HerMoney with Jean Chatzky: EP 497
"All the Cool Girls Get Fired: Reinventing Your Career After 40"
Guests: Laura Brown & Christina O’Neill
Date: October 15, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode delves into the realities and emotional complexities of being fired or laid off—especially for women over 40—and how to turn a career setback into an opportunity for reinvention. Jean Chatzky welcomes Laura Brown (former editor-in-chief, InStyle) and Christina O’Neill (former editor-in-chief, WSJ Magazine), who share their personal experiences of being fired, challenge the stigma around it, and discuss practical strategies from their book, All the Cool Girls Get Fired. The conversation is candid, supportive, and filled with tactical advice on navigating the aftermath—both emotionally and financially.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Challenging the Stigma of Being Fired
- Not About Performance: Layoffs aren’t necessarily about personal failure, but often reflect shifting industries.
- Quote [05:15]: “These days, you probably didn’t get fired because you suck at your job. You likely got fired because your industry is changing. Morphing and mutating like one of those AI videos where people have weird hands.” —Jean Chatzky
- Shame and Silence: Women tend to hide their layoffs due to shame and lack of visible female role models who’ve been fired and bounced back.
- Quote [10:29]: “We don't have a lot of fired role models...We all know the tale of Steve Jobs getting fired and coming back...we don't know that many women who have been through it.” —Christina O’Neill
2. The Power of Community and Openness
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Mutual Support: Laura and Christina bonded and supported each other after being let go, advocating for openness about job loss.
- Quote [15:12]: “We did immediately band together because again, we're both very honest, straightforward people...We've been each other's sort of biggest sounding board and inspiration.” —Laura Brown
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Starting a Movement: Their book and Instagram post sparked a network of women sharing their own stories of being fired.
- Quote [36:57]: “We want to revolutionize this narrative...If we're the canaries in the coal mine, we're going to crack open this psychological door for everyone else.” —Laura Brown
3. Immediate Financial Next Steps After Being Fired
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Don’t Rush Severance Agreements: Take time before signing anything; consult a lawyer or knowledgeable friend.
- Quote [17:22]: “You need to take the time to step away from the table...and really process the paperwork.” —Christina O’Neill
- Quote [19:24]: “Make some asks...You have zero to lose, you've lost your job. So ask for another month's severance, ask for the healthcare extension...” —Laura Brown
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Negotiate More Than Money: Consider health insurance, retraining funds, equipment, and especially reducing or removing non-compete clauses.
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Assess Emergency Funds & Apply for Unemployment: Don’t feel shame if emergency funds are lacking—take pragmatic steps and seek support systems.
- Quote [20:21]: “Don’t forget if you don’t [have savings], because guess what, if you don’t have it, you already feel terrible...There are all these incremental things.” —Laura Brown
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Call Creditors and Service Providers: Don’t wait for trouble; reach out proactively to request payment plans or reductions.
- Quote [21:44]: “If you are the one who picks up the phone and you call your creditors, I think people don't understand...That actually goes a very, very long way.” —Jean Chatzky
4. Reinventing Your Career: Two Journeys After Media
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Laura Brown: Entrepreneurial Path
- “I was not going to work for someone ever again.” —[25:21]
- Established her own LLC and shifted her magazine skillset to broader, more purposeful projects.
- Emphasizes applying “distinctive skills” in new arenas and finding fulfillment beyond old professional silos.
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Christina O’Neill: Returning to Corporate with New Perspective
- “My favorite number is 401k” —Jean’s favorite quote from the book [27:48]
- Realized independent consultancy wasn’t a fit and returned to a structured environment (Sotheby’s), but with enriched board work and writing ventures on the side.
- Advice: Reimagine where your skills fit—sometimes outside your expected industry.
5. Recognizing Transferable Skills
- Broader Application of Experience: Media isn’t the only “declining” industry—many need to rethink skills in the expanding gig and tech economy.
- Quote [31:23]: “Work itself is no longer linear. The corner office need not be the goal anymore...There are all these different prongs to the workplace that didn’t exist.” —Laura Brown
- Reflecting on What You Love and Need: Write down what you enjoyed (or didn’t) and use that to inform your next steps.
- Quote [34:16]: “I wrote everything down that I loved about my job and everything that I didn’t and everything that I wanted to see...” —Christina O’Neill
6. Navigating Remote vs. Onsite Opportunities
- Discuss the reality that many women hesitate to relocate for jobs and value flexibility post-layoff.
- Identify what kind of work environment makes you thrive before searching for your next opportunity.
7. “All the Cool Girls Get Fired” – From Book to Community
- Their “Cool Girl” movement is about normalizing career disruption and empowering women to own their stories.
- Quote [37:05]: “We want people to say, after reading this book, I want to get fired. It's silly, but it's like...owning our own lore and our own experience opens up such a wider world for you.” —Laura Brown
- Community Resources: Listeners are encouraged to join the conversation and connect via allthecoolgirlsgetfired.com, Instagram, and TikTok.
8. Support Others: The Value of a "Fired Friend"
- Quote [38:04]: “Everyone should have a fired friend...You might not have all the answers. You might just have to simply say, it’s going to be okay, but reach out to people.” —Christina O’Neill
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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“As ladies, we did not invent the workplace, men did...so when you're knocked off it, the landing is rougher.”
—Laura Brown [11:08] -
“That’s not the thing you should be choosing. There’s a million other things we’ve earned the right to choose. But why you suddenly...choose shame?”
—Laura Brown [12:06] -
“Even if you can’t mentally get to the super evolved state...there’s people fired everywhere. You have a whole community, but you won’t know that until you say, it happened to me too.”
—Laura Brown [13:59] -
“Necessity is 95% of everything that happens when you lose your job. But keep 5% of your brain onto where would I like to go if I could...”
—Laura Brown [33:40] -
“We want to revolutionize this narrative...owning everything that happens to us and owning our own lore and our own experience.”
—Laura Brown [37:05] -
“Everyone should have a fired friend...show up for people and be there.”
—Christina O’Neill [38:04]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [05:15] – Jean shares her own firing story and the stigma around it
- [06:21] – Laura and Christina share their firing experiences
- [10:29] – Why it's hard to talk about being fired; lack of female fired role models
- [15:12] – The power of community and being a “fired friend”
- [17:22] – What to do immediately after being fired: legal and financial advice
- [20:21] – Tackling emergency funds, unemployment, and negotiating expenses
- [25:21] – Laura’s entrepreneurial pivot
- [27:48] – Christina’s return to corporate with new boundaries
- [31:23] – Transferable skills & reframing success
- [34:16] – Adapting to return-to-work culture, remote vs. onsite work
- [35:20] – “Cool Girl” movement and how to join
- [38:04] – The importance of support and friendship through transition
Final Thoughts
This episode serves as both a practical guide and an emotional pep talk for anyone navigating job loss, especially mid-career women. It highlights the importance of transparency, mutual support, and the courage to redefine one’s value outside of traditional corporate ladders. With humor and unflinching honesty, Laura and Christina invite listeners to see being fired not as a failure, but as an inevitable—and potentially liberating—pivot point.
Connect and join the movement: