Tommy Baldwin: Long Island Racing Royalty

Summary

Podcast Summary: Herm & Schrader – Tommy Baldwin: Long Island Racing Royalty

Host: Kenny Wallace (w/ Ken Schrader referenced)
Guest: Tommy Baldwin
Date: April 23, 2026
Source: SiriusXM, Dirty Mo Media

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Overview

In this electric and deeply personal episode of Herm & Schrader, Kenny Wallace sits down with Tommy Baldwin, a storied NASCAR Cup winning crew chief, team owner, and proud son of Long Island’s racing legacy. The discussion is wide-ranging: from growing up in a legendary racing family, building a career in the heart of NASCAR, to personal setbacks and triumphs. Baldwin opens up about his career-defining decision points, the pressures of the sport, the changing technology of race cars, and his brush with cancer. The tone is honest, irreverent, and emotional—a celebration of racing, family, and the grit it takes to survive in motorsports.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Legacy and Family Roots

• Early Years ([03:05], [20:30])
  • Baldwin describes growing up in Bellport, Long Island, surrounded by racing and his father’s automotive business.
  • “All I wanted to do is hang out with my dad ... I was at Baldwin Automotive pumping gas and checking customers’ oil when I was eight years old.” — Baldwin [20:34]
• Building the Business & Legacy ([24:39])
  • Baldwin discusses sustaining and growing his family’s business after his father's passing, attributing much of his ethics and determination to his father’s example.
  • “I’m big on the legacy stuff ... living off my word. My word’s more important ... if I say something, I’m gonna do it.” — Baldwin [24:39]

2. The NASCAR Climb: Decisions & Sacrifices

• Critical Career Choices & Loyalty ([10:35], [15:02])
  • Mark Martin’s high praise: Martin publicly stated he lobbied hard to get Baldwin as his crew chief, trusting him to “fight for him” in big teams ([09:03]).
  • Baldwin ultimately stayed loyal to Bill Davis Racing over jumping to Jeff Gordon or Mark Martin teams, following advice from his father and considering family implications.
  • “Everything happens for a reason ... did I give up winning some championships in the cup series? Absolutely. But how am I going to trade what I have?” — Baldwin [15:02]
• The New York to Charlotte Move ([39:08])
  • The legendary road trip to Charlotte to “go NASCAR,” loading up with Kevin “Bono” Manion and forming the famous “Camp Chaos” crew house mashed with future racing talent.

3. Mentors, Proteges, and Modified Roots

• Northeast Racing Influence ([17:43], [45:38])
  • Baldwin is deeply proud of how many Northeast racers followed him south, making an indelible mark on NASCAR.
  • “If you look at the tree that I started ... how many people we’ve trained ... That means just as much to me as the success that I’ve had because I know it rubbed off ... everything my dad taught me.” — Baldwin [17:43]
• Memories of Dick Trickle ([47:42], [53:52])
  • Working as a young crew chief for Trickle left a lifelong impact. Baldwin still uses “You have one time during the weekend to scare me. That’s it.” — Dick Trickle to Baldwin [53:52]
  • Shared philosophy: Save the “big swing” for qualifying, not practice.

4. Evolving with Technology and Culture

• Resistance and Adaptation ([58:51], [62:35])
  • Transition from stringing the wheelbase and “poor boy chassis” setups to lasers, wind tunnels, and engineering tools. Sometimes tools (technology) fail, causing friction between old-school racers and engineers.
  • “When the tools don’t work, things don’t start working good anymore ... there was too much conflict between the crew chiefs and the engineers ... but the tools Ray wanted ... weren’t developed yet.” — Baldwin [58:53]
• Reputation: Tough but Fair ([29:53], [31:14])
  • Baldwin recounts an infamous pit altercation with his son Jack—viral in the racing world—explaining that sometimes he’s pushed to the brink, but only when principles and respect are breached.

5. Team Ownership: Heart, Hustle, and Hustle

• Starting Tommy Baldwin Racing ([66:51])
  • Baldwin describes cobbling together his own Cup team post-Bill Davis, leveraging IOUs, risky deals, and sheer willpower.
  • “I don’t have any money, but here’s what I want. If I make the race, I’ll pay you. If I don’t, I’ll give it back ... you got some balls, but let’s do it.” — Baldwin relaying a deal with Marty Gaunt [67:30]
  • The highlight: Leading at Daytona and Talladega with an unsponsored car, shocking the garage.

6. Cancer Battle and Perspective

• Personal Battles ([70:54])
  • Baldwin opens up about his recent cancer bout, his recovery, and how it reshaped his perspective on life, gratitude, and giving back.
  • “It kicked my ass ... but I’m in good shape now ... the oncology place will call me when they’re struggling with a patient ... sometimes I’ll go up there and help them.” — Baldwin [70:54]
• Never Quitting ([72:38])
  • Baldwin circles back to his father’s resilience: “Watch that man every day get up and start over and do it again ... The biggest thing I learned from him.” [72:38]

7. Mentorship and Brotherhood

• Giving Back & Enduring Camaraderie ([17:43], [73:32])
  • Kenny Wallace and Baldwin reflect on surviving NASCAR’s tumultuous decades, maintaining a “positive mental attitude” and passing down learning and inspiration.
  • “You and I are survivors of NASCAR.” — Wallace [72:26]
  • “You gotta keep going, just keep digging. No one cares. Right? No one cares.” — Baldwin [73:24]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Family, Luck, and Racing
  • “I overstepped my coverage ... The whole NASCAR garage area went, ‘Damn, what does Tommy Baldwin got that we don’t have?’” — Wallace on Baldwin’s wife Beth [04:40]
• On Getting Mad in Motorsports
  • “99.9% you’re very pleasant, but everybody knows we’ve all got that spark.” — Wallace, discussing viral Baldwin “headset” meme [32:56]
• On the Underdog’s Fight:
  • “Sometimes you gotta be a little forceful of your dreams, you know?” — Baldwin [70:21]
• On Tools and Crew Chiefs in a Changing NASCAR
  • “It was hard for us racers to comprehend ... especially when the tools weren’t right. Sometimes, some things get taken away, and those tools don’t work as good anymore.” — Baldwin [58:53]
• On Surviving and Thriving:
  • “You and I are certified badasses. And you won a lot ... You will never swallow Tommy Baldwin ... We get up every day and let’s fight. Let’s go again, because you’re not going to get us.” — Wallace [73:32]

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Essential Timestamps

• Tommy Baldwin’s Shop, Family Legacy: [03:05]
• Current Role at Rick Ware Racing: [06:13]
• Mark Martin’s Praise and Near-Defection to Jeff Gordon’s team: [09:03], [10:35]
• Growing Up Baldwin—Long Island Racing Stories: [20:30]
• Mentoring, Modified Racing Lineage: [17:43], [45:38]
• Crew Chief for Dick Trickle, Racing Philosophy: [47:42], [53:52]
• Starting Tommy Baldwin Racing (Cup Team Underdog Story): [66:51]
• Cancer and Recovery: [70:54]
• Racing’s Grit and Getting Back Up: [72:38]

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Structure & Tone

The conversation is rollicking, brash, and deeply affectionate—a story of blue-collar grit, generational pride, and racing’s all-in, never-quit mindset. Tommy Baldwin comes across as both charmingly humble and fiercely uncompromising, always honoring his roots while embracing the changes, challenges, and wild stories of a motorsports life.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

This is a must-listen for fans of racing history, underdog stories, or anyone interested in the human side of NASCAR. From vivid storytelling of New York’s gritty shops to the boardrooms of Cup-level NASCAR, and through personal health battles, Tommy Baldwin’s journey is a testament to perseverance, loyalty, and love for the sport and those around it. It’s funny, raw, and inspiring—racing storytelling at its best.

Transcript

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought to you by i55 Federated Auto Parts Raceway Park, 15 minutes from my house, Pey, Missouri, every Saturday night. We got it going on there, so check us out. I55 Federated Auto Parts Raceway Park. Man, oh man, I am jacked up. As I say, deep breath, everybody. I even created an intro for this man. One of the great racing families of our time and winning cup crew chief, my dear friend, Tommy Baldwin. Tommy, how you doing?

