Ep 490: Protect What You’ve Built: Estate Planning Strategies Every Woman Should Know

Summary

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HerMoney with Jean Chatzky

Ep 490: Protect What You’ve Built: Estate Planning Strategies Every Woman Should Know
Date: August 27, 2025
Guest: Ann Margaret Carozza, Elder Law Attorney

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jean Chatzky discusses the essential topic of estate planning—how to protect the wealth you've worked for and ensure your wishes are honored. With guest Ann Margaret Carozza, a seasoned elder law attorney, the conversation delves into practical strategies to avoid common pitfalls, the types of trusts and directives every woman should consider, and how best to safeguard assets, homes, and loved ones. The episode is rich in real-life examples, myth-busting, and actionable tips, with a particular focus on the unique needs women face in estate planning.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Biggest Estate Planning Mistakes

(Starts at 04:50)

• Main Problem: Most people delay estate planning or make overly simplistic decisions, especially regarding their home.
• Top Mistake: Transferring your house directly to children during your lifetime to "keep it simple."
• Dangers of This:
  • Loss of property tax exemptions.
  • Children inherit your original cost basis, leading to higher capital gains taxes.
  • House becomes a reportable asset for children's financial aid.
  • Risk of losing house in case of child's divorce.
• Quote:

  "The single biggest mistake is taking the house. ... They simply turn it over to their children and right off the bat rotten things will happen." – Ann Margaret Carozza (05:03)

2. What Should You Do Instead? Core Estate Planning Tools

(Starts at 07:40)

• Advance Directives:
  • Health Care Proxy: Names someone to make medical decisions if you're incapacitated.
  • Financial Power of Attorney: Names someone to handle financial matters if you can't.
  • Wills: Essential for itemizing who gets what and, importantly, how they get it, considering different money management skills among heirs.
• Customization:
  • Example: Slow, scheduled distribution for financially irresponsible children.
• Importance of Avoiding Probate:
  • Trusts often needed, especially for homeowners, to sidestep state-specific lengthy and costly processes.
• Quote:

  "It's better to have something than nothing—and we can amend it as life goes on." – Ann Margaret Carozza (05:06)
  "If I know in my heart that my 48 year old son has not saved $5 toward his retirement, should I leave him his share of the estate outright? Probably not." (09:48)

3. Is Probate Always a Big Deal? (Debate Perspective)

(Starts at 11:02)

• Jean's View: Probate isn’t always a nightmare unless you own property in multiple states.
• Ann Margaret’s View: Even if probate isn't a big deal in some states, trusts provide protection from more than just probate—like lawsuit insulation and asset protection if long-term care is required.
• Quote:

  "To the extent that I...can get my hot little hands on the assets whenever I want, so can my creditors." – Ann Margaret Carozza (24:07)

4. Protecting Assets from Long-Term Care Costs

(Starts at 12:28)

• Medicaid Planning:
  • Not all asset protection trusts are intended solely for Medicaid eligibility.
  • Trusts can reduce estate taxes, manage assets for second marriages, and protect family from catastrophic long-term care costs ($16,000+/month regionally).
• Medicaid Misconceptions:
  • Attorneys are not primarily about "hiding assets"; it's about protecting against draining all resources for care.
  • Increasing difficulty in accessing Medicaid—look-back periods have extended from 3 to 5 years and may grow.
• Long-term Insurance: Ann emphasizes not relying on Medicaid; if possible, get long-term care insurance.
• Quote:

  "You need long term care insurance." – Ann Margaret Carozza (19:13)

5. Types of Trusts 101

(Starts at 22:06)

• Revocable (Living) Trust:
  • Owner can change or revoke during lifetime.
  • Mainly helps avoid probate; little asset protection if sued.
  • Not necessary for non-homeowners—beneficiary designation on financial accounts may suffice.
• Irrevocable Trust:
  • Owner gives up control—potential for asset protection and tax benefits.
  • Ann warns: “a totally irrevocable trust is as rotten as it sounds” due to loss of control.
• Hybrid Trusts:
  • Many draft trusts with qualities between revocable and irrevocable (for special needs, phased distributions, etc.).
  • Customization to suit family dynamics, beneficiary vulnerabilities (disabilities, credit issues, risk of divorce).
• Protecting Minor Beneficiaries:
  • Never leave assets directly; courts will intervene and assign a guardian, costing fees and time.
  • Use a trust with staggered distributions (e.g., at 25, 30, 35 years old).
• Quote:

  "All things being equal, if we have liability concerns...we want to think about having a little bit of a stronger trust." – Ann Margaret Carozza (24:00)
  "Anything that's in between the two extremes would be a hybrid." (28:10)
  "For my own children, I say they get their assets in three staggered increments...I don't want them watching Shark Tank, thinking they're a financial genius and losing it all in one fell swoop." (31:54)

6. Best Practices: When and How Often to Update Your Plan

(Starts at 32:19)

• Start Now: Imperfect action beats waiting for perfection.
• Revisit Regularly: Update as life changes (kids grow, marriages, divorces, major purchases, deaths).
• DIY vs. Attorney:
  • Advance directives (health care proxy, living will) can often be completed without a lawyer—templates available at mylawyerann.com.
  • Trusts should be attorney-drafted to avoid mishaps.
• Single People:
  • Advance directives are even more important if you’re single; don’t assume family will be able/interested in making decisions.
• Quote:

  "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. ... This is our last act as a parent." – Ann Margaret Carozza (32:41)
  "I have an 80% chance of surviving my husband. I have a 100% chance that my kids will be too busy to really take care of me...it is on me to put together an infrastructure right now for the future care and feeding of myself." (35:05)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• The Biggest Mistake:

  "The single biggest mistake is taking the house. They simply turn it over to their children and right off the bat rotten things will happen." – Ann Margaret Carozza (05:03)

• Advance Directives for All:

  "Every adult needs to name someone to make decisions for them financially and about their health care." – Gina (34:34)

• DIY Where You Can:

  "You do not need an attorney to do a health care proxy....I have them on my website. You can download it, make it your own." – Ann Margaret Carozza (08:13)

• Why Trusts are So Custom:

  "We have three children. One is a neurosurgeon, one is a social worker. One is a train wreck. How do we sort out all these things?" – Ann Margaret Carozza (28:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:50 – Biggest estate planning mistakes: transferring house to children, legal/financial consequences
• 07:40 – Smart steps: wills, advance directives, and when to use trusts
• 11:02 – Debating the real impact of probate and trusts by state
• 12:28 – Asset protection against long-term care and Medicaid planning nuances
• 19:13 – Medicaid’s future and the case for long-term care insurance
• 22:06 – Types of trusts explained: revocable, irrevocable, hybrid, and which fit which needs
• 29:57 – Protecting minors and structuring distributions through trusts
• 32:19 – Best practices for updating and maintaining your estate plan
• 34:34 – Estate planning is just as vital for singles

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Resources

• Ann Margaret Carozza’s Website: mylawyerann.com (health care proxy and living will templates)
• General Advice: Start with DIY for healthcare proxies/living wills, consult an attorney for trusts

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Final Takeaways

Estate planning isn't just for the wealthy or the elderly—it's a practical act of care, protection, and intention at any stage of life or wealth. The conversation demystifies trusts, probate, and advance directives, urging every listener to act before it's too late and to revisit plans as life evolves. Ann Margaret Carozza’s actionable insights, combined with Jean’s approachable questioning, make this a must-listen for anyone serious about safeguarding their legacy.

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Transcript

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

You know, the single biggest mistake is taking the house. They don't want to think about doing a trust. The topic gives them a headache. They don't think they have enough money to consider a trust. So what do they do? They quote, unquote, simply turn it over to their children and right off the bat, rotten things will happen.

[Jean Chatzky]

Hey, everybody.

[Gina]

Welcome to Her Money.

[Jean Chatzky]

I'm Jean Chatzky.

[Gina]

Thank you so much for being here. Today we are going to dive into a topic that too often gets put off until it's just too late. How to protect the wealth that you.

[Jean Chatzky]

Have worked so hard to build, not just for yourself, but for the people that you love.

[Gina]

According to Investopedia, the average inheritance in.

[Eugene]

The United states Gates is $46,000.

[Hailey]

That's meaningful money.

[Eugene]

It's money you've earned, saved, invested, and making sure that it's used wisely even after you're no longer around to shepherd it. That's part of building a lasting legacy.

[Hailey]

We talk about estate planning on this.

[Eugene]

Show and often we delve into wills and living wills and durable powers of attorney. But it's more than that. It's about avoiding costly mistakes that can undo years or decades of smart financial decisions. It means putting the right documents in place to ensure that your financial future is legally secure, that your wishes are honored, and that the people who count on you are protected. That's why I am thrilled to welcome.

