Ward Burton: The Great Outdoors, Crown Jewel Wins, & The State of NASCAR

Summary

Podcast Summary: Herm & Schrader Episode: Ward Burton: The Great Outdoors, Crown Jewel Wins, & The State of NASCAR
Release Date: April 24, 2025
Hosts: Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader
Guest: Ward Burton

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1. Introduction and Early Life

[02:10] Kenny Wallace: Kenny warmly welcomes Ward Burton, expressing excitement over finally having him on the show after years of anticipation.

[02:45] Ward Burton: Ward shares insights about his new YouTube show, Crossroads with the Burtons, highlighting the challenges of transitioning his passion for the outdoors into a televised format. He emphasizes his dedication to accurately portraying his love for nature and conservation.

[05:13] Ward Burton: Discusses his upbringing in South Boston, Virginia. Ward recalls moving from Danville due to the lack of a child delivery center in Halifax County, marking the unexpected start of his life.

[06:49] Ward Burton: Reflects on growing up in the 60s and 70s, enjoying vast outdoor spaces that fostered his independence and love for nature. He reminisces about early racing experiences with his father, which laid the foundation for his future career.

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2. Family and Personal Growth

[08:16] Kenny Wallace: Kenny draws parallels between the Wallace and Burton families, noting similarities in their upbringings and family dynamics.

[10:15] Ward Burton: Highlights his younger brother, Brian Burton, who successfully runs the family’s construction business, emphasizing the importance of hard work and honesty instilled by their grandfather.

[12:15] Ward Burton: Shares amusing anecdotes about his childhood adventures, including taming snakes and his fearless nature, which translate into his confident racing style.

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3. Transition to Wildlife Conservation

[14:31] Ward Burton: Ward delves into a pivotal moment in his 20s when he left college to live in a tobacco barn, seeking peace and a deeper connection with nature. This period of introspection led him to establish the Ward Burton Wildlife Foundation.

[17:36] Ward Burton: Explains the mission of his foundation, focusing on land conservation and supporting military bases through sustainable practices. He recounts receiving the Governor's Environmental Excellence Award in 2008, a testament to his impactful work.

[23:01] Ward Burton: Ward emphasizes the importance of giving back and supporting causes greater than oneself, highlighting his foundation's growth to nearly a million dollars in annual budgets and its ongoing projects.

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4. Racing Career Highlights

4.1 Southern 500 Victory [36:20] Kenny Wallace: Celebrates Ward’s 2001 Southern 500 win, likening it to the Masters in golf due to its prestige.

[36:52] Ward Burton: Details the challenges and strategy behind the win, including overcoming technical issues with his car and making decisive moves during the race to secure victory.

4.2 Daytona 500 Triumph [55:56] Ward Burton: Recounts winning the 2002 Daytona 500, describing the intense competition and strategic maneuvering that led to his triumph. He reflects on the teamwork and preparation that made the victory possible.

[60:55] Ward Burton: Expresses gratitude for the racing team's efforts and the collaborative spirit that underpinned his successes on the track.

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5. Sponsorships and NASCAR's Evolution

[63:12] Ward Burton: Discusses the significance of sponsorships like Caterpillar, WBNA, and Hardee’s during his racing days. He contrasts the straightforward sponsorship landscape of the past with today's complex and expensive environment.

[65:07] Ward Burton: Critiques the current business model in NASCAR, highlighting how increasing costs have made it difficult for drivers to maintain sponsorship, thereby affecting the sport's accessibility and sustainability.

[68:28] Kenny Wallace: Agrees with Ward’s perspective, referencing insights from former crew chief Felix Sabates about the financial strains on modern NASCAR teams. They lament the shift from personalized sponsorships to more corporate-driven funding models.

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6. Throwback Weekend at Darlington

[41:04] Kenny Wallace: Discusses the recent Throwback Weekend at Darlington, where Ward wore his original 1994 fire suit, sparking nostalgia among fans.

[42:30] Ward Burton: Shares the story behind the fire suit, retrieved from his basement, and his collaboration with his son Jeb to don the iconic attire. He expresses appreciation for the event's ability to honor NASCAR's rich history and engage with longtime fans.

[50:59] Kenny Wallace: Highlights the presence of racing legends like Donnie Allison at the event, underscoring the sense of community and legacy within NASCAR.

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7. Personal Anecdotes and Family Insights

[44:22] Ward Burton: Opens up about his relentless fitness regimen, maintaining his health to stay competitive both on and off the track. He attributes his discipline to a lifelong commitment to physical activity.

[74:36] Kenny Wallace: Reflects on cherished memories with Ward, including interactions with Ward's children Jeb, Sarah, and Ashton, illustrating the close-knit bonds within the racing community.

[75:46] Kenny Wallace: Recalls a heartwarming story of Jeb Burton reaching for his ice cream cone at Pocono, symbolizing the playful and supportive relationships within the families of NASCAR drivers.

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8. Reflections on NASCAR Today and Future Outlook

[72:01] Ward Burton: Provides a candid assessment of NASCAR's current state, acknowledging the sport's enduring appeal but advocating for adjustments to its business model to ensure its future sustainability. He calls for broader sharing of TV revenue and more support for team owners.

[73:21] Kenny Wallace: Concludes the discussion by emphasizing the need for NASCAR to adapt to changing financial landscapes, ensuring that talented drivers can continue to compete without being overwhelmed by sponsorship pressures.

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9. Closing Remarks

[76:50] Kenny Wallace: Encourages listeners to follow Ward Burton's endeavors through Dirty Mo Media's platforms and expresses gratitude for Ward’s participation. Ward reciprocates the appreciation, wishing Kenny well and acknowledging the swift passage of time during their conversation.

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Notable Quotes

• Ward Burton [05:35]: "When I look back on it, that started my love and my direction my whole life with the freedom that I had to explore."

• Ward Burton [14:31]: "Racing found me about three years later and led me down this path while we're talking now. So I was very, very fortunate."

• Ward Burton [23:01]: "We all have the ability to make a difference, have a small or big impact for others and for other causes, and that's what we're supposed to do."

• Kenny Wallace [38:45]: "You're going to hit the wall hard."

• Ward Burton [39:00]: "I knew clearly at those two tracks and, and Tommy and them were able to give it to me. And that's how we won that race that day."

• Kenny Wallace [65:07]: "Jeff has proven it time and time again with his companies... It works."

• Ward Burton [72:01]: "The sport still works like it always works for companies. ... But, you know, the same pieces. So I love that they got the same pieces."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Kenny Wallace and Ken Schrader engage in an in-depth conversation with NASCAR legend Ward Burton. They explore Ward's journey from his adventurous childhood in Virginia to his successful racing career and his profound commitment to wildlife conservation. Ward provides insightful reflections on the evolution of NASCAR, emphasizing the need for sustainable business practices to preserve the sport's future. Personal stories and heartfelt anecdotes offer listeners a glimpse into Ward's life beyond the track, highlighting the importance of family, fitness, and philanthropy. This episode serves as both a celebration of Ward Burton's achievements and a critical examination of the challenges facing modern NASCAR.

Transcript

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[Kenny Wallace]

Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation. Brought to you by jags, the leader in high performance aftermarket car parts. Remember to go to JEGS.com for anything you need to fix your everyday vehicle up or even your hot rod. Man, you are looking at him. I have been waiting for two, three years to get this man. Ward. Burton.

[Ward Burton]

Ward.

[Kenny Wallace]

How you doing?

[Ward Burton]

You just waited to get me to make sure that you had everyone else that was more in priority than me is what you wanted.

[Kenny Wallace]

Stop it. Stop it. No way. Hey, listen, we're gonna have a good time and we got so much to talk about, but I want to give you a shout out and your boy Jeb. I really like that YouTube show that you all have called Crossroads with the Burtons. I. I just watched it before we came on. That looks like a load of fun for you. Do you enjoy it?

[Ward Burton]

It's taken a lot of getting used to. So you know it's it's on the Sportsman Channel. And then once the. The Sportsman Channel owns the original new, you know, shows that we do, and then the old ones we can put on the YouTube or use it anyway. But Sportsman Channel has been a great opportunity to show an outdoor lifestyle. Wbwf, my foundation, gets a lot of great exposure, land management practices, jobs, racing. So it's really up a gamut of what our lives are like. But, Kenny, it's. It's taken a lot to get used to because the outdoors means a lot to me, and it's my whole life, and I want to every time, say it just right and do it just right, and it's impossible. So, you know, it's like with you, you're so good at just being you and being, you know, which. Which is just that the Kenny Wallace laugh. People love that it's hard to feel comfortable with something you care about so much. So I'm learning to get better all the time.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, I think you're naturally good and, and I know that you and I talked, you know, before we did this, and you've always said that, you know, you don't want to be bragged on. And we're going to get to this at the end of the show. Everybody but Ward, I do want to talk to you later on about the Ward Burton Wildlife Foundation. You know, I studied up one. Yes. Like, I show everybody. I. I got two pages of notes here. I got two pages of notes. And, boy, you. You do have it going on at the Ward Burton Wildlife foundation. And yes, sir, I'm extremely impressed. But let's, let's go with racing right away because that's why you're so popular, but you are doing good things, and I admire that about you because you, you are. You're different in so many ways. You can race and do other things. All right, let's start like this. Born in Danville, Virginia, but you consider South Boston, Virginia, your home. Do you remember moving from Danville to South Boston?

[Ward Burton]

They didn't have a child delivery care center in Halifax county, where South Boston is. So when my mom unexpectedly got pregnant from my dad, they had, they had to have me in Danville. And then they drove back to their apartment at South Austin.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'm holding my laughing. We've already got started off on the right.

[Ward Burton]

Well, hey, man, you know, there's a lot of us came in this world as not being planned, and I'm damn sure one of them.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, I know they're happy that they had you.

[Ward Burton]

Maybe, maybe they were at time, but it was other time they sent me away a many times.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, I sure am happy, you know, to be your friend. Know you. I know we don't talk happy. You're. Yeah, but you're. You're awesome. You really are for so many reasons. And everybody asked me, man, get Ward Burton, you know, on the show. And I'm so thankful that we do. Let's. All right. I know that, you know, with the Wallace family, there's Rusty, Mike, Kenny, it's all boys. And when I look at your family, you got your brother Jeff. And then there's the quiet one, Brian, man, I want to talk about him in a little bit because we don't get to see him. Everybody wants to know about the one we don't know, but.

[Ward Burton]

Right. What.

[Kenny Wallace]

What was it like, what was your. What was it like growing up in. In. In that house with your mom and dad and your brother Jeff and. And Brian.

[Ward Burton]

Man, Growing up in the 60s and 70s in southern Virginia, we had the most grand upbringing with so much freedom as a child looking back on it, and grandparents didn't live far away. So, you know, we are the classic symptoms of me being the oldest. The oldest. And if you look it up what the oldest normally is, that's me, alpha male. If you look up Brian and what the normal middle brother Brian, that's Braun, without a shadow of a doubt. And if you look up what the youngest is with Jeff, it's Jeff. And Jeff actually sent me on my phone something that one of the TV channels had that said that Jeff did an unhappy face to win it. But I mean, we just had, man, we had just a classic growing up, me being the oldest. You know, think of this when I'm five and a half, here comes this, here comes my mom in the house with this new little human being. I remember it like it was yesterday, really. It was Jeff Burton.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's great.

[Ward Burton]

And I'm thinking here, here we go again. I already got Brian. So Brian is almost three. And so, you know, all of a sudden there's an infant that. That allowed me, looking back, to have so much freedom outside the house. Because outside the house was 100 acres of forest, woods, creeks and wildlife habitat where my two beagles live. So when I look back on it, that started my love and my direction my whole life with the freedom that I had to explore. But the three of us, man, to get to where I know you want to go, dad took me to a go kart track when I was eight. I had a two seater go kart that I Would ride around the yard. And dad took me over there, said, would you like to do that one weekend? Sure. The next weekend we went there and won the race. So from there on, it was all three of us. Once Brian and Jeff got old enough for my dad's passion of being competitive, whatever it was, in motorsports, to watch what we did in the summer other than play baseball and other sports, that we all did. And that's what led us into making a living driving race cars. And Brian did exactly what Brian said he was going to do his whole life, Kenny. And that was to run the construction company that my granddad founded in 1936 that my dad owned. And now Brian runs it now and is carrying on the exact same tradition, living by the code, being honest and having a successful business. So my quiet brother Brian and the middle kid syndrome has done a wonderful job of carrying on the Burton legacy in the commercial construction business.

[Kenny Wallace]

You know, you bring up a good point. Because I didn't realize how much our Wallace family and the Burton family is alike. Because Rusty's like. Rusty's like you. You're the badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Mike is like, hey, I want to do what you and Herman are doing. And Mike. But one thing that intrigues me is when I was a kid, we had creeks around here and I loved my creeks because I could, you know, find a little minnow ponds. You know, there wasn't always, there wasn't always water flow and you'd find a minnow pond. Amanda be minnows in there. Then I had my little BB gun. It. It was a good time in life where, I mean, we'd leave the house at 10 in the morning, not come back till dark. Is that the way it was for you?

[Ward Burton]

Yes, sir. Yeah, I mean I, I knew, I knew the, the rocks where the crayfish would be under.

[Kenny Wallace]

I love.

[Ward Burton]

I learned how to catch chipmunks and put them in my drawers. Black, you know, snakes. Nobody ever taught me to be afraid of anything in the outdoors. And I knew at an early age distinctively what could harm me and what couldn't. I don't remember anybody ever telling me where I lived. There was a diamond snake they called a copperhead that was poisonous. But I somehow another knew. So I can remember the first time I walked in the house with my pet 6 foot long black snake. Oh Lord, I'm about that tall. And everybody scattered and I looked around like what just happened? So now I still get kicks and giggles at showing these snakes on these crazy social media platforms. And I'M just trying to say, look at this little dude. There's no reason to chop his head off because you see him in your yard.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

He's just doing his business and he might actually be able to help you keep some mice and stuff away.

