← HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Ep 486: The Confidence to Run: Lessons from Women Leading Local Government
00:31:48
And how to get involved on the ground.
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- [00:03]
Amanda Littman
Nobody is born a politician the same way nobody's born an artist or a musician. The way you become one is by doing the thing. You become a politician by putting your name on the ballot, running for office, doing as Sarah said, talking to voters, being on the ground, connecting with people, and hopefully winning.
- [00:21]
Jean Chatzky
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Her Money. I'm Jean Chatzky. Thanks so much for joining us today. And this is a new one for us. Today we're talking politics, but not the kind that's stuck in Washington gridlock. We're talking about politics that are being reimagined by a new generation of leaders. Because right now, something big is happening. If you have not been following the New York City mayoral primary, here's the headline. 33 year old Zoran Mandani, a Democratic socialist, just beat former Governor Andrew Cuomo to become the Democratic nominee. It was a grassroots campaign powered by over 50,000 volunteers and bold ideas like rent freezes and city run grocery stores. This wasn't just a political upset, this was a wake up call. It was a reminder that young people aren't just talking about change, they're making change. They're running for office, they're winning, and they're reshaping what leadership looks like in this country. Because the people who run for office, they shape everything. Our neighborhoods, our schools, our budgets, our rights. And we need more women in these rooms. I'm just putting it out there. We need more moms in the room. We need more leaders who get it. Joining me today are two women who are leading this movement from the inside. Amanda Littman is the co founder and executive director of Run for Something, an organization that has helped more than 100,000 young people take their first step into elected office. She is also the author of the new book When we're in the Next Generation's Guide to Leadership. And Sarah Pierce, someone we are lucky enough to call one of our own, is her money's managing editor. She is previously one of the youngest chief of staffs in the New York State Senate. And today she is the first ever woman elected mayor of her hometown, Watertown, New York. Sarah's gonna have to tell us if we're her side gig or if being mayor is her side gig. Just saying. Anyway, today we are diving into why young women need to run, what's standing in their way, and how local leadership might just be the secret to real, lasting change. We are going to take a quick break. Between work, family, and everything in between, figuring out dinner every night can start to feel like just one more thing. On your to do list. That's where every plate comes in. At HerMoney, we love solutions that save you time and money and and everyplate does both. You get meals that are fast, flavorful and affordable, like sweet chili chicken with zesty carrots and scallion rice or Banh Mi style tacos with pickled veggies and sweet chili mayo. And they're delivered right to your door. The recipes are clear, they're easy to follow. Everything comes together in about 30 minutes. No stress and no mystery ingredients. Just good food you'll actually look forward to eating. And here's the best part. You'll spend less on every plate than you would on your normal grocery run or a week worth of takeout. Great meals at a great value. That is something that we can all get behind. What are you waiting for? Dig into these flavor packed meals your household will love. New customers can enjoy this special offer of only $1.99ameal. Go to everyplate.com podcast and use code HERMONEY199 to get started. Applied as a discount on your first box. Limited time only.
- [04:22]
Sarah Pierce
Race the rudders. Race the sails. Raise the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.
- [04:28]
Amanda Littman
Over.
- [04:29]
Sarah Pierce
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- [04:52]
Jean Chatzky
And we are back. Amanda and Sarah, welcome.
- [04:56]
Amanda Littman
Thank you for having me.
- [04:57]
Jean Chatzky
I want to start with Zoran Mamdhami and his campaign for a sec because wherever you sit on his politics, it was really remark. 18 to 24 year olds were the largest group of voters in this campaign. The second largest group was 25 to 29 year olds. So what does this mean about where we're headed? And Amanda, let me start with you.