[Hailey]

Ann Margaret Caroza to the show.

[Eugene]

She is a powerhouse elder law attorney who has spent decades helping families make smart legal choices. You can catch her every Sunday morning on W, the New York radio station where she hosts the laws of your money radio show. From the ins and outs of trusts to the dangers of conservatorships to protecting your home without giving up control, she is here to share the playbook that we all need.

[Hailey]

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[Gina]

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[Hailey]

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[Jean Chatzky]

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[Jean Chatzky]

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[Gina]

I am back with elder law attorney Ann Margaret Carozza.

[Eugene]

Welcome. So nice to see you.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Thanks for having me, Gina. I'm a huge fan, so I'm thrilled to be with you today.

[Jean Chatzky]

Well, right back at you.

[Gina]

As an elder law attorney, what are the biggest mistakes that you see people making when it comes to estate planning? Is it just putting it off until it's too late or is there something else in the mix?

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

I think there are a few things it is. You know, I say to people, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Right? It's better to have something than and we can amend it and change it as life goes on. You know, the single biggest mistake is taking the house. Now, an eye popping percentage of Americans over 65 years old own their own homes and there is a practice out there of trying to keep things simple. They don't want to think about doing a trust. The topic gives them a headache. They don't think they have enough money to consider a trust. So what do they do? They quote, unquote, simply turn it over to their children and right off the bat rotten things will happen. I will lose my property tax exemptions. The original purchase price in 1978 becomes my children's cost basis to measure capital gains.

[Gina]

I just want to stop you here because you're talking about when you say taking the house. What you're talking about is trying to pass your house along to your kids while you're still alive rather than at death.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Yes. So many people aware of the horrors and length of probate in their state of residence. We should all have a will. But the goal is not to have to rely on it because the will would go to probate. So a lot of folks with their home transfer it during their lives to their children, A, to avoid probate and B, to protect it from the specter of long term care claims. But a simple deed transfer to the children who will result in them having to pay a lot of capital gains when they sell it. When my grandchildren apply for college financial aid, that house is now an asset that must be listed on the financial aid application. Not to mention the 43% chance of my son who now owns the home being in a divorce. And now my soon to be ex daughter in law would have an interest in it. So I tell people, don't do a simple transfer of the deed to your home to your children.

[Gina]

Let's talk about what people should do.

[Eugene]

And I'd like to take it in order of complication.

[Gina]

For many people out there, a simple estate plan is going to be sufficient. Let's talk about what a simple estate plan looks like these days and who that works for.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

So at its foundation, Estate planning allows me to create documents called advance directives so that I can appoint folks who can ensure that my wishes are carried out later on if I am unable to do so. We want to have a health care proxy in place. You do not need an attorney to do a health care proxy. I was a New York state legislator involved with our state's health care proxy law. It is designed to be a DIY document, so I have them on my website. You can download it, make it your own. Appoint another person who the hospital can call to make decisions if I am unable to speak up for myself. We also want to consider a financial power of attorney so that if I am temporarily or permanently incapacitated, I can select the person who can make financial decisions for me. And it's very interesting. We all watched the Britney Spears conservatorship a couple of years ago. And in the initial conservatorship hearing, the first question the judge asked is, did Ms. Spears create advance directives? And she did not, even though she was in her mid-20s at the time and should have. This set the stage for a judge to appoint someone to make these decisions. And it may or may not be the person you would want to make these decisions. So we want to have the advance directives in place and we want to have a will which lays out not only who gets what I have, but how they get it. If I have three children, there's a 100% chance that they have different money management capabilities. So if I know in my heart that my 48 year old son has not saved $5 toward his retirement, should I leave him his share of the estate outright? Probably not. I may want to consider customizing how he receives his interest, maybe 5% a year over 20 years. So we want to customize how they get it and we also want to avoid probate. For the approximate 80% of U.S. homeowners, they need to do a trust to avoid a lengthy probate, which in New York can be about eight months.