[Kenny Wallace]

Anyway, yeah, you, you came in the house with the snake, looking for a bologna and cheese sandwich.

[Ward Burton]

And everybody probably, hey, at show and tell at the third grade, I went in there with this. It wasn't the same snake with a snake wrapped around my neck for show and tail and, and the teachers made me go, let him loose. So we had an early show and tell.

[Kenny Wallace]

I, I gotta tell you, one of your videos, you know, handful of months ago, went viral and everybody was having fun with it. You just, you just grabbed a snake like it was nothing. It was all over social media, and all of us are like, holy moly. But now we know. You know, there was a guy named Paul Harvey years ago that did some radio, and he said, and that's the rest of the story. And now we know why you easily just pick up snakes, because you and I are a little alike, but you're way more woodsman than I. But we loved it as kids, and I think it was a wonderful time in life to go out there.

[Ward Burton]

Our generation. So how old are you? What year you're born?

[Kenny Wallace]

August 23, 1963. I know you're just a little bit older than me.

[Ward Burton]

Being brought up in the, in the 60s and the 70s, man, we, the parents didn't have the nightmares and, and hear all the horror stories and maybe there's less crazy people back then. I don't know.

[Kenny Wallace]

We do. We. We stayed busy is what it was, Ward.

[Ward Burton]

We did.

[Kenny Wallace]

We stayed busy. Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

We were taught to work, too, but, man, the amount of freedom that we had, we just, we just had a lot and, and it taught us independence, right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

So. So those, those experiences I'm talking about, because all of a sudden I got this little midget that comes from a hospital named Jeff there. Little midget that, you know, my mom couldn't keep up with all three of us.

[Kenny Wallace]

Right.

[Ward Burton]

It gave, it gave my. It gave me a lot of freedom to just be comfortable and outdoors. And there was a time, Kenny, when I didn't know where my life was going. When I was in my 20s, when I quit college and I called my dear friend C.R. sanders, that owned this 1100 acres I call the COVID that now my foundation owns. Can I go live in this tobacco barn? And I quit college, I sold my motorcycle and I took my knapsack. And I went and lived there for almost two years. And I went to exactly what I knew, and that was the outdoors, because I'm at peace and I just needed to. I just need to get peace. And what was going to come later, I didn't have that. I did not know. I did not know. But racing found me about three years later and led me down this path while we're talking now. So I was very, very fortunate. But I had, man, I had some of the coolest role models. I made this tombstone for my buddy. There's only a few people in the world that know where it is. And it says, you are the role model that every child longs to have. Through this land, you will be remembered forever. And he gave me the freedom and taught me about stewardship, even though he really wasn't a conservationist. He had been in the Korean War and it fought, fought from hill to hill, ridge to ridge, and this place is sort of shaped like that. And he said, I need, I need a hill of freedom. And so if people wonder why I spend much so much time on particular pieces of property, I was the last one to speak to two gentlemen in this life and they both said, do what you said you were going to do, son. And I would never let them down. So I'm stewards of the property, my foundation noted. But I'm going to make it the best I can while I'm here for all mother Nature, all wildlife. And you know, hell, man, that, that kind of story drives me. It gives me heart, it gives me meaning. So when I wake up every morning, I'm driven like a madman. I've got this little blink of time and I'm trying and make it the big impact I can. And that, that's always been my life, man.

[Kenny Wallace]

Hey, this is Dalenhart Jr. And for the latest Herman Schrader gear, you need to go to shop.dirtymomedia.com We've got plenty of options for everybody and we're adding new stuff all the time. So go to shop.dirtymomedia.com Creativity is at.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Let's just stay right here, everybody. Let's just stay right in this lane. And we're going to move the racing back just a little bit here. We're talking the ward Burton Daytona 500 winner, Southern 500 winner. So let's stay right here because we know a lot about your racing and we're going to get down to more of it. But the Ward Burton Wildlife foundation, here's what it says. It says you have conserved over 45,000 acres in Virginia and Pennsylvania. And, and I want to introduce you kind of this way because you've won all types of awards. I mean, everybody admires what you're doing. But the one that really impressed me was the Governor's Environmental Excellence Award in 2008. So what was it? Your childhood and that story you just told us, is that what drove you this. How did we start? The Ward Burton Wildlife foundation won the race at Rockingham.

[Ward Burton]

And my lawyer, my good friend Bill Watts and I had been discussing what could I do to make a difference for natural resources. I had some friends with us, Fish and Wildlife Service, Department of Game and Fisheries. And because there hadn't been a driver foundation set up yet, and, you know, the sport was very popular, very. They convinced me to name it what we did. Yeah, they convinced me to name it after me because it would bring notoriety to the efforts. So that's, that's, that's all it was. I had a lot of people influencing me because I've been bringing up the idea there's got to be. I could not. I could not leave behind some things that so precious as our natural resources. When I'm in the middle of a sport that's got so much ability to get the message out because it's, it means so. I mean, I was so grounded. You got. I'm in my 30s by this time, so. So anyway, I set it up to do one single thing, period, was to make a difference for natural resources. That's it. And we're still doing it. Today we're taking care of military bases. By the end of the year, we'll be in Wyoming, Pennsylvania, Quantico, Fort Barfoot. That's a wonderful opportunity to pay landowners to keep their land in compatible use while also protecting our national security by protecting the military missions on these military bases. So I love that because we're all very much supportive of our military anyway, so we deal with generals and colonels and base commanders. We just had a meeting at Fort Barfoot last week because there's some threats and my foundation going to help them take these threats away from their military mission by practicing conservation. So, man, it's been a dream come true. But you know, Kenny, I'm never satisfied. So we're just starting. We got so much more we're going to accomplish and to be driven to work on these military missions while still doing conservation practices on property, it's great for me because I keep calluses on my hands and I love, I love working. Brought up working. So it's turned into a, a labor of love, man. And you know, my whole family's involved too. They're, they're, they're helping and providing resources. Got a lot of, a lot of people to think we've grown a ton. I mean our, our annual budgets, almost a million dollars a year now. So I work my butt off so this thing will live down the road. They'll keep making a difference and nobody got to go through the blood, sweat and tear that I did to get it to this point.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, you, you practice what you preach. I see it.

[Ward Burton]

And hey, it's without my fountain, without the racing. Yeah, without the racing funding I was making, it would have never survived. I understand, really, I owe all this to the sport. Without the sport, I would have never had the resources. I mean the NBA in America as an example, they helped. I mean, without the sport, none of it would have, none of it would have happened. But I would have been, I would have been a two faced, you know what? Not to use the sport to try to make a difference or something that doesn't have a voice for itself. And that's our natural resources. We have to, all of us together give our giving natural resources a voice.

