← HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Ep 462: A Fourth-Generation Matchmaker On Love and Money
00:46:50
Finding love without breaking the bank.
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- [00:00]
Maria Avgotidis
So one of the things that I like to tell people as they're preparing to date is to actually talk about what financial compatibility is to you and to me. Financial compatibility at the end of the day is what's called lifestyle. And the formula that I like to use to measure your lifestyle is how do you value the way you spend your time plus how do you value the way you spend your money? And that is what equals your lifestyle.
- [00:25]
Jean Chatsky
Have you checked out Investing Fix yet? Investing Fix is our investing club for women. And if you haven't given us a look, see, consider this your official nudge. We are in the thick of earnings season and last session, my co host, Karen Feinerman from cnbc, she broke down exactly why listening to the earnings calls that companies make public is just another tool in your arsenal. She shared a list of the key things that she pays attention to when, when she's listening into these earnings calls, plus when it's okay to wait till the call is over and then listen to it at one and a half speed. You get all the information at half the time. Next session, a few of our Investing Fix members are gonna share what they learn from listening into earnings calls. And that'll affect what we buy and what we sell in our portfolio. It's as interactive and comprehensive as it sounds. And if you want in touch, join us at investingfix.com we spell Fix with two X's. We'll send you all the information that you need so that you can start making informed investing moves right away. Can't wait to see you there. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to agent to choose the coverage you need. Have coverage options to protect the things you value most. File a claim right on the State Farm mobile app and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey everyone, thanks so much for joining us today on hermoney. I am Jean Chatsky and a very happy Valentine's Day to all of you. If you have ever looked for love online, you know exactly how tricky some may say impossible it can be to find your person. Even after you wade through the pictures of creeps with their big fish, you simply can't assess emotional and financial compatibility via a very brief profile. And the frustrations in navigating the online dating minefield are exactly why many people turn to a matchmaker. But while their service is top notch, their price tag often is as well. Some women, we've heard, are willing to spend up to $300,000 to hire them. Ouch. But my guest today, Maria Avgotidis, AKA Matchmaker Maria on socials, says that's a big no.
- [03:27]
Maria Avgotidis
No.
- [03:27]
Jean Chatsky
You don't have to shell out bucks that big. We're gonna get into it. Maria, welcome.
- [03:33]
Maria Avgotidis
Hi, Jean. Thank you so much for having me. And happy Valentine's Day to you too.
- [03:37]
Jean Chatsky
I love Valentine's Day. I. I love it all, from the little tiny candy hearts to. To the flowers and the dinners and the romance. I'm a sucker. You are not a sucker. You are a fourth generation matchmaker and the CEO of Agape Match, which I learned in talking to you is Greek for love. So you've seen it all. Why are you against women spending money on a match?
- [04:07]
Maria Avgotidis
I don't know if I'm necessarily against someone spending money on a match. Certainly there are plenty of people who get a lot of benefit in having someone literally turn every stone to find that person for them. I just think that before you hire a professional, before you outsource this really intimate part of your life, there has to be a lot more conversation about is this right for you? And also, do you have the right mindset in going into it?
- [04:36]
Jean Chatsky
There are many women who date and date and date and are just not having a lot of luck finding their match. Why are they stuck?
- [04:53]
Maria Avgotidis
It's hard to answer this in a really sweeping generalization because I don't know how many of these women who date and date and date where they're meeting the people that they're dating and dating and dating.
- [05:04]
Jean Chatsky
Let's say they're meeting them online.
- [05:06]
Maria Avgotidis
Yeah. And that is a predominant majority right now. Right. We are at a time where, especially millennial and Gen X women, they are predominantly searching for people online. And I think one of the things that's really hard about online dating is at the time that we're using online dating, if we look at it from, like a macro perspective, but also how they're built. Right. So when we look at a lot of online dating apps, it didn't used to be like this, but there's unlimited matches. So we as humans, using an unlimited match tool makes us more picky. We're not considering, you know, okay, I have maybe you might have certain things on your list. The list. But there's also things that person has on their list. And now both of you are searching on a tool that if we use the tool like a tool and we went into it with a different mindset, if we actually filled out our profile correctly, if the people that were searching filled out their profile correctly, if we actually read the profiles, like, so many things have to be done correctly for that tool to work for you to actually go out. And so I think one of the things that people are experiencing a lot in 2025 is extreme online dating fatigue. And so the thing that I always tell people is, well, tell me about how many hours you're using right now to swipe and how many hours does it take before you actually go on a physical date with someone? Can we reinvest that time that you are using online? Maybe we could take a break. We don't have to fully break up. We could be like Ross and Rachel. We're on a break, but we can take a break and utilize that time in a different way where we get to live our lives. We have such so many women I meet. They're so incredible. They have such incredible lives. I'm not saying you to pick up a hobby to meet someone new, but I am saying that what's your bucket list look like?
