God, this is gonna be a long day. And we've started. We talked about that during driver introduction. Hey, Schraders, how, how's your car gonna be a long day? Just speak to Denny saying, I've never felt beat before a race started.

[Kenny Schrader]

You know, he obviously felt beat. But as close as those teams are and as competitive as the series is, I really doubt that it was a 25th place car that he managed to hustle to fifth. It couldn't have been that bad. I mean, you just can't do it anymore. So I don't know. But that's not, that's not the way you want to start today, that's for sure. Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

And I'll talk about it this way. Both of us have raced a lot, and when you go for that brake pedal, you want the pedal there. And when it goes almost to the floor, it's not a good feeling. And Denny said that, you know, they, they did everything known to man and could not get that soft brake pedal fixed. And so it plays on us drivers minds when you don't have a good brake pedal to start a race and going into it knowing it's not and you're on the line, you push it like, oh, I hope the brake pedals hard.

[Deets]

You know.

[Herman Schrader]

Gentlemen, start your engines in. The pedal still soft.

[Deets]

You know, what was odd to me though was NASCAR would not let him change the pad. And I think it was Lator that tried to explain it yesterday. And I sort of understood what he was talking about. He was saying that the parts that NASCAR lets you change, you know, after practice or qualifying are the parts that everybody's got because there's, there's, with this corridor there's a lot of common parts and like. But the brake pad is not one of them. And NASCAR's view of it is, is we don't want somebody bringing R and D. We don't want you R and D and at, at the track. And we don't want to start the press that of people creating R D cars just to bring to the racetrack to, to interchange parts and things like that. And I thought that was a little bit odd.

[Herman Schrader]

They really want this car the same. And I know there's small adjustments you can make. I'm, I'm not an idiot. I do know that there's difference in shocks and shim stacks but boy, they are dead set on everybody's stuff being the same, which is. Okay, that's, that that's my answer to you, Dietz, is they're dead set on everybody's car being the same except for the minute adjustments which I just said.

[Deets]

But you know what? I'll throw this one out there for the old school fans and you guys both know it. Greg Sachs, the only race he ever won was an R and D car he won at Daytona in 1985. And in 1985, nobody was winning on super speedways except Bill Elliot. And they managed to do that with that, that 10 car to Greg. I don't know how legal it was, but it was legal enough that it passed inspection.

[Herman Schrader]

So Kenny, they NASCAR later, you know, years later, NASCAR hired Gary Nelson who was the crew chief on that car because they thought, you know, Gary's a good cheater or he works in the gray area. Let's hire that guy. You know, it's like anything, anybody that can manipulate anything, they're like, let's hire him. He knows how to get around. Yeah, I see, I see Gary a lot. We've done good. We, we talked about Iowa for a half hour. Makes me happy. NASCAR president Steve o' Donnell and I listen, I'm breaking my arm. Oh, I'm breaking arm because I was right. I said Steve o' Donnell told me on Kenny conversation that I just want to fix the sport. I want everybody to be happy. And he's one of us is what he told us because he's been there over 30 years. NASCAR President Steve O' Donnell makes everybody happy by in a strange way, shortening the races. He said, now I'm going to give the numbers. We go green flag and let's say lap 60, the stage ends. So the new Rule is, if there is a caution 10 laps before the stage ends, that's it. Because at Indy, this, we had a caution two laps before the stage ends. We have this long caution, then they go green flag for two laps, then we have another caution. Took 50 minutes. I didn't know this, but it took 50 minutes to run two laps in Indy. So everybody complained about it. And like on day four of complaints, and this was odd, Steve o' Donnell gets in front of the camera, Kenny, and does a video and announces it. I like that leadership. Kenny, just your thoughts on that new leadership.

[Kenny Schrader]

I just think there's a bunch of good people up there right now that

[Deets]

are

[Kenny Schrader]

using a lot of common sense. Not that we didn't before, but are just using common sense and listening, listening to spectators, the track people, the competitors, making some changes. I mean, that's. That makes all kinds of sense right there. If it's right at the stage break, make it the stage break, you know, plus, it throws another little question mark in there for the teams to deal with as far as strategy. So, hey, some of these stages are really tighter in fuel now. Now, say we were going to be okay in that second stage, but the first stage ended 10 laps earlier. Now, now what do we do? Now we're going to have to maybe pit to have enough fuel for the second stage. So I, I like it, but it makes sense because I know one of the things that aggravates me some is it seems like when the yellow comes out, you got time to get up and do something because the yellows are just too long. And that's something that they're working on.

[Herman Schrader]

Dale Earnhardt Jr. This is an audible. Everybody listening to Kenny made me think. Dale Earn, our junior on the off week, had a. A roundtable. And I've heard about this because Chris Blair, you know, the general manager at the Worldwide Technology, told me about it. NASCAR hires a company that. I don't know if there's a laser out there or what, but they measure the footsteps of people at the racetracks. That way they can better understand what people are doing so they can serve the customers better. Jeff Burton said that to contrary belief. These fans like these stage breaks because they get up, they go to the bathroom, they buy their, you know, beer, their food, and that for the amount of people that say, we don't like the stage breaks. Jeff Burton, if you go back and listen to that, he says it, and then you see Marcus Smith nod yes, up and down, because they have those analytics, and I don't know what Company that does that. But I just thought that's pretty incredible to measure people's behavior at the racetrack. Like they're ready to get up at that stage break and go. Go to the bathroom and get their food and their beer. Pretty cool. I like that.

[Kenny Schrader]

I got, I got, I like stage breaks. I tell everybody that. I mean and I get. A lot of people hate them stages. I said, hey, it's two yellow flags that you know when are coming now we gotta, we gotta make the yellow flag not take as long as it takes sometimes. But that's all it is. It's two yellow flags when that you know when it's coming. And some of our races, yeah. Have needed a yellow flag. Now I don't need a yellow flag because it's boring. Although it you not. That's boring. What we don't have that we used to have. We don't have engines blowing up like they used to. We don't have rear end gears braking like they used to. We don't have the amount of blown tires that we used to. We don't have guys running into each other as much as they used to. It just, you know, I, I like them. The sport changes. It just every, everything changes. You just got to get over it. You got to decide you're either going to embrace the new way or, you know, watch something else. You know, obviously we don't want you to watch something else. But all those other sports, they're changing too. You know, maybe not as much, but it's, it's always change. It's inevitable it's going to happen. But I, I like the stages and

[Herman Schrader]

Dietz, that's the highlight of the show right there. That's the one. And here's why.

[Kenny Schrader]

What I really like the old days. Yes. And what I really like is the way they reward those guys with those points for their finish in them stage. So it's got, let's say the first stage break is, you know, it's 400 lap race and they break in at 100 and 200, then they're going to run the last 200. But it's got them racing a lot harder for that first hundred laps and it's got them racing a lot harder for that second hundred laps to get those points. And they're already racing hard the second half because they want to win damn race. They're just racing harder all the time.

[Herman Schrader]

And, and I love this. And here's why I miss the old days. They don't blow motors up, they don't run into Each other. Because you're right, Kenny. You know, you might hit on something right there. The engineering is so good now. You know, years ago we had catastrophic motor failure because of cylinder heads or cast iron. Well, they would crack and then the water would get in the oil and I mean, the motors fire and we just don't have that anymore. And yeah, I like what you just said. Yeah.

[Deets]

Let me, let me give you a couple of things based on this discussion. You know, you were talking about NASCAR's leadership. I think part of the problem we got into in the last 15 or 20 years is that the race became an afterthought. It was everything else around the race and how can we make money selling this and doing this and doing that? Because the race was. Was so successful that let's, let's figure out where we need to go and what we need to do and all this kind of stuff. But they weren't thinking about the race necessarily. That's changed their. They're back to thinking about the race and how we can make the race better. The other thing that I want people to know, and I thought about this yesterday when we were watching the race. So that race yesterday was the Iowa Corn 350. It was 350 laps.

[Herman Schrader]

Oh, I love it.

[Deets]

306.25 miles. It was 2 hours, 57 minutes and 49 seconds. I will go back to what I have said for 15 years. And we talked a little bit about it last week. I think the schedule should be shorter and I think the races should be shorter.

[Herman Schrader]

Should be like Iowa.

[Deets]

Whether it's 50 or 100 laps, 50 or 100 miles, rip it off, take it off. And if it's a 400 mile race, I don't care, get rid of it. And you don't change the Daytona 500, you don't change the coat 600, you don't change the Southern 500. Anything beyond that. I think so Fair game. Including Talladega.

[Herman Schrader]

You know, as rough as you sound right there, I gotta tell you, when I. Yeah, you sound a little rough, but hopefully they don't edit this out. And that's why, because I had a conversation with Steve o' Donnell and I said, steve, our sport changed so much. We went to California and he stopped me and he said, and the car we took to California was not the right car for a California speedway. Steve o' Donnell said that during Kenny conversation. So, you know, you just say it. And Steve o' Donnell said, when we were doing all that, we forgot about the car. The car was meant for, you know, was built and we made it and then when we took it to these big old tracks, you know, Steve said that I thought, wow, you know, my

[Deets]

wife is, I'm sorry to interrupt, you know, you talking about, it sounded harsh, blah, blah. And my wife has told people over the years and she told me to make sure to tell my 12 year old's flag football team. It comes out, he's got a deep voice and he's loud and it can kind of sound abrasive and harsh, but he does not mean it that way. So I appreciate you saying that.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, no, well, when you were listening, I thought Steve o' Donnell said that just nicer.

[Deets]

Yeah, right.

[Kenny Schrader]

Kenny, you're the, you're the baseball guy. Okay, that's nine innings, right? Nine, nine innings.

[Deets]

So

[Kenny Schrader]

I know every once in a while they have these marathon games. I mean, what's a marathon game? How many innings is it?

[Herman Schrader]

I mean, you know, that's a loaded

[Kenny Schrader]

question, but you're right, they have these marathon games. Now obviously, obviously they're real close, otherwise the game would be over. It may be 0, 0 or 1 to 1, probably not 15 to 15, but whatever it is, I've seen videos of those things and they show them at the end of that marathon game, which is still real close, there, nobody there. They left.

[Herman Schrader]

And let me say this, every sport, the NFL, the NHL, everybody is speeding everything up. So when you go there, it just does not resonate with a couple people that, you know, they think wrong because, and here's why, because baseball used to go 1720 innings, couldn't get anybody score. So you know what baseball did, they said, okay, it's nine innings, the score is tied. To speed this up, to figure out a winner, we're all going to put a runner on second base automatically. That way a base hit scores that guy. You look at the NFL, they come out with the two point conversion. You know, every sport has changed because like you said, every sport can become, oh my God, will you just finish this thing already?

[Deets]

College football, College football would go some, they had some games go six and seven overtimes. And that was even with putting the ball on the 25 yard line and having four downs to score. So to avoid that, I think the first couple of overtimes, they're like, you could kick an extra point or you could take a two point conversion, but after that you have to take a two point conversion. And the whole reason they did that was to, was to speed it up. And I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is a 500 mile race, okay? See how long that is? Point A to point B. You make it a 350 mile race. Point A to B is shorter. That means it's lit. It's, it's, it's a shorter amount of time, but it's also a shorter distance for the cars to get spread out. Yeah, gotta race harder.

[Herman Schrader]

I like that. Sometimes it's like kindergarten. Everybody. Okay, we got some other good stuff to talk about here. But in ending, Good job. NASCAR president Steve o' Donnell shorted the races without shortening the races.

[Deets]

I've been very, very impressed. I'll tell you, man. I think that this is the best leadership group that the sports had in close to 30 years, 25 at least.

[Stephen Dubner]

Hey there, it's Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. And we have just made a new show, a TV talk show. It's called Better in Person. We have the kind of guests you don't see on every other show. And we have the kind of conversations you don't hear anywhere.

[Kenny Schrader]

Frank. I'm like, yes, chef.

[Herman Schrader]

Be one with the pork.

[Kenny Schrader]

You have the opportunity to make this little corner of the world into your ideal world, your dream world.

[Stephen Dubner]

You can watch Better in Person on the Freakonomics YouTube channel. You'll find a new episode there every week.

[Herman Schrader]

This is how a conversation works.

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[Herman Schrader]

Something I saw that Adam Stern talked about. Adam Stern is that quality reporter. He said the Ford Motor Company said it's going to start building the four door Mustang, adding a variant to the pony car. And there. And I have a, I have a reason for this and I'm going to tell you everything that. But let's go back to that. It's because Haas said they're going to add another car in the O'Reilly series, which I think that's good. But, you know, we don't see,

[Kenny Schrader]

you

[Herman Schrader]

know, in other words, like, it's like prices are high, but we don't see, we don't see people pulling back. You know, I was traveled all week. Everything is packed everywhere. And it's, it's Wild because prices are high, but everybody's going hard. So Ford more Ford motor company said it's going to build a four door Mustang and I think, I think that has a lot to do with, you know, a hot rod. But it's four door. Kenny, you're a car guy. You've got lots of cars. You know, that's cool. I guess it's got to do with our sport a little bit.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, I'm more into four door trucks.

[Herman Schrader]

Well, you just bought one. I like your new truck. It is four door.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. I'm not, I mean I'm not up on the car deal. It's hard for me to believe a four door Mustang, but obviously they're going to do it. Hell, we ran four door cup cars, you know, wait with the Taurus for years.

[Herman Schrader]

That's why we did this conversation.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. That was a four door car.

[Herman Schrader]

It was not a race car.

[Kenny Schrader]

You know, GM or Ford did not build a two door Taurus. I'm aware of. I'm sure they didn't. But they ran them as a cup

[Herman Schrader]

car and that's why we brought that up. Kenny Schroeder reminds us that we did race four doors very successfully. Oh yeah, that's good stuff. Okay. Hey, it's, it's a show. I always got to remind you that. Okay. And back to Haas. Obviously Stuart Haas is gone. Tony Stewart peeled out. He's hanging out with Schrader at, you know, Ford Focus Midget motors. That was a good one, huh? For Focus Just one night.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah, yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

Built by Ford, Ford Focus motors of it. Tony is drag racing. So now it's called Haas factory. Haas factory said they're going to add a new O'Reilly team next year with driver Dean Thompson. And you know, I called, I'm going to give her credit. I called the NASCAR media center. I talked to Candace Spencer. I said, Candace, is the trajectory of NASCAR going up? You know, and they're going to be negative if they can because they got to see it the way they see it. She says NASCAR's going up. So the NASCAR media is saying NASCAR is headed up. And also Brad Keselowski wanted to get another charter and start another cup team. But it just shows how healthy our sport is. People are adding and if they're, and if they're taking away, they're selling it to somebody that wants it. I think that just speaks good, Kenny, to your buddy over there at Haas, the bean counter, Mr. Custer. They're adding, adding an O'Reilly car. That's good for the sport.

[Kenny Schrader]

That'll make what, three Fords? I mean, Ford's a little behind on the. Over in the O'Reilly side.

[Deets]

No, no, no.

[Herman Schrader]

Chevrolet.

[Deets]

Yeah. Cause they switched to Chevy.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, yeah, we kind of. I'm sorry about that. I mixed both stories together.

[Kenny Schrader]

Okay.

[Herman Schrader]

You know, there's two different stories, but I should have said switching subjects. But still, Kenny, the point is, anytime I got an opportunity to tell people, look, Peevely was sold out. Florence, Kentucky was sold out. And look at nascar. They're adding teams. That's a good thing. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, that's a good thing, everybody. Haas factory adding another O'Reilly team. So the doom and gloom is greatly exaggerated. It's not. People want to build NASCAR teams. It. It's like Mikey Waltrip said, not everybody can just buy an NFL team. It is the big time.

[Deets]

Hey, and don't forget that I think they're called Viking motorsports. But that 96 and 99, that, that Anthony Alfredo and Parker Wretchloff are racing in O'Reilly series. That's a new team. And Parker wrestler has got a good shot of making the Chase. So I mean, they're, they're cut. You got to start somewhere, whether it's the trucks, whether it's the O'Reilly series. But you know, you could see these teams eventually graduate the cup too.

[Herman Schrader]

The business model is so bad that people are lining up to buy a team. How's that? Okay, switching subjects. Kenny, this is right up your alley. Chase Briscoe is making that NASCAR money. So he acquires Brent Marks racing for high limit dirt sprint cars. So like Casey Kane or you know, Tony Stewart, you know, we see those cup drivers spending their money, paying it forward. Going back to dirt racing, Chase Briscoe acquires Brent March racing for High Limit. It's got to make you happy.

[Kenny Schrader]

Did I read someone else was involved with him on that deal too? It said retired driver. I just read Brent Mars. Okay, well, anyway, I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't be no more dirt background than Chase Briscoe. You know, Indiana boys, whole family, sprint cars forever. Makes me happy. You know, he's. I mean, he played with his own stuff and he's running stuff at the Chili bowl, which I'm pretty sure was his own stuff too, to see him get involved in ownership. I mean, the sprint car deals healthy right now with the World Outlaws and the High Limit series sure appear to be running in front of big, big crowds with good car counts. With those series split up, you know, it's taken a little bit away from every race. Just a little bit. But it's also brought a lot more teams into the fold because you didn't have to run against every one of them hitters every night. They're kind of split up, too, but there's still plenty of them that they're having great races.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah. And as you taught me, they all High limit and World of Outlaws, they all come together, you know, a couple times a year here we got the Knoxville nationals. They'll all be together, you know, the King's Royal. So couple times a year, they all still come together.

[Deets]

And that's again, what would. Dirt racing is working, right? Lucas Oil and World outlaws is the same way with the dirt late models. Yeah. Florence. Yeah. And I think people thought when high limit started oil, we got this competitor against world outlaws and it's going to split everybody up and blah, blah, blah. But they work together again. Go back to it. That's the problem with pavement racing. Pavement racing. Somebody starts something and it works. Instead of somebody coming along to be a partner, to be a companion, they want to start and they want to compete against them. So they split the field. Lot of reasons that dirt's working in pavement. Short track racing is not working. And that's one of them.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, one last thing before we go dirt racing. You know, I'm just going to do a Darrell Waltrip thing here, a cliche. We. We saw Tyler Redick win, what, four in a row, cup races. And then for as good as he was doing, it went downhill. He wrecked out again at Iowa. Now the opposite is happening for Carson kwapple in the O'Reilly Auto Parts Series. Carson Kwapple wins his second O'Reilly race in a row. And I think this is fantastic. And here's why. Because as we talked about last week, Dale Jr. Said, you know, Dale Jr. Was crying. Remember, Dale Jr. Started crying, tears coming out of his eyes because he knew that Carson was on the hot seat. And he said, carson, I want you to stare, but you got to win, okay? You got to keep me. Now, two in a row for Carson kwapple and hell of a win. Great driving, great focus. You know, he was being hounded by drivers on a green white checker, and he did it. And they were side by side. He showed everything that you ever want out of a driver, Kenny. Just your thoughts on Carson getting it done.

[Kenny Schrader]

It's nothing being like on that hot seat that'll motivate you. You know that. That'll do it. He's obviously got a lot of Talent. He's showing it now, and it just every, you know, it's not just him driving the thing. It's. It's got to be working a little better. It's got to be handling a little better. They getting in now, the pits a little better, whatever. It's a combination. So they're just, they're gelling at the right time, fortunately.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, Boy. And I go back to those old days where this is just fun. Everybody you look at like Joe Gibbs, you know, and I think of Bill Elliott, Bill Elliot would say, timing and circumstances. So Joe Gibbs fires Joey Logano. Roger Penske says, I'll take them three championships later.

[Deets]

And, you know, the thing I love about those Qualpa boys, Carson in O'Reilly series, but his younger brother Caden in the. In the late model is. I don't know any other way to say it. It's a very country way of saying it, but those boys were raised right.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, they're workers.

[Deets]

Travis his. His wife. Then you got Dale Junior's owner. Rodney Childers is the crew chief on that one car. And Travis posted a photo. I saw that two days after Indianapolis, and Caden that night had won it. Langley. And what were they doing? They were working on those cars in the shop two days later. Both are good, humble kids. Travis was a humble guy, and I like seeing kids come along that didn't go out there and wreck 20 cars before they won their first race. They, they took their lumps, they raised clean, and they're being rewarded for.

[Herman Schrader]

Kenny, anything else? No, no, Carson.

[Kenny Schrader]

They, they, they got it right for mom and dad.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, 100%. Congratulations to the Quaffle family, everybody. And one great thing about social media is, is the dad took that picture. You know, he, he said, look at my boys. They just got done winning the biggest races of their life, and they're, they're. They in the old. They're in the, oh, late model shop.

[Deets]

You know, I mean, the best compliment I could give them is my oldest son will turn 16 on Wednesday, and my youngest son's about 12 and a half. And I told Travis this last week, I hope my boys grow up as good as those two boys have. They're not perfect, but they're just good boys.

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[Herman Schrader]

Okay, everybody, we have come to the end of the show. Dirt racing and junky jokes. By the way, jokes is funny, but if you had the word junkie before. Everybody's tagged on any more junkie jokes. But Kenny, I know you got plenty material. If you don't, I'll take over. But I know it. Tell me about this dirt racing.

[Stephen Dubner]

Wow.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, start out at Florence, I guess,

[Deets]

where

[Kenny Schrader]

World Outlaws and Lucas Oil was, you know, that was the, it was Lucas race, but the Outlaws didn't have anything conflicting with it because they don't schedule on top of the premier races from one series to the other. So everybody was there basically and we had cars upside down. We had one out of the ballpark, one flip or two of them turned over. I don't know who all was in it. I went only got seed highlights. We, we had an unbelievable front straightaway wreck. I mean they just kept wrecking and kept wrecking. Dan Ebert's car quit and he's starting like restarting maybe third in line or something double wide and they just kept piling in. But then we had slide Job city at the end and Josh wins and Josh Rice is, you know, local hero there, but runs good nationally obviously. And they said the place went nuts, which was great. And it looked like a fantastic crowd. It was. The King family does a good job there. Hell of an event and it sure lived up to its reputation. The Outlaws were at Pevely and Friday night Chris Wyndham won his first World Outlaws show.

[Herman Schrader]

Big win, big win.

[Kenny Schrader]

Driving for Jason Sides, who had had been 10 years since Jason's car was in victory lane at a World of Outlaw show. So that was big. Then Saturday night, Logan Shuhart withstood some challenges, some good challenges to win the race. They had a fantastic show. Place was packed. We were back here at the house, half hour away by 11 o'. Clock, really good. Last night Larson won the Cappuccini Classic at Knoxville and I think then Saturday night did Little Tim's win at the 360 race at Knoxville because they ran up there Saturday night. There was a lot of big races.

[Herman Schrader]

I want to stop right there, Deets. We talk about this, this is one good thing about nascar. They, in a weird way, you know, we know it's all about the Knoxville nationals, but my son in law took off to a dirt track with, you know, his go karts and I Said, why are they racing on a Monday night? They're racing, you know, this comes out on Wednesday. I said, Brody, he builds Fusion carts. I said, why are they running on Monday night? He goes, herman, it's the Knoxville Nationals. So it is pretty timely that NASCAR kind of kicks off this whole Iowa Knoxville Nationals. But anyway, just. Kenny. Yeah, they're just racing every damn day up there in Iowa, but keep going.

[Kenny Schrader]

Well, I mean, that was the biggest stuff probably, and there was a lot more races, but that's the ones because we were at the track both nights and that's the ones we got to keep up with a lot more regional stuff. But that was pretty big. I mean, Shoeheart won 25 grand at Pevely Saturday night. Did I see Josh rice and a $75,000 check?

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah, 75,000.

[Deets]

Yeah.

[Herman Schrader]

The North South 100.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. So it's not all bad. They had 80. Yeah, 80 something cars at Knoxville last night. Yeah, boy. That's why I did terrible. I qualified twenties. I don't want.

[Herman Schrader]

I'm telling you, like you, Kenny, I thought about you. Kim and I drove to the Dells and from the Dells around Chicago up to every gas station. I. I don't know what's going on right now. Maybe it's the end of the summer. Maybe the kids are going back. You can't get in a restaurant. You can't. There's 24 pumps. You can't get gas. I mean, you can, but it's like, what in the hell is going on? It is like ants coming out of the ground. Everything was packed this week, even the races. So it's exciting and it's positive.

[Deets]

It's like the bookies in Florence, South Carolina, that damn things got 80 guests. I don't know if it does or not, but it looks like they got 80 gas tanks there and every damn one of them is full.

[Herman Schrader]

How is that possible?

[Deets]

It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. Bucky's. You need to go to a Bucky's just to experience it one time. Just to walk in and to see a gas station. That's. That's like. And listen, part of it's because of the bathrooms. That's why my wife wanted to go, because she had heard about the bathrooms.

[Herman Schrader]

What's about them?

[Kenny Schrader]

They're.

[Deets]

They're very clean. They're. They're closed in. So, like each stall is, Is private. It just, just you gotta go. You gotta go look at a Bucky's.

[Kenny Schrader]

It's an.

[Deets]

But then after you go, sometimes you may. Yeah, it's an attraction. After you go, though, you might say, well, I don't think I'll go back again until it's like one o' clock in the morning. Because, I mean, it's crazy. It is just absolutely crazy in those things.

[Herman Schrader]

Kenny, I counted 100 pumps. My. My, adh, mine. I was at the Buc ee's outside of Daytona Beach, Florida. I counted them. 100 pumps.

[Kenny Schrader]

What, did you multiply or did you count?

[Herman Schrader]

No, I went 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. And I was like, yeah, I could have, but I'm off centered. I'm different. Kenny, if you were to start a business, would you say, I'm going to put it in 100 gas pumps.

[Deets]

Jesus.

[Herman Schrader]

And they're all filled up. Yeah, all filled up.

[Kenny Schrader]

That's because of the stuff that's inside. It's not because there's 100 pumps.

[Herman Schrader]

Yeah.

[Deets]

Brisket. They got good brisket. The banana pudding is good.

[Herman Schrader]

Love it. Oh, this. We should just do a show on life.

[Deets]

I like that you do a show on bookies.

[Herman Schrader]

Why do people do what they do? Okay, we did it. Kenny's got to get out of here. We're at one hour, one minute. Junkie jokes.

[Deets]

Okay, it's one. It's one joke, but it's. It's a little bit longer. Not much longer. I have to credit my boys that I went to high school with. I'm on a group text with those guys. One of them sent it this morning, and I had to read this one to my wife because it really describes things pretty aptly. It says maturing in marriage is realizing that when your husband says he'd do anything for you, he means fighting bad guys and dragons and stuff like that. Not folding clothes and washing dishes.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yeah. So what's the joke?

[Deets]

The joke is, is that you'll joke. You. You'll be a knight and shining armor and you'll try to kill dragons and all this kind of stuff, but you won't fold clothes and wash dishes for. That's why it's a junkie joke.

[Kenny Schrader]

I want to. I want to see the dragon first.

[Deets]

Yeah, right. Yeah. I've seen some of the stuff in the dishwasher. And that's why I don't like doing the dishes. But I do.

[Herman Schrader]

Is that it?

[Deets]

That's it.

[Herman Schrader]

All right, everybody. Good stuff. Okay. Kenny, what are you doing this weekend?

[Kenny Schrader]

Going play. Dan.

[Herman Schrader]

Yep. You told us. We always end the show the same.

[Kenny Schrader]

No, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Delaware, Ontario, Ashweakan Full Throttle Raceway Merrittville race Merrittville Speedway race next Saturday night one of Pete McNel Merrittville playday Ransomville Utica Rome Manandak. I don't know if you can say that right. Seekonk, man. How do you say it?

[Deets]

Wow, that Monadnock.

[Kenny Schrader]

Monadnock.

[Herman Schrader]

Out of a southern boy.

[Deets]

How does this sound? He pronounced it Madonka donk one time.

[Kenny Schrader]

What are you doing?

[Herman Schrader]

Good stuff, Kenny. Okay, shout out to big brother Rusty. He has summons me to come a day early. I'm going to fly into Rapid City, South Dakota as you're watching this show. Rusty right now on this Wednesday is being inducted into the Sturgis Motorcycle hall of Fame. He's been out there 22 straight years. It all started with NASCAR president Mike Helton taking all these NASCAR drivers from Dover their Dover race. And Rusty has continued it every year. Rusty works for the NASCAR foundation and Rusty has been raising well over a half a million a year. So Rusty's getting inducted into the Sturgis Motorcycle hall of Fame today, Wednesday. And then Rusty's ride is Friday at noon. It starts in Deadwood, South Dakota, one hour. Kenny, I started to show you that ride, but we got snowed on at the Cal Petty charity ride. It goes, leaves Deadwood, goes around Spearfish Canyon, comes back. They will auction off motorcycles and good stuff. So I will see everybody in Sturgis all week.

[Deets]

And to give Rusty credit on couple of things, he, he's worked for the NASCAR foundation for at least 20 years because I remember going up and covering something he did down in Daytona and that was around 15 or 20 years ago and designed Iowa Speedway. I think that that always should be mentioned whenever that that race comes around because it's like a big Richmond. But I think it took, he took all the best parts of what makes short track racing great to help create that racetrack. And, and I think he did a wonderful job with it.

[Herman Schrader]

Kenny, I, I gotta tell you this because you'll understand this to the max. I said to Rusty, I said, rusty, you've been so mean forever. You're hardcore. When did you become so soft and start raising money for people? He looked at me, goes, great question. He said, betty, Jane France called me and she said, rusty, will you help the NASCAR foundation out? And Rusty told me, he said, why me? And Betty Jaden France said, rusty, you don't race anymore, so you're not controversial. And Rusty took that to heart and he finds joy. Of all people, Rusty Wallace, he raises millions and millions of dollars and so good job big brother Rusty.

[Kenny Schrader]

Rusty wasn't mean. He was focused.

[Herman Schrader]

Yes, I agree with that. I really do.

[Kenny Schrader]

I really do.

[Deets]

And that could be misinterpreted.

[Stephen Dubner]

Focus.

[Herman Schrader]

And I learned that. I learned that.

[Kenny Schrader]

Yep.

[Herman Schrader]

Okay, everybody, that's it. As I say, if you want to watch us and you want to look at Dietz's, where does that deep voice come from?

[Kenny Schrader]

Look at that smile.

[Herman Schrader]

Tune into the Kenny.

[Deets]

Yeah, that comes from my grandpa. This guy right here.

[Herman Schrader]

There it is. And if you're on the Kenny Wallace YouTube show, you'll see that picture. If you're headed to the next race, Dale Junior's Dirty Mo Media podcast. Until the next Herman Schrader show. Goodbye, everybody.

[Kenny Schrader]

Bye.

[Herman Schrader]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

[Stephen Dubner]

Hey, there, it's Stephen Dubner, host of Freakonomics Radio. And we have just made a new show, a TV talk show. It's called Better In Person. We have the kind of guests you don't see on every other show, and we have the kind of conversations you don't hear anywhere back.

[Herman Schrader]

I'm like, yes, Chef. Be home with the pork.

[Kenny Schrader]

You have the opportunity to make this little corner of the world into your ideal world, your dream world.

[Stephen Dubner]

You can watch Better In Person on the Freakonomics YouTube channel. You'll find a new episode there every week.

[Herman Schrader]

This is how a conversation works. I'm Galen, co founder of Brooklyn solarworks. With my Chase Inc. Business Premier card, I get unlimited 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more, which helps us donate solar panels to community gardens.

[Stephen Dubner]

Real business owner compensated for the participation

[Herman Schrader]

cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank

[Stephen Dubner]

and a member of fdic.

[Herman Schrader]

Subject to credit approval.

[Stephen Dubner]

Terms apply.