[Tommy Baldwin]

What's up, Kenny?

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, man, I'm so excited.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Did did a Schrader sponsor this deal is the i55 or. What do you get? You get free burgers, passes, what do you get?

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, hey, I love this because this adds to the conversation. So on a serious note, Kenny Schrader and his partner Ray Marler, they had run this racetrack for 30 years. It was great timing. They decided to sell it, and the new owners want to make this racetrack, you know, bigger. You know, they're younger, they got a lot of plans, so they're like, herman, put that on your social media. I said, well, here's what I can do for you.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And a shout out, Tommy, to one of the past owners. Kenny Schrader's partner, Ray Marler, passed away like five months or, well, excuse me, maybe a year later. So Ray Marlowe, one of our friends, he passed away a little after a year. So the timing was right.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay. I would be crazy not to recognize what I see, and that's going to add right into celebrating. Tommy Baldwin, everybody. There he is. That's Tommy Baldwin winning cup crew chief certified badass. And we're going to get to that. Tommy, can you do a panorama just kind of like you did for me earlier? And tell us what look.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, I'm sitting in my modified shop here, and I got my. One of my dad's old cars. Original coupe that he drove in the 70s. Actually, Ray Everham bought it and refurbished it and gave it to me a couple years ago. So it was very nice of him to do that and to look after my dad's legacy. Yeah, it's cool to walk in this place and see that every day. Just, you know, you look at something like that and it gets you going. You know what I'm saying? You know the deal, Kenny. It's just like, yeah, this is what started. Started our life of racing, and let's get after it. So, yeah, we're in the modified shop. We got the kids cars here doing a little rebuilding on Jack's car. And yeah, we're just getting ready for upcoming races coming up.

[Kenny Wallace]

There's an old saying where. Where shall we start? There's so much to the great Tommy Baldwin and Tommy. The great thing about Kenny conversation is that we can just do whatever we want to do.

[Tommy Baldwin]

And we do that, too. We do that, too. On the podcast there,

[Kenny Wallace]

brother, Rusty Wallace would say, okay, edit all that up. Make us look good.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, sometimes they try to edit it and make us look crazy, you know, but it is what it is.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, everybody. Tommy Baldwin from. Is it Bellport, New York? Is that where you're from?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, Bellport, Long island, New York. Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Beautiful wife, Beth. I remember when she was a Winston trophy girl. Man, you got lucky there.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I overstepped my coverage. They should say, right? That was that what they say, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

I think the whole NASCAR garage area went, damn, what does Tommy Baldwin got that we don't have? Wife Beth, sons Jack and Luke. Is that all right?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, we got Tommy iii, the oldest and. And then jamin as well. So we got 33 to 19, all boys. Just had our first grandchild. The a baby girl. So.

[Kenny Wallace]

Man, that will change your life.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Hell, yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

I have a good racing friend named Terry Phillips. He's the son of the great Larry Phillipson. And Terry jokes with me, goes herman, if I'd have known grandkids would have been this good, I'd have skipped my kids.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, exactly. That's what everyone says.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, listen, we're gonna gloss over something Then we're gonna go back to New York. Everybody. Crew chief and owner of Tommy baldwin racing right now, Competition director, Crew chief for Rick royer racing.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Not crew chief, just competition director.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, competition director. And let's talk about that just for a minute before we start at the beginning. I was at Austin, Texas, circuit of the america. And, you know, I go in there to do trackside live. I do some events at about 11 cup tracks. And there you were. You know, one thing that made me happy is you just. You just look happier now. You were up on Rick ware's toolbox, you know, pit cart before it all started. Tell me how that all come together where you're at right now.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Well, I mean, it's. You know, I was on my way of semi retirement about three years ago. I was having a lot of fun driving up and down the northeast, racing modifieds and winning races and winning championships all over the place. I mean, having a good time. And, you know, Rick kept asking me, you know, hey, you know, I need your help. I need you to come on board, straighten my cup program out and do the things. And, you know, I know you're. You're one of, you know, probably a handful of guys that can come in and just straighten things out, you know, and, you know, I need your help. And he just kept pressing. And one day, him and Robbie Benton himself came to the modified shop and sat down with me, and we made a deal to do it. And, you know, he's given me a little lifeline still to be able to run the modifieds when I can. If it. When it doesn't, you know, totally interrupt what needs to be done with the cup program. So it all worked out. You know, we're. We're having fun. You know, this cup series is no joke now, man, it's. It's the hardest. Hardest it's ever been since I've been involved in a Sport in over 30 years. So, yeah, it's just. It's good. We got a really good race team. Got a strong group of. Strong group. Good, good people from top to bottom, Whether it be on the cup side, to the late model side, to. You know, he's got nhra, he's got motorcycle teams. You know, he's. He does a lot. And people ask, well, why doesn't he concentrate on one thing? Well, he doesn't for the marketing reasons. Right. It brings a sponsor a whole bunch of different, you know, areas to work on to develop their products. So, you know, on that aspect, he's smart. And the other aspect Is he. You know, he puts good people in charge of those different teams so we can worry about the end goal, you know?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Rick Ware racing blows my mind. I met everybody down there at Circuit of the America, and. And then I zoned in one day, and I'm like, my Lord, this man can chew gum and walk better than anybody I've ever seen. I couldn't. You know me. My dad would get mad at me because I'd go to Cracker Barrel and I'd eat my pork chop, then I'd eat my corn, then I'd eat. But, God, can he chew gum? And he can do that. Can he, Tommy?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how he just laid his life on the line to be able to get to this point. I couldn't do it. I mean, I. I had it looking in front of me. I mean, it was there, and I folded, you know, I really did. I just couldn't take. I couldn't take the politics anymore, you know? I couldn't.

[Kenny Wallace]

We're gonna get there. We're gonna get there, Tommy.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. Okay. So I. You know, I just couldn't take it. And then, you know, he did, and, you know, hopefully he's gonna be. Well, he is gonna reap the benefits on the. On the end of the day, and, you know, he's got a lot of good things going on right now, and, yeah, I'm happy for him.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, everybody, there he is, the great Tommy Baldwin, NASCAR winning cup crew chief. We're going to get to all that, and we're having a good time coming up to date. I saw Tommy down there at Circuit of the American. I thought, man, there he is. And he's always been good to me, and thank you for doing this, Tommy. Okay, listen, I'm gonna have fun with this, but it's truth. You know, there's an old commercial that says, when E.F. hutton talks, everybody listens. So when Mark Martin talks, everybody listens. And I said, oh, this is a great reminder for me to call Tommy up right now, because I was going to do that, you know, a month ago. So Mark Martin comes on your show door bumper clear over there on Dirty Mo Media. And this is part of Dirty Mo Media. But Mark Martin says this. Mark Martin reminded everybody by saying he really wanted you as a NASCAR cup crew chief, and he tried hard to get you. He said the reason he wanted you is because he was part of a big team at Roush Racing, and he knew that you would fight for him to get those chassis setups, make sure Nobody was hiding anything from Mark because Mark felt like he was on an island by himself. So here's Mark Martin two, three weeks ago, I mean, right now, saying, tommy, I wanted to let you know I worked hard to get you. I think you're one of the best. How did that make you feel, Tommy?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, I mean, it was great during that time. That was a pretty high time in my career. It had a lot of people after me, you know, at the same time, we were having a lot of success, you know, with the 22, with Ward Burton at Bill Davis Racing. And, you know, I can't remember exactly what year all this was going on, but I had like three or four different opportunities at a time. And the biggest opportunity I had at that time was, was to take over Jeff Gordon's deal after Ray Everham. Damn. You know, the contract actually was signed. They were going to. We were going to get ready to announce it in Michigan in the middle of the year. Everyone knew Ray was leaving and he was. He was starting his Dodge, the Dodge program. So I was up next. Contract was signed. And I waited. I waited to the last minute because I didn't want to cause any conflicts or problems at Bill Davis because we had a job to do. I had a job to do. So I walked in there that day and I said, hey, I just want to let you know, I'm going to be leaving and going to work for the 24 car. I'm going to be crew chief for Jeff Gordon. So on. And then, you know, it was hard with Bill, you know, because he gave me my first real, real shot, you know, with. With a race team. I mean, obviously I had so much fun with Dick Trickle. Should have won a couple of races with him before that, but. And then I called my dad and I said, man, I just want to let you know this afternoon we're going to announced that I'm gonna be, you know, I'm excited. And it was silence on the phone, and I was like, yeah, what's wrong? He goes, why are you going there? I'm like, what do you mean? I'm gonna be crew chief for Jeff Gordon. I said. And he said, they've already got a dynasty dynasty there. They're building that's already built. You're building one where you're at. Why are you leaving? And I hung up the phone and I went, oh, man. And then I called my son. He was young at the time, Tommy iii. He started crying because he's friends with Jeb and loved the Burton family. And, you know, Hangs out at the Bill Davis shop when he would come from Long island from time to time. So I was like, oh, man. So had a conversation with Ward, and Ward did exactly what Mark didn't do. Finished paying what needed to be paid, I guess. And then I called up Ray, and he just got off the phone. I just got off the plane. They were getting ready to announce, and I said, you got to rip up that contract, man. He goes, what do you mean? I said, I'm not coming. I said, you got to rip it up. You got to do me a favor. You know, we've been friends. You know, obviously, Ray and I have been friends Since I was 10 years old, you know, and he was gracious enough to. To rip it up. And I stayed at Bill Davis for a couple more years there. And then Robbie, obviously Robbie Loomis was hired with the 24. 1 championships and stuff, but, yeah, lot going on back then. And I think the same time was with Mark Martin. And, you know, it was a lot of tough decisions at that time, because, you know, at that time, I was. I was. I was cranking along there.

