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HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Ep 485: Where Health Meets Wealth: Financial Planning with Dr. Carolyn McClanahan
00:35:46
How to build a life plan that protects both your wallet and your wellbeing.
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- [00:03]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
If you aren't taking care of yourself by your early 40s, late 50s, it's going to be really hard to catch up. So those people in their 30s and 40s, you can do it. And it starts by one understanding what you're spending and why.
- [00:18]
Jeanne Chatsky
Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining me today on HerMoney. I'm Jeanne Chatsky. We are at the Morningstar Investment Conference. I'm with Carolyn Mcclanahan and let me just tell you why I'm sitting down with her today. I don't think that there is any denying the fact that health and wealth are inextricably linked. If you are not healthy, the price tag is going to take a toll on your finances. If you're not financially secure, it's pretty tough to take care of your health. Well, Dr. Carolyn McClanahan lives at the intersection of these two things. She is a physician, a certified financial planner, and the founder of Life Planning Partners. She started her career in medicine, but after seeing how deeply these two things are intertwined, she set out to help people plan for both. And today, as I said, we are both at the Morningstar Conference on Navy Pier in Chicago, where tomorrow we'll sit down for a panel conversation with our friend Christine Benz. But I was thrilled to have an opportunity to pull her into the podcast booth to Today we are going to.
- [01:32]
Christine Benz
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- [03:09]
Jeanne Chatsky
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- [03:10]
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- [03:33]
Jeanne Chatsky
Carolyn, we were just saying we have never met in person.
- [03:36]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
I know. Jean, thank you first for having me. I'm just so excited about this conference and we've never, we've known each other for many, many years and you've done such great work. And it's like now I finally get to meet you in person after having talked so many times.
- [03:49]
Jeanne Chatsky
Yeah, well, right, right back at you. The reason we've talked so many times is because you do such good work. And when financial journalists like me need a financial planner who knows what they're talking about, it's no surprise that we often reach out to you. Can we just start with a little bit of a level set as, as you look at the financial health and the physical health of women in the United States, where do you think we are?
- [04:19]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Well, goodness, you know, the problem that so many women face is, is they do such a great job taking care of everybody else and they don't take care of themselves. And that's both financially and physically. So it's, they start to pay the toll when they're in their 50s, 60s, all of a sudden they've woken up, they're taking care of elderly parents, they've already taken care of kids and now may be helping with grandkids. And they've tried to work through the whole time and you know, their careers didn't get the boost it should have gotten because they were doing so much caretaking. So. And then when they hit those 50s and 60s, they say, oh my gosh, hope my husband doesn't leave me because I would be financially not ready.
- [05:00]
Jeanne Chatsky
They, they feel it, they feel it both ways. In other words, right. That, that caregiving, whether it's kids or whether it's older parents can be pretty physically daunting as well.
- [05:10]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Oh, absolutely, yeah. Caregivers face such huge issues not only with financial stuff, but with their own mental, physical health, because caregiving is a hard job.
- [05:20]
Jeanne Chatsky
We've talked, I've talked so often about how women get an Unfair shake when it comes to the financial landscape, when we talk about the persistent gender pay gap, even when we talk about longer life expectancies, which are, you know, a good thing. But it's interesting how unfair the playing field is when it comes to, to health care, too. It goes way beyond the pink tax, where.
- [05:49]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Oh, yeah, we are.
- [05:50]
Jeanne Chatsky
Well, tell me. I mean, we're running an item in our newsletter tomorrow that talks about the additional dollars that women spend on prescription drugs.
- [06:00]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Right. Well, you know, it all goes way back to medicine was very patriarchal for many, many, many years. And, you know, finally, women make up more than half the physician workforce now. It's still not quite right because it's very specialty specific where women end up and where men end up. And in the past, though, because men were in charge of everything, so much of the research was centered around white males. And so much of what has been put out has ended up being very racist and misogynistic type of health care that women and people of color end up receiving. So I think those inequities are slowly being corrected, but it's going to take many decades to fix that. And that's only if healthcare doesn't get broken in the meantime by all the other forces that are intruding on our healthcare system right now.
