← HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
HerMoney with Jean Chatzky
EP 497: All the Cool Girls Get Fired: Reinventing Your Career After 40
00:38:08
You’re not alone. You’re not too old. You’re not out of options.
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- [00:00]
A
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B
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Business. We could all use More Time Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing the admin. I can see why they call it smart. Learn more@amazonbusiness.com but one thing that it does give you is that beat. That one beat which we all have to think about, was that really making me happy? Did that make me feel less happy? Maybe I want to be happy more. Maybe I want to be creative more. And maybe the thing that is your dream when you're a kid, maybe you can't necessarily jump to do that because you've got all these responsibilities, but maybe you can allow your mind to follow that a little bit more and be like, okay, what makes me distinctive?
- [01:52]
A
Hey everyone, welcome to Her Money. I'm Jean Chatsky. If you've been listening to this show for a long time, you know we love a good transformation story. And today we've got. Actually, we've got two. You may know Laura Brown as the former editor in Chief of InStyle or Christina O' Neill from her years as editor in chief at WSJ magazine. But what you may not know is that they both, at some point, some point in their careers, got fired. Thankfully, they're not afraid to talk about it. In fact, they love talking about it so much they wrote an entire book on the subject. It's called all the Cool Girls Get Fired. And it's all about reclaiming your power after that happens, especially if you've been laid off in your 40s or your 50s. And you're wondering what now, in today's episode, we are talking about exactly that. What it means to start over after 40, how ageism shows up in industries like media and fashion, and most importantly, the strategies women are using to push back and build something even better. We're going to take a very quick break. You know what's scarier than a burnt apple crisp? The fact that the average adult unknowingly consumes over 150,000 plastic particles a year, mostly from cookware. I wish I was kidding, but I am not. This fall, I've been baking a lot. It's apple season after all, and my Caraway set hasn't left my stovetop. It's beautiful, non toxic, and honestly has saved me from more than a few hosting fails. Caraway's cookware set is a favorite for a reason. It can save you up to 100 $190 versus buying the items individually. Plus, if you visit carawayhome.comhermoney you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusively for our listeners, so visit carawayhome.com hermoney or use code hermoney at checkout. Caraway Non Toxic Cookware Made Modern if you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages. No hidden fees. No bs. My producer Hayley actually gave Mint Mobile a try this fall and she was surprised by how easy it was. She said the coverage was great, the speed held up, and she loved not getting any surprise fees. So if you've been thinking about trimming your budget or ditching your overpriced provider, Mint might be the easiest switch you never knew you needed. Ready to say yes to saying no? Make the switch@mintmobile.com hermoney that's mintmobile.com hermoney upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on the unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Laura Christina, welcome. I'm excited.
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C
Thanks for having us.
- [05:12]
B
Jean the Great Chatsky Chatting with Chatsky.
- [05:15]
A
All right, I devoured this book. I laughed, I underlined. I had some serious flashbacks because the year I turned 40 was the year I got divorced. I lost my dad. I turned 40 and I got fired. And I didn't have cool friends who were getting fired at the same time to hold me up. I think this book is just, well, for me it's a decade too late. But I'm glad that it's out there in the world for a lot of people. You immediately challenged the notion that people get laid off because they are bad at their Jobs, you guys, right? The thing is, these days, you probably didn't get fired because you suck at your job. You likely got fired because your industry is changing. Morphing and mutating like one of those AI videos where people have weird hands. So talk to me about the moment when you got fired and whether you saw the writing on the wall beforehand. Laura, we'll start with you.
- [06:22]
B
If I'd been paying more attention, I would have seen the writing on the wall. I was, you know, I was running InStyle as editor chief of InStyle magazine from 2016 to 2022, during which time we were owned by three different companies. It was Time Inc. When I started Meredith, and then it became dot Dash not only the three different companies, Covid first Trump administration, all the racial unrest. It was, you know, those years were tough. And running a magazine through. Through all of those sort of headwinds, you know, doing that from home, doing all that sort of stuff. So I think that for. There'd been a lot of challenges anyway. You know, we certainly weren't the editors in chief that had town cars and going out for lunches all the time, like, at all. We're, like, editing magazines from the dining table where I sit right now, you know, so we'd been lost in the work, busy doing the work. There was so much change. And. And I personally was like, okay, as Covid started to ebb, and I certainly didn't miss Covid, but I was sort of thinking, like, oh, I might want to do my own thing at some point. And so I had a bit of a head out the window there as well, just being like, I was starting to tire of some of the economy of magazines. I was really getting tired of who I refer to as, like, Brovalords controlling my mood, my day and my future. I was really getting done with that. So mentally, I was a little bit over here. But that said, did not in any way foresee that we were all gonna. Myself and my team would be laid off by Zoom on Zoom in February 2022, quite efficiently and with the script from the HR professional and all of us, which they referred to as the print team of InStyle, all getting laid off at once.
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A
How about for you, Christina? Was it the same sort of phenomenon?
- [07:58]
C
No, it's the opposite. I was one of one. I was at the time. I had been the editor in chief of the Wall Street Journal magazine for over a decade, for almost ten and a half years. There had been a regime change at the top of the newspaper. So there was a new Editor of the newspaper who was my boss. And I took the fact that I hadn't had a meeting with her in the sort of first three months of her tenure as a good sign. I thought it meant that I was just, I had put my head down. We continued to make a successful magazine. We were doing gangbusters digitally. Things were really like all of the things on paper. We, I think we had our best year in a couple of years since post Covid. This was 2023. And I took it to be like, oh, she's got bigger fish to fry. So when I finally had my first meeting with her, I really over prepared for it. I had presentations and PDFs and PowerPoints and I was ready to knock her socks off. And 10 minutes before the meeting, she changed the location from her office to the, the HR floor. So I knew, I knew going into the meeting that she was not going to be alone. And you don't have time to prepare for that. I went in, I still brought all the materials I was ready to show her. So I remember sort of sitting there holding my binders as she read her script and delivered the sort of fateful blow.
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A
So when I got fired, I came home and I sat down and I was talking to my husband, who you both know, and I said, well, you know, they still want me to stay on and freelance and write my column. So maybe I'm just. Maybe this isn't really like. Maybe this is just like a transition. And he was the one who said to me, no, you got first fired, you got fired. Like I wasn't using the word. But he was like, no, you are fired, you are done. You can write the column if you want, but you are done working there. And I didn't tell anybody for a really long time besides him. Right. I mean, I honestly think I just was like, well, maybe people won't notice because I'll still be in the magazine. And I was a diversion.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Why is it so hard for us to talk about this topic?
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C
Well, we don't have a lot of fired role models. You know, I think as women we haven't really grown up with a lot of leaders and women in kind of prominent positions who've been through it. Whereas we all know the tale of Steve Jobs getting fired and coming back. And we know Mike Bloomberg, you know, got fired from Salomon Brothers and Bloomberg wouldn't exist if he hadn't. We don't know that many women who have been through it. They're certainly not stories that we tell ourselves. Our daughters Our peers. So we hope to change that with the book right there. Right. Just to not kind of encourage the stigma and encourage the shame any longer. Like that has to end now.
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B
As ladies, we did not invent the workplace, men did. We just got the vote 100 years ago. All the corporate titles are military. Come from military, chief, chief, chief, you know, all of these things. So it took us longer to get to the point that for men was more of a given and we didn't re. We don't realize that and that we actually do carry that. And I think that it's like, you know, oh, I got. I got up to this. I got up to this rung and it took me actually so much longer and it was harder and I was paid less and all those sorts of things. So when you're knocked off it, the land is, the landing is rougher randomly. What I think the irony of so much of this is like these circumstances when you're, when you. I find you can't control that.
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A
Right.
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B
But this shame thing, you know, women all, all of our lives, we are, we are, we're working towards having agency and being able to choose and be able to do all of these things. What so many women do is choose shame.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And no one else cares.
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A
Yeah.
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C
They put it upon themselves.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And it's like you, that's not the ch. That's not the thing you should be choosing. There's a million other things we've earned the right to choose. But why you suddenly. And again, everyone else is busy. No one's paying attention to you yourself specific deal for, you know, forever. So don't bring that heavy heavyweight onto yourself when you're already being like hit on the head by an anvil by losing your job.
- [12:28]
A
You make the point that it really does not in all likelihood have anything to do with the job that you were doing at work.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And yet we don't feel that way. Right. I mean, I know I knew I got fired cause I had gone for the top job. I didn't get it. And the guy who got it was going to get rid of me. Right. I got that. But by the same token, I was looking at my performance and thinking about, but what could I have done differently? What if I had done another story? Why do we, why do we take it so personally?
- [13:06]
C
Well, it is personal. Right. How you, how you feel, no one can change that, but you can change the sort of lens that you see it all through. And when you're being fired, they don't say, oh, we're firing you because you make too much money, or we're firing you because that guy's going to fire you anyway. They don't tell you really the truth. They kind of create. So the workplace constructs a narrative that they're telling themselves about letting you go, and then you construct a narrative that you tell yourself. So I think if somewhere, somewhere along the line can show up and just kind of own it and be honest about it, it does set you on the path for whatever comes next. But it feels personal. I mean, even in Laura's situation, she's one of. How many people were you guys, 35 people at the same time getting fired? You're not looking around being like, oh, I'm one of 4,000 people being laid off from my company. You're still one of one person who's laying on the sofa feeling pretty shitty.
- [13:59]
B
But that said, in 2025, in this country, in this city, and in this roiling tech change and what the administration's doing, laying off agencies left, right and Senate, you are one of. Yeah, you are one of thousand seven. Even if you can't mentally get to the. Even to get to the super evolved state where you don't feel like it's. You look around, there's people fired everywhere. You have a whole community, but you won't know that until you say, it happened to me too. Like, you know, fortunately or unfortunately, people don't have the exclusive on being fired anymore. And so there is change everywhere. So take that and be like, okay, okay, well, this is groundswell of people losing their jobs around me. That means there's also a groundswell of support for me and a network from me and all of those things. And of course you're going to have the wind knocked out of yourselves. And of course you're going to immediately feel like, oh, shit, you know, all those things. But if you just take a beat and look around and sort of lift your hand up even to say hi or standing up, you're not going to get anywhere. No one's going to help you if you don't put your hand up.
- [15:01]
A
So, Laura, you were fired first. Christina got fired. What happened? How did you get in there and just say, you're going to be okay?
- [15:13]
B
Because I was. Christina was fired 14 months after me and her friends. And everyone laughed quite long and hard that they were kind of glad it was me first because I was like, up the up the road with the flashlight and I'm like, I'm still living and dare I say, I'm all right. So, but I think that, yeah, I obviously represented value to Christina because it had happened to me first and I hadn't had experience and I was like, can you get a lawyer and maybe phrase this this way? I don't feel like that. I don't feel bad. I don't. You know, all of those advice that you just have through lived experience. And when. So when it did happen to her, we did immediately band together because again, we're both very honest, straightforward people. We don't talk around things, we don't spin things, and we just, we really share that. So it was just a very sort of visceral, quick decision to do that post and to own it. And there wasn't. We didn't think about the best and worst case scenarios and think about what it meant for us. We were like, no, we were great at what we do. We got fired. We're arm in arm now and we've been. It sounds trite, but we've been each other's sort of biggest sounding board and inspiration through this entire process. Because you have someone that also happened to. And now the ladies that you know are in our book or talk to us, they have women they can talk to. There's women that exist in the book with them, there's women on the street with them. And if this ends up sort of opening up the kind of the force that the fire hose of women going, like, I had a lady, well known lady in my DMs today, go, actually, you know what? I was fired. I was fired from something. I'm just gonna tell you right now. We want that to happen by the thousands and thousands and thousands. And then suddenly we've got a club filled with cool girls who just own their future.
- [16:44]
A
And one of the ways that you all helped each other and that this book is helpful is that it is really specific and it's really tactical. I mean, I personally love that. The first chapter is titled your Money. That's what I would have called it. But honestly, like, when you're laid off, money is really the first thing that you think about and you lay out an excellent roadmap. So let's start there. The day you are fired, you talk about negotiating a severance package and not signing anything. Christina, talk about what do you do instead.
- [17:23]
C
Yeah. So, you know, in the moment, a lot of people who are in corporate jobs are pushed sort of a packet of paper and, you know, you're kind of given this like deadline and they want you to sort of like wrap it up immediately. Well, they want to wrap it up, right? Like you need to take the time to step away from the table, to step away from the zoom or whatever context that you've been let go in and really process the paperwork. You know, some people do reach out to lawyers, whether it's, you know, a sort of employment lawyer or legal aid or whatever type of counsel you need or want to seek, we recommend doing that. Or finding someone who can read legalese and kind of understand what you're being presented in terms of. LGBT can help. Yeah, yeah, it can. In terms of what to do in terms of negotiation, it doesn't always have to be about money, right? I mean, for some people, the health care might become the thing that they are most concerned about. Maybe they have preexisting conditions or they're in a, you know, going through something that they want to see through. So some people negotiate their health care, some people negotiate retraining benefits, right? Maybe they want to become an expert in AI. Maybe they can negotiate an opportunity to take a class or do some courses in a certain area of expertise. And some people negotiate to take equipment. Like I know people who are like, well, can I at least take my iPhone with me? Or whatever the company kind of software, hardware, whatever it is, if those are tools to, for you to do your job, all of those things can be put on the table and you're in that room, you're being told you are like no longer needed. Those things may not like pop into your head right in the moment. So that's the other reason why we really say step away, go home. Maybe you don't even look at it that day. Maybe you don't even look at it that day. Like just breathe. And then sort of, when you can see straight, dive into to that paperwork.
- [19:25]
B
And make like, make some asks. Because I mean, this sounds really true, but what are they going to do? They already fired you, right? You have zero to lose, you've lost your job. So ask for another month's severance, ask for the healthcare extension, ask for all of those sorts of things because all they can do is say no. But you will feel that you stood up a bit taller and you advocated for yourself, which is the first part of getting your power back.
- [19:49]
A
I like the tip about asking to get out of the non compete or have the non compete reduced. There's so much of this language that is just set up to put us in a box and you want to get rid of that as much as you can. Step two, look at your emergency funds. See where you are a Lot of people, unfortunately, don't have one have one, which makes it really important to get a grip on your spending and file for unemployment immediately. So how do you deal with those things exactly?
- [20:21]
B
I mean, you know, the company. We even made sure to do the disclaimer in the book. It's like, well, do you have the storied three months Runway? But don't forget if you don't, because guess what, if you don't have it, you're already feel terrible. You just got fired. You know, you're feeling like, oh, well, now I'm a big loser because I didn't have 12, 12 weeks of money. That's not helpful either. And so it's all these different tips, like, okay, number one, unemployment. You pay taxes to the government because. And you've earned the right to receive it. So get on that as soon as you can. And everything differs from state to state. Some pay more, some pay less. Check that out. If you need to take casual work, do that. You know, if you have a skill, if you can tutor, coach, work at Starbucks, do that. Great for your memoirs. You know, all of these, all of these different things you can put your hand up for if you need a loan from someone, if you have family, if, you know, there's all different. If you're partnered and you can go on your partner's healthcare. There's all of these different sort of spokes to the financial wheel that you can explore that aren't just like, oh, I don't have the savings, I'm screwed. There are all these incremental things that you can explore. And even something as simple as we were saying, like we, you know, we're like, actually, you know what? We are paying too much for cable. Let's call the cable company and say, if we can negotiate that down. And you on the bloody phone, on hold forever. But you know what? You saved the 15 bucks a month or whatever and you did something and you achieved something. And that again, just sort of arms you a little bit and makes you feel like you have some more. While you may not have all the money that you have some more control.
- [21:44]
A
The cable company is not the only one that will negotiate with you. The credit card company, if you are the, if you're the one who picks up the phone and you call your creditors, I think people don't understand that. That actually goes a very, very long way, right? If you wait for the creditor to come after you, that's not as good as picking up the phone saying, hey, I've got a situation here. There's so many furloughed people right now who need to be script that I've got a situation. I want to pay you, but I need a little bit of help. I need a little bit of a plan.
- [22:23]
B
Or I can take my business somewhere else and they want to keep your business, don't they? You know, I can take my, you know, I think it was Ron Libra and he basically said, okay, well I can. This, this arch rival of yours will offer me a lower interest rate. Maybe he'll go over there and they want to keep your business, don't they? And again, what's the harm in asking?
- [22:38]
A
Right? Right. No harm at all. We're going to take a very quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk about how to figure out what's next after a layoff, whether that's freelancing, starting a business, jumping back into a corporate role. Back in a sec. Hey everyone. Jean Chatsky with some very exciting news. The Hermoney Patreon is now live for the very first time. You'll be able to unlock bonus episodes ad free listening and even deeper dives into your questions all in one place. Here's the best part. We're giving you a seven day free trial so you can check it out risk free. That means you can be there for our very first Patreon bonus episode dropping on the 15th and see exactly what we've been working on behind the scenes. So if you've ever thought, I wish I could get more Hermoney, well, you can. Just head to patreon.com hermoney start your free trial and become one of our first subscribers. We can't wait to see you there. So you all know I don't rave about things unless I really mean it. And I have to say I finally tried the Fits Everyone collection from Skims. My daughter has been telling me about it for such a long time, but now I totally get the hype. I've always had issues with underwear. It's too tight, it's too bulky, it leaves lines under everything. I can't stand the lines. This is a game changer. The fabric is soft. I can't believe how comfortable it is. This is the kind of feel good upgrade that is small but seriously meaningful. We all deserve a few small upgrades in our lives. So if you haven't tried Skims yet, take this as your sign. The Fits Everybody collection lives up to the name. It really does fit and flatter everybody. Shop Skims. Fits everybody collection@skims.com. and after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows. We are back with Laura Brown and Christina o'. Neill. They are the authors of all the Cool Girls Get Fired. So after each of you got fired, and I love that you call it getting fired rather than being laid off, I just like, let's just say what it is, right?
- [24:59]
C
What it is.
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B
Come on, honey, you should not sugarcoat this.
- [25:03]
A
You each took a very, very different path after leaving the media world. I want to talk about that a little bit. Laura, you said after you were fired you never wanted a boss to control your day, your mood or your life ever again. So what has that meant in the aggregate?
- [25:22]
B
Wow, I'm hearing someone else say that. It feels so good. No, I was really, I think that, look, all of us in whatever industry we're in, we've been doing what we do for a good while, right? You know, I've been working in media for, Since I was 19, 32 years, you know, and during which time I've developed certain skills and worth and belief in myself that I was getting tired of all of that worth being sort of subject to the whims and the vacillations of my business. So for me, I knew, and not in a prepared spreadsheet way, I just kind of knew that I was not going to work for someone ever again. I registered my LB Media LLC on like legal zoom and my email and GoDaddy. So I was like, I've got a company and I put it all kind of in a drawer, you know, but it gave me insurance, it gave me an idea of insurance, whether or not I was going to activate that. So I think that, that when, you know, when I was eventually laid off, that sort of nestled in my head as a little bit of comfort because I kind of knew that the road I was going to take was sort of dependent on me and because I had an identity sort of outside my job as a little bit, you know what I mean? Like, I had, I had stuff going on that I knew hopefully if I could, if I needed to call on it, that it would, it would sort of call me back. And, and it has, it has in the, in the three or so years since, and I certainly have. And what I think has been the most thrilling for me is taking all of these skills and knowledge that I acquired in fashion magazines and applying them to vastly different spheres in the world that are more helpful. Global health or any of these sort of different things. It's like, oh, I can still do what I did, I can still love that. But it's got more purpose and more fulfillment. And I'm not just in this rote universe and I get to choose. Takes a minute though.
- [27:07]
A
Yeah, well, no, it totally takes a minute. I mean I went through that process of starting a company, naming it after my kids middle names because I didn't know what to call a company. But the guy on the phone said, well, what the, what's the name of your company? I was like, so there you go, Christina. On the flip side, you said you're a company girl, you love structure, you love strategy. Your favorite number is 401K. That honestly is my favorite quote from the whole book. So almost six months to the day of getting fired, you got hired to relaunch some Sotheby's magazine. Tell me about the six months in between and what was the process like for you as you decided where to go next?
- [27:48]
C
Yeah, I certainly explored a sort of self employed consultancy. I sort of fantasized about what Laura was doing. My partner is also a freelance creative. So I certainly, you know, heard enough from them like, oh this, you know, just, just do it for yourself. Da da da da. And after, I think I did like one or two freelance projects in those first months, the invoicing nearly did me under. Like I'm just not built to sort of like pitch for the project, chase the project, get the project, deliver the project, then chase for the money for the project. I just, I knew that wasn't me. But at the same time, obviously the media landscape had shifted so radically in the ten and a half years that I was at WSJ. You know, I do joke in the book that the kind of, you know, the traditional job that would probably be the next kind of expected pivot on my resume. You know, those jobs didn't exist or they weren't open, or they looked a lot different than they did when we were growing up. They were diminished or they were managing decline or whatever. So that there wasn't that kind of like, okay, well I'm going to just this happened and I'm going to go for that job. Like there wasn't that job either. So I took a lot of meetings, I had a lot of conversations. The opportunity that presented, that was presented to me to work at Sotheby's. Now if you told me two and a half years ago I would be working at the oldest auction house in the world, I would have told you you were crazy, like. But I think what was interesting to me about the opportunity was how transformed preferable my skill set was to this industry, to coming into an auction house. And that's one of the big lessons, right? It's like I had to open up my mind to sort of see that doing what I've sort of always done, but doing it for an industry and a. An archetype of a company that I'd never considered doing it for that that was even an option, you know. And the good thing is when you also have that time, you know, I did set up some other things. I'm on the board of a company, a fashion company in in that's based in Stockholm called Totem. And it's board work. I've never had an experience like that before. And you know, even writing this book and launching the sort of cool girls universe has been quite an entrepreneurial pursuit. So I work full. My job is full time. I am present and accounted for. But at the same time I'm able to carve out these other things that fill me up too.
- [30:19]
A
Can we talk about the transferable skills for a second? Because I grew up in media just like you, Laura, I was laughing when you said you were not a magazine editor when they had town cars driving you all over the place. I wasn't either. My husband was. He's in the Conde Nast book because he took the stupid town car to.
- [30:40]
B
His chiropractor, the mythical.
- [30:45]
A
Amazing, amazing when he was at gq. But I didn't have that. And I've watched as we all have the media business just flaking away and changing before our eyes. But we're not the only industry that's under fire in that way. I think so many people are looking at AI and thinking, oh my God, there goes my job, there goes my industry. What happens now? How do you, in a sort of macro way, think about what are my skills and how can I figure out where they might transfer? Laura, let me start with you.
- [31:23]
B
I think that, you know, for all of this, everything you've just said and all of the fear and change in everyone's business, from tech from to government to everything else. One thing to remember, and it's like a little silver lining in all of this kind of overwhelmed, is that work itself is no longer linear. The corner office need not be the goal anymore. We were brought up like that. You get up and up and up and you get this job because now with an answer for. It's interesting because media's bellwether in some ways about this. They say you have a legacy journalist who's been laid off from cnn, starts their own substack, starts their own podcast, starts whatever you can make board games and sell them on TikTok.
- [32:03]
A
You can.
- [32:04]
B
There's all of these different prongs to the workplace that didn't exist when we were coming up. And I think sometimes that's a challenge as well, is, oh, but I'm used to this and I'm associated with this and this is what I understand. And that's what like lean in was built around and why that was so successful at the time. And we sort of, sort of joke that we're a bit more lean out because there is a bigger horizon there for you on the professional landscape that you just have to kind of look at a little bit more closely and remind yourself. And again, look, I always say this life is not a vision board. You aren't just like, get fight, oh, vibes. What am I going to do now? It's not that easy. Easy. Most of the time you've got to pay your rent, you've got to feed your family, got to do all that kind of stuff. But one thing that it does give you is that. Beat that one bit, which we all have to think about, was that really making me happy? Did that make me feel less happy? Maybe I want to be happy more. Maybe I want to be creative more. And maybe the thing that is your dream when you're a kid, maybe you can't necessarily jump to do that because you've got all these responsibilities, but maybe you can allow your mind to follow that a little bit more and be like, okay, what makes me distinctive? Or oftentimes people are good at their jobs because that's their DNA and their passion and their enthusiasm. And sometimes we get so wed to our jobs for so long, we might not even love them that much really, but we're used to it. Necessity is 95% of all everything you know, that happens when you lose your job. But keep 5% of your brain onto the where would I like to go if I could and steer your little boat there. And I think you'll be surprised if you give that some voice where that might be able to lead you.
- [33:41]
A
Christina, there's a new report out that talks about how one of the significant challenges that women our age, my age, are facing after being laid off is the difficulty in relocating to areas with job opportunities. They don't want to leave their communities, they don't want to give up homes they love. And we're in this environment where return to work if they. It's not a thing everywhere. It's definitely a thing. So how do you navigate this? Do I have to show up or not? Kind of a market?
- [34:16]
C
Yeah, that's a good question. I haven't read that study, but I certainly. When I was in that sort of six month in between time, I wrote everything down that I loved about my job and everything that I didn't and everything that I wanted to see kind of, you know, happen in. In whatever came next and everything that I didn't. And you know, I think identifying like, are you an. An IRL person or are you better off in a. In a sort of, you know, a lot of people like working from home. I think they find the commute to be a drag. They prefer the sort of like autonomy that comes from kind of creating your own working environment as opposed to the sort of felted cubicle walls that a lot of people find themselves in. So I think those are for better or for worse. When you do have a setback, if there's an industry that you want to work in and you are more inclined to be successful in person, then it is probably worth sort of putting it on your pro and con list.
- [35:20]
A
Cut to a year. Since writing this book, you all are starting a movement. I mean, the Cool Girl Network is. It's a thing. Talk to me about that. Can I be a cool girl? Like, how does that, how does that happen?
- [35:35]
C
She Cool girl.
- [35:36]
B
Chatsky, you were born a cool girl.
- [35:39]
A
I was so not born a cool girl.
- [35:40]
B
How. Trust me, with your command of your business, that is one of the coolest things there is. I think that, number one, the fact that you said it was a movement is just music to our ears. Because I think what we felt and feel is we knew that from when we posted on Instagram, all the cool girls get fired. We knew from the women who showed up in the comments and said, oh, actually me. Or we knew there was a groundswell of something. And as over the two years that we've been writing this book, the amount of women who've written US emails, DMs, you know, sharing with us things they've never said. Like when you said you didn't actually say you were fired, women writing to us and going, actually, this is kind of the first time I've said so I was fired and sort of unburdening themselves. I've had women on the street. Some a gal came up to me yesterday saying, I just got fired three days ago. Oh my God, I Ran into you. Oh, my God, am I cool? And so just all of those signs in the universe coming at us because we do feel like we. We want to revolutionize this narrative, but, you know, when it's. We don't want women who had to work. So, like we were saying so much harder to get this far to feel like this ever again. We want to. If we're the, you know, we're the canaries in the coal mine, we're the bel. Weather's going, actually, we're going to crack open this psychological door for everyone else to walk through, and we're going to give you a road map to walk through it literally.
- [36:58]
A
And then.
- [36:58]
B
So we want. We joke in the, in the final part of the book. Like, we want people to say, after reading this book, I want to get fired.
- [37:05]
A
It's.
- [37:06]
B
It's silly, but it's like changing this narrative and owning everything that happens to us and owning our own lore and our own experience, and that opens up such a wider world for you and a more fulfilling life, personally and professionally.
- [37:19]
A
Christina, what's the hope?
- [37:21]
C
Well, everyone should have a fired friend. And, you know, I was lucky to have Laura. I read this morning that Jimmy Fallon has been checking in on Stephen Colbert, and they have a little text thread of the sort of checking in on your friend who's been fired. And it was just such a, like, heartwarming reminder that there are simple things that you can do when this happens to you, but also when it happens to someone you know and show up for people and be there. And you might not have all the answers. You might just have to be able to simply say, it's going to be okay, but reach out to people. And those are the people who will kind of spring around you and help move you along and people that fill you up.
- [38:04]
B
And even if it means filling up your wine glass, always, always filling up your wine glass. In our case, at least.
- [38:12]
A
If you're looking for a community and you want to connect with Laura and Christina, the way to do it is to bookmark all the cool girlsgetfired.com follow all the cool girls, get fired on Instagram and tick tock. That's the way you'll stay updated. Thank you guys so much for writing the book. It's so really important.
- [38:34]
B
It means the world coming from you. You know, we're all in the club and may the. May the club keep growing.
- [38:39]
A
Absolutely. We'll be right.
- [38:40]
B
Thank you, Jane.
- [38:41]
C
Thank you.
- [38:44]
A
If you love today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast. Your feedback means the world to me and if you're ready to keep the money conversation going, Her Money has three amazing programs designed to help you feel more confident and in control of your money. There's Finance Fix. It's our four week coaching program that helps you rethink your spending, find hidden savings and make smarter choices for the future. Our Pre Retirement program runs for six weeks and walks you through building a retirement strategy that's personalized for your next chapter. Finally, there's Investing Fix, our investing club for women. It meets every other week on Zoom. It is a supportive space to learn, ask questions, grow your investing confidence and build your portfolio. And your first month is absolutely free. These programs are truly helping level the playing field for women financially. I'd love for you to join us. Her Money is produced by Haley Pascalides and our music is provided by Video Helper. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk soon.
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B
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B
We say that may have been too much feeling.
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C
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A
Savings.
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B
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