[Kenny Wallace]

I want to. I want to say this. As you were talking, I was thinking about big brother Rusty. He taught me a lot, you know, Dick Trickle, Kenny Schrader, Larry Phillips. But big brother Rusty and same thing. We're here in St. Louis, Missouri, and Rusty's rolling, and he's winning the 1982 ASA championship. And Junior Johnson, okay, calls Rusty and says, darrell Waltrip's leaving the Budweiser car, and Darrell Waltrip's going somewhere else. We want you, Rusty, to drive this car. I remember it like yesterday. And, man, Rusty got nervous. And about after a month, Rusty called Junior Johnson up and said, I can't do this. And Rusty told me exactly the same thing your dad told you. Rusty said, if I did not live up to what Daryl Walter did, it would have ruined my career immediately. So Rusty went to Cliff Stewart and the Gatorade car up there in High Point. And that gave Rusty some time to grow because. Because Rusty felt like if he went in there and he didn't do what Daryl did. So tell me you made the right decision, my friend.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Well, yeah. I mean, it's. On one hand, I did. I mean, I wasn't worried about taking over from Ray. I knew the capabilities I was capable of doing. You know, I. I knew I would probably come back, come right in there and continue what. What Ray built. But the thing is, it's like, you sit back now, it's like, how would Life be so different, you know, would I have the kids? Would I met Beth, Would I have one? You know, who knows what would have happened, Right? So everything happens for a reason. You know that, Kenny. So it's hard for me to go, man, that was a bad decision, because so many other good decisions happened along the way because of not making that decision. Right. So, yeah, it was hard. You know, did I probably give up winning a bunch of races and some championships in the cup series? Absolutely. But you look back, how am I going to trade what I have? Right? Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, the great thing about conversation is, as you know, I live this life, and, you know, YouTube come around, and you look at Dale Jr. Look at yourself. You're great. But that door bumper clear, kind of reignited who Tommy Baldwin is, and I love those shows. And I just got to say thank you for something that's going to surprise you. Sometimes people remind us of things we forget. It's like, oh, my God, I forgot all about that. So I want to thank you. During my NASCAR cup career, I came over to Bill Davis racing, and I was a teammate to you just for a little bit. And I drove that Hills brother car, and I was at Kansas, and I got in the car and I just couldn't go. And I will never forget, we were in the middle of the garage area, and you came over because you were with the main car, with. With Ward Burton, the caterpillar car, Daytona 500 winning car. You, the great Tommy Baldwin, and in this very calm manner, and that surprised me because you're from New York, and we've seen all these pictures of your face, beet red, screaming, and in this calm manner, I think you helped Philippe, the crew chief, and you put a setup underneath that car, and boom, I was off and running. And we qualified well and ran well. But that meant a lot to me. Tommy, do people. Now here's a question. Do people come up and say things to you and you're like, oh, damn, I forgot all about that?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, all the time. It's. Yeah. You're like, man, I. I hardly remember that. But okay, you know, it's just like, you know, a lot of people gave me a shot, right, Kenny? You know the deal, right? I mean, it's just like, you know,

[Kenny Wallace]

they believe that's next up, Right?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, you. So you have to give back, right? You got to help, right? When you. When you can and do things for people, it's like, you know, the. The biggest. One of the proudest things I'm proud of is how many families and how many people have moved down from the northeast to make a living in this sport, you know, and how many people we've trained to, you know, if you look at the tree that I started of people that are in the sport and what to do, and that means just as much to me as the success that I've had because I know that it rubbed off everything my dad taught me, you know, everything I learned from him and other people growing up rubbed off on, on to other people. So, you know, that's, that's probably one of the coolest things that I always try to keep in my head of constantly trying to do.

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[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, deep breath everybody. We're talking to Tommy Baldwin. We're going to go back to nascar, but it's time to go home. Tommy, try not to tear up on me. We both lost our fathers. I lost my dad. Russ Wallace October 30, 2011 let's go back to New York. Growing up as a kid, your dad, Tom Baldwin, champion certified badass Hell, I mean, I loved him, but I was afraid of him. And I'm sure the competitors were too in. In a synopsis. Meaning just go as long as you want. Just tell me what it was like going to grade school, going to the shop and what was it like in New York growing up, you know, the son of your. Your great father.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, luckily I had the opportunity to, you know. Oh. Growing up, all I wanted to do is hang out with my dad. Right. So I was, I was at Baldwin Automotive pumping gas and checking customers oil when I was eight. Years old, I started, I've been working since I was 8 and, you know, started, started there sweeping the floors, rolling up the cords, cleaning the benches. Next thing you know, I'm in the race car part of the shop, you know, cleaning the cars. I wasn't allowed to touch a wrench to. I, I, I was, I learned how to clean a car correctly because, you know, you know the deal. Cleaning the car, you're looking at everything. You're looking for crack things, you're looking for bent things, you're looking for worn out things. So, you know, my dad taught me all that first before I could start working on the car. So I gradually built up to, you know, what I needed to do and, you know, shoot, 15, 16 years old, I started crew chiefing for him. So it was a quick, quick thing, but I was always at that shop while all my other friends were out partying and having a good time, you know, doing sports and stuff, I was at the shop working. And at the end of the day, it's paid off. Right. But during that time, yes, I did. I miss out on a lot of things. Probably gotten less trouble. I mean, I've gotten a lot of trouble, don't get me wrong.

[Kenny Wallace]

But at the racetrack, yeah, I probably

[Tommy Baldwin]

got in a lot less trouble by doing that, you know?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. You know, I mean, this nice. You know, I've been to Manhattan a lot. I've been down downtown Manhattan, you know, state of New York. You know, we, we know, you know, down south, it's, hey, how you doing? It's real slow country music. You get up state of New York. Now. I know up north, Watkins Glen, it's nice. But you, you've got that city to you. I mean, cherry red face, somebody pisses you off. Like Mark Martin said. Mark Martin said he wanted you because you were gonna, you were gonna get those, you were gonna defend him. Tell me about this atmosphere growing up around your father and that Manhattan downtown. Honk, honk, honk. Get out of my way. It's a, it's kind of the way us Wallaces are. We're all hyper. Tell me about that, that genre, that whole hyperactivity lifestyle.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, I mean, thankfully, we were about 45, 50 minutes away from, from that, but, you know, a little bit differently. We're, we were, we're fortunate enough to, to live right off the bay and right off the ocean. It's, it's beautiful in the summertime, but, you know, the chaos that we had with the business was probably everything that we had to deal with. Right? I mean, my dad would race all summer long, right? Starting at speed weeks and race all the way to the Turkey Derby in New Jersey in November on a credit card, right? And that's something, that's some work all winter long, Snowplow, whatever, just building cars, other people's cars, whatever, to get that thing back to zero, to start over. I mean, that's how he worked. I mean, it just, you know, he made sure that my sister and I, you know, got what we needed. But racing in the business was everything. And then, you know, we still, we still have the business. You know, I still own the businesses. We have now, two of them. And when, when he passed away in 2004, he was, he was ready to move down here with me. He wanted to sell the place and come work on race cars and have a good time and do the things he really wanted to do. And after he passed away, you know, I went up there and looked at the people, I said, hey, I'll continue running this place you, if you guys are in. And they said, they're in. And at the time, I think it was eight employees. We had one place. Now we have two places and about 30 employees. So.