- [06:52]
Jeanne Chatsky
If you were to. I mean, I'm gonna ask you to wear both hats for this interview. With all of the uncertainty that's going on these days in healthcare and politics in the economy, let's take it age by age. If you were talking to a young woman starting out, how do you get her off on the right foot?
- [07:12]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Well, the most important thing, and we're going to probably talk about this in our session tomorrow, we do premarital counseling, financial counseling for clients. And I think young women and men don't understand the societal pressures that force women to be the one to take time off to have babies. Force women to be the one to be the caretaker.
- [07:34]
Jeanne Chatsky
So.
- [07:35]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
So we open their eyes about how the financial disparities can occur and try to get them to think forward about how they're going to protect both people in that relationship as they age. And what's also interesting about that, I think men are shortchanged because they don't get to be home with the kids and they don't get to be as part of their life growing up. So trying to get both of them to take care of their careers and the children and whatever else life throws at them is a big push in the early 20s and late 20s.
- [08:06]
Jeanne Chatsky
I'm thinking of my children as I talk to you. I've got, as the listeners know, I've got a daughter who's 27. She's going to get married next year.
- [08:14]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Oh, congratulations.
- [08:15]
Jeanne Chatsky
Thank you. My son is 30. He got married last year. Specifically, how do you advise these couples to protect both people? I mean, do you, as they are looking at kids, suggest they stay in the workforce? Do you suggest they take turns? Do you suggest they get particular kinds of insurance policies or maximize the use of the spousal ira? What do you put on their roadmap?
- [08:46]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Your greatest asset is your human capital, your ability to work. So having those conversations because more women are going straight to the workforce. They're not getting married right out of school anymore, so they're in the workforce already. And so making sure both are thinking about taking care of their best asset and that's their careers. And with that, I open up that conversation. I have that hard conversation of when you have kids. Everybody's employer is a little bit different about how they handle maternity leave, paternity leave. And this country to me, just has unfair disadvantages for women when they're having babies and for men too, because a lot of places don't get paternity leave. So working out how it's going to look like and trying to get them to save in advance for these issues, like you said, maximizing retirement plans for both spouses, where in reality, if some were to ever get divorced in the future, that would be split equitably, but it's just nice for everybody to have their own bucket. So things like making sure that they're creating that emergency fund where they both can take off a little bit of work or cut back, try to find good employers that are going to help them create a pro family environment instead of try to marginalize them if they want to have kids.
- [10:03]
Jeanne Chatsky
How about on the health care side of things for these young couples? My son called me last week just apoplectic because he realized his his wife is in graduate school, she's on his health plan. He realized what his deductible was, but I think he didn't realize what their deductible was and it blew him away.
- [10:24]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
No. Well, you. I have spoken on health care and health care policy and I've actually worked with members of Congress on health care policy. And to me, our health care system is broken. So, you know, the Affordable Care act had a lot of good things, but there were a lot of bad things about it too. And I probably was the only one back when it was written that was willing to say good and bad about it. So I got the most hate mail of anybody that wrote about it. But it is unfair. And so it's really important for people to understand their health insurance. But both what the wife and the husband, if it's a traditional couple, what they have available, and make sure they plan appropriately for when one of them takes off. And, you know, it's. It's a hard thing.
- [11:09]
Christine Benz
Yeah.
- [11:09]
Jeanne Chatsky
All right, let's fast forward out of those early married years and talk about the women in my audience who feel like they did not start soon enough. I know that there are many women listening in their 40s and their early 50s who have that regret. Regret of either not saving at all in the early years, not maxing out in those early years, and they're feeling like it's too late.
- [11:37]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yeah, it's never too late. I mean, just like for health, everything you do to take care of yourself on a daily basis adds up for the future. And because we'll see, just like in healthcare, I call the 40s the point of no return. If you aren't taking care of yourself by your early 40s, late 50s, it's going to be really hard to catch up. So those people in their 30s and 40s, you can do it. And it starts by one, understanding what you're spending and why. Because too many people just do thoughtless spending, convenient spending, so really taking a deep dive on what money means to them. I love the book the Psychology of Money because it really helps people think about how money fits into their lives and then just start socking it away a little at a time and work on your career. The one thing that I think that is misguided in society is everybody has this thing of, I'm going to quit work at 65. You don't have to, but you have to have a career where you can work past 65, and it's better from a health perspective, from a psychological perspective, from, you know, just having your work, people are sometimes your friends. And so just having that good social interaction through work. There's so many reasons to work longer, but at a job you love and a job that you can keep doing for longer, that's a great way to. To think about it. So to have them catch up with what's doing, what's right for their career.
- [12:59]
Jeanne Chatsky
I'm sure that a lot of women come to you when they are at the point of divorce and they want to get their ducks in a row.
- [13:07]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Right.
- [13:08]
Jeanne Chatsky
What, what do you tell women at that stage of their life.
- [13:11]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
So it's super, super important for them to have transparency around finances. And if they're already in trouble with their spouse, to work very early to make sure they understand the finances in advance before anything happens. And, you know, work with either a divorce mediator or therapist to figure out, you know, what it is that you need in advance. Now, I had a client once who, her husband was terminally ill. They did not have a good relationship, and he was threatening to spend all the money before he died. And so she came to me wanting to figure out what do. What do I need to make sure he doesn't get rid of so I'll be okay when he does die. And, you know, and so we did a financial plan plan for her. And it's like, you got to make sure you protect this, and if he starts trying to give it away, you know, you need to talk to an attorney and thank. Sadly, well, I hate to say, thankfully, he died. You know, it was a very sad situation. She ended up being financially okay, but understanding what your needs are before you go down that route.
- [14:16]
Jeanne Chatsky
You know, what's so interesting to me about that story is it seems like. It seems like it's a needle in the haystack, but I know it's not right. I know even if you are not married to somebody who's terminally ill and wants to spend everything or give it away, whatever is unique about your personal financial situation is unique to you. Yet I don't think people understand that. I think they think, oh, I'll just go get a financial plan. And it's like, it. I could, you know, pull it off the Internet.
- [14:51]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yeah. You know, you. You brought up, like, talking to women in their 30s and 40s, and the one thing that I have found so important for everybody is try to create financial transparency in relationships from the very beginning. Money is a big cause for divorce. And if people don't understand how they should work together on money, and if they can't be transparent about money early in the relationship, when they're still getting along, they need therapy, they need counseling so they can learn how work together. I find that couples that have good financial transparency and don't have secrets tend to be the ones that stay together.
- [15:28]
Jeanne Chatsky
You know, did. Did you ever see the. The research about joint accounts versus separate accounts and prenups versus not prenups?
- [15:37]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
I have not seen that.
- [15:38]
Jeanne Chatsky
So it actually points to a finding that people that couples that have joint accounts tend to stay married, that couples that. That don't have prenups tend to stay married. I mean, I'm out there telling people that it's very important to maintain some autonomy and that you should absolutely get a prenup if you get married when you have some assets. And yet I don't know that that's the best relationship advice.
- [16:08]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Well, it again, like you said earlier, every situation's individualized. And I love that the joint account thing means they tend to stay married because I agree. But they also have to have some agreement on how money will be spent. But everybody needs money of their own. You know, if I want to go buy ice cream, I don't want to have to report to my husband that I bought ice cream. Even though like he gets a ding on the credit card so he's pay cash so he doesn't know I'm eating ice cream again. But you know, you need your own money. And, and so even we have a joint account for all of our expenses, but we agree on how to spend money. Now, the prenup issue, it really does matter because we have clients who go into a marriage where it's a significant amount that they have and it's all they'll ever have.
- [16:55]
Jeanne Chatsky
Right.
- [16:56]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
And so it's important to protect that. So we do. Again, that's a premarital counseling of you have this big pot of money that maybe they inherited and you're not ever going to have a chance to make money like this again. And if you support your husband with this money, he's going to have a claim to alimony on that money. So having that prenup in advance saying one, this is separate property, I might use it to make our life a little bit better. But if we divorce, you can't make claims on alimony for this. So again, every situation is individualized.
- [17:29]
Jeanne Chatsky
And for the record, when I got married for the second time, I did get a prenup, but my husband wanted it as well. We both came into the marriage with assets, we both came into the marriage with kids. And we both came in with responsibilities for those kids that were not on the plate of the other person. And it was very, very important to keep those separate.