- [06:59]
Jean Chatsky
Essentially you're talking about articulating what you're looking for, right? Figuring out what you want. I mean, I can't control what an ocean full of matches is putting on their profiles. I can only control what I'm putting on my profile. But I think knowing and being able to articulate what you actually are looking for is a very important step one.
- [07:27]
Maria Avgotidis
I don't think if you're going to utilize online dating apps, the best way is not to necessarily put what you're looking for. No one likes to read a list on an online dating app. And the real estate for prompts is so small. So I always tell people, like, it's time for you to describe who you are, what your values are. One of my favorite prompts is like a typical Sunday and start listing out what does a good Sunday look like for you? Or another favorite prompt that I have is I go crazy for. And like, you can talk about what you actually go crazy for. Are you the kind of person who likes to go crazy for credit card points and you like to help people find the best deal? I think this what this does when you answer it in a value way, in a lifestyle way, even in a socioeconomic, if you answer the questions that are about you and not about who you're looking for, it's my hope that the people will self select themselves into what you're looking for. Because at the end of the day, what's going to make a good match is not just the shared core values, which you cannot learn until you actually go on a physical date. I mean, I could argue even a phone date. But it's also the shared lifestyle, which can revolve around socioeconomic status.
- [08:33]
Jean Chatsky
When you talk about compatibility, you talk about five dimensions, five pillars of compatibility. And you rank them from most important to least important. You know, you mentioned the guy who still has all his hair. I have a friend who sadly is a young widow and he says that he is just catnip because he has all his hair and he can drive at night. So that's physical. It's a little bit. I guess it's mostly physical character traits. Exactly. He does have very nice hair. But that is besides the point. But you said you say physical is the least important, followed by the spiritual, intellectual, financial and emotional. Can we talk about why they line up that way?
- [09:22]
Maria Avgotidis
So in my book Ask a Matchmaker, I actually talk about the five pillars of compatibility. And it's interesting because we receive them in the opposite order. So the thing that is not really going to matter in long term compatibility, which is physical, you discover that first, right? No woman has ever gone to a bar or even a friend's wedding and saw a man across the room and said, I bet you that guy has a great personality. No. And we all think he's cute. He's not cute. Or another thing about physical compatibility, which I think is important, and it is the no go question that all women ask themselves whenever they meet anybody is the C factor, the creep factor. I feel like we've all been there where someone could be fantastic on paper and then you meet them and you're like, oh, you're a creep. And it's so quick, it's gut level instinct. And you just stop talking to them. Right? You don't, you don't engage. You see this, even if you're on the subway, even if you're at a restaurant, there is this sort of like innate way of how we judge people. And of course men do the same. They don't have the C factor instilled in them. And that's a different conversation for a different day. But for sure, men have a physical criteria that is probably a lot more weighted against men and women regardless of sexuality, but it's certainly a lot more weighted than women give it credit. So like, you know, it's been my experience in working with men for over 15 years that they will judge attraction within the first minute. And that's it. It doesn't matter how great the date is. If they're not attracted to you, there's just never gonna be a second date. I've never seen it happen. Whereas with women, a woman will meet a man, he doesn't have the C factor, so he's not a creep. So, okay, we've passed that. And then if she maybe let's just pretend. Let' do scales for a second. Let's say he's a 5 out of 10. But he asks her questions, he's an active listener, he makes her laugh, he takes a little bit of charge and orders her a drink at the bar. Suddenly that 5 is an 11. And so women definitely take more time to discover who they're attracted to than men. At least that's been my experience as a professional matchmaker. But I also see this in all of the people that I talk to every single day. But then that just takes a backseat, you know, after three weeks, physical attractions. And I'm not talking about sex now. I'm just talking about the physical attractiveness. It just goes out the window. And now the things that are way more important and the two most important are emotional compatibility and financial compatibility. That's at the top. And that's what's going to determine how safe you are in a relationship. That's going to determine how rich you are in a relationship. And that could be figuratively or literally. And it also means how much mental wellness you're going to have in that relationship. So these two things are just so important, but it takes time to discover them. You don't learn about these things within the first two, three dates. For some people, it's not even the first two, three months.