[Kenny Wallace]

My second generation always kicks ass. Congratulations.

[Tommy Baldwin]

My, my dumbass decided to grow the place and have other buildings and do all the other things besides being down and down south. I got businesses up north, and thank God I got really good people up there running it for me. So, yeah, I mean, it's, I'm big on, big on the legacy stuff, you know, I'm big of what, what got me to this, to this point, you know, this race car, the shops, you know, keeping everything going, you know, living off my word, right. My words. More important to, you know, if I say something, I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. You know, that's just what I was taught, you know, work hard, work, play hard.

[Kenny Wallace]

I, I, I, I read up on something and we're in this, this area of your life right now. It's, it said that you briefly pursued being a race car driver, but you decided to be a crew chief. Is that true?

[Tommy Baldwin]

My mother decided I didn't. Yeah, I was.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, I want to hear this whole story.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, I mean, I was. Back then, you had the Charger Novice division in Long Island. They used to race at ISO Speedway and Riverhead Raceway. And really, I just, Wow. I, I decided I was going to, I wanted a race, you know, so I would, I got an over and I was starting to gut it out and, but what happened was it gave my dad a really good excuse because my mother was on him at the time. She did not want me to drive. But what I was starting to do, I was starting to roll the thing in the. In the shop during work hours. So it gave my. Gave my dad an excuse to. For me to stop. So right then and then, that was into my driving, my driving career. And, you know, my dad was a little selfish at the time. You know, he wanted me to work on the car.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, absolutely.

[Tommy Baldwin]

And do what needed to do for him. And, you know, I always used to tell him, Kenny, it's. There was a lot going on in Long island at the time with the business and stuff. But, you know, I would ask him, I said, man, why aren't we. Why aren't you venturing off? Why aren't we doing this? You know, it was a lot cheaper to do the. The Busch grand national cars at the time, doing the things like the time, you know, and, you know, we actually bought a car from. From. From Birdie and you for Mike. I, at the time and brought it back to. To Long island and had a short dream.

[Kenny Wallace]

Is this why you and I like each other? Because, yeah, I drove for Birdie so long, Mike.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, we're crazy.

[Kenny Wallace]

Crazy. Yeah, Birdie, we're all crazy.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, back. Back. Back in the 80s, Birdie spent a lot of time, Lived with us for a while in Long island, stayed with us when he was doing Dick Trainor stuff with the modified.

[Kenny Wallace]

I never knew.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, he traveled back and forth from Massachusetts to Long island, travel in the same circuit. We would. We would travel together up and down the Northeast. And. Yeah, he would stay. He would stay with us on. He would race Friday night at Riverhead, Saturday night at Islip, and he would stay with us, work on the car on Saturday morning, turning around at our shop. And I spent a lot of time with Birdie, got to know him in between his race hill days, you know, after his race hill days with Ronnie Burchard there, he went back home, did the modified stuff, and then he went back south and obviously had all those championships and. And after the fact down here. So, yeah, Bertie was a good man.

[Kenny Wallace]

Man, you have no idea how emotional that makes me. You know, I don't know what it is, but, you know, my dad won all the time, so they hated us, so we fought all the time. And, you know, and I'm not a fighter because I'm a runt. You, you. You and Birdie, I mean, is it because our families won all the time it's like, oh, we're gonna fight. Let's fight. Let me find something to throw at you. And. And Birdie, when he came with me, I kind of smiled. Reminded me of my dad, you know, My dad didn't fight. Did you grow up kind of like I did, where it's like, they hate us, so let's just. Let's just be like that or. What was it like?

[Tommy Baldwin]

I don't know if they hated us. I just think some. Most of the time, when my dad felt he got disrespected, you know, he was going to put his foot down, you know, he wasn't back then. You can get away with all that stuff, right? And, you know, my dad was a clean racer. I actually, I. I don't remember ever seeing him take anybody out, you know, and that's why I. I try to instill in my kids Jack and Luke, you know, that's why I try to teach every race car driver. That's why I hate certain divisions because they teach this and do this and they say it's okay. It's like, you know, that's not how I was brought up, man. If you can't, your car's not fast enough to go around them or underneath them, you know, you might give them a little nudge if they're blocking you or brake checking you. Yeah. But if your car is not fast enough, we got to go to work, you know, not them. So we should have had the opportunity to be starting in front of them. Right. You shouldn't have let them pass you. Whatever. But there's a lot of knowledge that, you know, that people aren't getting because they're so worried about the final result where there's so much stuff going on in between that these kids can learn, you know? So that's the things I got from my dad. That's the things I learned from my dad, you know, and when people disrespected that, that's when it pissed my old man off, you know?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. And listen up, everybody. We're talking to the great Tommy Baldwin. And Tommy, I do want to say this. You are an incredibly nice man. You. You are a wonderful man, and I want to thank you for being so good to me. And I just wanted to make that statement. But. But I also see that, you know, you're super nice until it's time to fight. And you. You recently came back in the news in the most fun way door.

[Tommy Baldwin]

That was. That was a year. That was years ago. I mean, not years ago, but A year ago.

[Kenny Wallace]

Don't ruin the story. But it is. Listen, here's one thing I've learned about life. We are nice our whole life. And there's that. There's that one time that we go ballistic. And. And. And it is awesome. It's awesome. So there you are, door bumper clear, and. And they. They do a little investigating on you, and then the memes come rolling out. Somebody made you mad. Your headset is halfway off.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I was giving racing electron. I was giving race electronics some. Some sponsorship coverage there.

[Kenny Wallace]

It was great. It was. It made the whole NASCAR world go, oh, damn. Tell me about that. Whole time their door bumper clear where they brought all that up.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, it wasn't very. It's still not very funny. I mean, I'm not.

[Kenny Wallace]

Come on now.

[Tommy Baldwin]

No, it's all right. I mean, it's not that I give a about it, but, you know, it's. You know, my. My son had a running. Running with. With another competitor a week before that. He took my son out, just blatantly made a right on him and walled them while he was passing him for second. And the next. The next week, my. Just see that?

[Kenny Wallace]

I did see that.

[Tommy Baldwin]

It just so happened my son got loose underneath this competitor. Yeah, no, he just got loose. He really did overdrive it and got loose and they both slammed the wall hard. And a lot of people didn't know a couple weeks before that he. My. My son broke his foot. Plane broke his ankle, twisted, whatever. He was playing basketball. So when he got. I was still on top of the truck watching. And when he got out, you know, the ambulance went to him and he was limping and. And the other driver got out and they toughed a little bit and stuff. And the only reason why I got down is just to let them let the ambulance people know that wasn't from the crash, that was from previous things. So just, you know, but then they. Then the other driver started, you know, I said, looks like he got loose. And he just, you know, mf me. And next thing you know, all the other people start chiming in that shouldn't be chiming in. And next thing you know, the tow drivers got me by. By the neck and I'm like, who is this? Who's choking? You know, because I don't care, right? Like, who the hell is choking me? You know, So I get off him and it's like. Finally I was like, I'm said what I said. But, you know, they can. They can show a little short period part of that, but a lot happened to cause that. Kenny, a lot happened.

