HerMoney with Jean Chatzky – Episode 458: Healthy Relationships With Money: A Psychologist Tells All
Release Date: January 15, 2025
Introduction: The Need for Financial Stability in 2025
Jean Chatzky opens the episode by highlighting the financial challenges many Americans face. Citing a Wells Fargo study, she notes that 42% of Americans struggle to live within their means, and 25% find themselves in poor financial shape. This sets the stage for a discussion on building financial stability and cultivating a healthier relationship with money.
"Sometimes money is not just math. Often, money is not just math."
—Jean Chatzky [00:00]
Guest Introduction: Matt Lundquist, Founder of Tribeca Therapy
Jean introduces her guest, Matt Lundquist, a Columbia University-trained psychotherapist and founder of Tribeca Therapy in New York City. Matt specializes in financial therapy, addressing the emotional and psychological aspects of money management.
"Matt Lundquist is a Columbia University trained psychotherapist. He is the founder of Tribeca Therapy in New York City."
—Jean Chatzky [02:50]
Journey into Financial Therapy
Matt Lundquist shares his path to becoming a financial therapist. He explains that money is a taboo subject, akin to sex and death, making it a challenging area for both clients and therapists. His personal exploration into his own relationship with money and the lack of existing therapists in this niche led him to specialize in financial therapy.
"What people don't come to me with is financial planning and financial advice... but when they have something stuck in them."
—Matt Lundquist [03:38]
Understanding the Psychological Barriers to Financial Health
Jean and Matt delve into why individuals often fail to act on sound financial advice despite knowing what they should do. Matt emphasizes that the issue often goes beyond willpower, pointing to deeper emotional and psychological barriers.
"I just need to try harder. I just need to try harder. And if that works, that's great. But I'm assuming if that's worked for them, that probably they're not in my office."
—Matt Lundquist [07:00]
Key Complicating Factors:
- Early Financial Conditioning:
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Experiences of scarcity or financial instability in childhood can profoundly affect adult financial behavior.
"Money can be symbolic... the experience of perhaps downward mobility."
—Matt Lundquist [08:19]
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- Emotional Attachments:
- Guilt, shame, and the desire to keep up with peers can lead to unhealthy spending habits.
- Relational Dynamics:
- Financial disagreements are a leading cause of relationship stress and divorce.
Signs of an Unhealthy Relationship with Money
Recognizing an unhealthy relationship with money is crucial. Matt outlines several signs that indicate financial struggles may be rooted in deeper psychological issues:
- Frequent surprise at credit card statements.
- Discrepancies between perceived and actual finances.
- Denial about financial realities.
"When actual concrete data shows up in the form of, you know, a credit card statement... it's better than the slow grinding away of constant denial."
—Matt Lundquist [12:59]
Preventative Measures: Building Financial Health Early
Jean inquires about proactive steps to prevent financial issues, especially during the simpler financial periods of one’s 20s and 30s.
"Look at establishing some goals and habits and norms that will then persist when things get more complicated."
—Matt Lundquist [11:02]
Recommended Steps:
- Establish Good Financial Habits Early:
- Budgeting, tracking expenses, and setting financial goals.
- Face Financial Issues Head-On:
- Avoiding denial and addressing financial problems promptly.
- Build Accountability:
- Regularly reviewing finances, possibly with a partner or friend.
Tackling Overspending: Understanding and Control
Jean and Matt explore the underlying reasons for overspending, especially during the holiday season. Matt explains that spending often serves as an emotional crutch to address deeper issues or to navigate relational dynamics.
"Buying nice things is a fine thing to do, but it's a little bit like a great medication... being used to treat the wrong illness."
—Matt Lundquist [20:18]
Common Triggers:
- Emotional Spending: Using purchases to alleviate stress, loneliness, or other negative emotions.
- Relational Pressures: Overspending to avoid conflicts or to express generosity beyond one’s means.
Money in Relationships: Navigating Financial Compatibility
Managing money within relationships introduces additional complexities. Matt advises that couples should proactively discuss financial values and habits to prevent conflicts.
"Early on... carve out intentional space to talk about money."
—Matt Lundquist [26:17]
Strategies for Couples:
- Intentional Communication:
- Regular discussions about financial goals, spending habits, and budgeting.
- Use Minor Disagreements as Learning Opportunities:
- Address small financial issues thoroughly to prevent them from escalating.
- Build a Shared Financial Infrastructure:
- Establish joint financial goals and systems that both partners agree upon.
Identifying the Need for Financial Therapy and Seeking Help
Towards the end of the main discussion, Jean asks how individuals can recognize if they need financial therapy and how to find a suitable therapist.
"You need it when you've done the work to seek out good advice and... there's something more complicated going on."
—Matt Lundquist [30:04]
Indicators for Seeking Financial Therapy:
- Inability to follow through with financial advice despite understanding it.
- High levels of anxiety around financial matters.
- Persistent negative emotions related to money.
Finding a Financial Therapist:
- Research Specialized Therapists:
- Look for therapists who have experience and credentials in financial therapy.
- Utilize Online Resources:
- Use the internet to find therapists who speak fluently about money issues.
- Ask Specific Questions:
- Inquire about a therapist’s experience with financial issues before committing.
Conclusion: Taking Control of Your Financial Health
Jean wraps up the conversation by emphasizing the importance of understanding and addressing the emotional aspects of money management. With the right tools and support, individuals can build a healthier, more resilient relationship with their finances.
"This was totally great. Really helpful."
—Matt Lundquist [32:46]
Key Takeaways
- Money is Deeply Emotional: Understanding the psychological factors behind financial behaviors is crucial for lasting change.
- Early Habits Matter: Building good financial habits in younger years can prevent future complications.
- Communication is Key: Open and intentional discussions about money can strengthen relationships and reduce financial stress.
- Seek Professional Help When Needed: Financial therapy can be a valuable resource for those struggling to align their financial actions with their goals.
For more insights and to cultivate a healthier relationship with your finances, consider exploring HerMoney’s Finance Fix and Investing Fix programs.