Episode Overview

Podcast: HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
Episode: EP 494: Why Women Are Still Doing Too Much — And How To Push Back
Host: Jean Chatzky
Guest: Dr. Corinne Lowe, economist, Wharton professor, and author of Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women's Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours
Date: September 24, 2025

Jean Chatzky sits down with Dr. Corinne Lowe to dissect why, despite social progress and increasing awareness, women still shoulder most of the invisible and visible burdens—at home, at work, and as caretakers. Blending data-driven insights, personal experience, and economic frameworks, the episode unpacks both the “why” of these persistent inequalities and actionable strategies for pushing back. This is not your typical “work-life balance” chat; instead, Corinne and Jean dive into how women can rethink priorities, set boundaries, and optimize their lives for genuine fulfillment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Persistent Myth of "Having It All"

• Jean introduces the episode by asking listeners if they're feeling depleted from trying to do everything: “The pressure to have it all, yeah, it is still alive and well in 2025. But and I want to be really clear on this, it is impossible to find perfection with all of the above.” (01:28)
• Corinne shares her own "midlife crisis" story: the arrival of her son and the unraveling of a carefully constructed life. Commuting, career, and caregiving all collided:

  “And then I had my son, and suddenly it didn’t anymore...this does not feel like having it all. This feels impossible. And it feels like the fun part of my life, the part...where I got to be a person...that part is over.” (06:00)

2. Gender Inequity at Home and at Work

• Adding a child to the mix sharply highlighted previously overlooked imbalances in share of responsibility:

  “Having a child is not a gender neutral event. I’m the one who’s pregnant and throwing up...recovering from giving birth… breastfeeding...riddled with guilt about returning back to work.” (07:23)
  She coins the phrase: “Winning the bread and baking it too,” referring to women who become both primary or sole breadwinners and manage the majority of home and childcare labor. (07:50)

3. Reframing Women’s Decisions as Economic Agency

• Corinne pushes for women to be recognized as full economic agents—a term economics often neglects in the context of marriage, fertility, and caretaking decisions:

  “My goal in life is to maximize my utility. Again, deep joy, meaning, value over the course of my life. And my job is just a tool for me to do that.” (09:48, repeated at 01:13)

• She warns against maximizing career for its own sake, instead encouraging women to “optimize” across all areas of their life.

4. The "Squeeze" — Why Logistics Will Rarely Line Up

• Corinne details the challenge of aligning reproductive timing, career advancement, and family needs, noting the unavoidable “squeeze” period:

  “So there’s ways to relieve some of those constraints…But my advice is not that to, like, wait until everything feels like it adds up. Because part of the data in the book is saying it fundamentally doesn’t.” (13:06)

5. Personal Stories: Making Big Life Changes for Balance

• Jean recounts opting for writing instead of editing to maintain flexibility as a new mother:

  “It was the way that I could see myself clear to getting to the other side of these toddler years.” (16:24)

• Corinne shares her radical shifts—divorce, moving cities, coming out, building a support network with her wife and an au pair—to create a feasible, fulfilling life:

  “For me...what needed to change was my home setup…I realized that I was such a better mom, that it made up for whatever other changes there were.” (17:31, 25:58)

6. How To Pinpoint Your Utility Function & Real Needs

• Corinne encourages a “blank slate” thought experiment:

  “What would I want my life to look like if I didn’t need to make money?...Very few people say, ‘I would make sure every night to finish those PowerPoint reports for my boss.’” (21:34)

• She stresses distinguishing true constraints (e.g., need to earn an income) from mere preferences masked as obligations.

7. Adapting Over the Life Cycle

• The conversation moves to women in midlife and later, coping with empty-nesting, caring for aging parents, and financial pressures:

  “It can take a moment to get back in touch with...what do I actually want my life to look like? Oh, I am the protagonist of this story, actually, and I get to write it.” (27:00)

• Corinne calls for systemic change to create on-ramps back into the workforce for women delayed or derailed by family obligations.

8. The "Time to Money Conversion" and Paying Yourself First

• Corinne introduces the concept of maximizing your job’s “time to money” ratio and, more importantly, paying yourself first—in time as well as money:

  “Find the uses of your time that give you the most utility...block them out on your calendar the way that you would a meeting with your boss.” (30:06)

9. Outsourcing and Saying 'No' to the Nonessential

• On evaluating what tasks to keep:

  “Should I hire myself for this job?” (32:32) “There’s some stuff like those metaphorical house plants…that you may need to set some boundaries with yourself on…” (33:44)

• Jean’s “store-bought guacamole” metaphor underscores the importance of letting go of perfectionism.

10. Sustaining Connection and Purpose—But with Boundaries

• Corinne discusses finding balance between helping others and not burning out:

  “It doesn't need to be me doing everything, and I need to have some boundaries around it and I need more people doing it with me. And that's also going to make it more sustainable.” (35:49)

• She encourages integrating acts of support into your life because they align with genuine values—not as another obligatory add-on.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On perfectionism and the myth of “having it all”:
  “It is impossible to find perfection with all of the above. It is impossible to find perfection with one of the above.” (01:44, Jean Chatzky)

• On the hidden costs of “winning the bread and baking it too”:
  “You're not only...carrying...the majority of the load at home. But then if you are also...breadwinning and all the mental load that comes with that, it was all too much.” (07:50, Corinne Lowe)

• On the inevitable “squeeze” period:
  “I refer in the book to this period called the squeeze, which is, you know, when housework and childcare tends to peak at the same time as you're making career investments...I just have to be honest...that is to some extent unavoidable.” (14:28, Corinne Lowe)

• On paying yourself first with time:
  “Find the uses of your time that you value the most and literally block them out on your calendar the way that you would a meeting with your boss...Put that on your calendar first and let other things fill in around that.” (30:06, Corinne Lowe)

• On letting go of non-essential tasks:
  “There's some stuff like those metaphorical house plants...that you may need to set some boundaries with yourself on because it is impossible for you to have a career that's going to be equal to your male colleagues and then to have a home life that looks like what you see on Instagram.” (33:44, Corinne Lowe)

• On sustainable giving:
  “I don't want to give the message to women that they need to endlessly care for everybody around them at the expense of themselves...when we find a way to live our life in a way that does lift other people up, it is what's going to...we're going to look back on...” (35:49, Corinne Lowe)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Pressure to "have it all" & guest introduction: 01:28–05:24
• Corinne’s personal story: from “having it all” to breakdown: 06:00–08:57
• Women as economic agents / redefining success: 09:48–13:06
• The “Squeeze” period / reproductive capital constraints: 13:06–16:24
• Jean and Corinne’s personal career/home tradeoffs: 16:24–19:25
• Identifying your “utility function” with practical exercises: 21:34–26:17
• Midlife/older women: adjusting, re-optimizing, asking siblings for help: 27:00–30:06
• Time-to-money conversion & paying yourself first: 30:06–32:08
• Outsourcing, hard choices, “throwing out your houseplants” metaphor: 32:32–34:55
• Sustainable giving/back, boundaries, and summing up: 35:49–38:20

Actionable Takeaways

• Rethink your goals by identifying what truly brings you joy and fulfillment—not what others expect.
• View your job as a tool, not an end; optimize how you spend time and money according to your utility function.
• Separate real-life constraints from “shoulds” and preferences; do not mistake the latter for inviolate rules.
• In times of high pressure, actively block out time for self-care and high-utility pursuits first, letting less important things fill in.
• Evaluate which tasks you must do yourself, can be shared, or can be outsourced—guilt-free.
• Revisit and update your priorities through different life phases.
• Advocate for yourself and ask for support, especially from family members, rather than silently carrying the load.

This episode provides both permission and practical frameworks for women to push back against the impossible expectations still foisted upon them—and to design a life that genuinely works.