- [05:21]
Amanda Littman
You know, as a New York City voter, I was personally thrilled to see someone who was so clearly championing affordability and trying to make this a place that, you know, people like me, I have two little kids, can stay and raise our families and really grow old here. His campaign was a demonstration in real time of what next generation leadership looks like. He was vulnerable, he was authentic, he was honest, he was values driven, he was boundaried. We know a lot about him. There's also a lot we don't know. He didn't overshare in any way that can make things a little messy. And he was so clearly focused on Solving problems. His leadership is about the people he's leading, not about him as a leader, which I think is something a lot of too many folks forget is the point of all of this. What I particularly love is that since his campaign won, since Election Day at the end of June, Run for Something has seen more than 10,000 young people raise their hands to say they want to run for office, too. It's our biggest organic candidate recruitment moment in the history of Run for Something. The only moment that matches it or gets close to it is the two weeks after Trump won back in November. This is an opportunity to change leaders all across the country and to bring a whole new wave of people into elected office.
- [06:34]
Jean Chatzky
Sarah, from your perch upstate, and as someone who got into politics pretty young yourself, what do you take from this?
- [06:42]
D
Well, I think, as you said, whether or not you agree with his ideas, I think it's proof that the old stereotypes that younger people are invested or are engaged in politics or government have kind of gone out the window. I mean, we're even seeing it on the local level here in upstate New York, in our community. We just had a primary election where half of the candidates who made it through to the general election were in their early 30s. And that's quite a marked change from what we've seen throughout the years in the history of Watertown. I mean, it's a similar situation to when I was elected mayor. One of the jokes at the time was it had been 30 years since Watertown had didn't have a mayor that was named Jeff or Joe. And so I kind of, you know, shook things up when Sarah took office. So I think it's, again, it's kind of bashing those old stereotypes or putting them out the window that young people are engaged.
- [07:38]
Jean Chatzky
Another one of the stereotypes he seems to have put to rest is what it takes to be qualified to run for office. I mean, his background is fascinating. Before politics, he was a foreclosure counselor, a part time tutor, a campaign organizer. What does his path tell us about who's qualified and who's not? And Sarah, take this one first, because your background was not at all political. You started out working for me.
- [08:06]
D
Sure. Yes. As you said, Gene, you were my first real job out of college. And then that led me into television reporting, which led me into starting out as a communications director for the senator, who I worked for for over a decade. So I think that the trajectory of Mandami kind of demonstrates that you don't need to have that set political or governmental experience.
- [08:31]
Amanda Littman
Yes.
- [08:31]
D
Is it Helpful. Of course it's helpful. But I think that you can be a candidate or ultimately an elected official who can go on to do a lot of good not having that traditional background. I mean, again, I go back to our makeup on the City Council. In the time that I've been on the City Council, we've had everyone from doctors and grocery store managers to contractors on the council, and each person has brought something different to the table that's been beneficial.
- [08:57]
Jean Chatzky
Amanda, as we talk about Zoran's campaign, and I'm going to leave him here, but he ran on pocketbook issues, as you said. He ran on affordability. And it makes me wonder from your perch going back to James Carville, and it's the economy, stupid. Is the economy always the issue?
- [09:23]
Amanda Littman
I think people's lived experience is the issue. And especially right now, you need to have candidates and leaders who can speak to the parts of the economy that directly affect people's lives. One of the things that politicians have tended to do over the years is talk about the jobs numbers, the stock market, as if they reflect the economy. But especially for young people, especially for young women, but really for anyone under the age of, say, 50, it's thinking about, can I ever afford to buy a home? Can I afford to send my kids to daycare or to aftercare at school? Can I afford to have kids at all? Well, if I want to have another one, can I afford the second Uber that it might require or the bigger car? All of these are the kinds of, as you said, pocketbook issues that if you are a little later in life, have a little bit more wealth established. They're not the same problems that you are experiencing. I think this is what he was able to do so well. And honestly, with the run for Something candidates that we've helped elect, of which there are more than 1500 across the country, have done so well, is they're able to talk about policies. Not as policies, but as problems that people are experiencing and ways we can solve them.