- [12:13]
Jean Chatsky
First of all, as a. As the host of a podcast about money and the recipient of so many questions where our listeners outline the problems that they've had regarding money in their relationships. I'm thrilled to see finances rank so highly on your list because, you know, I've always known this is a problem area. There are studies that show that the number one thing couples fight about is money. There are other studies that show the more often we fight about money, the more likely we are to divorce. How do you assess financial compatibility in an environment where we are often raised not to talk about money?
- [13:00]
Maria Avgotidis
I think we should talk about money. We should talk about money all the time. I just don't think people realize what is a money talk. So one of the things that I like to tell People, as they're preparing to date, is to actually talk about what financial compatibility is to you and to me. Financial compatibility at the end of the day is what's called lifestyle. And the formula that I like to use to measure your lifestyle is how do you value the way you spend your time, plus how do you value the way you spend your money? And that is what equals your lifestyle. So if we're going to talk about your lifestyle now, and how are we going to have those money conversations as quick as possible? It's about asking yourself questions that you should not be reacting to, questions that you understand the answer to and can actually have in depth conversations about. So some of the questions I would ask you, for instance, is, do you plan to have children if you've already had children, do you intend to pay for their bachelor's degree? Should they go to college? Do you envision yourself buying a home or renting a home in the next 10 years? If you won the lottery that your boss gave you the scratch off ticket to, I like to always add that little extra thing. What are you going to do with the money? Let's say it's a million dollars and you be surprised, like, if you come up with the answers to these, or if I ask you, even, like I want you to write down if you won the lottery and you had, the only way you could spend this money is to buy your dream home. Where is that dream home? Give it to me, Visualize it for me, right? If you have an elder parent who might need care one day, who is taking care of it, who is taking care of them, who's taking care of the bills, These are questions that need answers and they're not reaction answers. So this way, if I know the answer to, for instance, what I would do if I won the lottery, or what does my dream home look like, or what does my fantasy life look like, right? That means that when I'm on a first date and we're passing by that brownstone that's on my, like, little vision board, I can say, if I won the lottery, this is the exact brownstone I would buy. So I'm already adding now a little green flag about, like, we're having some money conversations, even though we're in fantasy land. But then I can also say, you know, in that conversation, on a first or second or third date, I can say, you know, my parents are getting older and I've thought about it. I think, you know, I've talked to my sister about it and I feel like with things get A little bit more sticky. They'll probably come and live with me. Of course, I'd have to talk to my partner and we would discuss how this would impact us. But I just feel more comfortable caring for my parents than sending them off to an elder care facility. What do you think about that, that conversation? Elder care is a money conversation.
- [15:33]
Jean Chatsky
Sure it is.
- [15:34]
Maria Avgotidis
Right. But now I'm having a discussion. I'm allowing myself to quickly have these money conversations without asking how much money do you make?
- [15:44]
Jean Chatsky
Going back to the second question that you mentioned, you have a child, you have thought about whether you are going to pay for their bachelor's degree or allow some borrowing into the equation or if borrowing is going to be necessary, how do you raise that one? And what are you looking for in a response? I mean, that could vary quickly. I think on a first or second date go down the tubes in terms of disagreement.