- [17:50]
Christine Benz
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- [20:28]
Jeanne Chatsky
Let's talk about financial planning as you do it. One of the things that I've always appreciated about you is that you bring all this medical knowledge, which is really about life cycle, to the business of financial planning. How does that make you practice it differently?
- [20:46]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
My career goal has been much bigger than my practice is to educate advisors on all those intersections of health and finance. And a lot of them feel like it's not in their place to talk about health, but it's so important from many perspectives of longevity, risk, chronic illness planning. You know, if somebody has a higher risk for disease, then you need to kind of keep that in the back of Your mind. People talk about how, well if you're healthy, you're going to live longer and your expenses are going to be lower. Well, maybe not because then you're going to get Alzheimer's and then you may have higher long term care costs. So health affects longevity planning, cash flow planning affects estate planning and even insurance planning. So it touches all different parts of the financial plan. So it's important for advisors to understand their clients basic health so they can plan appropriately. I was in this AICPA meeting years ago. This guy said we should be planning for everybody to live to 100. And I immediately stood up. I was probably an Advisor for like three years. I said, what if your client's 340 pounds, has diabetes and smokes? And he said yes. And I'm like, that's wrong. I'm getting out there trying to get them to live their fullest life and take better care of themselves.
- [22:01]
Jeanne Chatsky
When you think about the long term care question, because when I look at my email box, I don't think there's anything that comes up more frequently or with more frustration than the long term care solutions on the marketplace today. How are you solving for it for your clients?
- [22:24]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
I think most people are having the wrong conversation in that they're talking about the money and how to pay for it, whereas you can only control what you can control. And the most important thing in planning for long term care is to think through the logistics of your long term care need. I help people plan for the big four of aging. That can be financially devastating if you don't plan appropriate and that's where are you going to live as you age? For example, if you're going to age in place, is your home aging friendly? And then when you're no longer able safely live there, say you get dementia now you're a risk to your caretakers and others that you're willing to move. Because too many people say I want to never go to a nursing home that's hugely expensive when you have dementia. So it's better to go to a nursing home. And then so documenting those conversations so your, your caretakers, your children know what's the right thing to do, when to get help with health care decisions and helping think through your end of life choices. So having good advance directives, too much money and angst is spent at the end of life taking care of people who no longer really want to be alive. We need to honor that and we need to take care of people and keep them comfortable and give them quality of life instead of just this treadmill of medical going back and forth to the nursing home and the hospital, you know, and that can save a lot of money. That's an uncomfortable conversation, but it's true. Yeah. And then finally when to turn over financial decision making because you know, the biggest danger to an elder's finances is themselves. It's not fraud or abuse, it's them making not very good choices because they can't think through complex financial decisions when they get older. And the fourth seems, you know, does it really fit? But when are you going to quit driving? And I've had a couple of clients who, and this is what really got me on this kick, that financial planners should be addressing this issue. Who had wrecks and were sued because they shouldn't have been driving. Somebody needs to bring up that conversation.
- [24:17]
Jeanne Chatsky
Have you figured out a way to have that conversation that is palatable?
- [24:22]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yes. So first off, it's based on behavioral psychology. When we start talking about this with clients in their late 50s, early 60s when they're still. Well we are. We bring up the big four, we call them and we document what their issues are. And we have actually a worksheet which I'm happy to share with your audience.
- [24:41]
Jeanne Chatsky
That'd be amazing. We'll put it in the show notes or on the Hermoney website.
- [24:45]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Thank you. So we create a transportation plan for when they are not able to drive because most of those people in their 50s and 60s that have parents in their 80s, they're trying to get quit driving. So we're documenting that and every few years we remind them, hey, here's your transportation plan. And we even had. So I had my young 20 something advisors go out to clients who are in their early 80s and they didn't know how to use Lyft or Uber so they went out to their house, put Lyft and Uber on their phone and they went bar hopping. They made them use lift, an old Irish couple. And so the two 20 year old, 24 and 26 they were at the time, took the two 80 year olds out bar hopping. But they made them use Uber and Lyft the whole way. And so teaching, so creating that transportation, alternative transportation advance. So when you do have to take away the keys, it's not a foreign concept.
- [25:36]
Jeanne Chatsky
Going back to the paying for long term care question as you look at distributing the assets.
- [25:45]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Right.