[Kenny Wallace]

God, it was great, though. And we all know that. We all know that you're a good man. And I say that because I really believe 99.9%. You're very pleasant, but everybody knows that. We all got that spark. You know, it's. It's no different than, you know, Jeff Gordon and Jeff Burton getting into a fight at Texas Motor Speed was like, what the hell? You know, those guys don't know how to fight. They're pushing. So we remember that people do have that, you know, that competitive drive inside them. Okay, we are going to get to NASCAR in a little bit here, but I. I do want to go back to those days with your father. You know, I'm. You're 59. I'm 62. I found myself in. In high school, like, taking pencils and crossing them and trying to, you know, I'm in the shop with Rusty and, you know, wedge, you know, right front to left rear and, you know, lining the wheels up and caster and camber. You're smiling. And remember, everybody, this is. This is on Dirty Mo media podcast, too. If you're here on Kenny Wallace YouTube, you can see it. You know where I'm going with this. Is it fair to say that you and I grew up really wanting to learn about that damn chassis? Did you. Did you grow up learning and liking the chassis side of racing?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, I don't think I had a choice. You know, it's. It's, you know, since I wasn't going to race, but, yeah, I always wanted to be a leader. You know, I'm saying, I just. I don't know what got into me to do that, to take control of what needed to be taken control of. Sometimes. Sometimes it gets me in trouble at home, you know, but the good thing is I learned everything from the ground up, so no one can tell me anything. You know, like, I can go load the trail. I can go mount some tires. You know, I can. I can do anything that needs to be done. So, you know, those late nights and setting the cars up with my dad and learning the processes and doing the things he need, you know, that needed to be done, and that was big. But I. I'll tell you a cool story which kind of changed the narrative of. Of me starting for him to stop worrying about that a little bit, because he was always too worried about it and start driving. So. You. You remember Duke Southard?

[Kenny Wallace]

I don't.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Duke Southern Driving School. And he had set up stuff.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, all right, all right.

[Tommy Baldwin]

So, I mean, he had some stuff. So my dad. I don't know where he went. And I got a hold of this guy, and I read a lot of his books and stuff. I got a hold of him.

[Kenny Wallace]

Here we go.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I got a hold of him during the winter, and he didn't have much. He was doing a lot of late model stuff in the Midwest with you guys and down south in this Florida area. And I got a hold of him, and he guided me through some things to go do when we went down to speed weeks. And when my dad got back after a week, I don't even know where he went because he never took vacations. I don't know what happened, but in a week's time, I had a whole test plan laid out. Like I said, okay, here's what we're gonna do when we show up and go test. And we went and did it. He just kept his. I cannot believe it. My old man just kept his mouth shut, stayed in the car the whole day, and I ran through this whole testing.

[Kenny Wallace]

You were growing up. You were becoming a young man.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, it was pretty cool. I think I was 15, 16 years old at the time and handling everything in New Smyrna, and we ended up winning the chat. We ended up winning the championship that year.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's hard to do. Yeah.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Based off. Based off everything that we did on that test. And that was kind of the. The turning point of me going, you know what? I can do this. You know, I can be. You know, I can get pretty good at this stuff. So, yeah, so it was pretty cool.

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Liberty, Liberty.

[Kenny Wallace]

Liberty, Liberty.

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[Kenny Wallace]

That is really good stuff. I like that. I, I found myself as a young kid, you know, in the shop. We're building leaf spring dirt cars, brother. Rusty. We call it Poor Boy Chassis. And yeah, man, oh man, I think back to. I become silent a little bit right now, thinking about. I'd go to bed at 12, 1 in the morning and I'd go to, you know, elementary the next day. My teacher would say, kenny, can I talk to you? And she said, you smell like grease. Because I would take a shower, you know, at one in the morning. But okay, let's go south. Rightfully so. And I want to open this up. Okay, we got the Bodines, we got Ronnie, Bouchard, Stefanic. I mean, you know, I don't know your area as good as you do, but you decide to come down that hill and quote, unquote, we did the same thing in the Midwest. We're going south. So when was the moment that you decided to go south and go nascar?

[Tommy Baldwin]

All right, so we, we just got done. We've just. I was, it was Kevin Manion, Bono and I. Oh yeah, and Steve park was driving for us with the modifier. We just got done winning the race at Thompson. We lost the championship, I think by three points. Won seven out of the last 11 races. We had just, unfortunately we just had terrible luck in the beginning of the season. And we were sitting in the clubhouse of Thompson and we got to talking to the owner and he said, hey, this is the things we want to do next year. He goes, all right, I'll think about it. But I don't think I want to get that heavily involved financially. So Greg Sachs called me up and he said, hey, you got that Miami race, that new Miami race coming up at the end in November and watch you and why don't you come down and set my car up and help finish it and we'll go have some fun. I said, hey, can I bring Bono with me? And he's like, yeah, let's. Yeah, you can come. So yeah, all you gotta do is set it up. So typical Saxy, you know, we get there, we fly into Daytona. The car is in some ocala wood swamp, some imka race guy and the thing don't have a crush panel window, radiator duct, nothing in it. We don't have much experience on full body cars at the time, you know, so we look at each other, I'm like, all right, let's get after it. So we were up for, up for Two days straight working on this car. And that was the first race at Miami was 60 cars showed up. I think 67 cars showed up. Yeah. There and showed up. Qualified sixth or seventh. Back then. Back then they had still had glass windshields, you know, and he had this. The window strap was. We. I think we were running 9th, 10th and 9th or 10th halfway through the race and the windshield strap came loose and he just pulled in. Well, they're going to black flag us. I'm like, how do you know? So we just ended up pulling in. But after we qualified, Greg put us up in the Keys and keep us gay in there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, damn.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Bono and I sitting in the hotel, we're drinking. Finally, we're exhausted, you know, we're up. Just got done qualifying the top 10, 67 cars.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I looked at him, I said, you know, and you know how much success, success Bono has had and now in his career. I looked at him and I said, you know, we can do this.

[Kenny Wallace]

I was gonna say that.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I said, we, we can come down here and we can compete against these guys. You know that. And take typical Bono, that's all he said. So Thanksgiving goes by, I wake up, I don't know what happened. Somebody pissed me off. That's it. I'm moving, moving south. That's how it went. I said, I'm moving south. I called Bono up. He was, he lived up in Massachusetts. I said, are you coming or not? He's like, where? I said, I'm moving south. I said, I'm leaving in the morning. He goes, I'll call you back. So about 45 minutes later, he calls me, he goes, all right, I'm coming. So he loaded up, he had a pickup truck. He had a old stereo, two bags of clothes and a suitcase of clothes. He took the ferry over to Long Island. We unloaded his pickup truck, put it in my dad's trailer because I loaded a bunch of stuff up.

[Kenny Wallace]

This is unreal.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Put his, Put his pickup truck for sale. Best offer at my dad's shop. And we were off. We were down. We, we. That was the start of, start of it. So we, we landed in a couple days after Thanksgiving and got. Got a house together. Ended up being a pretty famous house called Camp Chaos. And park ended up moving. Park ended up moving in and Gary Putnam ended up moving in and had about 12 people in a three bedroom apartment by the time. It was all a three bedroom house. By the time was all said and done, you know, a bunch of people started moving down with us. And yeah, that's what started it.

[Kenny Wallace]

So earlier you talked about how proud you are. You know, people came down after you. First of all, let's go back. Was your dad mad or sad when you peeled out?

[Tommy Baldwin]

I don't think he had a choice because he knew that's what I always wanted to do. For some reason, I don't. Growing up and doing the things I wanted. I always mentioned Charlotte. I don't know why. I just had, in my mind. Well, I didn't totally know that at the time. You know, I just, you know, I was always in contact, believe it or not, with Del Jarrett early on in the years when he was still driving the 32 Nestle Crunch.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Car I was always wanted to. You know, I knew he was in Hickory, and I was, you know, he's like, hey, man, when you want a job, let me know. Because we always would meet up, all of us, right. In Martinsville. Right? We, you know, twice a year in the March and October. That's most of the time when we would see each other, right? So, you know, you and us and Dale and all them guys, you know, so he's like. So I started calling him. He's like, man, I just don't have a position open yet. Because back then, it was only three, four people that were working on. On those cars back then, right? So you couldn't, like, open up the floodgates then, you know. So it's just like, ah, man, you know, just. And then I just decided, man, I'm. I'm heading out.