- [16:14]
Maria Avgotidis
So here's what I think about that specific question. I want everyone to have an answer to this question, but also be willing to change their mind. And what I mean by that is, even when I asked myself this question, when I was a single woman, I knew because my parents helped me with my bachelor's degree education, I, I mean, I had a scholarship, but I needed room and board and my parents paid for that. Right. I knew what kind, I knew what sacrifices my parents had to do. But I also, I knew that I could do the things that I wanted to do by having that. And that's okay if other people disagree with what my parents did. But I know that when I have children, at the time, when I was a single man, that I would want to offer them the same, that I would work as hard as I can to be able to let them be a student without having to worry about xyz, they can get a part time job. I certainly had a part time job when I was in my bachelor's degree, but I was able to focus on being a student. So because I already have a answer to that question, I remember that when I would date and this question would come up and I would make sure that these questions would come up as a single woman. Because I do know that a lot of divorces circle around money. I want to make sure that they have the same value set as me. Because at the end of the day, money is about values. Money is about how we look at money. In that I remember there were men who I would meet who would say, oh my God, my parents, they didn't help me. And when I was 18 and in high school, I was actually paying them rent, and my kids are going to do the same. You and I do not have the same background right now to make this work. And I'm going to throw you another. Another reason why this matters, right? Before online dating, people met through their own community. People met either at church or synagogue or temple barbecues. People met at friends, weddings. There were so many accountability partners built in. But another thing is that when you met through your own community, you were already 50% of the way there with people that shared in your value system that you were likely raised with when you were online dating. That foundation just doesn't exist, right? You're meeting complete strangers. So you actually have to have these conversations that your parents likely never got to do. And maybe that's a good thing, right? Maybe it's a good thing that you're having these conversations up front because you really just want to ultimately see, do we share the same worldview? Do we share the same morality? Do we have similar empathy compasses? And this is what, this is essentially what money revolves around, right? Is how do we look at money as the tool for us to get the life that we want?
- [18:48]
Jean Chatsky
What I like about these scenarios is that, and I say this a lot, that the initial money conversations are not really about money, right? They're about your hopes and your dreams and your goals and your responsibilities. And you can attach numbers to those conversations down the road. What I'm wondering, and I'm thinking of a couple of young women that I know who are in their 30s, would like to have partners, don't have partners, are trying to find people, is I think they would look at me with these questions and think, I am not going there. I am going to scare these people off, and I'm not going to get to the second or third or fourth date. And I wonder where the line is. How do you know that you're in a space where you can broach these conversations? Or the one about whether or not you want to have kids, or the one about whether or not you should merge money, right? How do you get there?
- [19:53]
Maria Avgotidis
I actually encourage everyone, if they can, to not ask so much questions on the first and second date. The purpose of first dates, to go on a second date. But the purpose of the first two dates is to just talk about you, showcase who you are as an individual at this moment in time, at this present time. What brought you here on this date today? The purpose of date three and four, should you go on one, is how do we date together? How does this work? So I think there's all this pressure being put on what a first date is. And you know, first date's just the meetup. Right. Are we vibing, are we checking ourselves out? Are they being polite and self aware to the people around them? Right. That's all a first aid is. So I don't know if necessarily first it needs to be like so money driven. You know, one of the things that you just mentioned is about what about people who want to merge their incomes? Studies have shown that couples who merge their incomes are less, have a lesser degree to divorce. Now listen, I'm not talking about people who are being financially abused. I'm certainly not going to talk about people who don't have access to their money and therefore cannot afford divorce. Divorce is very expensive. But one of the reasons why people who might have a shared checking account might also benefit in being a good marriage is one, they had to trust that person enough to share a checking account. But two, if you are sharing a checking account and you are exhibiting healthy relationship traits, chances are that you are having money conversations every single month or every single quarter about where we are on our budget, how are we spending our money and the couples that are having those sort of conversations on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis. Because money is such a intimate and hard conversation to have with anybody, even with your siblings, your friends, your parents. Right. It's really personal.
- [21:45]
Jean Chatsky
Yeah.
- [21:46]
Maria Avgotidis
Okay. Because you have that social and emotional muscle from talking about something so hard. When other relationship problems come around that have nothing to do with money, you can still use those social and emotional resources that you've built up your positive bidding in a sense to tackle those problems as well.
- [22:07]
Jean Chatsky
We had the researcher who conducted that study about shared checking accounts on the show. We'll link to it in the show notes in case anybody missed it. Maria, we're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we started this show with your feeling that people should not have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars necessarily to find a match. I want to talk about the most cost effective ways to actually open the dating pool up if you are looking for your forever person. We'll be right back.