[Gina]

Okay, I'm going to push back on that. I've talked to a lot of estate planning attorneys over my career throughout the country and I get a mixed bag of answers on this. And often I've been told probate's not such a big deal. It's a big deal in some states. It's not a big deal in every state. It's a big deal if you own property in multiple states because then it's a couple of different probates. But for most people, this, this idea that you have to take the step of getting a living trust in order to avoid probate is an expense that you don't really need to stomach.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Well, it is not an expense that you need to stomach if you are lucky enough not to need long term care beyond the 100 days that Medicare and the supplement cover after I leave a hospital with a three day stay. So we want to think about protecting the real estate not only from probate but also from long term care claims. Ordinary trip and fall. We're living in a very litigious society and if the mail carrier takes a header off my front steps, it's really nice if that home is owned in an asset protection trust to give me some insulation against liabilities.

[Gina]

When you start talking about protecting assets from long term care costs, we're going down a road that we have not talked about on this show, I think ever in seven years. And you're heading into a field that is called Medicaid planning, that the idea is that by not owning your assets yourself, you can preserve the value of those assets for the generations to come or for your spouse. Because in order to qualify for Medicaid, in order to have the government Pick up the cost of your long term care. You're only allowed to own a very, very small amount of assets outright.

[Hailey]

It's an area that's a little fraught.

[Gina]

I know that a lot of people have varying opinions on Medicaid planning and whether it's trying to hedge the system in some way. I know the rules allow it, but can you sort of explain why there are these dueling perspectives on this field?

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

I think it's a little bit of a myth that all asset protection trust planning has Medicaid eligibility as the end goal. Let's take someone who has a life insurance policy, and we know that life insurance is tax free. It is not estate tax free, however. Right. So we want to have the ownership of this life insurance policy in a specialized trust so that my children don't have to pay 40% estate tax on the death benefit of that life insurance policy. So there are a lot of very good reasons to have a trust. Let's say I'm in a second marriage and I own the home and my new younger spouse is telling me, okay, Ann, leave me the home and, you know, I'll take care of your kids later. Well, I would be a fool if I did that because, you know, then the asset is in the hands of a stranger. So I would be very well advised to do a trust in that situation and say that Fabio, if he survives me, and if we're still married at the time of my death, he has a right to. To continue to occupy the property. I don't want to give him a life estate because he could move to Florida and rent the property out and he'd be collecting the rent. So we need some nuanced trust planning here. And I would draft a right of occupancy for Fabio that says he can stay there until the earlier of his voluntary departure. His death, his permanent stay in a nursing facility, his remarriage on the condition that he pay all of the expenses, that he allow my adult children access to obtain their family photographs, et cetera. So, you know, all of this trust planning is built from disasters that I see families have.

[Gina]

And I, by the way, am in a second marriage and to have a life insurance policy that I put in trust for exactly those reasons. My husband and I have trust for exactly the reasons that you described. I hope if I were to die, that he would not marry Fabio, but you never know. But specifically on the issue of Medicaid.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Yeah. So Medicaid there is currently a five year federal look back period. And it is a sad Reality that in the United States, Medicaid bears the cost of approximately 40% of all nursing home stays. Where I live, the average regional cost monthly of a good nursing home is $16,000 a month. So if I don't do any planning and I am privately paying for the vast majority of folks, the private pay capability will only last so long. And then we are on the Medicaid program. So the question is, where do we draw the line? I have folks come into my office, I've had celebrities come into my office looking for Medicaid for a spouse. I don't take those cases. Right. If someone has a reasonable amount of savings and they're looking to gird themselves against blowing through everything, hemorrhaging through their life savings, I will help that family to protect some portion of it. But I think, you know, the whole notion of elder law attorneys helping people creatively hide assets to get onto this program is not quite the reality. It's more nuanced than that. Medicaid at the present time is the payer of last resort. I think the writing is on the wall. It's going to be harder and harder to access this Medicaid program. Prior to 2006, the so called look back period was three years, it's now five years. There's a bill in Congress that would make it seven years. And as part of the big beautiful tax act that is now law, Medicaid work requirements that will apply to folks 19 through 64 years of age. That cannot help but impact senior citizens because the work requirement verification process has been pushed onto the states. So New York State, where I practice, has to quickly scramble and find untold millions of dollars in the New York State budget to enable the work requirement verification to be carried out. That cannot help but pull dollars from senior long term care. So I tell everyone, baby boomers amongst us do not rely on Medicaid. You need long term care insurance.

[Gina]

Yeah, if you can afford it, absolutely. I want to get into the different kinds of trusts. We've been talking about a lot of them and we haven't really define them or what they do. But before we do that, we're going to take a quick break.