[Kenny Wallace]

My. My mind is wandering. 1984. I don't know what I am.2022. I'm a cup crew chief on the Levi Garrett car for Joe Rutman. Our stories are so similar. It's. It's. It's scary. I'm just listening to you in amazement. Yeah. I think you brought way more people from New York than I did from Missouri. You know, I kind of, you know, Schrader came down. You know, I'm in a. I'm in an apartment, and all of a sudden I hear. I open the door, and there's Kenny Schrader and Ernie Jumper. Then you come up for air, you know, years later, and here comes, you know, Carl Edwards and, you know, Jamie McMurray, Nick Hoffman. Nick. Nick's winning dirt races now. So take me through your people. I. I know. I don't know who you're a protege of or they're a protege of you, but, you know, you got that whole, like I said, Ronnie Bouchard, all the mod Guys, I think of Ray Evernham.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, we have the Spence, the Spencers, the Bodines, you know, Steve park, obviously the Fuller, Jeff Fuller. You know, a lot of guys did move down to, you know, Stefanik moved down a short period of time to run the, the truck series, I think for two years. But you, you know, back early, before that, I would say, correct me if I'm wrong, mid-80s, early-80s. Most of you guys can make just as much money running around the short track world than you could in the cup level. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

So I was repairing vacuum cleaners. I wanted to get the hell out of there.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

But yes, yes, I, yes, I agree.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. So it was kind of hard for a lot of people to make those decision at the time because of that, you know. And you know, the sport wasn't as big in the media and as big as it, you know, I mean, Kenny, you know the deal, man, and dick

[Kenny Wallace]

trickle down at 40 something years old.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, and I wish I had Dick 10 years, you know. Yeah. Before, when he was 10 years younger, we could have went to town, man. But that guy taught me a lot too. I mean, if you think about the people that I had a chance to work with, you know, I've been blessed, you know, the drivers and you know, I've had some really good ones. I've had some bad ones too, but I've had some really, really good ones. That taught me a lot. So, yeah, I've been blessed with the people around me to help me get to where I've gotten to and support what I've done and yeah, it's pretty cool, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

If this, if this was a Netflix documentary, it'd be a easy two hour show and sadly, there's some things we got to skip through just because, like to keep the show at, at a limit. Okay, here we go. Now we're going to gloss over things. You're going to want to fill some holes, but that's fine. All right, you mentioned that. So you begin your NASCAR crew chief, 1997, you come down the 20 Hardee's, they sell the restaurants that closes down. Let's just start with Dick Trickle and Juni Dunn.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Levy. Yeah, I mean it's, you know, the, the engine builder at the time was also building engines for the 90 car. And believe it or not, we in that Hardy's car, we were pretty fast. I mean that was a brand new team we built that I built. I was only down here for 10 months down south. Next thing you know, I'm a Crew chief. Building a brand new team for Harry Rainier. I mean, brand new team from scratch. So I had to hire all the people. I moved a lot of people from up north down at the time, how to get the cars built, build the bodies, you name it. We moved into Bobby Allison's old shop at the time by the racetrack and did it. And, you know, we showed up at Daytona. We qualified six got spun out. I think we were running second when we got spun out off of two there. But we had some good runs. And in the beginning of all that, how it started. Let me. Let me start back it. When, when we first started testing with that car, the guy that was supposed to drive it was Tony Stewart.

[Kenny Wallace]

No way.

[Tommy Baldwin]

He was under. He was under contract with Harry Rainier.

[Kenny Wallace]

I remember that name.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, we. We went to. We went to Atlanta, myself and Tony with that car as an ARCA car in November. And you remember back then, there was 60 arca cars back then that used to show up.

[Kenny Wallace]

60 of everything. Of everything.

[Tommy Baldwin]

So we test, we show up as an ARCA car, and we're like 3/10 faster than the field. This is the first time Tony's in a big track in a car like that. And we hauled ass. But the next day was the cup test. So I looked at Tony and looked at Harry Rainier, and I'm like, why don't we just stay? Because back then, the only difference was can cut the spoiler and change tires from Hoosiers to Goodyears. That was the only difference really, between a Cup car and an ARCA car at the time. 60 cars then. So we were like third fastest at the end of the cup testing.

[Kenny Wallace]

So we're like.

[Tommy Baldwin]

So we were like, hell with the. The ARCA stuff. Let's. Let's. Let's just come back as a. As the. As a CUP car. Well, we didn't know at the time that Joe Gibbs was poaching Tony Stewart. Yeah, right. So things got quiet for a couple weeks, and we didn't know what was going on. Next thing you know, Tony. Joe Gibbs bought out Tony's contract, and we had no driver. So we're all prepared to. We're all prepared to run Atlanta. And we didn't have a driver, so we hired Elton Sawyer at the time, and he qualified 18th. And then we ran 12th to 18th the whole race. And he. He was like, this is the best car I've ever driven, cup car I've ever driven in my life. I mean, this. This thing was way better than me today, you know, so that kind of got, believe it or not, got me going in other places because Elton was very popular down here. He was, you know. You know, Elton, man, great, good racer,

[Kenny Wallace]

great race car driver.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Started, started like us in the short track world. So during this time I'm doing this. He's good friends with Bill and Gail Davis and he's like, man, you need to keep your eye on this guy. You know, he's got going on. So rewind back. I. The 20 car closes up about halfway through the year. The partner with Rainier runs out of money and place closes up. But the engine builder, Wallace there.

[Kenny Wallace]

Larry Wallace.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Larry Wallace.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh my God. I know. Yes.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. So he was also building engines for Trickle with the Dunleavy team. So they were kind of in the same boat, I guess, kind of as Mark Martin was. Juni Don Levy. Yeah, old guy stuck in his old ways. And things were starting to change back then, right? The technology was starting to change a little bit. So the owner of Hollow Myers called me and said, hey, we want to hire you to bring you up there. The thing is, you're going to work for me and you're gonna, you're gonna work on the race team. I'm gonna pay you, I'm gonna put you in an apartment, obviously your things and this and that. So free furniture, everything I had free, beautiful. I had beautiful furniture. And then. And so here, here I am a year later after moving down. I'm halfway home to Richmond now I'm living in Richmond. And I had a blast though, man, that team, you know, bunch of good kids, grew up. I mean, I actually, when I moved back down, half the guys came with me, you know, on to other great things now, but I had a blast there. I learned a lot from that, man. You know, just, just being around Dick Trickle, right, and knowing, knowing what he accomplished and all the things he did and, you know, having a chance to win a couple races and running the top five at Rockingham and Darlington and Atlanta and Texas and almost winning Bristol and just, just, I mean, you think about. He was how old man he was? I think he was 50 at the time when he was driving, you know, for us. So I just would always say, man, if I had you 10, 15 years ago, we'd rock. But he still was the man, you

[Kenny Wallace]

know, Obviously, everybody knows that. You know, I love my, my dad, my brothers, but Dick Trickle was, was my leader.

[Tommy Baldwin]

And when he's the leader, he was the leader of your whole gang, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes, he was. It was. And, and the thing about Dick Is when he passed away, I looked back and I said, oh, damn. I didn't know it, but. But he, he was a philosopher, you know, because he, you know, he taught you some philosophy, you know, because, you know, politics, you know, but also the other side, where we're gonna, we're gonna line this chassis, you know, he was practical. And sadly, that's the way life is, Tommy. When we get older, we look back and like, oh, damn. He wasn't just a great race car driver. He understood human philosophy and how to keep your mind about you.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, there's one thing he's. He's that stuck in my head out of everything. When I first met him, he looked at me in the eye. He goes, and I use this still to this day when I'm chief in anything or anything going on. He looked at me, pointed at me. He goes, you have one time during the weekend to scare me. That's it. And I was like, oh, man, what time is that? When is it right? You know, he. But he didn't tell me when. But I figured out it was qualifying. That was the only time that I had, you know, don't do it before because then I'm not going to qualify good in the race, because then I'm not going to race good. But you have one time to scare me, and that's qualifying. You know, I'm like, you know, I figured out it, man, that's. He means qualifying. So, yeah, I, I use that, you know, I. When I'm throwing stuff at it and doing things to these cars, even with the kids, I'm like, I'm only going to scare him once, and that's when it's going to be, you know.