[Kenny Wallace]

I find the woods very peaceful. I would go in there and take a hatchet and a shovel and I would make motorcycle trails on my own. I want to say this though. The Governor Environmental Excellent Award was in 2008. But, and I'm going to read this, I want everybody to hear this. Before that, before 2008, on November 1st, 2005. Then the Virginia governor at that time, Mark Warner, appointed you, Ward Burton, to the Virginia, as you mentioned already, Board of Game at Inland Fisheries. And, you know, as a resident of Halifax County, Virginia, Ward Burton assumed a seat on the board for Virginia's 5th congressional district that was formerly held by C. Wilson McNeely, who resigned after six years of service. And then I want to end like this, Ward. It says Burton, an avid sportsman and conservationist, is the founder and president of what is, you know, the Ward Burton Found Life Foundation. And this is incredible right here. You have been a spokesperson person for Virginia's. Listen to this, everybody. 34 state parks since 2003. I mean, my friend, you. You are getting it done. And. And your list goes on and on and on. You've been doing this for quite a while now. So congratulations, Ward.

[Ward Burton]

Thank you.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're making everybody proud of you. And. All right, we've.

[Ward Burton]

I'll just say this. Thank you. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't like awards, and I don't like. I don't need cheerleaders with pom poms. We all need to be. We all are passionate about something, and you are. I'm very lucky to have direction in my life, but I think we all enjoy, and we get a lot more gratitude, personally, by giving to others, giving to causes that's more important than ourselves.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, it's awesome.

[Ward Burton]

It feels so good. So we. We all. We all have the ability to make a difference, have a small or big for others and. And for other causes, and that's what we're supposed to do. Right?

[Kenny Wallace]

Right. 100. There's no doubt. Okay. It's time to move on to the racing world. You know, just off the top of my head, it is amazing how fast of a race car driver you are, you know, because you're calm, you're in the woods. And you talked about living in that barn for a couple years and finding peace, but yet you go on the racetrack. And I will never forget, and I want to. I want to talk about this moment specifically. You drove so fast. When it was time to qualify for any cup race, all of us would get on top of our truck and trailers because Ward's getting ready to qualify. And we're going to talk about those great sponsors you had in just a minute here, specifically three Caterpillar, WBNA and Hardee's. But I want to go to that. I want to go to Darlington. Everybody knew you were fast in practice. Okay? And by the way, everybody, we are now switching to racing. As Ward says, racing is what made it able for you to really get into conservation. So.

[Ward Burton]

Yep.

[Kenny Wallace]

So you're qualifying and I'll never forget this, and this is why I'm bringing it up because it is burnt into my head forever. We know you're going to set quick time in the cup race because you're so fast and practice and what was at that time, turn four for all of us. You're wide open and we're like, holy moly, look at this. He's got a hell of a lap going. You come off a four and that thing spun like a top. And it wasn't the spin out that was the big deal. You hit the wall so hard it burst into flames. Tell me about that very famous moment in time for all of nascar. It was vicious looking. Tell me about that qualifying run.

[Ward Burton]

Well, we had set the track record to lap the. I think that was a spring race to fall before I got through 1 and 2 the same like I needed to. I didn't listen to my rear end.

[Kenny Wallace]

You were loose.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah, that, that, that. You know, every time when you don't, when you don't listen to your end, the consequences are good. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

You knew you were loose.

[Ward Burton]

I wrecked coming off of four, but it started way over there in the middle of. Middle of three and four with the bump. Because I was already wide open over the bump. The right rear didn't hold up and all I had to do was just. But no, no, I'm going to keep a foot in. So you saw the wreck off of turn four, but it happened 200 yards back.

[Kenny Wallace]

As Harry Gantt would say, you were swarping way exactly.

[Ward Burton]

So, hey, man, you know, it's one of the things I always told Jeb. When Jeb was starting, when, when he would do something, I said, so, so what, what, what did the car tell you before I actually saw. He said, well, I was already turning right.

[Kenny Wallace]

I said, no, you're already loose.

[Ward Burton]

So I mean, I, I did it to myself, you know, I tore up the car. I would have still run a good lap. I just, I just didn't listen to what my butt was telling me and always made some errors like that, I guess. But you know, we learned back in those days, heck, Kenny, we had what, hour and a half of practice and then everybody got the single lap. Qualifying was a whole day.

[Kenny Wallace]

Whole day.

[Ward Burton]

A whole day changing motors. Then round two, second day. So anyway, that was just one of the crashes. I crashed a whole lot of things over the years.

[Kenny Wallace]

So, you know, you, you Said it right just now. And when I came into nascar, David ift, my crew chief, you know, he was Kale Yarborough's crew chief. And he said, boy, he said, we got two races qualifying and the race, and that's the way it was back in our day. You know, I poke fun at that because back in our day. But Ward, we're like the Beatles. We're becoming famous again because these people, they love our day. And in. In our day, you had to know at. At Darlington, on that day, when it was time to qualify, did you know in your heart, in your ears, did you know that the whole garage area was talking about you? You didn't know it?

[Ward Burton]

No, but, you know, I hate. There was a time there, not necessarily then, that when we showed up at Darlington, I was going to be somewhere near the top of the board. Oh, yeah, we. We had. We had just figured out I like the track a lot, and I could get it around there one lap most of the time anyway. But we had. We had good race cars for the race. But, you know, at the same time, Kenny, your best cars, normally your primary and. What is the right word? We would. You would put 99%. Most. I mean, some of us could get away with a single lap, giving it 99 cent and not craft or very often. Right.

[Kenny Wallace]

The tires were so sticky for us back then.

[Ward Burton]

Some. Some people were better at than others. But when you do that, the team in particular is going to pay the price every now and then. That was one of the ones. I. I didn't. I don't. You didn't crash that much. Most. Most of us didn't crash a lot in qualifying, but when you go for it, man, you know, yeah, you got to leave a little bit out there because you don't want to have to go to a backup car. But you still. It's a race within itself.

[Kenny Wallace]

One thing I liked on Crossroads with. With the Burtons is when we were, you know, when I was listening to you on your show with. With Jeb, you said, the great Dale Earnhardt Senior, you know, the man in black, number three, that you were so fast at Darlington, you know, when we all unloaded that you went. You passed, you know, Dale Earnhardt, they always said, follow the number three. Follow Earnhardt. And you said, well, hell, I passed him. And then what did he come down and say to your team after that was.

[Ward Burton]

So what you were watching, that was Jeff's podcast.

[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, okay.

[Ward Burton]

So Jeff. Jeff come up with this idea of him and I doing a podcast every two Weeks. That was. That was brought up when.

[Kenny Wallace]

What's the name of that. Of that podcast? That's the one. I was watching it. Just his podcast. That's okay. Well, tell me about that. Earnhardt. Earnhardt, come down to your. Your.

[Ward Burton]

He didn't come tell me. Could. You know how Arnold was. He's never going to show any emotion. Anyway, he went and told one of my crew members that used to work with Tommy Ellis. Oh, Bill. He went because he recognized Bill Smith, that he said if he had my car and somebody else's motor, he would lap the field. But, you know, I can't remember. It was one of the first times I'd ever been to Darlington.

[Kenny Wallace]

But that meant a lot to you, Earnhardt saying that when you heard it.