[Hailey]

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[Eugene]

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[Hailey]

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[Gina]

I am back with elder law attorney Ann Margaret Caroza.

[Eugene]

We are talking about estate planning and actually we're getting pretty detailed in a way that we often don't on this show.

[Gina]

So I want to back up a.

[Eugene]

Little bit and let's just talk about the different kinds of trusts and who might need them. They're irrevocable. Irrevocable, testamentary living. I know that some of them are the same thing, but it's a lot. Can you talk us through the main types and what makes sense for middle income families?

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

So we've all heard of a living revocable trust, right?

[Gina]

I don't know that we all have heard of that.

[Hailey]

So let's define it.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

It's very Appealing psychologically, we create this document that allows us to retitle assets into it. So think of it like a little personal company. So this living revocable trust, it would be called in my case, the Ann Margaret Carrosa Living Trust. I can transfer property into it and it will go automatically to my heirs at the date of my death. I think the misconception is that this document does anything above and beyond avoiding probate. And for someone who does not own a home, I would tell you you don't need to do a living revocable trust because you can now avoid probate on every asset class by naming beneficiaries. So if you're listening to this and you don't own a home or a condo or a co op apartment, then just make sure that you have beneficiaries listed on all of your financial instruments.

[Gina]

And when you say revocable trust, and I just, I want to get the details, revocable means that you, the owner of that trust, can change it during your lifetime. Correct. I mean, the difference between revocable and irrevocable, I think is something important to understand.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Absolutely. So a revocable or revocable trust, I am the grantor. I'm setting it up. I can also be called the settler, I can be called the trustor. It all means the same thing. I will also be my trustee. So during my life, no one has any power to do anything with the assets in that trust other than me. I can get my hot little hands on those trust assets whenever I wish. Upon my death, the asset will go to whoever I've named as the beneficiaries on that living revocable trust. So again, it's super appealing psychologically. A lot of us get these cards in the mail, these invitations to go to these seminars for the Living Revocable Trust seminar. My mother goes to them to try and meet eligible men and get free snacks. But I think a revocable trust has its place. But think about it. To the extent that I, acting alone, can get my hot little hands on the assets whenever I want, so can my creditors. So it doesn't do anything if I have a vacation home on, let's say the Jersey Shore, and I own it in my name individually, and I'm in my home state of New York most of the time, I have no liability protection if someone breaks into the home while I'm not there and they hurt themselves. And yes, many of us have umbrella liability insurance policies which are relatively affordable. And the reason they're relatively affordable is there Are many limitations when you try to make a claim. All things being equal, if we have liability concerns, whether that is estate taxes, long term care, general trip and fall liability, we want to think about having a little bit of a stronger trust now. It does not have to be ever a totally irrevocable trust. A totally irrevocable trust is as rotten as it sounds. I would appoint Eugene to be my trustee, and I will have retained zero power to veto your decision making. I have no power to change my originally named beneficiaries. So it's an absolute disaster. And I don't know why anyone would ever do a totally irrevocable trust. So between those two polar extremes, revocable and irrevocable, there are dozens of different types of trusts. If one of my beneficiaries has a developmental disability, a psychiatric diagnosis, a substance abuse issue, if my son is on his fifth marriage, you know, whatever the specific craziness that we happen to have within our families, we want to kind of create boundaries so they're not at each other's throats later on upon my death.

[Gina]

And what is that middle ground trust called? Is there a general category that we could refer to when we go see.

[Hailey]

Our estate planning attorneys?

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

So I would describe any trust in between revocable and totally irrevocable. I would describe it as a hybrid. You know, that is not a term of art. What we call the trust is absolutely irrelevant. So during my misspelling spent youth in the New York state legislature, I chaired the trust committee and was involved in crafting trust law in New York state. And there are many strands that we weave together in the drafting of this trust document until we get it just right. We have three children. One is a neurosurgeon, One is a social worker. One is a train wreck. You know, how do we sort out all of these things? So anything that's in between the two extremes would be a hybrid. A special needs trust is in that hybrid variety where I leave assets to a trust for the benefit of a developmentally disabled loved one. So we're not disrupting their eligibility for future program benefits, but we want them to have extras in life. So that would be a trust that I do for them. We also want to think about when we have minor beneficiaries. We don't want to name a minor in their own name as a beneficiary on a financial asset or as a direct beneficiary within a will or within a trust.