- [25:45]
Jeanne Chatsky
My ex husband used to say assets are fungible. And I kind of think he's right about that. You know, if you've got money in a house, you could sell the house if You've got money in an insurance policy, you could maybe get it out of the insurance policy. What's your performance preferred solution for paying for a long term care incident.
- [26:05]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Right. And so after we come up with that long term care plan, when people are in their 50s and 60s, we actually put a price to that. So you know, if they agree to move to a facility or whatever, where are they going to live? And for people who have. And this is where health comes into play again. For people who don't have great health, we plan for about two years long term care because they're the ones bringing down the averages.
- [26:27]
Jeanne Chatsky
Right.
- [26:28]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
For people have really good health, have higher risk of dementia, the average long term care needs about five years. And we don't make them segregate that money or put it aside. We do ongoing planning. We revisit their financial plan and their cash flow every year and we always make sure there's that cushion for whatever life throws them at the end. And whether that's going to be long term care or some big event they want to do, we just make sure that they have that cushion set aside whether it's in the house, whether we buy a long term care plan. If right now to me long term care plans aren't always the best. I have clients that will do hybrid policies.
- [27:05]
Jeanne Chatsky
That's what I bought.
- [27:06]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yeah. Mostly because it's a great way to segregate the assets. If the family sees this money is for long term care, they're actually more likely to use it for long term care as if they have to write a check. It's a lot more painful. But not everybody wants to do that. And if they can self fund for that two to five years, that's fine too. Not a big fan now of the traditional policies I've just seen on the back end because I started in this industry profession or 2000.
- [27:33]
Jeanne Chatsky
Yep.
- [27:33]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
And now that I have clients making claims, insurance companies aren't very friendly about dealing with the claims. And so I'd much rather somebody have an indemnity policy. Soon as they reach those activities of daily living loss they just start getting a check.
- [27:49]
Jeanne Chatsky
I, I'm with you on that. I've been the adult child of parents filing claims and it's definitely not easy. Can I just ask you to repeat those guidelines for healthy and non healthy people? How much money you should set aside? Because I've never heard them and I think people should hear them again. I think they're really helpful.
- [28:07]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Right. Yeah. So the Genworth cost of care site is really invaluable you can look up the cost of care in your area for assisted living, skilled care at home care. So in Jacksonville area, I'll use that. For example, you know, nursing homes about 120,000. Assisted living is about 80. If you want 24 hour care, it's about $250,000 a year in your home. So that's why you need to think about, am I really going to stay in my home if I need 24 hour care? And what we do is I did a study a few years ago, I didn't publish it, but I actually looked at all these different cities. Not every city, but, you know, probably about two dozen cities. And it's like, what's the break even cost for getting care at home versus going into a facility? And for assisted living, it ends up being about six to eight hours. For skilled care, it ends up being about 12 to 14 hours. So if you need care more than that, it's going to be cheaper to go into a facility based on average cost. And so if you have a home that your home equity is 250,000, you got a year's worth of care there. Right?
- [29:12]
Jeanne Chatsky
Right.
- [29:12]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
So around the clock care, you have about two years of nursing home care there.
- [29:17]
Jeanne Chatsky
We've talked about health, we've talked about finance. We haven't talked about where health and finance so often intersect, which is mental health.
- [29:26]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Oh yeah.
- [29:27]
Jeanne Chatsky
And you've written about the importance of addressing mental health and financial plan planning.
- [29:32]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yep.
- [29:33]
Jeanne Chatsky
How do you think both consumers but also advisors can help support people going through mental health challenges, Women going through mental health challenges, especially given how stressful the last couple of years have been.