[Ward Burton]

Well, you still remember it. Yeah, Arnhardt had this, you know, the sanctioning body pretty much worshiped him. I. I can remember, like, that interview that Ricky Rudd did about, about the wreck at New Hampshire when, When they got together, going on the last lap. Yeah, with Mr. France. Rod said, well, I should have put the SOB over the wall. And Mr. France find him the next day. You know how it was, man, the 3 car. The 3 car puts you over the fence. It's just. It's just racing. If you put the three car over the fence, it's like, God, God, God just came up with a bad lightning storm.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh, my God. I can. I can hear Felix Sabatis right now. The 3 car do whatever he want. That's what Felix would say. Well, listen, I'll never forget that time. It was, you know, you ended up wrecking out, but, boy, you made some incredible memories in the NASCAR world, and that's what we're going to move on to right now. Ward, you know, like I said earlier in the show, I know you don't like to be bragged on, but, my friend, you've done some really big things in nascar. You've won some of its biggest races on all. All the tracks. You've won at Daytona, what you've won at. At the Southern 500, you've won it. What? Loud New Hampshire, you got five cup wins. And. And that's hard to do. Let's start with the. Let's start in chronological order. 2001, you win basically our hardest race to win Besides the Daytona 500. 2001, you're the winner of the Southern 500. What do you remember about winning, you know, our granddaddy? I mean, it's. It's like the Masters, you know, I. I know Daytona Is a big deal. We're going to get there. Tell me about winning the Southern 500.

[Ward Burton]

Well, we. Me and Tommy and Joe Lacks, we. We got a good shock package. We got set up and this started. This started in the latter part of 98 and 99. So we finished second to Jeff in 99. We really started to get air. Darlington set up where I need it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

And we won two races there. And we should have won four, maybe five, but we were dominant the other two. Rain got us one pit stop, guys. Another. Yeah, we really ought to had four wins. And I mean, I would have had to have made a mistake not to win those races. So the Southern 500, man, we got. We got all sync with a pit stop and the caution kept coming out. For whatever reason, the car and it did the same thing on qualifying Friday. The car wouldn't. The car was very hesitant and slow to responding to steering angle the first two corners. And then it worked. And I was better than the competition. My nose would turn, I had forward bite. And if you watch that race, people were really gaining in on me and I was really having to be defensive and give them room. They're getting under me and all that for two corners. And then. Then I'm marching forward. And we had gone five or six laps. It wasn't that much further to go. Got a really good one off in the middle of three. And Bobby Labonte was struggling anyway. And I could see it. My car got better while we were making the cat call. My car got better the more laps we put on it compared to the competition. Yeah, my nose continued to turn. So. So, you know, how you at Darlington, man? To be good. I'm aiming for the wall. I'm not sliding to the wall, but I've had cars where I'm literally sliding and you're adjusting for the slide, which is hard as hell to do.

[Kenny Wallace]

You're going to hit the wall hard.

[Ward Burton]

You had on both ways of sliding that. That those tires are not gonna. They turning, but they're just sliding versus the car where I'm directing the car.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, well said.

[Ward Burton]

And man, that's the same for Rockingham. Those places that wear the tires out. It was just really simple to me, what I needed the car to do to do well. And if they could give it. It was very. It's very clear and simple versus like some mile and a half where you got the arrow going on. You got all these feelings there. I didn't have any of. It was always black and white. If they could give me what I needed. I could win the race.

[Kenny Wallace]

You knew what you needed. You knew what you needed.

[Ward Burton]

I knew clearly at those two tracks and, and Tommy and them were able to give it to me. And that's, that's how we won that. That's how we won that race that day.

[Kenny Wallace]

That's really good. It's really a good breakdown to even young kids that are listening to this right now about how to explain to your crew chief, if I was your crew chief right now and the way you just explained to me that, you know, we always hear people say my car's pushing, you know, but it always starts on entry.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, let, let's, let's move on a little bit with Darlington right now. So you, you win the 2001 Southern 500. But, but I want to stay right now before we moved on to Daytona. Right now we're talking and you know, the Southern, you know, Darlington just got over a week or two ago and we had throwback weekend at Darlington and Charlie's gonna post that picture right now. Damn, man. What year's. You're of age now but you. For throwback weekend at Darlington. That just happened here right now. 20, 25. You put your fire suit on and now you, you look now. Is that your old fire suit you wore?

[Ward Burton]

Oh, hell yeah. That was. Jeff found it. I got this closet in the basement. It must have 30 fire suits. And Jeff found it and that's what he copied his Simpson suit off of.

[Kenny Wallace]

That is incredible. And you know, Charlie just.

[Ward Burton]

It had. It still had. Who's a tower because that was 94.

[Kenny Wallace]

I love this. So you make every man in America right now feel like total crap because here you are, 63 years old and you, you, you fit in your fire suit from 19, would you say 94. That's incredible.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

How are you able to keep the weight off of you? Are you just hyper even though you seem to be.

[Ward Burton]

Look, my whole life, my whole life I would talk to work. Yeah. And even my story is. No, not unique to anybody. We, we were, we were physical with kids, man. We're playing baseball, riding motorcycles. Physical. Even when I went to college, during the middle of all the partying and the chasing the girl, I still ran. I swam twice. Twice a week in the gym, a mile, which is 36 times back. So I've always been, I've always wanted to keep myself in shape. I got a gym in my house. I ran a mile and a half this morning and I was on the weights for 30 minutes. I do that every single day. But that's not counting this week. I got a mark trees that we're going to harvest. I've been burning and sometimes burning gets out of burning can. Things can happen. So next thing you know, I'm exerting myself. I keep my metabolism moving, man. My metabolism. I'm fighting all the time to stay 145 to 150. But I'm drink. I might have to drink weight gain shakes. I might, I might have to make myself eat because I'm burning, I'm burning calories. That's all it is. I'm, I'm no different anybody else, but we all are different. But if you want, if you don't want to get, if you don't want to get heavy, which, if I got heavy, it's going to make me feel bad. It's going to make me lazy. I'm not going to have my energy. You just got to keep your metabolism going.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

I mean there's enough stuff out there you could google. It doesn't matter what your body shape is, your age. So to get in that fire suit, I didn't know whether it's suit, but I know damn well I've been the same weight my whole damn life. I put on weight when I started running cup cars because you know how, you know how much we sweat.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. So you're ready.

[Ward Burton]

Still got that extra six or seven pounds. And I, I feel it when I like I used to smoke cigarettes and the older I got, the more I was burnt. I, I quit three years ago.

[Kenny Wallace]

I never Knew you smoked. You hit very well.

[Ward Burton]

I hid. I hid around the track and smokes.

[Kenny Wallace]

But Dale Earnhardt Jr. Would smoke. He would hide in his motorhome and I'd go up in. I'm like, damn, I didn't know you smoked. Well, you did a good job at hiding it, man.