- [22:39]
Maria Avgotidis
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- [22:41]
Jean Chatsky
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Maria Avgotidis
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Maria Avgotidis
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Jean Chatsky
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- [23:01]
Maria Avgotidis
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- [23:05]
Jean Chatsky
How doers get more done. We are back with fourth generation matchmaker Maria Avgotidis. She is author of Ask a Matchmaker. So it is Valentine's Day. We know there are lots of amazing women who are celebrating with our Galentines, which we applaud. If you are looking to date, people tend to these days go the online route. They say to friends, please fix me up. And eventually many of them will try some sort of a matchmaker or a matchmaking service. Can you tell us how these things are supposed to work? How much they should cost? What are the expenses that you think are worth paying for? And look, if we're going to go down this road, we want to go down it knowing that we're being smart consumers of the services that we're buying.
- [24:06]
Maria Avgotidis
Oh, I'm going to give you a really controversial answer. The matchmakers that I think are actually worth it as it pertains to straight women hiring to find a man, they typically cost $50,000 to $75,000, which is a lot of money. And I don't think it's for everyone. And when I say it's not for everyone, it's specifically not for people who have never been in a relationship. So it's like, okay, now I'm going to throw money at this. Right? It's like, no, no. If the matchmaker's job is just to find people that are enthusiastic to meet you. If you don't know how to take those other steps of being authentically yourself and getting yourself into a relationship, that might not be the best route. But I also feel like if you're going to spend 50,000, let's exhaust other things that are a little bit more cost effective. That would certainly expand your social network to be more conducive of you meeting someone who's already circle adjacent to you. Because I, you know, I really believe that. I fundamentally believe that a great match for you, you probably already know them through a friend. And sometimes the friends that you have, we got to replace them with new friends, I'm thinking.
- [25:18]
Jean Chatsky
So I have one friend now who's dating a man that she met through a matchmaker. She paid, if not $50,000, $40,000.
- [25:27]
Maria Avgotidis
Yeah.
- [25:27]
Jean Chatsky
But she had been dating. She just needed a slightly wider circle to meet the right people. And she's thrilled. I have another woman in my circle, a young woman who's online dating, hired a much less costly service to help her just do the online dating thing better to say the things in her responses that are better to swipe on people that she wouldn't think about. And that has been successful too. So I'd like to sort of understand for people who want to match, for people who want their children to match, what are the. What order do you take these steps?
- [26:14]
Maria Avgotidis
So if I were someone who's like, you know, Maria, I've got $10,000, what do I do? If you have $10,000, you're not hiring a matchmaker. I just don't think that's the right route. But I do say that there are a lot of other resources. So there is. First off, everyone needs to go book some online dating photography. You can certainly Google online dating photographer. There are plenty of them out there. A lot of photographers, they know exactly what this is. It's not new. And go on that photo shoot. And if you don't want to spend, it's usually between 3 to $500. If you don't want to spend that money, grab a friend and three outfits and be a tourist in your city for a day. You're going to treat them to brunch and then you're going to take photos outside museums, down the street, at the park, by the pier. Like, we want backgrounds, we're going to change our outfits at every Starbucks. But that's what you're getting, right? But that's actually really important if you're online dating. The second thing is you're going to look at your this is now free. You're going to look at your prompts and actually fill them out where it talks about you and not necessarily what you're looking for. Number three, you're going to open up the Eventbrite app or the Meetup app and you're going to pick four things to do in the next six weeks. I want one of those four things though, to become a weekly class. So this is the time where you think about, you know, I've always wanted to learn how to do wine tasting or I've always wanted to learn how to be a creative writer or I've always wanted to do golf lessons. I want you to do three events. Maybe it's a lecture. Maybe an author is giving a chapter reading. Maybe there is a foraging hike that's so popular in LA before the fires. I hope it comes back. But there are certain things that are happening on Eventbrite to meet up that meet up once. But then I want one of those things to be something that meets up weekly. I'll tell you that my husband, he belongs to a backgammon club and right now Backgammon NYC is, is the fastest growing group, because people just want to meet other people while playing a really old game like backgammon. And what this is doing, though, is it's forcing you to go out and actually make authentic connections. We don't want to be online. We want to be offline. So we can let the online dating app work on itself, but we also have to develop our offline tentacles. Now. The last thing I would do, and this is something that I promote, is I really want you to do something that's group based, that makes you have adventure. And what adventure will do is that it's going to create bonds between you and the group where you can now have new friendships to look upon. And then also another challenge that I give people. And I know this is going to sound so silly, but you'd be surprised how many people don't do it. But it's really a game changer. I want you to say hello to five people in the next five days.