- [29:50]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we have a mental health care crisis in this country. Not enough mental health care providers. You know, the ACA started paying for mental health care, but insurance companies don't pay worth a darn to the mental health care providers. So a lot of them aren't on the platform. So how do you get good mental health care? And I think it's really important that for advisors and people to understand mental health is a continuum, you just may be having some basic challenges, but you're in general. Okay. And so that's where maybe especially when you start noticing that maybe you are having some depression or anxiety over things. The self help groups, there's so many organizations and just women that get together to just talk about, talk it out. I have read probably every self help book out there. I love Brene Brown. Just pick up and start reading. And my mental health begins every morning with reading something either on stoicism or some Brene Brown, or just to center myself on how can I live my best life today and do a great job helping be a good force in the world? And so when you're having those mental health challenges and you can't afford mental health care, reach out to people. And there are many organizations that'll provide benefits. But then if it's getting deeper in advisors for who are listening to this, please be open to opening that can of worms. If you recognize that your client's having issues, say something that could save their life. You're a human being. You don't have to be a doctor to ask somebody, are you doing okay? Are you thinking. I had a client once called who was suicidal. No. And it was all to do with things with her family. And so I talked her into getting help and talked more about things you can do to get better mental health, and she did it, and she's fine. And granted, I am a doctor, so I'm comfortable with those conversations. But just, you know, being able to talk about it and if people just communicate better that we're not all okay all the time, not everything you see on Facebook isn't real, you know, and so everybody's having challenges and be open and get help.
- [31:58]
Jeanne Chatsky
Last question. One of the things that I always found remarkable about your practice was you kept your clients. You basically said, I've got enough. This is the number of people that I can serve.
- [32:12]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Well, right?
- [32:14]
Jeanne Chatsky
As we are looking for advisors, as other women who are listening are looking for advisors, what should they be looking for?
- [32:24]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
To me, the most important thing is somebody that does real financial planning. The sad thing is, is people think investments are financial planning, whereas investments are just one part of financial planning. You need somebody who's going to look at your life, what your life goals are, what's that going to cost you? And look at your cash flow, your insurance, to make sure you're not overinsured or underinsured, to make sure that you've done your estate planning. Somebody that's taken that holistic view of you and made sure that you fit money into your life appropriately. That should be first and foremost. And, you know, the. The sad thing is, is when people are selling products and that their pay is based solely on products, it's hard for them to deliver that holistic planning if everything is dependent on a sale. So I'm not beating on the salespeople, but it's really hard to get good financial planning for that. So looking for somebody that actually does financial planning charges for financial planning. You know, I'm really proud of where this profession has gone the last 20 years I've been in it now. I was kind of a outlier. And then I charged flat fees for everything we do, including investment management. Everybody said I was crazy. And what's happened now is there's a whole world of flat fee advisors out there. People that are giving just advice and not doing asset management. You can look them up, google flat fee advisors or advice only planners and get the help you need at a reasonable cost.
- [33:49]
Jeanne Chatsky
Were there more people who said that you were nuts for charging a flat fee than there were that said you were nuts for leaving medicine to become a financial plan?
- [33:57]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
There are so many people that have said I'm nuts through the years. And it's all good because it's like, you know, I just follow my passion and I love helping people. And I felt a little guilty about leaving medicine originally because I actually love patient care. What I didn't like was the misogyny of medicine and the business of medicine. And I still, I still actively keep my license and I volunteered throughout my career in medicine. Right now I'm becoming the medical director for the sexual assault exam team in the city and as a volunteer and, you know, so it's just my way to be able to give back. I don't do pro bono financial planning because I'm always volunteering in medicine. But you know, to me, it's like when you're out there just trying to do good and making sure you're enjoying your life while you're doing good, you can ask for more. So even though everybody says I'm crazy, I'm a happy crazy.
- [34:47]
Jeanne Chatsky
Well, we're happy to have you. Carolyn Mcclanahan, thank you so much for having this conversation today. It's such a pleasure.
- [34:54]
Carolyn Mcclanahan
Yeah, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
- [34:57]
Jeanne Chatsky
Thank you for listening.
- [34:58]
Christine Benz
If you love today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
- [35:05]
Jeanne Chatsky
Your feedback means the world to me.
- [35:08]
Christine Benz
And if you're ready to keep the Money conversation going, HerMoney has three amazing programs designed to help you feel more confident and in control of your money. There's Finance Fix. It's our four week coaching program that helps you rethink your spending, find hidden savings, and make smarter choices for the future. Our pre retirement program runs for six weeks and walks you through building a retirement strategy that's personalized for your next chapter. Finally, there's Investing Fix, our investing club for women. It meets every other week on Zoom. It is a supportive space to learn, ask questions, grow your investing confidence and build your portfolio. And your first month is absolutely free. These programs are true for helping level the playing field for women financially. I'd love for you to join us. Her money is produced by Haley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.