- [10:31]
Jean Chatzky
Let's talk about the origin of Run for Something. You were Hillary Clinton's email director in 2016, right after Trump was elected for the first time. You launched this organization. Why? And what was it about that moment that made you do something?
- [10:49]
Amanda Littman
You know, I started hearing from friends I'd gone to high school and college with, hey, Amanda, I'm a public school teacher in Chicago. I'm thinking about running for office because if Trump can be president, seems like anybody can do this. What do I do? And at the time, if you were young and you were newly excited about politics and you wanted to do more than vote and more than volunteer. There was nowhere you could go that would answer your call. There was no place, if you were a young person who wanted to actually lead, that would help you do it. So I decided to solve that problem myself. I reached out to a whole bunch of people, one of whom became my co founder, Ross Morales Ricketto. We wrote a plan and we built a website and we launched Run for Something on Trump's first Inauguration Day, thinking it would be really small. We'd get 100 people in the first year. This would be our, like side project for weekends. Instead, we had a thousand people sign up in the first week. We're now up to about 220,000 young people all across the country who've raised their hands to say they want to run and as I said, have helped elect more than 1500 in 49 states, plus D.C. mostly women, mostly people of color, all folks 40 years old and under.
- [11:50]
Jean Chatzky
It's really amazing. And the number of people in your pipeline is truly inspiring. I mean, Sarah, as you said, you spent a decade working for a state senator, State Senator Patty Richie, eventually, as her chief of staff in that role, you were one of the youngest chiefs of staff in the New York State Senate. That is impressive. Was it that experience that gave you the confidence to run? And do you think that people need some sort of background in government before they throw their hat into the ring.
- [12:25]
D
Again regarding whether or not people need governmental experience? It's definitely helpful. And there are a lot of great careers in government and that can act as a springboard to a candidacy and holding office. But I do think that it was those 10 plus years that I spent in her office that gave me that confidence. I mean, she herself was a trailblazer. She was the first woman to hold that seat in the 48 Senate district. And so basically every day, you know, anybody who's worked in government knows that it's kind of around the clock job, especially when you're chief of staff. So I had the opportunity to really learn from her and be mentored by her throughout those 10 plus years. And it's all of those different things that I was doing in her office that I'm now doing for myself, which is really rewarding, whether it's planning events, interacting with constituents, writing speeches. So it really helped me build those skills and then put them into practice for myself as an elected official.
- [13:23]
Jean Chatzky
Let's talk a little bit about how millennials and Gen Z lead differently once they get to Lead. I mean, you're doing it every day. Sarah, in your town. Amanda, you write in your book that young leaders have no patience for bs, that they demand authenticity, that they draw clearer boundaries. How's this shift in leadership changing not just politics, but workplaces everywhere. And Amanda, let's start with you.
- [13:52]
Amanda Littman
Oh, I think it's transformative. I think it creates space for team members to show up and to really get things done while also being real people outside of work. I think a lot about the ways in which we can what it might free up for you if your job did not make you feel emotionally, physically, mentally drained at the end of the day. Like what kind of partner, what kind of parent, what kind of friend, what kind of citizen could you be if you had time outside of work to be relaxed, refreshed and rejuvenated? And what kind of worker could you be if you were able to come in every day with real clarity about what mattered and what didn't, with real understanding of what expectations were and with the knowledge that what you were doing mattered and that it was going to serve the broader goal. Whether it's the bottom line of your company or your nonprofit vision, or just making sure that your co ed soccer team is the best run co ed soccer team in the adult league, all of this kind of leadership style can be so both comforting, clarifying and energizing and ultimately make it more effective.
- [14:57]
Jean Chatzky
Sarah, I mean you do two things simultaneously and you have a young daughter and I've sort of experienced this before. So when Sarah was working for me as my assistant, my now ex husband was the volunteer mayor of our small town in Westchester County, New York. Peter Chadsky is actually running for Congress in New York 17. So we heartily support his candidacy. At least I do. But as you try to toggle between being the mayor of Watertown, which is a part time job, working for her money, which I've got to say you do without missing a beat, and being a mom. How do you lead?
- [15:43]
D
Well, I think for me it's all about, I think two things, boundaries and priorities. The role of mayor, at least in Watertown, New York it's a part time position and we have a city manager form of government. So the city manager manages things on a day to day basis. And again the mayor is part time and one of the benefits of that is it's very flexible, which is conducive to having other things going on, namely a career, a job job and raising my daughter. But I think there are different things that I at least put into practice in my life to balance everything. As I said, boundaries. You know, my phone goes on do not disturb mode at 6pm because that's my time with my daughter. And I feel like the more you can focus on doing that one thing in the moment, the better you are at it, whether it's, you know, doing your work that you're responsible for or, you know, sitting on the floor and playing with your kids. So that's one of the things that I try to put into practice in my life, is boundaries. And then, of course, priorities again. My allegiance is to the city of Watertown, but at the end of the day, it doesn't necessarily pay the bills. So I do, you know, give it 110% and do my best, But I have to be mindful that I have a family at home that needs my attention and I have a job that requires my attention as well.
- [17:00]
Jean Chatzky
We are going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we're going to get into what it's really like to be the mayor of a small town because we know it's not all kissing babies and cutting ribbons. Although I hope there's at least a little bit of that. We'll be back in a sec.
- [17:16]
E
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- [17:43]
Sarah Pierce
The McDonald's Snack Wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack. Snack wrap is back.
- [17:56]
E
Ba ba ba ba ba.
- [17:59]
Jean Chatzky
And we are back with Amanda Littman and Sarah Pierce. Okay, Sarah, hot seat for you. You won your race with 70% of the vote. That in any book is a landslide. What do you think made your campaign resonates so strongly with the voters? And what advice do you have for other women who are thinking about running?
- [18:21]
D
Sure. So I think it was a unique matchup. When I ran for mayor, it was the first time that two women were running for office. So it was myself and one of my colleagues. So it kind of took that gender factor off the table. At the time, there were a handful of decisions that the council had made over the course of the two years leading up to the election. That were really hot button issues. And so I did my best to draw a distinction between the opposition and myself, and that resonated with voters. The other big thing that I think is important for anybody running for office that I made a priority was going door to door and actually meeting and talking with the people that I represent. Both before running for mayor, I was on the council for five years. So in my campaign for that seat as well, I made that a priority and talked to thousands of people just going door to door. And I think that people really respect that. So that would be a piece of advice I would give to anybody running for office, that it's really not enough to put social media posts out there and send postcards out. People really appreciate that, one on one contact. And I think for women running for office, I think one of the biggest pieces of advice, I would say is to make sure that you have the support of the right people, namely your family. Before I ran for office, I made sure, you know, was my husband on board with this? Because, you know, ultimately your family is going to feel the impact of you being an elected official and running for office. Whether they're, you know, feelings are hurt by the negative campaigning or you're not at home as much, you need to have that support from them. So I think that that's definitely one of the big ones for any woman running for office. Just make sure that you have the right support from your family and friends and whoever else might be on your team.
- [20:04]
Jean Chatzky
And what is it like actually doing the job?
- [20:08]
D
It's challenging at times, but I think one of the biggest advantages that I had going into this was knowing what I was getting into. I was on the council for five years before I took office as mayor again. I was working in the state Senate for 10 years, and that also included a lot of work on campaigns. So I definitely knew what I was getting into at times. It's, as I said, challenging. There can be very busy days where there's a big, you know, issue that's being debated in the community, where your email inbox is blowing up, you're running into people in the grocery store, and it takes, you know, an hour longer than expected because everybody wants to talk to you. So it ebbs and flows with busyness, I would say. But at the end of the day, it's just. It's very rewarding, Amanda, for people who.
- [20:53]
Jean Chatzky
Are listening and thinking, God, I'd really like to do this, but I don't know if I have time to take on the job of mayor. That sounds Big, what are some good places to start? And I'm also wondering if self selection for this kind of a role is enough. In other words, if you want to run for politics, is that enough to say you should run for politics?
- [21:21]
Amanda Littman
You know, it's the first step. Nobody is born a politician the same way nobody's born an artist or a musician. The way you become one is by doing the thing. You become a politician by putting your name on the ballot, running for office, doing as Sarah said, talking to voters, being on the ground, connecting with people and hopefully winning or losing and trying again. Another election, you know, we run for something works with people running for exclusively hyperlocal offices. So state house, state senate, city council, school board, library board, you know, municipal offices like mayor, those are the starting blocks for folks. If you're interested in running, you can go to runforwhat.net and you can look up what's on the ballot for you in 2026. It is definitely not too early to get started and it's almost certainly not too late in basically every place at this point in the year. You can absolutely do this. And here's the thing. If you don't self select into it someone else who might not care as much and might not be as compassionate, might not be as good a listener or as hard a worker, they might get into it and you're going to really wish that you had been there to fight back.
- [22:26]
Jean Chatzky
Well, when we're talking about these hyperlocal offices, Amanda, we're often talking about a whole lot of work because running for office is a lot of work for not a lot of pay. Do you think that that's one of the things that's holding a lot of women back?
- [22:43]
Amanda Littman
It's something we hear from a lot of the younger women especially who are thinking about running for office that you know, you can't afford to quit your job. It's a full time job. Outside of your full time job, it's barely paid. Most of the offices that we work with candidates running for are unpaid. They're full time or part time volunteer roles. Occasionally there'll be some kind of stipend. But even for offices like state legislature, most of them are not full time state legislature. So you have to be able to have a job outside of that. I think the New Hampshire state legislature pays people 400 bucks a year. Something along those lines. It's almost nothing. Almost nothing. All of that's to say is that one of the things we have to do as we win these offices is make structural changes to ensure we're not the last of our kind to be able to win these offices. Things like increasing the pay, childcare support, health care benefits. You know, in a lot of places we work with candidates who, if they have a kid, who, while they're serving in that office, there's no way for them to take leave, especially any paid leave. They can't do proxy voting. All of this makes it structurally really hard for young people to run. We have to do it anyway. But you should know going into that, these are challenges that will exist, not because you aren't up to the task, but because these are systems meant to keep you out and you've got to fight your way through them.
- [24:00]
Jean Chatzky
Let's talk a little bit more about being a mom and doing these jobs. I mean, I think a lot of women, as you said, wonder, can I balance it? But also, can I lead and raise a family without burning out? Sarah, you talked a little bit about the boundaries you set, but where have you struggled?
- [24:22]
D
I would say, I mean, there are days when they're long days, you know, you have to get up early to get things done, you know, your work done in the morning because you have something else going on, you know, in the afternoon. Another commitment that has to do with the other hat that I wear. But I would say, you know, sometimes it's a struggle with very busy days. But I do think that being a mom and being an elected official, sometimes this type of career can be conducive to motherhood. And I think that for a couple reasons, again, you have to have that support system in place. That's important. But in large part, when you're in these roles, you really control your own schedule for the most part. Sure, there are things that you have to do and you have to be at. For me, it's three Mondays a month. I have to be here in city council chambers for a 7pm meeting. But aside from that, my schedule is really under my control, which is super important, obviously, as a mom. The other part of it is there are so many things that elected officials do that they can involve their children and especially as my daughter gets older, she's almost three years old, but I'm finding it a lot easier to involve her in the work that I do as mayor, whether that's visiting a small business, taking her to a ribbon cutting, those sorts of things. So I'm always looking for opportunities where I can kind of do double duty, bring my daughter with me, spend quality time with her, but then also fulfill my duties as mayor. So I Think that those are a couple important points for any moms who might be considering running for office.
- [25:51]
Jean Chatzky
So it is cutting ribbons and kissing babies sometimes.
- [25:54]
D
Yeah.
- [25:56]
Jean Chatzky
Amanda, do you agree? I mean, I know you're not in office, but you are a mom, and you seen an awful lot of moms tackle this.
- [26:03]
Amanda Littman
I am. I have two kids under three, so I know exactly how deep in the weeds you can get. It is absolutely possible. I think, to Sarah's point, you need a really strong support system. You need a partner, hopefully, who can carry their weight. And if you're doing it alone, making sure that your village is there for you, that you have a network of people who can have your back. It's why one of the first things we tell candidates, when you're thinking about running, talk to your friends and family. Make sure they know what this is going to entail, that you know what sacrifices it might be. Especially to Sarah's point, the ways in which you can include your kids is so powerful, but also kind of all putting them in the public eye in a way I think a lot of women aren't always comfortable with. So be really intentional about what this might involve, not just for you, but for the people in your broader circle. And there are so many amazing moms who have ran and won who would be happy to talk with you about their experience and the things that they have done. And, you know, anyone who has kids knows that these. The underground mom network is strong, and it's got your back.
- [26:59]
Jean Chatzky
Last question, and let me throw it out to both of you. For women who want to make a difference in their communities but don't necessarily want to run for office, where do they start? And for young women who find themselves reluctantly stepping into leadership, how do you suggest that they own it and lift other women up as they climb? And, Amanda, we'll start with you on.
- [27:24]
Amanda Littman
The political side, I'd say get involved in a local campaign. The smaller the race, the deeper your impact can be. It's gonna be really tempting over the next year to think about congressional races or the like. Go local, school board, city council, state ledge. Get involved, get to know folks and build those relationships at work and outside of it. If you are reluctantly stepping into a leadership role or pushed into or hired into a leadership role, remember that you are holding that power because you deserve it. No mediocre dude ever questions whether they deserve the responsibility they have. They claim it and move forward accordingly. Embrace that confidence. You could do this.
- [28:03]
Jean Chatzky
Sarah, last word to you.
- [28:05]
D
Definitely. Like Amanda said, I think that there are a lot of great opportunities for women to get involved at the local level, whether that's school board, city council, or really even at the state and federal level. Offices and campaigns are always looking for volunteers, so I think that's important. And then also just checking with your local municipality to see what kind of opportunities they have to get involved all the time. At least here in the city of Watertown, we're looking for people to serve on different boards, commissions, and a lot of people don't even know that those opportunities exist. So that's a great way for women to make a difference and get their foot in the door.
- [28:39]
Jean Chatzky
Amanda, if we women listening are interested in running for something, where do they find you?
- [28:45]
Amanda Littman
You can go to runforwhat.net to look up what office is on the ballot near you and then you'll start getting invites to conference calls and getting all the resources you need.
- [28:53]
Jean Chatzky
Amazing. Amanda Litman, Mayor Sarah Pierce, thank you so much for being with us today. We appreciate it.
- [29:01]
D
Thank you.
- [29:02]
Amanda Littman
Thank you.
- [29:03]
Jean Chatzky
If you love today's episode, please take a moment to to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Your feedback means the world to me. And if you're ready to keep the Money conversation going, HerMoney has three amazing programs designed to help you feel more confident and in control of your money. There's Finance Fix. It's our four week coaching program that helps you rethink your spending, find hidden savings, and make smarter choices for the future. Our pre retirement program runs for six weeks and walks you through building a retirement strategy that's personalized for your next chapter. Finally, there's Investing Fix, our investing club for women. It meets every other week on Zoom. It is a supportive space to learn, ask questions, grow your investing confidence and build your portfolio. And your first month is absolutely free. These programs are truly helping level the playing field for women financially. I'd love for you to join us. Her Money is produced by Hayley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.