Podcast Summary: HerMoney with Jean Chatzky - Episode 465: Breaking the Cycle of Empty Ambition
Release Date: March 5, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 465 of HerMoney with Jean Chatzky, host Jean Chatzky delves into the intricate topic of ambition, specifically examining the concept of empty ambition. This episode explores how the relentless pursuit of success can sometimes lead to exhaustion and unfulfillment, particularly among high-achieving women. Jean is joined by Karen Eldad, an executive coach, TEDx speaker, and author of Breaking Free from the Cage of Ambition, Perfectionism, and the Relentless Pursuit of More. Together, they unpack the differences between healthy and unhealthy ambition, the pitfalls of perfectionism, and strategies to cultivate a more fulfilling approach to success.
Defining Empty Ambition vs. Healthy Ambition
Jean opens the conversation by posing a fundamental question: "What is empty ambition? How is it different from healthy ambition?" [02:22]. Karen responds by distinguishing between high standards and perfectionism:
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Healthy Ambition:
- Characteristics: Fulfilling, purpose-driven, inspiring.
- Impact: Encourages waking up eager and motivated each day.
- Quote: "Healthy ambition... has you waking up eager for the day and inspired on a regular basis." [02:30]
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Empty Ambition:
- Characteristics: Punishing, painful, unsustainable, filled with self-sabotage.
- Impact: Creates a constant feeling of inadequacy and being up against a ceiling.
- Quote: "It's filled with self sabotage... direction of self sabotage rather than in the direction of freedom." [02:30]
Why High-Achieving Women Fall into the Cycle of Empty Ambition
Jean probes further into the prevalence of empty ambition among high-achieving women [03:20]. Karen attributes this phenomenon to societal rewards for achievement, leading to an addiction to dopamine hits associated with success. Over time, this creates a life centered around status and validation, making it difficult to let go due to loss aversion.
- Quote: "We were always rewarded for achievement... reluctance to let go of it. The loss aversion kicks in and becomes extraordinarily painful." [03:25]
Karen also references the common experience of a midlife crisis, where individuals recognize the hollowness of their ambitions but fear the cost of confronting it.
Identifying Early Signs of Empty Ambition
Jean raises an essential question about recognizing when ambition becomes harmful [04:45]. Karen offers two primary indicators:
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External Results:
- Assessments: Satisfaction with financial status, career achievements, and personal relationships.
- Quote: "Are your results pleasing to you?... your marriage really feels good to you." [05:20]
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Emotional Indicators:
- Feelings: Restlessness, aimlessness, anxiety, loneliness, frustration, jealousy.
- Quote: "If your dominant emotions are restlessness, aimlessness, anxiety... you are very likely to be on the wrong side of ambition." [05:20]
Notable Questions from Karen’s Assessment [06:40]:
- Do you lie awake worrying about financial security or impending crises?
- Does the success of others trigger feelings of jealousy or inadequacy?
Rational vs. Irrational Fears in Ambition
Jean discusses the fear of not being able to afford retirement, questioning its rationality [07:29]. Karen clarifies that for many of her clients who are financially secure, such fears are irrational and stem from a misplaced focus on problems rather than solutions.
- Quote: "Worrying about the other shoe dropping... is an irrational fear." [08:12]
She emphasizes the importance of a proactive approach to financial planning and personal growth, aligning with principles of positive psychology that correlate with greater financial success.
The Gilded Cage: A Metaphor for Empty Ambition
Jean references the metaphor Karen uses in her book, the "gilded cage", to describe lives that appear prosperous outwardly but lack inner fulfillment [09:49].
Karen explains it as a life filled with superficial success markers—luxurious homes, social status—while internally, individuals may feel trapped, anxious, and disconnected.
- Quote: "The gilded cage is the metaphor of people whose lives look fine on Instagram and are nowhere near fine on the inside." [10:16]
She shares the poignant example of Brandon Miller, a seemingly successful individual who tragically committed suicide despite outward appearances.
Perfectionism: The Root of Empty Ambition
Jean connects the discussion to perfectionism, asking Karen to elaborate on its role [15:19]. Karen identifies perfectionism as the core issue, representing high standards that have devolved into arbitrary and harsh self-imposed measurements.
- Quote: "Perfectionism is high standards gone bad... it’s inherently a fixed mindset." [15:25]
She contrasts perfectionists' fixed mindset with the growth mindset, highlighting how the latter fosters creativity and expansion, whereas perfectionism stifles growth and breeds self-judgment.
The Challenge of Self-Compassion for Ambitious Individuals
Jean observes that ambitious individuals often struggle with self-compassion, being harsh on themselves and others [16:58]. Karen attributes this to a lifetime of using harsh self-criticism as a tool for success, which eventually leads to burnout and a realization of its unsustainability in middle age.
- Quote: "Most perfectionists are really mean to themselves and as a result, quite judgmental of others." [15:25]
Cultivating Self-Compassion and Breaking Free
Jean questions how one can transition from relentless ambition to a more compassionate self-view [12:24]. Karen shares her personal journey of overcoming financial instability and personal trauma, leading her to adopt practices that promote self-compassion and authentic ambition.
- Quote: "If I can... anybody can. Don't be afraid of financial issues. Really, just be afraid of staying in a place that you don't belong in." [10:16]
Daily Habits to Prevent Falling Back into Harmful Patterns
Jean inquires about practical habits to maintain a healthier ambition [26:58]. Karen recommends three key practices:
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Self-Soothing:
- Description: Treating oneself with the same kindness extended to a child.
- Quote: "It's okay. Help is on the way. You can fix this." [27:43]
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Visual Reminders:
- Description: Keeping a picture of oneself as a child to reinforce self-compassion.
- Quote: "I keep a picture of myself... reminding myself that she is still here." [27:43]
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Healthy Distractions:
- Description: Replacing numbing addictions with positive distractions like enjoying television shows.
- Quote: "Substitute my fixations that are not helpful with fixations that are helpful." [27:43]
Karen emphasizes that these practices are not about achieving perpetual joy but about consistently moving towards personal joy and fulfillment.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
In wrapping up the episode, Jean encourages listeners to engage further with Karen through upcoming mailbag sessions where personal questions will be addressed. She also shares her own television show recommendations, fostering a sense of community and shared experiences.
Karen concludes by reinforcing the importance of aligning one's work with their soul and embracing a proactive, joy-centered approach to ambition.
- Final Quote: "If you're willing to practice in this direction, you will break free." [27:43]
Takeaways
- Empty Ambition: The relentless pursuit of success without fulfillment leads to emotional distress and unfulfillment.
- Perfectionism: High standards can become detrimental when they turn into fixed, self-sabotaging mindsets.
- Self-Compassion: Cultivating kindness towards oneself is essential for breaking free from empty ambition.
- Practical Habits: Implementing self-soothing, visual reminders, and healthy distractions can sustain a healthier pursuit of success.
Resources Mentioned
- Book: Breaking Free from the Cage of Ambition, Perfectionism, and the Relentless Pursuit of More by Karen Eldad.
- TV Shows: Jersey Boys, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Nobody Wants this, Colin from Accounts, Matlock.
- Programs: HerMoney’s Finance Fix and Investing Fix.
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