- [28:52]
Jean Chatsky
Just say hello.
- [28:53]
Maria Avgotidis
Just say hello. Hello. That's it. Hello. That's it. It's shocking how many people. I would venture to guess about 80% of people do not talk to people on a day to day basis. A lot of people are working from home. This is only contributing not only to the loneliness epidemic that is being felt by a lot of people in the States right now, but it's also, we don't have a lot of third spaces anymore. Right. The malls are dead. People are meeting online. A lot of people working from home. You need to go out of your way and say hello to five people. Even if it's women, I don't care. But it creates this sort of. It does build on your courage. If you think to yourself, I have to say hi to five people every single week.
- [29:35]
Jean Chatsky
I love it. I love it. I want to ask you one more question, Maria, specifically about the money. In your new book, which is called Ask a Matchmaker, Maria's no Nonsense Guide to Finding Love, you talk about dating a shipping heir and realizing that you were not financially compatible because even though he'd been spending like crazy on you since day one, dating him felt more like a vacation than real life. Your words. So what did that feel like to you? And how when we're looking for that financial compatibility, how do you know if it's right or if your partner's quirks are something that you are not going to be able to live with for the next 50 years?
- [30:20]
Maria Avgotidis
So I dated. I didn't know this. He told me like six weeks in, but he told me he was a yacht broker. And I was like, okay, that's acceptable. But he was a proper shipping heir. And the thing about shipping errors, I've even had them as clients, they're ungoogleable, right? So it's a very different world to be involved in. But anyway, I was dating the shipping heir and it was a vacation, right? Everything was being paid for. But the thing is, in entering that relationship with him, I already knew what kind of life I envisioned for myself should I have children. And for me, that life revolved around my church. I'm Greek American. I was raised in a Greek American community in central Jersey. I went to Greek school. After school I did Greek folk dancing twice a week. I did Sunday school. And that community, you know, this is my family that it's chosen because the rest of my blood family lives in Greece. It was so important for me to have this for my children. Like, it just made sense to me. And so in dating him, one of the big cracks was when I would share what I loved about my childhood, what I felt I was so honored to participate in. And I know it sounds just like my big fat Greek wedding, but I feel like it's relatable to anyone who belongs to a niche subculture in the US or Canada or even any anywhere in the diaspora. It was something that was just very special to me. And what did he have? He went to boarding school. And I'm not trying to take away from the very enriched experience that someone can have in boarding school that's its own community. But it was, it was like I'm talking to someone from a different planet. And so to him, it was fun talking to me because like I say in the book, he was almost like a cultural anthropologist learning about middle class life. For me, I didn't know what questions to ask him because I don't have the right words to ask him those questions. So the cracks started to show up and I was willing to like, kind of be blinded by them because I enjoyed the vacation, you know, it did affect though, my ambition very quickly. You know, I remember I'd have to stay after work to like, you know, I'd stay late in the office. I have to work on something. This is my business. I have employees, I gotta hustle. Let's go and say, oh, come on, let's just. And you can, you know, let's go to the premiere of this and you can just deal with it tomorrow. And it's like, sure. Until finally, you know, it's like, okay, now I have a mountain of work. I really have to get it done. And so it was hard because we did not share in the same lifestyle. And again, what is lifestyle? It's the way you value your money and the way you value your time. And for. We might have had maybe the same values in money, but our. The way we valued our time was just so substantially different. And I don't think we could have had kids together without having some pretty crazy money fights.
- [33:10]
Jean Chatsky
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Such an interesting story and so much to pull from it to help our listeners on this Valentine's Day. Maria, thank you so much for a great conversation. I know you're gonna come back on Friday, answer some questions for our listeners. But if there are women listening who wanna get into your dating pool or who are looking for additional matchmaking or dating advice, where can they find you?
- [33:37]
Maria Avgotidis
So the first thing you could do is, of course, follow me on Instagram atchmakermaria, but you can also visit matchmakermaria.com it's got all the stuff there. You can join my database. You can go on a trip with me to Greece this summer. I'd love to have you. You can join a group intensive. We have a new cohort every month. And of course, you can pre order my book on the website as well.
- [33:59]
Jean Chatsky
Thank you so much. And we'll be right back.
- [34:03]
Maria Avgotidis
You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook.
- [34:08]
Jean Chatsky
Meat.
- [34:09]
Maria Avgotidis
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- [34:34]
Jean Chatsky
We are back for our mailbag. Katherine Tuggle is joining me today. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Galentine's Day. Whatever you choose to celebrate.
- [34:45]
C
Yes, I'm a big Galentine's person. I have to say I think Valentine's Day has been marketed to couples for far too long. I'm glad that we're reclaiming some girl power and some female love.
- [34:57]
Jean Chatsky
And what are you doing for Galentine's Day?
- [35:00]
C
Celebrating with one of my good friends, actually. Rebecca Jones. She writes for her money occasionally. So we're gonna grab some lunch. We'll be ladies who lunch.
- [35:09]
Jean Chatsky
Sounds amazing. I will be celebrating with my no book book group, which by the way, for anybody who doesn't have one is just the best invention, a notebook book group. Allows you to not feel guilty when you didn't read the book, show up and enjoy the company of the fabulous other people, in my case, other women that I'm with, which I love, because I almost never got through the book and then would make an excuse not to show up because I hadn't read the book. And my book group surprise evaporated very quickly. But my notebook group is going quite strong.
- [35:50]
C
I love that. I think everybody needs that.
- [35:53]
Jean Chatsky
Yeah.
- [35:53]
C
You know, and I love the name because you don't need the book as an excuse. But it's nice to have anyway, right?
- [35:58]
Jean Chatsky
Notebook group. Somebody said I don't want to cook anything, so we don't cook. Somebody said, I don't want to read anything. So we don't read. We just hang out. Which is perfect. Anyway, we've got questions.
- [36:09]
C
We do. Our first question comes to us from an anonymous listener who is asking about advice she should give her soon to be married daughter. She writes, hi Jeanne and Catherine. I'm not sure what advice to give my daughter. She has family money in her name that needs to be preserved and I'm looking into a prenup. I'm also not sure how to advise her to set up her financials with her husband to be so many people say women should keep their own bank account these days. My daughter just graduated from law school and has a great job. She's finally able to buy herself the things she wants and she's nervous to give up her independence. I'm divorced and money was a big issue. I don't want her to make the same mistakes.
- [36:46]
Jean Chatsky
First of all, I love that you are talking about these things with your daughter proactively. Everybody should be considering how to manage money when entering a new relationship. Please don't just look into a prenup, please actually get one. She needs it. If she's got family money that needs to be preserved, it should be a non issue really to have it drawn up, get it signed long before the wedding, put it in a drawer and know that it's taken care of. But that's not the crux of your question, which I know. If she is nervous about giving up her independence, by the way, she should be nervous about it. She shouldn't give it up. I don't believe there is a need for any woman to give up financial independence these days. That includes women who are not the breadwinners and it includes couples that decide to merge money. No matter how you set up your finances, each person needs to have the autonomy to do some things and Buy some things for themselves. Just because you get married does not mean that you have the same exact goals, hopes, dreams, wishes, wants as your partner and your individuality and the money it costs to preserve it deserves to be respected. I'm a fan, as I think everybody knows of yours, mine and ours accounts. That's how my husband and I manage our money. We each contribute a certain amount to our joint account every single month. It is dependent on the amount of money that we earn. I make more, so I contribute more to the house account. Whatever's left is ours to do with as we like. We also have joint savings goals. This year we are taken a safari. So we've upped the amount that we are kicking in to savings to be enough to cover that in advance. You can do this if you decide that you're going to merge money. The trick is to merge everything and then fund two separate accounts. But I actually think that this is easier. Or there are some couples who don't fund two separate accounts who merge things but have a degree of transparency where people see where the money is going and you just draw a line in the sand. You set a certain amount of money that you're not going to spend, invest, do something with, without discussing it with the other person. I've seen all of these systems work. The real key is transparency. What you don't want to be doing is hiding things from your significant other because that's where the power imbalance begins and that's where the resentments really start. So I think as long as both your daughter and her new spouse are on board with whatever system they decide, they are going to be just fine.