[Gina]

Why?

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Well, this goes back to the 1930s. There was a Child actor named Jackie Coogan, who reportedly was the most famous person in the United States at one point. And when he reached 18 and was looking for what would have been millions of dollars of assets from all of his movies, he learned that his parents had squandered every cent that he earned. So every state in the United States has so called Jackie Coogan laws, which say even if this youngster's parents are alive and on the scene, a court has the ability to involve themselves to make sure that the money that was left to this child is properly safeguarded. And the judge in New York will appoint someone called a guardian ad litem to safeguard the interests of a minor who I have left assets to directly. And as you can imagine, these gigs are not voluntary. They earn a healthy commission and it comes out of the child's money. So if you have little loved ones in your lives, you want to set up a trust for their benefit, you don't have to put anything in that trust now, but it will have its own tax ID number, and it can be a recognized beneficiary of a financial instrument or my will or my trust. And I can specify how they should receive that asset. For my own children, I say they get their assets in three staggered increments. One third at 25, half of what's left at 30, and the full distribution at 35. I don't want them watching Shark Tank, thinking they're a financial genius and losing it all in one fell swoop. So I have my sister appointed as their trustee to make sure they have what they need, but they get three bites at the apple.

[Gina]

Love that advice. It's something that we took with our own children.

[Eugene]

Last question for you.

[Gina]

For people who are listening, who feel like either they haven't done an estate plan or. Or it's been a lot of years since they looked at their estate plan. What are the best practices for when you need one and how often you should be revising it?

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Well, I think I would start with the theory. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Don't ignore it. Don't put it off indefinitely. This is our last act of as a parent, right? How we leave assets to the next generation. And the words last will and testament comes from the Greek, and it means my last words and my last wishes. And we want to be a little bit more creative than saying Mary, Susie, and Johnny. You split it equally. Good luck, Mom. Right. We want to be a little bit more nuanced and think about not who should get the assets but how they should get it. And I want people to know they do not need to pay an attorney for all of this stuff. Yes. Should a trust be drafted by an attorney? Absolutely. I've seen a lot of DIY disasters with trusts. However, the other advance directives. My living will. You don't need an attorney to do a living will. I have my actual living will on my website if you want to know about all of my crazy wishes for my later years, it's there, it's in word format. You can download it, you can make it your own. And certainly the health care proxy, you can do it on your own. And I think once you take some action and inform yourselves, you're going to feel a little bit more power. And when we get rid of some of these things on our mental to do list, we're a little bit freed up and I think we feel happier.

[Gina]

Absolutely. You talked about parents, but I do just want to emphasize having these documents are just as important. Important if you are a single individual. If you're not a parent, every adult needs to name someone to make decisions for them financially and about their health care.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

100%. And I think it's more important for single people. And I have an article on my website, Estate Planning and the Single Girl. I want to make sure even though I'm married and have kids, I have an 80% chance of surviving my husband. I have a 100% chance that my kids will be too busy to really take care of me in a meaningful way. So it is on me to put together an infrastructure right now for the future care and feeding of myself. And those are advance directives.

[Gina]

Ann Margaret Carozo, tell us where your website is so that our listeners can find it.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

My lawyerann.com and it's Ann without an.

[Gina]

E. Just so it's clear for everybody. Thank you so much for being here and thank you for the education.

[Ann Margaret Carozza]

Thanks for having me, Jean.

[Jean Chatzky]

If you love today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Your feedback means the world to me. And if you're ready to keep the money conversation going, Her Money has three amazing programs designed to help you feel more confident and in control of your money. There's Finance Fix. It's our four week coaching program that helps you rethink your spending, find hidden savings and make smarter choices for the future. Our pre retirement program runs for six weeks and walks you through building a retirement strategy that's personalized for your next chapter. Finally, there's Investing Fix, our investing club for Women. It meets every other week on Zoom. It is a supportive space to learn, ask questions, grow your investing confidence, and build your portfolio. And your first month is absolutely free. These programs are truly helping level the playing field for women financially. I'd love for you to join us. Her money is produced by Hayley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk soon.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar. I host a podcast called A Slight Change of Plans that combines behavioral science and storytelling to help us navigate the big changes in our lives.

[Podcast Listener]

I get so choked up because I feel like your show and the conversations are what the world needs. Encouraging, empowering, counter programming that acts like a lighthouse when the world feels dark.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Listen to A Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts.