HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Episode 466: A Better Version Of You
Release Date: March 12, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 466 of HerMoney with Jean Chatzky, Jean delves into the intricacies of personal growth and the profound impact of sleep on financial success. The episode features insightful conversations with Olga Hazan, author of "Me But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change," and Luke Kelly, CEO of Bryte, a leading sleep technology company. This episode offers a blend of scientific research, practical advice, and personal anecdotes to guide listeners toward becoming better versions of themselves.

Interview with Olga Hazan: Unlocking Personal Growth

[03:08] Jean Chatzky:
Jean sets the stage by introducing Olga Hazan, highlighting her extensive research on self-improvement and personality change. She poses a fundamental question about the possibility of altering one's personality and emphasizes the importance of intentional growth.

Personality Change vs. Habit Change

[03:31] Olga Hazan:
Olga asserts, "Personality change is possible, but you have to really want to do it." She explains that true personality change involves altering daily habits, behaviors, and thought patterns, leading to subtle yet significant shifts in one's persona.

[04:12] Olga Hazan:
When differentiating personality change from habit change, Olga elaborates, "Personality change is sort of all. It encompasses a little bit more than habits. So it's habit, but it's also like your mindset and your thoughts around things." She emphasizes that personality change is a deeper transformation that involves embracing new behaviors and mindsets.

The Impact of Neuroticism on Financial Success

[07:10] Olga Hazan:
Olga discusses the profound effect of neuroticism on an individual's financial well-being, stating, "Neuroticism feels really bad. … It can feel like a huge pay raise." She references research indicating that even a small reduction in neuroticism can be equated to earning an additional $314,000 annually, underscoring the tangible benefits of improving emotional stability.

[08:20] Olga Hazan:
She further explains, "Being high in all of those traits is associated with better health, longevity, earning more money, better relationships, just sort of health and well being." This highlights how modest adjustments in personality traits can lead to significant improvements in various life domains.

Strategies for Personal Growth

[12:44] Olga Hazan:
Olga introduces the concept of Episodic Future Thinking, a tactic where individuals vividly imagine specific future scenarios to enhance motivation. She shares, "What are you going to buy with the money that you save? … What will it feel like to drive the car?" This technique helps bridge the gap between short-term temptations and long-term goals.

[14:26] Olga Hazan:
Discussing the effectiveness of committed activities, Olga recounts her positive experience with improv classes: "It was a lot more fun than I expected. … It wasn't as scary to act silly in front of them." This illustrates how stepping out of one's comfort zone can lead to unexpected joys and personal growth.

Navigating Social Connections

[17:17] Jean Chatzky:
Jean transitions to the topic of maintaining and deepening existing friendships while fostering new ones. Olga responds with practical advice on lowering the stakes for social interactions: "Just texting people. … It can be something as easy as, 'Want to come walk around the block?'" She emphasizes the importance of making socializing effortless and accessible.

[23:08] Olga Hazan:
Reflecting on her personal journey, Olga shares, "I realized that … it's often better to be with other people, if that makes sense for you." She highlights the shift from viewing herself as an introvert to recognizing the vital role of social connections in her well-being.

Key Takeaways for Listeners

1. Embrace Intentional Change: Commitment to altering daily habits and mindsets can lead to meaningful personality transformations.

2. Utilize Episodic Future Thinking: Vividly envisioning future goals enhances motivation and bridges short-term actions with long-term aspirations.

3. Commit to Social Engagements: Engaging in structured social activities, even if initially uncomfortable, can enrich personal connections and overall happiness.

4. Lower Socializing Barriers: Simplifying social interactions can make maintaining and building friendships more manageable and less intimidating.

Mailbag Segment: The Crucial Role of Sleep in Financial Success

After the insightful discussion with Olga, Jean shifts gears to address listeners' questions about sleep. She introduces Luke Kelly, CEO of Bryte, who shares expertise on sleep technology and its correlation with financial well-being.

The Connection Between Sleep and Income

[34:30] Jean Chatzky:
Jean references an article by Ellen Cushing, noting a significant decline in social event attendance, and questions whether this trend stems from a lingering COVID-19 effect or other factors.

[35:16] Luke Kelly:
Luke emphasizes, "Sleep is the foundation of wellness. … Administrators are starting to recognize that sleep is really important to get the most out of your workers." He highlights research linking adequate sleep with higher productivity, better health, and increased income.

Listener Questions: Prioritizing Sleep for Career Success

Question from Elizabeth
"Am I sabotaging my career and future earnings by skimping on sleep or is pushing through exhaustion necessary to get ahead?"

[32:34] Luke Kelly:
Luke responds, "Make sure you keep sleep a priority. … Seven to nine hours of uninterrupted, restful, restorative sleep is just so incredibly important." He debunks the myth of compensating for sleep loss on weekends and underscores the necessity of consistent sleep routines for optimal performance.

Question from Teresa
"What are the best techniques to sleep better despite financial anxiety? Is there any way to break the cycle of stress and poor sleep?"

[35:16] Luke Kelly:
Luke advocates for mindfulness techniques, particularly Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), as effective methods to manage anxiety and improve sleep quality. He recommends accessible tools like Headspace and Calm, as well as establishing wind-down routines to facilitate restful sleep.

Practical Sleep Improvement Tips

[30:29] Luke Kelly:
Luke advises against common sleep disruptors such as alcohol and screen time before bed. Instead, he suggests creating wind-down experiences, such as reading or practicing mindfulness exercises, to transition smoothly into sleep.

[37:14] Luke Kelly:
He highlights the negative impact of excessive work hours: "Fatigue costs employers almost $2,000 annually per employee. … your decision making under fatigue is similar to being drunk." Luke advocates for a culture shift that values sleep as an investment rather than a weakness, promoting better overall productivity and financial outcomes.

Key Takeaways for Listeners

1. Prioritize Consistent Sleep: Aim for 7-9 hours of quality sleep each night to enhance cognitive function, productivity, and financial success.

2. Implement Wind-Down Routines: Establish pre-sleep rituals such as reading or mindfulness exercises to ease the transition into restful sleep.

3. Embrace Mindfulness Techniques: Utilize CBT and other mindfulness practices to manage anxiety and improve sleep quality.

4. Advocate for a Sleep-Friendly Culture: Encourage workplaces to recognize the value of sleep, fostering environments that support employee well-being and productivity.

Conclusion

Episode 466 of HerMoney with Jean Chatzky offers a compelling blend of personal development strategies and practical advice on optimizing sleep for financial and personal success. Through engaging conversations with experts like Olga Hazan and Luke Kelly, listeners are equipped with actionable insights to foster meaningful personality changes and prioritize sleep as a cornerstone of their well-being and financial prosperity. Whether seeking to become a better version of oneself or striving to enhance productivity through better sleep, this episode serves as a valuable guide for women navigating the unique financial challenges they face.

Notable Quotes:

• "Personality change is possible, but you have to really want to do it." – Olga Hazan [03:31]

• "Neuroticism feels really bad. … It can feel like a huge pay raise." – Olga Hazan [07:10]

• "Sleep is the foundation of wellness. … Administrators are starting to recognize that sleep is really important to get the most out of your workers." – Luke Kelly [35:16]

• "Make sure you keep sleep a priority. … Seven to nine hours of uninterrupted, restful, restorative sleep is just so incredibly important." – Luke Kelly [32:34]

Resources Mentioned:

• Olga Hazan's Book: Me But Better: The Science and Promise of Personality Change
  For more information, visit olgahazan.substack.com or follow her on Twitter and Bluesky.

• Bryte Sleep Technology:
  Explore Bryte's offerings at bryte.com and use the code hermoney@bryte.com for discounts.

• Mindfulness Apps:

  • Headspace
  • Calm

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