[Ward Burton]

I saw a T shirt at Darlington signing autographs with Lake Speed. This guy, this guy had a Dick Trickle shirt on.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ward Burton]

With the open face with a tip with a Marlboro. Excuse me. It would have had to been a Winston. Winston. That was the coolest T shirt.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, I never seen a T shirt.

[Ward Burton]

With a driver having a cigarette burning.

[Kenny Wallace]

And then, and then when you and I were racing Trickle, we knew things were going to get serious. We, we get ready to come green flag. And you see him, Dick trick, he flicked that cigarette out, out the windows like, oh, we going green flag, baby.

[Ward Burton]

Nobody messed with Dick Trickle. Hey, man, you know, he's the only guy. You know how hot it was at Talladega in July. I mean, that damn place, man, you, you could hang your suit up and it'd be dripping. Yeah, I would be hard rating food for days in preparation for this sporting event and been up drinking beer all night and sitting there with black coffee and driver introduction smoking Terrapton cigarettes before the damn race.

[Kenny Wallace]

We're sitting there drinking water and sports drinking.

[Ward Burton]

I don't. I'm not going to say it. Help him run. Very good.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, but that's what he did.

[Ward Burton]

That's what he did.

[Kenny Wallace]

Dick trickle was 40 years old and he was the NASCAR cup rookie of the year at the Waldorf Astoria in New York. What a legend. And I sure do miss him.

[Ward Burton]

Hey, what are some tough guys, man thinking of? Thinking of old time. Like Dave Marcus with his wingtip shoes, man, look, I had, I had the shoes on fire.

[Kenny Wallace]

Shoes.

[Ward Burton]

I took the same shoes on that Jeff convinced me to take this Hardy. And you know what it was? I wonder what was going on on the bottom of them. It was because the bottom of them had melted so many times the damn heel wasn't on it. Because that's how damn. We didn't have no carbon 5 on the bottom of these damn race cars. That's how hot the bop. The floorboard got back in them someday.

[Kenny Wallace]

Remember, Ward, when they would say, we got this special insulation for your guys race cars. NASA made it and you remember it come along. It was that insulation they'd put on the floor. But I mean, we innovate. We would burn ourselves. I mean, like you. I got marks on my legs right now. We paved the way for these guys to have it easy, didn't we, man?

[Ward Burton]

Right there. Yeah. You couldn't pick up your brake foot.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

I mean, I got. I got permanent marks on both of my heels.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes.

[Ward Burton]

Just heat. It's just so much heat.

[Kenny Wallace]

We're scarred, and we. We would not pull in. You. You'd have to kill us for us to pull off the racetrack.

[Ward Burton]

Oh, you're not coming off no damn racetrack. No, no. But anyway, I got off subject, but.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, no, you're right on subject. You're. Because we're talking about throwback weekend and you fitting into that hardy suit that Charlie's already showed here. That. Tell me about throwback weekend right now. Like I said, It's 2025. You know, there was a lot of. Now, let's talk about modern era right now. There's. There was a little controversy and. And I don't blame it on Chase Elliot because the. In the media room, one of the media people said, hey, Chase Elliot, it seems like throwback week is losing its luster. And Chase Elliott said, I thought it was losing it five years ago now. Now you just got back from there. I was there last year. I didn't go this year. Tell me your perspective. What do you think about throwback weekend at Darlington?

[Ward Burton]

I would say two things. I've always been, I think you agree with this. An admirer of the leadership of Mike Helton.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes. Badass.

[Ward Burton]

Yes. Mike Helton, as far as I'm concerned, started giving people like you and I hard cards years ago so that we could come to the races, whether your kids in the race or not, without paying the cost that it takes to have a hard car. Cause we're just retired drivers. And it's good for the sport and good for the fans to see the old generation people there. So when I got there this weekend, Amber Wells, who runs the alumni organization that's a brainchild of Mike Helton. It's a good thing I do appearances with the fans. It was with Lake Speed who I really enjoyed hanging out with. I think he. He won the 1977 or the 1987 Darlington Southern 500. And I couldn't hear which one it is, but it was cool to admire him doing. Answering question with fans. And then I'm up next to Ron Hornaday and Mike Skinner, sign autographs, which is cool in that sense also. But cooler than all of that, here comes a real legend, which is Donnie Allison.

[Kenny Wallace]

Wow.

[Ward Burton]

Donnie Allison's one of the favorite people personalities, race car drivers. I've ever met. He's one, he's the last one of the Alabama gang alive.

[Kenny Wallace]

Good point.

[Ward Burton]

Me and Donnie, we hug each other every time we say, I love that man. And for Donnie Allison to have a place to go to come into the Darlington Raceway, which was really one of the Darlington Raceway was at that time, probably more famous in Daytona.

[Kenny Wallace]

I agree, because it was, it was a man's racetrack. I mean, you. To finish the damn race, you had to be a man.

[Ward Burton]

So. So with all that being said at Darlington and then. And then on a personal side, this is all jabs. Jeb and AJ Transports Brainchild to bring in the Hardee's car, which does pop on the track. That blew an orange. You can see that damn blue and orange all the way from one end to the other, which is good. I told Jeb when he first brought up me bringing that suit, I said, you block your mind. I'm not gonna look like a clown and put on this. But as it turned out, for the few people that were there, we did on the back stretch. So nobody, it wasn't a lot of bunch of media. And to do it with my son, with those supporters of his is a fun thing. So I think, man, I saw the 4 car, I saw the X side car. I could keep naming the throwback. I thought the Throwback was alive and well on Saturday's race. I didn't watch Sunday's race, so I.

[Kenny Wallace]

Don'T know, Screw them. Hey, Parker R. I think that's how you say his name. Parker's a. Yeah, neat kid. He had the 4 car.

[Ward Burton]

And it was exactly like Ernie urban called Morgan McClure.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, yeah, I, I agree with you. And I just want to add on to this. It, it's not all about inside the racetrack. Those fans, Lord, they, they, they still got their T shirts and their hats, you know, from those glory days. And when you look. And I know we're not like other sports, I get that. We are not like other sports. However, all other sports, football, baseball, their, Their heroes are at just about at every game. And they have suites at every single game. Baseball, football, they have what they call an alumni suite at every game.

[Ward Burton]

Really.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I, and, and I really want to, I'm like you. I want to thank Mike Hilton, Jim France, for giving us all hard cards and giving us a place to go to. Yes, I, I, I couldn't have said any better. Boy, you, you know, maybe you said there was only a couple people there, but that picture, it went viral. It went everywhere. And I Saw it, man, I just thought that was so awesome. And, and when you told me that was your original fire suit, I thought, man, he's a winner. That, that is awesome. All right, everybody. Southern 500. There he is. The 2001 winner of the Southern 500 Ward Burton.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Okay, I know we've been going long, but man, I appreciate this. Let's go to 2002. Man, this was a famous ass race. Holy moly. 2002 Daytona 500 winner. You're looking at him. And Kyle Petty says it best. When you win the Daytona 500, you're not a winner. It's the only race we got where they call you the Daytona 500 champion. You know, you got the ring, you got the trophy, you're always involved in all the special ceremonies and I think that's awesome. Word. Congratulations on all that. What, what do you remember? Let's do the same thing we did with the Southern 500. What do you remember about winning the 2002 Daytona 500?

[Ward Burton]

Well, thank you for all that. Whenever someone asked me that, I have to remember the O1 race.

[Kenny Wallace]

Oh.

[Ward Burton]

Because we led the most laps there and we had the bad hot rod there. Yeah, we got taken out with a less than 30 laps ago on the back stretch, which took out about 17 of us, which. Which led into the two di cars finishing one and two and obviously Earnhardt situation happening. So the mindset, my mindset going into O2 is I got to finish.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

I mean, knock on it's Just, you know what's going to happen. You know, we. We started off. We didn't have the balance right on this car. On the 125, we didn't have the balance right on the car for. Halfway through the race, Tommy and gang started getting the car handling better for me as. As the race was going on. So the key, the cold key to that day was the 29. Blocked the 24 going into turn one. And I'm not Harvick. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

29 of Harvick blocks.

[Ward Burton]

This was the third damn Tommy block. Because I'm sitting there watching it. I'm right behind the 24. The 24 didn't let him get away with it the last time. So he's spinning, and, man, if you look at the race, I turned the wheel. We go like that. I turned the wheel just enough not to spin myself out. You can see the cars. Y'all out. And he comes right by. So I'm turning down because I know. Anyway, I come on radio right then. I said, we just. We just got our chance.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

And we missed a big one.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

And from there, man, we had some. Some strategy of tired and staying out. We passed Ryan Newman for third coming off of two. So the car was. The car was handling. And then. And then we. And then we had the restart when the 24 blocked the 40.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Yeah. The right stroke.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah. Right front fender. Well, at that time, as you know, before the Dale Jarrett incident at New Hampshire, we walked back to race. Back to the line.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

Sterling barely beat me back to the line, but the right front. The right front tire was not going to make it. He knew it. I damn knew it. Anybody could see it. I even felt very vulnerable racing beside him because the tire was going to blow.

[Kenny Wallace]

You knew he was going to wreck you because it's.

[Ward Burton]

The tire. Can't handle that much fender on it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

So anyway, they stop it on the back stretch, and here goes Sterling after about. We've been back here a couple of minutes. It ain't like he did it right off. I think him and Tony Glover were talking about in. Sterling must have said, let me get out, see if I can pull it out. So if you look back on it, he had. He had to come into pitch. So it was really one of the smartest things I think I've ever seen a racer do. What if he could have gotten it off the fender and not gotten penalized? Yeah, I mean, you know, back then, it was real metal. It would have taken more than his hand to pull it. Up. But looking back, that put us in the lead, but it was pretty smart of Sterling to give it a whirl.

[Kenny Wallace]

Anyway, one of the most famous pictures and moment. And Charlie, Charlie, let's drop that picture right here. You know, one of the most famous moments in Daytona 500 history. And I really admire you for saying, you know, he had to give it a go because he was gonna have to pit anyway because he. Yeah, he's not gonna finish the race, but, man, what a. And, boy, you had some good. You had a good motor builder. I remember Ellage Ellis built the motors at that time. Was that right?

[Ward Burton]

Yeah, that was. That was Terry's. Terry had always wanted to win that race.

[Kenny Wallace]

What a win. What a win. Well, congratulations, Daytona 500 winner. And what is it like? What is it like to spend the night now, at that time, did they put the car in the museum?

[Ward Burton]

Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Is that. Is that a memory you'll never forget? Is that, like, special or do. Have you forgot it.

[Ward Burton]

Man? You know, it's. I'm just like you, Kenny. I'm. I'm a racer. So I appreciate the few times I was able to capitalize on races. I. I also realized it was a lot of. I made a lot of career judgments that probably should have been looked at differently. But at the same time, those moments for the car owner, the team, all of us together, that was. That's the highlight of motorsport. So I was very fortunate to have an opportunity to. To win that race. But we all. We all won the race. It's a team. We all won the race. And I thought I would have had a chance to win more than that race, too, but my career kind of went sideways not many years after that. But, hey, it's neither here nor there. I'm the same with that win or without that win.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, buddy, let me tell you something. I'd cut. I'd cut that bad finger off to. To win one cup race. So I think it's awesome. Okay, we just celebrated two of the biggest wins in NASCAR history for anybody. I want to talk about these sponsors that you had. It appeared from the outside that Ward Burton had the biggest. I don't know about the money. I don't want to talk about the money. But it appeared you had the most famous sponsors in NASCAR history. I mean, you just mentioned Caterpillar. I mean, out of Peoria, Illinois. I mean, Caterpillar Cat. I mean, so famous. Hardee's. I mean, my gosh, Hardee's franchise. And then. Then there was one that I feel personally, this Is my opinion that you made famous, which was the legendary credit card at that time, the wbna. Just talk about these sponsors. You know, when you look back, do you realize how big those sponsors were for you?

[Ward Burton]

Well, it was very, very, very fortunate. You know, back, back in the times that Kenny, we were trying to get companies in the sport or find successful programs. It was a lot simpler back then. You know, a lot of times it'd be one individual make a decision. It wasn't a big board. A lot of times the sponsors were happy with some off track activities. And then the, the sponsorship on the race car and the tv, amount of TV coverage they would get. And it was just so much less expensive than it is now, too. So, you know, the investment wasn't near what it takes now even. I mean, consider this. The most Caterpillar ever paid to Bill Davis Racing.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

Is less now than Joe Gibbs gets for an Xfinity car.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Yeah. So. So I'll debull that. I mean, in our day. Here I go again. But if you, if you got $6 million for a cup car back then, you were big time. That, that was big money. Six million. Now, right now, everybody, what Ward's talking about, you gotta have $20 million a year. If you don't, you're grabbing money from everybody everywhere. But. Yes. And you know, Ward, one thing you said that I liked was that we had sponsors in our day asking us to sponsor us because the TV ratings were through the roof. The whole. I mean, it's like half of America was watching the cup races back then.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah. It was just so many things that were different. I mean, Winston was driving the sport. I mean, the amount of. You couldn't go to a convenience store without seeing 10 to 20 driver endorsed products. Grocery store, it didn't matter where you were. And those things, they still work. They still work. Like, like Terry Labani having Kellogg.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

Still works, man. The show cars, the floor space and on at Food Line. The relationship at Jeb is working with Food Line. With a couple. They, they. They work. It just seemed that corporate America is more hesitant and more conservative of how they market their products than it used to be. And the sports really got to start concentrating of how somehow they limit the amount of funding that car owners spend on to go fast. That some. Somehow another. That. That's got to be the answer. I, I just, I don't see any other way to stop it just continually increasing. And it, it just makes it. It just makes it really tough because, I mean, Kenny, we're at the point. I don't mean to get off subject, but.

[Kenny Wallace]

No, you're good. This is good stuff.

[Ward Burton]

They're a Harley. There's not a, I don't think a single example, not one single exception from the truck series, Xfinity series. Those, those kids that drive those cars or those young men to drive those cars, they have something to do with the funding coming to call. So when you and I were driving and everybody else, I could remember, every single one of us, the phone rang from a car owner. Will you drive my car?

[Kenny Wallace]

Yes. Because of our talent, we didn't take the damn sponsorship.

[Ward Burton]

So now that's happened because of the amount of the amount that it costs. And it's, it's just the whole business model is done. 100. It's not a 180. It's a 360. So yeah, I really, I really hope that NASCAR cares enough that they, they will continue working on this. And as an example, you and I both know everybody ran Hopkins or Laughlin, Chaskys, even Roger Penske would run the same chassis that, I don't know, you could. A Bill Davis racing did. Yeah, the same part came off the shelf. Now they had. Rusty had more resources than we did, but, but you know, the same pieces. So I love that they got the same pieces. Now they just need to limit, they just need to limit how much engineering support and all these things you could do because the racing product is no better than when you and I were doing.

[Kenny Wallace]

And I will, and I will end this conversation like this. My old car owner, Felix Sabata said it. He said it to me 30 years ago and it still rings true to this day. He. He couldn't say Kenny, he called me Kenna still, because he from Cuba. He said, Kenna, what I'm worried about is he says we are going to out price ourselves and the biggest sponsors in America will not have enough money to sponsor our cars. And Ward, he was a hundred percent accurate. And that's why Felix is a very successful, wealthy businessman, because he could see it, you know, he could see that. You know, I mean, you look at the biggest beer companies and now we're just kind of talking about it because you, you got me going too. You know, you got Miller Brewing, you got Anheuser Busch, Budweiser. They don't have enough money. They're not gonna spend $20 million a year. You know, I think the guy that's got the longest sponsor right now, and he just got it and it was a big win for the sport. Denny Hamlin just got progressive insurance for 18 races. That's. That's going to be one of the longest. And now it's taken. Yeah, now it's taken six and eight sponsors, so. You're right, my friend. All right.

[Ward Burton]

Hey, on that subject, yeah. I saw something the other day. The sport. I really. I really think the sports got really good, positive things happening right now.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, we're doing our best right now.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah, I mean, they just. They do need. They do need to consider how. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm smart enough, I have all the answers, but it needs to be dealt with. But having Michael Jordan in the sport, I mean, here's an international legend. That's cool. And I mean, Denny Hamlin had a lot to do with that. That's really cool to see a guy that all of us look up to to in a completely different sport. That's in the sport. That's. That's really nice.

[Kenny Wallace]

I. I like that. Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player in the world ever. And that's not. That's not for argument, everybody. I like it that now he's becoming more comfortable. He's doing interviews, Ward, you know, a year ago, he wouldn't, but now, you know, Jamie Little got some great interviews. He and I liked it that Michael Jordan talked to Ryan Blaney after the race.

[Ward Burton]

That's what I'm talking about. I saw it somewhere, and I think that it was. And, you know, he's smart, man. I mean, the things he said were dead, dead on. If he just does that little bit every now and then, can't hurt anything.

[Kenny Wallace]

It's going to make ESPN and all the other sports. It's going. Michael Jordan at the NASCAR race, and they, you know, throwback weekend. Michael Jordan's like, listen, I love Richard Petty. That's what got me into the Sport. The number 43. Yeah, it was awesome. Well, you know what? Let's. Let's end like this. And I asked this to every one of our NASCAR racers at the very end, or let's stay right here. What do you think of NASCAR today?

[Ward Burton]

The business model, like what you and I just talked about has really changed. The sport still works like it always works for companies. I mean, Jeff has proven it time and time again with his companies from Golden Garral, Sprayway State, Water Heaters, AJ Transport. I can keep naming them. Rocky Boots, Beretta, Burris. I can keep naming them. It works. It works. The sanctioning body needs to consider how to keep the cost down. It Works. That's where we're missing the boat right now in the sanctioning body. I'm not sure. They probably need to get some outside advice and start working in that direction. Other than that, I feel like it's there. I'd like to see the purse and more resources be able to go to the team owner. More funding. And a lot of these things are because the TV package has brought more funding in for the sanctioning body. I think it should be shared more.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah. Well, listen, I want to end by saying this. I love your son Jeb. He's always been nice to me ever since he was a little kid. And I see the love that you give him. And in my opinion, this is Jeb's year. This is the most competitive. He's running up front. I, you know, I see. Makes me smile. Years, years ago, years ago, you and I and our wives were in the infield at Pocono. And I tell this story once a year. I have my. I have a vanilla ice cream cone. If you remember, at Pocono, we could go get vanilla ice cream cones right in the middle of the racetrack. That and the races were all over and we were coming out of our motorhomes. I had my vanilla ice cream cone just kind of down and I was talking to you and I felt my hand wiggle and it was Jeb. Jeb reached in there and just took over my. He took a bite of ice cream cone that to this day, he's a full blown man now. But that was one of my greatest memories. I still will never. He wanted my damn ice cream.

[Ward Burton]

Him and there's a whole bunch of kids. I mean, they. They harassed the driver's motorhome lot.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yeah, we. We loved it. It was great memories.

[Ward Burton]

It was a lot going on. Well, I mean, I'm very fortunate. All of my kids are working and got a good, good work ethic and they're honest. And that's all you want for your kids, is to. To work hard and keep going after it.

[Kenny Wallace]

Your daughter is Sarah, right? Is that right? Yeah.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah. Sarah got. They live in Richmond.

[Kenny Wallace]

Yep. Sarah Burton Graper. She's on X. I told her I was gonna talk to you yesterday. I said we. I said we'd like to talk to War Burton. She popped right up. So I want to acknowledge both of your children.

[Ward Burton]

Well, I got. So Ashton, I don't. You haven't met Ashton.

[Kenny Wallace]

I don't think I have.

[Ward Burton]

No. Action's just getting ready. He's just. He's out of college. He just accepted a. A job serving his country. So really proud of Ashton. Ashton's 22.

[Kenny Wallace]

I'll be darn.

[Ward Burton]

Yeah. So. Yeah.

[Kenny Wallace]

Well, Jeb, Sarah, and Ashton, you have a wonderful family. Want to thank Tabitha for trying to close the door and we called her, but. All right, everybody, There he is. Remember, if you want to see Ward Burton's face, watch kenny conversation on YouTube. And if you want to listen to him because you're going down the road, Kenny Conversation is on Dirty Mo Media in podcast form. So two ways you can look or listen to Ward Burton. Ward, thank you so much. And I'll probably see at one of these cup races soon. Thank you so much.

[Ward Burton]

All right, man, that hour went by awful quick. Good talking, good catching up with you, Kenny. And stay well, man. Tell your family, say hey.

[Kenny Wallace]

I will. Goodbye, everybody.

[Ward Burton]

All right.

[Kenny Wallace]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Kenny Wallace]

Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so as a black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens, you will be okay. When we learn the power of hope, recovery is possible, find out [e-mail] brought.

[Ward Burton]

To you by the National Council for.

[Kenny Wallace]

Mental well Being, Shatterproof and the AD Council.