[Kenny Wallace]

What I love about this is Jimmy Ellage. When I drove for Andy Petrie and I drove the 55 square D car, Jimmy and them would, Would say, why do you always pick up for qualifying? I said, because I'm not giving you everything I got in practice. I'm. I'm. I'm giving it to you, but I'm not going to let the car step out, step out. And I'm not going to wreck in practice, Jimmy, you know, but I'll wreck in qualifying, you know, just because now I got. Now I'm giving you time to get the backup car out, you know. But leading up to qualifying, I'm like, oh, this baby's yawn out. I'm staying in it, you know?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, that's a great story you just told me. I love that

[Tommy Baldwin]

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[DSW Announcer]

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[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah.

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[Kenny Wallace]

We're getting there. We're coming to the end and like I said, it easily could be a two hour show. So I'm going to throw some stuff together here. You go to Bill Davis's, you win four cup races. You win the Daytona 500 in 2002.

[Tommy Baldwin]

You go to Everams one Southern 500. Don't forget that. That's another, Another crown jewel.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, keep going. Hey, you know, listen, interrupt me because

[Tommy Baldwin]

we got to consolidate all New Hampshire was really cool because that was kind of like my home track, you know, that's.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, baby.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Richmond was cool because, you know, my dad loved that place and the. So the Sawyers owned it at the time. So. Yeah, it was good. I mean, gave a lot more away, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, it's just the way it always goes.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Just, you know, I had the opportunity to win a lot of races and. But look, man, not you. Look back. There's. There's only, not many crew chiefs that get the chance to win races. Right? Not a lot of people get to win. Some get the opportunity to win a lot. Right. Which. So it's to say that I'm disappointed in my career is. No, no, I, I did that.

[Kenny Wallace]

I did that to myself. I. I did that to myself. I. It. I don't want to go down that road. It gets dark and it. You and I are. We're badasses. We're good enough. Okay, hold on now. Because we can get veered off in the wrong direction. Let me just say this. And then, and then you go, okay, Bill Davis Racing. You win big races with Ward Burton. You go over to Evernham's, you bring Casey Kane in, you win Rookie of the year in 2004, you give Casey Kane his first win at Richmond. Okay? Now There's a lot more, but we're closing before that.

[Tommy Baldwin]

We finished second, I think 12 times.

[Kenny Wallace]

Damn.

[Tommy Baldwin]

One, you know, so it's, that was aggravating, you know, I mean, we should have won four or five, six races the first year together, but. Yeah, go on.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, I wanted to serve that up to you. You know, Bill Davis, you won a lot. Daytona 500, winning crew chief, 2002, you, you go to Everam, you get one of the, you know, Casey Kane, you give him his first win, you win rook of the year. And like I said, there's a lot after. But let's just tell me about that time when nobody's better than you.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Well, I don't know. There was a lot of people better than me at the time, but I,

[Kenny Wallace]

I exaggerate to get the point across.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, I mean it's, you know, during those times, man, there was a lot going on in our sport that the technology that was getting instilled into our race cars, man, just was difficult for a lot of us racers that just changed and did things. It was hard for some of us to comprehend at the time, especially when the tools weren't right at Everham's. We had a lot of good things going on at the time. But what happened, what happens sometimes, and it happens to all of us is sometimes some things getting taken away and those tools don't, those tools don't work as good anymore. So when you're concentrating on those tools have to work to make the car go fast, things don't start working good anymore. Right. And we got into that little trouble there where it was all engineering, which it should have been, but the engineering tools at the time weren't working. And I'm like, things not right, the tools aren't right, you know, and just there was too much conflict between the crew chiefs and the engineers at the time because Ray was, Ray was right. I mean, he wanted his team engineer driven. But I was right too because the tools that he was trying to get his engineers to use weren't developed yet. They were in the beginning, but we had some things happen, some things taken away, some things had rules changed and it changes the things. So, you know, I ended up leaving there and going over to Yates and. Because, I mean, look, I had a nice contract with Ray. I mean, Ray took care of me. It was a 10 year contract. I was going to be there for a long time.

[Kenny Wallace]

Damn.

[Tommy Baldwin]

And again, Ray being Ray with me, when friends, it just, you know, let me out of it because he saw I wasn't Happy. And he saw it was going to be an issue. And it's, you know, Kenny Francis, it took him probably with his engineering background and everything he had to do. It probably took him four or five months to get every, all the tools back where it needed to be to be successful with Casey. And they started winning again, which was great. And you know, he, Kenny came up to me, goes, man, you were right. You know, the tools, nothing was right at the time, you know, what we had going on. So I'm like, man, I'm glad you got it figured out, you know, so. But yeah, and I went to, I went to Yates after that. Didn't have a good time there at all. Just. I did not like the atmosphere, to be honest with you.

[Kenny Wallace]

Elliot Sadler did not like that time there either. You know, we had Elliot Sadler and Kenny conversation and he was, it shocked me. He was saying the same thing you said.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, I was disappointed and not wasn't disappointed in Elliot. I mean, I think if we had everything we needed to do, then.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, nothing about you, just about.

[Tommy Baldwin]

No, I mean, we ended up winning the Gatorade duels that year and finished fourth, I think in the 500 and had a couple good runs, run second couple places. But they didn't have no tools, right. With, you know, nothing. Why all these other big teams had everything going on. So. And next thing you know, I'm back at Bill Davis, right? So, you know, they, they, you know, sat down with Bill and he's like, man, I hate I ever let you go, man. And you know, do you want to come back? I'm like, yeah, this is my home. You know, so came back for another four years there until he closed up and, and that's when all hell broke loose. That's when I had this idea I was going to start my own cup team. And that was the start of that.

[Kenny Wallace]

Let me just say this. I understand what you're saying about tools, but I want to make a fun joke here. When you and I first got into nascar, we were stringing the wheelbase and, and then, then the lasers came out. It's a fan, you know, and I'll never forget, brother Rusty, you know, listen, I can't help it.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Rusty, your car, your car owner making the pull down machine and you know, all kinds of started happening. Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

So Rusty had done one about seven races at Bristol and Penske is going to send a shock engineer. Okay. Now Rusty's already builds his own shocks. In other words, Rusty doesn't physically build the shocks, but he's there with the shot guy. And Rusty always loved this dolphin nose shock graph where it started out weak and then went up and he called it a dolphin nose. And this is in your favor. So Rusty says, they send that damn engineer there, and we go up to Bristol to test, and this guy's going to tell me how to build shocks. And one of Rusty's buddies was telling me the story. They said Rusty took his paw, his whole hand.

[Tommy Baldwin]

And he.

[Kenny Wallace]

He took his hand, he put it right in front of that engineer's face and said, I got this, pal.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's changed a lot, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

I mean, I mean, I think that really emulates that time when, you know, he had Terry Satchel over there at, you know, Andy Petrie's, and, you know, I'm driving the car and Terry started

[Tommy Baldwin]

diving into the wind tunnel stuff, and all the stuff started happening underneath the cars and, you know, Jimmy Makar in the background, they started running bump stops way before us. And Bobby started winning races all of a sudden, and championships. And there's just so many different things that. That went on. It's like, holy cow, right? And it's,

[Kenny Wallace]

you know, listen, we all love Dale Jr. Loving with our life. He's. I mean, he's so awesome. But when you hear those stories of how they were winning the Daytona 500, it's like, I thought you guys could see air. But the one thing about the south is they're sneaky. You know, people from the Midwest and North, we just, you know, we're right in your face. The people from the south, they. They're.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, but they. They did not like us coming down here, man. No, they. We. We. We hurt a lot of their feelings.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well, you know, you look at. What was it? Runt Pittman, the motor builder, at. At the 4, you know, it's like years later, it comes out, oh, yeah, we put candle wax in the studs of our heads, and when the race would start, we'd suck air. We're like, how the hell is Sterling Marlin just blown by everybody?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Heroes are made with it, you know, with. With good engineer. You know, some people call it cheating. And you and I are like, oh, that's badass.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, some of the things I'm. I'm not proud of it, but that. There's some. There's some rules in that rule book because of me, for sure.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're awesome. That makes me so damn happy. Okay, man. The great thing about Kenny conversation. I have all these list of questions, and let's come to the end here now. And once again, I'm going to serve it up to you. You start. I mean, it's. You shock The Racing World 2009. You start your own cup team. And I'm going to tell you my highlight now, Tommy, you're going to take the ball and go with it here, but I just want to. I know there's a lot. And I'm not disrespecting you. You. You started your own team. But my highlight was that old white cars at Daytona or Talladega, and all of a sudden you got the Golden Corral sponsor on it, and you are leading with Dave Blaney at Daytona and Talladega. To me, that was like, holy crap. I can't believe Tommy Baldwin just started his own team and pulled this off. So that's me. Now, tell me about you.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I wish it was that easy, but.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I know.

[Tommy Baldwin]

You know, with. With Bill closing down, it gave me the opportunity to take advantage of some things, right? It's, you know, Marty Gaunt bought. Bought Bill out. He bought it for the engine shop. He didn't buy it for the race team. He quickly liquidated the race team through auctions and stuff. So before that went on, you know, I made a deal with Marty. I said, look, I. I want to. I wanna. I'm gonna start my own race team. And here's what I want.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know what?

[Tommy Baldwin]

And, yeah, and he. And here's what I want to do. I don't have any money, but here's what I want to do. I want to do this, I want to do that. I want that car. I want these parts and pieces. I want, I want, I want that. And if I make the race, I'll pay you. If I don't, I'll give it back. And he looked at me, the engine, too. I made deal. I'll, you know, I. I said, I said, if I make the race, I pay you, you know, for leasing the engine. If I don't. And he looked at me, he goes, baldwin, you got some balls, but let's do it. So right then, and then, I was off and running. Joey Arrington, at the time, he had little control of, you know, Bobby. Bobby Hamilton's truck, team stuff, all the equipment, the trailers, everything. I did the same thing. I don't have any money, but I need all this. You want to make. I said, you want to. You want to make a payment plan? He looked at me, goes, you crazy? But let's do it. Got all Bobby Hamilton stuff weeded out through all the stuff Traded both trailers in for a new trailer shop. Equipment, gears and transmissions. Gordy. Gordy. I was out of a job at time. I brought him in. I said, I'm going to start you a business. Here's all your gears and transmissions. You start there. And, oh, I want my done for free, but you can use mine to rent out. So that started that business. So we had going on, and we showed up Daytona, no sponsor, with Scott Riggs driving. And back then, it was still, you know, a bunch of cars showing up, 50 cars showing up, and we made the race. And it got me started, it covered. Covered everything that needed to be covered.

[Kenny Wallace]

And, hey, let me ask you a question right there. I've always heard it, but I've never seen it making the Daytona 500. What kind of check comes in the mail for last place?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Back then it was. Back then, it was about 250,000, I think.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, that's good stuff.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. Yeah. But. But after that, there was nothing left.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean. I mean, you know that two weeks after that, there was nothing left because I had to do to all the IOUs, you know, to everybody.

[Kenny Wallace]

You. You know, the Rock, the. The fighter, Dwayne Johnson, He's. He says something that I really like. He says, if you want to do something, you'll figure out a way to do it. If you don't want to do something, you'll figure out a way not to do it. And that is so profound.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

And you just said, we're going to do this. And it reminds me of Schrader, because he calls Rick Hendrick Mr. H. He calls him his partner. He says, rick, you got some motors over there now I'm gonna take him. Okay. All right, Schrader. You know, the IOU starts.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Sometimes you got to be a little forceful of your dreams, you know?

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, we're gonna. Schrader's like, I got this ARCA team, and I'm gonna take your motors that are sitting over here, and your motor guy says you're not doing nothing with them. And I hear these stories from Schrader. I love this. Oh, my God, Tommy. You know, listen, I respect you immensely. We've gone well over an hour, and I just want to say that I read something, and you know how much I love you. How is your health doing? How are you doing?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Everything's good, man. It's. Thank God. It's, uh. You know, I had a little bout with cancer, and, uh, I tell you, it kicked my ass, you know, and it took longer than I expected to get back to 100%. But I'm in good shape now. It's. It's cleared, it's gone, thank goodness. And, you know, I'm at the gym every day at 6:00am so, yeah, I'm good, man. No complaints. Inspired some people along the way still. I still help people from time to time that are going through some stuff. Believe it or not, the oncology place will call me when they're struggling with a patient and that won't listen to them. And sometimes I. Sometimes I'll go up there and help them and. But yeah, it's. It was an experience, man. It just, you know, laying there and it got you thinking about a lot of different things, you know, and it changed. It changed me a little bit. But I'm glad to come out of it and be healthy again and, you know, do whatever else I can do to help anybody else that's gone through it or going through it and just had my first grandbaby, so that's kind of changed my life. A little bit of baby girl, so the first girl in our family, so you know how that's going to go. She's going to be well taken care of. So that's gonna be a lot of fun.

[Kenny Wallace]

Pma positive mental attitude. I. I want to be. I want to be part of your. Your team. Because you and I are survivors of nascar.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Well, hold on. It's not even nascar, Kenny. It's. It's long ago when I watched my dad fight, kick, and screaming. I mean, every day, but every morning I watch that man wake up and start over, you know, and go at it again. No matter what happened that day before, no matter who on him or. Or what he did or trouble he got into or trouble anything, I watched that man every day get up and start over and do it again. And that's probably the biggest. The biggest thing I learned from him. It's just like, you got to keep going, man. You just got to keep digging. You don't have a choice because no one cares, right? No one cares.

[Kenny Wallace]

No. When you die, they forget about your later. Oh, look at his trophies. And they're on to the next thing.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah. I mean, you got to live, right? So it's like you got to save yourself.

[Kenny Wallace]

You and I are. You and I are certified badasses. And, you know, I wanted to be Jeff Gordon. I wanted to be him. That son of a. Yeah. But I'm still kicking ass.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yes, you are my man. You.

[Kenny Wallace]

You cannot get me. I win at everything. And. And you and I are the Same. And you're a certified badass, and you won a lot. And let's end it right there. And listen, everybody, that was tongue in cheek. You cannot swallow Tommy Baldwin. You will never swallow him because everything you just said about his dad. We get up every day and let's fight. Let's go again, because you're not going to get us. And that's all there is. Hey, that was fun.

[Tommy Baldwin]

I'm.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm ready to run through a brick wall. I love that laugh. That means you're ready to get them.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Yeah, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, everybody, as a reminder all the time, if you want to see Tommy Walan's pretty face, go over to the Kenny Wallace YouTube show. Of course, if you're on the way to the races, you turn right in there to Dirty Mo Media podcasts and listen to Tommy Baldwin on Kenny Conversation. Tommy, I think that's it. Anything else, buddy?

[Tommy Baldwin]

Oh, man. Thanks for having me on. I'm pissed that Shrader's not on. I thought this was the Kenny Kenny Show.

[Kenny Wallace]

Herman Schrader, how many shows do you have? Oh, my God, too many. Actually, I've got. I've got to call Mike Davis. We got Herman Schrader. Herman Schrader is a show that Schrader and I do on Mondays. And then Kenny Conversation is intense conversations with the world's greatest race car drivers. And that's why I called you. I mean, you know, we. We've done Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, John Force dirt racers, bike racers, you know, you name it. And so you're part of an elite group. And we've done about 120 of these. And Dale Jr. And Mike Davis, they called me up. No texting. Called me up. Herman. We like that Kenny Conversation. So it. It goes over there on Dirty Mo Media podcast, and, of course, Herman Schraders every week. And you do it. You work hard, too, buddy.

[Tommy Baldwin]

It's fun, man. I have fun. I have fun messing with people.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, you're. You're the best at it. Okay, everybody, until the next Kenny Conversation. We'll see y' all next time.

[Tommy Baldwin]

Goodbye, you guys. Thanks, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, Tick tock, and Instagram. A vacation rental shouldn't come with surprises. It should come with verbo Care and 24. 7 Life Support. If the hot tub's broken, that's a verbo care thing.

[DSW Announcer]

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[Kenny Wallace]

that's a family thing. Leslie, verbo care and 24. 7 live support. If you know you've erbo terms apply. Cvrbo.com trust for details.