- [40:16]
C
Thanks, Jean. And I know you're a big fan of the prenup, correct?
- [40:19]
Jean Chatsky
I am a big fan of the prenup, particularly in a case like this. Look, it's not necessary in every case. And we actually did a show with a researcher who was anti prenup. And you may want to take a listen to that. We'll put the link in the show notes. And the reason that he was anti prenup is that he felt like it takes the couple's eyes off their joint goals. That really marching and sharing makes couples stronger. And for that reason, he was pro joint accounts as well. I've been divorced like you. I have been divorced and I came into this new marriage with children, with assets, with the expectation of an inheritance someday. All of those things need to be protected. Now your daughter down the road can decide that she wants to take some of that family money and use it for the benefit of them as a couple or them as a family. If she commingles any of those assets, then what should she decides to commingle will no longer be her sole property. It will be marital property, but it should be her choice. And with more people coming into marriages with already established financial lives, sometimes already established family lives simply because we're marrying later, I think in many cases it's a must have.
- [42:00]
C
Love that.
- [42:01]
Maria Avgotidis
Good advice.
- [42:02]
Jean Chatsky
Thank you. Sure.
- [42:03]
C
Our next question comes from Lorraine. She writes, I'm in the process of divorce and I'd like to sell my engagement ring. What is the best strategy to get a reasonable price for the ring?
- [42:14]
Jean Chatsky
The best strategy, Lorraine, is to first get it appraised so that you have some sense of what it's worth. Now, you should know that there's a difference between an appraisal for sale and an insurance appraisal. An insurance appraisal is what it would cost to replace this ring if you lost it. And often insurance appraisals are more than you will get if you try to sell this ring on the secondary market. But you should have one anyway so that you have a general sense of what you've got. And then you want to shop it around. There are websites on the Internet, many of them, that deal these days in the market for secondary jewelry. If it's truly valuable, you can look at the realreal. You can look at first dibs Circa is still in the business of selling jewelry, I believe. And you can also go to consignment shops and shops that deal with estates and get rid of what's left from an estate. But depending on how high end your jewelry is, you want to be careful about where you take it because letting it go in just a plain old estate sale where people are just looking for bargains probably means that you're not going to get as much as it's worth. Finally, I would stop thinking of it as a ring and start thinking of it as gold, if that's what it happens to be and a gemstone and understand that there may be additional value if you are willing to separate the two.
- [44:01]
C
Yes, that's great advice. And I have found that to be true. I have a cousin who comes up to New York to visit me like once every three years. And every time she brings a giant bag of jewelry to sell and we go down to 47th street and she sells it and across the board she gets more. When they basically pry the diamond out and sell the gold at one price and the diamond at another price.
- [44:24]
Jean Chatsky
Yeah. And the spot price for gold has just gone up and up and up and up. I had some jewelry of my mother's that once we went through everything my sister in law and my daughter and nieces and I nobody wanted and so I took it in and got some cash and we split that up too.
- [44:46]
C
Amazing.
- [44:47]
Jean Chatsky
Thank you Jean thank you so much to Maria Avocatidas for being with us and sharing her secrets on dating with us and with the world. If you love this episode, please give us a five star review. On Apple Podcasts, we always value your feedback and if you want to keep the financial conversations going, join me for a deeper dive. HerMoney has two incredible pros Finance Fix, which is designed to give you the ultimate money makeover, and Investing Fix, which is our investing club for women that meets bi weekly on Zoom. With both programs we are leveling the playing fields for women's financial confidence and power. I would love to see you there. Her Money is produced by Hayley Pascalides. Our music is provided by Video Helper and our show comes to you through Megaphone. Thanks for joining us and we'll talk soon.